NationStates Jolt Archive

There is a nation which just applied to the UN called N A M B L A , in the region of Varrock.

NAMBLA is a real organization , "North American Man/Boy Love Association", which promotes pedophilia. They deny this, saying the sex is consensual, but most laws say sex with an underage boy is rape, that those who are underage are not able to give consent. This north-american organization has to base its website in Denmark, presumably becasue no US web-servers would host a blatantly illegal website.

Does NationStates condone this illegal activity? I can't believe this person was allowed to name a nation this.

Please delete this user from NS.

If everything you say is true, this site shouldn't pander to that stuff. Even if it was meant in fun, it's extremely offensive. A demand for a name change would be enough?

File a report via the Getting Help page in the FAQs, and the mods will get to it.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

[b]aaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!!!!!!!

This is Spoffin about to be slammed for defending paedophiles... but is this any worse than all the Nazi nations? Many of their (nazi) sites won't be hosted in countries like say, Germany. Its also a fairly oblique reference.

I don't agree with this nation's name obviously, but the rules are a little vague in this area.

Thoughts?

Wouldn't he be in violation of the UN resolution "Outlaw Pedophilia"? ;-)

Wouldn't he be in violation of the UN resolution "Outlaw Pedophilia"? ;-)
Not if he didn't rp it into his nation

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Wouldn't he be in violation of the UN resolution "Outlaw Pedophilia"? ;-)
Not if he didn't rp it into his nation

I know that...see the wink?

Also playing devil's advocate: There was an episode of South Park where NAMBLA stood for "National Association of Marlon Brando Look-A-likes". Don't suppose anybody's bothered to talk to N A M B L A to see which way he meant it...

The difference, Spoffin, is that being a neonazi isn't illegal (with a few notable exceptions), but raping a child is.

Additionally, it might shock you to learn that not everyone is in the UN, and thus not subject to its rules.
Well, as I pointed out, being a Nazi/neonazi is illegal in Germany. And I'm sure there are some countries without an age of consent. Are you only going by american laws?

That is normally the way it works, as the server is in the US.

That is normally the way it works, as the server is in the US.
Hmm. Not sure about law/ server location/ internet censorship. Anyone who knows more about this than I do?

I reported Combat 18 through the Getting Help page when it was created. For those who do not know, it is a UK far-right outfit, one that actually kills people. And lo and behold, they are now nearing a population of 200m. So the answer seems to be, don't count on it. Offensive, but no rule breach.

File a report via the Getting Help page in the FAQs, and the mods will get to it.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

Thanks, I appreciate the direction and have now done that. I would still like to hear more from the other folks here as well, even though it's only the mods who will have a real say in the matter.

We dont go by any real world Nation's laws...we go by Max's laws. If you'll notice, in the FAQ he lists what is not allowed. Pedophilia is not allowed, whereas Nazis are.

The swastika is a seperate issue. Very simply, Max just decided that he didnt like it and thus it was not allowed. As it's Max's site he can do stuff like that. You agreed to it when you agreed to the ToS (Terms of Service).

I think Neut said it all. Doesn't mean I won't speak my O as well thO.

Nazism is a disgusting politcal agenda. Pedophillia is sex with children.

I think if you examine the differences in these two over-simplified definitions you might see why one is allowed and the other, in my opinion, should not.

We dont go by any real world Nation's laws...we go by Max's laws. If you'll notice, in the FAQ he lists what is not allowed. Pedophilia is not allowed, whereas Nazis are.

The swastika is a seperate issue. Very simply, Max just decided that he didnt like it and thus it was not allowed. As it's Max's site he can do stuff like that. You agreed to it when you agreed to the ToS (Terms of Service).

Go NEUT!

This is somewhat of a personal issue for me. A friend of mine from school is the creator of the Pelican region that N A M B L A resided in for some period of time (it is no longer there), and they had communication. He was upset about the pending action to be taken against N A M B L A, and I am as well, partially for free speech issues, and partially because I do support NAMBLA.

I should note that I support them based on what they stand for, not based on what certain members have done. NAMBLA does not encourage sexual intercourse with minors while it is illegal. It promotes legalization of such acts, or at least, a lowering of the legal age. They site teachings by culture as the true culprit of negative feelings following such experiences. NAMBLA promotes sexual liberation, but is strongly opposed to rape or exploitation, and they truly believe that with understanding, such activity would be beneficial to both participants. Claiming that NAMBLA wants to legalize sex with 8 year olds is pure propaganda, and is just a highly inaccurate attempt to attach emotional weight, when they, in fact, are on the side of the more damaging practice.

Also, NAMBLA does not focus simply on Man/Boy love. They also promote rights of all consentual sexual acts. They also address issues such as wars, healthcare, regulation of business which they think has a marked effect on people. It is far from a club of pedophiles who seek to find some little kids to rape. I'd suggest some of you take an open-minded look at their site. (http://www.nambla1.de) I do not agree with all that is there, and I do not agree with the actions of certain members (and it should be noted that NAMBLA itself condemns such actions) but I agree with their general purpose.

Please do not censor (or censure) displays of support for this legitamate organization.

Also playing devil's advocate: There was an episode of South Park where NAMBLA stood for "National Association of Marlon Brando Look-A-likes". Don't suppose anybody's bothered to talk to N A M B L A to see which way he meant it...

Well, he is quite obviously going to deny it!

We dont go by any real world Nation's laws...we go by Max's laws. If you'll notice, in the FAQ he lists what is not allowed. Pedophilia is not allowed, whereas Nazis are.

The swastika is a seperate issue. Very simply, Max just decided that he didnt like it and thus it was not allowed. As it's Max's site he can do stuff like that. You agreed to it when you agreed to the ToS (Terms of Service).

While this is all very true, doesn't Max have to make sure that his site abides by the laws where he lives, or where the server is based?

Whilst we have to do as Max says, as so to speak, he has to abide by the laws of his nation and so if it says that hosting paedophilia is not allowed he has to abide by this (which he has).

Whilst I'm not disagreeing with what you have said, infact I agree, we do, in a way, have to abide by real world laws because Max has to make sure that his site abides by them.

I need to point out that despite the media's faliure to make proper use of English, paedophilia is not sex with children; it is the mental illness that causes people to have sexual desires towards children, similar to the mental illnesses that cause people to have sexual desires towards animals or people of the same sex. Until Orwell's "Thought Police" (I think it was Orwell) are implemented, paedophilia cannot be illegal.

The crime you're thinking of is "pedestery" if I've spelt it correctly that is.

I think the word you're after, Anabaria, is "pederasty". I've heard it used once or twice as a noun - usually as in "the man was a pederast" though.

Catholic Europe - not that I'm defending something as deeply perverted as paedophilia/pederasty/NAMBLA, but a defence could be mounted that "paedophilia" itself is not being hosted here. It's primarily a piece of semantics, but what's left of my legal mind can envisage an unscrupulous lawyer trying the line of "your Honour, we're not hosting anything related to this disease here. We merely happen to be hosting a member whose name bears a passing resemblance to an organisation linked to said disease." Of course, running that line would require (if nothing else) Max to be unscrupulous enough to hire such a lawyer. Unlikely at best.

Actually, that's what I'd say if I were a lawyer. There is nothing illegal about having an accout with the same initials as that (in)famous group. It would only be illegal if we were actually hosting kiddie-porn. Now, regarding the legality of this nation, I'm just a techie and refuse to take a position.

Now, I don't think there is anything illegal about the NAMBLA accout, so I don't see that as being the main concern here. The issue would simply be whether he wants to allow a nation name, for an orgianziation that encourages intimate relationships with children.

I am much much into free speech, so I don't see this as a free speech issue at. This site is not the internet. It is a site on the internet. Max has the authoritty, and with some distinction, the right to do moderate (or not so moderate) cesuring in order to help the site build as he would like. I don't see how a nation encoraging sex with children fits in anyway to the advantage of the site. And surely, it does not seem to have any politcal force.

Even the puddists were able to justify themselves as a politcal movement. Pederasts are not a political force. They could be considered a special interest group, if you wish to do so, but they are not of a poltical make up.

I don't see what the site gains from this nation, tho I think any snation encouraging others to check out NAMBLA is slightly detrminetal to the community of the site.

Regardless, if this site does continue, I just hope the mods put an extra eye on hom to be sure his comminications are in que.

Now, I don't think there is anything illegal about the NAMBLA accout, so I don't see that as being the main concern here.
I would like to refer you to the first comment in this thread asking about the account's offensive nature. I refer you also to the comment by neutered sputniks in which he rules that the account is illeagal according to the terms of service.


Even the puddists were able to justify themselves as a politcal movement. Pederasts are not a political force. They could be considered a special interest group, if you wish to do so, but they are not of a poltical make up

I would like to refer you back to the comment from Delhatet in which [s]he outlines the political agenda for the group. You may also wish to refer to websites of thiers.
http://www.nambla1.de/

Looks like NAMBLA propaganda to me :?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
CorinThe
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif
The Central Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=the_central_pacific) (for The Pacific alternative.)

oh. I never said I agreed with them. *shrug* I most certainly do not. But those are my politics.

oh. I never said I agreed with them. *shrug* I most certainly do not. But those are my politics.

I think that calling yourself (Not to you Bismath 8) ) NAMBLA is some kind of statement. He deserves to be questioned about it. Btw, are we acusing a nation by name now? You know that's not allowed here. The mods should edit all these names out now. We are acusing and sentencing him/her now. :? I guess me must stop this thread, and continue it in the HELP section (in my signature :wink: ).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
*
CorinThe
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif
The Central Pacific (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=the_central_pacific) (for The Pacific alternative.)

Okay, he has these views, some (read, most) are offended by them. Is that a reason to delete him though?

oh. I never said I agreed with them. *shrug* I most certainly do not. But those are my politics.

I think that calling yourself (Not to you Bismath 8) )

bah. sorry. my stupid. :roll: :wink:

[quote=Ackbar]Now, I don't think there is anything illegal about the NAMBLA accout, so I don't see that as being the main concern here.
I would like to refer you to the first comment in this thread asking about the account's offensive nature. I refer you also to the comment by neutered sputniks in which he rules that the account is illeagal according to the terms of service.
[quote]

I didn't say this is not agsainst the rules, that it is. If you look at the posts though, there was some discussion not just about rules of the game (TOS) but the question as to whether allowing such a nation would open Max to legal implications. I don't believe there would be any legal issues with this nation, tho I am fine with using the TOS against him.

I reported Combat 18 through the Getting Help page when it was created. For those who do not know, it is a UK far-right outfit, one that actually kills people. And lo and behold, they are now nearing a population of 200m. So the answer seems to be, don't count on it. Offensive, but no rule breach.

Or, hate and violence are ok but non-serious amusement (aka "spam") is not.

Newly Assembled Max Berry Live Advertisements?

Okay, he has these views, some (read, most) are offended by them. Is that a reason to delete him though?

I have suggested demanding a name change. If the chappie were to attempt to promote paedophilia, jump on him. It seems to me though, to be just a silly (and yes, bloody offensive) choice of name, to shock and awe.

Has anyone even shown the guy this thread? Or has everyone already played judge/jury/executioner?

Hmm, I dont recall saying this nation's title was offensive. NAMBLA can stand for just about anything. Show me proof that it stands for the pedophile organization...

Hmm, I dont recall saying this nation's title was offensive. NAMBLA can stand for just about anything. Show me proof that it stands for the pedophile organization...
I agree with Neut.

Freaky, ennit?

I agree with Neut.

Freaky, ennit?

/me faints...


WOAH...

Hmm, I dont recall saying this nation's title was offensive. NAMBLA can stand for just about anything. Show me proof that it stands for the pedophile organization...

Any real proof is only in the mind of the person who created that nation. Is "and its currency is the suple young boys" considered an indication?

Ballotonia

Who's definition of "young" are we using? I mean, I'm young to some people, but definately not a child...

In response to Spherical Objects' suggestion of a demand that the nation's name be changed - we can't do that. Mods used to be able to change nation-names, but we can't anymore because it was linked (from memory) to the dreaded Population/I'm Not Getting New Issues bug.

Hmm, I dont recall saying this nation's title was offensive. NAMBLA can stand for just about anything. Show me proof that it stands for the pedophile organization...
I agree with Neut.

Freaky, ennit?

I don't. Even if it wasn't meant to stand for that, it still does, as well as many other things. He should be asked to choose another name to which one of the GM's'll change it to. But hey, I'm just a lowly Brit, why would my opinion count at all.

I don't. Even if it wasn't meant to stand for that, it still does, as well as many other things. He should be asked to choose another name to which one of the GM's'll change it to. But hey, I'm just a lowly Brit, why would my opinion count at all.

Peng-Pau wasn't meant to sound like it was making fun of the Chinese language. It still does. Should I file you on the Getting help page?

In response to Spherical Objects' suggestion of a demand that the nation's name be changed - we can't do that. Mods used to be able to change nation-names, but we can't anymore because it was linked (from memory) to the dreaded Population/I'm Not Getting New Issues bug.


Peng-Pau wrote:
I don't. Even if it wasn't meant to stand for that, it still does, as well as many other things. He should be asked to choose another name to which one of the GM's'll change it to. But hey, I'm just a lowly Brit, why would my opinion count at all.


Doesn't anyone around here pay attention!

I know N A M B L A IRL, we go to the same high school. The creator of Pelican goes there as well, as does most of Pelican, we invited him to join the game a while back, and while his nation was disturbing at first, and I even ejected him at first for it, and the second region he went to did, I can assure you he does not support NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association), he is a bit strange and eccentric in his jokes, but this is not in fact him supporting that group

In fact I can pretty well assure that the name of the nation is derived from an inside joke between me, the Pelican Creator, and him. We were at a mall once, and me and Geuverasa (The Pelican creator) went back in to the mall to get something, and left him on a railing outside it. While inside we walked around for about half an hour joking that we would go back outside and see some biker guy in leather umm..... handling Tubbs (That is his nickname, he refers to me as Creamy, becuase of my skin and not getting tanned at all about 2 summers ago, not anything else, and yes, I have since darkened). We said we were expecting to get some mail from NAMBLA asking for us to help save Tubby, it's been a running joke since.

Okay, he has these views, some (read, most) are offended by them. Is that a reason to delete him though?

I have suggested demanding a name change. If the chappie were to attempt to promote paedophilia, jump on him. It seems to me though, to be just a silly (and yes, bloody offensive) choice of name, to shock and awe.

Weird war references, of course I am sure that it was just me….

Hmm, I dont recall saying this nation's title was offensive. NAMBLA can stand for just about anything. Show me proof that it stands for the pedophile organization...

Understood, and at level 1 it makes sense. But, this sort of thinking would leave proof to be that the swastika stands for Nazism, USA stands for the United States of America, NRA stands for the Nation Rifle Association, and so on…. Yeah, I can find evidence of these groups, but you could split hairs down this logic into the areas listed above. There is an established reference. That said, I can support either way. I am sure, if this nation is allowed to last, that he will be watched heavily. So, no worries as I see it. If this is a freak, he won’t get away with anything wrong, most likely.

Show me a nation that has ever had a swastika that wasnt using it to represent the Nazi party...and I mean in an active manner...

Also, you're correct. The nation in question will be watched. And should the player begin posting anything deemed offensive, the nation will be deleted. Plain and simple.

Let me put it this way: I can name a nation just about anything I want without giving grounds for deletion. However, if I make posts against the rules, it then can become grounds for deletion due to collaboration...

That is normally the way it works, as the server is in the US.
Hmm. Not sure about law/ server location/ internet censorship. Anyone who knows more about this than I do?

I would advise the mods to get in touch with this guy and talk to him about his nation's name.
If he does rp pedophilia, the US government will literally view it as a promotion of an illegal act against US laws, and the site could be shut down and the owner, admins, and mods could get into serious legal trouble.
Even ordinary rpers could get into trouble just for visiting the site.
I agree there are many nations out there that don't have age of consent laws. And I think most state's laws are too high and too strict. But I give you this advise so you can avoid legal problems.
In the US, it is illegal to post anything on the web which in any depicts or promotes pedophilia or can viewed as doing such.
I would not delete him for his name cause as the case was made earlier, that would be crossing the line.

I don't. Even if it wasn't meant to stand for that, it still does, as well as many other things. He should be asked to choose another name to which one of the GM's'll change it to. But hey, I'm just a lowly Brit, why would my opinion count at all.

Peng-Pau wasn't meant to sound like it was making fun of the Chinese language. It still does. Should I file you on the Getting help page?

How does it sound like it's making fun of the chinese language? Go ahead, file me if you really want to, but I think they'll just turn around and laugh.

Show me a nation that has ever had a swastika that wasnt using it to represent the Nazi party...and I mean in an active manner...

Also, you're correct. The nation in question will be watched. And should the player begin posting anything deemed offensive, the nation will be deleted. Plain and simple.

Let me put it this way: I can name a nation just about anything I want without giving grounds for deletion. However, if I make posts against the rules, it then can become grounds for deletion due to collaboration...

I actually did have a suavastika* on the flag for Phnoama when it existed. It was superimposed in the loop of an ankh, and was used as a symbol of luck, but I removed it when the swastika was banned, because someone would obviously moan about it when they saw it and cry "swastika!".



*Suavastika: flat based four pointed 'cross' resembling a swastika, but with the arms pointing anti-clockwise.

Also, you're correct. The nation in question will be watched. And should the player begin posting anything deemed offensive, the nation will be deleted. Plain and simple.

Any other questions? This, in conjunction with the FAQ, seems to solve the issue.

Thanks Neut.