NationStates Jolt Archive

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

hey beek glad your back

I, Master Debator, believe that mods are doing more good than bad on all of the forums even though sometimes they make mistakes im mentioning no names but yes mods do make mistakes they also do a good job keeping out chaos :D in the general forum

There are ups and down. No tubgirl, but not unbridled fun.

So I'm undecided.

I didn't arrive until after the mods were installed so I cannot say. Sometimes they do the right decisions, sometimes not. What was it like before there were any mods?

Never seen life without mods...regardless, they never give me trouble. Maybe it's because I follow the rules...hard to say...

Though they may go overboard on occasion, I'll take the mods over goatse and seeing the forums covered in spam anyday.

Moved on the CH-54 Skycrane of Justice to Moderation
http://okcac.freeyellow.com/ch-54.jpg

I think that the mods have been corrupted. If they delete me for this, it's proof. If they delete me for anything like that, I want there to be a revolution within NS.

----------------
-President Z.D. Meier
Alliance of Democracy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55467)
U.N. Delegate

http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/small/10045000/10045608.jpg

I didn't arrive until after the mods were installed so I cannot say. Sometimes they do the right decisions, sometimes not. What was it like before there were any mods?
it was a time that you could frolic naked in the fields of NS without reprisal but also a time that Goatse could be lurking round the next corner.

pros and cons, but all in all i think they do a good job 97.235% of the time

I used to be an admin on a public message board. We had a regular problem with trolls and the owner handed out co-admin status to many of the regs to try and keep the obscene/flooding posts down round the clock. I think if you have no ability to delete posts or stop threads it can be a problem - if anyone wants to see what happens when you let people riot with no control on a forum, I've got some URLs.

I'm an anarchist, so I don't like authority and some people having power over others. The other side is that modding IMO should only be for genuine excesses. A lot of what passes for 'flaming' or 'flame-baiting' here IMO is just letting off steam. If someone floods a board or spams with total irrelevance, is threatening to another, uses the board to hack, posts pictures that horrify, or similar excesses, these are the things that go over the line. People getting angry about issues like religion, homosexuality, war is totally to be expected.

In conclusion I voted Undecided because I think the forums do need mods, but I'd prefer it if their remit was considerably less interfering than it presently is. Ultimately it's Max's site so it's his call.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

It was okay when we didn't have mods but people hardly broke the rules.

Too bad that didn't last very long. :cry:

Beeker, do you just say this now because you were deleted?

Yes, before he was deleted, he wanted to be a mod, and Neut (beleive it or not)supported it.

Beek, every time you do something like this my opinion of you sinks.

I want there to be a revolution within NS.

I think that the mods have enough to laugh at with the existing one (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75956&highlight=) (which you knew that there was no point in joining).

Remember, it is Max Barry's private property, which he graciously lets us use.

It was okay when we didn't have mods but people hardly broke the rules.

Too bad that didn't last very long. :cry:
*sigh* long time ago.
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<-- realizes that chances are that he has no idea what he's talking about.

. Maybe it's because I follow the rules

Rules. What an interesting concept. You mean there are these little things that set out what is and isn't acceptable behavior? That I must agree to them before playing? That they are enforced?

We're better off with mods. I have two things to say: tubgirl and goatze.

[The number of people that find this difficult to comprehend is amazing.]

I enjoy newsgroups more. Must easier to express your opinion, and trolls always lighten up a boring group.

They've done a lot of good for the site. Sure, they have made some bad decisions, but those are outweighed by right decisions.

Yes, before he was deleted, he wanted to be a mod, and Neut (beleive it or not)supported it.

Beek, every time you do something like this my opinion of you sinks.


Uh, I never supported Beeker's attempts to become a Mod.

I think that the mods have been corrupted. If they delete me for this, it's proof. If they delete me for anything like that, I want there to be a revolution within NS.


Forum goers across the world rose up in revolution, the sat immediately back down, panting heavily. :wink:

This happens in all forums, no offense but it makes you look very very pathetic. The mods will always win, just be glad none of the mods are direct friends with Max, *hears people rhyme tanner with banner in the backround*

I'm actually against deletion, but for more creative punishments. If we are going to punish them we might as well amuse ourselves in the process no? Or you could just hand out many 3-7 day bans, that way nobody can whine about no warning.

There weren't nearly as many nations back then either. Quit spamming and flaming and you probably won't see so much of the mods. Look at almost all the threads on the first page of this forum. "Nation X is spamming my region"; "Why was Nation X deleted?"; "Please lock this thread"; Delete Nation X for flaming"; "The mods interfere too much": Blah, Blah, Blah. It's getting old. This forum used to be about game play issues, now it's just crybaby city. :?

Is beeker the one who keeps creating all these "Why was Beeker deleted" toned threads? It has seemed very redundant in here for the last couple of days in that respect...

I don't notice the mods, because I'm barely ever in general. Mainly because it's full of nazis and hippies.

. Maybe it's because I follow the rules

Rules. What an interesting concept. You mean there are these little things that set out what is and isn't acceptable behavior? That I must agree to them before playing? That they are enforced?

What a strange concept...

Beeker, you know my opinion on guidelines and mods.. _and_on flaming..

due to circumstances elsewhere, I'm pretty glad that the mods here aren't afraid to back the rules and guidelines exsist - no matter who ignored them.. I can't and I won't try to find out if they were exceptionally heavyhanded or not in the present case even if I consider you a friend..

http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/banner6.gif (http://www.onlinenetiquette.com/)

*Felix hops onto table*

I have a story to tell you of this place called NationStates!

Crowd: Oh, really?

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when nukes weren't used in excess!

Crowd: NO!

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when godmodders were rare!

Crowd: NO! Impossible!

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when flaming was hard to find! The General section was sane! Except for [violet], there were no mods!

Crowd: *gasp* Incredible!

Felix: NO! And do you know why this all was possible.

Crowd: Why?

Felix: Because people obeyed the frickin' rules! Thank you all. Good night.

*ahem*

*walks away*

Testify!

Preach on!!

Could the true reason be a smaller number of players? I can imagine things being more friendly and civilised back in the day when there were only 20,000 nations or so, and not 74,000. Although only 27,000 of the latter are individual players, the rest being puppets, but you see what I mean. It is more difficult to flame when you are not lost in a crowd, and if someone does flame, you need fewer Moderators. Maybe NS has simply grown to the sort of size where chaos is always closer, like the difference between a village and a city.

Yes, before he was deleted, he wanted to be a mod, and Neut (beleive it or not)supported it.

Beek, every time you do something like this my opinion of you sinks.


Uh, I never supported Beeker's attempts to become a Mod.
You said that you were going to propose him after he started the "Beeker for Mod" thread.

Or I thought you did anywhen. :?

Yes, before he was deleted, he wanted to be a mod, and Neut (beleive it or not)supported it.

Beek, every time you do something like this my opinion of you sinks.


Uh, I never supported Beeker's attempts to become a Mod.
You said that you were going to propose him after he started the "Beeker for Mod" thread.

Or I thought you did anywhen. :?

Pray that Beeker never becomes a Mod.. he'll simply start deleting anyone who doesn't agree with him.

You said that you were going to propose him after he started the "Beeker for Mod" thread.

Or I thought you did anywhen. :?

If I did, it was purely sarcastically...

Yes, before he was deleted, he wanted to be a mod, and Neut (beleive it or not)supported it.

Beek, every time you do something like this my opinion of you sinks.


Uh, I never supported Beeker's attempts to become a Mod.
You said that you were going to propose him after he started the "Beeker for Mod" thread.

Or I thought you did anywhen. :?

Pray that Beeker never becomes a Mod.. he'll simply start deleting anyone who doesn't agree with him.
"And the walls will come tumbling down"

If I did, it was purely sarcastically...
You sounded genuine.

*shrugs*
Oh well, live and learn.

I quit reading the forums for months because the forums were so awful (before the mods). Now I do more lurking than posting, and there are a lot of forums/threads I don't bother to read, but it's still better than it was.

Don't get me wrong, before the mods came we had some awesome threads, but ultimately the spamming, flaming, and obscenities drove me away.

*Felix hops onto table*

I have a story to tell you of this place called NationStates!

Crowd: Oh, really?

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when nukes weren't used in excess!

Crowd: NO!

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when godmodders were rare!

Crowd: NO! Impossible!

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when flaming was hard to find! The General section was sane! Except for [violet], there were no mods!

Crowd: *gasp* Incredible!

Felix: NO! And do you know why this all was possible.

Crowd: Why?

Felix: Because people obeyed the frickin' rules! Thank you all. Good night.

*ahem*

*walks away*

Hear, hear!

You're absolutely correct. But that's the reason we need mods - because so many people can't be bothered to police themselves.

Well, back before we had mods...

1.) We didn't have quite as many people posting in General.

2.) Less of them were ... ah ... quite as inflammatory.

3.) Occasional instances of massive spammage and/or pornographic materials would essentially shut down all other activity in the forums for an entire day.

I must admit, however, that we've found ... other things to keep us busy with lately. We didn't even bother moderating flamage in the start..

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

I want there to be a revolution within NS.

I think that the mods have enough to laugh at with the existing one (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75956&highlight=) (which you knew that there was no point in joining).

Remember, it is Max Barry's private property, which he graciously lets us use.

But we are all stakeholders and deserve acknowledgement.

No. We did not pay, and so have no guarenteed say.

Right. Live by the rules, or leave. No other option.

Right. Live by the rules, or leave. No other option.

That seems so defeatist to me if rules are wrong you should agitate to get them changed.

Look at say the Boston Tea party (for an extreme example)

They could have said this country is englands private property, live by the rules or leave... Instead they threw tea in tha harbour and invaded IRAQ... wait, what was my point

Different situation thankee very much.

No-brainer, of course.

I want there to be a revolution within NS.

I think that the mods have enough to laugh at with the existing one (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=75956&highlight=) (which you knew that there was no point in joining).

Remember, it is Max Barry's private property, which he graciously lets us use.

But that's exactlly why I would want there to be a revolution because it's sooooooooooo pointless and stupid, some humor in my memory.

----------------
-President Z.D. Meier
Alliance of Democracy (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=55467)
U.N. Delegate

http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/small/10045000/10045608.jpg

Right. Live by the rules, or leave. No other option.

That seems so defeatist to me if rules are wrong you should agitate to get them changed.

Look at say the Boston Tea party (for an extreme example)

They could have said this country is englands private property, live by the rules or leave... Instead they threw tea in tha harbour and invaded IRAQ... wait, what was my point

"The best way to get a bad law revoked is to enforce it." --Abraham Lincoln

I think that the mods have done some good things. They also help to keep people in line and delete those who need deleting. So I would say that they are generally (although not all) a positive influence on NS (especially when they first started).

No offence guys...but I have been here since Jan 5th...alot of you mods are all April apart from the odd exception (Menelmecar) so you really didn't know what it was like when it was modless...It really wasn't that bad...ok...I take your point about there being alot more players now...but I don't think we get that much of a problem with spamming/flaming anyway...not compared to alot of forums i've been on :?

Ah... ageism.

No, Mr. Beeker, I very much remember when there were no mods. I remember Zoland spamming all sorts of filth all over the forums, and there being little to nothing that could be done, because [violet] wasn't on. In fact, I don't think there is a single mod that doesn't remember the pre-mod times. We're not a bunch of July nations, after all.

Furthermore, you say that there isn't "much of a problem" regarding spamming and flaming "compared to alot[sic] of [other] forums". Is you problem that the mods enforce the rules, or that this site is trying to hold to higher standards? Or both?

I remember even further back...but still, whilst we had more freedoms without the mods, they have 'cleaned' the game up which is a good thing. However, some seem to be getting over themselves a bit now.

So I guess enforcing the rules is great, until the players you like break the rules repeatedly and with great impunity and are summarily punished...

That's what this is, right? Beeker was extremely popular, and so he could do whatever he wanted and it was ok. But those damn neo-Nazis should all be deleted for posting their beliefs because we dont like them...or have I misinterpreted everyone's posts on this issue?

Before the mods...ok there was the odd spam and flame....but it was alot easier to express opinions without these power trippers coming in heavy handed...seems like a few and I'm mentioning no names seem to just enjoy throwing their weight around...and as for the double standards I see on here....the mind really does boggle...this is not flame bait...this is an opinion...agree or disagree as you will...

Append to this:

Before the mods, there was also at least 15 times fewer people...

or have I misinterpreted everyone's posts on this issue?

not everyone's.. but at least one :wink:

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

So because it's you it's wheat, but if it were the neo-Nazis it'd be chaff?

As an aside - I recall getting warned for sarcasm in my points.

I hope the playing field gets leveled before this goes much further.

TIA.

*Felix hops onto table*

I have a story to tell you of this place called NationStates!

Crowd: Oh, really?

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when nukes weren't used in excess!

Crowd: NO!

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when godmodders were rare!

Crowd: NO! Impossible!

Felix: Yes! There was a time... when flaming was hard to find! The General section was sane! Except for [violet], there were no mods!

Crowd: *gasp* Incredible!

Felix: NO! And do you know why this all was possible.

Crowd: Why?

Felix: Because people obeyed the frickin' rules! Thank you all. Good night.

*ahem*

*walks away*

When I tried to teach newbs the rules I was verbally assaulted for being a "pain in the ass" by other players (non-newbs)....Hmmm....

I have to definitely agree, however, it was nice when GDODAD was the main repository of godmoders (though I now realize that any sins on their part were mere fractions of the godmodery that now occurs...and they were at least decent RPers (at times) aside from the few impossibilities. This is sad.

Personally, I think it's a bit much when the mods delete all of the posts by a nation for 1-2 spam messages (even a day's worth)...instead of deleting the nation and the previous day's postings. In some cases (dedicated spammers) it's justified, but in the cases of Raem and TSE, it means that a LOT of good RP and writings were lost.



Could the true reason be a smaller number of players? I can imagine things being more friendly and civilised back in the day when there were only 20,000 nations or so, and not 74,000. Although only 27,000 of the latter are individual players, the rest being puppets, but you see what I mean. It is more difficult to flame when you are not lost in a crowd, and if someone does flame, you need fewer Moderators.

I remember there being over 100,000 nations when I started (dropped significantly w/ Mod arrival, thanks to the massive elimination of UN multis and routine spammers)....not sure where you get 20,000 from. Still, there were fewer spammers and more civilized people then.

TSE? I thought he got bored and left? Why, what did he do?

TSE? I thought he got bored and left? Why, what did he do?

He did get bored, but he didn't 'just' leave: He spammed gloriously a few topics and posts, easily removable, and ALL of his previous postings were deleted....

TSE? I thought he got bored and left? Why, what did he do?

He did get bored, but he didn't 'just' leave: He spammed gloriously a few topics and posts, easily removable, and ALL of his previous postings were deleted....

Don't forget how he posted goatze all over.

TSE? I thought he got bored and left? Why, what did he do?

He did get bored, but he didn't 'just' leave: He spammed gloriously a few topics and posts, easily removable, and ALL of his previous postings were deleted....

Don't forget how he posted goatze all over.

Ew, not-so-glorious spamming, perhaps (I missed that day).

I think creating mods has made the game more friendly. Before moderators there was no way to get your deleted nation back, no way to stop griefing and ns was littered with UN multis. If something went wrong, or you were subjected to an injustice, tough luck, you had to bear through it.

Of course all of the new features which have came with versions 1.4, 1.5 and 1.6 also help to make the game more user friendly, but a human touch is needed to ensure these improvments are put into full effect.

As for the forums, I dont think the mods are overstepping their boundaries. The moderators dont just go around deleting any post they dont like the look of, they delete posts which are of inconvinience to the ns population. Without moderation, these forums would be full of spam, there would be no deterrent to stop it, any nation could ruin the entire forum at will.

Nah- sure, some of the mods can seem pretty uptight, but think of all the flamers we'd have to deal with without them. It's well worth a small absense of freedom.

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

If something went wrong, or you were subjected to an injustice, tough luck, you had to bear through it.

Can I just point something out here...please don't take offence for none is intended but this is just a game mate...nothing more nothing less...some people need to realise this...words on a computer screen...stop taking it so seriously :D

I agree. And although I can't say I personally know you or your posting style, a lot of the flamers are really annoying, and I'm glad there are people to get rid of 'em for the rest of us.

Uh, Beeker? Kitchen utensils making accusatory remarks?

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Uh, Beeker? Kitchen utensils making accusatory remarks?

Eh? :?

I would have said Lab Equipment, but hey you say Tomato.....

Steady boys. It seems TPE has departed volunterily, where's the orbiting mod? Haven't heard from him for a while neither. ...........Lab equipment?

Whoops! Sorry, just seen the passing orb. My mistake.

Whoops! Sorry, just seen the passing orb. My mistake.

INCOMING!

I have been here since January (ignore the creation date, it is wrong). I started this game before there were moderators and played it for a number of months before moderators were established.

It was fun during the time there were no moderators. For about 95% of NationStates there were no problems. The 5% of the game that did require help was in serious need of some moderation. Sometimes spamming would go on for days in regional boards without any kind of punishment or ceasation. When you could get Max's atttention he would take care of it effectively.
During that time it was VERY clear what would bring the wrath of a moderator or admin down on you. Filling the board with the same message 10 times in 2 seconds for an hour would do it. Filling the board with crap to wipe off other peoples messages would do it. Multy-ing would do it. Other than that it was pretty much fair game. In the forums spamming would get you deleted and over the top profanity/offensive material would get you deleted. In other words, if it was VERY clear that you were being annoying (I stress VERY) you would have action taken against you.

Some moderation team was needed but only to deal with items that were VERY clear to be intended to disrupt the game. Max was too busy to address all the problems in a timely manner.

Since the moderators have been installed there has been a "grey" area as to what is acceptable and what isn't acceptable. It is no longer clear as to what will get admin/moderator to take action against you. I was just reading today where someone was deleted for posting a UN resolution that was outside the rules posted in the forum. It seems that the grey area keeps getting wider and wider. I gave up asking for a clarification of the rules because the answer was invariably "don't grief, what's so hard to understand about that?". Further the clarification can't be made because then it would leave "loopholes" that people would exploit.

So instead of expressing what the rules of the game are, everyone has to walk on eggshells and tiptoe around hoping to read the mind of the moderators. In this way the moderators are free to do whatever they want and the players are left guessing.

To leave the definition of acceptable behavior to be mostly defined as "Griefing" in my opinion is a cop-out. If I were to play a game of say tag and change the rules so that the rule was "Play Fair" the game would never work. "Griefing" is a subjective term that does not mean the same to all people. This in my opinion is one of the biggest problems that having a moderating team has posed so far. It seems to be too difficult for our moderating team to be able to accomplish this and it appears that we have become accepting of this pseudo-rule enforcing.

But I would love to see it change. :|

Well-argued, Juxtapositions.

But personally, I have not seen much concrete evidence of Moderator power abuse, or the sort of fear / intimidation that you describe. On those few occasions when I have seen mistakes made, they were rectified, and an apology given. And without Moderators, I do not see how the rules could be enforced. There have to be rules, and someone has to enforce them. You say that in the pre-Mod era, 95% of the time everything was OK. Unfortunately, if you are forever stuck in the 5%, that is cold comfort. I have lost count of the number of times my nations and my region have been spammed or flamed, and without prompt action, some of my assets would have become unusable. And the number of attempted griefings I have witnessed - somone has to punish the perpetrators on those occasions when they succeed.

You suggest making the rules much clearer. Unforunately, this is a game of politics, and politics is a game characterised by greyness. One cannot be bound by rigid rules, as there will always be exceptions, or annoying details. I believe that every case must be judged on its own merits. Griefing, for example, could easily be defined by some arbitrary parameters. But it is only right to look at the big picture and where appropriate, allow greyness to enter into the decision.

Well-argued, Juxtapositions.
Thanks, likewise I am sure.



But personally, I have not seen much concrete evidence of Moderator power abuse, or the sort of fear / intimidation that you describe. On those few occasions when I have seen mistakes made, they were rectified, and an apology given. And without Moderators, I do not see how the rules could be enforced. There have to be rules, and someone has to enforce them. You say that in the pre-Mod era, 95% of the time everything was OK. Unfortunately, if you are forever stuck in the 5%, that is cold comfort. I have lost count of the number of times my nations and my region have been spammed or flamed, and without prompt action, some of my assets would have become unusable. And the number of attempted griefings I have witnessed - somone has to punish the perpetrators on those occasions when they succeed.


I am not attempting to say that the moderators are abusing their power. On the contrary, the definition of their power is so wide and far that it almost cannot be abused. As I stated in my previous posting, moderators were/are needed however the rules of the game should be expressed more clearly to make it easier for the players to stay within the rules and also for the moderators to enforce them.
There is plenty of evidence of a "grey" area as it applies to the moderators actions. At least once a day, usually more, there is a post asking "Why was such and such deleted" -or- "Why was X removed from the UN" or "Why did I get the mod message XXX". This is because the players are being held to rules which are not expressed in most cases.
To me and others it was more fun when the rules were more clear and being enforced more evenly. It feels as though I am playing a game of Calvinball ever since the moderators have been established.



You suggest making the rules much clearer. Unforunately, this is a game of politics, and politics is a game characterised by greyness. One cannot be bound by rigid rules, as there will always be exceptions, or annoying details. I believe that every case must be judged on its own merits. Griefing, for example, could easily be defined by some arbitrary parameters. But it is only right to look at the big picture and where appropriate, allow greyness to enter into the decision.

Yes there should be grey area. There should only need to be about 3-5% of the time when the grey area should be used if that. There are plenty of things that could be written down as rules and they are discussed all the time in this and other forums:
1.) How many people can be kicked out of a region
2.) How many posts can you take on a board
3.) How many telegrams you can send to a person
4.) What is spamming
5.) What words are not allowed
6.) What is considered racism
7.) What is considered flaming

etc.....there are more that can be found looking through the historical records of this forum however that would be a good start. By writing down rules it makes the game enjoyable for all.

Woah, all those "why was xxx deleted' messages come from players that dont want to admit they've broken the rules and have to accept responsibility for doing so. 99 times out of 100, those players know exactly what they were doing that caused their deletion, with the exception being the actual enforcement of the guidelines for UN resolutions begun just recently by Enodia (yes, with Max's direct approval, I might add).

These rules have not changed, and it's quite simple to remain within the rules. Simply ask yourself if what you are about to post could be taken the wrong way, and if so, how it would be taken.

Tactical Grace is right, there are always those players who feel the need to attempt to abuse the rules when they are set too hard in stone. Thus, the grey area as endorsed by [violet] and Max, enforced by the Moderation team. If the rules were to be set in stone, why even have human moderators? Why not write a few scripts that automatically detect rule violations and summarily warn/delete said violator?

Maybe if they have time and feel it would help, they would consider posting an Announcement in Moderation. But the people who cause all the trouble do not read stuff like that, and would not really benefit.

Yes there should be grey area. There should only need to be about 3-5% of the time when the grey area should be used if that. There are plenty of things that could be written down as rules and they are discussed all the time in this and other forums:
1.) How many people can be kicked out of a region
2.) How many posts can you take on a board
3.) How many telegrams you can send to a person
4.) What is spamming
5.) What words are not allowed
6.) What is considered racism
7.) What is considered flaming

etc.....there are more that can be found looking through the historical records of this forum however that would be a good start. By writing down rules it makes the game enjoyable for all.

1) That's relative to the size of the region, what is happening in the region, etc. Grey area...
2) On what board? A regional board? Well, spam is spam, and posting anything with substance, no matter how many different posts, can hardly be considered spam (unless it's just the same post over and over). Everyone already knows this one...
3) Same as 2
4) Same as 2
5) Quite simply ask yourself if it's a word you would use when talking with your parent (not in an argumentive manner, mind you), or elder, etc... We all know foul language and what is unacceptable, why does everyone feel the need to play dumb?
6) There is a fine line between a racist post, and a post wherein one is simply stating his/her beliefs about politics/the world in general. Generally, racism is allowed as long as it does not become griefing/flaming. It is, after all, a very valid political view - same as us anti-racists.
7) Once again, this is grey area. What might appear to you as merely a response to another's post, might in fact be a flame to the person it was addressed to - grey area.

These rules are all well defined, have been for quite a long while defined and enforced as such...I dont see why people claim to not know the rules when they're nation is deleted...

Maybe if they have time and feel it would help, they would consider posting an Announcement in Moderation. But the people who cause all the trouble do not read stuff like that, and would not really benefit.

I understand your apprehension however you are making an assumption that those who receive moderator action are out to blatently break the rules. This is not usually the case. What would be the point of putting effort into a game only to get kicked out? I have seen a few characters who do blatently break the rules, I admit that they would not benefit.
Those who are posting in this forum asking why they had some moderator action taken against them are not in that group however. Why bother going through the extra effort to appeal anything if you were out to break the rules in the first place? For every one that posts in this forum there are most likely 2 or 3 out there who just accept it and go on. The rules are grey and could be clarified. This is what I feel is missing in today approach to moderating.
I am trying to keep in line of the thread without moderator bashing. I really don't think it is all the fault of the moderators. They are doing the easiest thing, enforcing order through domination. One group has all the control and can wield it as they see fit. If they are held to no rules as far as using that power then they keep the populace in line because the populace has to guess what they are suppossed to do. It's the easiest solution to handling an unwieldy population. Once you write down laws it becomes harder to police because people find a way around those laws. It makes policing and moderating harder but the populace is more happy because they know what behavior is expected of them.
With our current moderating practice this can't happen. There are not enough moderators to write the laws and the general concensus among the moderating team (government) is that the grey area is just fine. Just speaking from the populace, not all of us feel that way.

5) Quite simply ask yourself if it's a word you would use when talking with your parent (not in an argumentive manner, mind you), or elder, etc... We all know foul language and what is unacceptable, why does everyone feel the need to play dumb?


This is part of my point Neut and a good example. I do occasionaly say s**t or F**k around my parents. It is used sparingly but every once in a while it's a good word to use for an emotion.
What is unacceptable to you may be perfectly acceptable to me. I might say God Dam**t. I am agnostic so it doesn't bother me at all, someone else may get really upset. Different people have different experiences and not realize what they are saying is unacceptable. It is a grey area and is not expressed anywhere on this site yet it warrants moderator action when used.
I don't think it is playing dumb as much as we are witnesing the clashing of many differnt people from many different cultures from around the world. To ask someone sitting in America to be cognizant of all of the sultuties of the worlds populations is a tall order. By writing it down it helps everyone.

Thank your for the rest of the response. I did notice that 5 out of the 7 that you answered were answered in an ambiguous manner. The reason I say this is because number 2 indicates you have to post something of suibstance for it not to be spam. This is subjective.

I have to congratulate the moderating team lately as well, I think you've been doing better at being more consistent in the enforcement even though the rules are unclear.

Also, I have not received any moderator action in -oh gosh- 3 months? I try to keep my nose pretty clean.

If the rules were to be set in stone, why even have human moderators? Why not write a few scripts that automatically detect rule violations and summarily warn/delete said violator?

If anyone wants help with this idea I will be willing to lend a hand :)

Sorry to post again, I responded to Neut, then Tactical grace, then I re-read Neuts.