NationStates Jolt Archive

Perhaps I should say "should" instead of "could." I understand, officially that an invader Could be chosen. But, as I see interest in this subject, thought it might be good to direct it.


Would it be a good or bad thing if an invader were chosen to be a moderator some day (click "No" if it would be a bad thing"? Why?



DISCLOSURE: I do not ask for myself. I just see an invader who wants to be a mod, getting flack for being an invader, and saw this as possible discussion topic. Thanks.

So 5 people voted No for this, but had no reason behind it at all?

Curious why people would choose one way or another. Especially if they wish to enforce limitations on player abilities...

There is a distinct lack of Mods who play this game as invaders or anti-invaders despite the fact that it's these situations which seem to dominate the moderation forum, not roleplay.

I think an Invader should be moderator, although finding one who hasn't cheated is going to be very difficult. I think an anti-invader should be a moderator as well.

Invaders can be mods. Invading is not the problem. I rather see any invader ask any other player if the want to play the invading game. I am oposed to invading, but if I ever get a notice of an upcoming invasion, it might be fun. After all, most UN members need a wake-up call once in a while. Invading has nothing to do with modding. Mods are players too, and as long as they act like a player, I see no problem with a mod being an invader.

I see no problem with a mod being an invader. If nothing else, it would add a new, much-needed perspective to the "invader rights" situation.

Finding an invader who hasn't cheated isn't too difficult if you look beyond 12-year-olds whose sole goal is to grief. There are a multitude of legitimate invader groups.

I voted yes but with a caveat, an invader could become a mod but they would have to be an uber human and cut off ties to their roots. The access to info and the access to the keys of the kingdom would make it very tempting for mere mortals not to abuse.

I remember a mod's region being invaded and the group who pulled it off were soundly routed by use of mod priviledge. Partly justified, partly not. Would be interesting to see the shoe on the other foot. Only two I could think of that may fit the bill is Loop and possibly Kandarin.

I say yes,if an fair invader can be found,though theoretically the mods arnt biased either way so it wont make any differnce

I have to say no. simply because I believe mods should not be RP'ing or invading. As mentioned before - you have too many keys that the normal user does not, and relatively few checks or balances to stop abuse.

So no Ackbar - noone who likes playing the games should Mod - it's a conflict of interest.

I say yes,if an fair invader can be found,though theoretically the mods arnt biased either way so it wont make any differnce

I agree. And I also agree with Cenobites, since they would have to agree not to use these powers for evil. If an invader is outright asking for mod power, he/she should not be trusted.

So - if a reliable drunk could be found - they should be a cop and bust other drunks? Specially since the cop has access to free beer?

(be careful in addressing that analogy - I have a couple of traps ready)

So - if a reliable drunk could be found - they should be a cop and bust other drunks? Specially since the cop has access to free beer?

(be careful in addressing that analogy - I have a couple of traps ready)

(traps? let's get it on!)

Sure. They would know where other drunks hang out/come together, would know how they access their stashes and be able to bust them effectively. Also, they could use the stashes to feed their habit, so they would always be happy with their job. *puts on Clint Eastwood accent* Go ahead, make my day.

Poltics of a mod SHOULD NOT MATTER. The only thing that should matter is if they would be a fair mod. Period. Zip. And no offense, but thats a cruddy analogy. Its totaly diferant.

LOL.

And how is it cruddy? If you're playing "Clue" with three other folks and you know what's in the sealed package and they don't - how can you play? How is it fair to them?

Also, they could use the stashes to feed their habit, so they would always be happy with their job.
And therin lies the rub - they would use the info to feed their playing, and they would always be happy...



*puts on Clint Eastwood accent* Go ahead, make my day.

I'd like to, but you fell neatly into making mine...

Its cruddy because it has zip to do with the case. If I understand you right, you compare all invaders to drunks, and thus claim drunks should not proscute drunks. Drunks are bad, period. Invaders are not always. As for the Clue thing...what does that have to do with anything?

Its cruddy because it has zip to do with the case. If I understand you right, you compare all invaders to drunks, and thus claim drunks should not proscute drunks. Drunks are bad, period. Invaders are not always. As for the Clue thing...what does that have to do with anything?

You ever hear of the word "analogy"?

I'd check it out someday - so to speak whilst grinning.

I have to say no. simply because I believe mods should not be RP'ing or invading. As mentioned before - you have too many keys that the normal user does not, and relatively few checks or balances to stop abuse.

So no Ackbar - noone who likes playing the games should Mod - it's a conflict of interest.

Their power is indeed checked; namely, all Game Moderator actions are logged for the admin to view, so if an invader Game Mod used their powers to assist their region-crashing (looking in their opponents' telegram box, removing a target region's password, etc.) you can bet that they wouldn't remain a Moderator for very long.

As for the possibility of invader Forum Mods, whether a player is an invader or not probably has no influence on their quality as a forum moderator.

Their power is indeed checked; namely, all Game Moderator actions are logged for the admin to view, so if an invader Game Mod used their powers to assist their region-crashing (looking in their opponents' telegram box, removing a target region's password, etc.) you can bet that they wouldn't remain a Moderator for very long.

As for the possibility of invader Forum Mods, whether a player is an invader or not probably has no influence on their quality as a forum moderator.

yeah, and there's zero complaints about mods too - And all is peachy and rosy, and we're walking thru flowers and bright shiney things. Oh, and monkeys will fly out of my butt as well!

Puhleeze - name one moderator demoted over moderating over region crashing- Hell - name one mod demoted for anything?

I'll put a bet saying that a region crasher wouldn't get demoted for using info they were allowed to have.

when you have proof to the contrary come and collect..

{snickers}

So - if a reliable drunk could be found - they should be a cop and bust other drunks? Specially since the cop has access to free beer?

(be careful in addressing that analogy - I have a couple of traps ready)

Best way to catch a thief is to set one out after them. Takes a like mind to properly assess. Trap away, the fact remains they are intimately acquainted with the issue at hand. A mod who had experience in this would be an asset.

RP is flawed here since there are no consequences for actions. Your nation does not suffer for actions in war, trade or otherwise. The only real tangible outcome that can be seen is the taking of a region to satisfy a result driven action. Given the lack of interest I have seen in trying to establish SET parameters for such actions a former invader would be invaluable to deal with said issues. As it stands now assessments provided by the other mods are often conflicting and when clarification is asked for its taken as personal insult.

Well, I noticed a lot of the argument about invaders is that they don't RP, well personally, I dont RP here because I'm used to AD&D, wehre you have a DM, that prevents a lot of the RP problems I see people complaining about, namely Godmoders, and until we have some sort of mini mod or what ever a DM would be called, I see no point in RPing, nor do I see a lot of the non Rpers who are vets of D&D joining up.

If the invaders in question do it as part of some sort of RP, then that's OK, no reason why they should not be considered. But if they have a record of invading as a purely technical maneuvre, getting hold of Regional Controls, changing the World Factbook entry and ejecting one nation, as many invaders seem to do in order to attract less attention to themselves, then certainly not. That demonstrates that they like really p*ssing people off for fun, which is hardly a desirable characteristic.

..... nor do I see a lot of the non Rpers who are vets of D&D joining up.

Ah but there are a lot of D&D vets who are RPers who role-play here - though many of us stick to our own regional boards and forums.

I voted yes but with a caveat, an invader could become a mod but they would have to be an uber human and cut off ties to their roots. The access to info and the access to the keys of the kingdom would make it very tempting for mere mortals not to abuse.

I remember a mod's region being invaded and the group who pulled it off were soundly routed by use of mod priviledge. Partly justified, partly not. Would be interesting to see the shoe on the other foot. Only two I could think of that may fit the bill is Loop and possibly Kandarin.

Couple of things, 1) I see no reason why the person would have to cut times with the invader group. I totally understand your point, but shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society always. Why not trust them just because of their ties. That said, I think if an invader mod was ever chosen, they should be able to retain old ties. I also think the Admin should quitely watch them like a hawk as they prove themselves, so that [violet] would be sure that she chose the right place.

2) Yeah, I remeber that invader group too. Unsuprsiingly we got booted out of that region super-quick. And as [violet] was quick to point out, and I completely agree, the booting of us by the appointed founder of the region was legal (founder rules were new, weren't sure about them at the time). Now, it was against the rules for the mod in Q to have read our TMs and posted htem on his regional board, as you refer to. But I see that as a non-issue now. The mod in Q appologized, said he would not do it again, and I trust it was a lesson learned by all. So, while I agree the temptationis there, you have to trust your mods.

3) As someone else here said, there should be anti-invaders as mods-- I agree with that. I would argue that there are some mods who are already anti-invader, but I would add that I would love to see a mod who is part of a protector group-- a group that invades invaders. Diferent perspectives are good.

So - if a reliable drunk could be found - they should be a cop and bust other drunks? Specially since the cop has access to free beer?

(be careful in addressing that analogy - I have a couple of traps ready)

Well, we won't agree on this oen likely, so don't want to run the dog so to speak (I have no idea what that means, so don't ask).

But, this is a wrong analogy. Griefing is being a drunk by your analogy (otherwise the anaology is worse then flawed). Invaders who grief break rules. An invader who does not greif should have no conflict of interest here at all.

Really, if you look at these boards, I can think of several invaders who frequesntly post about griefers on the board.

So while we may simply disagree in princple on your "Mods not RPing or invading" argument, on this point I believe you may just be mistaken. I am sure you will tell me I am wrong tho. :lol:

If the invaders in question do it as part of some sort of RP, then that's OK, no reason why they should not be considered. But if they have a record of invading as a purely technical maneuvre, getting hold of Regional Controls, changing the World Factbook entry and ejecting one nation, as many invaders seem to do in order to attract less attention to themselves, then certainly not. That demonstrates that they like really p*ssing people off for fun, which is hardly a desirable characteristic.

This would be more then just a technical invasion, no? Couldn't this also be called a legal invasion?

Thanks, for those who did, for posting on this. Really odd thread-- I would guess that by the majority of comments (not all Leemincus, true) that the people are for the idea with limitiations.

Which is not the case looking at the poll results, where it is currentyl jusr over 20 both, at a near tie on this idea.

I see good arguments (agree with them or not if you wish) for the idea, but very few arguments why this should not be allowed. I am not asking for Leemingus or TG to post more and more arguments against (tho i do actually readily encourage them to continue the debate). I am just supsrised that there were not more who were against the idea, who felt worth considering or at least posting why they were against the idea.

on that whole Drunk guy gaurding the liquor issue,
a friend of mine, is a former drunk, he has been clean 12 years, he owns a liquor store in the town next to mine, and has no trouble with it,
anothere person I know is a recovered drunk, he runs a little bar, but never tips into the stocks,
your drunk analogy is severly flawed, as I would be honored to have either of these guys run my Bar or Liquor store.

"Former" Drunk = "Former" Player = "Former" Region Crasher.

Sounds like the analogy still holds ;)

"Former" Drunk = "Former" Player = "Former" Region Crasher.

Sounds like the analogy still holds ;)

I still don't see the point. Dubya was a drunk and now you all trust him with the red button o' doom. Are you saying once you've engaged in a certain activity you'll always be drawn to it unable to resist the dark pleasures? An incredibly bold and broad statement which doesn't bear the scrutiny 100% of the time. This is a game, not a lifestyle. I sincerely doubt Loop sits in a darkened corner at home sweat glistening on his brow plotting how he can pull off the next caper rubbing his hands with glee.
For any invader to take off the hat and play another angle is as easy as deciding to take the black side in the next game of chess when you've been playing white. I just maintain they shouldn't be active.

Umm.

Who was that to? You quoted me, but that's my position. A mod shouldn't be able to invade or role play. There's a conflict of interest if they do.

Umm.

Who was that to? You quoted me, but that's my position. A mod shouldn't be able to invade or role play. There's a conflict of interest if they do.

Agreed. Perhaps I am somewhat confused here. I hold Mods shouldn't be allowed to engage those activities either. Such actions in the past shouldn't preclude them from becoming Mods however. I read your prior responses to say they shouldn't be allowed to become Mods at all. If I have misunderstood you I apologize.

Thats why mods are chose so carefully, to ensure they will not act unfairly. And no mod would be asked to moderate a dispute involving them. One of the other ones would surely deal with such a case.

Agreed. Perhaps I am somewhat confused here. I hold Mods shouldn't be allowed to engage those activities either. Such actions in the past shouldn't preclude them from becoming Mods however. I read your prior responses to say they shouldn't be allowed to become Mods at all. If I have misunderstood you I apologize.

No need for apologies - and yes, you did misunderstand.

I think that I'll chime in now with my personal opinions. The truth is, I would have no problems with a mod who was an invader. (Or even continued invasions with a secret puppet, though this would be a tad iffy) Very recently I actually had a puppet participate in an invasion. (No, I won't say which one). And it was fun. However, griefing did result despite the efforts of several of the members of the group.

There are two reasons why I don't see an invader becoming a mod anytime soon.

1) We currently are not in need of new moderators.
2) A very large percentage of invaders are involved in griefing.

Thus, when the time comes, should a player come to the top of the list who was an invader, but not a griefer, they would have my support.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

Dear Sal:
You Rock.
-Cspalla

I voted no. Here's my reasoning. Mods were created to make less work for admin. Invaders make more work for admin. Hence, the personality is one which enjoys chaos rather than one who enjoys order. :mrgreen:

Very recently I actually had a puppet participate in an invasion. (No, I won't say which one). And it was fun.

So we already have a moderator who is an invader....see, it can be done.

SS isn't a moderator. It's a tech advisor.

'He'.

The pronoun you're searching for is 'he'.

Thanks, Hack. I didn't want to make an error and offend anyone. :mrgreen:

SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling


looks like a mod to me, I still think he should have mod powers in at least the tach forum.

SS isn't a moderator. He's a tech advisor.

He's considered a mod for phpBB purposes...

SalusaSecondus

I am of the opinion that it's possible. As long as the moderator in question did not use mod powers while conducting (or defending against) an invasion, then the conflict-of-interest issue can be minimized.

Let's take a hypothetical case where a Game Moderator wishes to participate in an invasion. Let's examine which mod powers can be abused for this purpose, in order of (what I feel is) increasing illegality.

1) Reading other players telegrams.
2) Running an IP check on players to determine which nations are puppets of which nations.
3) Manipulating regional passwords.
4) Adding nations to, or removing nations from, the ban list.
5) Ejecting nations from the UN.
6) Deleting nations.

As long as a Game Moderator does not do any of these things with nations involved in the same invasion as the Game Mod, then I don't see a problem. All of the actions listed above are logged for [violet] to look over. Any abuse would be detected.

Forum Moderators (like myself) would be even more limited, as Forum Mods don't have power over the game, only the forum.

Any moderator who abused his/her powers wouldn't get away with it.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

Exactly. The other thing to bear in mind is that nearly any action a mod takes is reversable. Any abuse would not last for long.

I am of the opinion that it's possible. As long as the moderator in question did not use mod powers while conducting (or defending against) an invasion, then the conflict-of-interest issue can be minimized.

Let's take a hypothetical case where a Game Moderator wishes to participate in an invasion. Let's examine which mod powers can be abused for this purpose, in order of (what I feel is) increasing illegality.

1) Reading other players telegrams.
2) Running an IP check on players to determine which nations are puppets of which nations.
3) Manipulating regional passwords.
4) Adding nations to, or removing nations from, the ban list.
5) Ejecting nations from the UN.
6) Deleting nations.

As long as a Game Moderator does not do any of these things with nations involved in the same invasion as the Game Mod, then I don't see a problem. All of the actions listed above are logged for [violet] to look over. Any abuse would be detected.

Forum Moderators (like myself) would be even more limited, as Forum Mods don't have power over the game, only the forum.

Any moderator who abused his/her powers wouldn't get away with it.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

How do you fight the perception that a person so griefed would have that the mod acted improperly? Is there an oversight process they could follow? A disinterested third party perhaps? Or how about making it a rule that such gameplay would have to be overseen by an admin prior to the beginning of such an action to be able to state flat out that it didn't happen?

Add to that a draconian "one strike - You're out" and I could change my mind.

However - I DO remember a mod looked thru PM's and used the info to prevent an invasion. _It was judged the invaders were attempting to "grief" but that decision really left a sour taste - if you get my drift...

So we already have a moderator who is an invader....see, it can be done.

I'm not really an invader. I did it once (and probably won't do it again). I felt that it was necessary for me to understand more aspects of the game.

I don't feel that a moderator could be an active invader, ESPECIALLY not if it is a known puppet. Though I think that actual abuse of power could be avoided, it would be impossible to avoid the perception of it. Thus, I'm in agreement with PM in that mods should probably not participate in invasions.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

So we already have a moderator who is an invader....see, it can be done.

I'm not really an invader. I did it once (and probably won't do it again).


I should have put a smiley face at the end of that comment for all the fuss it raised. Assume this was placed at the end of the last comment :lol:

Everything anyone said in response to my comment. Yes, you're right. It was meant in jest.

I voted no. Here's my reasoning. Mods were created to make less work for admin. Invaders make more work for admin. Hence, the personality is one which enjoys chaos rather than one who enjoys order. :mrgreen:

Any players make more work for the admin, it's the nature of participating in the game. If this weren't the case, Mr. Barry would have been left to himself on this site long ago. By your logic, no one should ever be a mod - we all ought to be abandoning our nations. Legitimate invaders, the only kind which would even be considered for mod-hood, contribute activity and life to this game, like anyone else here.

I also find it funny that there are so many votes and so few opinions posted to go with them. If it's not obvious, I voted yes.

Umm.

Who was that to? You quoted me, but that's my position. A mod shouldn't be able to invade or role play. There's a conflict of interest if they do.

But they are allowed to Role Play, no?

I think that I'll chime in now with my personal opinions. The truth is, I would have no problems with a mod who was an invader. (Or even continued invasions with a secret puppet, though this would be a tad iffy) Very recently I actually had a puppet participate in an invasion. (No, I won't say which one). And it was fun. However, griefing did result despite the efforts of several of the members of the group.

There are two reasons why I don't see an invader becoming a mod anytime soon.

1) We currently are not in need of new moderators.
2) A very large percentage of invaders are involved in griefing.

Thus, when the time comes, should a player come to the top of the list who was an invader, but not a griefer, they would have my support.

http://www.weirdozone.0catch.com/projects/nationstates/salusasecondus/salusasecondus2.jpg
SalusaSecondus
Tech Modling

Yeah, I am not suprised we don't need new mods, so I am not suggesting this be anytime soon, no doubt.

As to the second part, this is easy. A mod should be a character who has been around here a long time. Invaders who grief are dumb and do not stay in the game for a long time, thus I think Mod, Modling, and player alike woul dhave a darn time finding a long term invader who is a griefer.

That said, thanks for weighing in, and sorry some of your co-horts griefed.

I am of the opinion that it's possible. As long as the moderator in question did not use mod powers while conducting (or defending against) an invasion, then the conflict-of-interest issue can be minimized.

Let's take a hypothetical case where a Game Moderator wishes to participate in an invasion. Let's examine which mod powers can be abused for this purpose, in order of (what I feel is) increasing illegality.

1) Reading other players telegrams.
2) Running an IP check on players to determine which nations are puppets of which nations.
3) Manipulating regional passwords.
4) Adding nations to, or removing nations from, the ban list.
5) Ejecting nations from the UN.
6) Deleting nations.

As long as a Game Moderator does not do any of these things with nations involved in the same invasion as the Game Mod, then I don't see a problem. All of the actions listed above are logged for [violet] to look over. Any abuse would be detected.

Forum Moderators (like myself) would be even more limited, as Forum Mods don't have power over the game, only the forum.

Any moderator who abused his/her powers wouldn't get away with it.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

Great, clear post. How I feel as well, obviously. I think it is odd that 29 nations seem to disagree with this.

I am of the opinion that it's possible. As long as the moderator in question did not use mod powers while conducting (or defending against) an invasion, then the conflict-of-interest issue can be minimized.

Let's take a hypothetical case where a Game Moderator wishes to participate in an invasion. Let's examine which mod powers can be abused for this purpose, in order of (what I feel is) increasing illegality.

1) Reading other players telegrams.
2) Running an IP check on players to determine which nations are puppets of which nations.
3) Manipulating regional passwords.
4) Adding nations to, or removing nations from, the ban list.
5) Ejecting nations from the UN.
6) Deleting nations.

As long as a Game Moderator does not do any of these things with nations involved in the same invasion as the Game Mod, then I don't see a problem. All of the actions listed above are logged for [violet] to look over. Any abuse would be detected.

Forum Moderators (like myself) would be even more limited, as Forum Mods don't have power over the game, only the forum.

Any moderator who abused his/her powers wouldn't get away with it.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

How do you fight the perception that a person so griefed would have that the mod acted improperly? Is there an oversight process they could follow? A disinterested third party perhaps? Or how about making it a rule that such gameplay would have to be overseen by an admin prior to the beginning of such an action to be able to state flat out that it didn't happen?

Add to that a draconian "one strike - You're out" and I could change my mind.

However - I DO remember a mod looked thru PM's and used the info to prevent an invasion. _It was judged the invaders were attempting to "grief" but that decision really left a sour taste - if you get my drift...

Well, just for context, since I was the nation to intially raise the issue on the forums. I was the nation, and a certain Unchained mod ( I don't want to be a tattler) was the one who posted telegrams of a an associate of mine on the regional board.

Well, the issue was raised, and discussed. The mod never admitted to cheating, tho he admited to misusing the mod powers. We made up, and actually we recenetly exchanged condolencses for a common-loved entertainer who passed (not Cash).

So, yeah, there was an ugliness and a mod did use his powers in a way in which he shouldn't have. Long after the Admin said that the mod actually didn't abuse his power, the mod himself eventually appologized and wished that he not done this.

And so we move forward. So what. I trust this mod now. The rule is now there, and he knows not to misuse the ability. So, I don't think this should count against the mod who acvtually stacked cards against us a while back, and I certainly don't think this should count against us either.

Now that all parties know, records are being watched [violet]. I feel that if a mod were to actively cheat in a region, violet would be able to trace this. This goes for mods who I feel are biased against me (I only include one name, and Unchained, you are not that) as well as the rest, so I don't see where the opportinty to cheat is much of an option for mods.

Either way, thanks for posting dude. You keep things interesting.

a common-loved entertainer who passed (not Cash).


[off-topic]

Zevon?

[/off-topic]

[off topic]
John Ritter
[/off topic]

:cry:

a common-loved entertainer who passed (not Cash).


[off-topic]

Zevon?

[/off-topic]

Sadly, yes.

Though I was disapointed by Ritter's passing as well (good guess Loop), I feel Zevon was quite a talented artist.

ALthough I am an invader myself and have invaded various regions in my time (without greifing) I worry at the thought that a nationstates low life like me would be a mod!!

I have come across alot of different types of invaders during my time here. Some are very intellectual characters and really know this game. Others are merely foul mouthed kids looking to make a name for themselves.
It is dangerous to even consider giving anyone who ruins the game for alot of people by taking their region(even if there is no grieving) full unlimited power in this game.
These people have enemies and allies. They would not treat all players fairly and just.
I know that if I became a mod I would love the power to read the telegrams of others. It would be great. But if someone who dispises Blue Moon(my region) became a mod I would worry that all my hard work and time would be wasted.


Only the nice people of this game should be given the power to run it!!!

ALthough I am an invader myself and have invaded various regions in my time (without greifing) I worry at the thought that a nationstates low life like me would be a mod!!

I have come across alot of different types of invaders during my time here. Some are very intellectual characters and really know this game. Others are merely foul mouthed kids looking to make a name for themselves.
It is dangerous to even consider giving anyone who ruins the game for alot of people by taking their region(even if there is no grieving) full unlimited power in this game.
These people have enemies and allies. They would not treat all players fairly and just.
I know that if I became a mod I would love the power to read the telegrams of others. It would be great. But if someone who dispises Blue Moon(my region) became a mod I would worry that all my hard work and time would be wasted.


Only the nice people of this game should be given the power to run it!!!

This is again touching upon the issue of abuse of moderator powers. All mods actions are logged for [violet]'s review. Did you read someone else's telegrams? [violet] will know about it upon reading the log. Did you delete someone without cause? [violet] will know about it. Did you meddle around with passwords? [violet] will know about it.

All anyone needs to do is E-mail admin@nationstates.net with an accusation, and [violet] will look into the incident and easily see whether or not a moderator abused his/her powers.

All ph34r [VIOLET]! Bow down to the color PURPLE!

...

:lol:

Seriously, though, no moderator could possibly get away with abusing his/her powers.

Oh, LM? You were asking about disinterested third parties and some kind of oversight? [violet] is both; she has ultimate control over the system.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

ALthough I am an invader myself and have invaded various regions in my time (without greifing) I worry at the thought that a nationstates low life like me would be a mod!!

I have come across alot of different types of invaders during my time here. Some are very intellectual characters and really know this game. Others are merely foul mouthed kids looking to make a name for themselves.
It is dangerous to even consider giving anyone who ruins the game for alot of people by taking their region(even if there is no grieving) full unlimited power in this game.
These people have enemies and allies. They would not treat all players fairly and just.
I know that if I became a mod I would love the power to read the telegrams of others. It would be great. But if someone who dispises Blue Moon(my region) became a mod I would worry that all my hard work and time would be wasted.


Only the nice people of this game should be given the power to run it!!!

This is again touching upon the issue of abuse of moderator powers. All mods actions are logged for [violet]'s review. Did you read someone else's telegrams? [violet] will know about it upon reading the log. Did you delete someone without cause? [violet] will know about it. Did you meddle around with passwords? [violet] will know about it.

All anyone needs to do is E-mail admin@nationstates.net with an accusation, and [violet] will look into the incident and easily see whether or not a moderator abused his/her powers.

All ph34r [VIOLET]! Bow down to the color PURPLE!

...

:lol:

Seriously, though, no moderator could possibly get away with abusing his/her powers.

Oh, LM? You were asking about disinterested third parties and some kind of oversight? [violet] is both; she has ultimate control over the system.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia



So if the mods cannot abuse the powers surely i can be a mod...

If you say no then obviously mods can abuse the power and hence you are not telling the truth. :wink:

So if the mods cannot abuse the powers surely i can be a mod...

If you say no then obviously mods can abuse the power and hence you are not telling the truth. :wink:

Let me be a little clearer....

Mods can abuse their powers, but they can't get away with it. Having a dirty Mod does, of course, add to the problems [violet] has to deal with, so [violet] chooses mods who can be trusted.

"Think about it for a moment."

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
Founder of The Realm of Ambrosia

Besides, I did not know this until a week ago, but all Moderators start off with very limited powers. Any prospective Mod would spend a month or two patrolling the Forums before they would be trusted (or not) to manage game issues.

Besides, I did not know this until a week ago, but all Moderators start off with very limited powers. Any prospective Mod would spend a month or two patrolling the Forums before they would be trusted (or not) to manage game issues.

Tactical Grace is correct. As a Forum Moderator, my mod powers in the game itself amount to diddly-squat. :lol:

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

The answer to this question is ...... No chance in the world.

End of story. Time for a lock.

I voted no, I don't think they should or could become Mods, mainly because I just cant see how it is workable.

Even with the safe guard of the admin knowing what they do it only takes one major piece of abuse of Mod powers to seriously disrupt the game for many people.

This is not a scenario I like the sound of and personally I can't see how someone who is used to invaded (and it's mindset) can be trusted not to be tempted by this kind of power.

I do however think anti-invaders could become Mods with a lot less controversy and potential problems, they tend to be committed to the game not being disrupted and a lot of them are in fact well respected by griefers and invaders!

ALthough I am an invader myself and have invaded various regions in my time (without greifing) I worry at the thought that a nationstates low life like me would be a mod!!

I have come across alot of different types of invaders during my time here. Some are very intellectual characters and really know this game. Others are merely foul mouthed kids looking to make a name for themselves.
It is dangerous to even consider giving anyone who ruins the game for alot of people by taking their region(even if there is no grieving) full unlimited power in this game.
These people have enemies and allies. They would not treat all players fairly and just.
I know that if I became a mod I would love the power to read the telegrams of others. It would be great. But if someone who dispises Blue Moon(my region) became a mod I would worry that all my hard work and time would be wasted.


Only the nice people of this game should be given the power to run it!!!

Briefly,
1) Not all invaders are low-lifes (your words)
2) There are a lot of different types of invaders, as you say. Why would you trust the good ones because of the bad ones? This makes no sense. Any mod is going to be vital to the game as a non-mod and their character will be known before this happens.
3) Because you might not treat your enemies fairly, it is wrong to suggest that others would act with the same prejudice. All mods should be fair, regardless.

I voted no, I don't think they should or could become Mods, mainly because I just cant see how it is workable.

Even with the safe guard of the admin knowing what they do it only takes one major piece of abuse of Mod powers to seriously disrupt the game for many people.

This is not a scenario I like the sound of and personally I can't see how someone who is used to invaded (and it's mindset) can be trusted not to be tempted by this kind of power.

I do however think anti-invaders could become Mods with a lot less controversy and potential problems, they tend to be committed to the game not being disrupted and a lot of them are in fact well respected by griefers and invaders!

It seems oddly prejudiced that you would think players should be punished for playing by the rules. Any long term invader, and no invader fresh off the AOL boat would ever be made mod (not insulting AOL users, just a mentality) it would have to be long term player. Any long term invader will play by the rules.

Any long term invader will play by the rules.

Sure bout that Ackbar ;)

Any long term invader will play by the rules.

Sure bout that Ackbar ;)

If they've been doing it a long time and not been busted, then I'd say yes.

Any long term invader will play by the rules.

Sure bout that Ackbar ;)

Barring false accusation from authority, miscommunication from player or player intention, or simple mistake, absolultely.

Anyone look at these forums? The invaders are under far more scrutinty then the majority of players, period. Look at the number of invaders who are booted for cheating, or breaking rules. We don't have the numbers, but it is a lot, lot of people. To invade and not be kicked out of the game, is a testament to commitment to the rules. I am not saying this shoudl give any more cred to invader, but it should certainly should account for as much as cred as others who follow the rules.

Any long term invader will play by the rules.

Sure bout that Ackbar ;)

Barring false accusation from authority, miscommunication from player or player intention, or simple mistake, absolultely.

Anyone look at these forums? The invaders are under far more scrutinty then the majority of players, period. Look at the number of invaders who are booted for cheating, or breaking rules. We don't have the numbers, but it is a lot, lot of people. To invade and not be kicked out of the game, is a testament to commitment to the rules. I am not saying this shoudl give any more cred to invader, but it should certainly should account for as much as cred as others who follow the rules.

Fair amount of truth to that Ack but you can't be surprised when the invader is treated with some loathing and disgust. Its a role that while essential to the 'excitement' of the game is not an esteemed one. That having been said its a role and shouldn't preclude anyone in the same sense as an aggressive RP player shouldn't be. Long term indicates faithfully applying the rules, respect to a degree and committment. Can't help but see the prerequisites for a consciencious Mod there regardless of the role historically played. Mods don't affect the gameplay, they effect the game rules.

Any long term invader will play by the rules.

Sure bout that Ackbar ;)

Barring false accusation from authority, miscommunication from player or player intention, or simple mistake, absolultely.

Anyone look at these forums? The invaders are under far more scrutinty then the majority of players, period. Look at the number of invaders who are booted for cheating, or breaking rules. We don't have the numbers, but it is a lot, lot of people. To invade and not be kicked out of the game, is a testament to commitment to the rules. I am not saying this shoudl give any more cred to invader, but it should certainly should account for as much as cred as others who follow the rules.


The point is the mindset, someone who invades is always going to have that part of them that will be tempted by crossing over to abuse, i'm not saying that anti-invaders don't have it just that in my view we are less given to temptation of that kind because many of us become AI because of experiencing invasion/griefing...

It does seem that the game needs someone at a Mod level who understands this way of playing, the whole thing in Arrakis is a good example of why... :wink:

Dangerous assumption regarding mindset Arnarchotopia. I've seen plenty of instances where Invaders don the white hats to assist regions. They haven't exploited the obvious weaknesses and rendered invaluable assistance. I understand your reasoning but have to say its a very broad brush. I hope the next time a Mod is needed they consider someone acquainted with the Invader issue, you're correct-Arrakis was a good example.

Couple of things, 1) I see no reason why the person would have to cut times with the invader group. I totally understand your point, but shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society always. Why not trust them just because of their ties. That said, I think if an invader mod was ever chosen, they should be able to retain old ties. I also think the Admin should quitely watch them like a hawk as they prove themselves, so that [violet] would be sure that she chose the right place.



"Shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society...?"

Well there's the reason--invaders aren't trusted. Period.

Couple of things, 1) I see no reason why the person would have to cut times with the invader group. I totally understand your point, but shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society always. Why not trust them just because of their ties. That said, I think if an invader mod was ever chosen, they should be able to retain old ties. I also think the Admin should quitely watch them like a hawk as they prove themselves, so that [violet] would be sure that she chose the right place.



"Shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society...?"

Well there's the reason--invaders aren't trusted. Period.

Again a broad assumption. There isn't a single organization, there are several running the gamut from 'Weel rul teh wurld!' to ones who approach it as an organized entity who pursue elitists and others who offend their sensibilities. I've been in dialogue with some I'd sooner crush under my heel than give a civilized response. Yet I know others who have aided in campaigns to oust the AOL griefers and in whom I trust implicitly when they give their word. To say by virtue of being an invader one can't be trusted is wrong, short sighted and dangerous. You're entitled to feel the way you do but knowing who I know its rather unfair in my view to generalize.

Welcome Back Westy!

hey look at it this way, at least the Invaders don't GodMod :D .

"Shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society...?"

Well there's the reason--invaders aren't trusted. Period.

News flash, Most players dont trust the Mods we currently have, lol, if they did there wouldnt be any,
X mod is a dirty nasty person [violet] please ban them
threads.

For the Most part I would not like seing an invade become a mod (see my comment below the quote), but some like Nothingg I could bear.

(I voted no in case it isn't obvious).


I just see an invader who wants to be a mod, getting flack for being an invader

If you are reffering to INGS0C, he has a bad temper, and insists on founders being unable to access regional control from the RR and says that UN Delegate must always be allowed access to regioanl control. He also says it as if he were doing us a favor by allowing it at all, and constantly demanded to know why the mods weren't doing it, calling them lazy (and upon learning that only admin can change it calling them lazy), and pretty much acting like he thought that he was Max Barry.

Any long term invader will play by the rules.

Sure bout that Ackbar ;)

Barring false accusation from authority, miscommunication from player or player intention, or simple mistake, absolultely.

Anyone look at these forums? The invaders are under far more scrutinty then the majority of players, period. Look at the number of invaders who are booted for cheating, or breaking rules. We don't have the numbers, but it is a lot, lot of people. To invade and not be kicked out of the game, is a testament to commitment to the rules. I am not saying this shoudl give any more cred to invader, but it should certainly should account for as much as cred as others who follow the rules.

Fair amount of truth to that Ack but you can't be surprised when the invader is treated with some loathing and disgust. Its a role that while essential to the 'excitement' of the game is not an esteemed one. That having been said its a role and shouldn't preclude anyone in the same sense as an aggressive RP player shouldn't be. Long term indicates faithfully applying the rules, respect to a degree and committment. Can't help but see the prerequisites for a consciencious Mod there regardless of the role historically played. Mods don't affect the gameplay, they effect the game rules.

Well, while I don’t know if I agree with your use of the word ‘excitement,’ I agree with this to the most part. It needs to be noted, as I believe you do, that playing an unpopular role to the letter of the rules should not be confused as not playing the rules. The truth is that an invader may not be popular. When my flagship nation enters a region, it is gen. not to fanfare. That said, I follow the rules and as such can be disliked for actions but should not be disrespected in the realms of rules.

To imply, as others have, that I am more likely to cheat because I invader is grossly offensive as well as ultimately ill thought or based.


Any long term invader will play by the rules.

Sure bout that Ackbar ;)

Barring false accusation from authority, miscommunication from player or player intention, or simple mistake, absolultely.

Anyone look at these forums? The invaders are under far more scrutinty then the majority of players, period. Look at the number of invaders who are booted for cheating, or breaking rules. We don't have the numbers, but it is a lot, lot of people. To invade and not be kicked out of the game, is a testament to commitment to the rules. I am not saying this shoudl give any more cred to invader, but it should certainly should account for as much as cred as others who follow the rules.


The point is the mindset, someone who invades is always going to have that part of them that will be tempted by crossing over to abuse, i'm not saying that anti-invaders don't have it just that in my view we are less given to temptation of that kind because many of us become AI because of experiencing invasion/griefing...


No offence, but it is insulting that you suggest I am will always be temtpted to cross over the rules in an offenive manner. Why is this, because you don’t like how I legally play the game? I feel you are furthering a sterotype that has no merit.

Look, most invader cheat. I agree with that, a lot of them suck. But the ones who follow the rules, in what basis do you have the right to suggest that they will lean to cheating? No offence meant, I honestly wish to know what you base this on.




Couple of things, 1) I see no reason why the person would have to cut times with the invader group. I totally understand your point, but shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society always. Why not trust them just because of their ties. That said, I think if an invader mod was ever chosen, they should be able to retain old ties. I also think the Admin should quitely watch them like a hawk as they prove themselves, so that [violet] would be sure that she chose the right place.



"Shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society...?"

Well there's the reason--invaders aren't trusted. Period.

I guess that depends on who you talk to.



Couple of things, 1) I see no reason why the person would have to cut times with the invader group. I totally understand your point, but shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society always. Why not trust them just because of their ties. That said, I think if an invader mod was ever chosen, they should be able to retain old ties. I also think the Admin should quitely watch them like a hawk as they prove themselves, so that [violet] would be sure that she chose the right place.



"Shouldn't a moderator be a trusted member of this society...?"

Well there's the reason--invaders aren't trusted. Period.

Again a broad assumption. There isn't a single organization, there are several running the gamut from 'Weel rul teh wurld!' to ones who approach it as an organized entity who pursue elitists and others who offend their sensibilities. I've been in dialogue with some I'd sooner crush under my heel than give a civilized response. Yet I know others who have aided in campaigns to oust the AOL griefers and in whom I trust implicitly when they give their word. To say by virtue of being an invader one can't be trusted is wrong, short sighted and dangerous. You're entitled to feel the way you do but knowing who I know its rather unfair in my view to generalize.

Aside from completely agreeing with this I would have to ass that it is not only a matter of Quilts having their own opinion as you state. Is an il-founded opinon. If you trust no invaders, then you either do not play the game enough, have never contacted the legal invaders for information or assistance, or you are simply prejudiced. Sorry, I understand if it is just a case of prejudice. But to base someone off of their group rather then ther merits is a prejudice.