NationStates Jolt Archive

Traders Economic Coalition


It is with great pleasure that the United Terran Federation, and various companies and other nations present a new type of organization to the galaxy let it be known that this is neither a military nor a political entity nor a governing or policing entity, but an organization of nations dedicated to providing resources, money to protect trade routes in neutral space. This charter will outline the guidelines for how this organization will function.


Section I:
This Organization will not infringe on any signatory and non signatory nations sovereignty, whilst nations that sign this charter agree to in some capacity provide support and protection to convoys of freighters traveling through neutral space it dose not entitle any member nation to use or attempt to use TEC as a paramilitary asset against any enemies they have.

Section II:
Nations may provide support to the organization in any way shape or form, be it private companies of said nation contracted to protect freight and trade routes, or their own military force. By agreeing to this charter nations agree to protect any signatory members assets along the route assigned. The TEC shall rotate between different routes within neutral space and maintains that signatory nations may wish to take upon themselves the security of their own trade routes within their territory.

Guideline’s for support is as follows:
1: A nation may use its own military force to provide convoy support.
2: A nation may use contractors, mercenaries or companies in their nations to provide convoy support.
3: A nation May providing funding to any contractor providing the support or resources and man power to ensure the safety and security as well as efficient operations of the TEC.


Section III:

The TEC Maintains a strict policy of non interference of national jurisdiction. If a ship of a TEC member is hijacked destroyed or boarded, the perpetrators if caught will be sent to that members nation to be tried by their own laws. The TEC will maintain a court, but will only engage trial if that member nation wishes to forgo its jurisdiction. In no way shape or form will the TEC attempt to forgo with out approval of a member their jurisdiction.

Section IV:
The TEC Shall maintain A strict neutrality in all conflicts between nations, and will establish a guideline for traveling in to hostile territory, TEC member nations may choose to not give support to routes traveling through a war zone if they wish. How ever TEC flagged ships are granted the right to engage hostile forces only if they or the convoy are threatened significantly enough to warrant such actions.


Section V:

The TEC maintains the right to inspect member nations cargo if they are at war with another nation,. In order to ensure neutrality of the organization the TEC will not be involved in protecting weapons shipments or components for weapon assembly to a member nation at war. Whilst we maintain a strict national sovereignty policy, it is with in our interest for the safety of our contracts and member nations not to allow the transport of such goods, as it would increase the risk of attack from national entities at war with that nation.

Section VI:

The Safety and security requirements of transporting cargo through TEC protected routes shall include anti terrorist inspections, done by non partisan TEC personnel, this is to provide optimum safety for TEC ships, personnel and integrity with other nations. The TEC under no circumstances will use these powers excessively or to attempt to control the flow of any sort of goods.


Section VII:
The TEC will maintain a series of stations at “way points” in order to trade off with other ships and crew or hand over control to the nation receiving the cargo, the TEC headquarters shall situated in a neutral system on a neutral world not within any ones space. This Headquarters will have access via gate network, and will be the center of TEC operations. It will be property of the TEC and its nations but will fall under no national rules of any members.


Signatory nations:
The United Terran Federation
The Coredian Empire
The dragona empire
The Plantery Republic of The Battlehawk
The Empire of Void Templar
The Unified Galactic Republic of Telvira
The Federation of Aceria
Kostemetsia
The Red Talons Mercenary Republic
The Imperial Federated Systems of Romandeos
Unified Dominion of Feazanthia
East Coast Federation
Kormanthor
The Dersconi Amaranthine Imperium
The Rotan
The Eternal Will of The Swarm
The Wolf Hold
The Holy Imperium of Angenteria

The dragona empire will gladly sighn on to this venture, and is pleased that it will still be able to trade with out distant friends, even in times of war., Sighn us up!

The Semi-Nomadic Coredian Empire will be pleased to sign onto this venture.

The Plantery Republic is Happy to sign up for this Organisation

It is with great honor that we accept the applicants your signature shall be added to the charter.

From His Royal Majesty, Emperor Servius Tacitus, Ruler of the Void and Her Colonies[/CENTER]
The Empire happily signs up for this organization. Perhaps this shall show the pirates and privateers their comeuppance.
Signed:
http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z107/Kain1235/SeveriusTacitus.png

The Unified Galactic Republic will sign on to this coalition.
-Supreme Chancellor Maximillian Valorum

The Federation of Aceria will sign up for the TEC.

The TEC Welcomes you both to the organization.

To: Traders Economic Coalition
CC: All Signatories to same
From: Karadesh Sovanii, Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises, Nexus 3746 Branch

Re: Official Protest

At this time the sovereign corporate state of TRIAD Enterprises, via local authority of Nexus 3746 Branch Offices, wishes to express official protest of the formation of this Traders Economic Coalition (hereafter, TEC).

While the promulgation of free economic trade between nations is welcome and agreeable to TRIAD Enterprises national interests, the policies of this TEC are anathema to TRIAD policies.
In sepecific, the requirement to provide military convoy protection of assets not belonging to TRIAD Enterprises will not be permitted by the Home Office. Neither will any searches of TRIAD vessels be permitted by any external entity, save those with specific contracts with TRIAD for said searches.

We wish to at this time notify all Signatories of this TEC of the following.
1. Any attempt by a TEC member to board or search a TRIAD vessel passing through non-sovereign space will be taken as a hostile act, and may be construed as an act of war.
2. Any attempt to enforce taxes or tarrifs for passing through non-sovereign TEC space will be considered the actions of a Hostile Competitor.
3. Any attempts to request or require TRIAD to join this TEC, on pain of trade sanctions against TRIAD, will be considered the actions of a Hostile Competitor.

Signed,
Karadesh Sovanii
Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises
Nexus 3746 Branch

The Terran Federation implores TRIAD Enterprises to read the TEC charter before making such frivolous posturing arguments.

The Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union wishes to join the TEC.

The Red Talons Mercenary Republic offers its assistance and services. We agree to the terms of the charter and wish to sign on.

Welcome to the organization

The United Colonies of Kobol would like to thank you for this opportunity, and invitation within your trade alliance.

Being a confederated state until such time as the constitutional convention is over, and the purposed outcome becomes the new charter for the thirteen colonies, the right to trade is an individual right of each Colony.

Unfortunately however, Caprica, along with many of the other colonies have many concerns, especially over the use of such machinery and tools such as Artificial Intelligence, your own breed of cylons, as well as any cybernetics programs that are anathema within our national borders.

Until such questions can be answered in a way that is to our agreement, Caprica with the deepest regret will have to abstain from your trade alliance.

Sincerely,

Mayor Gaius Larkin
Caprica City, Caprica

Bump

To: Traders Economic Coalition
CC: All Signatories to same
From: Karadesh Sovanii, Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises, Nexus 3746 Branch

Re: Official Protest

At this time the sovereign corporate state of TRIAD Enterprises, via local authority of Nexus 3746 Branch Offices, wishes to express official protest of the formation of this Traders Economic Coalition (hereafter, TEC).

While the promulgation of free economic trade between nations is welcome and agreeable to TRIAD Enterprises national interests, the policies of this TEC are anathema to TRIAD policies.
In sepecific, the requirement to provide military convoy protection of assets not belonging to TRIAD Enterprises will not be permitted by the Home Office. Neither will any searches of TRIAD vessels be permitted by any external entity, save those with specific contracts with TRIAD for said searches.

We wish to at this time notify all Signatories of this TEC of the following.
1. Any attempt by a TEC member to board or search a TRIAD vessel passing through non-sovereign space will be taken as a hostile act, and may be construed as an act of war.
2. Any attempt to enforce taxes or tarrifs for passing through non-sovereign TEC space will be considered the actions of a Hostile Competitor.
3. Any attempts to request or require TRIAD to join this TEC, on pain of trade sanctions against TRIAD, will be considered the actions of a Hostile Competitor.

Signed,
Karadesh Sovanii
Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises
Nexus 3746 Branch

From: Volodya Rurik, Undersecretary of Trade
To: Karadesh Sovanii, Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises, Nexus 3746 Branch

We understand your concerns, and will comply to your wishes. However, in the interests of national security, we also wish to inform you of the following:
We will not board any TRIAD vessels, cetainly not in neutral space, unless we are given due cause to do so, either from detecting suspicious cargo or contraband via cargo scanners or from actions by the craft in question. Any smugglers caught within the boundries of the Empire will be publicly executed and put on display in accordance with law and as such will not be returned to you, regardless of standing and/or rank.
Thank you,
Volodya Rurik

In the name of our most glorious Empress, Sienna I, I affirm the desire of the Imperial Federated Systems of Romandeos to join the Traders Economic Coalition.

~ Imperial Diplomatic Representative Dame Tamatha Passaretti

To: Traders Economic Coalition
CC: All Signatories to same
From: Karadesh Sovanii, Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises, Nexus 3746 Branch

Re: Official Protest

At this time the sovereign corporate state of TRIAD Enterprises, via local authority of Nexus 3746 Branch Offices, wishes to express official protest of the formation of this Traders Economic Coalition (hereafter, TEC).

While the promulgation of free economic trade between nations is welcome and agreeable to TRIAD Enterprises national interests, the policies of this TEC are anathema to TRIAD policies.
In specific, the requirement to provide military convoy protection of assets not belonging to TRIAD Enterprises will not be permitted by the Home Office. Neither will any searches of TRIAD vessels be permitted by any external entity, save those with specific contracts with TRIAD for said searches.

We wish to at this time notify all Signatories of this TEC of the following.
1. Any attempt by a TEC member to board or search a TRIAD vessel passing through non-sovereign space will be taken as a hostile act, and may be construed as an act of war.
2. Any attempt to enforce taxes or tarrifs for passing through non-sovereign TEC space will be considered the actions of a Hostile Competitor.
3. Any attempts to request or require TRIAD to join this TEC, on pain of trade sanctions against TRIAD, will be considered the actions of a Hostile Competitor.

Signed,
Karadesh Sovanii
Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises
Nexus 3746 Branch
As the spokesperson for the TEC, we wish to allay any fears or concerns that you may have, friend TRIAD.


1. Any attempt by a TEC member to board or search a TRIAD vessel passing through non-sovereign space will be taken as a hostile act, and may be construed as an act of war.
We understand your concerns here. Let us help you allay any fears or concerns.

If you are traveling on TEC-approved trade routes AND you are flying the TEC flag, your subject to a search for only one reason: to ensure that you're not carrying weapons or war material to a war zone under the protection of the TEC. However, if you are flying your own flag OR you are using other routes, that does not apply and we will strictly enforce that rule.. We not be liable for any shipments of our members that carry weapons or equipment to a war zone, so the various member nations will have to conduct their own convoy actions. We have strict rules concerning who is eligible to search and who is not so as to not infringe on any sovereign rights, whether they be at war or not. It's just that the TEC does not wish to be liable for any disputes or litigation or even casus belli arising from weapons being carried under our mutual flag.


2. Any attempt to enforce taxes or tarrifs for passing through non-sovereign TEC space will be considered the actions of a Hostile Competitor.
The TEC is not in the business of issuing tariffs. That is a right strictly reserved to the individual nations. Please inform us of who issued this lie so we can put it straight.


3. Any attempts to request or require TRIAD to join this TEC, on pain of trade sanctions against TRIAD, will be considered the actions of a Hostile Competitor.

We are disappointed that TRIAD does not wish to join TEC, and hope you would change your mind once you see the benefits of joining forces. We will, though, still seek to address any issues you may have. Our door is open! :)

Head of the Diplomatic Corps Yuzuru Suou

<\ \>P-8716#2.RECORD>> SYSTEM.LOCAL.ALL
<\ 9872H-02
<\ ENCRYPTION CODE: GREEN
<\ FROM: Gar Michaels Manaan, Minister of Alien Affairs, Concordia
<\ TO: Traders Economic Coalition; Signatories
<\ SUBJECT: Trader Economic Coalition Application For Membership

/start file/

At approximately 28:18 on the Second Day of Ramath, the Great Daiamid of the Unified Dominion of Feazanthia, representing the Kiith Federation and the Asrengarde Hegemony, ratified Trader Economic Coalition Treaty 01 in its entirety, with the understanding that certain articles (to wit: section VII) would take into consideration high-security military and government territories and previously placed restrictions upon intergalactic trade requiring the utilization of military assets (to wit: Bridge-series Slipstream Field Transient Facility Path of Retribution [DDF-OSFTF21]). The treaty was ratified with eleven cha votes and two ni votes.

With this knowledge. the Great Daiamid formally requests to apply for full membership in the Trader Economic Coalition for both the Kiith Federation and the Asrengarde Hegemony, henceforth known as the Unified Dominion of Feazanthia.


/end file/

To: Volodya Rurik, Undersecretary of Trade
From: Karadesh Sovanii, Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises, Nexus 3746 Branch

TRIAD Enterprises acknowledges the rights of all sovereign nations to protect their interests within their stated territorial borders. We at this time wish to clarify that our offical statement was one of protest against the formation of the TEC. TRIAD has no intention of violating the local laws or customs of customer nations.
Be advised that should your nation find reason to engage in trade relations with TRIAD, and should your nation choose to purchase TRIAD products, it is stated in corporate law that all customers have the right to inspect merchandice prior or on time of delivery. When applied to interstellar trade, this includes the right for customer nations to inspect the vessel such deliveries are carried out on. TRIAD Enterprises has abided by this policy for many years, and will continue to do so.

We wish to make clear that TRIAD Enterprises does not recognize the Traders Economic Coalition as an official or sovereign entity. TRIAD does not recognize any authority of said organization when operating outside any national territory. Additionally, TRIAD vessels will not allow boarding by any persons not belonging to a Customer Nation with which there is a clear contract of sale.

This office will remain open to inquiries for further information or clarification.

Signed,
Karadesh Sovanii
Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises
Nexus 3746 Branch

Bump

Bump

To all TEC nations: all TEC business/chat if not on msn will be conducted on

irc at #TEC

http://www.rizon.net/chat.php /join #TEC in the chat box.

additionally you may join#Nationstates

To: The Traders Economic Coalition
From: Ministry of Foreign Affairs for the Dersconi Amaranthine Imperium

To whom it may concern,

As per our private negotiations, The Divine Amaranthine Imperium will be placing our signature on this noble charter, and will also be finding the best men Derscon has to offer to fill the positions of Director of Commercial Security, and Director of Commercial Intelligence. We will submit the names as soon as finding an appropriate commander.

Sincerely,

His Imperial Excellency Sephirot Shavar Katazarov
Minister of Foreign Affairs
The Dersconi Amaranthine Imperium

Welcome to the TEC old Freinds, may the fortunes of your god be blessed upon you and your people

Bester Kayborn Special envoy to the TEC.

The United Colonies of Kobol would like to thank you for this opportunity, and invitation within your trade alliance.

Being a confederated state until such time as the constitutional convention is over, and the purposed outcome becomes the new charter for the thirteen colonies, the right to trade is an individual right of each Colony.

Unfortunately however, Caprica, along with many of the other colonies have many concerns, especially over the use of such machinery and tools such as Artificial Intelligence, your own breed of cylons, as well as any cybernetics programs that are anathema within our national borders.

Until such questions can be answered in a way that is to our agreement, Caprica with the deepest regret will have to abstain from your trade alliance.

Sincerely,

Mayor Gaius Larkin
Caprica City, Caprica


The reply was short and sweet, and most likely would be viewed as a comprise

The United Terran Federation It self will gladly disable all AI/Sentient computer systems in its TEC operations if the Colonies consider membership, additionally we will provide flesh and blood contacts and request an exchange of human diplomats.

“Thank you so much for addressing this concern. Artificial Intelligence of any kind, along with cylons, or as you most likely would call them Droids, of any kind are a capitol offense within the national and territorial confines of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol.

Any vessel utilizing these illegal tools is subject to boarding, execution of the crew, and all ship and property within being seized for destruction or sale for state benefit.

Any cargo or trade goods that within themselves contain artificial intelligence will also result with the same seizure of goods, trial and execution of all on board.

Caprica herself is grateful for the Terran Federation’s willingness to respect our sovereignty and state laws regarding such things. However as a Trade alliance, the TEC would undoubtly have other members trade within the sector.

Before Caprica can agree to such trades, all members must agree to respect these laws to avoid unfortunate incidents which will result if our laws are not obeyed.

Sincerely

Mayor Gaius Larkin
Caprica City, Caprica

The United Terran Federation will put it up to a vote.

Consider the ECF signed on

“Thank you so much for addressing this concern. Artificial Intelligence of any kind, along with cylons, or as you most likely would call them Droids, of any kind are a capitol offense within the national and territorial confines of the Twelve Colonies of Kobol.

Any vessel utilizing these illegal tools is subject to boarding, execution of the crew, and all ship and property within being seized for destruction or sale for state benefit.

Any cargo or trade goods that within themselves contain artificial intelligence will also result with the same seizure of goods, trial and execution of all on board.

Caprica herself is grateful for the Terran Federation’s willingness to respect our sovereignty and state laws regarding such things. However as a Trade alliance, the TEC would undoubtly have other members trade within the sector.

Before Caprica can agree to such trades, all members must agree to respect these laws to avoid unfortunate incidents which will result if our laws are not obeyed.

Sincerely

Mayor Gaius Larkin
Caprica City, Caprica

Romandeos respects the right of a sovereign nation to pass any law it wishes in its own space, so long as said nation is prepared to deal with what the law brings about.

However, we will remind the Twelve Colonies that such laws can not apply in neutral space and any Twelve Colonies vessel attempting to enforce them on Imperial shipping in neutral, or, God forbid, Romandeosian space will be listed in the Office of Naval Intelligence Threat Registry as pirates. All crew of ships listed on the Threat Registry as pirates will be subject to execution if located in Romandeosian space, their ships subject to destruction or capture and any merchant cargo they have aboard subject to siezure and sale at auction.

In closing, Romandeos does recognize these laws have legitimate effect when in Twelve Colonies space, but insists they are not to be enforced elsewhere.

~ Imperial Diplomatic Representative Dame Tamatha Passaretti

OOC:

Probably not necessary, but the Empress wanted that cleared up.

Subspace Communications Transmission

To: The Government of the Fedral Union

Transmission Origin:

Kore Presidential Palace
71312 New Emekire Parkway
Myth Essembra, Planet Kormanthor

We would be glad to support this worthy cause.


Signed

Gwendilynne Shultz, Kor Universal Relations Division



Kor Fact Page Link: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=499883 &highlight=Kormanthor

Romandeos respects the right of a sovereign nation to pass any law it wishes in its own space, so long as said nation is prepared to deal with what the law brings about.

However, we will remind the Twelve Colonies that such laws can not apply in neutral space and any Twelve Colonies vessel attempting to enforce them on Imperial shipping in neutral, or, God forbid, Romandeosian space will be listed in the Office of Naval Intelligence Threat Registry as pirates. All crew of ships listed on the Threat Registry as pirates will be subject to execution if located in Romandeosian space, their ships subject to destruction or capture and any merchant cargo they have aboard subject to siezure and sale at auction.

In closing, Romandeos does recognize these laws have legitimate effect when in Twelve Colonies space, but insists they are not to be enforced elsewhere.

~ Imperial Diplomatic Representative Dame Tamatha Passaretti

OOC:

Probably not necessary, but the Empress wanted that cleared up.

The United Colonies of Kobol, in Particular Caprica, has no desire to enforce our laws upon your persons, or any nation outside of Colonial Space. That being said, the Colonial Fleet does not see it necessary at the given time, to board any vessel in neutral space, or their sovereign territory.

To prove such example, the Coredia still exist and have yet to come under declaration of war with the United, or Twelve Colonies of Kobol, despite the many reasons to do so, one of which is giving safe harbor to the cylon nation, and usage of AI, along with their various other sins against the Colonies.

If Caprica can tolerate Coredia, we are certain we can co-operate with your nation, assuming all signatory of this TEC are willing to comply with said restrictions with an open declaration of intent to do so.

Mayor Gaius Larkin
Caprica City, Caprica

The United Colonies of Kobol, in Particular Caprica, has no desire to enforce our laws upon your persons, or any nation outside of Colonial Space. That being said, the Colonial Fleet does not see it necessary at the given time, to board any vessel in neutral space, or their sovereign territory.

To prove such example, the Coredia still exist and have yet to come under declaration of war with the United, or Twelve Colonies of Kobol, despite the many reasons to do so, one of which is giving safe harbor to the cylon nation, and usage of AI, along with their various other sins against the Colonies.

If Caprica can tolerate Coredia, we are certain we can co-operate with your nation, assuming all signatory of this TEC are willing to comply with said restrictions with an open declaration of intent to do so.

Mayor Gaius Larkin
Caprica City, Caprica

Romandeos will cooperate with any reasonable requests from a fellow TEC signatory. We manufacture, and purchase, and use Synthetic Intelligences because we find them to be very useful to our nation. Our policies have not harmed us yet.

We do not expect trouble with you, but merely wished to make it known that unjustified violence against us would not be tolerated regardless of the issues behind it. We fight pirates and rogue states on an almost yearly basis. We do not need to fight our trading partners as well.

~ Imperial Diplomatic Representative Dame Tamatha Passaretti

The Terran Federation Request respectfully that you both cool your jets, the colonies do not want AI in their nation, as they have been attacked by them on a number of occasions, the federation expects every one to respect that choice. As they are not demanding all nations in the TEC disable AI or AI like devices in their own nations or in neutral space, we feel this is a reasonable proposal.

To: United Colonies of Cobol
CC: Traders Economic Coalition
From: Karadesh Sovanii, Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises, Nexus 3746 Branch

Re: Trade Policies

At this time the sovereign corporate state of TRIAD Enterprises, via local authority of Nexus 3746 Branch Offices, wishes to request clarification of United Colonial law.

In the interests of peaceful diplomatic and economic relations, TRIAD expresses some concern regarding United Colonial legal stance on the subject of digital and mechanical life. Such beings are in great numbers as citizen shareholders within TRIAD Enterprises, and comprise an essential component of TRIAD vessels.

We acknowledge the right of the United Colonies to enforce whatever laws exist within United Colonial space, we request clarification on several points.
1. Is it the policy of United Colonial vessels to attempt to enforce this ban on digital and mechanical life while outside United Colonial territorial borders?
2. Will any United Colonial personnel attempt to enforce these laws should an encounter take place on a trade outpost residing outside United Colonial space?
3. Should economic trade between TRIAD Enterprises and the United Colonies be desired, can the government of the United Colonies recommend any such neutral trading outpost for the purposes of exchanging cargos and goods?

We at TRIAD Enterprises require clarification of these points before any attempt at either diplomatic or economic contact can be attempted.

Signed,
Karadesh Sovanii
Branch Director to TRIAD Enterprises
Nexus 3746 Branch

From: Volodya Rurik, Undersecretary of Trade
I must ask the United Colonies, what of Virtual Intelligence systems? Many Templarian merchant vessels rely on these systems to plot their courses, maintain life support and do many other critical functions.

OOC: VI is basically AI without the self-awareness. They are however able to response and communicate with people.

“To all whom this may concern:
From the office of Caprica

Our own laws are just that our own. Applicable only within our borders. As neutral space is unclaimed by any one nation, it would be irresponsible to claim our jurisdiction on neutral space, nor would it be wise and prudent to claim our laws and standards on those within neutral space, or extra-colonial territories. As such, being a non imperialist government body, we have no desire to place our laws on your nations, as long as you are outside our space.

Our ban on intellegent computers, either virtual, or artificial or whatever you wish to call them is absolute within the red line. However again, let me state this clearly, only applies to ships within our sector of space. You may sit on the border playing chess with your AI if you wish, as long as you do not float across you are fine. Just don’t bring your tools and toys of expressly forbidden contraband within our borders.

Thank you.

Fellow Delegates and neutral nations:

Let's put it this way. If there's an artificial intelligence inside a Playstation and you smuggle it into Colonial space, you're executed. No if, ands or buts. However, that only applies within Colonial space. They won't attack AI ships in neutral international space or other nations' space. Unless, of course, they're attacked by one of you carrying AI. Then they nuke your planets until they glow.

So yeah, don't antagonize the Colonials, mmmkay?

Am i to assume then, that a ship that relys heavily on its AI for the regulation of, for example, it's engines and life support, would simply have to drift around on its inertia while the crew sufficated?

I ask only becaue, while this is not the case with my ships, alot of people have AI's integrated into critical systems.

Further more I would like to point out that AIs can generaly make procdures such as docking, an important act with most freighters and smaller ship, much easyer, faster and more efficent than a pilot ever could.

Am i to assume then, that a ship that relys heavily on its AI for the regulation of, for example, it's engines and life support, would simply have to drift around on its inertia while the crew sufficated?

I ask only becaue, while this is not the case with my ships, alot of people have AI's integrated into critical systems.

Further more I would like to point out that AIs can generaly make procdures such as docking, an important act with most freighters and smaller ship, much easyer, faster and more efficent than a pilot ever could.

It would not be profitable for such nations who have integrated AI into their critical systems and can not operate without it, to come within the Boundaries of Colonial space. Such nations or ships captains would be well advised to simply write the whole system as a do not fly zone, and not enter.

And as for the benefit, they also are a pain to kill when they decide to commit nuclear holocaust against your populace, for fourteen years. Our experience with AI, has deemed their further development and existence as a unnecessary risk to the human race. This policy is not up for debate.

As stated earlier, if even one member of this Trade group deems this restriction as unwarranted, then Caprica will withdraw it's name from the trade agreement and will simply thank the Terran Union for it's offer.

Am i to assume then, that a ship that relys heavily on its AI for the regulation of, for example, it's engines and life support, would simply have to drift around on its inertia while the crew sufficated?
It is the opinion of this august nation that if you rely heavily on artificial intelligence for life support regulation, it would be a dangerous state of affairs if indeed someone turns off your AI. May we interest you in a backup system to ensure that this does not happen, like our Vector Lifeline Systems?

I ask only becaue, while this is not the case with my ships, alot of people have AI's integrated into critical systems.
If this is the case, the simple solution is to use third party ships that lack AI if you intend to travel into Colonial space. The Colonials will care less if you do float away and suffocate, so long as no AI is ever brought into their twelve systems.

Further more I would like to point out that AIs can generaly make procdures such as docking, an important act with most freighters and smaller ship, much easyer, faster and more efficent than a pilot ever could.
True enough, but that is a minor inconvenience at best. Besides, one could train crews with docking procedures well enough to match some AIs. That and we agree that AIs also make it far easier to kill...especially kill humans or other sentient races.

<\ \> DCS.U#281-MW.CT >> CAPRICA.CAPCIT.GOV.MAY
<\ RELAY (ORIGIN CODE: DCS.U#003-CE.PRIME.CONC.NPC)
<\ ENCRYPTION CODE: YELLOW
<\ FROM: Gar Michaels Manaan, Minister of Alien Affairs, Concordia
<\ TO: Gaias Larkin, Mayor, Caprica
<\ SUBJECT: Voice of Concern

/START FILE/

It has come to the attention of both the Ministry of Alien Affairs and the Ministry of Commerce that your fine nation, the Colonies of Kobol, has outlawed the use of artificial intelligent constructs for all international and domestic traffic within its borders. As this has come through the channels of the illustrious Trader Economic Coalition, of which both of our governments have expressed interest in membership, it has caused some bit of alarm. Especially the threats issued by the mayoral office to exercise deadly force upon construct-equipped vessels and their crews despite their presumably peaceful missions of international commerce.

As the United Dominion has no interest in alienating a potential trade partner, but also has no interest in having its personnel lost in clouds of rapidly expanding charged particles, we must voice our official protest to this policy and request a more formal meeting to discuss any potential trade agreements between our two peoples.

As a gesture of good will, attached to this transmission you will find an overview of the Contender-series artificial construct system that comes standard aboard all Kiith Federation and Asrengarde Hegemony official government vessels.
We trust his Honor, the Mayor, will understand that this information is a classified technology we have chosen to outline in the hopes of peaceful negotiations and alleviation of any fears the may instill.

-Manaan, Gar Michaels
Minister of Alien Affairs, United Dominion of Feazanthia

/END FILE/

/START FILE/

CONTENDER-series Artificial Personality and Intellect Construct

The CONTENDER-series of Artificial Personality and Intellect Constructs, also known as Artificial Intelligences or simply A.I., is the result of the Challenger Project developed during the Collective Wars. The project was, quite simply, a desperate attempt to develop a computer system capable of keeping up with and even out-thinking the hyper-coordination of Collective units. The Contender was the most viable of thirteen different proposals and proved to be the most effective in combat trials. It has since evolved into its currently utilized forms, henceforth known as the Second and Third generations of development.

The First generation Contender was, as historians have pointed out, an orgy of irony. In our ancestors' efforts to defeat an entity that gained strength by absorbing humanoid intelligence, they created a system that was based upon a humanoid brain. The original prototypes were designed based on high-intensity scans of the higher brain functions of project volunteers. These scans were then developed into a perceptual schematic, and given enough hardware to grow and expand. Though inefficient by modern standards, the first Contenders performed admirably, demonstrating that minds freed from the burdens of maintaining biological structures were capable of exponential increases in processing power. The subsequent generations further improved upon these original ideas.

The Second generation Contender currently equipped aboard Kiith Federation government vessels (and beginning to see more widespread use amongst Hegemony units) still utilizes the basic structure of a humanoid mental construct but requires the actual destruction of the host brain in order to create a new schematic. Fortunately, once the schematic is created, it is easily fabricated without further need of biological destruction. Additionally, the brains of deceased humans can be utilized as long as the organ is harvested before the onset of rigor mortis. Many citizens volunteer to have their brains harvested after death as a way of "living on", though ultimately only roughly 0.5% of these volunteers will be utilized and the former personality is wiped during the creation of the perceptual schematic. Once the basic schematic is in place, any number of programs can be uploaded to it. Though its nature as a former human mind makes the new intelligence resistant to harm fellow sentients, additional safeguards are uploaded to make it completely out of the realm of possibility unless given a direct order by a military officer of sufficient rank. The extent of a Contender A.I.'s knowledge is limited only by the size and strength of its supporting network, and though the processor power of individual schematics vary, the average is well into the millions of petaFLOPS.

The Third generation of the Contender series once again requires the destruction of an organic brain for the construction of a single intelligence, but the resulting increase in both processing power and memory based upon given structure is well worth the cost. Additional information has been deemed classified.

In the one-hundred fifty-seven year operational history of the Contender, only one has ever engaged in what engineers call a "Premature Rampancy Event", in which its actions became illogical before its determined minimum operation lifespan was reached (otherwise known as "rampancy"). The A.I. in question became violent towards its operators, but was forcibly taken offline by another Contender-series A.I. who observed the event and intervened. No biological operators were harmed, or even knew of the PRE until after the system had been taken down. The data resulting from the subsequent line-by-line deconstruction of the rampant A.I. resulted in a further sophistication of the safeguard software package, and no other incident has been reported since. While A.I.s operating at peak capacity for several years will "burn out", resulting in rampancy, this phenomenon is well documented and can be predicted with great accuracy and little difficulty. Intelligences showing risk of becoming rampant are taken offline and are either recycled or re-coded to extend their life period. It has been found that allowing an A.I. to develop its own personality during its "growpramming" stage further increases the time to rampancy, and as such a myriad of different and individual A.I. systems now exist with varying personalities and avatars.

This concludes the overview of the CONTENDER-series Artificial Personality and Intellect Construct.

/END FILE/

..Outgoing Message File..
..Transmitted on Mundane Systems, non Khalas Transmission..
..Destination: The Traders Economic Coalition..
..Origin: The Conclave, desk of The Executor..

After much deliberation The Conclave has decided it's in The Rotan Empire's better interests to seek full membership into the TEC. As such, we will be sending a fleet of Arbitors for Military escort. With their large cloaking field capable of covering entire fleets and their ability to warp in reinforcements, we have no doubt that the Arbitors will be satisfactory in that department.

We have read the messages going back and forth on the concern over AI. Allow me to assure the colonies that The Empire uses no AI in it's trading, and no probes will be sent on the trading fleets that enter colonial space.

As for the ships themselves, obviously they have computers, but no form of intelligence, we link our minds to our computers. This is why no Human can operate a Rotan ship.

We hope this is satisfactory on all sides.

Received at the TEC offices without warning of an incoming message:

"Harken unto my words and attend to me. Know that I am The Overmind, The Eternal Will of The Swarm, and I wish to be at peace with thee. The Traders Economic Coalition interests me. The Swarm has collected numerous objects, technologies, and goods from the worlds it farms. As such, The Swarm is willing to trade these things for Biomass, and new strains of Genetic Data. We apply for full membership with this in mind.

I detect thoughts most alien to me about artificial intelligence. I know not what this is beyond a tool of lesser entities to control flawed and fumbling machines. The Swarm is organic, The Swarm is perfection of Evolution, we need no such device as AI. Anyone who worries about AI need not fear it from us."

OOC: Decided to do it under this nation as well.

I sincierly hope the overmind didnt mean people.... If it didnt then i shall give it bio mass all right *opens a pack of sausages*

As the foremost experts on The Swarm, and possessors of the only thing they fear, we feel confident enough to assure you that the swarm did not mean people when it mean biomass. No, no, anything non-sentient is good for it, and it doesn't even have to be healthy. Got a herd of cattle with mad cow disease? Easy trade.

As for Genetic Data, a blood sample is fine. Though we highly doubt anyone is going to willingly fork over DNA to something that can use it to breed a new strain of terrifying monsters.

Welcome to the TEC, the UTF has been informed about the dominions misgivings about swarm membership and trust issues, as such you are accepted under the condition that no swarm assets will be allowed in dominion territory(IE ships), unless the swarm and dominion themselves negotiate proper terms. . we would probably like to contract the swarm to construct bio soldiers based on an old idryal designed bio replication factory we found. They seem to be rather nasty beings, with a little cybernetic alteration to be controlled and made sentient they can be effective guardians. we also note that the colonials do not wish AI in their borders, they do not want to regulate other nations, if its an issue we shall provide basic navigation and command and control units that are non sentient to nations that do not have those, so that this issue may not arise. We as an organization must respect others laws and others national identity, the Federation has seen first hand via holo net and reports what the colonies have been through and understand it may be centuries or thousands of years before the colonies trust AI or sentient AI again. In neutral space and space out side of the colonies we would not be required to disable our AI's, However inside if invited in to colonial space we would, The Federation thinks its a reasonable request. Surely for nations who use AI it would not be hard to disable or put to sleep temporarily the AI in their ships for a simple trade run.

((Just clarifying. The Colonies recognize that TRIAD is in fact at odds with the TEC, right?))

"No I didn't mean people. If I wanted to eat people I would've simply invaded instead. The very fact that I am attempting to trade suggests I do not want people. Though yes you humans are crunchy and go well with the proper sauce, I have decided to refrain from people for an unspecified period of time." The Overmind said. This very statement was perhaps the most frightening ever said by The Overmind, not because of it's content, but because it was an attempt at humor.

"As for bioengineering soldiers for you, this is another service I offer. Though you must understand, perfecting a strain requires more biomass than the simple support of the swarm. As such, I will demand a higher price for such services, but at the same time, I can promise you, that you won't find anyone better suited to the manipulation of Genetic Data. The price will be dependent on a few factors, such as the degree of difficulty in the project, the time it takes to complete it, and the number of soldiers you want produced.

But there is one other thing to consider. I must be cautious about what I take on, because over 90% of the swarm is devoted to one of two current tasks, farming our holdings in the secret sector known as Zerus, or the exploration of a curious concept known as The World Hive. As such, I will not do more than one engineering project at a time, nor will I produce more than 500,000 units in a single production run. This alone would take half of the remaining five percent of the swarm, the remaining half being devoted to the tasks of trading, and pursuit of The Great Old Ones." The Overmind continued in a more serious vein.

The dragona will happily send vast amounts of Janei'qua to the Swarm on behalf of the UTF, but this is on the assumption that these guardians will be used for regulation of security aboard the TEC facilitys, on top of the mercenerys that we are hireing.

That is our only condition, but we will happily send the biomass to the swarm anyway, as part of a large, imperial sanctioned, trade shipment, if that condition is not met.

((Just clarifying. The Colonies recognize that TRIAD is in fact at odds with the TEC, right?))

(Actually no. I thought they were members of it. If I am mislead in this belief I would appreciate clarification so I can delete this post.)

Edit: Sorry for the confusion. TFU had cleared it up for me. Deleting prior post.

bump

((The TEC forums are now online. All members are encouraged to check them out and make suggestions.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/TEC_Administration

))

The Empire of The Wolf (FT Nation Name) wishes to join the TEC

Welcome to the TEC

bumpish

indeed, BUMP

Might I inquire as to why The Swarm and The Rotan are not on the charter as signatories on the forums?

(ooc: That was a copy of the charter pre swarm/rotan joining)

As we currently have little in the way of comunications with them as of late, the dragona empire wishes to inform The Federal Union that we have with drawn from the valliant wars due to an utter lack of activity in torturous chamber.

We would like to make it known that ships not using TEC lanes will now be safe, well as safe as if they were in a TEC lane, while in our teritory.

buuummmpppish

Bump it gose.

No worry friend, my forces protect the lanes, his people can do jack poop against us XP, afterall I AM one of the first to yell GM to the mods. Or fire the ignore cannon...

<\ \> DCS.U#281-MW.CT >> SYSTEM.LOCAL.ALL
<\ RELAY (ORIGIN CODE: DCS.U#003-CE.PRIME.CONC.NPC)
<\ ENCRYPTION CODE: GREEN
<\ FROM: Gar Michaels Manaan, Minister of Alien Affairs, Concordia
<\ TO: Traders Economic Coalition; Signatories
<\ SUBJECT: Aargoneth


/START FILE/

The Dominion would like to announce that the Aargoneth, the first trade station of its class, will soon be online and open to TEC trade ships. The Aargoneth can be found in the Anta're system, 0.5 astronomical units beyond the furthest extent of Anta're's gravitational pull (and thus outside Dominion space).

With the opening of the Aargoneth, the Dominion will be launching its first ever warship trade effort. Many of the Dominion's corporations will be on-hand to present and sell the export versions of their craft for all the galaxy.

We announce this, because all full Trader Economic Coalition member governments will receive a 15% discount at Aargoneth.

Appointments preferred. Please send requests on this frequency to the following coordinates (see attached: coord.dat). Aargoneth shall be added to the TEC communications network under the heading DTS.U#115-AR.

Thank you.
-Gar Michaels Manaan, Minister of Alien Affairs

To: The Nations of the TEC

The Holy Imperium of Angenteria would like to express it's interest in becoming a member state of the TEC, seeing the possible economic benefits of this organization.

((Due to tonight's rather...unsavory events, I feel it is time to assess the future of the TEC.

Please proceed to my thread on the TEC forums using the link below.

http://z3.invisionfree.com/TEC_Administration/index.php?showtopic=3

Thank you))

No need I'm back in the TEC as every thing has been solved to my satisfaction.

After last night's little tirade, you will understand the apprehension of many at allowing you back into the TEC. Or in staying in a TEC with you as a member.

Just sayin'.

As I've said, we agreed the conflicts of TEC members are nothing to do with the TEC... the whole thing was baised on a flawed excuse...

Fedral Union where do you wish this storyline to go. As you said in the IC Thread my ships armaments could still destroy your system from very far away, so telling me to leave doesn't help your situation. The fact that your system has not been harmed should tell you that destruction of your system is not my ships objective. Do you really want to fire on my ship knowing it's capablities? I am interested in securing the peace ... nothing more. :)

Fedral Union where do you wish this storyline to go. As you said in the IC Thread my ships armaments could still destroy your system from very far away, so telling me to leave doesn't help your situation. The fact that your system has not been harmed should tell you that destruction of your system is not my ships objective. Do you really want to fire on my ship knowing it's capablities? I am interested in securing the peace ... nothing more. :)

(I'll take my chances in shooting at it. Icly we don't trust any one right now because of what happened and the war is none of your concern the way my government sees it.. If your nation wants to cause a war with me its on the right track.)

FU I'd have to say that some of that technology you claim to be using could be considered a Godmod if you are saying that my ships can't use FLT and that you are able to see through my ghost cloaking device. Further I will need the size and capabilies of all the ships you mentioned before I can post a response to your moves.

***************************************************

Coreworlds I only mean to defend myself from unneeded aggression from Fedral Union. As I have tried to explain to FU .... I could have already destroyed his solar system from outside with a surprise strike if that was my objective. Even so he continues to aggravate the situation with his attitude. I have no problem powering down my long range weapons that could be used against planetary bodies, however I will defend myself if attacked.

FTLI is an accepted device by NS, also.

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3w.html#nostealth No stealth in space.

You are aware that being able to see someone else's ship is the prerogative of the defending player, right? Now, normally there might be room for argument, but seeing as you claim that you can obliterate his system from quite some distance away, it's perfectly logical for him to be able to see you. And as for FTLi, he didn't actually say you -can't- use FTL. He just said he'd activated his own FTLi. Whether it works on you or not is really a question of whether you want your FTLi to work on him. I mean, it's generally considered courteous to do so, especially considering that otherwise you run into the "asteroid warped into your bridge" problem, which is a jerkish problem at best.

You are aware that being able to see someone else's ship is the prerogative of the defending player, right? Now, normally there might be room for argument, but seeing as you claim that you can obliterate his system from quite some distance away, it's perfectly logical for him to be able to see you. And as for FTLi, he didn't actually say you -can't- use FTL. He just said he'd activated his own FTLi. Whether it works on you or not is really a question of whether you want your FTLi to work on him. I mean, it's generally considered courteous to do so, especially considering that otherwise you run into the "asteroid warped into your bridge" problem, which is a jerkish problem at best.

Not when the ships are cloaked, at least not entirely. My Ghost Cloak is more advanced then standard romulan cloaks. My claim to being able to destroy a system from a distance is well documented by the weapon designers. I suggest you check out weapons called Galaxy Guns, Super Lasers & Sun Crusher Cannons which are all long range weapons, not to mention Orbital Nightcloaks which are designed to orbit the target world.

Being that I have a time limit on the computer here at the library I will be back on tomorrow.

Yeah, I didn't mention specific types of cloak. I just, y'know, talked about traditional RP etiquette, not giant asspace guns. Simply put, you're capable of destroying his system from far, far away. That gives him the "defender" tag inherently regarding that ship, especially since you're making such a big deal out of the ability. Thus, the decision about whether he can see it or not isn't really up to you.

FTLi, of course, is only the defender's prerogative when it's actually either in their system or onboard their ships - which is to say if you're invading his system or shooting at his ships FTL-wise. So if you want to jump away, it might be considered rude, but certainly not wrong RP-wise.

Protip: Please, for the love of god don't try and condescend to me by assuming that my argument is somehow based on a lack of canon knowledge from a specific, relatively shitty book series. It doesn't make you look smart.

Oh, and the "weapon designers" reference matters about as much as whipping out your cock and pissing in a rainstorm. Whether it's referenced in canon or not is completely irrelevent, and being told that your weapons need to be accepted because they're from a TV show or movie is not only wrong, it's offensive to those of us who design original, physics-compliant tech.

((Here's a question. How are you hiding your heat signature?

I mean, how exactly are you hiding the thermal exhaust from your reactor, your engines, your life support, and everything else? Unless you're extending your "cloak" over a ridiculous amount of space, you simply can't hide your thermal signature of thousands of Kelvin against the 3 Kelvin backdrop of space.

Protip: For every watt of power you spend on something useful (such as, say, a "cloaking field") you generate 4 watts of waste heat.

THERE AINT NO STEALTH IN SPACE))

There is really only one way to 'cloak' a ship: Ignore physics and handwave the resulting problems.

Now, does that mean that someone cannot cloak their ships in RP? Maybe. That totally depends on who's playing. Myself, I do not accept or acknowledge total stealth/cloaking of ships in space. I *will* ignore any uses of such 'technology'. I doubt I am alone in this opinion.

However... There are plenty of players who recognize such fictions as cloaking devices, no matter how they 'work'. If you have the fortune to play against or with one of these players, by all means cloak away.

Bottom line, respect goes a *long* way.

Although yes, in Real life with real world physics there is no way to cloak a ship in space or to use stealth. Although at the same token ANYTHING FTL is also impossible. You can not exceed the speed of light. Should one ignore anything FTL because it isn't possible, like you are suggesting for Stealth in Space?

If you are one light hour away from my ship, using passive sensors yes you can detect my ship, where it was one hour ago. You will not be able to tell where it is now.

Hince the problem with Real physics in NS FT, or any sci fi. To be a hard physics player as most of you are seeming to be, you can not even get to the nearest solar system in less than 200 years. For instance yes you can see a ship from Alpha Centari as the article says, but since it is 4 light years away, it would take you 4 years to for the heat signature and optics to reach your sensors to find out the ship was there. In 4 years it would be long gone.

Be careful when you accuse others of hand waiving unless you actually obey physics, which means no planet popping weapons, no FTL Coms, Sensors, or even Travel, along with the multitude of other problems that goes along with Hard Physics in sci fi settings.

So just live and let live. If Korm wants to have cloaks let her. We all hand waive no matter how hard physics you think you are. If you don't want to play with her that is your choice, but don't berate her for not following physics unless you yourself completely follow them, which would lead to quite a stagnant and boring story.

You misunderstand me. I do not immediately ignore cloaks. Look at the Privateers thread, where my carrier group was ambushed by three supercapital ships utilizing cloak technology.

What I do choose to ignore are those who think that cloaking technology is the almighty technology, that will always work and will always be impenetrable. People who field fleets of Scimitar-class vessels from Star Trek Nemesis, with their "perfect" cloaks and ability to unleash devastating firepower with no threat of retribution.

Also - even in the Star Trek universe cloaking technology is fatally flawed, in that a keen observer can still see the reaction mass from your engines coming out the rear of your ship ("things gotta have a tail pipe"). It's just never been taken advantage of in combat save for once.

I didn't misunderstand you, I fully understand what you mean. To claim any system is perfect, is pretty much Godmode. To claim it can't be beat, or detected is Godmode, and thus should be ignored.

What I was saying though, is to say it's impossible to stealth in FT is very absurd concept in science fiction. It's fiction and as such isn't bound by reality. To use reality as a basis for disproving a fictional element though is absurd, when the entire setting is fictional.

In a game of space elves, Jedi, Sith, Psionic creatures of doom, Warp drives, Jump drives, moon sized stations with a power core that emits 5 times the power of a sun, to rip a planet apart, .50 calibur singularity shots that can move at 1 C and rip a planet apart, and FTL sensors that can detect things 10 thousand light years away instantly, and some red goo that somehow magically becomes a black hole, is stealth in space really that big of a deal?

No it should never be perfect, and yes it has to have a tail pipe, but in the end, NS has much more wanky things in it. It's the nature of sci fi. And despite my personal feelings about a ship that has more explosive potential than the big bang did, I won't tell her that she can't have something. I would just have to choose if I desire to play with her or not.

I am with Feazanthia here. I do not ignore cloaking or stealth systems automatically. What I do ignore are total cloaking systems, which offer no possible way to detect the cloaked ship, barring some fault in the cloaking system, or an equally handwaved sensor (Tachyon Detection Grid anyone).

I suppose I should have worded things more carefully. No Stealth in Space wouldn't be accurate for me. No Cloaks in Space would fit better, as again it is only the absolute cloaking tech that I auto-ignore. Less complete stealth systems (Like the Normandy's stealth from Mass Effect), I am more than willing to accept and play alongside.

Finally, I am not a pure hard sci-fi player. By this I mean I do not follow Einstein, Relativity, and physics a hundred percent as a bible. I cheat physics where necessary for the story. I made up a whole class of exotic matter that is the fundamental core of half my native tech. Elorium allows me to make gravity and inertia my playthings. Beyond that, I do try to stay within the realm of 'plausible' technology and physics. If it's been proven right out impossible by RL physics (Like accelerating to or past light speed), then I don't use it. If it is a question that is still unproven one way or another, I'll consider it. There is still a lot of free ground in theoretical physics, which at present RL tech cannot be tested to see if it's possible or impossible, or simply just impractical. It is this realm of the theoretical that I base most of my toys.

Anyways, that probably makes me a minority in NS FT. I stand by my assertion I am likely not alone in ignoring use of absolute cloaking tech. Less total stealth however, can actually make things very interesting.

Okay, I got on a tangent there. I'm going to bow out of the conversation here, since we seem to be hijacking the thread for a discussion on what's real, what's not, and what's 'allowed' here. So, on with the circus I say!

havent we drifted off topic here? Atleast for this thread?

Tired, overused argument.

Look. This has been debated a hundred times. Essentially speaking, we all use FTL. It's accepted solely because we all use it. It's one violation of physics that's absolutely necessary to the kind of story we all want to play. But that's not really my complaint, nor anyone else's, at heart.

It's that Kormanthor didn't use cloaking technology as some useful plot device as we do FTL. Rather, she complained, telling TFU he shouldn't be able to see her ship, while also claiming that she had the power to obliterate his system from far away. Cloaking wasn't being used to advance the story, it was being used to tell another player that they couldn't stop her ship, and it was godmodding to even be able to see it, which is a necessary component of attempting to stop it in the event of it attacking. That's what I felt needed addressing - the physics complaint was merely scorn at the inherent idea of "looking up" fantasy weapons, as though that were somehow meaningful.

That's really the problem here, not the existence of cloaktech in and of itself.

Sidenote: Oh, and it's science fiction. I suspect, OG, that you are talking about fantasy. To say that it's absurd to hide in space is a perfectly normal component of science. Indeed, what makes science fiction science fiction is not the fact that it occurs in space, but that it violates perhaps one physical law in order to bring about a storyline, and then treats the remainder of physics as inviolate. The fewer laws it violates, the closer to science fiction it gets. After you break enough, you hit fantasy-in-space, like Star Trek or Wars.

Look. This has been debated a hundred times. Essentially speaking, we all use FTL. It's accepted solely because we all use it. It's one violation of physics that's absolutely necessary to the kind of story we all want to play. But that's not really my complaint, nor anyone else's, at heart.

It's that Kormanthor didn't use cloaking technology as some useful plot device as we do FTL. Rather, she complained, telling TFU he shouldn't be able to see her ship, while also claiming that she had the power to obliterate his system from far away. Cloaking wasn't being used to advance the story, it was being used to tell another player that they couldn't stop her ship, and it was godmodding to even be able to see it, which is a necessary component of attempting to stop it in the event of it attacking. That's what I felt needed addressing - the physics complaint was merely scorn at the inherent idea of "looking up" fantasy weapons, as though that were somehow meaningful.

That's really the problem here, not the existence of cloaktech in and of itself.

Sidenote: Oh, and it's science fiction. I suspect, OG, that you are talking about fantasy. To say that it's absurd to hide in space is a perfectly normal component of science. Indeed, what makes science fiction science fiction is not the fact that it occurs in space, but that it violates perhaps one physical law in order to bring about a storyline, and then treats the remainder of physics as inviolate. The fewer laws it violates, the closer to science fiction it gets. After you break enough, you hit fantasy-in-space, like Star Trek or Wars.

Look my cloak works the way " I " want it too, not the way you folks think it should. My tech is based on Star Trek, Star Wars and various other space based scifi tech. I don't care about what is possible in reality. In reality, the only real tech would be space shuttles with lasers and nukes in orbit of Earth. Beyond that one of you all TGed me asking me what I was going to do. I'm tired of everyone trying to tell me how my tech should work, how I should write and every other detail. You guys are taking all of the fun out of this forum in my opinion. If you don't want the big guns then don't call for them.

I actualy agree with him here. FT is Sci-fi for a reason. It isn't real.... However, if what I'm understandig of this is right (That you're firing some uber powerful weapon from far FAR away while cloaked?) then that is at least being boarderline god mod. Even with a thaleron cloak like that of the Scimitar (ST movie 'Nemisis') it would be ridiculous to assume people couldn't even track the weapon to its source, never mind detect it's firing.

Don't try saying that cloak is based off those from starwars (they're never given a full description) or many other Sci-fi series. None of them, to my knowledge, have a cloak that can completly and utterly hide any action, no matter of the size of said action.

Therefore, you don't have the ability to do what (I think) you're doing.

No one is trying to tell you what you can and can't do (I follow the same line as you do with you're tech), but you must realize that there are some things in FT that you just can't do.

Ultimately, RP is about what people do and do not accept. The fact is, Kormanthor, your ship is not something people are willing to accept, and for good reason. You tone it down, or get out. That's it.

Look my cloak works the way " I " want it too, not the way you folks think it should. My tech is based on Star Trek, Star Wars and various other space based scifi tech. I don't care about what is possible in reality. In reality, the only real tech would be space shuttles with lasers and nukes in orbit of Earth. Beyond that one of you all TGed me asking me what I was going to do. I'm tired of everyone trying to tell me how my tech should work, how I should write and every other detail. You guys are taking all of the fun out of this forum in my opinion. If you don't want the big guns then don't call for them.

Reading comprehension skills. Look into them.

Look my cloak works the way " I " want it too, not the way you folks think it should. My tech is based on Star Trek, Star Wars and various other space based scifi tech. I don't care about what is possible in reality. In reality, the only real tech would be space shuttles with lasers and nukes in orbit of Earth. Beyond that one of you all TGed me asking me what I was going to do. I'm tired of everyone trying to tell me how my tech should work, how I should write and every other detail. You guys are taking all of the fun out of this forum in my opinion. If you don't want the big guns then don't call for them.

Kormanthor - The ship may be a ship in legitimate sci-fi canon. but that does not matter.

Yes, it's Free-form RP which means there is "no game system" for ships to comply with. Things happen cause we say they happen, but there's a problem. It's akin to the Immovable object vs. Irresstable Force problem what happens when a perfect cloak system comes against an equally perfect detector array. It comes down to this sort of complaining and whining.

Which is why the nationstates RP community has a set of norms that everyone that RPs here is expected to abide by. You are new, so you may not know that your ship is contradictory to those norms. Fine, consider this information.

So what do you do now?

1. You can continue to RP, without making any changes.

This is not good, and will result in a firing of the IGNORE cannon (basically, people will just ignore your posts and pretend they didn't happen.

2. You can continue to RP, and make changes to follow the Norms of these forums.

This is the much prefered option, conflict will stop and I am sure there are many people who are willing to help you so you don't break more of the norms. This involves a compromise, not saying that your ship can't have a cloak, but that there are limitations inherit in any tech.

3. You can leave.

It's simple, there are expectations associated with NS RP particularily with FT and if you don't want to follow these social expectations then it's better to simply acknowledge it and move on. NS may not be the best place for you, that's not your fault not ours. but it will save a lot of heartache if you don't want to change.

Kormanthor
I like to post

Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,601

He's not new, which is why this is somewhat surprising.

Ultimately, RP is about what people do and do not accept. The fact is, Kormanthor, your ship is not something people are willing to accept, and for good reason. You tone it down, or get out. That's it.


Derscon if you had read the sign up page, then you know that it says each of us can run our country the way we wish to run it. That means that I don't have to except your rantings.

I don't know who you think you are by telling me to tone it down or get out. If you noticed I left the thread long before I was aware of your rantings. The bottom line is that I don't really care what you are willing to except Dercon. :p

There have been numerous people that had ships, ect... that I had my own opinions about but I have never attacked them like you have attacked me after others TGed me to ask me what I was going to do. I was simply trying to stop a war, obviously that wasn't what the thread was meant to do. :$

I have always tried to be fair to everyone in my threads, even when they disagreed with me. Unforunately sometimes when I am in other folks threads I can't seem to get the same respect back that I give others. :(

He's not new, which is why this is somewhat surprising.


Oh and I'm not a he for your information Derscon. :rolleyes:

(ooc: Are we going on with the thread or not?)

Please don't allow this misunderstanding to ruin the thread for everyone.

Kormanthor - The ship may be a ship in legitimate sci-fi canon. but that does not matter.

Yes, it's Free-form RP which means there is "no game system" for ships to comply with. Things happen cause we say they happen, but there's a problem. It's akin to the Immovable object vs. Irresstable Force problem what happens when a perfect cloak system comes against an equally perfect detector array. It comes down to this sort of complaining and whining.

Which is why the nationstates RP community has a set of norms that everyone that RPs here is expected to abide by. You are new, so you may not know that your ship is contradictory to those norms. Fine, consider this information.

So what do you do now?




1. You can continue to RP, without making any changes.

This is not good, and will result in a firing of the IGNORE cannon (basically, people will just ignore your posts and pretend they didn't happen.

2. You can continue to RP, and make changes to follow the Norms of these forums.

This is the much prefered option, conflict will stop and I am sure there are many people who are willing to help you so you don't break more of the norms. This involves a compromise, not saying that your ship can't have a cloak, but that there are limitations inherit in any tech.

3. You can leave.

It's simple, there are expectations associated with NS RP particularily with FT and if you don't want to follow these social expectations then it's better to simply acknowledge it and move on. NS may not be the best place for you, that's not your fault not ours. but it will save a lot of heartache if you don't want to change.


" As I already stated, I left the thread before I even knew of Derscon's Ultamatum. I am not looking for trouble, and I will stay out of this one. I may return in another TEC Thread if there are no objections. I have no plans of leaving the TEC unless I am no longer welcome. Regardless I have no intentions of leaving NS, I will run my country, particapate in other threads where I am welcome and write my own storylines about happenstance in my Empire as I have always done before. "

Kormanthor, you completely and totally missed the point of everything Baz and I said. But if you're leaving, then fine.

And would you prefer "it" next time?