NationStates Jolt Archive

I got this little message when I made this puppet, and right after it I got send to the RR. Is this legal, or am I just starting a new thread about the same ol' issue again? :?
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The Democratic States of Evilistocia
Received: 23 minutes ago The next time you come to the Pacific Region, you need to get authorization from me first. I am the only one who can do this.

Thank you for you obediance,

Czar Czargod IV of Evilstocia
Pacific Region Immigration Commander

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Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif

I believe that it's legal (by precedent), although it's highly rude.

At least my quiet little puppet is still there...

And in the interest of full disclosure:

74 minutes ago
The Free Land of Sour
I shall declare war on you

64 minutes ago
The Republic of Hiup
okay, let's go! I nuke you until you are nothing but a big hole in the ground!

Relax, that's just Pacific control-freakery. :lol:

*yawn* Same old issue. It's legal to be a dictator, or a dictator's agent.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Note that Evilistocia is not a Pacific Senator. For the record, InfernoIce is Head of the Pacific Border Control, but we do not have any such policies for screening incoming nations at the present.

I'm not sure if "Dyjdrtes" is you, Corinthe, though I suspect it is you based on the style of writing, the fact that the nation says it controls 20 regions (I certainly don't know of anyone else who can boast that), and the fact that the nation is advertising for The Central Pacific (which you have said is yours in another post).

That said, moving puppets into the region and then flooding the Civil HQ so that 9 of the 10 messages are yours is not the best way of getting attention.


Lodged From Message

39 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes Porky, I love your strategy. I have about 20 regions and their numbers are booming, while you and your sick boyfriend are just sitting enjoying to be hatred. Hahahaha!
Keep up the good work. Who wants to be delegate of a feeder region anyway?! :) You may eject me now, this puppet is just made to give this little message.

38 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes Wake up!!!!

38 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes Lol, am I allowed to post another message?!

36 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes Oh well, all you guys join "Rebels of The Pacific". Freedom and everything nice there :)

35 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes And no fat nerds there who eject everything that moves :P

32 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes All join "Rebels of The Pacific"! You be free there and one day we'll free The Pacific again !!!!

30 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes There is also a brand new place called "The Central Pacific". Just a good alternative against powerhappy nerds, who rule The Pacific now!!!!

18 minutes ago The Republic of Maecenus II Porky! Did you take a look at your inner circle yet? Oh, thanks Evilistocia for joining with us against tyranny! He is truly a friend of the Pacific now! Well, I guess we'll see how InfernoIce is doing. Hmmmm. He's been gaining endorsements now!

5 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes They all fell asleep, I guess :)

3 minutes ago The Republic of Dyjdrtes Oh well.

All join "The Central Pacific" and let's vote to make it a founder based Feeder region!

Looks like this issue has been resolved...


Not that I dislike you Corinthe, but I just wanna point out that I am becoming somewhat upset with the increasing complaints from puppets that they're ejections were unwarranted, and yet when a little bit of digging is done, we find out that such is not really the case.

If you want Mod help, I suggest putting the whole thing on the table. Just posting the information favorable to your argument will hardly curry favor with the Mods when there is evidence found that the full situation was not disclosed.

I'm not looking for favors, and I'm very sure I'll never get one in this case, but I feel that something's wrong in this situation. The fact that the mods see no reason to step in and do something means only very little to me. I was doing nothing wrong on that board, I just noticed that I was able to post and nobody banned me. If you think that I deserve a warning for talking to myself, than get it over with. It really does not change the situation of which I think is unjust. I'm not gonna repeat what I want again, but can somebody say what I did wrong now to be banned as Hiup? Maybe the word "nuke"? I don't care that Francos thinks that Dyjdrtes is mine. He did not had to quote that. If somebody would have asked me: "Is that you Corinthe?", I would have told him that. But banning every puppet that I make out of The Pacific will not make him a nicer person. I will always come back and post things in the civil HQ. Notice, I was not spamming! Just waiting until the Delegate would ban me. I promise that if he changes strategy, I will do so too. (Scout's honor :wink: )

All I ask is: "What did Hiup wrong, to be banned?!". I know that he can do that, and that's not the issue. I already stated, long time ago, that this game is losing it's apeal to me, but that's only because someone in The Pacific thinks that he owns the place, and the mods all are sure that the game is meant to be like that, or at least is more RL-like that way.

Well, my name is still Corinthe, no matter what puppet I place in The Pacific. I rather not send Corinthe there, because I'm sure he will ban her. Anyone of the mods here want to make a bet?

Question: Has anyone ever IP checked Francos to ensure all his endorsements are legal?

I suppose, Corinthe, that you missed my point.

Frankly, what happened in the Pacific was to be expected. You knew it was going to happen. The fact that you came into this forum and tried to pull the wool over everyone's eyes as to what exactly transpired prior to your puppet's expulsion from the region is hardly honorable, and is what my previous post was commenting upon.

Your puppet came here, and created a thread attempting to decieve the rest of the NON-RP forum into believing that your puppet had been unfairly ejected. The evidence which you left out and was instead provided by other nations shows that there was indeed more to the story - and not just about the puppet being yourself, but completely negating your argument that your puppet was as "innocent" as you attempted to make it appear in the first post of this thread.

Question: Has anyone ever IP checked Francos to ensure all his endorsements are legal?


Yes, a number of different Mods have, a number of different times.

I suppose, Corinthe, that you missed my point.

Frankly, what happened in the Pacific was to be expected. You knew it was going to happen. The fact that you came into this forum and tried to pull the wool over everyone's eyes as to what exactly transpired prior to your puppet's expulsion from the region is hardly honorable, and is what my previous post was commenting upon.

Your puppet came here, and created a thread attempting to decieve the rest of the NON-RP forum into believing that your puppet had been unfairly ejected. The evidence which you left out and was instead provided by other nations shows that there was indeed more to the story - and not just about the puppet being yourself, but completely negating your argument that your puppet was as "innocent" as you attempted to make it appear in the first post of this thread.

Okay, I give up. My puppet didn't do anything wrong, but I go along with it. I hereby declare the Puppet Hiup is guilty of posting messages and trolling in the civil HQ of the pacific, therefor getting herself ejected. I haven't checked on the puppet named Dyjdrtes yet, but she probably got ejected on another hour this day, for trolling on the civil HQ. It was to be expected.

I'm really trying to get somewhere, but stating that ejecting every player the the candidate sees as a threat to his position and get on with my life is not working!

I want to talk about the situation and find a solution so every player can be happy and go on with his life.

Here is my proposition: I want my (almost) main Nation Corinthe enter The Pacific and have a shot at the delegacy for only 48 hours and 24 hours to apply for membership to the UN. If I lose, I will declare openly that Francos and his minions are better players than me, and are playing fair and we should live on.
If I win, I will state that the delegate gave me a fair chance and he deserved to be honored for it. I will clear the banlist and leave the pacific and go back to my own region Eternity.
During these 48 hours of my stay in The Pacific I will not brake any rules (Spamming, trolling or flaming). I will simply go there and swap endorsements and try to win the people for my case.

During my stay, the delegate must not be allowed to eject every player that endorse me, because this will brake all the agreements we have reached when this all is happening. Anyway, This probably will trigger an invasion, but invasions are legal, right?! I probably can take over The Pacific easily in 24 hours, but I don’t want the pressure force me to do anything illegal. And I don't want to take over the place by brute force!

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

now that would be interesting, but i don't think posky will cooperate...

Here is my proposition: I want my (almost) main Nation Corinthe enter The Pacific and have a shot at the delegacy for only 48 hours and 24 hours to apply for membership to the UN. If I lose, I will declare openly that Francos and his minions are better players than me, and are playing fair and we should live on.
If I win, I will state that the delegate gave me a fair chance and he deserved to be honored for it. I will clear the banlist and leave the pacific and go back to my own region Eternity.
During these 48 hours of my stay in The Pacific I will not brake any rules (Spamming, trolling or flaming). I will simply go there and swap endorsements and try to win the people for my case.

During my stay, the delegate must not be allowed to eject every player that endorse me, because this will brake all the agreements we have reached when this all is happening. Anyway, This probably will trigger an invasion, but invasions are legal, right?! I probably can take over The Pacific easily in 24 hours, but I don’t want the pressure force me to do anything illegal. And I don't want to take over the place by brute force!

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Are you serious?

Heck, then can I make the same demands on an attempt for Europe? Or the Heartland? Area 51? Canada? The other Pacifics? Any other large region?

Heck, then can I make the same demands on an attempt for Europe? Or the Heartland? Area 51? Canada? The other Pacifics? Any other large region?

Point?

Actually everybody is free to challenge a delegate in one of my regios. I am no coward!

I just want to ease the tension, but if this is your official answer, I am very dissapointed. I'll just create another puppet again.

I see this case as something special, and just want to challenge to a fair duel for delegacy of The Pacific. I just want to mods watch the happenings and call a winner. A duel for delegacy would add some spice to it.

Heck, then can I make the same demands on an attempt for Europe? Or the Heartland? Area 51? Canada? The other Pacifics? Any other large region?

Point?

My point is that if you want to take a region, you have to do it just like anyone else attempting to take any other region. What on earth makes that region so important that we should completely rework the rules just to give you an advantage?

My point is that if you want to take a region, you have to do it just like anyone else attempting to take any other region. What on earth makes that region so important that we should completely rework the rules just to give you an advantage?

Lol, this is asking for a very complicated answer, and I just bought some brand new computer games to install and play. Give me some time. Let's say 2 days, to give you a complete list of what's so special about a Feeder Region ruled by a group of players who don't care if other people have fun with their brand new created nations, or not. I'll get back on you.

And btw, the advantage is only that I have no people on my banlist, though I already own an almost 90 Nation region. The max sentence for spamming is 2 weeks on my banlist, and I only complained once to the moderators, which time I regret very.

Let me make a complete list of what's so special about the situation. I'll get back on this soon.

Here is my proposition: I want my (almost) main Nation Corinthe enter The Pacific and have a shot at the delegacy for only 48 hours and 24 hours to apply for membership to the UN. If I lose, I will declare openly that Francos and his minions are better players than me, and are playing fair and we should live on.
If I win, I will state that the delegate gave me a fair chance and he deserved to be honored for it. I will clear the banlist and leave the pacific and go back to my own region Eternity.
During these 48 hours of my stay in The Pacific I will not brake any rules (Spamming, trolling or flaming). I will simply go there and swap endorsements and try to win the people for my case.

During my stay, the delegate must not be allowed to eject every player that endorse me, because this will brake all the agreements we have reached when this all is happening. Anyway, This probably will trigger an invasion, but invasions are legal, right?! I probably can take over The Pacific easily in 24 hours, but I don’t want the pressure force me to do anything illegal. And I don't want to take over the place by brute force!

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Well since it's NFL season, how about a nice football analogy.

"I can't score any points against your defense, so why don't you take them off the field for 1 quarter and see if I can score then. If I win, I promise I'll say good things about your team in Sports Illustrated. "

:roll:

Hey, if you're looking for a gentleman's end to this, talk to The Savage Lands. About two weeks ago, I proposed to him that we resolve this matter with a game of chess, where the winner would get the Pacific and the loser would give up ambitions of power in the region, but he said he only knew checkers... :?

chess? :roll:
what's the fun in that? ;)

anyway, even savage would've agreed, you wouldn't be rid of the rest of us, if he would've lost, you know that, don't you?

Um, I gotta go with Hack and Existential Blues on this one. You have every right to make the same bid for delegacy that Francos made ;)

It's not anyone's fault that Francos wasn't ejected before he became Delegate other than the former Delegate's.

Trying to say that changing the rules to suit the more vocal side is fair is extremely flawed, and I just wish that you could see that. I've been attempting to stress this point in my last few posts on this issue, and yet you take what I say as a personal affront, rather than read what I am saying.

My point is that if you want to take a region, you have to do it just like anyone else attempting to take any other region. What on earth makes that region so important that we should completely rework the rules just to give you an advantage?

Either you didn’t understand my motives, or you don’t trust me. I have no plans of taking over the region. All I want is give it back to all the NationStates players, so they can fight each other again for delegacy. Right now there is a status quo where three players control all what happens in The Pacific. When a player has more power than all players in The Pacific combined, that’s GodModding in my book. All the delegate has to do is count the endorsements of the other players, check how busy they are every day and eject the ones that are gathering endorsements. Mind you, he just have to put them in his dossier to keep track of them easily. This way he gets a bunch of followers that are not very active, or don’t understand how that endorsement thing works.

This far it isn’t extremely unfair, but now comes the tricky part: He has no powers to password the region, so he must find another way of protecting himself. He keeps track of every new player in the region, especially the ones that are UN member. All he has to do is check the UN page, or every new player that comes into the region. New player from another region, who are UN member get ejected immediately. New UN members that were already in the region have to endorse him or get booted. I don’t care if he threatens them first or not. That doesn’t matter much. This looks very elaborate to you, but for someone who has no life, it’s actually fun to do. It gives him a purpose in life, and he has an advantage above people who have to work every day or go to school and have homework like me.

You probably skipped all the above, but nevermind. Someday, someone will read it and begin to see the light.

What’s so special about a feeder region like The Pacific anyway:

1: Many newbies start there and want to learn the game. They try to communicate and learn to endorse people. It’s the frontdoor of NationStates. There will be determined if they like the game or just forget about it again. They could be our friends or our enemies. Sending them to the RR is not very welcome. My first nation GroeneWoud came in existence in The Pacific, so I still feel attached to that place. I guess Moderators don’t have such feelings.

2: Francos and his minions made a mockery of what all fair players believe in. He found a way to keep the region under control so no player will ever be able to retake it. We know that one day the delegate will become tired of all that work to keep it, but it is deciding to the actions his successor will take, if he ever get hold of another feeder region. It would be better if the region could be taken over in an arbitrated showdown. I believe that if Thedoc ever gets the chance to take it back, he will use this knowledge and do the same as Francos and his minions are doing now. To make sure another Francos will never return, will he say. No disrespect intended.

3: Every player wants a shot at the delegacy in The Pacific. My nation Jong Groen has been ejected a while ago, just for having more than 50 endorsements. Jong Groen never talked, but was just quietly gathering endorsements. From that moment I decided that trolling the civil HQ was a better strategy, and make a new puppet, if it gets ejected. Actually I have decided that going there with a UN member would be a waste of time. The ban list is growing with at least 25 trolling puppets every day, because we are frustrated. Knowing that the banlist is that long, and that the delegate have no intentions to clear it, makes us angry. We are humans, just like him! We deserve to be treated fairly. Let this mockery of our playing capabilities stop now!

I guess this will all be fruitless, but I won’t stop this until the delegate gives me a fair chance to get my endorsements there. I don’t play chess, I just want to play NationStates on a nice and fair way. If I would play the games at my home like Francos and his minions does, nobody wanted to play with me anymore. Nobody likes to play with someone who just found a winning strategy, and uses it over and over again.

Corinthe.

I don't see how you can consider this Godmodding. Francos has no more power than any other delegate in the game (actually less than most since he can't p/w the region).

The Pacifics weren't designed to be "home" regions. New nations have to start somewhere. N00bs aren't the ones getting sent to the RR. It's all the puppets of potential invaders that are getting sent away. Last time I checked, protecting your political position was legal in this game. This is not "making a mockery of the system", it's following the rules.

Every player HAS a shot at becomming delegate in the Pacific. You just need to learn to play a little better. If you're getting beat at a game, crying about the rules probably won't accomplish anything. Study the situation, figure it out for yourself. I'm not gonna give you the blueprint on how to beat him. It's not all that difficult.

As far as the ban list being so big, you gave the reason yourself.
The ban list is growing with at least 25 trolling puppets every day
You are causing the very problem you're complaining about. :roll:

And, once again, I offer up the concept of seige craft. Francos is in the position of strength, being the defender. You can either continue to flail against the walls hopelessly, with you tactics seemingly limited to making numerous puppets that get banned, and then trying to use that as proof of him griefing.

OR, you can sit down and think, and use some unconvential, but still legal, tactics. So far, I have seen all of 2 players figure out what I've been hinting at for weeks. Everyone else seems to prefer the previous methods, which have been rather soundly proven to not work.\

Or, gee, maybe one of those "hundreds" of banned nations might take up chess.

Sigh... the most vocal ones may or may not be planning.

who's to say this isn't a smoke screen?

re reads some of the posts...

okay bad suggestion....

but don't suggest that the most vocal people in these threads are the only ones.

and once again i would like to say that the concept of 'feeder region' is one i had to develop myself. i was never told that the sp was a feeder.. i wouldn't have understood if you'd told me. *shrug* like i said, i liked it; i stayed. i didn't see anything wrong with that.

in my capacity as the vp south pacific, i see it as my duty to help the newbies along. in fact. i feel comfortable saying that for the whole cabinet. one of the new things i'm developing is gettign the word out to the newbies that the sp is a feeder region... and explaining what that is. but i haven't started yet as i'm not happy with my results....

perhaps this can be added to the intro to the game? or if it's there made more prominant?

thx.
bisty - 'i will be good... i will be good... i will be good...'

Sigh... the most vocal ones may or may not be planning.

but don't suggest that the most vocal people in these threads are the only ones. i for one have been quite vocal and have not found that i couldn't plan at the same time. (but even that's a reapeat. slacker, you give the best quotes....)

and once again i would like to say that the concept of 'feeder region' is one i had to develop myself. i was never told that the sp was a feeder.. i wouldn't have understood if you'd told me. *shrug* like i said, i liked it; i stayed. i didn't see anything wrong with that.

in my capacity as the vp south pacific, i see it as my duty to help the newbies along. in fact. i feel comfortable saying that for the whole cabinet. one of the new things i'm developing is gettign the word out to the newbies that the sp is a feeder region... and explaining what that is. but i haven't started yet as i'm not happy with my results....

perhaps this can be added to the intro to the game? or if it's there made more prominant?

thx.
bisty - 'i will be good... i will be good... i will be good...'

Um, so what on earth is so hard about starting one's own region? When I first played the game as a noob, I think I was in the Pacific for all of thirty seconds before I made my own. Then you can play by your own rules.

Here's another argument for Francos...

How many people actually gave him a chance before they started nailing his behind to the wall? I mean, really gave him a fair chance at being a non-dictatorial delegate?

Since Thedoc lost the Delegate position, there have been trolling puppets created and/or moved to The Pacific with the intent of disrupting any possibility of peace under Francos' reign...

Remember, this started out as a mere, what, 10-15 ejections that later escalated due to the extensive use of the "Create a Nation" link by those clamoring for his removal. There is not a ban list 300+ nations long just because Francos is a dictator...it's more like: There's a ban list 300+ nations wrong because players were trolling the region and attempting to get Francos in trouble with the Mods.

Am I the only one that's noticed that all the arguments against Francos center around "he's a bad delegate because he ejects trolling puppets" when no one even gave him a chance to begin with?

I'm not looking for favors, and I'm very sure I'll never get one in this case, but I feel that something's wrong in this situation. The fact that the mods see no reason to step in and do something means only very little to me. I was doing nothing wrong on that board, I just noticed that I was able to post and nobody banned me. If you think that I deserve a warning for talking to myself, than get it over with. It really does not change the situation of which I think is unjust. I'm not gonna repeat what I want again, but can somebody say what I did wrong now to be banned as Hiup? Maybe the word "nuke"? I don't care that Francos thinks that Dyjdrtes is mine. He did not had to quote that. If somebody would have asked me: "Is that you Corinthe?", I would have told him that. But banning every puppet that I make out of The Pacific will not make him a nicer person. I will always come back and post things in the civil HQ. Notice, I was not spamming! Just waiting until the Delegate would ban me. I promise that if he changes strategy, I will do so too. (Scout's honor :wink: )

All I ask is: "What did Hiup wrong, to be banned?!". I know that he can do that, and that's not the issue. I already stated, long time ago, that this game is losing it's apeal to me, but that's only because someone in The Pacific thinks that he owns the place, and the mods all are sure that the game is meant to be like that, or at least is more RL-like that way.

Well, my name is still Corinthe, no matter what puppet I place in The Pacific. I rather not send Corinthe there, because I'm sure he will ban her. Anyone of the mods here want to make a bet?

No offence at all. But you have been here for a while, and it is always said to see the inevitable frustration with something in the game. I ask you keep your head. And if The Pacific begins to frustrate you so much you can hardly find the game playable, I ask you to find a region. It is one out of how many? I just hate to see you take one issue and escalate it beyond what you can contribute to the game, or what the game has to offer to you.

So, take a breather, and remember not is this only a game, this is a game.


Also, and not just to you. The non-Rping forums should be seen as for players, not just for nations. Once you begin to use nations as a tool in the Tech or Mod forum, you step over a barely touched on rule. You begin a form of role playing in a forum intended on players being able to deal with issues, not just the nation you are Rping with. In that, I think I certain amount of honest disclosure is expected, if not always explicit.

Here is my proposition: I want my (almost) main Nation Corinthe enter The Pacific and have a shot at the delegacy for only 48 hours and 24 hours to apply for membership to the UN. If I lose, I will declare openly that Francos and his minions are better players than me, and are playing fair and we should live on.
If I win, I will state that the delegate gave me a fair chance and he deserved to be honored for it. I will clear the banlist and leave the pacific and go back to my own region Eternity.
During these 48 hours of my stay in The Pacific I will not brake any rules (Spamming, trolling or flaming). I will simply go there and swap endorsements and try to win the people for my case.

During my stay, the delegate must not be allowed to eject every player that endorse me, because this will brake all the agreements we have reached when this all is happening. Anyway, This probably will trigger an invasion, but invasions are legal, right?! I probably can take over The Pacific easily in 24 hours, but I don’t want the pressure force me to do anything illegal. And I don't want to take over the place by brute force!

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

My response to this is: Who the "F" do you think you are?

I mean, c'mon. You're asking the Mods, once again, to change the rules simply because they dont frikin suit you at this point in time.

I hate to point this out, Neut, but her suggestion is awful close to the one you made once upon a time...

Then again, that one was disregarded as well. *shrugs*

My response to this is: Who the "F" do you think you are?

I mean, c'mon. You're asking the Mods, once again, to change the rules simply because they dont frikin suit you at this point in time.

I'm tech, I rarely step out of my role, but this has just gone too far.

I'm with Neut on this one. We are not about to go changing the rules upon request. That has been our policy since the beginning of this "issue" and will remain it. We only take action against players who have actually broken the rules, and we do not bend the rules for anyone, and certainly not upon request.

As moderators it is our job to make sure this site and game run smoothly. The moment that we start playing favorites or doing favors, things will start going to hell. You think it is bad with the accusations we hear daily? Just wait until there is a seed of truth to their claims.

I have followed this debate with the Pacific and I must admit that it has depressed me, and at times, sickened me. It has been said many times "People get the government they deserve." Well, guess what, you elected Poskrebyshev. You don't like it? Kick him out! He has 97 endorsements out of a region of almost 5,000. Just organize and don't come complaining to us.

Look this is a political game, EXPECT THERE TO BE POLITICS, and don't go appealing to a higher power just because it doesn't your way, we don't exist in the in game world.

Now please, either do something, or just stop complaining, I'm really getting tired of this.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
A very Tired Tech Modling

I hate to point this out, Neut, but her suggestion is awful close to the one you made once upon a time...

Then again, that one was disregarded as well. *shrugs*

I take it you didnt feel comfortable mentioning the difference there. Cornithe was not the delegate who lost endorsements due to a bug deleting her nation, now was she? Challenging the Mods in an attempt to remove a legal delegate is quite different from a Nation that was Delegate, had his nation deleted by a bug, and then a Mod asked that he be allowed to regain his endorsements. If it were any of you, you'd want the same damn request made by the Mods as the request I made.


GOOD GOD what does it take to get you people to understand that you are the invaders. Not the defenders. You never were the defenders, you just try to portray yourselves that way in an attempt to curry favor with the Mods - and then bitch when it doesnt work.

My response to this is: Who the "F" do you think you are?


Hey now. I've stayed out of this because I actually agree with the mods on this issue, but that was a bit uncalled for.

Hey now. I've stayed out of this because I actually agree with the mods on this issue, but that was a bit uncalled for.

Ok, so it was a bit rude, however, I fully sympathise with him. We're all getting a bit fed up by the sh*t we're getting about this, especially requests for special treatment.

It's things like this that make me look at the ex-mods with real understanding.

So many votes against me, and non of them really bothered to really answer my argument. Time to lock the topic and draw my conclusions. I'm just glad that I don't have to pay for this game. Lol, some of the mods are even flaming at me. An asteriks in a flame doesn't change it's contend. It only changes how the word looks like.

Aargghhh, forgot to take my locks with me. Oh well, now I just have to wait until a mod tells me the the "Sh*" and "F*" words were not flames but actually arguments defending the case and were definitely not personally directed at me.

I hate to point this out, Neut, but her suggestion is awful close to the one you made once upon a time...

Then again, that one was disregarded as well. *shrugs*

I take it you didnt feel comfortable mentioning the difference there. Cornithe was not the delegate who lost endorsements due to a bug deleting her nation, now was she? Challenging the Mods in an attempt to remove a legal delegate is quite different from a Nation that was Delegate, had his nation deleted by a bug, and then a Mod asked that he be allowed to regain his endorsements. If it were any of you, you'd want the same damn request made by the Mods as the request I made.


GOOD GOD what does it take to get you people to understand that you are the invaders. Not the defenders. You never were the defenders, you just try to portray yourselves that way in an attempt to curry favor with the Mods - and then bitch when it doesnt work.

I seriously have to agree with that bit in Bold, half of hte problem in the pacific, and a big half of that is the people going in trying to disrupt and cause trouble, and yes Franco is booting a lot of folks, well, a lot of those I have seen him boot are folks who come in and say Down with Franco, or som other attempt to cause trouble, well that is just my 2¢ I have my own "Fan club" to deal with right now, they're so cute though,

So far, I have seen all of 2 players figure out what I've been hinting at for weeks.

And as I've pointed out before, this method was attempted even before Francos Spain was deleted. After losing about 10 endorsements it further failed, because for it to work is to assume the delegate will mindlessly keep kicking out his own endorsement-givers without ever wondering what's going on. It'll work great when trying to overthrow an idiot, but it should be clear that's not the case here.

Despite her ridiculous request for Mod intervention, Corinthe is right about one thing: as long as the Troika is willing to continue going through the motions they'll never be removed from power. They'd have to mess up really bad for that to happen. In a feeder region, the sole right to endorsement-swap is an insurmountable advantage if the delegate is willing to play hardball like that.

Look this is a political game, EXPECT THERE TO BE POLITICS

I'd *LIKE* for there to be more politics in this game. Sadly, having Mods confuse the game mechanic of blind endorsement-swapping to be something political isn't really promising in making this happen in the future.

Ballotonia

And as I've pointed out before, this method was attempted even before Francos Spain was deleted. After losing about 10 endorsements it further failed, because for it to work is to assume the delegate will mindlessly keep kicking out his own endorsement-givers without ever wondering what's going on.

Then, eventually, someone else would be in power...

Here's another argument for Francos...

How many people actually gave him a chance before they started nailing his behind to the wall? I mean, really gave him a fair chance at being a non-dictatorial delegate?

Geee... I dunno... May be because his FIRST action was ban 100+ NATIVES that posed a threat to his rule? Here went his chance.

Am I the only one that's noticed that all the arguments against Francos center around "he's a bad delegate because he ejects trolling puppets" when no one even gave him a chance to begin with?
Let's try this: "He is a bad delegate because he started his rule by mass-ejecting natives, and now he is ejecting newbies and former-native puppets that he perceives as a threat."

I mean, c'mon. You're asking the Mods, once again, to change the rules simply because they dont frikin suit you at this point in time.

I'm with Neut on this one. We are not about to go changing the rules upon request. That has been our policy since the beginning of this "issue" and will remain it. We only take action against players who have actually broken the rules, and we do not bend the rules for anyone, and certainly not upon request.

I want you to enforce the rules. I want a founder in the Pacifics. Someone responsible for them, that can back or reject the actions of the UND before the eyes of all involved nations, not just the UN members. If there had been a founder assigned to the Pacific, none of this would have happened. It would have been resolved at regional level and without fuss.

I have made this comment several times, but up til now, I haven't seen this addressed. If there are technical reasons for the Feeders not having a founder, well, tough for you. The "chain of command" ends in the Mods and not in the Founder, as the RULES say. You see:

No Founder = No "owner" = No responsible = Special case = Special rules

See?

GOOD GOD what does it take to get you people to understand that you are the invaders. Not the defenders. You never were the defenders, you just try to portray yourselves that way in an attempt to curry favor with the Mods - and then bitch when it doesnt work.

We were not. At the very beginning we were NATIVES from the Pacific, and we got booted without reason. But you are right, we never were defenders. We were DEFENSELESS. We still are.

And as I've pointed out before, this method was attempted even before Francos Spain was deleted. After losing about 10 endorsements it further failed, because for it to work is to assume the delegate will mindlessly keep kicking out his own endorsement-givers without ever wondering what's going on.

Then, eventually, someone else would be in power...

Well, they're not as stupid as you think. It's the invasion army trying to pull a stunt like that which is getting kicked.

Put more bluntly: the rules allow the delegate of a feeder region to kick out any and all UN members who does not endorse the delegate. All of them. It takes a minimal amount of effort to reduce that number to a lower number which is also sufficient to maintain power.

The only possibility left that I see is an assault by an invasion force of (currently) about 100+ nations. And even then it's a matter of prayer that the delegate isn't there to quickly and decisively stop it.

Ballotonia

Just to further my point...


Here is my proposition:

(Snip naive proposal)

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Heck, then can I make the same demands on an attempt for Europe? Or the Heartland? Area 51? Canada? The other Pacifics? Any other large region?

Let's see:

Europe: Founder? Schumania. Check.
Heartland: Founder? Ineptia. Check.
Area 51: Founder? Labrador. Check.

No need for mod intervention in case of UND abuse there. Either the founder approves or the UND gets banned him/herself.

Canada: Founder? NO. Special Case. Feeder? If there had been a founder there, his/her name would appear in black, as ex-nation.

The other Pacifics: Founder? NO. Special case.

Any other large region: Size doesn't matter. If it has a founder, normal rules apply.

The problem of having a Founder in any of the feeder regions is that such a special position means an enormous guaranteed vote-base. Basically, the Founder would end up being the delegate with impunity. Basically the same problem as there is now in The Pacific, but it would mean less effort on the part of the Founder to maintain that position.

Just imagine (as example) Francos Spain as Founder of The Pacific. Get the picture?

I think the 'open environment' you seem to aim for (my interpretation) can be achieved by not having banning options in the feeder regions, much like things are in the RR.

Ballotonia

Vote-base?

A founder doesn't need to be UN member. Actually, a honest Founder for the feeder regions would not be UN member, to avoid temptations. That doesn't mean he can't have a puppet (or main) nation with UN member status.

And the non-banning in feeders is also a good idea, if a founder cannot be placed there.

Hey, if you're looking for a gentleman's end to this, talk to The Savage Lands. About two weeks ago, I proposed to him that we resolve this matter with a game of chess, where the winner would get the Pacific and the loser would give up ambitions of power in the region, but he said he only knew checkers... :?

Oh I'd love to play a game a chess with you. :twisted:

My record is 135 and 10. I have two state championships and a regional 2nd place award.

You guys completely miss the point...yet AGAIN.


WHAT part of "vote-swapping is indeed alive and well in today's political world" and "Francos began by ejecting immediate threats, then began ejecting their NEWLY created puppets, not just 300+ nations" (btw, those puppets were created for trolling the region, and this trend has continued throughout this entire issue. WHY do you think the Mods really dont care that there's over 300+ ejected nations? 3/4 of them were created specificaly to troll The Pacific)

You were not defenseless. Your former delegate failed you. It's not Francos' fault that Thedoc didnt eject him. Rather, it's Thedoc's fault that Francos wasnt ejected. NO ONE HAS GIVEN FRANCOS A FAIR CHANCE.


It's been hinted at before, and as you can tell, seeing the same arguments time and again concerning this issue is becoming quite an annoyance. Maybe if you'd read the posts by all the Mods, you'd understand something. But I guess that would require actually thinking and developing an opinion on the issue, for yourself, rather than just jumping on a bandwagon.

If you dont have anything new to add to this discussion, dont post. Flat out. Dont post unless you're bringing a NEW argument to the table.

You guys completely miss the point...yet AGAIN.

From my viewpoint, you're the one who doesn't comprehend. At least I'm trying to explain my side of things to you, you just fire back with one-liners and lots of ";)". Cute, but it's not something one can use to convince me. I'll take an actual argument, thank you.

WHAT part of "vote-swapping is indeed alive and well in today's political world" [...]

I presume you intended to finish that run-on sentence with something like 'do you people not understand?'.

And, yes, vote-swapping surely is alive in the political world, when voting on multiple bills (you support my bill, I support yours). Not when deciding on the outcome of ONE election. Please let me know when was the last time a US President vote-swapped his way into the White House, hm? They make campaign promises, sure, but Francos never had a campaign and never made promises I've heard of.

Especially in a feeder region, the notion of interpreting vote swapping as 'I scratch your back you scratch mine' is inaccurate, as one party (the n00b, or whomever isn't delegate at that moment) isn't actually getting anything in return for the swap. They just don't understand, because they're just unfamiliair with the game. While people unaware of how things work are a problem in any region, it's only a really huge problem when one puts thousands of these people together and subsequently insist on interpreting their action of swapping an endorsement as something that actually has any political significance.

Rather, it's Thedoc's fault that Francos wasnt ejected. NO ONE HAS GIVEN FRANCOS A FAIR CHANCE.

Actually, TheDoc gave Francos a chance, didn't he? And with the lock-in a feeder-region delegate can force, one chance is all it takes.

If you dont have anything new to add to this discussion, dont post. Flat out. Dont post unless you're bringing a NEW argument to the table.

I know this is gonna sound rude, but I'd like to request you to take your own advice here. I'm also quite annoyed at people replying to me pretending they've actually responded to my arguments, while in fact they haven't.

Ballotonia

We have, you just dont like the responses.