NationStates Jolt Archive

I am the founder of Blue Moon. One of our residents decided to crash a region called Euroaisa using UN multis.

This is wrong and I accept that. However the mods wrote this,

"Password removed. Blue Moon, you're ours now."

I have never seen the mods say something like that about a region as though they are going to target us.

This of course caused mass panic in Blue Moon. People were worried and our forums were packed with questions on what to do. We even considered to evacuate the whole region. My t-gram box could not handle the worries.

I feel the mods have acted in a irresponsible manner. They should have given us a stern warning. I would like an apoligy from the mods for making this game unplayable for a couple of days..

Many Thanks

Seems all like a big joke to me :)
Are you sure it was a mod? You are very vague about that. Which mod was is, or was it just a "NationStates Moderators" warning? Is it April fools day in your country now? :?
I would not worry about it, but UN multying is a serious offence. Think about it. It is even an deletable offence, if used for griefing.

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Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif

I looked back through the moderator log but failed to find anything concerning Blue Moon (at least, as far back as my marathon tasklist session last night). Approximately when did this post occur?

And for the record, if one of the squad did post that, it is out of line, however, the squad's frustration with that region is understandable- we have checked it for UN multies on at least 3 seperate occasions following complaints from players about griefing invasions, and have turned up multies every single time.

I will look further back in the moderator log, but until I find anything in the log to back up this claim, no formal apology will be issued.

~Evil Empress Rep Prod the Game Mod

May I ask some questions? What are UN multies? And what is a griefing invasion?

May I ask some questions? What are UN multies? And what is a griefing invasion?

UN multies are nations that are all in the UN but belong to one player (or rather, one computer, since we can't verify how many people play from any one computer). It is against the rules to have more than one nation in the UN, as that skews the voting for everything- proposals, regional delegates, etc.

An invasion is when a bunch of nations all move to a region and endorse eachother to seize the delegateship. This in itself is perfectly legal. A griefing invasion is when the invader griefs the natives of the region- kicking and banning a large number of people, passwording the region, using UN multies, or in the worst case scenario, booting all the nations out, passwording the region, and leaving it to be deleted in the daily update. Participating in a griefing invasion is a deletable offense.

May I ask some questions? What are UN multies? And what is a griefing invasion?

UN multies are more than one nation in the UN, while all on the same IP adress. A griefing invasion is when a bunch of UN members enter a region, install a UN delegate of their own, and than eject everyone that was in the regio before they entered. That is bad, but a perfect griefing attack is when after the attack the Delegate passwords the region, so original natives can't return anymore. Most of the time, the griefers leave the region than, and let it vanish into oblivion.

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Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif

I understand that he just confessed?

I understand that he just confessed?

It is an open secret. He frequently writes how he wants Blue Moon to be famous for its griefing activities. He has had numerous high-profile failures, but a few successes. The problem is, achieving that kind of notoriety is difficult without actually breaking the rules. Also, with the region being so large, he has little control over what other members do on their own initiative. Thus any nations who choose to serve Blue Moon must run the risk of catching fall-out. It is not the policy of the Moderators to indulge in collective punishment, but in a serious enough case, that may be the only sensible course of action. That is, if Blue Moon and its member nations outlive their usefulness to the game and become a source of gratuitous trouble.

Let's check this out a tad closer...

I am the founder of Blue Moon. One of our residents decided to crash a region called Euroaisa using UN multis.

Not quite. The region's name is Eurasia (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=eurasia), and the region was left passworded. An offense, yes, but relatively minor. I've seen much worse rule violations by Blue Moon.

This is what the Mod left on the message board. It's still there:
3 days ago
NationStates Moderators
Password removed. Blue Moon, you're ours now.

Personally, I think this was more in relation to what was done to another region just prior to that. In region Italia (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_region/region=italia), Blue Moon banned some natives, left them on the banlist, password-locked the region, and left. Leaving only a few idle non-UN nations behind. Fortunately, the natives there managed to recover from the griefing attack.

I'd like to point to part of the entry on the Regional Happenings in Eurasia:
6 days ago: The Holy Empire of Maine Road departed this region for Blue Moon
6 days ago: The Holy Empire of Maine Road arrived from Mercia.
and note there's no word of Maine Road complaining about the griefing done in the name of Blue Moon, but only about the behaviour of the Mods in reaction to said griefing.

Ballotonia

This is an agregious act. I hope the mods drop whatever bombs they need on Blue Moon. Invaders like that, who so blatantly cheat, give decent rule abiding invaders (i know, sounds llike an oxy moron) a bad name. :evil:

This is an agregious act. I hope the mods drop whatever bombs they need on Blue Moon. Invaders like that, who so blatantly cheat, give decent rule abiding invaders (i know, sounds llike an oxy moron) a bad name. :evil:
This is precisely the point. Almost every time they stage an operation, they break the rules, and their leadership can hardly claim to be ignorant of that. Plus it is not part of any recognised RP, freely entered into or otherwise. Just griefing for its own sake.

Why exactly shouldn't the Mods keep a close eye on regions that spawn griefers and cheaters? :?:

This is an agregious act. I hope the mods drop whatever bombs they need on Blue Moon. Invaders like that, who so blatantly cheat, give decent rule abiding invaders (i know, sounds llike an oxy moron) a bad name. :evil:
This is precisely the point. Almost every time they stage an operation, they break the rules, and their leadership can hardly claim to be ignorant of that. Plus it is not part of any recognised RP, freely entered into or otherwise. Just griefing for its own sake.


I would like to defend my region here. I had no knowledge of the Eurasia incident. ONE of our nations used mutis to invade it. I had no knowledge of this as the rest of Blue Moon didnt. I dont have UN multis myself and only a handful of nations in Blue Moon have used the multis which I have warned them of the consequences. I am just upset that the mods wroete such a worrying message as though we were going to singled out for rough treatment.
We have alot of nice nations in Blue Moon that are merely looking for something fun to do. They were really terrified that the mods wrote such a message

Okay, I've no particular problem with Maine Road but I bump into his compatriots very often. The problem with region crashing is that it attracts nations more likely to cheat and flame, not all crashers but a sizable chunk if not the majority.

Given the fact that in a big invasion at least one of his allies is quite likely to cheat or flame the chances are that it will end up being a griefing.

The question is how widely should the Mods hold teams of players responsible, I have seen several players’ nations deleted because a couple had multis.

It seems reasonable to me that as in all team sports you mete out punishment to the whole team when consistently they have cheating players.

I disagree. Being a sort of leader myself, all a leader of a region a gather people like minded. However he can't control what his people do. If the MOD's posted something like that then they must have had a reason. That reason should have been stated vice putting down such a statement.

I think region crasher need to releize something. The Mods, rules and a pretty well organized defence network is working against you. You guys need to be on top of your game. This means play by the rules (even though they slant against you). Its possiable. But you need to be organized.

I believe that those who choose to play the game as region crashers should realize that there's a substantial possibility that this behaviour results in rules being broken. Dealing with this properly requires showing responsibility from the region's leadership:

+ Remind fellow invaders what the rules are, and that they should not break them.

+ Discuss before the invasion what to do (and NOT to do) before, during, but most importantly after the invasion. What do you do with the region once you have delegacy?

+ Accept responsibilty when things go wrong anyway:
- Don't hesitate to break off an invasion when griefing occurs.
- Punish the offender for ruining the groups efforts. Note this can include filing a Mod Report yourself, especially when mass ejections occur!
- Communicate to the victims of the griefing. Explain your legal intentions, what went wrong and why, and appologize on behalf of your group.

So, a tactic such as recently used by Blue Moon in the attempted invasion of Mercia in which the Regional Happenings was spammed in order to 'hide' the entry of Maine Road into that region should be recognized for the illegal activity it is, and not be used ever again. I know this is in MrNonchalant's (ACC) manual on how to execute an invasion, and that Blue Moon bases their operations at least in part on that document, but it's still illegal. (suggestion: delete that document. It's even tactically crap so you'll be doing yourselves more than one favor)

Ballotonia

That pretty much says it all.

Ballotonia you'd be a good invader leader :wink:

I am still wating for a formal apoligy for the chaos caused in Blue Moon. Even if I was on here day and night I still could not control over 90 people. Reploid Productions I am awaiting an apoligy from you once you have checked this log.

I will also do my best to follow Ballotonia's good advice :)

i on the other hand do have a problem with Maine Road. In 007 B&BB where I was defending (with many others) I received a vague and threatening Tm from them that I had better unendorse the del and endorse their gur or else. There was another Tm that was also threatening that I forget. Well these are vague, and not of interest because I did not report them. They do speak to the character of the nation in question however. It does not surprise me that Blue Moon does not take credit for the griefing or cheating that goes on under their noses and which they claim to know nothing about. As a defender I see this as common fare for griefers, its right up there with calling the defenders crashers and generally trying to confuse the subject. It is my personal belief that the actions inside the crasher regions are condoned and suppoerted from top down. The leaders of these regions are generally so dictatorial that if they did not support the actions they would not exist. Some of this is subjective, but it is through experience that these conclusions are borne, not guess work.

Well as I said, I cannot control 90 people that live on the other side of the world. I had no knowledge that people were sending threatening t-grams. Maybe you should not interfere with people that can play the mods and get you deleted as crashers when you are defending.

I still await an apoligy. I apoligised once for my mistake if you remember and I expect you to show the same strong character to admit that you were wrong.

If I sent the same message to another delegate that the mods sent us i dont think we would be defended by the NS population as the mods are now :(

Well, you could post an anti-griefing message in your world factbook entry.

Republic of Spoffin
Mercia Resident

Good idea. Although that will not stop people in my region doing it.

I am still looking for a FORMAL apoligy

I am still looking for a FORMAL apoligy

I must warn you, if you continue demanding for an apoligy of the mods, you might get something else, that you will not like.
I have experience with angering the mods, so please listen to me. You can always send an E-mail to [violet], if you don't think that I might be right.
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Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.
The getting help section! (http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=help) (for all your gaming problems)http://www.nationstates.net/forum/templates/subSilver/images/whosonline.gif

Do you really need that? Is your pride at that level that you need that to be pacified? My recomendation is simplt to move on. But hey, thats just my 2/100 of a standard US unit of curency.

Yeah I agree I will move on. The mods dont like Blue Moon as it is so I better shut up.

However I would like to thank you all on your advice on this matter. Should the mods apoligise I would be most grateful.

Good idea. Although that will not stop people in my region doing it.

But it would clearly show where you stand on griefing. And give everyone in your region a clear explaination about rule breaking and acceptable tactics. You would then have some precedent for ejecting members who later grief, they would have no "I didn't know the rules" excuse.

It would also re-enforce your current message: "To shake things up a bit" (ie: making the game more interesting rather than unpleasant) and remove any conceptions about Blue Moon being seen as a griefing region.

I totally agree. I will make a stand in the factbook entry. I am fed up of the rest of NS seeing Blue Moon as a bunch of cheats because of a few indivduals

Greetings and welcome to Blue Moon. If you are looking to meet new friends or maybe a bit of action(we have seen alot over the last week) then this is the place for you! If we invade we do it in a legal manner. If anyone is using UN multis then they will be ejected. The Mods dont particulary like us but dont be put off!!! Adventure awaits in the most controversial region in Nationstates! We now have a new forum now. Its at "regionbluemoon.proboards21.com". Use your nation names please so we know who you are.

Well, let's see if they stick to it. No spammers for a start.

YAY!!

City Fans...I'm TMing you Maine Road to see if I can move one of my puppets in...If that's ok :D

My humblest apologies.

I am a fool.

--Scolopendra

---Post deleted by NationStates Moderators---

Maine Road was the griefer. Nobody has seemed to notice this part of Ballotonia's first post in this thread. It wasn't "some other nation I had no control over."

That part merely indicates he dropped by in Eurasia, and hence highly likely knew his region members were invading it. With 9000 regions the odds are a bit low for that to be a coincidence. Maine Road doesn't move around like the NationStates Bunny, after all. So my point was: he can't reasonably claim ignorance. That's not the same as claiming he actively participated, which I did not claim.

Ballotonia

You can control the small number of nations who answer your summons. I find it hard to believe that you don't brief your players before and after an action.

If you could put together a force of ninety players you'd be a lot more successful at region crashing then you are.

My humblest apologies.

I am a fool.

--Scolopendra


Theres a good mod. Sarcasm or not it will be shown on our msg boards.

You think I'm being sarcastic?

I'm an idiot, plain and simple.

I have a bad habit of saying whatever I think is true at the time. If that classifies as sarcasm, so be it.

--Scolo

That part merely indicates he dropped by in Eurasia, and hence highly likely knew his region members were invading it. With 9000 regions the odds are a bit low for that to be a coincidence. Maine Road doesn't move around like the NationStates Bunny, after all. So my point was: he can't reasonably claim ignorance. That's not the same as claiming he actively participated, which I did not claim.
He posted on his message board a couple of days later that Eurasia was taken down by Killerpilots and his multis. He knew.

Then where is your evidence?????

Dont say things without justification you silly boy

hi ya, hows u? So wat do u do on here, i have only just joined! LOL :idea: :arrow: :wink: :roll: :twisted: :evil: :!: :?: hi ya, :D :) :( :o :lol: 8) :? :shock: :x :P :oops: :cry:

:cough: :cry: :shout: :wave: :smile:




I am the founder of Blue Moon. One of our residents decided to crash a region called Euroaisa using UN multis.

This is wrong and I accept that. However the mods wrote this,

"Password removed. Blue Moon, you're ours now."

I have never seen the mods say something like that about a region as though they are going to target us.

This of course caused mass panic in Blue Moon. People were worried and our forums were packed with questions on what to do. We even considered to evacuate the whole region. My t-gram box could not handle the worries.

I feel the mods have acted in a irresponsible manner. They should have given us a stern warning. I would like an apoligy from the mods for making this game unplayable for a couple of days..

Many Thanks

Then where is your evidence?????

Dont say things without justification you silly boy
This is the last place you want to flame, trust me. You have done it before, if you continue to do so, it will come to the attention of Moderators. And you know perfectly well to what I refer.

No its not flaming. You just made a ridiculous accusation and I want evidance....

No its not flaming. You just made a ridculous accusation and I want evidance....

..and a spell checker.

No its not flaming. You just made a ridculous accusation and I want evidance....

..and a spell checker.


Since when was this an English exam??? Ive got my A grade in English gcse thank you so please stay on topic??