NationStates Jolt Archive

Why not create an equivalent of the WA for FT nations? If so, I would like some ideas on how it should work. Not much here to go off of, but that's because I need ideas.

OOC: I thought the WA was for all tech levels?

(OOC: Because it would FAIL.

In FT diplomacy is only about big space guns and kinetic-kills, and there are more than only one civilization that is willing to exterminate every sentient being that doesn't belong to their species, and alliances that would oppose such pointless thing )

(OOC: Because it would FAIL.

In FT diplomacy is only about big space guns and kinetic-kills, and there are more than only one civilization that is willing to exterminate every sentient being that doesn't belong to their species, and alliances that would oppose such pointless thing )


Excuse me but guns don't kill people by themselves, the people using them do. My point is that people of all tech levels use guns to promote their beliefs
and / or protect themselves from the ones that are.

but its in FT that most disagreements are settled by war not diplomacy also think... dalek, they want everything dead ,they wouldn't care, i like the WA as is!

Excuse me but guns don't kill people by themselves, the people using them do. My point is that people of all tech levels use guns to promote their beliefs
and / or protect themselves from the ones that are.

(OOC: That was not my point.

My point is that if in MT where (usually) every NS is inhabited by humans and diplomacy tends to be slightly more reasonable, the WA and attempts to make something more functional failed, achieving world peace IRL would probably be easier than making of this concept more than another pointless paper tiger for both IC and OOC reasons. Unless that is exactly the OP's intention

And it is unrealistic anyway. Having Hitler, Stalin, Churchill and the leader of fictional independent Israeli state sign a mutual protection pact in some "alternate history WW2 RP" in other boards is probably more believable than it)

At the moment it would be pointless. Nothing is really happening in FT currently, and a number of old FT powers from ages past are only just begining to come out of retirement.

Give it a few months and a FT diplomatic forum could be a good idea, but not now.

il drink to that!

I was under the impression that it wasn't people who killed other people, it was the bullet and fall that killed them.
:/

but its in FT that most disagreements are settled by war not diplomacy also think... dalek, they want everything dead ,they wouldn't care, i like the WA as is!


My country is FT and we definately believe in Diplomacy. However, there are some folks who don't respond to diplomacy. Should we then just allow these types of folks to always get their way? Should we allow them to take what they want in order to maintain the Peace? I think NOT. :rolleyes:

At the moment it would be pointless. Nothing is really happening in FT currently, and a number of old FT powers from ages past are only just begining to come out of retirement.

Give it a few months and a FT diplomatic forum could be a good idea.


I agree that a diplomatic forum is a good idea or maybe just diplomatic threads between enemies.

However, there are some folks who don't respond to diplomacy. Should we then just allow these types of folks to always get their way? Should we allow them to take what they want in order to maintain the Peace? I think NOT. :rolleyes:

Try and stop us! ^_^

Try and stop us! ^_^


I believe my point has been made.

Indeed it has, glad to be of assistance. ^_^


Closest thing that would possibly work would be a "neutral ground" enforced by a bunch of members where those who agree to said neutral ground could come together to talk.

You'd have the problem of some species ICly trolling the delegates, and those who try to disrupt proceedings by attacking said neutral ground, requiring guard fleets, but given how unlikely peace is anyway...

Which is why I'm suggesting that it wait until after us old timers get back onto our feet. If the diplomatic forum were located in Auman it would be more than protected against outside attack and be hosted and maintained by one of the best diplomats in NS.

Yeah... let's give it some time

Any attempt to make this work would basically require an agreed-to godmoding for the neutral ground. That is the only way the WA actually works; the mods have god mode turned on for it and have pretty much made it unassailable in actual RP. Despite the fact the idea of attacking the WA building should be allowable (real life proved how easy it is to hit UN buildings), the way the game is set up it is actually effectively impossible.

Think about it: If the WA building were actually attackable, do you think it would still be standing after one day?

As it stands, I don't see this working that well. You would pretty much have to spend each day praying that someone doesn't find some way of taking out the neutral ground that you've not got a defense against or you would have to accept someone outright godmoding. Do you really wish either?

Actually, that the neutral grounds could be besieged wouldn't be a bad thing.

Hell, the thing could even be done with long-range teleoperated holographic avatars, creating a feeling of "so you blew it up... so what?"

There's no need for godmoding or any magical defenses. You just need a very large, very powerful nation that knows how to neutrality to host the diplomatic forum. Thus my suggestion of waiting until Auman and myself are reestablished. It would be suicide for anyone to attempt to attack targets on our homeworlds with anything less than a death star and half the Imperial navy. Except it would still be suicide because then every nation in the forum would hit them back even harder.

Actually, that the neutral grounds could be besieged wouldn't be a bad thing.

Tell that to the admins. I really, really would love to RP a multi-tech war involving the WA building being beseiged and have it have actual, possible consequences. It would be epic!

Hell, the thing could even be done with long-range teleoperated holographic avatars, creating a feeling of "so you blew it up... so what?"

In that case, there wouldn't be a need for neutral ground at all. They'd just talk to each other directly.

There's no need for godmoding or any magical defenses. You just need a very large, very powerful nation that knows how to neutrality to host the diplomatic forum. Thus my suggestion of waiting until Auman and myself are reestablished. It would be suicide for anyone to attempt to attack targets on our homeworlds with anything less than a death star and half the Imperial navy. Except it would still be suicide because then every nation in the forum would hit them back even harder.

Actually, I'm pretty sure there would be a need for magical defenses. I know at least two FT nations also use magic. Nothing like protecting your nation from every possible direction, only to have a suicide bomber appear out of the Astral Plane and take out the building in one shot.

You're completely missing the point. Although the defenses would be strong enough to prevent any successful attacks, the threat of massive retaliation would be the primary defense.

You're completely missing the point. Although the defenses would be strong enough to prevent any successful attacks, the threat of massive retaliation would be the primary defense.

I just have one question: Realistically, has such a threat ever actually prevented someone determined to do it from actually doing it?

I just have one question: Realistically, has such a threat ever actually prevented someone determined to do it from actually doing it?

That no nation has dared attack either the U.S. or Russia since 1945 should answer your question.

That no nation has dared attack either the U.S. or Russia since 1945 should answer your question.

Septemer 11, 2001.

That no nation has dared attack either the U.S. or Russia since 1945 should answer your question.

true but in NS terms someone could just use a puppet to besiege the WA building thus no big problems for the culprit.

Septemer 11, 2001.

lern2read

i can read technically sept/11/01 wasn't a nation it was religious extremists who hate America plus September isn't spelled "septemer"

lern2read

It was done by Al Queda, which is an organization that was backed by the Taliban, who happened to be the leaders of Afghanistan at the time. In fact, IIRC, Al Queda was an officially-recognized organization of the government at the time.

It helps to know modern history.

i can read technically sept/11/01 wasn't a nation it was religious extremists who hate America plus September isn't spelled "septemer"

Religious extremists who happened to control an entire nation at the time.

It was done by Al Queda, which is an organization that was backed by the Taliban, who happened to be the leaders of Afghanistan at the time. In fact, IIRC, Al Queda was an officially-recognized organization of the government at the time.
.

that i didn't know...

Al Qaeda and the Taliban are two different organizations that are unrelated except that they were both in Afghanistan and both happened to be Muslim extremists.

I suppose that you think that Oklahoma City was an attack by the U.S. Army because McVeigh was in the Army at one point too.

Al Qaeda and the Taliban are two different organizations that are unrelated except that they were both in Afghanistan and both happened to be Muslim extremists.

I suppose that you think that Oklahoma City was an attack by the U.S. Army because McVeigh was in the Army at one point too.

Except the two groups were working together in Afghanistan, were training fighters together, were doing military operations together, and the Taliban outright protected bin Laden from extradition from 1998 until their removal from power in 2001. Oh, and the Al Queda fighters known as the 055 Brigade were actually part of the Taliban's army in Afghanistan. There's also the report that one of bin Laden's sons married the daughter of Mullah Omar. Oh, and let's not forget that Omar rebuffed Saudi Arabia to keep bin Laden within Afghanistan, thus cutting the Taliban off from its patron.

I'm pretty certain you don't integrate them into the army and insult your patrons over someone you're unrelate to.

General is that way.

Being on very friendly terms does not make them related. Either way, NS is not the pussified post-cold war US and an attack like that would never work against a FT power.

Being on very friendly terms does not make them related. Either way, NS is not the pussified post-cold war US and an attack like that would never work against a FT power.

Nice of you to concede the point, even as begrudging as it was.

And, seriously, you think a terrorist attack cannot be done in FT on the neutral grounds that would be set up? Or are you telling me that your tech is simply too far advanced for it to be possible?

Nice of you to concede the point, even as begrudging as it was.

And, seriously, you think a terrorist attack cannot be done in FT on the neutral grounds that would be set up? Or are you telling me that your tech is simply too far advanced for it to be possible?

I conceded nothing, and I am saying that a terrorist attack would not work against Vascilians in FT because we tend to run keep security very high, especially where foreigners are concerned, and will shoot first without hesitation if someone tries something stupid.

That no nation has dared attack either the U.S. or Russia since 1945 should answer your question.

Damansky Island.

I conceded nothing,

You tried not to concede anything. The fact I can prove they are working together and protecting each other shows them to have become related to each other. In the marriage in particular, the being related is a bit more literal.

Or, we can both agree to drop it. There's already been one request.

I am saying that a terrorist attack would not work against Vascilians in FT because we tend to run keep security very high, especially where foreigners are concerned, and will shoot first without hesitation if someone tries something stupid.

Does that include appearing out of the Astral Plane and blowing themselves up in the center of the building?

The problem I have with a building that is supposedly unassailable is that no building is truly unassailable. You just have to know how to attack it to take it down. At the same time, no building is truly free of terrorism; you'd need a race of telepaths to stop most, and even that can be bypassed by someone who knows what they're doing. Not to mention the vast number of different technologies you would need to defend against, including some involving magic. And worse of all, if they succeed, you may not have anyone for your threat of military retaliation to actually be effective against, thus removing one of the biggest defenses you have; after all, everyone has terrorist groups, and I bet they'd be perfectly willing to remove those terrorists for you and hand you a set of convenient culprits.

Stupid crap.

Now you're just being stupid and should stop talking.

Now you're just being stupid and should stop talking.

Thank you for conceding the entire argument.

Does that include appearing out of the Astral Plane and blowing themselves up in the center of the building?

FTLi. Most forms tend to block any form of inter-planar transition, be it hyperspace or magical, unless there's a good reason for being able to break through.


Just throwing that into the equation.

FTLi. Most forms tend to block any form of inter-planar transition, be it hyperspace or magical, unless there's a good reason for being able to break through.


Just throwing that into the equation.

Already did that for ya on MSN Neo. =D

You can thank me later with cookies. ^_^

Thank you for conceding the entire argument.

You are not a good troll. Stop trying.

Already did that for ya on MSN Neo. =D

You can thank me later with cookies. ^_^

Like hell! ^_^

Treating others with arrogance does nothing but make you look like an ass, Bryn. I can see your point, but what Elyn is saying is that you cannot possibly cover all points and that, although the chance of it is small, an attack COULD succeed.

FTLi. Most forms tend to block any form of inter-planar transition, be it hyperspace or magical, unless there's a good reason for being able to break through.


Just throwing that into the equation.

That would work. And it's just one part of the equation. Though, that does make me wonder what it would do with one of Eluneyasa's Nether Drives. And whether or not it might allow another form of terrorism using FTL drives.

In any case, I think the issue I have is with the idea that any terrorist action just wouldn't work. You'd have to have already thought of technology forms and attacks that don't even exist in NS yet. And while it could be done, it would probably be techwank due to all of the requirements of it. It might require outright techwank, just due to all of the differences.

Now, one that is destroyable and that you can have a serious war over... that would be sweet. It would be interesting to RP out the whole thing of terrorist vs. enforcer and the aftermath. Probably highly entertaining to see what things have to be come up with just to attempt to get the terrorism done with.

You are not a good troll. Stop trying.

Irony, given your actions on this thread thus far.

Look, please contact me when you have something intelligent to add. And I don't mean techwank "our defenses are just so good it's impossible" BS. Until then, good bye.

Someone exploiting a hole in the defenses isn't a problem, anyway. It's an RP opportunity.

I would think some thing like this would be sort of like a League Of non Aligned worlds from B5, where every one came together to talk about their issues request aid and such but it wouldn't necessarily be an alliance, the WA in NS just sits around on its butt and passes laws that affect the internal workings of a nation and provides nothing of those services. Some thing like what I described would have absolutely no power like that what so ever, and my nation would most certainly join.

Someone exploiting a hole in the defenses isn't a problem, anyway. It's an RP opportunity.

Amen to that.

Amen to that.

Shut up, Rob, nobody loves yo- Oh, wait, agreeing with me...


... Okay then. ^_^

Treating others with arrogance does nothing but make you look like an ass, Bryn. I can see your point, but what Elyn is saying is that you cannot possibly cover all points and that, although the chance of it is small, an attack COULD succeed.

If someone wants to argue like a retard they shouldn't expect me to dignify their idiocy with a serious debate. 0.99999999 repeating may not be 1, but that doesn't mean I need to consider that tiny fraction of a fraction of a percent.

When you consider that the closest thing to an attack that ever happened to the Duma was a cripple torching himself on the sidewalk in front of the building and that Mars was one of the most violent and least secure places in the galaxy, I can safely assume that a building deep within the borders of a non-interventionalist FT superpower will never be attacked, let alone attacked successfuly.

When you consider that the closest thing to an attack that ever happened to the Duma was a cripple torching himself on the sidewalk in front of the building and that Mars was one of the most violent and least secure places in the galaxy, I can safely assume that a building deep within the borders of a non-interventionalist FT superpower will never be attacked, let alone attacked successfuly.

There was also a dragon eating one of the delegates.

There was also a dragon eating one of the delegates.

That's not really an attack on the Duma though, and to be fair he probably deserved it given the delegates that get sent to the Duma.

Not to mention the vast number of different technologies you would need to defend against, including some involving magic.[

Bryn Shander is a D&D-based nation, as you could have guessed by the name.

The way to do this is to set up a location where every member nation would provide a different technology to protect it. Bryn Shander could proof it against magic and teleportation by having some 20th-level mages cast an anti-magic and anti-teleport field on it. Allanea would set up a set of shields and FTL inhibitors. Balrogga (or whoever) would provide a powerful telepath. Ban weapons over a certain power level from the place, and voila, impregnable fortress.

Worse yet, it is not necessary for such an FT UN to have a physical headquarters. It is quite possible to have a headquarters where the various diplomats communicate via remotely-piloted avatars, thus eliminating the threat of terrorism entirely.

Magic missile at the darkness?

Well, what about the classic giant space armada? Given the numbers and firepower, any fleet can eventually break their defenses.

[
Worse yet, it is not necessary for such an FT UN to have a physical headquarters. It is quite possible to have a headquarters where the various diplomats communicate via remotely-piloted avatars, thus eliminating the threat of terrorism entirely.

That's brilliant!

Hell, the thing could even be done with long-range teleoperated holographic avatars, creating a feeling of "so you blew it up... so what?"

Absolutely brilliant!

XD

[

Bryn Shander is a D&D-based nation, as you could have guessed by the name.
Correction. USED to be a D&D based nation. A long time ago.
That's brilliant!



Absolutely brilliant!

XD

But misses the point of making a neutral ground where people can come together and argue about their grievances.

Also you'd end up with half of the participants' navies wasting bandwidth on IRC.

Worse yet, it is not necessary for such an FT UN to have a physical headquarters. It is quite possible to have a headquarters where the various diplomats communicate via remotely-piloted avatars, thus eliminating the threat of terrorism entirely.

I don't know a particularly violent computer virus/worm that can somehow operate on the frequencies you would be using could work on one or two delegates before being discovered or erased leading to all kinds of fun, its really hard to account for all possibilities and the one you don't could lead to all kinds of death and destruction.(heck it doesn't even need to be violent just have it mess up translations every once and awhile and viole diplomatic incident that leads to war or cuts in commutations or whatever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo-Mekanta View Post
Hell, the thing could even be done with long-range teleoperated holographic avatars, creating a feeling of "so you blew it up... so what?"
Absolutely brilliant!

XDOr, you know, online. :P

The way to do this is to set up a location where every member nation would provide a different technology to protect it. Bryn Shander could proof it against magic and teleportation by having some 20th-level mages cast an anti-magic and anti-teleport field on it. Allanea would set up a set of shields and FTL inhibitors. Balrogga (or whoever) would provide a powerful telepath. Ban weapons over a certain power level from the place, and voila, impregnable fortress.

Mmm. Not really impregnable, but a challenge. I'd need an idea of the full defenses, but I'm pretty certain a way around them could be designed. However, that requires details.

And the telepaths can still be gotten around.

Worse yet, it is not necessary for such an FT UN to have a physical headquarters. It is quite possible to have a headquarters where the various diplomats communicate via remotely-piloted avatars, thus eliminating the threat of terrorism entirely.

It's not necessary to have a headquarters at all if you're doing it that way. Just set it up so there's a special room for it on every capital. Then, a terrorist group could blow up building after building and do nothing except annoy the entirety of it. If the rooms are designed right, they could be easily moved to other worlds or even made with multiples in each capital.

The neutral ground itself would be the digital space in which they convene. It actually exists nowhere and can be easily reconstructed if destroyed.

Magic missile at the darkness?

Well, what about the classic giant space armada? Given the numbers and firepower, any fleet can eventually break their defenses.

Good luck assembling a fleet that can defeat Bryn Shander, Auman, and their allies.

Could always throw in mandantory mindraping of all visitors.

Good luck assembling a fleet that can defeat Bryn Shander, Auman, and their allies.
You forgot the other nations that would have a vested interest in ensuring the safety of the diplomatic forum.
Could always throw in mandantory mindraping of all visitors.
Mindrape is such a negative term. I prefer "surprise mindsex."

Good luck assembling a fleet that can defeat Bryn Shander, Auman, and their allies.

Punch hard and punch fast and it could just be slightly possible, even FT nations take time to mobilize and if you could burn their fleets before they're put in action all the better. Almost any defense has some sort of backdoor or crack and if you can exploit it...

Punch hard and punch fast and it could just be slightly possible, even FT nations take time to mobilize and if you could burn their fleets before they're put in action all the better. Almost any defense has some sort of backdoor or crack and if you can exploit it...
You're forgetting the part where we're non-interventionalist. Our fleets spend the vast majority of their time at home.

tl;dr good luck with that.

even FT nations take time to mobilize

*giggles*

Depends. For some of us, "time" is a matter of minutes, tops.

You're forgetting the part where we're non-interventionist. Our fleets spend the vast majority of their time at home.

tl;dr good luck with that.

well if thats true, then its even easier. You wouldn't know of any build ups around your border past a certain point and you'd likely have most of your ships in mothballs/storage/noncombat usages and those you don't will likely be in one specific spot which anyone with decent intelligence can probably find and avoid. And if you are noon-interventionist then you haven't faced any real challenged for atime so your crews would be fairly relaxed and not use to combat,etc...(any uncertainty would be rectified by surviving your systems from afar/placing spies in key positions IC and ooc would be simply reviewing any of your past posting histories for strategies you use and coming up with ones to counter that and anything you'd likely come up with)

also does your nation have a decent number of art/artists?


*giggles*

Fine nongodmodding FT players(which I kind of doubt there are any but still) would take time to mobilize

Militant noninterventionist.

Good luck assembling a fleet that can defeat Bryn Shander, Auman, and their allies.

This is beginning to look more and more like a case where it will be a bunch of superlarge nations banding together to try to form a giant, unstoppable fleet to protect it. Which is why they would fail.

I asked before, repeatedly, and was never answered. I'll ask this again: How do you plan on countering one man doing something you didn't expect and bringing the whole mess crashing down? Not some nation, alliance, group, religious order, or even pirate fleet. One man.

Mindrape EVERYONE! Constantly!

Mindrape EVERYONE! Constantly!

That's already easy to counter ^^

I asked before, repeatedly, and was never answered. I'll ask this again: How do you plan on countering one man doing something you didn't expect and bringing the whole mess crashing down? Not some nation, alliance, group, religious order, or even pirate fleet. One man.

Let us look at what the Martian Duma did back when people actually roleplayed on Mars.

1.Several dozen nations cooperated to build the defenses. War robots were available on the premises at all times.
2.No weapons of any kind were allowed on the premises. In a space-opera FT setting, it's quite possible to scan for all known explosives, energy weapons, swords, and firearms. You are left trying to... maybe bite the other delegates.
3.All psionic, magical, etc. abilities were suppressed. Several heavily-magical nations cooperated to mage this happen.
4.FTL travel was inhibited in proximity to Mars.

This is beginning to look more and more like a case where it will be a bunch of superlarge nations banding together to try to form a giant, unstoppable fleet to protect it. Which is why they would fail.

I asked before, repeatedly, and was never answered. I'll ask this again: How do you plan on countering one man doing something you didn't expect and bringing the whole mess crashing down? Not some nation, alliance, group, religious order, or even pirate fleet. One man.

Strict security and a heavily armed population.

It might help when the only way to get to the assembly was by a special ship only provided to member nations. The building/neutral area/whatever would be in the Mewsland Galaxy, nearly 6 million light years away from Earth. Even so, Mewsland ships would make the trip in little more than a week (one week 10 hours 6 minutes 16.12 seconds to be precise)

It might help when the only way to get to the assembly was by a special ship only provided to member nations. The building/neutral area/whatever would be in the Mewsland Galaxy, nearly 6 million light years away from Earth. Even so, Mewsland ships would make the trip in little more than a week (178 hours to be precise)
Good job killing the idea once and for all. Eluneyasa could learn much from you.

Let us look at what the Martian Duma did back when people actually roleplayed on Mars.

People RPed Mars? I just thought it was used as a favorite test dummy in the WA for proposals that should be nuked from orbit.

1.Several dozen nations cooperated to build the defenses. War robots were available on the premises at all times.

Not a problem. Merely provides an area of caution. The robots themselves could even provide the necessary final catalyst for taking the place down, depending on their power cells.

2.No weapons of any kind were allowed on the premises. In a space-opera FT setting, it's quite possible to scan for all known explosives, energy weapons, swords, and firearms. You are left trying to... maybe bite the other delegates.

Nope. You get around this as you do in the real world: Bring the stuff in and construct it on site. Bring it in a few pieces as a time, and even hire people to bring in some of the pieces so that you don't look suspicious. If you set it up right, you construct and set off the bomb in the time it takes a security team to respond to the alarm going off and even begin to approach where you are. You could attempt to get around this with armed drones nearly everywhere, but that just ends up adding a few steps to the way you take the building down.

You could attempt to monitor this and the actions of every person involved, but all that does it make them even more cautious. By the point they're ready to bring the building down, they'd have already scouted out as much of your security as possible anyway. Any surveillance would certainly be known about long before the building was brought down.

3.All psionic, magical, etc. abilities were suppressed. Several heavily-magical nations cooperated to mage this happen.

Wouldn't be magical, psionic, or the like. And if it was, it would be set up in such a way that it would appear to be necessary items for the health of the diplomat and nondangerous to others there.

4.FTL travel was inhibited in proximity to Mars.

This just provides a different form of terrorism. Get a ship into proximity, design the engine to blow when it can't successfully engage in FTL, then activate it within the FTLi field. If the engine's done right, you could do some serious damage. One suggested way around this is to set up the FTLi fields to automatically disengage when they sense a ship's core about to overload. This has the amusing reaction of forcing the ship into FTL, as well as identifying the ship to your security. The only problem is if they utilize a ship that travels in real space in FTL.

Strict security and a heavily armed population.

A lot of casualties, then.

It might help when the only way to get to the assembly was by a special ship only provided to member nations. The building/neutral area/whatever would be in the Mewsland Galaxy, nearly 6 million light years away from Earth. Even so, Mewsland ships would make the trip in little more than a week (one week 10 hours 6 minutes 16.12 seconds to be precise)

Doesn't get around it. A single person would likely be relying on the transportation of the member nations anyway; it's less suspicious and makes the materials they bring even less suspect. Part of the idea is to give your targets all of the reason in the world to ignore you as a threat.

Everyone brought aboard would be thoroughly scanned.

More crap

And you called me a troll... :rolleyes:

Everyone brought aboard would be thoroughly scanned.

Still doesn't deter it. All of the items they would have would appear, to thorough scans, to be legit. In fact, they most likely would be legit alone; it's the combination of those items and items others are paid to bring in that would be the problem.

And you called me a troll... :rolleyes:

You know, you might want to stop and consider that these are legitimate ways around it. None of them impossible, all of them doable by a single person, and all of them easy to pull off. You'd be surprised the number of items that are legit which can be converted to nonlegit purposes.

And, honestly, if you're going to continue this kind of crap, then actually prove it instead of spouting your mouth off with it to avoid saying you were caught being wrong.

Let us look at what the Martian Duma did back when people actually roleplayed on Mars.

1.Several dozen nations cooperated to build the defenses. War robots were available on the premises at all times.
2.No weapons of any kind were allowed on the premises. In a space-opera FT setting, it's quite possible to scan for all known explosives, energy weapons, swords, and firearms. You are left trying to... maybe bite the other delegates.
3.All psionic, magical, etc. abilities were suppressed. Several heavily-magical nations cooperated to mage this happen.
4.FTL travel was inhibited in proximity to Mars.

On 2: It might be possible to scan the contents of an item to make sure that no weapons get through, but you can't be perfect. For example, someone could come up with a biological gun, all the scans would pick up is a pass of bone, meat, and gasses that could be the person's lunch - and there's no counting for alien tastes.

Or, on the case of my nation - a lot of our civilian technology (computers, life monitoring systems to make sure an environment isn't hostile or to detect poisons) use heavy electron charged plasma as a power source. Someone who knew what they were doing could modify a microfusion bomb to scan as nothing more than a Sertian power source with a magnetic containment system, and then you get quite a nice boom.

On 3: What happens if the people are psychic jellyfish that can only communicate through telepathy, or if they're globs that likewise can only interact with their environment by telekinesis or telepathy? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but it'll make it hostile to some races which might make them see the whole idea as racist/speciest, and could perhaps anger them to become terrorists.

On 4: Matter-Negative matter shells! Seriously though, I have a hard time seeing an FTLi barrier extending beyond a few light seconds at most, not counting the fact that someone would want to limit the field of the FTLi so it doesn't take a full day's travel to make those last few kilo-kilometers for the emergency council meeting. Because of that, anyone with a powerful laser or fast enough slug thrower can pop in outside of the FTLi barrier and commence long range bombardments. Planetary movement is pretty easy to plot after all. ^_^

Personally, I think the concept of an NS FT version of Babylon 5 would be a fun idea to explore. I understand the problem with dealing with terrorism and simple OOC trolls trying to crash the party, but why even bother with the latter. If someone is just trying to grief the delegates, just ignore them.

If someone is making an actual IC effort to attack the Assembly building/s, let em try it. It provides even more RP opportunity.

As to defenses... Nothing is impregnable unless you have god-tech.

Don't forget time travel, go back int time to way before the place is even conceived to the exact location that the main debating chamber, jump forward, tadaa, big explosion if you so wish.

OCC: sounds cool idea, ill sing up if you guys get it off the floor

Don't forget time travel, go back int time to way before the place is even conceived to the exact location that the main debating chamber, jump forward, tadaa, big explosion if you so wish.



Using time travel to modify NS events is generally considered a form of godmod. For obvious reasons.

I am saying that a terrorist attack would not work against Vascilians in FT because we tend to run keep security very high,

...


Auman is the only FT player I am aware of who has not only had a major terrorist attack, but has had his nation destroyed and his people scattered to the nine vectors by one.

Thread (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=180)

I would suggest that this actually makes your alliance's record in dealing with terrorists the single worst in the universe.

When you consider that the closest thing to an attack that ever happened to the Duma was a cripple torching himself on the sidewalk in front of the building
Err. Being as I've at times run DumaSec, this is not true. For a start, we had repeated attempts by delegates to murder each other, prevented only by teleporting bullets out of the air in flight.

I can think of several ways to destroy the Duma (which, for obvious reasons, I shan't be telling, free tips to cause me hassle would be bad ideas) it's certainly possible. Of course, not by the means Eluneyasa has suggested but still, his point is reasonable enough.

What does Auman's being destroyed by the civilization-eating moss (one magically immune to the Uploaded Minds' counter-nanowank, as well) have to do with anythinbg? Obviously Auman had since improved their practices.

What does Auman's being destroyed by the civilization-eating moss (one magically immune to the Uploaded Minds' counter-nanowank, as well) have to do with anythinbg? Obviously Auman had since improved their practices.

Err? I don't see any evidence of such. I see:

<Bryn> Put it in Auman. Vascillians are immune to terrorism.

Which isn't historically true, at all.

P.S. That's not to say Eluneyasa is completely right. It can work just fine while being vulnerable to terrorism, in theory at least. The Duma/MPA works just fine, and as I've said, that can be blown up.

P.S. That's not to say Eluneyasa is completely right. It can work just fine while being vulnerable to terrorism, in theory at least. The Duma/MPA works just fine, and as I've said, that can be blown up.

I've stated twice on this thread that I'd like to RP this, including seeing the fun of a terrorist trying to get past the security features, and twice more offered a suggestion about an alternative way of doing it that makes it even more resistant to terrorism.

Mostly, I've just been trying to point out that the idea of it being truly impossible to use terrorism against is possible only through use of godmode, either through outright using it or extreme techwank. So far, all I've gotten is mounds of evidence in favor of that stance.

Ctan is partially right. Something doesn't need to be 100% impregnable to work. Eluneyasa, just because something can be attacked doesn't mean it would be, for the reasons Bryn have stated, and you have taken so many painstaking measures to ignore. As for terrorism, there's always a possibility, yes, but seeing as most terrorist attacks happen only through a lapse in already set up security, all you need is someone as paranoid as Bryn or Auman to host a place and you won't have those gaps. But again, even if there are other security holes, you have the diplomatic security, as well - namely, everyone there will be mighty pissed off, and plenty present won't have the same respect for life that those in real life at least claim to have. For instance, if 9/11 happened in, say, Auman, Bryn Shander, or Derscon, Afghanistan simply would not exist by the end of the year, the sand having been turned to glass, the mountains leveled, and the entire population exteriminated.

And Ctan, the Auman wankmoss argument is invalid - not only was it not terrorism, it was OOCly crafted as to be impossible to completely eliminate until after Vascilia was removed from Mars. It was nothing more than an IC cover for OOC removal. The rest of your points are fine, though.

Edit: 6,000th post! w00t!

And Ctan, the Auman wankmoss argument is invalid - not only was it not terrorism,
Err. I happen to know who's responsible for that in full OOC detail: it most certainly was a terrorist group, not a state.

And, hopefully, with that, </thread hijack> people can get back to discussing the idea of an intergalactic assembly.

Ctan is partially right. Something doesn't need to be 100% impregnable to work. Eluneyasa, just because something can be attacked doesn't mean it would be, for the reasons Bryn have stated, and you have taken so many painstaking measures to ignore. As for terrorism, there's always a possibility, yes, but seeing as most terrorist attacks happen only through a lapse in already set up security, all you need is someone as paranoid as Bryn or Auman to host a place and you won't have those gaps. But again, even if there are other security holes, you have the diplomatic security, as well - namely, everyone there will be mighty pissed off, and plenty present won't have the same respect for life that those in real life at least claim to have. For instance, if 9/11 happened in, say, Auman, Bryn Shander, or Derscon, Afghanistan simply would not exist by the end of the year, the sand having been turned to glass, the mountains leveled, and the entire population exteriminated.

What Bryn mostly stated was, "It won't happen because my defenses are just that good." That, of course, is utter techwank BS. In fact, I can prove it with an actual quote from one of his posts:

I am saying that a terrorist attack would not work against Vascilians in FT because we tend to run keep security very high, especially where foreigners are concerned, and will shoot first without hesitation if someone tries something stupid.

An outright statement that it wouldn't work because his security is just that high. And when I respond saying that it couldn't possibly be and that some defenses could be bypassed, he responds with this:

Now you're just being stupid and should stop talking.

It's not that I've been ignoring his attempts at it, it's that every time I've outright challenged them or worked up ways around security, he's resulted to comments that don't actually counter my point or comments that are pretty much outright trolling. Please, go throughout this entire thread and find a comment by Bryn that actually has a real point in countering my argument.

Now, do you have any concrete proof that they can produce a security system without holes for a neutral meeting place that is pretty much unassailable? Oh, and don't mention that it be entirely electronic... I've already suggested that twice.

And, finally, I've covered the issue of a place to retaliate against already. You provided nothing I haven't already countered.

What does Auman's being destroyed by the civilization-eating moss (one magically immune to the Uploaded Minds' counter-nanowank, as well) have to do with anythinbg? Obviously Auman had since improved their practices.
Uploaded Minds' counter-nanowank consisted of banging her head against the keyboard to create strings of completely unpronounceable and, above all, meaningless garbage. That in and of itself is a magical solution and thus promptly neglected as a reasonable option.

Given how the solution to the problem was, essentially, "use napalm on it," I don't see that as being too terribly unfair.

I don't know a particularly violent computer virus/worm that can somehow operate on the frequencies you would be using could work on one or two delegates before being discovered or erased leading to all kinds of fun, its really hard to account for all possibilities and the one you don't could lead to all kinds of death and destruction.(heck it doesn't even need to be violent just have it mess up translations every once and awhile and viole diplomatic incident that leads to war or cuts in commutations or whatever)
What if you're facing a nation that just doesn't plain care about civilian casualties in taking out terrorists? Say if the United States actually used a couple of nukes to wipe out Afghanistan, never mind the international condemnation. Or taking a leaf out of the Imperium of Man, blowing up a planet for the very reason it harbored a terrorist group.

That's the kind of mindset you're gonna deal with considering the likes of Chronosia, Bryn Shander, and others. A terrorist would have to be willing to quite literally take planetary destruction as a sacrifice for blowing shit up.

That's the kind of mindset you're gonna deal with considering the likes of Chronosia

Of course, it shouldn't be forgotten Chaos does not stand for organizations seeking galactic peace and conciliation between aliens. And an IoM esque nation would simply demand the annexation of such assembly into their domain and for all Xenos to be terminated.

Suffer not the terrorist to live, et cetera...

And Ctan, the Auman wankmoss argument is invalid - not only was it not terrorism,
05 October 2006: Set up (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502015) for a terrorist event.

02 November 2006: Target changed (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11893240&postcount=8).

03 November 2006: Incident begins (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=32).

About 4 hours later: Summary links (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=40) of the set-up posted.

it was OOCly crafted as to be impossible to completely eliminate until after Vascilia was removed from Mars.
Patently false, as the timeline shows:

Some nuking occurs.

04 November 2006: First hint (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=73) that the answer is heat [see numbered list] and rather clear emphasis that nukes and explosions are not a viable solution. This was, of course, intentional but internally consistent.

Three hours later: More (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=73) heat-based description.

One hour after that: The aforementioned counter-nanowank (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=79) solution. Ineffective due to population density; had it been immediately employed, it would have probably worked.

Ten hours after that: Someone finally attempts (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=95) a heat-based solution ("hit it with napalm"). I wasn't thinking napalm specifically but as I had always been thinking "if energy in is greater than energy out, heat increases" it fit the very simple principle being described.

05 November 2006: Despite nuking having already been described as only making the problem worse, someone goes gangbusters (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=106) with nukes.

Six hours later: Explicit emphasis (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=109) on "heat works, nukes don't." There's even a little thermodynamic equation. If energy in > energy out, then temperature increases.

Six hours after that: Explicit confirmation (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=118) that the thermal solutions work.

Four hours after that: Auman uses dynamite and nukes (after "explosions bad" repeated time and time again) and then gives up. (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=126)

10 November 2006: Unconventional terrorism (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=174) posted. Shame no one ran with it.

It was nothing more than an IC cover for OOC removal.
Believe what you will, but it's not my problem your side (save you) paid practically no attention whatsoever to the hints, continuously tried and re-tried what didn't just "not work" but what actually made the situation worse, and were overall not clever enough at the time to even bother working out the relatively simple puzzle that quite a few non-scientific people figured out. It's also not my problem if goody-two-shoes me has more successfully stirred up trouble that got everyone involved than the big bad gruff Vascillians have ever managed, and probably ever will manage, to do.

Sorry for beatin' y'all at your own shtick.

</truth>
</hijack>

What if you're facing a nation that just doesn't plain care about civilian casualties in taking out terrorists? Say if the United States actually used a couple of nukes to wipe out Afghanistan, never mind the international condemnation. Or taking a leaf out of the Imperium of Man, blowing up a planet for the very reason it harbored a terrorist group.

That's the kind of mindset you're gonna deal with considering the likes of Chronosia, Bryn Shander, and others. A terrorist would have to be willing to quite literally take planetary destruction as a sacrifice for blowing shit up.

Well what if Afghanistan had nukes too? As most FT nations are spread throughout multiple plantery systems, wiping out one simple planet won't end the threat and if the civilization doesn't care about their own causalities and instead focuses on killing as many of the enemy as possible then the "terrorists" win in a manner of fact and some groups may feel that it would be a fair trade for one/multiple civilization/planets to be destroyed for their goals, deterrents don't work very well on madmen or the truly desperate...

deterrents don't work very well on madmen or the truly desperate...

Deterrents work excellently on madmen, actually. If you knowyou're not going to succeed and everything you're trying to protect will be destroyed, then you're pretty well not going to try.

Of course, it shouldn't be forgotten Chaos does not stand for organizations seeking galactic peace and conciliation between aliens. And an IoM esque nation would simply demand the annexation of such assembly into their domain and for all Xenos to be terminated.

Four letters:

E
S
U
S

Four letters:

E
S
U
S

One word:

Realpolitik

And Tzeentch approves of that

Uploaded Minds' counter-nanowank consisted of banging her head against the keyboard to create strings of completely unpronounceable and, above all, meaningless garbage. That in and of itself is a magical solution and thus promptly neglected as a reasonable option.

Uploaded Minds' counternanowank consisted, as far as I understand, of centrally-producing a variant on the original nanoparticles, except with quickbronze as a foodsource. And with the Home of Many and several dozen warships as an output factory.

At least that's how I get it from the original post.

but it's not my problem your side (save you) paid practically no attention whatsoever to the hints, continuously tried and re-tried what didn't just "not work" but what actually made the situation worse, and

For the record, I did not at any time use thermonuclear weapons, or explosives on said moss. My methods of trying to fix it consisted of relocating several masses of moss into deep space and calling on Uploaded Minds for help on the rationale that a civilization based on nanowank will be best on fixing it.

One word:

Realpolitik



Which is exactly why such an assembly may work.

Deterrents work excellently on madmen, actually. If you knowyou're not going to succeed and everything you're trying to protect will be destroyed, then you're pretty well not going to try.

That is why I added the rider about being truly desperate, if you have nothing else to lose why not go that extra step? Anyway this is Nationstates you can go way past the point were'd you'd be despoted for being crazy and/or not caring about how many people are killed all the time specially in FT with little to no long term side effects to boot...

That is why I added the rider about being truly desperate, if you have nothing else to lose why not go that extra step? Anyway this is Nationstates you can go way past the point were'd you'd be despoted for being crazy and/or not caring about how many people are killed all the time specially in FT with little to no long term side effects to boot...

No one wanting to RP with you because you're playing a crazy psychopath all the time strikes me as a pretty big deterant.

Four letters:

E
S
U
S

Err, yeah. That's a military alliance (and one made up of about fifty percent "bad guys" when he joined - C.Facehug and his super-nazis in spAAAAce for example) which is another thing entirely. Chaos forces are quite happy to side with others when it suits them. Not really the same thing at all.

Conversely, there's nothing compelling anyone to join or pay the slightest attention to this IC. A discussion forum and a military alliance are two different things.

No one wanting to RP with you because you're playing a crazy psychopath all the time strikes me as a pretty big deterant.

More than enough crazy people have pulled it off without any shortage of RP partners down the years.

I think some thing like this should be less regulation more political/diplomatic/intrigue rp would also give a chance for the older generation to help teach the newbies. And for the record ESUS is you know.. inactive.. its more of an ooc LULZ club than an alliance now.

Why not create an equivalent of the WA for FT nations? If so, I would like some ideas on how it should work. Not much here to go off of, but that's because I need ideas.

If you're looking for diplomacy, intrigue, and more to a story than who has the biggest e-peen, you're looking in the wrong forum. ;) As I'm sure by the many answers to that effect that you've now seen. Not that there's no shooting or warring elsewhere, but II seems to have more than its fair share of 'I'm bigger than you, so I get to do what I want, end statement' - which can be a bit problematic for folks wanting to do a bit more than that with their nation, or get out there and do a bit more while younger without getting curb stomped to the point of not wanting to play at all.

Indeed it has, glad to be of assistance. ^_^

Closest thing that would possibly work would be a "neutral ground" enforced by a bunch of members where those who agree to said neutral ground could come together to talk.

You'd have the problem of some species ICly trolling the delegates, and those who try to disrupt proceedings by attacking said neutral ground, requiring guard fleets, but given how unlikely peace is anyway...


I agree that neutral ground is what is needed. If there is an actual desire for PEACE then isn't it worth standing up for? Yes there are those who just like to cause trouble but in story writing ( Unlike when dealing with RL events ) that only makes for a better story does it not?

And for the record ESUS is you know.. inactive.. its more of an ooc LULZ club than an alliance now.
Try starting something. I dare ya. :P

Err, yeah. That's a military alliance (and one made up of about fifty percent "bad guys" when he joined - C.Facehug and his super-nazis in spAAAAce for example) which is another thing entirely. Chaos forces are quite happy to side with others when it suits them. Not really the same thing at all.
More of an economic alliance, really. The military part is mostly just tacked on there as an afterthought. And I take great offense at the "bad guy" part. Have at you.

I believe a Galactic Assembly could and will be successful. I am willing to host such an organization. And if you're really enough of a piece of shit to bomb a diplomatic institution, then God have mercy on you man. Because the retaliation from member states would more than likely be overwhelming and gruesome.

If you're looking for diplomacy, intrigue, and more to a story than who has the biggest e-peen, you're looking in the wrong forum. ;) As I'm sure by the many answers to that effect that you've now seen. Not that there's no shooting or warring elsewhere, but II seems to have more than its fair share of 'I'm bigger than you, so I get to do what I want, end statement' - which can be a bit problematic for folks wanting to do a bit more than that with their nation, or get out there and do a bit more while younger without getting curb stomped to the point of not wanting to play at all.

If you are looking for interesting action-packed stories, ancient conspiracies, wardrama, the impact of warfare into individual characters, submarine movie drama and reasonable tactics rather than "boring" Habbo Hotel-grade RPs, RPs that look like Dating Sims, generic Underworld vampire Gary Stus, veiled fanfics and sports roleplaying where you'll find legions of uber-powerful and unbeatable Mary Sues instead of legions of Wanked NS Militaries with n00ks and "POST LOSSES" and where supposed "experienced" roleplayers will post four-line long replies with excess of fluff and label everything they created as a CLOSED RP thread, you're looking at the right forum.

Yes... stereotyping forums in NS is just like that. Let's leave at that because there have been more than enough NS vs. II already.

Also, whenever someone claims that war, strategy, tactics, reasonable operational designs of tanks/etc, diplomacy, intrigue and character development are mutually exclusive in a RP, a mudkip dies. I've being implementing all of them in two RPs/story hybrids* of mine, and it is not impossible at all as it seems to be implied sometimes.

*The sort of thread that does not necessarily require the participation of other NSes for the plot to advance, but which would be more fun with people joining.


And for the record ESUS is you know.. inactive.. its more of an ooc LULZ club than an alliance now.

For our LULZ the boundaries between OOC and IC are transcendent. And to achieve LULZ, is to embrace enlightenment.

If you are looking for interesting action-packed stories, ancient conspiracies, wardrama, the impact of warfare into individual characters, submarine movie drama and reasonable tactics rather than "boring" Habbo Hotel-grade RPs, RPs that look like Dating Sims, generic Underworld vampire Gary Stus, veiled fanfics and sports roleplaying where you'll find legions of uber-powerful and unbeatable Mary Sues instead of legions of Wanked NS Militaries with n00ks and "POST LOSSES" and where supposed "experienced" roleplayers will post four-line long replies with excess of fluff and label everything they created as a CLOSED RP thread, you're looking at the right forum.

Yes... stereotyping forums in NS is just like that. Let's leave at that because there have been more than enough NS vs. II already.

Also, whenever someone claims that war, strategy, tactics, reasonable operational designs of tanks/etc, diplomacy, intrigue and character development are mutually exclusive in a RP, a mudkip dies. I've being implementing all of them in two RPs/story hybrids* of mine, and it is not impossible at all as it seems to be implied sometimes.

*The sort of thread that does not necessarily require the participation of other NSes for the plot to advance, but which would be more fun with people joining.




For our LULZ the boundaries between OOC and IC are transcendent. And to achieve LULZ, is to embrace enlightenment.


I like you, man.

But seriously now, Auman is a nation rife with terrorist threats. It's the number one means of regime change in the nations history. However, these domestic terror attacks only happen when I write them, so the Galactic Assembly getting taken out by a gang of Turks is as likely as I feel it to be, which isn't very likely. The threat of foreign attacks on the GA, though, makes it more interesting in my opinion. What's the point of doing something if it's not at least a little bit dangerous?

I like you, man.

But seriously now, Auman is a nation rife with terrorist threats. It's the number one means of regime change in the nations history. However, these domestic terror attacks only happen when I write them, so the Galactic Assembly getting taken out by a gang of Turks is as likely as I feel it to be, which isn't very likely. The threat of foreign attacks on the GA, though, makes it more interesting in my opinion. What's the point of doing something if it's not at least a little bit dangerous?

Because, in my experience, most people do not want their areas where they can try to lord their diplomatic superiority over others and generally act like children fighting over a favored toy suddenly blown up.

Of course, to me, that's just fun. And a nice way to dispose of characters when I get bored with them.

But seriously now, Auman is a nation rife with terrorist threats. It's the number one means of regime change in the nations history. However, these domestic terror attacks only happen when I write them, so the Galactic Assembly getting taken out by a gang of Turks is as likely as I feel it to be, which isn't very likely. The threat of foreign attacks on the GA, though, makes it more interesting in my opinion. What's the point of doing something if it's not at least a little bit dangerous?

Huh. I agree with Auman on something.

Now there's a rare event!

That is kinda what I am saying Auman. I am not saying it would work a lot, but a terrorist attack could happen, the one the nation did not expect since it needed all the factors to line into place and then is shocked when it happens. It'd be a good rp. However, stuff like this is hard to do since you can't do something a player doesn't want to his nation without his/her permission, else it's godmodding. So we have to be as fair as possible, but I do see your point on the terrorism defense thing.

Also, I'd be interested in joining this, since my nation has a whole diplomatic core and is dedicated to peace, but my two questions are thus:

What kind of rps would we have with this organization and how would it affect our nations? Would it be like the UN when we have to follow resolutions and such?

And If we want to withdraw, how hard or easy will that be?

Solar Communes, I don't often agree with you, but today, you're my hero.

Because, in my experience, most people do not want their areas where they can try to lord their diplomatic superiority over others and generally act like children fighting over a favored toy suddenly blown up.

Of course, to me, that's just fun. And a nice way to dispose of characters when I get bored with them.

That must have been one hell of a dance off...

I believe a Galactic Assembly could and will be successful. I am willing to host such an organization. And if you're really enough of a piece of shit to bomb a diplomatic institution, then God have mercy on you man. Because the retaliation from member states would more than likely be overwhelming and gruesome.


Bob charters a yacht under a false name, pays in cash, surrounds the warp core with lasing rods, and sends it off into orbit via entanglement-teleoperated avatar set up to mimic someone(whose corpse is currently rotting in a hotel room behind a Do Not Disturb sign on Vacation Planet X) with the right clearance/etc. to fly their new yacht into said orbit.

Warp core blows, explosion pumps lasing rods, GAHQ = GA Memorial Crater. Bob, meanwhile, dies of food poisoning later that day, on the other side of the galaxy.

Now, against whom do you retaliate?


Hell, with that kind of threat, imagine the opportunities that lay in successfully framing your enemies for even a failed attack?


I agree that the risk makes it more interesting, but you really shouldn't delude yourself into thinking you'll always be able to ICly figure out who was responsible. A fact that can be exploited to use your reactionary over-zealousness to the benefit of others.

To Telros, the Galactic Assembly would be very easy to leave. You just say "I'm done" and you're done.

With Kanuckistan,

Since it would be hosted in my nation... I believe the terrorist threat is up to me to deal with. You would lose expendable diplomats. Your nations would naturally be enraged and want to deal with said terrorists. But in the end, the real damage is done to my nation and my reputation... Both things I'm willing to deal with in the name of awesome roleplay.

The terrorism option doesn't bother me, as long as the other player realizes that I don't want a world ending catastrophe because I'm being a good host. I have nothing against car bombs or any other thing, but that's something to be dealt with when it happens.

A terrorist attack can happen on a mobile battle fortress, it can happen on a planet and it can happen god damn anywhere, man. That's the price to pay for freedom. Freedom ain't free, bro.

Freedom ain't free. :\

In the end, if we want to carry this Space UN out in Auman, the ultimate and most costly tragedies happen on my single world and I'll be the one paying that price. And I'm willing to go for that, because it'll be totally awesome in a roleplay sense.

In the end, if we want to carry this Space UN out in Auman, the ultimate and most costly tragedies happen on my single world and I'll be the one paying that price. And I'm willing to go for that, because it'll be totally awesome in a roleplay sense.

Yay! Sounds good ^^

Oh, and I was informed by someone over MSN that my question earlier about who would want this kind of potential scenario came across as rhetorical or sarcastic. Oops.

I did end up creating something along this vein back in '07. Called it the Galactic Concilium. Not much ended up happening with it. If you're going to make something like this, be sure you have the playerpower to keep it reasonably active.

That being said, the Fifth Realm would probably send a delegate.

With Kanuckistan,


The point wasn't that you can be attacked(tho I am fond of the idea of detonating antimatter tankers in orbit - flash-fried hemisphere :D ), but with identifying the party responsible. If done right, you can not only remain unknown, but can point the finger at anyone you want - at which point "massive retaliation" becomes, "trick this third party into going to war against my enemy."


Ya know, some times I'm really tempted to start a spymaster nation or faction or whatnot, but I don't think many players would appreciate it. :D

THe problem with this concept is one not previously identified.

Namely, a galactic UN roleplay would only keep people interested if they had something to angle for - like the Martian Duma. Most RP on Mars operated because Mars had a limited amount of land (obviously) and people kept angling around each other for advantages, alliances, strategic positions etc.

If you are looking for interesting action-packed stories (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=274789&highlight=extrasolar), ancient conspiracies (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=275137&highlight=archaeological+slaglands), wardrama (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=5246016&postcount=57), the impact of warfare (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=315645) into individual characters (http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=282167), submarine movie drama and reasonable tactics rather than "boring" Habbo Hotel-grade RPs (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=574333), RPs that look like Dating Sims (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=570493&highlight=marry), generic Underworld vampire (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13821170&postcount=444) Gary Stus, veiled fanfics and sports roleplaying (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=588964&highlight=football) where you'll find legions of uber-powerful and unbeatable Mary Sues (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8560085&postcount=1) instead of legions of Wanked NS Militaries (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=348578&highlight=Kazansky) with n00ks and "POST LOSSES" (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14711099&postcount=15) and where supposed "experienced" roleplayers will post four-line long replies with excess of fluff and label everything they created as a CLOSED RP thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=512262&highlight=Kazansky), you're looking at the right forum.


Wow, considering there's plenty of that in BOTH forums as well ... yep. I said 'more than its fair share', which I doubt can be argued - especially, as I was highlighting earlier, the responses from II regulars here that pretty much propped up that argument.

Point is, if you want LESS a chance of getting mowed down by the local 'We Control Everything' factions, yeah - NS is a quieter place to start things up.

Face it - we've got players who play quite comfortably in both forums. We've got good writers in both - and poor ones. And both forums have their share of ridiculousness. Things have gelled the way they have for reasons, and that isn't to say any one is better than the other - simply different. Which was, as you seem to have missed, the point.

In any case, it seems Allanea is bound and determined to stir things up (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14718427&postcount=87) in II with this sort of discussion (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14719989&postcount=91), then RP things out (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=590895) over in NS to see if he can get someone to bite ... whatever. It continues to be mildly silly, all things considered.

Meh, I say. *shrugs* Have fun with it - which again, really ought to be the whole point in playing here in any particular forum at all.

So ... if you really want to get some sort of FT Council to Keep the Peace and such going - go for it. And do it wherever you think you'll have the most fun RP'ing it with the most active/willing participants - and don't forget, the 'bad guys' to go up against, because its no fun sitting around being all diplomatic with no one to diplowank against, let alone, fight when it comes to it.

Whom do I need to 'get to bite'? It's a closed thread, just for me and Auman.

Point is, if you want LESS a chance of getting mowed down by the local 'We Control Everything' factions, yeah - NS is a quieter place to start things up.

There is a cure for this. It's called the ignore cannon. Just ignore idiots who want to invade you at random.

On the other hand, if your introduction thread is a Nation X Genocides Y threat or anything similar designed to provoke an IC uproar, do not be surprised if you get invaded.

Boris and I are the same player, now? When did this happen?

Meh, I say. *shrugs* Have fun with it - which again, really ought to be the whole point in playing here in any particular forum at all.

I agree. And you can't seem to have any fun in II beyond OOCly trolling its users, so why don't you just go on back to NS and stop bothering the rest of us?

I'm sorry, Dread Lady Nathicana, but who are you and why are you posting in this thread if you're not actually going to contribute anything to it other than knocking it off the tracks? This is about a Galactic Forum, not the differences between NS and II.

kthx bai.

THe problem with this concept is one not previously identified.

Namely, a galactic UN roleplay would only keep people interested if they had something to angle for - like the Martian Duma. Most RP on Mars operated because Mars had a limited amount of land (obviously) and people kept angling around each other for advantages, alliances, strategic positions etc.

That's easily solved.

One of the things I've always wondered about is super-rare materials. Well, if one nation happened to discover some that were useful for all, then everyone has a continual stake in it... their diplomatic maneuverings would be to secure an active supply of the material and continue, or even increase, the share they get. A nation like Auman works perfectly for this... they're big enough most nations can't attack them, but you can still pull terrorist actions and try politics.

Then someone with molly fabbers gets their hands on it and scarcity goes down the drain.

;)

Then there's always the other way of making a Galactic UN work... You use it as a place to negotiate an end to conflicts, territorial issues, etc. And there's always a lot of those. Then there are the other sorts of things that can come up, like hull size limits, arms reduction campaigns and other peaceful initiatives that will likely not go well. Humanitarian missions, peace keeping operations, etc, etc.

If you can think of an issue that can be brought up it can be debated and voted upon. I would personally work to reduce the amount of planet killing weapons out there and in addition to that, write some international laws that can be enforced. Too many worlds have been wiped out in my career and even more generalized atrocities have been committed as well.

The galaxy is a fucked up place and I think that this organization is worth a shot. So, unless anyone else has any other topics to discuss in regards to this, I'm ready to write the thread.

Just one suggestion: Make sure people send serious diplomats.

Just one suggestion: Make sure people send serious diplomats.

Welcome to NationStates. You must be new here.

Welcome to NationStates. You must be new here.

I sent a drunk, a spoiled rich girl, a drug smuggler, an old man who really should be in retirement, and a person that changes sex every resolution to the WA.

I think I'm due for serious diplomats now :p

I sent a drunk, a spoiled rich girl, a drug smuggler, an old man who really should be in retirement, and a person that changes sex every resolution to the WA.

I think I'm due for serious diplomats now :p

So you're saying that you secretly want to be Allanea?

So you're saying that you secretly want to be Allanea?

I'm not sure Allanea should want to be Allanea. XD

First off - the existence of an IA building would be irrelevant. Nearly everyone has some sort of faster-than-light wanktastic comm system (even I do, for ease of RP), and meetings could take place in cyberspace with delegates safely on their home worlds.

Second - While it would ICly make sense, most (good) FT conflicts take place between two or more participants who are planning the thing out the whole way. The FT theatre is rife with things that can do whatever the puppeteer wants them to do (I'm looking at you, timeships) and people with powers too outlandish to mention. If two people in the FT universe want to fight, there is nothing any legislative body can do to stop them short of putting a fleet bigger than both of their's combined between the two and saying "NO!" Even then, there's a 50/50 chance one or more parties is going to start shooting anyway counting on "technological superiority" to win for them. And who the hell is going to put their own people, tech, and genital extension fleet on the line stopping two other nations from beating the everloving crap out of each other?

And if that wasn't enough, you have to keep in mind that you'll be dealing with cultures that will be so outlandish that they cannot realistically communicate with each other. I guarantee, right now, that someone will take offense to another delegate's breathing oxygen. You think racism is bad on Earth? Try adding in completely different species. That'll be fun.

It's a great concept, but I'm afraid it wouldn't logically work. That said, I'd love to see where something like this would go. I'd never join, but I'd watch.

First off - the existence of an IA building would be irrelevant. Nearly everyone has some sort of faster-than-light wanktastic comm system (even I do, for ease of RP), and meetings could take place in cyberspace with delegates safely on their home worlds.

Second - While it would ICly make sense, most (good) FT conflicts take place between two or more participants who are planning the thing out the whole way. The FT theatre is rife with things that can do whatever the puppeteer wants them to do (I'm looking at you, timeships) and people with powers too outlandish to mention. If two people in the FT universe want to fight, there is nothing any legislative body can do to stop them short of putting a fleet bigger than both of their's combined between the two and saying "NO!" Even then, there's a 50/50 chance one or more parties is going to start shooting anyway counting on "technological superiority" to win for them. And who the hell is going to put their own people, tech, and genital extension fleet on the line stopping two other nations from beating the everloving crap out of each other?

And if that wasn't enough, you have to keep in mind that you'll be dealing with cultures that will be so outlandish that they cannot realistically communicate with each other. I guarantee, right now, that someone will take offense to another delegate's breathing oxygen. You think racism is bad on Earth? Try adding in completely different species. That'll be fun.

It's a great concept, but I'm afraid it wouldn't logically work. That said, I'd love to see where something like this would go. I'd never join, but I'd watch.

There's no reason not to join something like this, especially if you're not paying the bills. Furthermore, the building in which the Galactic Assembly would be housed will not just be a simple place for people to meet face to face to talk. But also a cultural institution which would be host to art displays, musical concerts, etc.

Think of it as a place where all the galaxy can get together, talk politics, sign international law and experience the diverse cultures of the galaxy. Anyway, here's the link to the thread. It's just a party right now, but when more people get in Navarrone will give a speech outlining what the whole thing is about and if anyone else feels like having their diplomat, leader, etc, have a turn at the mic that is perfectly fine.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14727726#post14727726

No. I'm just saying I'd never join because my nation would balk at the idea. Associate with THOSE people, are you NUTS?

Oh you...

http://www.ushandball.org/handball_images/CollegeLogos/ou_logo_400x560.jpg

Good luck assembling a fleet that can defeat Bryn Shander, Auman, and their allies.

It has been done before. Yet you need to find PROPER, and BIG allies indeed.

For the rest, I don't label Vascilians as the most powerful or either stable conglomerate out there, although they are not the worse, anyway.

And regarding the initiative, if you can indeed pull this together, and manage to get a vote resolving some situation without everything going nuts with an invasion or a terrorist attack, then you are my hero.

Just one suggestion: Make sure people send serious diplomats.
*Usually sends diplomats that should be in high school at best*

>_>

<_<

What?

I hope some ideas might be adaptable to FT:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organizations_in_Deus_Ex#UNATCO

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Order_(conspiracy_theory)#Coup_d.27.C3.A9tat_and_martial_law

Of course, that would require an extremely influent and cunning cabal*, and lots of collaboration between the participants.

*Which by FT standards would make a gas giant turned into a spacecraft look mundane in comparison.

There's no reason not to join something like this


...sign international law...


This, pretty much.

I doubt the concept of "Didn't sign that law, so I'm not bound by it," would work very well.

This, pretty much.

I doubt the concept of "Didn't sign that law, so I'm not bound by it," would work very well.

Except that's the way national sovereignty works, so you don't have a choice in the matter.

This, pretty much.

I doubt the concept of "Didn't sign that law, so I'm not bound by it," would work very well.

Tell that to the Mekantans.

Or in a place without any laws.

05 October 2006: Set up (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=502015) for a terrorist event.

02 November 2006: Target changed (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=11893240&postcount=8).

03 November 2006: Incident begins (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=32).

About 4 hours later: Summary links (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=40) of the set-up posted.


Patently false, as the timeline shows:

Some nuking occurs.

04 November 2006: First hint (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=73) that the answer is heat [see numbered list] and rather clear emphasis that nukes and explosions are not a viable solution. This was, of course, intentional but internally consistent.

Three hours later: More (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=73) heat-based description.

One hour after that: The aforementioned counter-nanowank (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=79) solution. Ineffective due to population density; had it been immediately employed, it would have probably worked.

Ten hours after that: Someone finally attempts (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=95) a heat-based solution ("hit it with napalm"). I wasn't thinking napalm specifically but as I had always been thinking "if energy in is greater than energy out, heat increases" it fit the very simple principle being described.

05 November 2006: Despite nuking having already been described as only making the problem worse, someone goes gangbusters (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=106) with nukes.

Six hours later: Explicit emphasis (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=109) on "heat works, nukes don't." There's even a little thermodynamic equation. If energy in > energy out, then temperature increases.

Six hours after that: Explicit confirmation (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=118) that the thermal solutions work.

Four hours after that: Auman uses dynamite and nukes (after "explosions bad" repeated time and time again) and then gives up. (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=126)

10 November 2006: Unconventional terrorism (http://z4.invisionfree.com/The_Planet_Mars/index.php?showtopic=1053&st=174) posted. Shame no one ran with it.


Believe what you will, but it's not my problem your side (save you) paid practically no attention whatsoever to the hints, continuously tried and re-tried what didn't just "not work" but what actually made the situation worse, and were overall not clever enough at the time to even bother working out the relatively simple puzzle that quite a few non-scientific people figured out. It's also not my problem if goody-two-shoes me has more successfully stirred up trouble that got everyone involved than the big bad gruff Vascillians have ever managed, and probably ever will manage, to do.

Sorry for beatin' y'all at your own shtick.

</truth>
</hijack>

I actually just got around to reading this and, as I recall, you and your attack were ignored as this was an entirely unsolicited nation ending event, which is counter to all roleplay etiquette that I've ever encountered on these forums.

But what do I know.

Auman, check your Telegrams.