NationStates Jolt Archive

Today in the Pacific was noticed an influx of new UN nations. All UN nations were very young, mostly 6-8 million in population. Obviously in the midst of an invasion, we kept our eyes open to see what was going on.

At 3:56am EST (minutes before the UN update), five nations (probably more, but I caught five with my own eyes) were snuck into the Pacific in a haze of regional happenings spam. These five nations, Coquitlame, Secundus Gemini, Rockinghamton, Robinson Bay, and Marvin Alexander moved into the region one by one in a span of two minutes while the nation of Crazy Kitty spammed the regional happenings by rapidly moving to and from other regions. These five nations came into the Pacific carrying 107 endorsements each.

Evidently what had happened is that those 107 endorsers were puppets who were endorsing these five in a different region earlier today. The 107 puppets were moved into the Pacific throughout the day, jumping from their original region through other regions in order to lessen suspicion. The plan of theirs was to have these five nations which had been endorsed by the puppets in a different region move into the Pacific right before the update so they would be carrying the same endorsements they had in the original region, which is exactly what happened. (had the nations not been removed in time, one of them would have successfully taken the delegacy, which obviously was their plan)

Either this is a coordinated invasion with cunning and sophistication the likes of which NationStates has never seen before, or this is the work of the most brazen and prolific UN multyer the game has ever seen. I'm inclined to believe the latter. Not only were those 107 enorser nations similar in populations, but astoundingly (and curiously), 90% of them had answered a single issue, and that one issue they did answer was the "Should Voting be Compuslory?" issue.

The endorser list of one of those five nations is as follows:

Endorsements Received: 107 (Enterprise Corrupted, Tremeear, Milan i Lombardy, Random Settings, Carolo, Sudraten, Point du Banbury, Nicht Weidere, Stampede, Tetinshini, Western Green, Chic Budokan, Glass Tops, Mortimer State, Rhonda Place, Nolan Rock, Major Sanskrit, Q Temporal, Maria Dunn, Great Opportunities, Idleback, Saol, Drummondville, Sparta City, Holly Dunn Fan, Tarentorus, Osoyoos, Tellus Prime, Michipicoten, Londesborough, Chapleau, Poplar, Pruszkow, Horsey Mead, Moulin Drop, Sesekinika, Skaha Beach, Quicke, Leeburn, Dufferin Grey, Spirited Folly, Temagami, Kellmore, Paradise Blue, Eugenia Lake, Holsteinkirk, McCrook, Watt and Fuerst, Kryia, Oh Oh Doh, Tunold, Spencer Island, Falbridge, Maguire Lake, Revel, Korah, Men Of Youth, Raeb, Lawful Excuse, Mattice, Rocklyn, Maki Tina, Moneta, Ogidaki, McKeller, Wallace Terrace, Neebing, Windsor House, Wabos, Schumacher, Desbarats, Dunchurch, Steel Toes, Achigan, Meaford, Wharncliffe, Bigwood, The Profit Takers, Pukaskwa, Providence Bay, Stonecliffe, Matheson Roads, WillyTy, South Baymouth, Baton Lea, Sturmgewehren, New Westminister, Spratly, Thelon Coast, Bryers, Taku, Utta, Norm Williams, Dan Murphy, Myren, Deux Pelletees, Peterson Folly, Pawatting, Timiskaming, Dutchman Clipper, Dirty Harry Eastwood, Vidal Bay, Fathom Five, Eton, Smale, Hanagev, Oliver Fairview)

I am saddened that those who have been working to legitimately depose the current Pacific government would resort to such shameless, underhanded, dirty, and unconscionable malfeasance, and I sincerely hope that the most severe actions will be taken against the player or small group of players responsible for it.

Evidence of Crazy Kitty's spamming can still be found in Pacific Army's regional happenings. There are also a few telling comments on their Civil HQ.

After running a few of those nations through the rigorous "Neutered Sputniks' is nation-x a UN Multi check," I have to say that it would appear to be legal...

Note, I will indeed run all the names. However, for the time being, it would appear that it was indeed a well planned invasion attempt.

too bad it didn't work :(

I must say I'm astonished if this is indeed the case. If it is any further indication, those 100+ nations are now moving out of the RR one by one to other regions.

Good thing they failed, I'd hate to see those "Griefing!" whiners who get booted out of the pacific have their way.

Ok, so maybe I missed something...gimme a little more time, and if I'm right, I might just take the #1 spot for multi killer...

Ok, so maybe I missed something...gimme a little more time, and if I'm right, I might just take the #1 spot for multi killer...

Go Neut!

Yeah, Francos, looks like you were right...I'm in the process of removing the cheating scum from our community. Thanks for the heads up.

Wow, what a task that must be. Thank you for looking into this and taking care of it. Hopefully this sets some kind of record for you :D

If it is open for public declaration, could it be announced who the puppet master was? I have my suspicions personally (actually I'm nigh on certain). (though I'll refrain from naming said nation, anybody is free to view the practical confession which is currently on Pacific Army's civil HQ)

what confession?

52 minutes ago The Confederacy of Dog Lake Looks like I had just gained another 125 countries. :(

(...)

50 minutes ago The Confederacy of Dog Lake And to think, I was not going to boot them either. Oh well. Next time, they won't be so lucky.

So much for not saying the name. Anyway, Dog Lake (whose primary nation is Bleasdale) has always been a grand puppeteer, which was legal until s/he brought so many into the UN. Several weeks prior to today's incident, the player moved 60 puppets into the Pacific in a single day. A member of our region noticed that a huge number of nations poured into the region from the same place. When checking that region, 60 nations appeared on the UN breakdown, yet it read "population: 0; an empty wasteland devoid of nations." When one clicked on any given nation in the region's UN breakdown, that nation was in the Pacific. (Dog Lake was the founder of this region; it was common for the player to move all of his/her puppets from one region to another [all founded by Dog Lake] in a single day [indeed I tracked him/her doing this several times] until s/he finally put them in the Pacific. Note that the nations were not griefing, cheating, spamming, or otherwise breaking any rules, but I just state the proclivity for puppets for the record.)

i thought you meant that..
well, as she said, she would GAIN more nations, so she doesn't have them yet.

as for saying not booting you, we had a little poll on our off site forum, and we voted about what to do with you when we would get back in the pacific.
she voted we let you stay, but keep an eye on you.

Sorry if my wording there is confusing. I've been forced to stay up later than usual because of these recent events and I'm starting to get a little hazy.

And wow, N. Sputniks is still going. Maybe there were more UN nations than those sent in to the Pacific. I see that Kandarin has lost a huge number of endorsements in the last hour.

well, why don't you just go to bed? i'll keep an eye on the pacific for ya ;)

Yeah, so that entire list was one players...so...I think I've got top honors on single player multies deleted...especially since I'm not done yet (gotta check the IP's for more, and I've dealt with this player before...)

Havin run the IP scans, I found there to be exactly 125 multies...

Good work Neut. Takes me back to the National Socialists days...actually, maybe I don't want to remember them :lol:

125, wow. Well, at least it's a nice round number :)

But eep:

10 minutes ago The Confederacy of Dog Lake Oh well. Time to start over again. Maybe I'll create a new Bleasdale.

Would a more permanent means of keeping this nation out be available?

Edit:

23 minutes ago: The Confederacy of Dog Lake applied to join the UN.

Sheesh. The player is also now moving its survivors into Pacific Army.

What? Nobody here knows how to run a legal invasion?

/me puts hands to head; gently rubs temples.

125....

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

tried that, got kicked out..
(no, i'm not saying that having un multi's is a good thing)

o well, i'm not going to give up..
someday, we'll get back in the pacific..
on a legal way ;)

What? Nobody here knows how to run a legal invasion?

/me puts hands to head; gently rubs temples.

125....

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

We do, but everyone wants to be General, and nobody wants to be soldier. The timezones are making things difficult, and we are not very cohesive anymore. The majority of players are partly bored, and only log in every few day to do issues.
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CorinThe
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i'm cool with being soldier, i hate being general anyway ;)
just have a big mouth sometimes, and a will of my own..

mmm, guess i wouldn't make the perfect soldier ;)

All I can say is, wow. Much as I dislike the dictatorial nature of Franco's rule, I must conceed that that is no way to conduct regime change. I have seen some very well-organised invasions/counter-invasions in my time, but 25-30 UN nations per side was the absolute maximum. 125, there is no-one in all of NS who can command that large an army. He was right to be suspicious. Any operation that big . . .

EDIT: Regarding soldiers/Generals, I was always more of a military consultant. And now, perhaps a Major to a real General, which suits me fine . . . 8)

are you saying you think it is impossible to overthrow francos spain?
cause we would need an army that big to do it..

In order to remove Franco's Spain, he would have to unite a lot of the major regions in contempt for him. Which, given the fact that few outside the Pacifics care much about the politics there, is unlikely to happen any time soon. Most outsiders prefer to observe and not get personally involved.

The best chance lies with a successful coup/revolution, but we have seen what happens to the organisers, or another Pacific invading. Again, there would have to be a great deal of consensus. That level of unity and organisation may be unachievable.

are you saying you think it is impossible to overthrow francos spain?
cause we would need an army that big to do it..

Many players are gathering soldiers, but forget the real goal. After a while the start having their own agendas. An army of 125 legal soldier is impossible to command for one player. As soon as you gather many armies you'll find out that every General has his own aganda and only wants power in his own region. That is my experience as -=AA=-. I had about 5 Generals, at a certain moment, and no soldiers :lol:
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CorinThe
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Many players are gathering soldiers, but forget the real goal. After a while the start having their own agendas. An army of 125 legal soldier is impossible to command for one player.
That's a big problem, you start building up an army, and when you are just getting there, they get restless or complacent and become either less active, or demand that you do something. Planning something weeks ahead, knowing that something may occur a couple of weeks down the line to upset things, that makes it a very hard thing to sell to people. And you have the added problem of allies who decide to do their own thing in the meantime, and end up divided by the time they are meant to be ready. Sigh. Never mind 125, it is difficult enough with a couple of dozen.

Many players are gathering soldiers, but forget the real goal. After a while the start having their own agendas. An army of 125 legal soldier is impossible to command for one player.
That's a big problem, you start building up an army, and when you are just getting there, they get restless or complacent and become either less active, or demand that you do something. Planning something weeks ahead, knowing that something may occur a couple of weeks down the line to upset things, that makes it a very hard thing to sell to people. And you have the added problem of allies who decide to do their own thing in the meantime, and end up divided by the time they are meant to be ready. Sigh. Never mind 125, it is difficult enough with a couple of dozen.

And when they become restless, they start bugging the enemy, and end up in the RR, having to re-aply for UN membership. That is all very demoralizing. An invasion that large takes time, luck and allot of people with no lives or living in the same timezone.
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CorinThe
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An invasion that large takes time, luck and allot of people with no lives or living in the same timezone.
Yep. Which is why I, and many others, view the Pacifics as a special case, their internal politics being impossible to influence from the outside. Any solution to their internal problems will have to come from inside. Further invasions will prove futile, and may actually strengthen the hand of the incumbent.

so, are you telling me...
i'll never get back in the pacific with my friends? :(

Not by means of a frontal assault.

I think the best way to go about things may be to present yourself as a moderate alternative. Playing the political game honestly gets results just as well, and if successful, is often a more sustainable solution in the longer term. If you were to seize control by military means, you would most likely end up attempting to retain power amidst a sea of discontent using the same oppressive methods that you dislike in Franco.

playing the political game...how?
sorry, i'm a little slow today ;)

and i wouldn't want to become like francos, ever..

so, are you telling me...
i'll never get back in the pacific with my friends? :(

The problem with your people is, that you keep on spamming and threatening with invasions. That way the game stays exiting for the oposition. If you just gave it a rest, you could just as easy bore them to death, if you just moved on with your lives. Maybe one day, out of the blue, you could invade the place, but not right now with him watching all of you all the time.
My advise is: Bore him to death :wink:
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CorinThe
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that could take ages, corinthe..

and in the meantime, they're killing the pacific, have you seen how quiet and dead that place is?
and how low the population? there used to be 5000 nation in there..

are you saying you think it is impossible to overthrow francos spain?
cause we would need an army that big to do it..

Back when Francos had 180 endorsements it was as good as impossible. Now he's at 100, and if you look at the time it took to endorsement-swap back into having that many, it should be clear anything happening 'internally' in The Pacific to overthrow Francos will not happen. There's no politicking going on to take advantage of one way or the other that is fast enough to get to 100 endorsements unnoticed.

This leaves a straightforward invasion force. While 180 is absurd in this game, 100 is extremely hard but not entirely impossible. This does require clear leadership and planning, as well as closely working together with other leaders. The Pacific Army has shown little to none of that (IMHO), so I suggest getting used to having one of the troika in charge in The Pacific.

For the record, the situation in most of the other feeder regions is actually worse. For instance, 1 Infinite Loop has built up a truly huge amount of endorsements, and has shown the willingness to boot anyone getting relatively close. However, he's done it in a way that doesn't get too many people upset, causing much less uproar. The end result is the same though: a complete lock on the delegacy for as long as desired. There's really nothing in the game that can stand up to that advantage.

I've tried to argue this before, and it is clear the game operator has no desire to reduce that advantage to more realistic proportions. So, we'll just have to accept the situation as it is.

Ballotonia

that could take ages, corinthe..

and in the meantime, they're killing the pacific, have you seen how quiet and dead that place is?
and how low the population? there used to be 5000 nation in there..

Ages yes, but you are not making it easier on yourself.
I hope that one day my Pacific becomes a good alternative for all the non-founder Pacifics, if only I wasn't so lazy. I really like to help you, but I can't. :cry:
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CorinThe
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If the Pacific is declining, then that is good for you. Don't do anything to cause excitement, anything that may cause people to rally around their leader. You might even consider encouraging a boycott, on the grounds that the situation there is undemocratic. Tell the newer nations that there are other places they can go.

As for playing the political game, how you do it is up to you. If you want power, try the subtle approach, don't try smashing down the front door. Taking steps to starve him of support without sending telegrams telling people that he is a b*stard is a good first step. Remember: present people with alternatives.

OK, everybody stay calm, this thread has been hijacked by the officers of NS World! :lol:

EDIT: Still, plenty of good advice here for anyone thinking of trying something. ;)

125? I only guessed that there was that many, but thanks for the confirmation. As was noted, getting 125 individuals to do what I was accused of doing, and thanks Neut for blaming only me, it only adds to my reputation. Being on a LAN really does bug you guys.

Since the executions of my countries did not stop at those involved, it is my guess that Neut is only guessing which were mine, as I saw a number that were deleted that were not my puppets.

I do have a question, how long do I have to let a confirmation sit before it expires? It seems that as long as you don't delete the message to the country, the email is still good to go.

As for mounting a legal invasion of the size we are talking about, it is nearly impossible. If my plan, which was not sanctioned by the PA, had worked, none of this would really matter. The initial plan was not to ban the troika, but I imagine those plans are now changed. As far as I am concerned, they better get to know Kandarin real well.

We tried for a month or so to get an invasion going, and out of desperation I took this initiative on. As Neut stated, he's run into me before. Nothing like this, and it took some effort on both our parts. Good for you that my security system was not up to par. I doubt any credible invasion will work, ever, on a scale this size.

Our main problem is, we don't know who we can trust, and that many individuals, security is our main concern. How can you tell someone to endorse a country, or a list of nations, when you cannot tell them who to endorse. I know this is a poor excuse for what I was perported to have done, and I would have liked to have had a few of my friend's countries that were deleted, after the invasion. Some, I did think had stupid names, and would have let these die. Moot now.

I still believe my idea was the best. Easy, fast and open. But my generals had other ideas and now nothing happend :twisted:
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CorinThe
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I know what you mean.

It seems they do not process the UN membership right away, so all you need to do is delete your email address from your country if you decide to not join the UN.

I have my reasons to be in the UN. If I resign, I loose credability and my own awesome admin and moderating powers :P I have a forum where only UN members are allowed :wink:
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CorinThe
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lol, beware of corinthe, the admin/mod! ;)

Since the executions of my countries did not stop at those involved, it is my guess that Neut is only guessing which were mine, as I saw a number that were deleted that were not my puppets.

If I am reading this correctly you created multi-UN nations to try to take over the pacific.

This attitude never ceases to amaze me. It's ok for you to break the rules that you agreed to play under because you don't like the way the game is going for you. Further you are breaking the rules to invade someone who has made every effort to stay within the rules of the game.
I've seen this before, because there is a dictator out there that people don't like somehow that make breaking the rules ok.

For what it's worth, last time I saw someone do this and gloat about it they had created 3 UN nations. After the 3 UN nations were deleted their main UN nation was deleted becuase they were gloating that they didn't care about their puppets. Just saying is all......

Yeah, Francos, looks like you were right...I'm in the process of removing the cheating scum from our community. Thanks for the heads up.

Disgraceful that they would cheat in order to attempt to take the region. I have been giving a little help to those attempting to take the region, more philosophy of invading rather then anything else. But, if they finally have their big invasion and they cheat to take it, then I don’t think they in anyway deserve the region. This goes to heart that their claim that Francos ruins the game was more a case of bitterness then honest proclamation. If they really cared about not ruining the game they never would have crossed the game to cheating. This is very disappointing, I am at least comforted that these players will no longer be able to join the UN.

Havin run the IP scans, I found there to be exactly 125 multies...

Wow.

I know we talked about CC for NS2 helping to void this type of issue, wish there was something we could do in here to make it harder to multi.


What? Nobody here knows how to run a legal invasion?

/me puts hands to head; gently rubs temples.

125....

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

Exactly. This is so lazy. They probably had enough people to pull it off anyway. Even if they didn’t, not like they couldn’t recruit more.

What? Nobody here knows how to run a legal invasion?

/me puts hands to head; gently rubs temples.

125....

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

We do, but everyone wants to be General, and nobody wants to be soldier. The timezones are making things difficult, and we are not very cohesive anymore. The majority of players are partly bored, and only log in every few day to do issues.
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CorinThe
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif
The Central Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=the_central_pacific) (for The Pacific alternative.)

One problem with waiting so long between invasion attempts…..

I am sure you have a lot of gung ho gunghoers that are hard to control (and I imagine you didn’t know about the cheater?), it is a matter of coming up with a good management system though.

Lets not forget that you guys began this invasion a couple of hours after update time… you guys were pretty much doomed to fail no matter what with that type of planning.


In order to remove Franco's Spain, he would have to unite a lot of the major regions in contempt for him. Which, given the fact that few outside the Pacifics care much about the politics there, is unlikely to happen any time soon. Most outsiders prefer to observe and not get personally involved.

They’ve asked some to help them, but not everyone, not by a long shot. And as I can see, they are not super co-ordinated with those other regions who have already pledged support.

that could take ages, corinthe..

and in the meantime, they're killing the pacific, have you seen how quiet and dead that place is?
and how low the population? there used to be 5000 nation in there..

The region is not dead, new nations pour into there daily. I understand it is not quite to where you left it, but if it is important to you wouldn’t it be worth the time to get it back? If not, find another region and move on I suggest. This is a feeder region, you are encouraged to explore the wide world and see what else it holds.

Blah Blah Blah.

Sorry, if you are guilty of cheating, that is all I hear. I didn't hear you profess your guilt, so I will give you a little leeway since I have talked to you before. But if you did cheat, I don't care about any justification and neither should anyone else. It is lazy and inexcusable.


Since the executions of my countries did not stop at those involved, it is my guess that Neut is only guessing which were mine, as I saw a number that were deleted that were not my puppets.

If I am reading this correctly you created multi-UN nations to try to take over the pacific.

This attitude never ceases to amaze me. It's ok for you to break the rules that you agreed to play under because you don't like the way the game is going for you. Further you are breaking the rules to invade someone who has made every effort to stay within the rules of the game.
I've seen this before, because there is a dictator out there that people don't like somehow that make breaking the rules ok.


If this is what Dog is admitting, I am equally disturbed by this selfish level of thinking.

i know it will take time, and i'm not giving up..
but you see, i like the feeder regions, because of the new nations pouring in..
that's why i now have a puppet in the south pacific, but i'm not letting go of the pacific...

someday, we'll get back in, and it'll be one big party, everyone will be invited ;)

and ackbar....why are your posts always so long? ;)

/me points to this post.

125? I only guessed that there was that many, but thanks for the confirmation. As was noted, getting 125 individuals to do what I was accused of doing, and thanks Neut for blaming only me, it only adds to my reputation. Being on a LAN really does bug you guys.

Some people seem to be missing this. If I understand this correctly, Dog Lake claims that it was 125 different people working on a Local Area Network.

Do I have this right?

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

How likely is that? I am at a technical university and could get maybe half that number online even out of hours. And the academic institution extension would be as obvious as you say, right? So are we to believe 125 people were using a private/corporate network for the invasion? If this is the case, why did Dog Lake not make a fuss about it?

How likely is that? I am at a technical university and could get maybe half that number online even out of hours. And the academic institution extension would be as obvious as you say, right? So are we to believe 125 people were using a private/corporate network for the invasion? If this is the case, why did Dog Lake not make a fuss about it?

Yeah, I find that a little hard to swallow. Good call TG. 8)

Stephanie
Forum Mod

How likely is that? I am at a technical university and could get maybe half that number online even out of hours. And the academic institution extension would be as obvious as you say, right? So are we to believe 125 people were using a private/corporate network for the invasion? If this is the case, why did Dog Lake not make a fuss about it?

I'll let Dog Lake answer that.

Notice that I'm only pointing out what Dog Lake appears to be claiming. I am not arguing for or against the veracity of the interpretation of DL's statement.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Being the Mod that deleted all the puppets...lets just say that a LAN with 125 different people does NOT have a single IP address that resolves to a high speed cable line...

Being the Mod that deleted all the puppets...lets just say that a LAN with 125 different people does NOT have a single IP address that resolves to a high speed cable line...Do you mean a LAN of that size, or a LAN in general?

A LAN of that size would require it's own server, and most likely, would not be connected to an ISP through a single cable modem line...

A cable IP address would mean that this is a home LAN...know any home based LANs with 125 people?

Nope :shock: I have one with 3 computers which leaves 122 to be filled...I think the connection would be pretty damn slow with 125 ppl on a single cable line.

As for the other topic,it would take a pretty massive assault to overthrow a Pacific Delegate,there is no single orginization large enough to overthrow it,and the larger ones are at large enemies with one another so uniting them would be hard,theoretically an invasion is possible but would be very difficult to implement.At this point though a coup would have to go unnoticed by the current delegate though,so the best chance seems that Francos gets bored of NS and stops playing....by this line of though,I suggest that notinvading the Pacific will bore him more.....

125 :shock: Is that a new record?

Well, I'm all for removing you Francos, but I would rather do it legally. So, while swallowing my pride, I must sadly give a congratulatory salutation for your work in eliminating this cheater. :roll:

But those of us who are legally trying to unseat will keep trudging along and will eventually win the war! :twisted:

that's right, we won't give up, until you and your buddies are no longer on the delegate seat, and the banlist is cleared! ;)

but we will find a way to do it legally, watch your back...

that's right, we won't give up, until you and your buddies are no longer on the delegate seat, and the banlist is cleared! ;)

but we will find a way to do it legally, watch your back...

I think that this situation has shown that you are incapable of doing it legally, and that you have to resort to cheating in order to unseat the delegate.

Still, I'm not complaining. This has become an Empire vs. Rebellion-type situation, which so far has been more fun that any role-playing situation I could have mustered up.

that's right, we won't give up, until you and your buddies are no longer on the delegate seat, and the banlist is cleared! ;)

but we will find a way to do it legally, watch your back...

I think that this situation has shown that you are incapable of doing it legally, and that you have to resort to cheating in order to unseat the delegate.


um....only one person cheated why say they must resort to cheating?

Let us not split along party lines. The fact is, there are many people wanting a slice of the action, and some are willing to go further than others. Who is damaging the cause depends on which horse you are backing. Personally, I prefer to watch. It is indeed a great Empire vs. Rebels saga, which occasionally makes for a nice spectator sport.

[Grabs another handful of popcorn] ;)

I hadn't realized that this could be a spectator sport, but hey whatever floats your boat! I have to admit, this Empire vs. Rebellion thing is really what is keeping me interested in the game as well!

Is there actually anyone seriously interested in taking out Francos?

Is there actually anyone seriously interested in taking out Francos?
There are obviously some who would like to, but from my observations, they are too few, and too divided. And most other regions want no part in it.

and ackbar....why are your posts always so long? ;)

Look at my flag, I have a big mouth.

No, I like to comment to individual points in a thread, not just make a generic comb over for others to see what I think. So I quote and respond to individuals (and thus individual points). I used to make these several posts, so I would have like 5 posts in a row. The mods found this troublesome, and asked if I would switch over to my now elongated form.

that's right, we won't give up, until you and your buddies are no longer on the delegate seat, and the banlist is cleared! ;)

but we will find a way to do it legally, watch your back...

I think that this situation has shown that you are incapable of doing it legally, and that you have to resort to cheating in order to unseat the delegate.


No offence, but what are you basing this on? The fact that they were found out this last time… considering that they began the invasion a couple hours AFTER update time, this is a sign of nothing other then poor leadership in this regard. Unless I am wrong, and there was no official order to go in…

Regardless, the opposition to Francos has amassed, but has made little in ways of legitimate attempts as of yet.

and ackbar....why are your posts always so long? ;)

Ackbar wants to make sure that we don't think he's ignoring us. Despite of his invading tendencies, and his (almost flaming) long debates, he is actually a very nice person :wink:
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CorinThe
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif
The Central Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=the_central_pacific) (for The Pacific alternative.)

and ackbar....why are your posts always so long? ;)

Look at my flag, I have a big mouth.

:lol:

You want to see some long posts? I have to go back and dig up my old threads on the "Proposal Endorsement Cooperative" or the "Proposed Ruleset on Invasions". :lol:

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

Maybe then 1000 line posts sucking up to the moderators would stop or at least slow down.

and ackbar....why are your posts always so long? ;)

Look at my flag, I have a big mouth.

:lol:

You want to see some long posts? I have to go back and dig up my old threads on the "Proposal Endorsement Cooperative" or the "Proposed Ruleset on Invasions". :lol:

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

I remember the Invasion Ruleset...did anything ever come of that?

I remember the Invasion Ruleset...did anything ever come of that?

Not yet. I'll bring this up again when I have the time.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

invasion ruleset? what's that?

okay, can one of the mods clear this up, please?

francos posted this on the pacific civil HQ:

94 minutes ago The Dominion of Francos Spain P.A. Sanctioned Griefer Invasion Quashed!



Last night, Wednesday, 8 October, a devious and underhanded plot to overthrow the NPO and usurp the delegacy of our great region was carried out by none other than the nation of Bleasdale, a top ranking member of the Pacific Army. The nation created 125 UN nations (which is 124 more than you're legally allowed to have) and attempted to swoop in before the update and take over. Thankfully, with a sharp eye and Pacifican vigilance, we were able to locate and neutralize these threats before any harm could be done. The coup de grace was delivered to these 125 nations several hours later, when they were all deleted from the game entirely by the moderators. Some might call this the intervention of fate, for a greater power protects our region and its leaders from the likes of these shameless rule-breakers.

I hereby declare the 8th of each month hereafter to be the Day of Pacific Triumph over Foreign Aggression, or simply "Day of Pacific Triumph" for short. This is the second holiday established for our region. The 28th of each month has already been marked as Day of Pacific Revolution in commemoration of Francos Spain's original rise to the Delegacy on August 28.

Addionally, I am declaring a three day celebration period already in effect and lasting through the 10th to mark both the reascencion of Francos Spain to the Delegacy and our great victory over subversion. Nations are encouraged to eat, drink, converse, and enjoy themselves to satiation. Celebratory posts on this message board are also encouraged.

well, in response, i posted this, with a puppet:

89 minutes ago The Borderlands of The year 1982 from the ns forum:
"As for mounting a legal invasion of the size we are talking about, it is nearly impossible. If my plan, which was not sanctioned by the PA, had worked, none of this would really matter. The initial plan was not to ban the troika, but I imagine those plans are now changed. As far as I am concerned, they better get to know Kandarin real well. "

as you can see this plan was NOT sanctioned by the pacific army, nor was it a griefing attack.

i agree, this is not the way to fight, not against invaders, and not against a dictator as francos spain.
this plan was not approved nor sanctioned by me or the others in the pacific army and it's allies.
please stop spreading lies, francos spain.
crazygirl.

well, this was his response in a telegram:

The Dominion of Francos Spain
Received: 91 minutes ago "i agree, this is not the way to fight, not against invaders, and not against a dictator as francos spain. "

You liar. You are a collaborator. You have condoned Bleasdale's actions, and what's more, you ASSISTED him/her in the plan. (oh, I guess you're going to tell me someone ELSE controls Crazy Kitty?...)


now, my question is, could someone please tell him that not every nation with the word crazy in it is mine?
crazy kitty is not my nation.
thank you ;)

I remember the Invasion Ruleset...did anything ever come of that?

Not yet. I'll bring this up again when I have the time.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

Oh yeah I remember that! :}

and ackbar....why are your posts always so long? ;)

Ackbar wants to make sure that we don't think he's ignoring us. Despite of his invading tendencies, and his (almost flaming) long debates, he is actually a very nice person :wink:
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CorinThe
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif
The Central Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=the_central_pacific) (for The Pacific alternative.)

Well, thank you for the compliment, tho I would certainly disagree with the idea that the discussions I have posted thus approach flaming. Regardless, I take your compliment between the start and end of your sentence ;).


and ackbar....why are your posts always so long? ;)

Look at my flag, I have a big mouth.

:lol:

You want to see some long posts? I have to go back and dig up my old threads on the "Proposal Endorsement Cooperative" or the "Proposed Ruleset on Invasions". :lol:

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

I believe that I made the last comment on your Proposed Ruleset thread, and you said you were going to follow up J.

I don’t recall the Proposal Endorsement thread, but I am sure it was one of the three or so insane threads we had. As I recall, we had several long discussions with each other, but there were at least three that got so crazy that I recall quotes and debate taking up to like 10 Word pages, it was fun, wrong, and insane.

invasion ruleset? what's that?

Cog came up with a wonderful yet flawed (sorry bud, you can know at least that if I agreed with you I wouldn’t debate the issue—it was well thought out, there may just be a point or two we disagree with, tho it is fun peeling the layers to see what is really there) policy suggestion of rules of invasion. Very involved, in my opinion a bit too heavy handed against invaders, but an interesting discussion none the less.

Crazy Kitty had belonged to me, sorry for the confusion. No one in the PA was made aware of our invasion plan, as I could not trust the PA with the data. Even up til Posky began to eject the first of our invaders, no one in The PA was aware of what was going on. I admit, there were only 20 of us, all multis, that were involved. In for a penny, in for a pound. I'm still guilty of being a multi, and would continue to be if I were not barred from actively participating in the game. If the invasion had worked, the only thing to have occured was that the banned nations list would have been cleared and then all of the quoted 125 nations would have been resigned by the 20 members of my old alliance, of which, I was the last to continue to play. This post will be my last official act in this game, as I am IP banned, and I was quitting anyway. With Bleasdale deleted, and my boyfriend's nation Algoma deleted, there really is no point in bothering with this game anymore. The actual number of nations that were involved was higher than 125 nations, and Francos and company had missed three endorsed nations, only one made it into The Pacific. Since I no longer care, I can say this, "Until the MODs sided with francos Spain from the get go, there was no point bothering to play completely within the rules, since they were not following their own rules, or at least not outwardly appearing to follow them.

so that's why you haven't been on for days..
i'll miss you, dog lake..
don't worry, i'll kick francos for ya, don't know when, or how, but i will..
CG

Havin run the IP scans, I found there to be exactly 125 multies...

125?!? Holy crap!! You gotta admire that kind of dedication it takes to make such a concerted effort. Setting up E-mail accounts, creating nations... yeesh. must havt took a lot more time to create this monster that for Neut to delete them.. lmao!!

Setting up E-mail accounts, creating nations... yeesh.

Actually, those who own their own domain (and actively run it, not some 2-bit provider), it's very easy to give yourself an insane amount of email addresses:
ballotonia-01 @ mydomain.com
ballotonia-02 @ mydomain.com
ballotonia-03 @ mydomain.com
etc...

That leaves creating the nations. Well, enough said already... let's just say we're looking at a very IP-ban worthy event anyway. Dog Lake got an entirely deserved punishment. For the record, this is not the worst someone could do by far, though I shall refrain from even mentioning the really damaging stuff.

Ballotonia

what dog lake did was wrong, true..
that doesn't mean i won't miss talking to her..

Crazy Kitty had belonged to me, sorry for the confusion. No one in the PA was made aware of our invasion plan, as I could not trust the PA with the data. Even up til Posky began to eject the first of our invaders, no one in The PA was aware of what was going on. I admit, there were only 20 of us, all multis, that were involved. In for a penny, in for a pound. I'm still guilty of being a multi, and would continue to be if I were not barred from actively participating in the game. If the invasion had worked, the only thing to have occured was that the banned nations list would have been cleared and then all of the quoted 125 nations would have been resigned by the 20 members of my old alliance, of which, I was the last to continue to play. This post will be my last official act in this game, as I am IP banned, and I was quitting anyway. With Bleasdale deleted, and my boyfriend's nation Algoma deleted, there really is no point in bothering with this game anymore. The actual number of nations that were involved was higher than 125 nations, and Francos and company had missed three endorsed nations, only one made it into The Pacific. Since I no longer care, I can say this, "Until the MODs sided with francos Spain from the get go, there was no point bothering to play completely within the rules, since they were not following their own rules, or at least not outwardly appearing to follow them.

We've been talking via emial (accidently) for a while now. I can tell you, you seem nice and to be a pretty good player, but to suggest that the mods sided with Francos is both inaccurate in dishonest to fully suggest. They sided with consistency in ruling, and that is all. And to ask for something other then this is not to the game’s advantage, despite the abhorrible way Francos has chosen to rule his people.

But to suggest that this is a reason to cheat is inexcusable, so don’t try to excuse it. I like you, think you are a good player (if you are the half of the couple I have been speaking too at least, otherwise pass it along), but I don’t accept any reason to cheat. As I have said in private correspondence, I do hope to see you in the game sometime again, but in a legal maner only.

Either way, good luck.

As I have said in private correspondence, I do hope to see you in the game sometime again, but in a legal maner only.

That probably won't be possible as Dog Lake has been IP banned.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

True True. Maybe in a decade or so he will be unbanned.

True True. Maybe in a decade or so he will be unbanned.

:shock: You're not counting on this game existing a decade from now, do you?!? I'm thinking it would be nice if it lasted until 2005, and that's assuming NS2 happens to cover (some of) the bandwidth bill.

10 years from now... old nations would have something like 22 billion population.

Ballotonia

As strange as it may seem, i understand Bleas. Some concepts of base of this game simply stink... :( They say the game is based on the (cruel) reality around us, but no it isn't. It's exactly the opposite. It's against the reality. Totally. You will never see France kicking/banning Germany out of Europe, period. Etc, etc, etc...

Oh, someone said getting an army of 125 people is impossible. Well, getting an army of 614 how it is then? Watch and learn...

A true hunter always stays in the darkness, hiding, watching for her prey...

http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg

Just some fun :P

Oh, someone said getting an army of 125 people is impossible. Well, getting an army of 614 how it is then? Watch and learn...

A true hunter always stays in the darkness, hiding, watching for her prey...

You are scaring the heck out off all the no0Bs now. I wonder how you deal with someone who's your equal. Would you face him in a fair battle or stay cowering in the shadow forever, or would you run to your mummy crying? :twisted:
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CorinThe
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif
The Central Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=the_central_pacific) (for The Pacific alternative.)

http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg

That is creepy.

Oh, someone said getting an army of 125 people is impossible. Well, getting an army of 614 how it is then? Watch and learn...



wha? (doesn't get to rp much.) or do you mean to get into the pacific?

http://www.danasoft.com/vipersig.jpg

That is creepy.

Not really. Your web browser normally sends that information to every server it contacts. Additionally, the server needs your IP address in order to send webpages to you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to browse the web.

So, that thing is essentially merely taking the information you're sending to it and sending it back to you.

"Think about it for a moment." :wink:

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

I wonder how you deal with someone who's your equal. Would you face him in a fair battle or stay cowering in the shadow forever, or would you run to your mummy crying?

Wow, thank you Corinthe, that's so nice of you.
Actually, this is a battle not worth fighting for. Just like the americans in Iraq. It won't matter if you win or lose, cause actually you're loosing, either way. :?

Scaring the n00bs? Strange words coming from someone who has the star (*) in her signature... violet. :P

Alright. That's enough. This topic has been discussed throughly enough, and I am now locking this thread.