NationStates Jolt Archive

This is the OOC thread for the Great War WWII-tech thread found here: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=1230

This is where you should ask to join, NOT ON THE IC THREAD

mind if i join in with USA?

Sure. But wait a bit, cause there's a certain point where I want to get to before outside intervention

Will do

PA, how about a Ludolf sub sinks one of your ships Lusitania-style, and you enter the war?

Ok, except say i make it a CL instead, no, i'll put it as a Liberty Class Transport, unless you wanna RP it than i'll RP my Declaration of War

I can RP the sinking

Yea, i say its a ship with your country but theres a number of my citizens onboard

I just posted the sinking

Ok, i'll post the Declaration of War in a bit, i'll start off in the same State as the USA in December 1941, good gear, but nearly enough troops, planes, ships, etc. etc.

Telvira, your first post said Ludolf, but i will edit

Hmm..could I join as a band of pirates from the then Islamic dictatorship of Zunola, who escaped their country and are now trying to make a life out of stealing merchant ships?

lol, just wanna make a statement here, most of the Merchant Ships here will be guarded by Destroyers, Destroyer Escorts, Light Cruisers, Heavy Cruisers, Some by Battleships, and Many by Carriers, would be kinda hard, but not saying it isnt possible

Most. Most of the vessels. It would be interesting, if not ultra-realistic. And aircraft carriers guarding a merchant vessel?

Or, the then Islamic Republic of Zunola could get involved quite violently, if I must.

Well, not A Merchie but more along the lines of a Convoy of Merchies, there will be the loners thay set off but in my case a lot of them will be in well guarded Merchant Convoys

is it possible for people to still get in?, I'd love to be a Neutral power that could swing the war one way or another if I get involved besides I get to use P-40's, P-51s, and battleships.

Well, not A Merchie but more along the lines of a Convoy of Merchies, there will be the loners thay set off but in my case a lot of them will be in well guarded Merchant Convoys

Ah. Blonde moment.

Anyway, the state could get involved, and I could incorporate the resulting shit into national history.

Ah. Blonde moment.

Anyway, the state could get involved, and I could incorporate the resulting shit into national history.


Dont worry we all have them

Most. Most of the vessels. It would be interesting, if not ultra-realistic. And aircraft carriers guarding a merchant vessel?

Or, the then Islamic Republic of Zunola could get involved quite violently, if I must.

Escort carriers were used all the time in WWII to escort convoys, they'd have air wings ready for anti-ship warfare and head out

Well in 1941(which i believe is the year this starts in) They didnt exist yet

is it possible for people to still get in?, I'd love to be a Neutral power that could swing the war one way or another if I get involved besides I get to use P-40's, P-51s, and battleships.

Still possible. Neutral power that could swing the balance (a la Turkey) sounds good to me

for the record, the country name is Ludolf. Luden is the adjective (ie Luden forces from the country of Ludolf) like German things are from Germany, Luden things are from Ludolf. Just wanted to clear that up

Indeed, or Spain

Ok Sorry, misunderstanding on my part

Still possible. Neutral power that could swing the balance (a la Turkey) sounds good to me

alright I'll start thinking up a opening post for my self, and then I see what both sides offer to get me in the war for them, Flag of my naval fleet though will be a North Carolina class battleship

Also question by tech up to 1943 does that include designs planned but were scrapped? by that I mean like ship designs scrapped under the Washington and London naval treaties, and also ships which began construction (like the British Lion class, American Montana class) but were canceled early build to switch production to something else

Also, would vessels like the Midway class carrier, which was concieved in 1940, be availiable ,even though the first was commissioned in 1945

Same thing with the Brit Vanguard, also concieved in 1940 but not commissioned till 1946?

Best to look at the launch dates for the ships HMS Vanguard was launched 30 November 1944, many ships were sent into combat and usually didn't get commissioned officially for awhile while they were off fighting

Yea i went by Commisioning Date,which was November 7th, 1946 for the Vanguard if i am not mistaken

Correct, but I wonder should we used the launched date or the laid down date as a reference? I mean if it's laid down then its officially real in a sense, any way carrier wise we got options we have at least 4 or 5 escort carriers from the Americans, USS midway was laid down in 43 but not complete and launched till after the war ended, the we have Lexington, Yorktown and Essex classes for fleet carriers. Japanese tech would be interesting I think the I-400 was laid down in Jan 43, sub aircraft carrier might be interesting. Heck Germans had a couple carrier designs too, two of them were almost complete as well.

Graf Spee was around 80% done i believe, than they scrapped the program and made it into a fast troop transport, the way the japs did with their smaller carriers when they started to run out of Planes

yeah Japanese were pro's with carriers, the heavy cruiser Mogami, and the battleship Ise were converted into carrier hybrids, heck the Japanese built the Shinano the biggest carrier until the modern super carriers. Only reason Shinano died so fast was due to a construction flaw, also German carriers got screwed by the navy and air force bickering over the planes to use. Wonder if Telvira will use plan Z for the ludolf navy?

You know I'm in, Tel.

OK. First off, on the issue of weapons, anything from WWII is fine. I'm using a mix of early and late war weapons, but nothing experimental, such as jets, guided missiles, etc. Any specific questions, just ask

Torturous Chambers, welcome. Any idea what side you're gonna be on?

Can I join in as supporting Ludolf? And is all this going to be included in the particpants' national history as if it actually happened?

Yes, you can join Ludolf, and it can be if you want

Interested in joining, either as Canada or Australia/New Zealand...not sure yet.

Telvira, so a Montana is ok than?

Telvira, so a Montana is ok than?

Montona class BB? man your thinking to small, look up the Rhode Island class BB(1923 design), tis bigger and more firepower then anything else. Was never built though because of the naval treaties, thing was armed with five triple barrel 18" turrets. Hard to find the schematics for it though, I'm trying to at the moment

Montana's ok for me, more firepower than i could ever use with 5 of those things lol, or was it 4?

Didnt Find any Evidence of a Rhode Island class, but did find tha tthe closest would be the 1920 South Dakota Class


Type: Battleship
Displacement: 43,200 tons
Length: 684 ft (208 m)
Beam: 105 ft (32 m)
Draft: 33 ft (10 m)
Speed: 23 knots (43 km/h)
Armament: 12 × 16 inch/50 caliber guns (4×3)
16 × 6 inch/47 caliber guns
8 × 3 inch/50 caliber guns
2 × 21 inch torpedo tubes

there were four planned Montana's, every nation had a super BB project going

US: Montana
UK: Lion
JP: Super Yamato
KM: H class

The H class of BB's went through many changes as the war went on and evolved into the H44 in 1944, it was part of plan Z to rebuild the german navy but of course it got abandoned for the most part even though some of the ship designs were good. Japanese Super Yamato class would of been the first ship to use 20.1" guns.


EDIT: yeah the original Sodak, pretty strong sounding ship, as for the Rhode Island, I saw it once on a forum but couldn't find it

Yea, Rhode Island Class Never existed, BB-17 was the only USS Rhode Island BB designed or built, i think whoever it was either made it up or Renamed the 1920 South Dakota class

heh your probably right considering I cant find any thing

No US BB has ever been designed with guns larger than 16inchs

Interested in joining, either as Canada or Australia/New Zealand...not sure yet.

We're not using actual countries. I was just drawing comparisons

Yea, im still USPA but i am taking on the role as USA With all the same land

so it would seem, any way I wonder which way in this war I should go

Lol, Currently Telvira is holding them at the James River, and my first Division to land ,the 17th Airborne, has just landed at Wesport, with a Armored and Infrantry Division 4-5 weeks behind it

The question now is, will you be able to hold for said 4.5ish weeks for reinforcements to arrive maybe during that time things turn grim on the front and you turn to me perhaps?

Oh, things are going to get very grim, and I know, cause I planned it all out...

Right now im struggling to get some more AT Guns into the Theater, most of my Armies force of 90mm Guns

Why not call in some a air strike, have some planes use some 75lb rockets on enemy amour coming in on you?

I Got 1 Carrier with 80 planes total, not very usefull at the moment, plus both Telvira and i are short on Large Calibar AT Guns, which can be a tad bit more accurate and reload faster than Rockets

I've got 57mm guns, which are good against Panzer IVs. But God help me when I decide Ludolf is gonna start using Panthers...

i got 2,000 of my countries 2,300 90mms coming in by Glider and C-47, should be there in, 8 NS Hours i guess

Hope ya got trucks to get them to the Front, also, are you using RL City names?

The cities in Telvira are a combination of RL and made up names

Ok, because i doubt that if Ludolf was based on WW2 Germany it could make it halfway up the west Coast of Britain to the RL Southport

Nope. I'm trying to get a map up, but it'll take time. Paint crashes my computer

Nope. I'm trying to get a map up, but it'll take time. Paint crashes my computer

I would think that if you TG'd Belkaland he'd make a map for you. I don't know if he would or not you'd have to ask him.

Yea, until you do get a map up when you refer to a city could you state its RL Counterpart?

well I just set up my development for the next few months, spring 42 ill have the P51 role out, not to mention ill have carriers and such being built/completed since im assuming we are starting to pull out of depression just like in WWII, I recovered via arms manufacturing, which in turn allowed my to stay neutral

Yea currently, my Next Fleet heading over, is engaged in a skirmish with Luden subs

well wont take to long if you have a good destroyer screen to find them, you look were the torps came from and work from there, any way I'm thinking maybe public opnion wont let me join the war yet but lets say I secretly sell military equipment to Telvira?

Sounds good to me, the DDs and DEs from that fleet are from the Pacific, and one of the Primary Wargames done in the Pacific Fleet every year is that 30 Subs go around as quietly as possible, most of those Vessels have taken part and in each one most of the subs were found so shouldnt be to hard

Within a set area of course, but i doubt Ludens sub is gonna sit still

true enough, but a well set up destroyer screen can protect capital ships from air and under sea attack by having the ships placed to block possible attack routes

the 8 foot seas is the only problem to the Vessels, because their not used to the Sea Conditions

ah true enough sea conditions can screw you over in a way if your crew is not prepared for it

Yea, they'll get used to it, but when who knows

Every one knows how naval armor works right? Deck, Anti-torp bulge, and belt?

Deck- for long range bombardment
Belt- close broadside protection
bulge - cause torp to detonate before hitting the hull

Yea, Bulge only Covers Part of the side of the hull, Belt is the thickest part of the armor, and deck is the thinnest most of the time

Torturous Chambers, welcome. Any idea what side you're gonna be on?



What sides are there?

Telvira and Luden and their allies, or Neutral

I'll be on Telvira's side.

I'll bring 16th Army Group, if that's ok.

Compressed Orbat:

250,000 infantry

5,000 various armored vehicles

1,400 various artillery pieces

OK, so TC is now fighting on my side (that a change :D ).

hmm I just got an idea, while I sit around and decide which side to take and all, I think I'll pull a flying Tigers, for those of you who don't know the Flying Tigers were a group of volunteer American pilots who fought in the pacific theater long before the US entered the war. So I could create some characters and send em over to Telvira as a volunteer squadron. Word of there courage and bravery being sent back home could then sway the public and allow me to join the war.

Lol, good idea, sounds good to me, god knows we could use the air support, since Ludolf just launched a Offensive that broke through the lines ,though the Kaiser is pulling a Hitler on us, telling them to go for Junnction City instead of Metros, like when Germany went after Stalingrad instead of Moscow in WW2, and we all know how that turned out correct?

We're not using actual countries. I was just drawing comparisons

Ok, it wasn't very clear.

I'll start off Neutral, trading Luden...tricky getting into Telviran ports or so it seems. Well of course adopted a convoy system upon hearing news of conflict and made sure every ship was clearly marked.

Will eventually pick a side should I get attacked by either.

hmm wonder how many volunteers I should have assemble? perhaps a squadron plus a small amount amount supports.

Some ground volunteers would be nice!

yeah that would fall under some support, its not like its going to be thousands, just maybe a few ground crews, small groups of soldiers and such.

we could use a few modern Tanks is what we really need

yeah but sending volunteers and sending equipment are two different things, send them both and well....could be seen my nation completely supports them leading to war

Lol, America did it, and stayed neutral for a while, at least my Factories are starting to turn out Pershings and Wolverines Now lol

lol yeah I'll send some P-47's and some AA guns over so we can set up a air field for the most part

hey. id like to be in this thread. I want to be on the side representing germany, if thats ok.

Go for it. Ludolf is the Germany-esque side, and they're kind of outnumbered. Look over the IC thread and this one for the history of the war so far

i did and am ready to join right now

OK! Post away!

Just one thing i wanna add here real quick, just a advisory, so far i myself have only deployed some 150,000 troops, most of which arent even in theater yet, so dont got deploying half a million troops right away, Role Play them boarding the ships or the ships leaving port to go over, not them arriving out of thin air, for you i would suggest maybe 50,000 troops at first

V-1 and V-2 were not developed till the end of the war

Yea, only 1 Helecopter was ever used anyhow, and that was by the Japanese it is believed, no ones even certain on it, V-1s and V-2s rarely ever hit their intended targets, and so were of little actually use, and he only stated 10 BBs and 2 Carriers, i guess that means hes open to sub attacks, not saying do it but he still has a little bit to learn is all, hence why i said what i said above

Also spit break update and how many of your peopleTelvira and Luden again please

63 total people being sent over, 16 pilots which will be sent with equipment

no mean how many of your pop support Telvira and Likewise for Luden

Telvira's pop is 32 million

Ludolf's is 29 million

ah ic ic, my Ns pop is over 7 billion, for this ill say 40 - 50 million or so

Mines my Actually one right now, about 65 million

Spit, is it still about 33% Telvira side and 15% Ludolf Side and the remainder still undecided?

something like that either way I figured using my actual pop on NS would imbalance to much so I think a final set number of 90 million is good (I mean I am suppose to be able to swing the war right?)

Excuse me, FYI...
Escort Carrier, the first United States Escort Carrier was commissioned 2nd June, 1941. It was originally a Merchant man. Named "USS Long Island", it wasn't even a Island. The Ship's Length Alone was 192 Feet, Not counting the much shorter Runway. It had a Complement of 20 Aircraft, some anti-air armament and a single 5" inch. http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/ships/CVE/CVE-1_LongIsland.html It also had no Bridge nor a Tower.

#1 192 feet is the size of my cousins personnal Boat, its 492 fyi, and i was guessing, wasnt entirely sure

Oop, sorry 'bout that. But still, a 492 foot runway is like, extremely tiny.

Fleet carriers of the time were onyl about 600 to 800, the Essex's were only 820 at the waterline and 872 overall, While a Nimitz is 1,040 at the waterline and 1,115 overall, Really Escort carriers were Essentially "Half" Carriers, since they were only about half the size of a fleet carrier, but they did their jobs pretty good anyhow

Yeah? Considering that Carrier takeoffs and landings were hairy at the time to begin with... Think about it if you only had half the distance to do both? and if there were other aircraft on said deck? (If I am not mistaken, CVEs early on did not have internal hangar bays...)

Early ones did not, by the time of the Baton Rouges and Casablancas which were built from the keep up as CVE they did, but not the Convert ones,

So, you see my point? trying to land on an escort carrier, or take off from and escort carrier with only like, 200 feet? or so? Because of all the other aircraft on deck? eesh.

At least they had catapults, dont forget those, in truth my one Unlce flew off of the USS Casablanca for about hafl a year, he had no trouble landing or taking off from it except in heavy seas, than he Upgraded to the USS Essex

Yeah they may be small but if they never worked they wouldn't of been used, while they had limited aircraft capacity they worked for small tasks that didn't need a big fleet carrier to be called in.

Oh, I never said they weren't cool. Nor were they not effective. They were both. One of my favorite ships if I do say so myself. I'm just saying, it sounds like a rather daunting task to be a pilot off one.

Carrier is a carrier be a pain piloting a plan of the deck of one either way I'd say a prop plane would be easier then modern jets because prop planes had slower speeds

I would like to be the USSR in this one. TG me if you can accept me or not. :D

Novus Spartus, I dont even think you have the NS population to support that big of a fleet, not to mention the time to get them said distance, that big of a force would of been picked up and crippled by allied air cover

He Has 679, but again we arent using Actual NS For this, i only used my actual one cause its close to what it should be, and i dont even believe he has looked at this thread since he signed up

Hence why i have put my most recent post in the IC Thread, so i would be certainhe would read it

I hope he comes here with the OOC, but this is what all was posted

(Me)
OOC:you said a month, its hasnt been that long, plus 25 Bismarcks and 10 Deustchlands are impossible to get that far up the coast with all my Naval power and Air power in addiiton to Telviras, and no Army in the world would ever have enough air lift sufficient for 15 11,000 man divisions, it took over 3,000 C-47s to get the American 101st and 82nd as well as the Brit 8,000 man 8th Airborne to Normandy, as well as gliders, the U-Boats are Realistic but if you are gonna advance already consider my 250,000 men, 15 Battleships, 20 Fleet Carriers, 34 Escort Carriers, 42 CAs and over 300 other warships already in position, plus over 2,000 Fighters and 1,200 Heavy Bombers

also, radar of the time could not ID Aircraft, it could only tell you were a plane was, and Spit arrived a Month ago, you skipped ahead a month ahead of Everyone, which is essentially godmodding, which means your post means nothing until the other 4 people in here catch up, in order for your "Superplanes" to exist and do what you say they would have to have armor as thin as a UH-1 Hueys, which means a few 20mm rounds or a couple dozen 50s would be able to down most of your aircraft and kill most of your men before you even get in sight of land. We are trying to keep this realistic, which means only the guy based off of the USA(Me) would be able to deploy a force even close to what your Naval Force is, 35 Battleships the USA And UK Combined didnt have that many, the USA only had 19 if i counted Correctly during the entire war, including the Arizonia and Oklahoma, and britiain only had 14 i believe, thats 33, plus all of my Heavy bombers have Norton Bomb sights whcih means that they have a high chance of hitting your ships, plus they have Tallboys, which only took 2 to capsize and sink the Tirpitz, i have more than enough bombers to sink all of your ships if i wanted to

I Would suggest you delete that post and let the month actually pass or have it essentially mean nothing

(Novus)

OCC: if you want to be such a stickler, than i will delete them. but this was a thread based on wwii tech, not wwii itself.
also, superplanes were developed before wwii, the first were gliders that could carry three panther tanks and had to be pulled by a two cockpit, 5 engine plane, or three double engine planes. later models had their own massive engines.
also, the general dogma of the americans during wwii was a huge bomber armed to the teeth that could shoot down any fighters without fighter protection. even though you have fighters and bombers, the me109 was superior to most american fighters except in durability.
also, the dogma mentioned earlier was proven to be false. many heavily armed bombers got shot down, not the occasional bomber expected. There was not a great loss of fighters against unescorted bombers.
The point of your warships outnumbering mine and therefore, my whole fleet is being sunk is plausible. that is why i had many u-boats. it was very hard for u-boats to be sunk while it was comparitavely easy for u-boats to sink warships.
although radar at that time was primitive and could not make out what country the plane came from, the human eye can. i should have made that clearer, but humans in the area can be directed to look at the sky and identify the plane. during wwii there were cards issued to troops with all the different profiles of allied and axis planes. the same goes for my country.
the major point that i will accept without argument is the timespan. i agree that i did jump a month, although that was not entirely my point. I will consider that post inactivated until a majority of posters agree that a month has gone by.


(Me)
OOC:Getting 300 miles past several hundred warships and several thousand aircraft is godmodding here, as well as skipping 1 month ahead of everyone else, thus, your saying that Spit arrived as you were moving up is one month out of Date, i said delte it because you are one month ahead of Everyone else, we are still just past when we decoded your message that you were gonna invade, when you invade is 1 month AFTER that

As for the gliders, they were never put into any use, they were also just something that Hitler hoped would work, but didnt
Im am using Primarily P-51Ds, P-47s, and F4Us, which were all Superior to the Me-109
Theres also not many eyes about 50 miles out to sea
As for the timeline, Telvira and i need to RP our troops arriving in Westport to defend it, Our Ships and Aircraft arriving, and some battles around Junction City and elsewhere, as for now, lets continue this in the OOC Thread, that was what it was made for, i will Copy and Paste them all over there and if there is still something you want to talk about lets do it there

Novus, both of those are going on at the same time, and i am waiting for Telvira to get back

Novus, its kinda hard to see dark blue Planes flying below the Horizon line, that i find hard to believe, if they were flying at combat height (5,000 FT) i would understand it, but not at 50 Feet against a dark blue ocean with dark blue painted planes with ships with a average deck height of 50 or so FT, and with planes at 7,000-10,000 feet which was the common CAP Height at the time, my planes are almost invisible, and below the Radar Floor of any availiable Radar Set

EDIT- Plus the Avenger has good armor which means only 2 or 3 would be shot down by the time they reached the harbor

I will let it go this time, but remember what i said above next time

Mind if I join the USA?

How the heck do you even play??????

How the heck do you even play??????

read the pinned topics about RPing

Mind if I play as a Romania/Bulgaria/Hungary type? One of the lesser evil states...

Sure. Be advised we're already a bit into the story, so I suggest reading the IC thread all the way before posting.

I know it is kinda late, but could I play as a soldier on one of the sides?

A single character? Sure. But be advised we're starting to wrap this up...

Oh, are you going to make a new one?

can novus spartus unveil the V1 and V2 since ludolf used x7 rockets? also, can novus spartus be close to finishing the jet fighters and bombers, and close to developing the nuclear bomb?

no bad boy down bad doggy

please, ok no nukes but the v weapons

no bad boy down bad doggy

why not? its close to the end anyway. germany had them close to the end. its accurate timeline

but they didnt get it

yes they did. they fired v1s and v2s on london and other major cities they had them and used them

i meant A-bombs fool

i said that i would take out a bombs and besides, this doesnt have to go exactly as the real war did

wheres telvira? i know hes been doing an embassy thing but he hasent shown up here? where is he?

I think he's moved onto the new boards.

Well if anyone else still interested in finishing this then I'll launch my invasion of Ludolf.

ok then but what about telvira and ludolf? telvira played both countries

Hello, sorry I haven't been around, but I have an AP test coming up, which means that I'm gonna be off NS for a while. So keep this up if you want, but basically I'm pretty much leaving Jolt for good when I get back.

is this thread and related icc thread dead?