NationStates Jolt Archive

Max,

This site bears the name of your book, which I loved, and an ad for your other book, which I also loved.

I read syrup first, and i thought it was tres cool. I liked the fact that you were Maxx for that one. It showed committment.

I loved Jeniffer Government, it was up there with fight club for me as a book that both predicted the future and subtly offered an alternative...

This site, is cool. the nation aspect and all, It's enjoyable, but you yourself said, you did not expect it to be an ongoing thing...

But you added the forums, and in phpBB forums, they have the general forum. And in the general forum people post stuff, and we saw goatze and tubgirl, so you created mods...

But now the mods are out of control...

Beeker was Hack Nike, Neutered Sputniks is John Nike (the bad one not the one in hospital) people are suffering (virtually) because you gave power to people who do not know how to use it.

You have created this situation, and your publishing company support ths site because (I assume) it helps sell books.

I for one, who have bought both books, will not buy the next because of the way that people I like, who I have not met outside this site, were treated.

Maintaining control of this site is important to you at least for this reader.

The site was created realistically as a marketing tool for your novels, but, based on the message I get from your novels, marketing tools are counter to your philosophy...

or maybe you are just a sellout.

consider this.

The Player Known as Pablo the Squirrel

Pablo will not post again until 'e gets a response

pablo changed ees mind

Threatening not to post might just end in you never posting, so might want to re-think that.

Do what you will, but I suggest e-mailing Max directly, if you want to be sure he reads your complaint.

Chances are pretty good Max will never read your complaint, Pablo. After all, he's not a mod.

He does read his email though - I've had conversations with him myself.

Be that as it may, many of us, who have also bought his books, believe that the mods are doing a good job of moderating this site. Nobody's perfect, but since we can't return to the good old days when people were civil and followed rules, sensible moderation is the only way to go.

Pablo the Squirrel,

If you have issues with the action of the moderators at the level which you are implying, the forums are not the appropriate medium for this complaint. I would highly recommend that any complaints be directed to admin@nationstates.net That e-mail is read only by [violet] and Max. This is the best way to send a message to them, and also is more private/discrete (which some players may desire).

Please remember, though, that for obviuos reasons, the burden of proof is upon you. Thus, a list of specific incidents, threads, etc. in the e-mail would be of great use to both you and Max.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Beeker: Senisble moderation isnt happening because you dont agree with having been deleted for ignoring the warnings/rules for far too long? Or simply because the rules were enforced upon you? Or maybe because we allow nations to post political views you dont agree with?


Pablo: If I were really John Nike (both were bad), then [violet] or Max would have already seen fit to have me removed from the Mod team. Perhaps he feels that at times I do go a little far, however, he has not yet seen fit to remove myself from the Moderation team - and believe me, he's recieved a LOT of emails asking for just that.

Asking for the removal of a Mod simply because you dont like that I am enforcing the rules you agreed to is actually more like what John Nike would do. Remember his "what do we need the Government for" stance? Isnt he the one that didnt like the restrictions on how he could and couldnt advertise and thus just did whatever he wanted till he was brought down by the agent of "the Man"? So, in effect, wouldnt John Nike be more fitting for Beeker, and Calvin Government more fitting for myself (I'd have said Jennifer Gov't, but I"m not female...)? Or would that be a little more logical?

Neut, I don't dislike you personally, and you put up with a lot of stuff that you shouldn't have to. Some of that from me.

I believe moderation is necessary but with flexibility.


The rules are ill defined no spam and no flaming. That can mean whatever you want it to mean at any given point in time.

I wouldn't email Max because in the light of day it seems like a silly thing to get het up about.

You are not corrupt or evil just heavy handed and inflexible.

You have made a fun thing slightly less fun.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

....The rules are ill defined no spam and no flaming. That can mean whatever you want it to mean at any given point in time.


It's best to err on the side of caution. If you think it may possibly be spam or flame, then it probably is. Don't post it.

Pablo, who have I deleted for something that was not clearly flame/spam that didnt have many warnings already?

It's best to err on the side of caution. If you think it may possibly be spam or flame, then it probably is. Don't post it.
That is what I use. There have been several times in which I was tempted to post my opinion a certain democratic presidential hopeful(in the US), but I dislike him so much, that I decided not to post it, less it come across as flamebait or flame. One trick, is only posting links to level headed articles that make your point without flaming.

Pablo, who have I deleted for something that was not clearly flame/spam that didnt have many warnings already?

Nobody, I just think deletion is heavy handed.

So even if the judge warns the same offender multiple times that the penalty for their actions is life without parole, that should remain a threat and never actually followed through with? Or are you saying that life without parole shouldnt even be an option for penalizing criminals?

So even if the judge warns the same offender multiple times that the penalty for their actions is life without parole, that should remain a threat and never actually followed through with? Or are you saying that life without parole shouldnt even be an option for penalizing criminals?

But you're not a judge, and he hasn't committed a crime. Beeker called some people mean names because he gets worked up about stuff.

short term bans seems good to me, it is a punishment to fit the offense but having "done your time" the slate is clean for next time

Beeker had done a short term ban...and within a week of returning was back to his usual self...thus, stronger measures were required.

And Pablo, I am the judge...that's what the Mods are - judge, jury, and executioner (read my national title sometime ;) )

And Pablo, I am the judge...that's what the Mods are - judge, jury, and executioner (read my national title sometime ;) )

:shock: Now thats one long title!...Question who has the longest? :lol:

I do

And Pablo, I am the judge...that's what the Mods are - judge, jury, and executioner (read my national title sometime )

A good friend once told me how hard it was to get ahead in the business world. She talked of being in boardrooms before the meeting where the execs would sit there talking of thier toys and basically be verbally slapping their penises on the table. Every time one guy spoke, another would say something bigger.

she got quite a kick out of it.

sensible moderation is the only way to go.

I'm waiting...

Wow I never knew a player could get a nation deleted for whatever reason (flaming, ignoring warnings, something like that-- not totally sure which of these) then flame the mods with complaints about said deletion.

Rock on, I guess. Might want to tone it down a bit though, I fear you might be treading heavier then you might wish... check your grounding in a while?

Same as I suggested to another player recenetly, step back and breathe. realize it is a game, and you have not lost yet. Simply, if something angers you that much, try to focus on something else and try to get back into the game.

Do these people think they are really going to accomplish anything or have they ever been to another older forum in thier life?

You guys are the reason the mods are so backed up on the game issues like the help requests and figuring out the Un repealing process. The whole forum doesn't revolve around a few people who avidly post in General, in fact, General is the forum which should rightfully get the least amount of attention payed to it, since it has nothing to do with the site or promotion of the book.

It's just a nation, you can still post, it's not most of you RPed in the first place, the population shouldn't mean anything (think about the previous penis slapping statement). Give the mods a break, the only people who really have any reason to complain are the ones who were IP banned, and as far as I've seen they all deserved it.

A good friend once told me how hard it was to get ahead in the business world. She talked of being in boardrooms before the meeting where the execs would sit there talking of thier toys and basically be verbally slapping their penises on the table. Every time one guy spoke, another would say something bigger.

she got quite a kick out of it.

...comin from the guy who tried to impress me with the dollar value of the equipment he works with... ;)

Beeker: Senisble moderation isnt happening because you dont agree with having been deleted for ignoring the warnings/rules for far too long? Or simply because the rules were enforced upon you? Or maybe because we allow nations to post political views you dont agree with?


Actually, what I believe Beeks was implying was that if you deleted him, that you should be deleting some certain nations (which I will not name--I seem to recall a rule about that somewheres) who have fewer overall offenses but whose offenses were more inflamatory in nature. Beeks should have been deleted, I agree. But, IMHO, certain other nations around here are being let off the hook because they haven't worked up enough warnings yet, in spite of doing comparatively worse things.

At this point, it's not about getting Beeks reinstated. It's about asking for a little more equity in how rules are being enforced.

Ahh, but we gave Beeker all kinds of warnings, even a forum ban. Should we not afford everyone else the same chances we afforded Beeker? Or is that unfair?

NM

Read my post, Neut. What happened with Beeker was perfectly fair, and I said as much. What Beeks was saying (and my post was simply a clarification and extension of his argument) is that nations who are doing worse things are getting off with lighter sentences.

And this is not to say that they don't also deserve warnings, but in almost every system of law there's gradation of crime--shouldn't the warning against a user who's verbally grinding someone into the virtual ground be heavier and carry more consequences than the warning against a user who merely called someone an idiot?

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

And Pablo, I am the judge...that's what the Mods are - judge, jury, and executioner (read my national title sometime )

A good friend once told me how hard it was to get ahead in the business world. She talked of being in boardrooms before the meeting where the execs would sit there talking of thier toys and basically be verbally slapping their penises on the table. Every time one guy spoke, another would say something bigger.

she got quite a kick out of it.Its exactly the same thing when you get 3 or more guys together, whatever the subject, whatever the situation.

A girl at my school had a very heavy old saxophone, and it was quite comical to watch a couple of guys offering to carry it, and saying how it really wasn't heavy at all, and then how the next guy found it even easier to carry than the one before, etc etc. They stopped when I pointed out the subtext:
"I have the bigger penis"
"No no, I think you'll find that my penis is bigger"
"I'm sorry, you're very much mistaken. My penis is bigger than either of yours"

Beeker: Senisble moderation isnt happening because you dont agree with having been deleted for ignoring the warnings/rules for far too long? Or simply because the rules were enforced upon you? Or maybe because we allow nations to post political views you dont agree with?


Actually, what I believe Beeks was implying was that if you deleted him, that you should be deleting some certain nations (which I will not name--I seem to recall a rule about that somewheres) who have fewer overall offenses but whose offenses were more inflamatory in nature. Beeks should have been deleted, I agree. But, IMHO, certain other nations around here are being let off the hook because they haven't worked up enough warnings yet, in spite of doing comparatively worse things.

At this point, it's not about getting Beeks reinstated. It's about asking for a little more equity in how rules are being enforced.

That is exactly what it is about and exactly what I was implying...

This was my point also (in other words ) Me Too!

What Tisonica said.

It is fair, that's the thing. Beeker was around for how long, with how many warnings before he was finally deleted? And now you want us to delete every other player that is flaming/spamming without giving them the same opportunities to reform that we gave to Beeker...if that's not what you're arguing for, then I really dont understand what the problem is...(I do, but I dont think you guys all realize what I'm saying here...)

....The rules are ill defined no spam and no flaming. That can mean whatever you want it to mean at any given point in time.


It's best to err on the side of caution. If you think it may possibly be spam or flame, then it probably is. Don't post it.


This place was supposed to be fun, not an exercise in repression, self-imposed or not.

A minimal degree of self-restraint is common sense, not self-censorship.

Greater good...social contract...yada yada yada...

....The rules are ill defined no spam and no flaming. That can mean whatever you want it to mean at any given point in time.


It's best to err on the side of caution. If you think it may possibly be spam or flame, then it probably is. Don't post it.


This place was supposed to be fun, not an exercise in repression, self-imposed or not.

If deliberatly insulting someone is fun to you then you really need to get a hobby. I understand this is a political game and there are going to be disagreements, but there's absolutely no point in some of the off the wall spamming and flaming that seems to be running rampent right now.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

....The rules are ill defined no spam and no flaming. That can mean whatever you want it to mean at any given point in time.


It's best to err on the side of caution. If you think it may possibly be spam or flame, then it probably is. Don't post it.


This place was supposed to be fun, not an exercise in repression, self-imposed or not.

If deliberatly insulting someone is fun to you then you really need to get a hobby. I understand this is a political game and there are going to be disagreements, but there's absolutely no point in some of the off the wall spamming and flaming that seems to be running rampent right now.

Sorry dad...but if you want a lesson in exercising self restraint...get yourself a gimp suit :wink: :lol:

Wow, what a well thought out insult. :roll:

With all the practice you've been getting lately, I thought you might be better at it.

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I'd just like to ask you two, in a friendy manner, that you both cut it out. I don't want to go issuing more official warnings.

Nothingg: Don't feed the troll.

Beeks: Don't be a troll.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Forum Moderator

Sorry, won't happen again.

I'd just like to ask you two, in a friendy manner, that you both cut it out. I don't want to go issuing more official warnings.

Nothingg: Don't feed the troll.

Beeks: Don't be a troll.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Forum Moderator

And I just read a post by Beeks about how he has changed. I know it takes time to go through all your warnings, and that is a good rule.

I just feel like this guy keeps goign and going. I know he has not gone on as long as Shoel yet, tho it has to be close and the content and issues are appicable.

I have nothing against Beeks. In fact, I have nothing for or against him. I just hope he settles, abides the rules, or simply stops detracting more then he contributes. I seem to be seeing a pattern for a while now...

Again, glad that there are various parts, and he isn't deeted immedienbtly. Just seems this player is begging winter time to arrive.

I'd just like to ask you two, in a friendy manner, that you both cut it out. I don't want to go issuing more official warnings.

Nothingg: Don't feed the troll.

Beeks: Don't be a troll.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Forum Moderator

^^^^
Manages to extract yet another warning!! Amazing.