NationStates Jolt Archive

What happened to him? He was deleted? :shock:

Well, there goes that proposal. I think he was deleted for being a dictator in the Pacific.

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-President Z.D. Meier
Alliance of Democracy
U.N. Delegate

http://images.art.com/images/PRODUCTS/small/10045000/10045608.jpg

He just died of inactivity :twisted:

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Nah, he died of 'over-activity'. :)

I don't know, but I reported him for greifing a couple days ago. That dude was nuts, ejecting as many people from the pacific as he did. It was UN nations and Non-UN nations alike. No reasons, no nothing.

I say good riddance.

Hmmm. Isnt griefing supposed to mean ejecting everybody from a region?

This is an interesting course of action. The moderators and even violet said that what he was doing wasn't against the rules since the natives made him delegate. It was bantered about that it could be considered griefing when he ejected about 40% of the population but he couldn't have ejected more than 15% though before the server went down.
Then the server went down and by definition he could do nothing more. 24 hours after the server goes down he is deleted.

This is a strange turn of events since it seems the moderators reversed their stated position without cause. Or without any obvious cause. Would it be possible for a game authority to expound on this seemingly arbitrary action? I am not the nation so it doesn't affect me directly but it does impact on players in that it seems to be a re-interpretation of some rules.

The issue is currently being discussed.

Hmm, it might have been an error:

The Pacific:
# 5 minutes ago: Francos spain departed this region for Lazarus.
Lazarus:
# 3 minutes ago: The Dominion of Francos Spain ceased to exist.
# 5 minutes ago: Francos spain arrived from The Pacific.

Hmmm. Isnt griefing supposed to mean ejecting everybody from a region?

No. The FAQ defines greifing as ejecting a "large number of nations".

Now for a while, everyone kept saying that since The Pacific was so large, the amount of nations he was ejecting was OK (absurd in my book, but whatever). Every time I checked my nation in the Pacific, I would look at the regional happenings, and it would be completely full of nations ejected in the last few minutes. The natives would demand an explanation, and never get one. It was insane.

The issue is currently being discussed.

How was he deleted with the server down anyways?

The issue is currently being discussed.

How was he deleted with the server down anyways?

The server didn't stay down, it went down, and didn't reboot properly. (I think it was actually down for less than an hour). The site was still up, and you could look at nations and regions, but it wouldn't allow us mere mortals to log in.

Ok, it was apparently a bug that caused the deletion of Francos Spain. As his nation was resurrected, but needs to reapply for the UN, I'm asking that there be a 48 hr moratorium on actions in The Pacific so that Francos can reapply for UN membership and then be re-endorsed to the Delegate position in The Pacific.

Note, I am asking this as his nation was deleted by a bug, and in a way, wish to reset the situation as much as possible in the interest of fair play.

Oh come on Neutered, you want fair-play for Francos ?! No way, he doesn't deserve any.
Are you sure it was a bug, BTW ?

Hey, why stoop to the level you feel he's at? Fair play. He was deleted by a bug, not anything he did, why should he be made to suffer losing his delegate slot just because you dont like what he's done in the past?

I asked kindly, please respect my request.

So what do you want us to do? Ask people to re-endorse him?!

No, simply dont attempt to invade the Pacific

if people want him back, they'll re-endorse him. if they don't, problem solved!

No, simply dont attempt to invade the Pacific

But, you are not gonna intervene, if someone does, right?

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Maybe in the same way, for people who hack your password - pass it off as a "Coup"..rofl :lol:

, I'm asking that there be a 48 hr moratorium on actions in The Pacific so that Francos can reapply for UN membership and then be re-endorsed to the Delegate position in The Pacific.

What exactly do you mean? I doubt that the Pacific Army will wait,regardless of fairness.I must admit,Although I am against Francos Spain's actions,it is only fair that NS players must be allowed to represent evil characters or good characters.

Invading? Ok, no invading. That sounds fair enough. But i'll collect endorsements from the inside though...

BTW, InfernoIce, a good pal of francos', will be the next delegate... Talk to him about fair-play.

Francos is not in The Pacific, and has no endorsements! What is the problem now? :?

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Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Ok, Neutered, your request is fair. If any of us becomes delegate, we'll let him collect endorsement in The Pacific for 48 hours. It's a deal. What happens after 48 hours is another thing. Is that ok with you? And i don't call it a bug, maybe God's intervention? (and all that karma and voodoo...)

And if InfernoIce becomes delegate, will you make him be fair too and allow us to further collect endorsements?

That's hilarious.

Neutered...

If Francos is allowed to eject nations repeatedly for collecting endorsements, or even just having a nation with a STATIC and unchanging number of endorsements... AND THAT IS 'LEGAL'

Then there should be no reason why we cannot act now...

If 'FAIR' by your standards is allowing Francos the time to recruit and regain enough endorsements to return to the Delegacy...


Then I say, you must rightfully step in and do a number of other things...

1) Unban all of the nations Francos ejected for collecting endorsements... it's in the interest of "FAIR PLAY" that you do so...

2) Allow all nations in the Pacific to endorse whom they choose, be they Francos or otherwise... it's in the interest of "FAIR PLAY" that you do so...

3) Mandate in the official rules that "FAIR PLAY" has an official standing...
Because I KNOW you and other Mods have stated that although Francos' actions may have been IMMORAL over the last few days... they were fully LEGAL... and though not FAIR... he was still able to do so...



IF WE MUST BE FAIR FOR FRANCOS... HE MUST BE FAIR TO US...

Amnesty for all nations banned IMMEADIATELY... Not when he retakes the Delegacy... not a few days down the line... NOW, the mods would be required to remove ALL NATIONS from the Pacific Ban List...

Because that would be in the interest of "FAIR PLAY" ...



If the rules are to be changed today, so that Francos recieves FAIR PLAY... it must be retroactive and be applied to all of the Pacific nations in exile as well...

Please stop, my side is starting to hurt...

Thedoc, step back, please.

I am simply asking that you let the region be for 48 hours. A bug is not a part of the game whereas the actions taken be Francos Spain were. Therefore, it would indeed be fair play to ask that he is allowed time to regain his delegate position in The Pacific so the game may take up as close to where it left off as possible.


I would prefer that no nations wishin to despose Francos attempt to collect endorsements from other Pacific nations at this time.

yes Neut, 1 time is enough.

edit: Neut removed 3 of his double-posts.

What happened? The forum tripped, even for me!

Neutered, let my put it to you like this: When Thedoc lost over 100 endorsements because of that endorsement-bug, you didn't asked for fair-play, though it was clearly a BUG. What happened? Francos got elected by mistake! Other 3-5 people had more endorsement than him. Now, taking back Thedoc's Delegacy is real fair-play. So, instead, ask Francos to stand down.
If you want fair-play, then this is fair-play !!!

BTW, what/who is Francos?! Why do you like him so much?

This all seems to wierd for me, The nation that has been the center of discussion for 4 days is the only one to get deleted during a downtime. :roll:

Let's all give it a rest for 2 days, and see what happens. It is just a game, and let's play it fair. Try to have fun while you play it, in harmony with your concience.

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

There are alot of UN nations in the Pacific, near 1000 in fact. Theodoc could have gained another 100 if he had tried. But, he was weak and bound to lose the delegacy eventually.

Well, Francos had 48 hours... Now he has almost 47... He didn't even moved to The Pacific... are you sure he still wants to be delegate?

Ok, Neutered, your request is fair. If any of us becomes delegate, we'll let him collect endorsement in The Pacific for 48 hours. It's a deal. What happens after 48 hours is another thing.

This idea has merit.

Look at it from another perspective: While Francos' endorsements weren't highly inactive-heavy, they had enough moderately inactive people that less than half of those who endorsed him will do so again within 48 hours. Factor in InfernoIce's 115 endorsements and Francos may never gain the Delegacy again, and certainly not in 48 hours.

Also, Francos' deletion has spurred a massive flurry of movements in The Pacific by the PA and their allies between the time of tdeletion and the time of your ruling. Calling that back won't be easy. A simpler approach would be to forbid whoever rises to the top in the Pacific from banning Francos for a certain amount of time, instead of forbidding his allies(InfernoIce, Poskrevyshev) and enemies (Thedoc, The Savage Lands, Norion, LadyRebels, me, Treenudity, Free4all, Crazygirl, etc.) from being involved at all in the region for that time.

I agree wholeheartedly with that position Kandarin...


'Fair Play' is not PREVENTING the opposition to Francos from acting...

'Fair Play' is indeed allowing both sides to act equally.

All I am asking is that 'Fair Play' be applied to one and all and not just one side...

Otherwise, it is showing bias to one side or the other on the behalf of the Moderators...

There are alot of UN nations in the Pacific, near 1000 in fact. Theodoc could have gained another 100 if he had tried. But, he was weak and bound to lose the delegacy eventually.

Well, Francos Spain lost 200 endorsement in a few days, and NOT because of a bug. The bug occured when he was at around 170. Initially he had 384. So, who is bound to loose the delegacy?

[double post]

A simpler approach would be to forbid whoever rises to the top in the Pacific from banning Francos for a certain amount of time, instead of forbidding his allies(InfernoIce, Poskrevyshev) and enemies (Thedoc, The Savage Lands, Norion, LadyRebels, me, Treenudity, Free4all, Crazygirl, etc.) from being involved at all in the region for that time.

I agree with this idea, with the possible modification that no regional banning be allowed by anyone within that 48 hours timeframe.

I would further suggest redefining that 48 hour timeframe in terms of the number of NationStates system update that take place. In this case, no Delegate can ban anybody from "The Pacific" until the system update of Tuesday Noon GMT (Tuesday 7 AM EST).

Do I have the update schedule correct? every noon and midnight GMT?

Hold it! An update just happened. Okay, it's every 11 AM and PM GMT. So, the grace period being granted to Francos Spain could be defined as untilt the system update time of Tuesday 11AM GMT.

By the way, I note that a couple of nations were deleted from The Rejected Realms during the crash, so it wasn't just Francos Spain. I posted about it in this (http://networkradio.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=Information&action=display&num=1062440131) topic on the NetWorkRadio forums.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
Foudner of The Realm of Ambrosia

So far I've only heard of what? 3 nations deleted during this outage...


Francos... and the 2 nations from the RR, one of whom was 'Eire shamrock is gay'

Not exactly a name that randomly gets selected... sounds to me like it was deleted for being offensive.

A simpler approach would be to forbid whoever rises to the top in the Pacific from banning Francos for a certain amount of time, instead of forbidding his allies(InfernoIce, Poskrevyshev) and enemies (Thedoc, The Savage Lands, Norion, LadyRebels, me, Treenudity, Free4all, Crazygirl, etc.) from being involved at all in the region for that time.

Yes, it would. But that's not what was requested by Neutered Sputniks.

I have a few comments here:

1- The suggestion that some freakish bug caused the deletion of a player, and just that one player, who was the center of controversy prior to the crash runs counter to probability. Much more likely it was caused by a Mod acting against the wishes of the other Mods / [violet], or the exploitation of a security hole in the system by someone who wanted Francos Spain gone at all costs.

2- By making a special effort to insulate Francos Spain from the consequences of this supposed bug, the Mods are granting Francos Spain protection previously denied to TheDoc, in the case of him losing a lot of endorsements and hence the delegacy of the very same region.

3- The previous ruling of allowing Francos Spain to eject vast numbers of nations from The Pacific for any or no reason at all, ignores the severe grief caused by these actions. These actions show a basic disrespect for fellow players of the game, destroys the enjoyment of the game for many, and constitutes an abuse of regional controls originally intended to allow delegates to handle spammers and other abuse from fellow players.

4- The request to cease activity on The Pacific to allow Francos Spain to regain the delegacy is an attempt to restore a game situation that cannot be restored anymore. Just a few flaws that come to mind:
+ Endorsements previously granted to Francos Spain are confused with a form of active support. Francos Spain used endorsement swapping to gain the endorsements, and any interpretation of this as political support is no more than a wish of the operator for the endorsement mechanic of the game to constitute political support. The reality, especially in large regions, is that barely any conscience thought goes into endorsement swapping. No actual wide support base for Francos Spain exists at all. So, granting 'his supporters' the time to re-endorse him is a falacy in concept.
+ Some of Francos Spain's 'supporters' have been inactive for two weeks. They're not likely to log in in the next 48 hours to re-endorse Francos Spain. Even if they do, there's no guarantee they will re-endorse, as they might be influenced by the contents of their TM inbox.
+ Other endorsements are given or removed, including for other players. Other endorsements vanish because the nations who have given them are timing out and ceasing to exist. Time goes on, even inside NS.
+ Information not available before, has become available now. Actions and plans of the defensive side have been widely exposed, for one.

5- To defend the request above by refering to RP-etiquette (not letting OOC stuff influence IC items), as done by SalusaSecondus, goes entirely outside of the reality of the situation in The Pacific. There's not a single RPG element to it: Francos Spain hasn't RP'd with the people he ejected, there's no way to RP your way back into The Pacific after getting into the ban list either. This isn't about RP at all, it's about one person getting his hands on CONTROL, regional control to be precise, interpreting this as power in and of itself, and subsequently yielding this power in an abusive manner for the sole purpose of maintaining said power. Doing so is indicative of a juvenile mindset, and for this game to cater to that is an enormous error in judgement. Covering this up by refering to the situation as "RP" should be an insult to any serious RP player.

6- The events I've seen today has reduced the respect I had for the Mods, as well as the enjoyment I'm having in playing this game. Considering the reactions I've heard so far, it doesn't seem to me I am alone in this. This situation has been damaging the game, and continues to do so.

7- I have not been convinced by *ANY* of the (sparse) arguments put forth by the Mods in this situation. While it is obvious that Mods cannot be expected to discuss every ruling they make, intervention in a 4500 nation region should not be done lightly, and warrants careful consideration and explanation. I've seen none of that.

8- Despite #1-#7, I will abide by the request to not be involved in The Pacific for 48 hours. The price for this is the respect I had for you.

Ambassador Free4All

If their nations are banned from the Pacific, how are they going to get their UN nations back in without breaking the no multi-UN nations rule?

If their nations are banned from the Pacific, how are they going to get their UN nations back in without breaking the no multi-UN nations rule?

By resigning the banned nation from the UN, and entering a puppet nation in the UN.

Many of us were already doing this when word of this order came down. So, now what. Return our UN status back to our main country? Would InfernoIce be allowed to take initiative when he becomes delegate and possibly be delegate, or will you guys prevent that too. I was so looking forward to having my country removed from the banned list by InfernoIce, and the others too, I'm sure.

No ejections from the region will be allowed for this period. However, nor will moving new nations into the Region.

No ejections from the region will be allowed for this period. However, nor will moving new nations into the Region.

No ejections from the region will be allowed for this period. However, nor will moving new nations into the Region.

Neutered Sputniks, is it legal to move already existing nations into The Pacific? Some existing nations in other regions might choose to assist those opposing Francos Spain by moving to "The Pacific" and endorsing Delphina.

--The Democratic States of Cogitation

I'd prefer they not. The object here is to reset the Pacific to a pre-server crash state - or as close as we can.

When the South Pacific Delegate lost several hundred endorsements to the game glitch...

No mandate was given by the Moderators that the forces that usurped control in that situation should allow the previous Delegate who was intentionally supported by the majority of nations in the region time to regain endorsements...

When Francos took power, the mods referred to this situation, stating that their region regained control without mod intervention and we should too...


So we have been organizing to do so... and once Francos was deleted, our forces started mobilizing in this window of opportunity, assuming that Francos was actually deleted by a moderator for whatever reason.


'Fair Play' was not given to The South Pacific's Delegate... when their status was affected by a Bug in the game itself...

The Mods should not intervene on the behalf of Francos Spain for this reason...


Nations should not be threatened with deletions by the moderators for trying to regain control and unban their friends and allies.

At reset time, InfernoIce will take control currently... He is fully capable of recruiting endorsements to maintain the Delegacy if the members of the Pacific TRULY WANT HIM IN POWER...

The People's voice in the Pacific has been oppressed... more longtime nations have been banned from the region than SUPPORT the current regime...

We do not seek to ban anyone, merely to UNBAN our nations and let the people's voice be heard...

If the mods do not allow the people's voice to be heard now, they do not truly seek to uphold the endorsement method of the United Nations!

Do you see a United Nations tag under my title?


I am here to uphold the game rules, and ensure the game is played by those rules. In this instance, I asked for some of you to show that you are indeed the better man (or woman) and show a little courtesy.

No, simply dont attempt to invade the Pacific

But, you are not gonna intervene, if someone does, right?

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

They haven't intervened when the endorsement bug has hit, so it is likely that this won't be all that enforced. Hopefully it will be, but it woul dbe hard.

Actually, can't they just allow Francos back in the region then pasword protect it for 2 days? This would take care of it.

A simpler approach would be to forbid whoever rises to the top in the Pacific from banning Francos for a certain amount of time, instead of forbidding his allies(InfernoIce, Poskrevyshev) and enemies (Thedoc, The Savage Lands, Norion, LadyRebels, me, Treenudity, Free4all, Crazygirl, etc.) from being involved at all in the region for that time.

I agree with this idea, with the possible modification that no regional banning be allowed by anyone within that 48 hours timeframe.



But enemeies whom he would protect his region from will fly into the region, without him being able to put up the regional wall.

This does not sound particularly fair.

I think it would be far more fair to only allow him to return to the region, shut it off with password by a mod, then allow internal politics to rule for 2 days. After that take away the isolationsit wall and lets see what happens from an internal struggle.

Otherwise you allow a supressive pubnlic to go in and rule what should be best for the region of The Pacific.


EDIT:

P.S. How many nations were deleted as part of the bug? If it was just him, can this actually a bug? There had to have been another cause, no?

No ejections from the region will be allowed for this period. However, nor will moving new nations into the Region.


so, would that mean infernoice is not allowed to eject people when he becomes delegate?

That is. Also, take not, it would mean that new nations can not enter the region.

new nations... but what about old nations?

When the South Pacific Delegate lost several hundred endorsements to the game glitch...

Take a breath.

There's a bit of a difference in the two situations. The lost endorsements were due to a known that was listed on the Known Problems page, along with the remedy.

A nation being deleted was not a Known Problem. Trying to say the two are the same thing is just silly. One was the loss of endorsements the other was the loss of a nation.

Different situations, different resolutions.

When the SP delegate lost endorsements due to the glitch, this to my knowlege was NOT on the list of known problems at that time. This occured at least a couple of months ago and then allowed XYZ to gain power. Maybe I am wrong, but I always thought that was added to the known problems list after that situation?

Personally I would have liked to go the pacific and endorse a more widely supported candidate, and exploit the bug. Think of it as an act of god.

However, if the Mods want everyone to stay out and if they want to rollback to as close to a pre-bug situation as possible it's up to them.

InfernoIce has been named the new Delegate of the Pacific. As a member of the Senate of our region, I have authorized him to remove any UN nations in the region endorsing Delphina who are not listed in the region's UN breakdown (meaning that they are invaders, as they weren't in the region 24 hours ago).

really? seems to me he's ejecting a lot more...
i was in the pacific much longer, and now, i'm visiting kandarin, and many with me

Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of Brownville Jct from the region.
Seconds ago: The Free Land of Bistmath departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Land of Bistmath from the region.
Seconds ago: The Queendom of Delphina departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Queendom of Delphina from the region.
Seconds ago: The Incorporated States of Poledra arrived from Western Europe.
Seconds ago: The People's Republic of Bartavia departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Bartavia from the region.

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and he's pretty fast too:

Seconds ago: The Armed Republic of THAOM departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Armed Republic of THAOM from the region.
Seconds ago: The Democratic States of Texas at El Paso departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Democratic States of Texas at El Paso from the region.
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Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Confederacy of Shaka NuNu from the region.
Seconds ago: The Empire of Philopolis departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Empire of Philopolis from the region.

really? seems to me he's ejecting a lot more...
i was in the pacific much longer, and now, i'm visiting kandarin, and many with me

Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of Brownville Jct from the region.
Seconds ago: The Free Land of Bistmath departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Land of Bistmath from the region.
Seconds ago: The Queendom of Delphina departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Queendom of Delphina from the region.
Seconds ago: The Incorporated States of Poledra arrived from Western Europe.
Seconds ago: The People's Republic of Bartavia departed this region for The Rejected Realms
Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Bartavia from the region.

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I think the mods should step in now. Above all this game should be fun to us all, and this is destroying the fun! It is maybe not grieving, but it comes incredibly close. The new delegate is abusing a loophole in the system on a very agressive manner. He is chasing the fun out of this game faster than lightning!

I wonder if I send my UN member in there, to ask all natives to endorce me, what right has he to eject me?? Why are the mods allowing this??!!!!

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

I have authorized him to remove any UN nations in the region endorsing Delphina who [...]

You do not have the right to 'authorize' that activity. What part of:

No ejections from the region will be allowed for this period. However, nor will moving new nations into the Region.

do you not understand?

In case you hadn't realized, The Pacific is a feeder region. During the crash itself, I watched about 250-300 nations being added to The Pacific, as new nations were being created during the DB downtime. You're 'authorizing' kicking out a LOT of nations which didn't even violate the Mod ruling above. Regarding those who did, it's not your job to enforce the ruling in whatever manner you deem fit.

Ballotonia

# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Aarghania from the region.
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# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Armed Republic of THAOM from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Democratic States of Texas at El Paso departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Democratic States of Texas at El Paso from the region.
# Seconds ago: The People's Republic of Slackervania departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Slackervania from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Confederacy of Shaka NuNu departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Armed Republic of Vogonia departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Armed Republic of Vogonia from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Empire of Valinor and the Valar departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Empire of Valinor and the Valar from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Disputed Territories of Underseebooten departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Disputed Territories of Underseebooten from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Kingdom of Zoomland departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Kingdom of Zoomland from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Allied States of Wicked hogs 4 departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Allied States of Wicked hogs 4 from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Nomadic Peoples of Wenchifer departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Nomadic Peoples of Wenchifer from the region.
# Seconds ago: The United Socialist States of Romanistine departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The United Socialist States of Romanistine from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Republic of Richmand departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of Richmand from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Theocracy of Religious Predators departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Theocracy of Religious Predators from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Republic of FreeSpeachRadioCast departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of FreeSpeachRadioCast from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Republic of Freke departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of Freke from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Empire of Thugzville departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Empire of Thugzville from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Empire of The Idoru departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Empire of The Idoru from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Empire of The All Blacks departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Empire of The All Blacks from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The People's Republic of Sunshine People departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Sunshine People from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Most Serene Republic of Saint Dumas departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Most Serene Republic of Saint Dumas from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Allied States of Zipeedy departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Allied States of Zipeedy from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Republic of Wrightopia departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of Wrightopia from the region
# Seconds ago: The Republic of The island of Asahiem departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of The island of Asahiem from the region.

Okay, so let me get this straight, you guys are allowed to defy a mod order not to invade the Pacific, but the Delegate's not allowed to boot you for it? Give me a break.

who's invading?
i was in the pacific, so i am not invading and i can't help it if people want to endorse me, now can i?

Invading the Pacific, you nut? We were in the Pacific before Inferno become delegate, before the game crash!

*doubles over with laughter*

Oh, so they just chose you at random, Delphina? :roll:

And what do the nations on your list have in common, Dobrudjia? They're all sitting in the Rejected Realms, endorsing Delphina. Maybe you can stay there and try to overthrow Kandarin as lord of the underworld.

yep, they endorsed me, because they know me as someone who will bring peace to the pacific.
you know me too, francos, can you guess who this is?
and we will not overthrow kandarin, for he is not a dictator, but a good leader.

you know me too, francos, can you guess who this is?


Yes, I know Delphina is your UN nation "Crazygirl." Why don't you tell everyone just how many puppets you've moved into the region to harass me? Go on, you brag about it on the Pacific Army offsite forum. It's at least a dozen, I know that much.

well, what can i say, i'm addicted to the pacific region! ;)
lol, yeah, about a dozen now, kinda lost count..

Okay, so let me get this straight, you guys are allowed to defy a mod order not to invade the Pacific, but the Delegate's not allowed to boot you for it? Give me a break.

No such order was ever given, so don't hide behind that. And if such an order had been given it would not be your place to enforce it, that is the job of the moderators. Or are you going to usurp their power now too?

Okay, so let me get this straight, you guys are allowed to defy a mod order not to invade the Pacific, but the Delegate's not allowed to boot you for it? Give me a break.

You where the invader!!!, be a man, fight fair...are you afraid of loosing "power"?, i have an idea, go make a new region for you and all your followers and be happy...i don't care about your political point of view, just let our region be as we want i to be...
or let us fight you, if you are so great, there should be no truble for you to keep the power.

Okay, so let me get this straight, you guys are allowed to defy a mod order not to invade the Pacific, but the Delegate's not allowed to boot you for it? Give me a break.

No such order was ever given, so don't hide behind that. And if such an order had been given it would not be your place to enforce it, that is the job of the moderators. Or are you going to usurp their power now too?


I'm asking that there be a 48 hr moratorium on actions in The Pacific so that Francos can reapply for UN membership and then be re-endorsed to the Delegate position in The Pacific.


No, simply dont attempt to invade the Pacific

You really should read the entire thread before posting, Mark Sloan.

Greetings to all,



My suggestion is to end any dialogue with Franco Spain, Infernoice and other affiliated nations. There is nothing for us to gain in it. Their actions speak for themselves.

We made our case that they are, again, do not respect the NationStates formal rules, it’s rules of common courtesy and right now the ruling of a Game Moderator.

Now I think we should rest our case and let the Moderators decide what action there should be taken.

Not only the welfare of the Pacific is at stake here but more important the integrity of the Moderators has been questioned before. Until now I had no reason to doubt their integrity.
After the recent events in the Pacific doubt has flawed my judgement. This is the time for the Moderators to take control in a way that suits any individual which task it is to judge at disputes between two or more parties.

Neutered Sputniks: Earlier in this topic you asked for courtesy. Courtesy is a two way street. This is the time to give the community of the Pacific an example of courtesy. Listen to them and take their complaints serious. If you do then courtesy will not be another hollow phrase but confidence will be restored. Courtesy and respect will follow in due time.

A Consultant.

----------------------Post taken away by Corinthe, because it also get's spammed away by oponents of Francos!---------------------------

There is no point in quoting :cry:

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Oh looky, I can quote too!



You really should read the entire thread before posting, Mark Sloan.

Asking is not the same as ordering.

And also, let's look at what you said in context:


So what do you want us to do? Ask people to re-endorse him?!

No, simply dont attempt to invade the Pacific

Again, asking is NOT the same as ordering. Next time post the quote in context. The question asked of NS was phrased as "What do you want us to do?" not "what are you ordering us to do?" Big difference.

From the other thread:
In response to Ackbar, I am not making a ruling. Simply requesting that the players of this game respect my wishes and allow Francos to return to a pre-bug status.

Perhaps YOU are the one who should start reading things.

This appears to have gone very wrong. The 'rightful' delegate has not been restored; a new delegate has exploited the bug. The pacific has been invaded and mass ejections have taken place, two things Sputnik asked not to happen.

The only way out I see is for the Mods to remove the ban list and close off the delegate’s controls for a week or something. That is if the Mods can do that.

I am sure Sputnik would like to leave this mess, but as of now, there has been no fair play and the mess has gotten worse with more unhappy players rattling around this forum. Sputnik’s idea was good but as it turned out too utopian, considering the commitment of affected players and their determination to see the outcome they favour happen.

I have been watching the happenings in The Pacific, and I consider that the moderators have been unbelievably weak in their handling of this situation. The recent ejection of around 150 nations by InfernoIce is a clear example of griefing, but what action will the moderators take? To call the deletion of Francos Spain 'a bug' is laughable. In my region The Republic of Part two nigga hata was deleted during the recent 'outage'. I certainly do not believe that this was 'a bug', but that this nation was deliberately deleted, which is what I believe happened to Francos Spain although nobody will admit it! The moderators have made a total mess of this situation and now have no idea as to what action they should take. There have been enough moderators on-line since the most recent ejections, and I am sure many ex-members of The Pacific have made them aware of what has been going on, yet there has been no response from them on this thread or any other.

We await we great anticipation to see what action, if any, the moderators will take.

I originally started in The Pacific. I was ejected and banned by Francos Spain soon after he took the delegacy because I had 1/4 the number of endorsements he had.

Seeing as though one of Francos little chums got the delegacy again, a similar number of ejections and bannings will most likely occur. I have read all of the postings from both sides of the argument and the moderators comments.

I believe this game was created primarily as publicity for a book and secondly for fun. As The Pacific is one of a few regions where people start the game I feel that should provide a better example to the new players. All of the controversy is likely to send people away quite quickly, therefore not achieving either of the objectives I believe the site to be for.

I can not see any solutions that will make everyone happy. Each person has their own ideas of what is legally right and morally right.

The suggestion I make is that every UN nation, in The Pacific, is randomly assigned to a "new" starter region and no nation at all is allowed to move to The Pacific for a week (or so). This will allow the new players to enjoy the game and also stop this contant harassment from both sides of the fence.

The only good I see from this is that all of the ejections created some new Regions.

Thank you.

I still think that an end to the ban list and a week of no delegate controls would be the most neutral solution. Restoring the status quo appears to have gone down a creek without a paddle.

removing the ban list is also a very good option. Countries should only be allowed to be banned from regions that have been created, NOT starter regions. Removing a ban list from "starter" regions would make it almost impossible for players like Francos and InfernoIce to maintain their power. Good, strong leaders would come through and that is what I would think the creator of the game would want for the new players.

get out, this is a local forum for local people! :wink:

removing the ban list is also a very good option. Countries should only be allowed to be banned from regions that have been created, NOT starter regions. Removing a ban list from "starter" regions would make it almost impossible for players like Francos and InfernoIce to maintain their power. Good, strong leaders would come through and that is what I would think the creator of the game would want for the new players.

I didn't even think about doing it permanently but yes, putting the birthing regions on the same basis as the rejected realms could be a long term solution. Anyone who was rude etc could be reported to the Mods as Kandarin does for the rejected realms.

well it would appear that you and I have solved this problem and it is just for the mods to put it into practice. :)

well it would appear that you and I have solved this problem and it is just for the mods to put it into practice. :)

I agree that this is an excellent solution. The chances of the moderators putting this into action are close to zero though. It is now almost 4 hours since the large scale ejections in The Pacific, and still no moderator response!

I too would agree with no ban setting and also no password protection on the birthing regions.

There's already no password protection on the pacific regions and as we're suggesting that the pacific regions be put on the same technical basis as an exisiting region (rejected realms) it may be a simple change to implement.

Okay Stephistan you can lock this thread we solved the issue. :D

mmm, that actually sounds like a good idea! ;)
now let's hope the mods will wake up soon, and listen to it..

I don't think Mods can change the behaviour of special regions, as I suspect it to be a hardcoded thing, but they could mimic the behaviour until then by appointing one of them (or me ;) ) as founder of The Pacific, clearing the banlist, and removing delegate access to region control. I'll even volunteer to write a nice new World Factbook Entry for the region.

Ballotonia

founder of the pacific?
lol, i thought the pacifics and the rr couldn't have a founder?
otherwise, i'll volunteer ;)
i'll even promise not to kick out francos and infernoice ;)

I agree. No banning/ejecting in the Pacifics and in the RR. This will limit power of dictators like Francos Spain and 1 Infinite Loop.

I hadn’t realised I infinite loop was a dictator, he always seemed well liked in his region…

I hadn’t realised I infinite loop was a dictator, he always seemed well liked in his region…

He's not a dictator. Fiesty is just a puppet of someone who was booted for spamming. Trying to slander someone with a puppet takes real guts. :roll:

Lets review the reasons for banning and password protection controls.

Before there were banning and password protection controls invasions would occur for all regions. No region was safe. If you wanted to have a private region, tough. If any SERIOUS problems arised then the admin would be required to take care of it. After the invasion of the Heartland it was decided that regions should be afforded some sort of protection. Three controls were put into place each with it's own reason:

1.) Password protection - Allow a person or group of persons to have a region in which them, their friends, and those they invite to be safe from invasions and have their own clique.
2.) Banning - To remove unwanted elements from the region whether it be for spamming/rudeness/hair color, whatever.
3.) Founder status - If something untoward happened to a region the person who created the region could take steps to correct it without moderator intervention.

These controls were put into place to relieve the moderators and the admins of the burden of having to babysit the regions. What you are proposing is that the admins and moderators go back to policing 6 of the largest regions in NationStates. This solution negates much of the reason for having controls in the first place.

Always has to be a dissenter eh?

i think you just enjoy that...

Three controls were put into place each with it's own reason:
1.) Password protection - Allow a person or group of persons to have a region in which them, their friends, and those they invite to be safe from invasions and have their own clique.
2.) Banning - To remove unwanted elements from the region whether it be for spamming/rudeness/hair color, whatever.
3.) Founder status - If something untoward happened to a region the person who created the region could take steps to correct it without moderator intervention.

Founder status is not a control. It's a position that grants access to the previous two controls (plus deciding on whether or not the delegate has access to those). The suggestion is not to get rid of Founders, just to remove option #2 from the pacifics. Please note that #1 and #3 already doesn't apply to the pacifics. It's not an unheard of situation, as the RR is already in that position, and doing just fine, BTW.

What you are proposing is that the admins and moderators go back to policing 6 of the largest regions in NationStates.

What's to police? In case you don't know, spammers are already roaming free through the pacifics, even WITH the delegate having access to the banning option.

Ballotonia

I should have known not to take the mods seriously about that 48 hour no ban deal,

What's to police? In case you don't know, spammers are already roaming free through the pacifics, even WITH the delegate having access to the banning option.

I concur, those controls are important for the player controlled regions but these birthing regions are more akin to the rejected realms. If anyone can put together an army of four hundred odd nations (Franco's endorsements before concerns were raised over his attitude) and move them all into a pacific region I'll be very surprised.

Spammer are everywhere and ultimately ejecting them just moves them on, fine for a small region but why should Kandarin have to file reports on spammers and not be able to eject them when the pacifics can?

This is not attack on any of the pacific delegate, just a suggestion to nuke the rather large headache that we all appear to be having, it's also a recognition that the pacifics are not normal regions.

Founder status is not a control. It's a position that grants access to the previous two controls (plus deciding on whether or not the delegate has access to those).

Technicality. I used control to make it simple. If you object to it then replace the word "control" with "features".


The suggestion is not to get rid of Founders, just to remove option #2 from the pacifics. Please note that #1 and #3 already doesn't apply to the pacifics.

I never said get rid of founders, I was referring to the ongoing discussion which was removing banning ability from the pacifics.


It's not an unheard of situation, as the RR is already in that position, and doing just fine, BTW.

I knew someone was going to make me explain this. The Rejected Ralms are not doing "just fine". Kandarin has to continually bring the issue of spammers up to the moderators. Then wait until something happens. So now you have at least two people doing the job of one. As has been stated, the moderators do not have a lot of time to deal with these situations.
The Rejected Realms can't have banning ability. Where would the nations go? The pacifics do not have this problem. Can you imagine not only Kandarin but now five other delegates deluging the moderators with spamming complaints? Each one has to be investigated before action can be taken.



What's to police? In case you don't know, spammers are already roaming free through the pacifics, even WITH the delegate having access to the banning option.
Ballotonia
Yes, but who deals with the spammers? Only in the rejected realms does it take a moderator. The banning can't stop someone from spamming but it can remove them so it does not occur anymore.

*snip*
but why should Kandarin have to file reports on spammers and not be able to eject them when the pacifics can?
*snip*


Where would they go when they are banned?

There was a discussion about this a while ago to figure out how we could allow the delegate in the rejected realms to ban. All sorts of crazy (and some good) schemes were presented but ultimately none of them were implemented. What we have now is the easiest way to accomplish the banning feature although it leaves one region depending on the mods.

Francos Spain may be gone but Inferno Ice has literally DONE THE SAMETHING AS FRANCOS!..ejected half the people and keeps banning people..WIT NO REASON AT ALL..talk about irony again..the new delegate is allied wit him..nations have been ejected and still fightin..this is unfair..InfernoIce along wit Francos Spain are just being selfish and cruel to the other nations..it is not right..please stop this from happening..the game has been twisted and destroyed in the Pacific..save the pacific please

It would appear that no-one was really happy with this outcome. The request to not invade was not honoured (I did not honour it because I felt that TheDoc lost his delegacy at least in part to the bug-induced loss of many of his endorsements in the first place,<for lack of a better term; an act of "God."> which was not acted upon with moderation.) The request to not eject and ban has also not been honoured and Infernoice immediately became what everyone expected him to become, another despot. Okay, I and many other regions paid for our actions with ejection and banning. Gotta come back with a different and better plan.

So how is it that he gets "the popular vote?" Simple; He got the delegacy while not even being on-line because of thoughtless endorsement trading. Most of his votes were from other nations who were not on-line at the time of the battle. That will give people something to think about now I would expect. There are some 4000-5000 nations in that region. (1000-2500 UN nations?) If one out of 10 put some thought into their endorsements this whole situation would correct itself.

People should really refrain from invoking moderation if at all possible because the moderators are really oversubscribed in settling disputes. We can make this mess better by UNINVOLVING the moderators from it and we will all duke it out like the "real world" has to do. As for "Acts of God" or other freaky occurrences, they happen in the real world too and who can complain that some horrible despot in ancient history choked to death on a fishbone or was otherwise taken off the scene by some accident, and many, many lives were spared by that seemingly random event. Who would want to "reset the clock" on something like that in the interest of life playing fair? Real life is not fair and strange things happen here too. Let's all deal with our bad luck and take our breaks when we can get them.

In other countries a system of arbiters exists to keep the court system from getting overloaded with disputes. It is a common practice for judges to punish both plaintiff and defendant alike with a settlement beneficial to neither party, for failing to settle their dispute in arbitration and so burdening the court system.

Think something like that could be happening here?

Let's get back to the game, figure out what went wrong, fix it and kick some butt in The Pacific!

(Maybe a campaign to inform people of the evils of endorsement swapping?)

Irrulan

I hadn’t realised I infinite loop was a dictator, he always seemed well liked in his region…

He's not a dictator. Fiesty is just a puppet of someone who was booted for spamming. Trying to slander someone with a puppet takes real guts. :roll:

There is a reason that The East Pacific has far fewer nations than the other Pacifics. 1 Infinite Loop has ejected many times more nations than Francos ever did for the sole reason of their having too many endorsements. 1 Infinite Loop just does it over a much longer period of time so it didn't look like obvious griefing.

We the nations, have to conjure up this debacle of the Pacific..we will not let down our brothers and sisters in that nation..nor is it right for infernoice, Francospain and the others to run the show and destroy what we live for in every society..and that is freedom..As you can see the people who DO support InfernoIce and his tyrants now speak due to the less resistance..u ask why? Cause their COWARDS..Cowards to the fact that WE WERE STRONGER...WE WERE POWERFUL..if this was a real battlefield..i'm sure we would've sent them back to hell through and back again...Satan would've loved it..But it is not right for this to happen..IT Is not right for the Pacific to be treated like this..WE WILL RISE LIKE THE SUN...WE WILL SHINE LIKE THE STARS AND THEY WILL REMEMBER US CALLING OUT..FREEDOM!..For every blood, sweat, and tear shed for now on..will be for the Pacific..AND ANY OTHER NATION TORN APART BY TYRANNY..gather you allies my friends, gather the people, for these are the times that make a boy a man..a girl a woman...and us into hero's..its not over till the Pacific and other nations dwindling in corruption and evil are batted away into Hade's River..FOR WE SHALL FIGHT TO OUR DEATHS..MAY THE PACIFIC LIVE IN OUR HEARTS! FREEDOM! god bless you all and good luck..Patience is virtue but WE WILL WIN THIS WAR!

Shaka NuNu


P.S..support my post in the Internation Incidents Forum..1st or 2nd page..check out..spread ideas, vote, and other things..take care all of you..telegram me if u wish at Shaka NuNu or this name..God bless you all

i think you just enjoy that...

No, not really. I try to help when someone needs help but there are so many other fine players and helpers in this game that it usually only duplicates efforts. When I see something that I don't agree with though and no one else states that position I like to bring it up.

Consider it a compliment to the fine players of this game that I don't need to help anyone often.

*snip*
but why should Kandarin have to file reports on spammers and not be able to eject them when the pacifics can?
*snip*


Where would they go when they are banned?

There was a discussion about this a while ago to figure out how we could allow the delegate in the rejected realms to ban. All sorts of crazy (and some good) schemes were presented but ultimately none of them were implemented. What we have now is the easiest way to accomplish the banning feature although it leaves one region depending on the mods.

You've got the wrong end of the stick, I'm suggesting that the pacifics lose the ability to ban not that Kandarin gets it.

We all know the hard work Kandarin has to do in reporting spammers but that's where anyone who spams somewhere else gets sent to, the problem should not be as bad in the pacifics, plus it would spread the reporting issue between Kandarin and the pacifics' delegates.

Whilst there is an issue about Mod workload this suggestions makes no impact on it, perhaps there should be more mods.

*snip*
but why should Kandarin have to file reports on spammers and not be able to eject them when the pacifics can?
*snip*


Maybe the pacifics :D

*snip*
but why should Kandarin have to file reports on spammers and not be able to eject them when the pacifics can?
*snip*


Where would they go when they are banned?

There was a discussion about this a while ago to figure out how we could allow the delegate in the rejected realms to ban. All sorts of crazy (and some good) schemes were presented but ultimately none of them were implemented. What we have now is the easiest way to accomplish the banning feature although it leaves one region depending on the mods.

He desn't have to ban them, i think it's enough to gag 'em. BTW, why is gag not implemented in this game? Somebody spams, gag, and that's all. You don't have to ban people. This would be useful in the Pacifics and RR especially... It will make a lot of controversies disappear...
What do you say about this?

So since the mods' prohibition on ejection and banning during the 48 hour window was ignored with no response from the them, does this mean it is permitted to start our invasion now?

So since the mods' prohibition on ejection and banning during the 48 hour window was ignored with no response from the them, does this mean it is permitted to start our invasion now?

perhaps, if infernoice bans nations we may invade to restore the delegacy.

Can you imagine not only Kandarin but now five other delegates deluging the moderators with spamming complaints?

The flaw in this logic is the implicit assumption that there will be six time as many spammers. There won't be. Surely there will be more reports, that much will be likely.

Yes, but who deals with the spammers? Only in the rejected realms does it take a moderator.

Getting rid of spammers is a problem for every region, not just those regions where there's nobody to ban spammers. Did you miss those posts where Francos Spain was complaining about people spamming The Pacific message board with anti-Francos Spain messages, and how banishments did nothing whatsoever to help him out?

The region of Europe had a problem with spammers for a while, and they have a Founder plus Delegate. They ended up pass-locking their region for a limited time plus asking assistance from Mods anyway.

People who insist on spamming are griefing. There's nothing in the game right now that will truly get rid of these people other than Mods. Stuff like banishments or even passwords serve to make it more difficult to spam a regional message board, but if players are absolutely determined there's no way to prevent it other than keeping everybody out at all times.

Ballotonia

So since the mods' prohibition on ejection and banning during the 48 hour window was ignored with no response from the them, does this mean it is permitted to start our invasion now?

No, you should let the whole world see that you are a better person, and let them grieve the complete region! After all, the Neut asked you too :evil:

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

Can you imagine not only Kandarin but now five other delegates deluging the moderators with spamming complaints?

The flaw in this logic is the implicit assumption that there will be six time as many spammers. There won't be. Surely there will be more reports, that much will be likely.

Good point. I also fail to see how funnelling spammers into The Rejected Realms reduces their frequency.

No one has held their bargain of the deal..InfernoIce has banned literally hundreds of nations and ejected nations threatening tot ake the delegate position and oppostion..I am sorry..but it is not right for this to happen again..InfernoIce has done the samething as FrancosSpain...Francos Spain is back as well..tons of nations were trying to liberate the pacific now all of them who opposed and tried to save the pacific are ejected, banned, and disappeared..this is not right nor fair to NS players..I agree wit NuMetal..I just believe..that I wish this could b dealt ina peaceful situation..this may very well come to war..and I will sit and watch..though i hope the pacific regains its fairness and purity it once had..

Shaka NuNu

So each new delegate resets the 40% rule?
great, wonderfull!

In my view, the number should be a great deal lower, it's bad enough that a Delegate ejects their nearest competitors but to have the bar raised so high effectivelly ties the hands of the Mods (who should be able to deal with this injustice) and means the game becomes bias toward whatever prat is acting up this week...

Can you imagine not only Kandarin but now five other delegates deluging the moderators with spamming complaints?

The flaw in this logic is the implicit assumption that there will be six time as many spammers. There won't be. Surely there will be more reports, that much will be likely.


Friend, I think we are having a semantics issue. I believe you just repeated what I said. I didn't say there would be six times the amount of complaints but that there would be six delegates now having to file complaints.


People who insist on spamming are griefing. There's nothing in the game right now that will truly get rid of these people other than Mods. Stuff like banishments or even passwords serve to make it more difficult to spam a regional message board, but if players are absolutely determined there's no way to prevent it other than keeping everybody out at all times.

Ballotonia

Yes, but perhaps you weren't around in the days were you just had to wait for a moderator/admin to show up before the spamming stopped. The spamming got so bad that people were becoming experts at repeatedly placing messages on the board so that other people could not put up a message. Ten messages in 20 seconds.
What stopped that was banning. Removing the banning from any region only opens it up to that same type of behavior again.

Can you imagine not only Kandarin but now five other delegates deluging the moderators with spamming complaints?

The flaw in this logic is the implicit assumption that there will be six time as many spammers. There won't be. Surely there will be more reports, that much will be likely.

Good point. I also fail to see how funnelling spammers into The Rejected Realms reduces their frequency.

I never said it would. The reason for the rejected realms entire existence is so that those who spam/exhibit bad behavior are in a region where it doesn't matter. With all due respect to Kandarin, the Rejected Realms is the dumping ground for this type of behavior. Not the Pacifics.

You've got the wrong end of the stick, I'm suggesting that the pacifics lose the ability to ban not that Kandarin gets it.

I understand your argument, I am presenting why I think it is a bad idea, i.e. - it requires moderator intervention to continue with the regions business.


Whilst there is an issue about Mod workload this suggestions makes no impact on it, perhaps there should be more mods.
I agree. The mods are currently overworked. If this scheme is implementeed more game mods should be installed.

and also the dumping place for anyone who even dares to say something against francos or infernoice

I didn't say there would be six times the amount of complaints but that there would be six delegates now having to file complaints.

Ok, and why does it matter who files the complaints? (BTW, non-delegates can submit spam complaints too)

Ten messages in 20 seconds. What stopped that was banning. Removing the banning from any region only opens it up to that same type of behavior again.

That kind of behaviour is still happening today, including in regions that have both an active Founder and Delegate. What has reduced it over time is the presence of Mods to DEAT nations (and if needed their IPs) who keep doing that stuff. A Delegate or Founder has pretty low odds of hitting a spammer with bannishment when the time of presence in the region is well below a minute.

You seem to be claiming the banishment option is a great tool to combat spammers. It isn't.

Ballotonia

Ok, and why does it matter who files the complaints? (BTW, non-delegates can submit spam complaints too)

It doesn't. Whats your point?


That kind of behaviour is still happening today, including in regions that have both an active Founder and Delegate.
*snip*
You seem to be claiming the banishment option is a great tool to combat spammers. It isn't.
Ballotonia
No, let me repeat something I said earlier:

These controls were put into place to relieve the moderators and the admins of the burden of having to babysit the regions.

The controls can't let you see who will be spamming, only to deal with it when it occurs. Once it occurs you can deal with it without needing a moderator. Only in the rejected realms do you need a moderator.

The controls can't let you see who will be spamming, only to deal with it when it occurs. Once it occurs you can deal with it without needing a moderator. Only in the rejected realms do you need a moderator.

No, by the time you see your region has been spammed, you can't banish the perpetrator as he/she will have moved to another region. Then you're left with one option only: filing a Mod report on it and hoping they can handle the problem. Cause that spammer WILL be back.

Ballotonia

Juxta...

allow me to interpose my own experience while Delegate to the Pacific...


I only found it necessary to ban as many nations from the region as I could count on my hands for spamming...

a) because some were deleted by mods before I logged in
b) because others had moved on, and it was no longer possible or necessary to ban them while out of the region
c) other nations in the Pacific had filed Mod reports and gotten them removed.


this is over several weeks as Delegate, and I actually banned more nations from a then believed RRA invasion force into our region... I was wrong at the time for doing so, which I admit now... I was too hasty with enacting the ban ability on their dozen or so nations.


Removing the ban feature from the Pacifics and RR, would not increase the overall number of mod reports... it would actually be equivalent since most of the time, I reported offensive players first, since I preferred not to dump them on someone else

The controls can't let you see who will be spamming, only to deal with it when it occurs. Once it occurs you can deal with it without needing a moderator. Only in the rejected realms do you need a moderator.

No, by the time you see your region has been spammed, you can't banish the perpetrator as he/she will have moved to another region. Then you're left with one option only: filing a Mod report on it and hoping they can handle the problem. Cause that spammer WILL be back.

On this point, I believe that Ballotonia is correct: Founders and Delegates can only ban nations that are present in the region. Theoretically, nations that leave before the Founder or Delegate can react cannot be banned by Founders or Delegates.

Spammers that are slow enough to stick around in a region can be banned.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."

The controls can't let you see who will be spamming, only to deal with it when it occurs. Once it occurs you can deal with it without needing a moderator. Only in the rejected realms do you need a moderator.

No, by the time you see your region has been spammed, you can't banish the perpetrator as he/she will have moved to another region. Then you're left with one option only: filing a Mod report on it and hoping they can handle the problem. Cause that spammer WILL be back.

Ballotonia

That's assuming a lot. If this were the case then why have banning ability at all in any region? You are saying it does no good.

This is a flaw in the banning scheme, all nations, regardless of whether they are in your region or not should be able to be added to the ban list. It is very frustrating when you get one of the "region hoppers" however they are in the minority. Most spammers will hang around to try and make you angry if they are truly spamming.

that would mean they WANT to be banned, and so with banning them, you're actually doing them a favor...

but serious, they really do move on after they have spammed a region, i have seen it many times before..

It was indeed a bug. Francos has been resurrected, and I am asking that no actions be taken in The Pacific for 48 hours to allow Francos to regain UN membership, and his delegate position.

I ask this in the interest of fair play.


No ejections from the region will be allowed for this period. However, nor will moving new nations into the Region.





What we have here are two entirely different statements by Neut that now require moderator intervention to sort out the situation.

a) Neut URGES us to let Francos return to the Delegacy, which is a statistical improbablity since many of the nations who remained endorsing him WERE, and still ARE inactive, WELL over 200 nations that HAD endorsed him before the debacle of bannings began, have since removed those endorsements because of the evidence placed before them, and his successor, InfernoIce already was in line with over 100 endorsements, also with a fair number from nations inactive over 10 days.

b) Neut makes a RULING that no further bans will be allowed during his imposed 48-hour grace period, yet, InfernoIce bans MANY nations that were in the Pacific PRE-CRASH, some as legitimate plants from the opposition to Francos Spain, such as Delphina who was the UN nation of choice for gaining endorsements, and others who merely agreed with our position... even MORE upsetting, other nations that were created during the crash downtime by uninvolved parties that were innocently fed into this chaos.



# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Aarghania from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Land of Bistmath from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Queendom of Delphina from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Bartavia from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The United Socialist States of Arsenicburg from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Geomania from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Land of Fudgetopia from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Dominion of Freemon from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Free Radicals of Mu-Mu from the region.
1 minute ago: The Republic of Fischer Land departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The United Socialist States of Greater Arkania from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Dictatorship of Great Whale Minions from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Geomania from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Republic of Conger Eel arrived from Pacific Army.
# 1 minute ago: The Free Land of Fudgetopia departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Land of Fudgetopia from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Dominion of Freemon departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Holy Empire of Mirabellis departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Empire of Mirabellis from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Free Republic of Jover departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Republic of Jover from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Theocracy of Irrulan departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Theocracy of Irrulan from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Free Land of Groovesnakistan departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Land of Groovesnakistan from the region.
# Seconds ago: The United Socialist States of Greater Arkania departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The United Socialist States of Greater Arkania from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Empire of Philopolis from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Republic of Nassau-Orange departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Republic of Nassau-Orange from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Free Land of Music and Adoration departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Land of Music and Adoration from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Empire of Mirabellis departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Empire of Mirabellis from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Free Republic of Jover departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Free Republic of Jover from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Theocracy of Irrulan departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Democratic States of Texas at El Paso departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Democratic States of Texas at El Paso from the region.
# Seconds ago: The People's Republic of Slackervania departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Slackervania from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Confederacy of Shaka NuNu departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Confederacy of Shaka NuNu from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Empire of Philopolis departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Empire of Philopolis from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Republic of Nassau-Orange departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Republic of Nassau-Orange from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Nomadic Peoples of Thorn in your Flesh from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Oppressed Peoples of The Fifty-Third State departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Oppressed Peoples of The Fifty-Third State from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Armed Republic of THAOM departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Armed Republic of THAOM from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Democratic States of Texas at El Paso departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Democratic States of Texas at El Paso from the region.
# Seconds ago: The People's Republic of Slackervania departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Slackervania from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Confederacy of Shaka NuNu departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Armed Republic of Vogonia departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Armed Republic of Vogonia from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Empire of Valinor and the Valar departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Empire of Valinor and the Valar from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Disputed Territories of Underseebooten departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Disputed Territories of Underseebooten from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Kingdom of Zoomland departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Kingdom of Zoomland from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Allied States of Wicked hogs 4 departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Allied States of Wicked hogs 4 from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Nomadic Peoples of Wenchifer departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Nomadic Peoples of Wenchifer from the region.
# Seconds ago: The United Socialist States of Romanistine departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The United Socialist States of Romanistine from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Republic of Richmand departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of Richmand from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Theocracy of Religious Predators departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Theocracy of Religious Predators from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Republic of FreeSpeachRadioCast departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of FreeSpeachRadioCast from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Republic of Freke departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of Freke from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Empire of Thugzville departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Empire of Thugzville from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Empire of The Idoru departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Empire of The Idoru from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Holy Empire of The All Blacks departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Holy Empire of The All Blacks from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The People's Republic of Sunshine People departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The People's Republic of Sunshine People from the region.
# 1 minute ago: The Most Serene Republic of Saint Dumas departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# 1 minute ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Most Serene Republic of Saint Dumas from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Allied States of Zipeedy departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Allied States of Zipeedy from the region.
# Seconds ago: The Republic of Wrightopia departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of Wrightopia from the region
# Seconds ago: The Republic of The island of Asahiem departed this region for The Rejected Realms
# Seconds ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of The island of Asahiem from the region.






The first post from Neut was not a ruling, and Neut specifically addressed this later to say so.


However now, InfernoIce has SEVERELY violated the second of Neutered Sputnik's posts, because of this, the longstanding defensive actions of the Pacific Army, the position of its plants and nations prepared to move in to assist in the unbanning of Pacific natives has been compromised...

InfernoIce cannot claim he banned only invaders.... the mods can prove this to themselves I am sure by tracking Nation movements over the last few days... Delphina and several others were in the nation pre-crash and banned immeadiately following InfernoIce's rise to power... contrary to the moderator ruling.


InfernoIce has violated the Mod ruling, and we ask Mod intervention to assist in sorting this out.

pretty long list, and that's not all of them either, i believe....

This is a flaw in the banning scheme, all nations, regardless of whether they are in your region or not should be able to be added to the ban list.

That is a feature that has been requested before. So far it has not been implemented.

Banning works great to maintain control of a region, either by kicking out an invasion force, or invaders tactically kicking out the previous delegate, or a delegate who 'cleans house' by kicking out any nation he or she doesn't like for whatever reason (up to a certain limit which is meaningless in a region as large as The Pacific). While it can be used well by a founder or delegate to silence someone who's continued presence has become a disturbance to a region, its potential for abuse is staggering.

While declared 'legal' by the Mods, I regard what Francos Spain has done, as well wat InfernoIce has done, to be an abuse of the banning feature. Banning a nation should be a rarity. Something occasionally done, even if just for personal gain, or in a bigger quantity to repel an invasion force. What we see in The Pacific is IMHO mass-griefing, which ruins the game severely for many, many players. While this can be a problem in many regions, the risk of problems like this is specifically large in the pacifics due to a combination of region size, percentage of new and inexperienced / uninformed players, the endorsement-system encouraging blind swapping, and inherent absence of Founders.

Ballotonia

This is a flaw in the banning scheme, all nations, regardless of whether they are in your region or not should be able to be added to the ban list.

What we see in The Pacific is IMHO mass-griefing, which ruins the game severely for many, many players.

While the term "griefing" is a subjective term, at present, it is being treated as a technical term here in NationStates (if I remember correctly). Given that technical context, what Francos Spain was doing was not "griefing".

This is just a notation about the use of terminology; you may carry on with your discussion.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Banning works great to maintain control of a region, either by kicking out an invasion force, or invaders tactically kicking out the previous delegate, or a delegate who 'cleans house' by kicking out any nation he or she doesn't like for whatever reason (up to a certain limit which is meaningless in a region as large as The Pacific). While it can be used well by a founder or delegate to silence someone who's continued presence has become a disturbance to a region, its potential for abuse is staggering.


So why allow banning at all? Why just remove it from the RR and the pacifics? Why not everywhere?
My argument is that removing it from the pacifics will make the moderators job harder. The counter argument is that it is only marginally useful anyway so why have it?

It is indeed a subjective term Cogitation...

because there is no solid context in the rules to DEFINE griefing...


Nowhere in the rules is it stated that there is a percentage necessary to become a 'griefing' Delegate...

However, it is mentioned that 'invading' delegates cannot mass-eject 'natives' and lock off the region to them...

We've seen hundreds of nations banned from the Pacific... Only the moderators can tell just how many are on the Ban list at this point... but I assume it is reaching, if not passed the 10% mark. In a region of formerly 5K+ nations... that SHOULD be considered offensive...

We're talking at MINIMUM, THREE TIMES more nations ejected than the current Delegate has endorsements, in a handful of days...

By now it has become clear that the majority of the active Pacific seeks to remove these tyrants... but on this battlefield... we're a bunch of farmers with rocks, trying to charge a fully armed battleship in our fishing boats... our only weapon... is praying for an act of god that causes the tyrants to run out of ammunition.... Yesterday their guns jammed, but they cleaned them out too quickly.

What are our other options?

Juxta... if it makes the mods job any more difficult...

it would only be because MORE Delegates than just Kandarin are able to watch for problem nations to report... thereby... rather than merely ejecting them TO Kandarin... the Pacifics then can report the problem themselves... effectively taking less time to report the same number of problem nations...

READ EVERYTHING THEDOC Said and it is correct my friends, InfernoIce, as I was saying before has went against the mods request..and now nations WILL seek action to deploy forces and help the pacific...We seek mod intervention to get rid of InfernoIce..he has done unfair played and ejected tons of nations..I am sorry..but Thedoc is correct..if nothin is done no fairness will come to the nation and it will die to cruelty continued by InfernoIce and others..please intervene..

Shaka NuNu

Thedoc I highly agree with u..r options have now come down to invasion, gettin a mod, tryin to get people to unendorse inferno, or jsut watch here sittin the pacific die..its horrible..all those options r slim and have risks..No matter wut..people r gonna take a course of action and try to save the pacific..it is a home to many..and its not right to take away a home from nations who love it dearly..yes inferno and francos have destroyed the pacific..but wut we want is peace and fairness..can't anyone do anythin to save the pacific? i will not sit here watch he region die..I'm wit thedoc..

Juxta... if it makes the mods job any more difficult...
it would only be because MORE Delegates than just Kandarin are able to watch for problem nations to report... thereby... rather than merely ejecting them TO Kandarin... the Pacifics then can report the problem themselves... effectively taking less time to report the same number of problem nations...


So your argument is that delegates are no better than a set of eyes to report actions to the moderators and being able to eject nations from a region is not helping anyone, only hurting the RR.
So I ask again, why should any region be able to ban or eject nations if this is the case?

a) because the smaller nations are player created, and have many have specific themes to them... PLAYER-CREATED nations which are able to enact Founders and set up their own play-environment... should still be able to protect that environment from larger outside forces...

b) my argument is that the pacifics AND the RR, = multiple sets of eyes to report problems to the Moderators, and not just one set in the RR... I didn't make the argument that ejecting is not helpful... at times it can be... but in massive regions on par with the Pacifics, ejections are less necessary to prevent invasion forces, and if the Delegates in those regions cannot access the Ban function... there is far less reason for anyone to take it over... outside of personal pride at gaining the Delegate status... in which case, once they've accomplished their mission of pride, they will either stay in power (if the region en masse supports them) or leave (voluntarily or by a return to another Nation with more support)

when nastic was ejected from the north pacific cause he was gonna become the delegate..the nations stood up agains thte delegate..apparently the mods unbanned nastic and he came back wit all his endorsements becommin the new delegate..due to the unfairness of the delegate he lost his endorsements..i think the pacific will stand again but when? use that as an example of the tyrnany of the pacific even worse..we need to put inferno out...

Yes, but perhaps you weren't around in the days were you just had to wait for a moderator/admin to show up before the spamming stopped. The spamming got so bad that people were becoming experts at repeatedly placing messages on the board so that other people could not put up a message. Ten messages in 20 seconds.
What stopped that was banning. Removing the banning from any region only opens it up to that same type of behavior again.

This is a flaw in the banning scheme, all nations, regardless of whether they are in your region or not should be able to be added to the ban list. It is very frustrating when you get one of the "region hoppers" however they are in the minority. Most spammers will hang around to try and make you angry if they are truly spamming.

So why allow banning at all? Why just remove it from the RR and the pacifics? Why not everywhere?
My argument is that removing it from the pacifics will make the moderators job harder. The counter argument is that it is only marginally useful anyway so why have it?

Sorry, i don't like to repeat myself, or to write in bold, or.. but am i invisible ?! :(

"He desn't have to ban them, i think it's enough to gag 'em. BTW, why is gag not implemented in this game? Somebody spams, gag, and that's all. You don't have to ban people. This would be useful in the Pacifics, and RR especially... It will make a lot of controversies disappear...
What do you say about this?"

So?

a) because the smaller nations are player created, and have many have specific themes to them... PLAYER-CREATED nations which are able to enact Founders and set up their own play-environment... should still be able to protect that environment from larger outside forces...

b) my argument is that the pacifics AND the RR, = multiple sets of eyes to report problems to the Moderators, and not just one set in the RR... I didn't make the argument that ejecting is not helpful... at times it can be... but in massive regions on par with the Pacifics, ejections are less necessary to prevent invasion forces, and if the Delegates in those regions cannot access the Ban function... there is far less reason for anyone to take it over... outside of personal pride at gaining the Delegate status... in which case, once they've accomplished their mission of pride, they will either stay in power (if the region en masse supports them) or leave (voluntarily or by a return to another Nation with more support)

Thedoc,
Your reply is dealing with the ejection of possible invasion forces as the use for banning. I've never seen the ban feature as an effective tool against invasion forces. Sure, it would work if needed but any skilled invasion force can get around it. I've seen the password protection as the tool to stop invasions.
As I previously stated the ban feature is primarily a feature to remove undesireables from your region without the need for moderator intervention. This includes those who grief and those who spam (same?). Your position on the use of the banning feature in this manner seems to be :
Anyone can warn the moderators of spamming/griefing so let the moderators handle it. Don't give the UN delegate access to those powers.

The pacific is no different than any other region in this respect. All regions have to deal with spamming/griefing. The pacifics get it even more. Why take away the only power that the pacifics have to remove griefers/spammers just because you are going through a bad time? I would be interested what other pacifics have to say about this being that they are not facing the same difficulty as "the pacific".

"He desn't have to ban them, i think it's enough to gag 'em. BTW, why is gag not implemented in this game? Somebody spams, gag, and that's all. You don't have to ban people. This would be useful in the Pacifics, and RR especially... It will make a lot of controversies disappear...
What do you say about this?"

So?

I argued like hell for this when the regional controls were put in. I believe even violet responded on this topic. I got an emphatic no. I'll see if I can find the thread (if it still exists).

A NO ?! Why? It would be perfect, especially for the Pacifics and the RR, as i said !!!

Ah, here it is:
http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20574

I was arguing in this thread as insaneweasels, one of my now dead *sniff* puppets.

Also, notice violets stated reason for the ban feature....

13 pages!!?
umm.....
could ya give me the short version please?

13 pages!!?
umm.....
could ya give me the short version please?
Wish i could but it would require me to read through it too.
The very short version is "no, can't have it"


*edit*
found the appropriate message (the things I do for you guys..sheesh)


Please, can someone answer me why booting is better than muting given the problems violet is fixing and that regions are password protected?Obviously there are drawbacks to booting.

People can (and frequently have) made nations with abusive names and mottos (e.g. "<nation> is Gay"), in addition to spamming the regional message board. It would be impossible to mute their name and motto.

In addition, muting might even encourage region-crashing, because you could invade a region and mute all the previous residents -- hilarious fun for region-crashers, I'm sure.

So I don't think muting is a better solution than ejecting. But I appreciate the constructive suggestion.

Please take that discussion over whether banning should remain or not to a new thread in Tech.




InfernoIce was not the only player to ignore my request. Many other nations moved into the region. Therefore, the Mods will discuss this tonight, and have a solution posted. This solution will be the final word on this particular matter. Any violations will be dealt with.

In interest of this, I ask that this issue not be discussed further until the Mods have made the ruling, at which time this issue will be reopened for discussion.

Ok, because i was the first one to bring this up (gag vs ban) i will create a thread in Technical. Just told you people, so we won't have multiple threads. :!:

[EDIT:]
Ok, here it is:

http://www.nationstates.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=69251

Thank you for your comment Neut... I await the official moderator response later tonight.


And as per the Pacific Region forums:
http://pub92.ezboard.com/fthepacificregionfrm2.showMessage?topicID=72.topic

I have informed our sympathizers to also await the official ruling.
Hopefully, when The Savage Lands logs on next, he will also change the PA's Factbook to request the same.

-Thedoc-

I know late to the party again, right?

I honestly think that a stable enviroment needs to be kept in the Pacifics and the RR, I try not to ban any nation but there are limits to what can be tolerated, and one night, having to ban about 9 nations, I got the warning about greifing, the nations that I baned were Kraggg 1 through 9, because of extreme spamming of the South Pacific Message board.

I understand that some people feel the need to have a firm hand in the Pacific Regions when they are Delegate of the Region, but come on, there are a few nations in the South Pacific that have some names or mottos that are offensive to me, but not to other people, if you have an open mind, and can look for something other than the bad in every name/word then things are alright. I know that my name and my flag most likely offends some people, but if the get the chance or open their minds they might find that I am not all that bad.

This is a game that was created as a business tool, well if the first thing that people see is the Delegate in a baning spree from any of the Spawn Regions is that good for business? that is what you need to really ask here, a Delegate that is baning for no apparent reason could hurt business and game play more than they will help in the long run.

So just a few thoughts here, and as for the baning issue, honestly I like the idea that if someone is trying to break the rules, ie profane language, spamming the board, or others, that something can be done if the Delegate gets on line quick enough, not all of the ones that I ban are reported to the Moderators, some of them have figured out that it is not a cool thing to do, and have either left the game or moved on to other regions. So in a way baning is a great tool to have, in others it is bad because of the fact that poor Kandarin has to put up with it until the Moderators can take care of the problem.

Maybe, just a thought here, why not make Kandarin a Moderator, then when things get out of hand in the RR, Kandarin can do something about it? just a thought.

Yeah, late to the party. I can sympathize. :wink:

I appreciate the fact that you're trying to contribute well-thought-out ideas to this discussion, but Neutered Sputniks has requested a temporary stop on all discussion by the public until the Moderators can meet on IRC and develop a solution.

Anybody else who has anything to add should save their thoughts to a word processing document or E-mail it to themselves.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

yep, better listen to neut, he's scary...

yep, better listen to neut, he's scary...

Discussions about whether or not Neut is scary are off-topic in this thread. Please start a new thread here in "Moderation" if you want to discuss that. :lol:

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

lol, no thanks, i'll just shut up now ;)

lol, no thanks, i'll just shut up now ;)

You have turned the Francos issue in a load of spam :evil:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

*

Corinthe, Queen of Eternity.

lol, no thanks, i'll just shut up now ;)

You have turned the Francos issue in a load of spam :evil:

Corinthe, take it easy. I suggest you calm down.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Forum Moderator

Huh? I just thought this looked odd...

The Pacific

The Pacific
World Factbook Entry: Tyranny has been deposed. Let a new era of peace, freedom, and justice for the Pacific be rung in. Establish yourself! Join the Pacific forum today! http://newpacificorder.proboards19.com/index.cgi

UN Delegate: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce.

The Pacific contains 4,739 nations. [List all nations]

Like what you see? Move Kandarin to the Pacific today!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today's United Nations Report
The Largest Basket Weaving Sector in the Pacific

# Nation UN Category Motto
1. The Fiefdom of Kirbonia Libertarian Police State "Carpe diem."
2. The Empire of Amor Inoffensive Centrist Democracy "Intelligence Beyond the Gods"
3. The Kingdom of Red Swingline Iron Fist Consumerists "Respect Is Everything"
4. The Queendom of Oaks Iron Fist Consumerists "The hard law makes the strong man"
5. The Borderlands of Saldean Corporate Police State "Anythings for sale at the right price"
6. The Dominion of Kaitenni Capitalist Paradise "Time is also a limited resource"
7. The Empire of Iron Fist Iron Fist Consumerists "We are more than a tiny dot on the map.........."
8. The Free Republic of Freedom Liberty etc Iron Fist Consumerists "For Freedom!"
9. The People's Republic of Steria Compulsory Consumerist State "In power I trust"
10. The Nomadic Peoples of Dule Father Knows Best State "Vacation on our way !"

Page: < 1 2 3 4 ... 479 480 >

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regional Happenings
9 minutes ago: The Empire of WaR GoDs departed this region for Mt Olympus
17 minutes ago: The Republic of John21 departed this region for The Rejected Realms
17 minutes ago: The Immortal Armed Republic of InfernoIce ejected The Republic of John21 from the region.
25 minutes ago: The Incorporated States of Metropolitan St Ricky departed this region for The Exclusive Capitalizt Zone
40 minutes ago: The United States of Natonix arrived from United States.
55 minutes ago: The Commonwealth of New Brandenburg arrived from Commonwealth of Solaris.
81 minutes ago: The Free Land of Marianas Trench departed this region for The South Pacific
81 minutes ago: The Free Land of Marianas Trench arrived from Citadel of the Universe.
84 minutes ago: The United Socialist States of New Quebec II departed this region for Gerbia
94 minutes ago: The Nomadic Peoples of Zoemzoemzoem departed this region for Ion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Pacific Civil Headquarters
Messages from regional members are co-ordinated here.

Lodged From Message
6 hours ago The United Socialist States of EU-topia Is building army's all role-play, or do you actually get an issue for it?
5 hours ago The Grand Duchy of MaxBarryRox hello everybody!

5 hours ago The Kingdom of Argana You do get issues talking about defence spending, but army's and war are all role play. There is a really good sticky thread in The Forum which explains a great deal of NS questions.

Hope that helps.

5 hours ago The Borderlands of Sardonicus From one dic to another dictator. Gives you a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside doesn't it?
5 hours ago The Borderlands of Sardonicus Argana, it is nice to have you back old friend. I trust you are well. It saddened us to hear of your recent loss and our hearts go out to you. As you can tell, we are having interesting times in the Pacific. Let's hope we all get to make it through united.
3 hours ago The Kingdom of Argana It is good to be back my friend. One thing is for sure, things do move fast in the Pacific!

2 hours ago The Community of A Raptor Atlantic Alliance....a newish alliance dedicated to the protection of regions. For more information, go to: http://chriszs.f2o.org/atlantic/developement/


Thank you.
2 hours ago The Kingdom of Der Krieger Hey people.......
26 minutes ago The Republic of John21 so, will our new UN delegate please unban the political enemies of franco spain?
16 minutes ago The Dominion of Francos Spain Nice try, Olangapo, but I've alerted the delegate to your puppet nation.

If that was a puppet of Olongapo, how would he know?

That would be a very interesting question to have answered Kandarin, very interesting indeed.

What I want to know is how did Francos get his 181 endorsments back ??!!

What I want to know is how did Francos get his 181 endorsments back ??!!

Modgic. :wink:

Actually, I'm guessing the mods don't have the power to make someone endorse someone else, endorsement lists probably aren't saved on deletion, and he certainly wasn't swept back into power on a wave of popularity, so I think it was likely an Admin action.

Unless it's an actual official mod directive their "requests" should be completely ignored.

We'll all know better next time, I'm sure.

interesting. now what?

i have a question. where will i be able to find the mod ruling on this case? why can't i access page nineof this topic?

okay that was two questions.

Unless it's an actual official mod directive their "requests" should be completely ignored.

We'll all know better next time, I'm sure.

Excuse me, why should our requests be ignored? Because I asked that the region be allowed to return to a pre-bug state, and it did (somewhat)? Or because you believe that endorsements are lost when a nation is deleted (at the next update, Francos hadn't been dead long enough).

Unless it's an actual official mod directive their "requests" should be completely ignored.

We'll all know better next time, I'm sure.

Excuse me, why should our requests be ignored? Because I asked that the region be allowed to return to a pre-bug state, and it did (somewhat)? Or because you believe that endorsements are lost when a nation is deleted (at the next update, Francos hadn't been dead long enough).

I did not think endorsments are lost when someone is deleted, BUT he has not been in the UN for 24+/- hours, and we all know that after so amny hours you DO loose your endorsments !

For Gods sake, Sputnik has said over and over that she's going to sort it out, she said it was bug, and we must give her the credit for knowing. What more do you all want?

Unless it's an actual official mod directive their "requests" should be completely ignored.

We'll all know better next time, I'm sure.

Excuse me, why should our requests be ignored? Because I asked that the region be allowed to return to a pre-bug state, and it did (somewhat)? Or because you believe that endorsements are lost when a nation is deleted (at the next update, Francos hadn't been dead long enough).

The fact that many on our side actually paid attention to your unofficial "request" did nothing but guarantee our failure to take back our region. The failure was made permanent when the next delegate ignored your "request" for a 48 hour moratorium on bannings.

Far as I can see the winning strategy is to pay no attention at all to these "requests" unless they're official mod directives.

As Sputnik and the mods are trying to put the region into the same position it was before the "bug" hit, I am sure that all of the countries that were ejected by InfernoIce after being asked not to, will be reinstated int The Pacific with their endorsements back. Just like Francos was.

As Sputnik and the mods are trying to put the region into the same position it was before the "bug" hit, I am sure that all of the countries that were ejected by InfernoIce after being asked not to, will be reinstated int The Pacific with their endorsements back. Just like Francos was.
Exactly, give her a chance.

Neut=him

Roysten... small answer that would be for us in such a case... when Francos now has the names of many of our plants in the region and can ban them at will before the next reset.

Knowledge of the overthrow efforts are compromised... meaning, while Francos can be put back into his position, everyone else cannot... therefore, this is bias towards an individual nation... all nations within the game should be subject to the same rules.


But back to the matter at hand...


People, please calm down and await the mod ruling.

... all nations within the game should be subject to the same rules.


I highlighted the important word in that statement. I agree with you 100%, but it ain't gonna happen.

Wow, finally got through the last 5 pages of posts. Man, I am sure noone cares what I think but here it is.

Chill out.


Tommorrow night would technicly end the 48 hour request not to invade, right? instead of getting your panties (or pantalones, depending on your gender) just get a plan in place.

Talk is cheap, tho it sure has drained alot of my time to read it, and your time to read it. Chill and wait til tommorrow. It should be asy for you to take this region back.

And if you can't take it back tommorow, think instead of talking about how unfair it is (and having mods tell you, it is not so much unfair). It isn't that hard to get back into power of any open region like this, so simply get together and take action when the time is right, instead of (as has happened) spending 2 days talking about how you are going to wait 2 days because it isn't fair.

Link that Thedoc alluded to the The Pacific Region Forum was moved.

http://pub92.ezboard.com/fthepacificregionfrm2.showMessage?topicID=73.topic

By our records, we think, show the total banned list is close to 250 nations. Is there a limit to how many countries The Pacific can have on it's banned nation's list?

Therefore, the Mods will discuss this tonight, and have a solution posted.

:?:

Ok so where is the ruling posted?

Good question.

Neut=him
I keep doing that, I'm beginning to think I have a sexual 'thing' for her..........sorry!...him.

Neut=him
I keep doing that, I'm beginning to think I have a sexual 'thing' for her..........sorry!...him.

Waaaaaaaaaaaay too much information.

Talk is cheap, tho it sure has drained alot of my time to read it, and your time to read it. Chill and wait til tommorrow. It should be asy for you to take this region back.


Sorry to have taken up your valuable time Ackbar. Feel free to read other threads.

No word on the Mods ruling?

...endorsement lists probably aren't saved on deletion...

While I'm not certain, I believe this to be incorrect.

I would need [violet] to confirm (or run experiments), but I suspect that endorsement lists can include nations that endorsed you when you were in a different region. However, when actually calculating who is the Delegate, only those endorsements from the same region are used.

why can't i access page nineof this topic?

I believe that it's a forum bug related to the deletion of posts.

Far as I can see the winning strategy is to pay no attention at all to these "requests" unless they're official mod directives.

We were trying to use a soft touch. Would you rather that we resorted to hard blows, first?

...

As for the awaited mod ruling, please remember that we do have lives of our own. We need to eat and sleep, particularly sleep.

Trust me, you do not want a sleep-deprived Moderator making official rulings. :lol:

I assure you that the matter is being discussed and that a decision will be announced as soon as the other Moderators have had time to:

1) Get well-rested,
2) Handle real-life responsibilites,
3) Review the situation, and
4) Discuss solutions.

You are all familiar with my national motto and standard advice: "Think about it for a moment." It's important advice that everyone should exercise. Since the decisions of Moderators carry so much weight around here, the importance of that advice becomes far more paramount for us.

Thank you for your patience.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
NationStates Forum Moderator

Spelling error corrected.

Yes... and there may have been some initial confusion from Neut's post on when the ruling would take place...


Myself, I first looked at it as... the ruling would be posted yesterday from the 'tonight' wording...

As I re-read it, I can see that Neut more likely meant that the mods would begin the discussion then make their ruling, not necessarily all occuring last night...


Everyone please listen to Cogitation and sit back and relax while the mods discuss...

Thank you for your patience.

Patience? What patience?! :?

Thank you for letting us know some information, I will sit tight until we hear something on the ruling, and thank you for taking the time to look at this issue and to also discuss it,

Respectfully,
The Queen of LadyRebels

I apologize. Yesterday was an extremely long day for myself, as Cogitation pointed out, you dont want a Mod suffering from exhaustion to work an issue. I was at work at 0345 yesterday morning - now, that wouldnt be so bad, but usually I'm up all night and head to bed around 0500-0600 since I work nights - meaning, I was exhausted.


This issue is still under discussion, in part because we want all the Mods' input, and in part because of my real life responsibilities. We will try to have a ruling tonight, but it may be another day or two.

In the meantime, please, as Ackbar suggested, sit tight. The region is not going anywhere. ;)

Neut - tough break there, mate. Hope you catch up on some rest soon. Your adoring public can wait, even though we're all on the edge of our seats here... :D

What's probably really sad Neut...


is that all I can think of when I recall your name... is a cartoon satellite limping around in orbit with one of those plastic dog collars on.

Talk is cheap, tho it sure has drained alot of my time to read it, and your time to read it. Chill and wait til tommorrow. It should be asy for you to take this region back.


Sorry to have taken up your valuable time Ackbar. Feel free to read other threads.

Perhaps you would have preffered me to post the opposite?

"Please continue to post the same thing over and over again only to be asked to just wait a couple of days."

Really, you had to wait a couple of days anyway. You could have been planning instead of compalining.

That said, your saracsm is not taken personally, good luck in the game.

Put a daily or weekly limit quota for ban, wich delegate(with honorable intentions) need to ban 100+ nations in a minute?.

I think this idea can restore the fair play

btw, i wonder if this can be a UN proposal, and if it gets aproved, can it be implemented over the game?...or is just noncense?
Thanks.

Sorry to have taken up your valuable time Ackbar. Feel free to read other threads.

Perhaps you would have preffered me to post the opposite?

"Please continue to post the same thing over and over again only to be asked to just wait a couple of days."

Really, you had to wait a couple of days anyway. You could have been planning instead of compalining.

That said, your saracsm is not taken personally, good luck in the game.

Actually Ackbar, having made only four or five posts I've found myself with ample free time to both plan and to post the occasional message.

As always though, your advice is greatly appreciated.

Note to self: PLAN things from now on!

That said, your saracsm is not taken personally, good luck in the game.

A smiley or two (perhaps a :wink: ) helps to convey that you're not taking it personally.

Keep that in mind, please. Okay? ;)

Also, if I don't see any activity from the other mods about this issue, I'll go poke 'em with a stick. 8)

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

thank you. :)

-------> smiley usage. ;p

btw, i wonder if this can be a UN proposal, and if it gets aproved, can it be implemented over the game?...or is just noncense?

While your suggestion isn't nonsense in and of itself, the approach of running it through the UN sorta is. The UN should not be used for suggesting game mechanic changes (this is mentioned in the FAQ), instead you can post your suggestion in the Technical forum, for instance in the topic titled "Pacifc Delegates Power to Eject (and ban)".

Ballotonia

Also, if I don't see any activity from the other mods about this issue, I'll go poke 'em with a stick. 8)

http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/1poke000.gif

Go ahead, see what happens... ya know, every stick has 2 ends... (http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/twak0000.gif)

-= Daciana =- http://www.chip.ro/forum/images/smiles/scramble.gif

when nastic was ejected from the north pacific cause he was gonna become the delegate..the nations stood up agains thte delegate..apparently the mods unbanned nastic and he came back wit all his endorsements becommin the new delegate..due to the unfairness of the delegate he lost his endorsements..i think the pacific will stand again but when? use that as an example of the tyrnany of the pacific even worse..we need to put inferno out...

I would just like to point out that their was no mods action in my case.
They totally ignored my situation,I was returned by people power alone.

I also returned with my endorsements because I quit the un and re applied once I was returned to the NORTH PACIFIC region.

That said I am with you on this situation and I hope it is sorted out soon.

It is not difficult to tell by reading the tone of the differentnations of this debate who is on the side of justice and who is out for personal gratification. Some I guess are also mixed. My only interest in this issue is for fair play. The style and substance of the current delegate in the pacific (along with the puppets who post for them) are sarcastic, snearing and mocking. I do not see how it benefits this game to have such nations in control of a birthing region. This of course is my perspective. I understand that the rules of the game allow a certain leeway for region defense. I have read discussions regarding the % of nations that are allowed to be ejected and additional leeway for ejecting non-natives. In the context of the pacific the # of natives they would have to eject to be against the current interpretation of the rules is somewhere around 700. :shock: I would like to point out that in the context of this game there are numerous good intentioned regions and nations who do not view the invasion of the pacific for the specific purpose of removal of the current offensive (to many) leadership as invasion. It is viewed as a humanitarian gesture, and those who have and will engage in this act are not engaged in it for any personal gain. (none seek to install any outside nation as a delegate). In this global context none are invaders but liberators and (I feel) should be treated as such by the moderators.
The only current hope that I have that the pacific will ever rid itself of such an odesome personality and squasher of free speech is that eventually the number of ejected nations will rise to the point that it is statistically significant. The methods the delegate uses to retain power are effective. They are not moral and the explainations given for these ejections are not wholey acurate. Misleading representations of fact are troubling, especially when they are then treated (again from my perspective) as fact.
Which leads me back to my innitial comments...If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and smells like a duck...its a duck. I have seen all kinds of nations in my travels and trevails throughout NS, Yhe arguments and style used by these nations are too similiar to some I have encountered to be ignored. They happen to be in a region where they have some numerical leeway, but mark my words, there will come a time where the #s will be just too great to be ignored and they will be treated as they deserve to be, as griefers.

That said, your saracsm is not taken personally, good luck in the game.

A smiley or two (perhaps a :wink: ) helps to convey that you're not taking it personally.

Keep that in mind, please. Okay? ;)

Also, if I don't see any activity from the other mods about this issue, I'll go poke 'em with a stick. 8)

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

I will be sure to use smiley faces. I thought kind words would be enough, overyl kind words actually. I will be sure you use smiley faces so that people know I am nice. :twisted:

That said, your saracsm is not taken personally, good luck in the game.

A smiley or two (perhaps a :wink: ) helps to convey that you're not taking it personally.

Keep that in mind, please. Okay? ;)

I will be sure to use smiley faces. I thought kind words would be enough, overyl kind words actually. I will be sure you use smiley faces so that people know I am nice. :twisted:

Thank you. :) Sometimes, with the words you choose, it isn't clear; I just want to prevent flame wars that are caused by misunderstandings.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

So wasn't someone supposed to put up a moderator decision about this fiasco?

So wasn't someone supposed to put up a moderator decision about this fiasco?

I'm not letting this matter drop; as soon as a decision is made, I'll let oyu know.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Francos Spain once banned someone who spoke out against him and then tried to leave to avoid the banning with something along the lines of "Gotcha you little b####. You weren't fast enough!".

He IS using the ban button to enforce his rule, AND people in the Pacific are becoming agitated over it.

So the question is, what is going to be done about it?

Francos Spain once banned someone who spoke out against him and then tried to leave to avoid the banning with something along the lines of "Gotcha you little b####. You weren't fast enough!".

He IS using the ban button to enforce his rule, AND people in the Pacific are becoming agitated over it.

So the question is, what is going to be done about it?

I repeat: I will let you know when a decision is made.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation

Francos Spain once banned someone who spoke out against him and then tried to leave to avoid the banning with something along the lines of "Gotcha you little b####. You weren't fast enough!".

I witnessed that - the nation banned was that AntiFrancos spammer who moves in and leaves the message that everyone should unendorse FS and then moves back out, usually within less than a minute. He does this a couple of times every hour. After he was banned, within minutes he just created another nation and continued doing the same thing. You can hardly fault FS for reacting as he did in this case.

I am locking this thread. We asked a number of times for a moratorium on discussions here until we Mods could reach a decision. This request has been largely ignored, and as such, this topic will have a moratorium enforced.