You can no longer propose to change passed resolutions.
Fantasan
15-09-2003, 10:52
It has apparently become a rule that proposals that seek to in some way alter or repeal a previously passes resolution are invalid. Any that are proposed are quickly deleted. We are no longer allowed to change our minds about passed resolutions, nor are we allowed to propose anything that would alter them in any way.
I would like to see this new "rule" added to the FAQ, just to make it official.
Nebbyland
15-09-2003, 12:30
Can one of the Mods give us a confirmation of this or let us know what is going on?
Kara
Today's spokesperson for Nebbyland
The Most Glorious Hack
15-09-2003, 13:09
Well... I guess you'd have to ask Enodia, as he tends to clean the UN proposal list the most.
Stephistan
15-09-2003, 13:29
This would appear to answer this question.
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71433
Stephanie
Forum Mod
This would appear to answer this question.
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71433
Stephanie
Forum Mod
It makes it "iffy," I guess. But the "Repeal Common Sense Act II" proposals didn't really call for changing game mechanics in any sense, just for undoing the effects of a single resolution.
Did they contain any wording implying that one of the reasons for repeal was that the common sense act was "beyond the scope of the UN" or "violated sovreignity," or any other appeal to what the *real* UN can and cannot do? That seems to tick off the admins...perhaps if it's lodged again, such wording should be left out.
Neutered Sputniks
15-09-2003, 18:16
Removing or undoing old resolutions is an issue of game mechanics, unfortunately. The way the resolution affects a Nation cannot be undone, unfortunately.
Removing or undoing old resolutions is an issue of game mechanics, unfortunately. The way the resolution affects a Nation cannot be undone, unfortunately.
I think that everybody understands that the statistics and mechanics of past resolutions cannont be changed. However, for the purposes of roleplaying and having laws governing each member nation, what is wrong with having existing resolutions "repealed" or "amended"? I believe that there was a resolution regarding healthcare that was modified almost immediately after, so it's not like this would be a precedence-setting event.
Ballotonia
15-09-2003, 20:17
This just reminds me of this thread: Feature Request: Repeal of UN resolutions (http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=44174)
Ballotonia
Removing or undoing old resolutions is an issue of game mechanics, unfortunately. The way the resolution affects a Nation cannot be undone, unfortunately.
Sure it can. By proposing a resolution with the opposite effect. That is no more changing game mechanics than proposing any resolution.
Neutered Sputniks
15-09-2003, 21:32
I could once again explain how it would in fact be affecting game mechanics...but I've already explained it in 2-3 other threads on this issue.
Kisnesia
15-09-2003, 21:37
Would a resolution containing at the bottom such text as:
(OOC: This resolution is intended soley for Roleplaying purposes, and not for changing game mechanics)
still be allowed?
Goobergunchia
15-09-2003, 21:38
I understand that for purposes of game mechanics UN resolutions can't be repealed. However, they should be able to be repealed for RP purposes. I would cite as precedent the resolution "'RBH' Replacement" adopted Thu Jun 26 2003. If that resolution was in order, RP repeal of "Common Sense Act II" should be in order.
And I would note that both "Required Basic Healthcare" and "'RBH' Replacement" are of the same category and strength.
I could once again explain how it would in fact be affecting game mechanics...but I've already explained it in 2-3 other threads on this issue.
link pls
Tisonica
15-09-2003, 22:36
This is one of the first times that I honestly think the mods screwed up. A rule that you can't repeal a resolution makes no sense, and obviously did not exist before because the RBH replacement went through.
So could a mod please explain, can we in fact repeal resolutions or did the RHB replacement not go through?
Neutered Sputniks
16-09-2003, 00:13
My last few posts here explain how it affects Game Mechanics:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=71433
If you were to want a resolution passed strictly for roleplaying, it could be done if the strength of the resolution was zero...so in other words, it was just a piece of paper with no changes to any Nation's actual stats...I dont know if that's possible...
Cotswold Morris
16-09-2003, 00:45
This is one of the first times that I honestly think the mods screwed up. A rule that you can't repeal a resolution makes no sense, and obviously did not exist before because the RBH replacement went through.
So could a mod please explain, can we in fact repeal resolutions or did the RHB replacement not go through?
There are two sides to every coin and rules are rules. If you had a resolution voted through which I vehemently disagreed with, I could do nothing about it. I couldn't propose to repeal it. What is wrong with that?
Remember to delete any "repeal common sense act" resolutions.
We, as mods, are working on this particular issue right now. In relation to the RBH Replacement proposal, that one did indeed slip through the cracks. I tend to be the more active mod in relation to UN proposals and from memory my computer was playing up at the time. Not a good excuse, but that's what happened.
Essentially, repealing resolutions has the following as an obstacle:
If I make a proposal which says, in the description, "let's have no barriers to trade whatsoever" and call it a "significant" resolution in "free trade", then that's all well and good. If, however, you want to repeal this resolution after it's passed, under what category should you post it? Posting it as another "free trade" resolution will only serve to free trade even further, and any other category will most likely result in the description bearing no resemblance to the effect the proposal will have - which is something which makes the proposal delete-worthy - since there's no category called "trade protectionism", this is always going to be a problem.
Alternatively, if a resolution about protectionism is passed then it stands to reason that a "repal" resolution would (under the current system) be listed as "free trade". The problem then becomes: what on earth was the protectionism resolution listed as?
Ultimately, that's the major obstacle I can see - one of the two resolutions (the one being repealed or the one to repeal it) must be at variance with the way that resolutions are meant to be used in the game as it stands.
Removing or undoing old resolutions is an issue of game mechanics, unfortunately. The way the resolution affects a Nation cannot be undone, unfortunately.
I think that everybody understands that the statistics and mechanics of past resolutions cannont be changed. However, for the purposes of roleplaying and having laws governing each member nation, what is wrong with having existing resolutions "repealed" or "amended"? I believe that there was a resolution regarding healthcare that was modified almost immediately after, so it's not like this would be a precedence-setting event.
Seeing as because of the mechanics of the game we cannot repeal resolutions, how about this. Resolutions are passed and implements as normal, and cannot be repealed. However, individual nations can choose not to endorse or sign on to each resolution for RP purposes only. This would get rid of the need to repeal current resolutions, and only bring about the occasional request for an amendment to be made.
I was always under the impression that "Social Justice" was the opposite of free trade.
Neutered Sputniks
17-09-2003, 03:23
Seeing as because of the mechanics of the game we cannot repeal resolutions, how about this. Resolutions are passed and implements as normal, and cannot be repealed. However, individual nations can choose not to endorse or sign on to each resolution for RP purposes only. This would get rid of the need to repeal current resolutions, and only bring about the occasional request for an amendment to be made.
Since this is an RP thing, there's no problem. However, realize that there wont be a button to click to keep your nation's stats from being affected by the resolution.
In character is in character, and in this issue I see no reason why a nation cant simply say that it refuses to abide by provisions of a resolution for the purposes of RP.
Goobergunchia
17-09-2003, 21:54
Seeing as because of the mechanics of the game we cannot repeal resolutions, how about this. Resolutions are passed and implements as normal, and cannot be repealed. However, individual nations can choose not to endorse or sign on to each resolution for RP purposes only. This would get rid of the need to repeal current resolutions, and only bring about the occasional request for an amendment to be made.
Since this is an RP thing, there's no problem. However, realize that there wont be a button to click to keep your nation's stats from being affected by the resolution.
In character is in character, and in this issue I see no reason why a nation cant simply say that it refuses to abide by provisions of a resolution for the purposes of RP.
I dissent.
So I'm a UN member. Now what?
The UN is your chance to mold the rest of the world to your vision, by voting for resolutions you like and scuttling the rest. However, it's a double-edged sword, because your nation will also be affected by any resolutions that pass. (You can't just obey the resolutions you like and ignore the rest, like real nations do.)
IMHO this is true for both game mechanics and RP.