NationStates Jolt Archive

Official Multilateral Declaration


The gross human rights violations taking place in the nation of Anghele, including but presumably not limited to the mass incineration of prisoners convicted for otherwise trivial offenses, have gone on since the beginning of the nation’s history on the world stage. Especially because Anghele is an industrialized (previously thought civilized) nation, such crimes against humanity are appalling beyond measure. The massive prison facility within Anghele’s borders is capable of processing some fifty million souls, men, women, and children whose lives are snuffed out by their government for no real reason other than refusing to bow down unconditionally and surrender their lives fully to said government.

The nations of Leistung, New Kereptica, Santheres, and Zinaire, four nations who have long fought for the betterment of humanity through humanitarian action and endorsement of expanded global human rights, look upon these egregious offenses with a mix of disgust and abhorrence. Our four great nations, united in our support of human liberty and justice, cannot allow the government of Anghele continue these offenses unabated, and it is with great vigor we will support the ending of these atrocities against humanity.

An official boycott of all goods leaving Anghele is now in effect in all four nations, and until these atrocities end, trade will be frozen with any and all nations trading with Anghele, as well as Anghele herself. Until the incinerators fall silent and the cries of millions of murdered innocents cease, this boycott will remain in effect; a full embargo of all goods coming from Anghele or coming from nations in support of Anghele via trade.

-Sincerely,

Chancellor Gregor Ringkampf of Leistung
Speaker of the Nation Joseph Keupir of New Kereptica
Regnant Marco de Rossi on behalf of the Noble Republic of Santheres
Chief Executive Gregory Bishop of Zinaire

OOC: I see now why he wants me to build him an impregnible building, lol.

ooc: mind if I get in on this?

Official Response of the Fascist Federation of the Grand World Order

But of course! It can only be expected in this world for the pathetic democracies blindly led by the nation of Leistung to come chiming in to illegally introduce the counterproductive ideas of Democracy and Communism.

ODECON is a group of Communists parading as peaceful democracies (Which is itself an oxymoron), only proving the fact that the Communist and Democracy supporter always have, and always will, work hand in hand with each other.

Let it be known that ODECON itself is effectively a dictatorship, with its leader unelected and ruling the alliance for its own purposes. The only positions actually having elected officials are secretary type positions. The pirates will claim they are fighting for "Freedom" when in reality they are fighting for Chaos, Disorder, petty morality, and personal gains!

The Order is willing to provide Anghele the full use of its weapon and reconnaissance satellites. The Communist pigs of ODECON will be butchered!

Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Fuher!

Official Response of the Fascist Federation of the Grand World Order

But of course! It can only be expected in this world for the pathetic democracies blindly led by the nation of Leistung to come chiming in to illegally introduce the counterproductive ideas of Democracy and Communism.

ODECON is a group of Communists parading as peaceful democracies (Which is itself an oxymoron), only proving the fact that the Communist and Democracy supporter always have, and always will, work hand in hand with each other.

Let it be known that ODECON itself is effectively a dictatorship, with its leader unelected and ruling the alliance for its own purposes. The only positions actually having elected officials are secretary type positions. The pirates will claim they are fighting for "Freedom" when in reality they are fighting for Chaos, Disorder, petty morality, and personal gains!

The Order is willing to provide Anghele the full use of its weapon and reconnaissance satellites. The Communist pigs of ODECON will be butchered!

Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Fuher!

Official Anghele Government Letter

--

We wish to thank the nation of The Grand World Order for the support provided to us.

And also,we wish to state that Anghele,will by all means,ignore Leistung blockades.

[REMAINING TEXT ERASED]

Thank you.

ooc: mind if I get in on this?


Official Anghele Government Letter

--

[TEXT ERASED]

Thank you.

Encrypted

To: Anghele
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

The Order would also like to paradrop weaponry of various kinds into Anghele for defense reasons, as the Communists will undoubtedly try to make landfall. Though it is unlikely they will ever even get close to the land, this is merely a precaution, and can provide extra arms for soldiers and citizens.

OOC: You're confusing a blockade and an embargo. A little vocabulary is a dangerous thing (http://dirigiblehate.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/killer-gazebo/)...


Official Anghele Government Letter

--

We strongly suggest that you stay out of this.If you declare that you´re part in this blockade,several squadrons of bombers will be headed towards your nation,with the intention of bombing it.After that,a full scale invasion will follow.

Thank you.
And now your vocabulary has shrunken to disavow knowledge of OOC. Congratulations, you're well on your way to being an honorable gazebo victim.

OOC: Spoke too soon -- GWO, there's no attack. Anghele, can you read a little more closely? There is no blockade, threat or actual.

Takaram, yes, feel free to announce that you are actually embargoing Anghele.

THERE IS NO BLOCKADE.

San Gianpiero -- The Santherese Defense Ministry issued a statement coinciding with the greater announcement by the four-nation coalition of which their nation was a part. The statement targeted specifically the people of Santheres, but was sent to news networks around the world which would have been interested.


The government of Anghele, as could be expected of people who would commit such actions, is either strikingly ignorant of the obvious signs of such a facility, or they wish to attempt to hide it at all costs with no regard held for the intelligence and logical abilities of the people of this world. That they seek to keep secret a facility of three million square feet, with incredible emission levels, and clear and constant transport of millions of individuals is nothing short of futile, and insult to the world.

But this is not because of the insult, this is because of the great atrocity, the nefarious and execrable action of a government corrupt and vile, heretofore and no longer legitimate in the eyes of the Noble Republic, against the people whom they were meant to protect. A stand must be made and this is the line in the sand: no Anghelese product will feel the light day in Santheres, no Anghelese shipping shall cross the waters of Santheres, and the same will be denied of such from the nations which choose to economically associate with the failed state of Anghele.

Thank you.

Pax tibi.


A Santherese citizen of Anghelese descent, her identity hidden to protect her and her family still in Anghele, said of the punishment that “everyone knows what happens to the citizens who do [offend]. It happens daily, dozens or hundreds, and never once are they [government] officials. That’s why my parents left, why I am Santherese.”

Assets of the Santherese military have been investigating further. Experts say there is no doubt as to the purpose of the facility in question. Others have compared aerial photographs to similar facilities including former death camps of dozens of nations in modern history.

Anghelese official statements confirmed the presence of incinerators, threatening to burn the crews of blockading ships, of which none have and, by the word of the Defense Ministry, none have been planned to be sent. Other threats consisted of torture.

Encrypted

To: Anghele
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

The Order would also like to paradrop weaponry of various kinds into Anghele for defense reasons, as the Communists will undoubtedly try to make landfall. Though it is unlikely they will ever even get close to the land, this is merely a precaution, and can provide extra arms for soldiers and citizens.

SIC:
ENCRYPTED

LEVEL 5A | MAX

001010001010101010100010010111001011

Official Anghele Government Letter

--

Thank you very much for your support.

001010101010101010111001010100101010

END ENCRYPTION

OOC: Spoke too soon -- GWO, there's no attack. Anghele, can you read a little more closely? There is no blockade, threat or actual.

Takaram, yes, feel free to announce that you are actually embargoing Anghele.

THERE IS NO BLOCKADE.

San Gianpiero -- The Santherese Defense Ministry issued a statement coinciding with the greater announcement by the four-nation coalition of which their nation was a part. The statement targeted specifically the people of Santheres, but was sent to news networks around the world which would have been interested.



A Santherese citizen of Anghelese descent, her identity hidden to protect her and her family still in Anghele, said of the punishment that “everyone knows what happens to the citizens who do [offend]. It happens daily, dozens or hundreds, and never once are they [government] officials. That’s why my parents left, why I am Santherese.”

Assets of the Santherese military have been investigating further. Experts say there is no doubt as to the purpose of the facility in question. Others have compared aerial photographs to similar facilities including former death camps of dozens of nations in modern history.

Anghelese official statements confirmed the presence of incinerators, threatening to burn the crews of blockading ships, of which none have and, by the word of the Defense Ministry, none have been planned to be sent. Other threats consisted of torture.

OOC: You're confusing a blockade and an embargo. A little vocabulary is a dangerous thing (http://dirigiblehate.wordpress.com/2008/08/12/killer-gazebo/)...


And now your vocabulary has shrunken to disavow knowledge of OOC. Congratulations, you're well on your way to being an honorable gazebo victim.

OOC: It´s just that everyone here in NS seems to like to go to a full scale war in a second or two.And sorry about how I write,I don´t RP at all.

Official Anghele Government Letter

--

The Anghele Government vehemently denies the existence of any Santherese citizen with an Anghele descent.

Emigration is forbidden by law,in our nation.Our country has such walls around it,and is so guarded that no one has effectively escaped from Anghele.We keep track of our citizens with barcodes in their wrists,and perform regular census to ensure that no one is "missing".


As for the threats made,we apologize,they were sent via our official government channel when they were supposed to be sent by the Ministry of Defense.As such,they are to be considered demented thoughts by a four star General,which has been arrested and will be sentenced to summary combustion for making such statements.

OOC: You can't watch every one at any time, and if someone is missing, they're already gone. And if you do trade at all, people have to leave the country. People leave North Korea, for God's sake.

Edit: But I'm not arguing with you, so this is my last word on the subject. I'll say I have people of descent from wherever I want. Because I play realistically.

OOC: You can't watch every one at any time, and if someone is missing, they're already gone. And if you do trade at all, people have to leave the country. People leave North Korea, for God's sake.

OOC:Why do they have to be gone?When they wake up in the morning they have to check in a special computer that every citizen has in their home.If they fail to check in at work we will know that they are gone.You have to pass your wrist in a reading machine everytime you want to do anything,enter somewhere,pay for something.Everything is done by that barcode.

And regardings to trade.People leave North Korea?Who?Government officials of course.And how many of them escaped till now?

They don´t leave North Korea for more than months.

OOC: People who have left North Korea. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_defectors)

IC: Foreign Ministry of Relations of the Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union declares that there are about 40,000 Anghelenian nationals residing in the Federation and more then 2/3rds have applied for citizenship and within two weeks, the decision will be made whether to deport them back to Anghele or to grant them citizenships, about 12,000 of Anghelenian nationals have already been granted citizenship in the Federation.

Considering the fact that the nation of Anghele does not respect human rights, the chances are high that the Anghelenian nationals will be granted citizenship in the Federation with full benefits from the welfare and healthcare systems, each Anghelenian nationals will be granted 10,000 USD from the government to help them get started in settling in the FSSU.

Approaching Anghele Airspace

The fleet of gray C-5s and C-130s had spent hours flying from their airbases in the GWO, refueling on the way. Each carried full payloads of weapons and munitions, almost all of it GWO-quality, even if it wasn't GWO-designed. A radio call went out to the Anghele Air Control, clearly identifying themselves as GWO planes coming to drop supplies. They awaited a reply.

In two of the planes, dirty weapons were found. They mainly came in the form of chemical grenades and artillery shells, but a few prototype GWO missiles with chemical payloads were present, although the Anghele military could load them with conventional payloads. These were the "Sieg" missiles still in trial testing. Lab reports stated a top speed of somewhere around Mach 5, but there was no promises. Unknown to anyone but the designers, it was a sister project of the "Heil" missile. What a coincidental name, no?

OOC: People who have left North Korea. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korean_defectors)

OOC:My borders would make North Korea ones look as guarded as your bathroom door.


IC: Foreign Ministry of Relations of the Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union declares that there are about 40,000 Anghelenian nationals residing in the Federation and more then 2/3rds have applied for citizenship and within two weeks, the decision will be made whether to deport them back to Anghele or to grant them citizenships, about 12,000 of Anghelenian nationals have already been granted citizenship in the Federation.

Considering the fact that the nation of Anghele does not respect human rights, the chances are high that the Anghelenian nationals will be granted citizenship in the Federation with full benefits from the welfare and healthcare systems, each Anghelenian nationals will be granted 10,000 USD from the government to help them get started in settling in the FSSU.

OOC:Simply ignored by reasons stated above.Nationalize everyone you want,as for me,those citizens you claim to be from Anghele are impostors from you nation.

To: All Nations Involved
From: Office of Foreign Relations

The people of Takaram are greatly disturbed by the methods of punishment in Anghele, considering them to be gross violations of human rights. As such, we demand that the government of Anghele ends this brutal and medieval judicial system. Until such time as these demands are met, an embargo will be placed against Anghele.

Cynthia Rose, Chief Foreign Relations Officer, Takaram

Approaching Anghele Airspace

The fleet of gray C-5s and C-130s had spent hours flying from their airbases in the GWO, refueling on the way. Each carried full payloads of weapons and munitions, almost all of it GWO-quality, even if it wasn't GWO-designed. A radio call went out to the Anghele Air Control, clearly identifying themselves as GWO planes coming to drop supplies. They awaited a reply.

In two of the planes, dirty weapons were found. They mainly came in the form of chemical grenades and artillery shells, but a few prototype GWO missiles with chemical payloads were present, although the Anghele military could load them with conventional payloads. These were the "Sieg" missiles still in trial testing. Lab reports stated a top speed of somewhere around Mach 5, but there was no promises. Unknown to anyone but the designers, it was a sister project of the "Heil" missile. What a coincidental name, no?



NeoPraetoria Military Airport Air Control : This is air control over.The fleet is cleared to land on runways,five to 16.

Official Anghele Government Letter

--

The Anghele Government will store the weapons until the need to use them arises.

Thank you.

OOC:My borders would make North Korea ones look as guarded as your bathroom door.




OOC:Simply ignored by reasons stated above.Nationalize everyone you want,as for me,those citizens you claim to be from Anghele are impostors from you nation.


And yet you have to let people out to have an economy. Or is yours more imploded than NKs?

To: All Nations Involved
From: Office of Foreign Relations

The people of Takaram are greatly disturbed by the methods of punishment in Anghele, considering them to be gross violations of human rights. As such, we demand that the government of Anghele ends this brutal and medieval judicial system. Until such time as these demands are met, an embargo will be placed against Anghele.

Cynthia Rose, Chief Foreign Relations Officer, Takaram



Official Anghele Government Letter

--

The Anghele Government is deeply disturbed by the embargo placed by the nation of Takaram.We are so disturbed that we will shut down the incinerators.Or not.

An embargo is now in effect against the nation of Takaram.

Takaram,we´re going to isolate you.

Thank you.

And yet you have to let people out to have an economy. Or is yours more imploded than NKs?

OOC : Think of us like a South Africa during the embargo (ironic isn´t it?) but with emigrational policies like those of North Korea.We subsist mainly from arms manufacturing.

Airfields across Anghele

The army of cargo planes landed in swarms before GWO airmen quickly began rolling out materials. Several military officers stayed behind to teach the Anghele military how to use GWO weaponry, et cetera. Following the Sieg missiles was a small team of researchers, carrying a few laptops and bags filled with various hardware.

After refueling, the cargo planes took off, gone as fast as they had came, leaving the supplies, Officers, and researchers behind.

To: Anghele Government
From: Office of Foreign Relations

Your embargo and your supposed plan to "isolate" Takaram concern us not, and your sarcastic remarks are unbecoming of any government.

Cynthia Rose, Chief Foreign Relations Officer, Takaram

OOC:My borders would make North Korea ones look as guarded as your bathroom door.


OOC: I wasn't commenting on the status of your border, simply pointing out that you were underestimating the amount of modern North Korean expatriates.

To: Takaram
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

Shoo, or else we'll do Anghele's job for them.

To: Anghele Government
From: Office of Foreign Relations

Your embargo and your supposed plan to "isolate" Takaram concern us not, and your sarcastic remarks are unbecoming of any government.

Cynthia Rose, Chief Foreign Relations Officer, Takaram


Official Anghele Government Letter

--
Don´t forget that we still have more than enough bombers to erase your pity nation out of the world atlas.

And maybe after that,we can build a new incinerator there.

Thank you.

OOC: Man, you guys are making this hard. Trying to reply as a representative of my nation, and as an ODECON official is going to be hard to keep track of since they're two entirely different people with two entirely different sets of ideals. Coming soon: message from the Ministry of Defense. Please do not mistake them as the same person as the FAS of ODECON.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/faded_enmity/ODECONOfficialCommunique.png


From: Office of the Foreign Affairs Secretary

It came across my desk some time ago that the association known as the Grand World Order has made certain suggestions regarding the political structure of ODECON. The variable definition of the word "secretary" notwithstanding, I would personally like to inform all those who do not follow the political process of ODECON that we have recently concluded our third election, which resulted in the re-election of our Leistungi president, with Jackson Miller of Zinaire, who may be known as the man previously in possession of my current position, coming in a relatively close second place.

As I believe that a lack of knowledge is a sad circumstance, I believe that the dissemination of such information is necessary to those who would otherwise be unaware of the working processes of such an organization as the Oceanic Defense Coalition.

Thank you, everyone, for your time in reading this announcement. Thank you especially to the representative of the Grand World Order for bringing up your concerns regarding our organization. We constantly strive to better ourselves, and we are grateful for the chance to clarify our positions. I pray that in the future, we shall have amiable relations, and can all, together, see the world enter a coming era of peace and prosperity.

Pax tibi,
Duchessa Alessandra Condozzi

From: Santherese Defense Ministry

To those involving themselves in this embargo.

There is no blockade of Anghele planned. There are no warships or planes being readied to assault said state. Armament and activation of the military forces of Anghele would result in a monetary loss that is unnecessary and we have no wish to see the people of Anghele taxed further nor harsher in their delicate economic state.

To the nation of Takaram.

We have received word that an embargo is being placed against you by the nation of Anghele. Though it is unlikely you interacted with this nation previously, Santheres -- and we are speaking on behalf of the Noble Congress, as well, in this regard -- will provide the necessary resources that are otherwise cut off by the embargo placed upon you.

We have also received word of the threats by the Grand World Order and Anghele and pledge our vigilant defense of your nation, and will prepare elements of our expeditionary forces for possible future action in defense of your sovereignty. Now, the work of great nations is to stand resolute in the face of imminent danger, to not back away and not allow the forces of corruption and oppression to gain yet more ground. You have our full support, and we will fight down to our teeth and nails to protect your people should the worst occur.

This is not a day for war. We urge all to stand down and cease preparations. More deaths are not, and never are, the true answer. War is a last resort, and there are many options still available. The statement of intention is not a declaration of war and must not be treated as such.

Thank you.

To whom it may concern:
The Armed Republic of Nachmere demands of the nations making allegations of this kind to provide solid evidence.
Until solid evidence is offered, we consider these accusations false. While the Armed Republic sees embargo as a legitimate tool of any government, we wish to make clear that embargo must be where this stops.
If Anghele is attacked by any of its accusers, they shall soon find themselves fighting Nachmerian troops.

Dan Gonesh, Minister of Foreign Affairs

And

Jack Lore, Minister of Defense

On behalf of the people of Nachmere.


ooc: this may be the most hypocritical move by Nachmere yet

To:Santherese Defense Ministry
From: Takaram Office of Foreign Relations

We thank you for your offer of compensation, but we feel that it will be unnecessary, as trade was limited against Anghele at best. However, we do appreciate the offer of military support should it become necessary. Please allow us to extend a similar offer of support, as Takaram cannot rightly just stand by should this disagreement fall negatively against your nation.

Cynthia Rose, Chief Foreign Relations Officer, Takaram

ooc: to say that you have not one citizen residing in another country is unrealistic, while SSU's claim of 40,000 is extreme it wouldn't be crazy for you to have hundreds of citizens in other countries. You can say all you want about having a super well guarded border it won't work. The Berlin wall didn't, the walls in Gaza don't, NK's doesn't. BUT seeing as you're a prodigy to GWO you'll probably just wank everything to some insane level that would only exist in a bad sci fi channel "life after Armageddon" movie. Also have fun waisting away trillions of dollars you could be using on defense and such with maintaining all those bardcode systems, tracking, manpower etc. Basically you're handicapping your military/police forces but oh well. On a different note apparently GWO's Anghele's diplomatic offices are apparently run by middle school children "Shoo, or else we'll do Anghele's job for them" Come on now lulz.

Official ASoGM response:

The ASoGM is shocked and disgusted by the human rights violations being perpetrated by the government of Anghele. From this point forward, there will be no more trade between the ASoGM and Anghele. Any cargo ships bearing the flag of Anghele that are caught in ASoGM waters will be boarded and seized. Any military ships bearing the flag of Anghele that are caught in ASoGM waters will be sunk will be considered hostile, and sunk. Any citizens of Anghele that escape to the ASoGM will be granted asylum.

These policies will remain in effect until the nation of Anghele changes their human rights policies.

To whom it may concern:
The Armed Republic of Nachmere demands of the nations making allegations of this kind to provide solid evidence.
Until solid evidence is offered, we consider these accusations false. While the Armed Republic sees embargo as a legitimate tool of any government, we wish to make clear that embargo must be where this stops.
If Anghele is attacked by any of its accusers, they shall soon find themselves fighting Nachmerian troops.

Dan Gonesh, Minister of Foreign Affairs

And

Jack Lore, Minister of Defense

On behalf of the people of Nachmere.


ooc: this may be the most hypocritical move by Nachmere yet

To: The Armed Republic of Nachmere
From: Office of Foreign Relations, Takaram

You ask for evidence, which is a legitimate request, but allow me to explain that the government of Anghele has made no attempt to deny these claims, but has instead admitted to the existence of these incinerators openly. I cannot say how your legal system handles situations similar to this, but in Takaram, eyewitness and defendant testimony often overwhelms evidence, and admitting to a crime will almost certainly lead to a quick and speedy end to a trial.

Cynthia Rose, Chief Foreign Relations Officer, Takaram

OOC: If this isn't a good time, I'll delete the post. But for now:


http://usera.ImageCave.com/BlankCanvasProject/TheForeignMinistry.png


While the Republic of Reijvajik, too, is disgusted at the gross human rights violations in Anghele, we also believe that war is not the answer. Thus, we would like to urge all nations involved to cease hostilities. Mutual discussion is perhaps our only hope of reaching a consensus with Anghele resulting in the liberation of their people.
This being said, trade between Reijvajik and Anghele will now be monitored, with the Government reserving the right to block any incoming or outgoing goods.

- Sincerely,

http://usera.ImageCave.com/BlankCanvasProject/Untitled-2.png

Michael Vierne
Foreign Affairs

To: Michael Vierne, Foreign Affairs, Reijvajik
From: Office of Foreign Relations, Takaram

Allow me to clarify one thing about your statement regarding Anghele. There have been on open hostilities against Anghele, and we are more than willing to meet in a conference with Anghele diplomats. The only actions taken by most nations have been embargoing trade with Anghele. Only Anghele and those aligned with her have been openly threatening nations opposed to Anghele. We hope that this has given you a clearer image of the situation.

Cynthia Rose, Chief Foreign Relations Officer, Takaram

OOC: Anghele, don't be silly about your border guard system - borders are never airtight, period. Besides, you want to have emigrants abroad - slip a few spies among them!

The recent revelations of human rights abuses in Anghele are disturbing. Nonetheless, the effort led by Leistung to embargo Anghele is unlikely to be successful. Anghele has too many trading partners for the embargo to have anything but moral force...
Now then, a few questions remain: should a state that is abusive towards the human rights of its citizenry, but previously mostly agnostic towards outsiders and relatively isolationist be embargoed? Further, what does Anghele's aggressive tone suggest about the impact of the embargo, and about Anghele's diplomatic stance? We may learn much from this seemingly weak embargo...

Response to Takaram

The call for the ceasing of hostilities made in the statement made today was primarily directed at those aligned with Anghele, as you have stated. We thank you, however, for the clarification.

The Foreign Ministry

OOC: Honestly people, they're his citizens. If he doesn't want other people RP-ing them, then let it go. It's not a big deal.

OOC: Honestly people, they're his citizens. If he doesn't want other people RP-ing them, then let it go. It's not a big deal.

Yes but the thing is, especially with a billion something population, it is impossible to completely control every single one of your citizens. To say that you can itself is a godemode.

Now claiming you have 40,000 of someones citizens is extreme and It would/should be ignored.

To say a group of maybe 100 (considering the NS population sizes) would not be insane and wouldn't be godemoding ,hell you make up more than that amount of your population in a day. So its not like it really affects you anyway.

Official Anghele Government Letter

--

The Anghele Government will officially cease the use of the incinerators.

All prisoners will have their cases re-evaluated by a special court that will give each and everyone of them a new sentence and a transfer to another prison facility if needed.We welcome international inspectors to make sure we are complying with international law.

(SIC: Of course the incinerators won´t stop.We´ll just move them to another place underground,far away from the inspectors eyes.)

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4756/officeofthechancellorfk9.gif
To: [Official Statement]
From: Office of the Chancellor
Subj: Usage of incinerators in "prisoner" execution

Your proposal is quite ridiculous--the prisoners' cases will be "re-evaluated"? What, then, is to stop the government of Anghele from handing down the exact same sentences with a different manner of execution? Because the prison facility holds some twenty-five million individuals, we find it very hard to believe that all prisoners will be retried fairly before their execution, especially because the laws governing those trials have not changed since the first declaration our coalition made!

To the multitude of nations who seem to confuse the terms "embargo" and "blockade," note that no Leistungi ships have left port for the waters around Anghele, nor will they. The only thing that has changed is that now, nations trading with both Anghele and Leistung will have their trade with our nation cut off, as is also the case with Santheres, Zinaire, and New Kereptica.

Sincerely,
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4432/ringkampfta8.png
Gregor Ringkampf
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Leistung

OOC: You're going to move 25,000,000 people...underground? And then incinerate them below the surface of the Earth, hoping that no one notices the fact that people go into tunnels and don't come out except through that hole in the ground where that strange ash is coming from? ODECON has nothing to do with this, by the way.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4756/officeofthechancellorfk9.gif
To: [Official Statement]
From: Office of the Chancellor
Subj: Usage of incinerators in "prisoner" execution

Your proposal is quite ridiculous--the prisoners' cases will be "re-evaluated"? What, then, is to stop the government of Anghele from handing down the exact same sentences with a different manner of execution? Because the prison facility holds some twenty-five million individuals, we find it very hard to believe that all prisoners will be retried fairly before their execution, especially because the laws governing those trials have not changed since the first declaration our coalition made!

To the multitude of nations who seem to confuse the terms "embargo" and "blockade," note that no Leistungi ships have left port for the waters around Anghele, nor will they. The only thing that has changed is that now, nations trading with both Anghele and Leistung will have their trade with our nation cut off, as is the case with Santheres, Zinaire, and New Kereptica.

Sincerely,
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4432/ringkampfta8.png
Gregor Ringkampf
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Leistung

OOC: You're going to move 25,000,000 people...underground? And then incinerate them below the surface of the Earth, hoping that no one notices the fact that people go into tunnels and don't come out except through that hole in the ground where that strange ash is coming from?

OOC: Don't forget the thermal signature these incinerators will be putting out, even if just at the exhaust vents.

To: Anghele
From: Takaram Office of Foreign Relations
CC: All Nations involved

While we have doubts as to your sincerity, we will be sending in an inspector. If we find that the incinerators have actually been shut down permanently, we will lift our embargo against your nation. However, if there is even the slightest evidence that these incinerators are still active, or that they have been relocated, we will maintain the embargo.


Cynthia Rose, Chief Foreign Relations Officer, Takaram

http://img.skitch.com/20080918-prnh4g6bfuxbritujb8p7nf4rr.png

We echo the concerns of the Leistungis. The offer from the Anghele government seems fundamentally flawed in many ways. While the Leistungis' concern that prisoners will be handed the same sentence again is certainly valid, we are more concerned that the twenty-five million prisoners currently detained at this facility will languish for years or even decades before receiving a new sentence. Unfortunately, it seems unlikely that the Anghele government will be able to strike a balance between swiftness, thoroughness and justice as it seems that, so far, they have only displayed aptitude in the former.

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Lady Valérie Bardet
Minister of Foreign Affairs

The United Kingdom of Telvira would like to join Leistung, New Kereptica, Santheres, and Zinaire in their embargo against Anghele. We would also like to offer asylum to any Anghelenians wishing to live a better life.

To the Nation of Anghele:
Why do your citizen go barcoded, unless your nation is so horrible that no one would willingly live there? It is obvious that your nation is a incarnation of hell, since you obviously put a lot of effort and technology, not to mention money, into insuring no one can leave. We have no intentions of hostilities, but we do believe that if some power were to take down your nation, it would be justified.
-King Cyrus II

ooc: Hello. Do I not exist?

OOC: You're going to move 25,000,000 people...underground? And then incinerate them below the surface of the Earth, hoping that no one notices the fact that people go into tunnels and don't come out except through that hole in the ground where that strange ash is coming from? ODECON has nothing to do with this, by the way.

OOC: No he is just going to dig a hole into the center of the Earth and push them off. While they are falling they would have a long time to think about what they did wrong.
-------------------------------------------------

To: Anghele
From: Ralkovian Colonial Province of Vietnam Division on Special Labor
Encrypted
Ralkovia would like to offer Anghele 600 billion dollars for the 25 million prisoners. They would be moved to Ralkovian 'labor' facilities. Not only would Anghele be able to balance out the loss of 25 million members of its population but it would know that the convicts were being punished for their crimes.

The Ralkovian Authority on Shipping would handle all movement of prisoners to Ralkovian labor facilities and the Anghele would not have to pay for anything. Prisoners would be kept in separate Work Squads to ensure no interbreeding will go on should it even be permitted for them to breed.

Open Communique

The Communist and Democratic scum speak as if they have a right to invade Anghele. Who has given the putrid, filthy, disgusting Leftists the right to declare such?

The forces of evil have announced that they intend to take action against nations such as our own to "Protect the sovereignty" of members of their mob, after said members have shown their intentions to launch unprovoked acts of war against another nation.

The Democracy Supporter and the Communist are also a hypocrite.

Continuing on the ODECON "elections"...

Did the citizens of the member states vote? No! Only the friends of the permanent Leistungi thug in office were permitted to vote. The leader of ODECON will always be the same, under the image of a false democracy. ODECON has about the same amount of democracy as a pirate ship of the 18th century, which is coincidental, as ODECON is nothing but a pirate organization itself.

Furthermore, ODECON is an alliance which intends to FORCE democracy on everyone in the world. Forced democracy is a further degradation of the ideology, which already is a horrible idea in the first place. It pollutes the minds of the Enlightened.

Fascism Forever!

OOC: Okay, a few things, all of which have been stated previously:

1) We aren't going to invade Anghele. This has been repeated more times than I can count.
2) ODECON is in no way involved here.
3) Bringing democracy to Anghele is not our intention, nor have we stated it to be.
4) Representative democracy means that the citizens elect representatives to represent their views to the rest of the organization--there were three people running, and I received the most votes from representatives. I apologize to all member-state citizens that we do not have a building able to hold one hundred billion individuals.

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From: Office of Jackson Miller, Undersecretary to the President

Thank you for your advice on how to run our representative democracy. I was not aware that fascists were so familiar with the topic, but I suppose even Hitler had time for hobbies.

Allegations that ODECON is a coalition of pirates is obviously absurd. We are no more pirates than police are criminals. It is understandable that those on the wrong side of the law would resent those who protect the innocent, so I am not surprised that those who mistreat and abuse their people see the civilized nations who value democracy, justice and liberty as scum. Clearly though, you are no more correct than the prisoner who resents the man who brought him to justice.

In no way does ODECON attempt to force democracy upon anyone. We provide economic incentives for states to treat their citizens like human beings rather than animals, and, in this particular instance, certain member states are imposing sanctions in response to gross human rights violations. ODECON has never engaged in any form of combat purely in order to spread democracy.

Sincerely,
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Jackson Miller
Undersecretary to the President, Oceanic Defense Coalition

((OOC:

ICly, the GWO is still pissed off and sees this as another forced democracy attempt. OOCly, I'm aware of what's happening. And frankly, knowing ODECON, I do have a feeling of an eventual attempt to force democracy and Leftism upon Anghele.))

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From: Office of Jackson Miller, Undersecretary to the President

Thank you for your advice on how to run our representative democracy. I was not aware that fascists were so familiar with the topic, but I suppose even Hitler had time for hobbies.

Allegations that ODECON is a coalition of pirates is obviously absurd. We are no more pirates than police are criminals. It is understandable that those on the wrong side of the law would resent those who protect the innocent, so I am not surprised that those who mistreat and abuse their people see the civilized nations who value democracy, justice and liberty as scum. Clearly though, you are no more correct than the prisoner who resents the man who brought him to justice.

In no way does ODECON attempt to force democracy upon anyone. We provide economic incentives for states to treat their citizens like human beings rather than animals, and, in this particular instance, certain member states are imposing sanctions in response to gross human rights violations. ODECON has never engaged in any form of combat purely in order to spread democracy.

Sincerely,
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Jackson Miller
Undersecretary to the President, Oceanic Defense Coalition

To: Herr Jackson Miller
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

We do not treat our people "like animals."

And what gives you the "right" to even FATHOM being able to refer to us as uncivilized? I can guarantee, if a GWO citizen was compared to any ODECON citizen, the GWO citizen would be far more civilized than any of them. Democracy instills rudeness and disgusting habits.

Furthermore, the endeavor by multiple ODECON nations to invade our own was purely to force Democracy on our people, unless you're all willing to admit that you're sick Communist-lovers, which all Democracies are.

To:Chancellor Gregor Ringkampf of Leistung,
Speaker of the Nation Joseph Keupir of New Kereptica,
Regnant Marco de Rossi on behalf of the Noble Republic of Santheres
Chief Executive Gregory Bishop of Zinaire
From: The office of the Prime Minister, The Grand Duchy of Noordeinde

The Grand Duchy of Noordeinde's people do hearby endorse your boycot against Anghele, and we will take part of your boycot.

The Grand Duchy of Noordeinde's Government says that Human rights have to be respected and not disrespected as Anghele does.

The Grand Duchy of Noordeinde hearby stops all Diplomatic relations with Angele untill Human Rights are being respected.

Sincerrely Yours,
Jonathan Roosevelt
Prime Minister
The Grand Duchy of Noordeinde

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To: [Official Statement]
From: Office of the Chancellor
Subj: Orderian Responses

We find it highly amusing that the government of the Grand World Order would continue to call us communistic, while in fact their own heavy government control of industry places their nation far closer to communism than our own capitalist system would.

On the subject of our embargo, we fail to see how it constitutes an act of war in any way, shape, or form. This is no attempt to force democracy on another nation, simply an incentive for Anghele to stop butchering mass amounts of innocent people. And who has given the putrid, disgusting leftists the right to declare such an embargo? Why the disgusting leftists themselves, of course! Unfortunately we putrid communist bastards will continue the embargo unabated, no matter the complaints from the Orderian government.

What indeed gives us the right to call the Grand World Order a nation of barbarians—could it be the labor camps? The complete and utter lack of any civil rights? The fallacy of a justice system? The warmongering and open support of totalitarian regimes? We challenge the Grand World Order to give us a single way one of their citizens differs from an animal in the eyes of their leaders, and for that matter, how one could possibly see the justice in executing twenty five million people for no reason other than they spoke up against their government.

Cordially,
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Gregor Ringkampf
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Leistung

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From: Office of Jackson Miller, Undersecretary to the President

You are correct, it is rare for animals to be beaten just because of their color.

Perhaps you are right. Nothing instills politeness like the fear of death. However, I think I prefer a citizen who can speak his mind and act as he likes without concern for this life to even the best-trained fascist lapdog.

The reasoning behind our actions in that war have already been explained repeatedly. However, if it makes you feel better, I do indeed prefer a communist to a fascist any day.

Sincerely,
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Jackson Miller
Undersecretary to the President, Oceanic Defense Coalition

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To: [Official Statement]
From: Office of the Chancellor
Subj: Orderian Responses

We find it highly amusing that the government of the Grand World Order would continue to call us communistic, while in fact their own heavy government control of industry places their nation far closer to communism than our own capitalist system would.

On the subject of our embargo, we fail to see how it constitutes an act of war in any way, shape, or form. This is no attempt to force democracy on another nation, simply an incentive for Anghele to stop butchering mass amounts of innocent people. And who has given the putrid, disgusting leftists the right to declare such an embargo? Why the disgusting leftists themselves, of course! Unfortunately we putrid communist bastards will continue the embargo unabated, no matter the complaints from the Orderian government.

What indeed gives us the right to call the Grand World Order a nation of barbarians—could it be the labor camps? The complete and utter lack of any civil rights? The fallacy of a justice system? The warmongering and open support of totalitarian regimes? We challenge the Grand World Order to give us a single way one of their citizens differs from an animal in the eyes of their leaders, and for that matter, how one could possibly see the justice in executing twenty five million people for no reason other than they spoke up against their government.

Cordially,
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Gregor Ringkampf
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Leistung

To: Herr Ringkampf
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

We don't really tell the Corporations and whatnot what to do. They do it by themselves, and we reward them for their servitude towards us.

Fallacy of a justice system? Are you off of your rocker? The Order operates perhaps the most efficient courts the world over. Everyone is given a trial unless they are killed fighting our Civilian Control Units, but that's present in almost every society. Furthermore, we would like you to explain these "Lack of civil rights", which have no power behind them in reality. And of course we support fellow dictatorships, for they are constantly targeted by filthy Leftists for violence!

Now, about those labor camps. Perhaps you haven't looked into them? It is for CRIMINALS. As in, murderers, thieves, rebels, et cetera. It is their lawfully given sentence, and it helps the economy. Say, if you were a prisoner, wouldn't you rather sit there for a few hours each day working on production lines, rather than sitting aimlessly and staring at a wall and fearing your cellmates who have turned prison gay? Our prisons are no different than standard factories, other than security is much higher. Hell, we even let companies and corporations lease such lines to amplify their production.

((OOC: Not a complete post, but my computer's battery is running out.))

OOC-OK, war developing...(slowly backing out of room)

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Dear All Whom It May Concern:

It has come to the attention that the honourable nations of Leistung, Santheres, New Kereptica, and Zinaire have made movements declaring an Embargo and Abandonment of Trade against the nation of Anghele, notably regarding the use of incineration as method of punishment.

Until this administration sees conclusive proof that use of incineration as a method of punishment has completely ceased, we must join these nations in their action.

It is, therefore, my duty to express the agreement of this administration of the actions taken by the aforementioned nations against the Anghele nation, and furthermore to announce that we are hereby enacting the same process.

It has also concerned me that the nation of the, ahem, "Grand" World Order has claimed that it's citizens are more civilised that any of the democratic world's. We must express our distaste at this claim. It is quite obvious that being told "be ceevil or I keel you" (as we can only imagine the rather yokel-ish-appearing leaders sound) is coercion, and therefore disqualifies the "Grand" World Order from claiming any such thing. Furthermore, it is patently obvious that this nation, Brittanican Adenia, is the more civilised. We can no longer take the representatives of the World Order seriously if they do not accept this hard fact.

With Regards,

Sir Reginald Edward Tewkesbury, MQO, KGA, KotR

OOC: No he is just going to dig a hole into the center of the Earth and push them off. While they are falling they would have a long time to think about what they did wrong.
-------------------------------------------------

To: Anghele
From: Ralkovian Colonial Province of Vietnam Division on Special Labor
Encrypted
Ralkovia would like to offer Anghele 600 billion dollars for the 25 million prisoners. They would be moved to Ralkovian 'labor' facilities. Not only would Anghele be able to balance out the loss of 25 million members of its population but it would know that the convicts were being punished for their crimes.

The Ralkovian Authority on Shipping would handle all movement of prisoners to Ralkovian labor facilities and the Anghele would not have to pay for anything. Prisoners would be kept in separate Work Squads to ensure no interbreeding will go on should it even be permitted for them to breed.


Official Anghele Government Letter

--

The Anghele Government accepts your offer.

They were to be burned anyway,so at least we receive some compensation for the energy to feed the incinerators used to burn those indecent animals.

Thank you.

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Dear All Whom It May Concern:

It has come to the attention that the honourable nations of Leistung, Santheres, New Kereptica, and Zinaire have made movements declaring an Embargo and Abandonment of Trade against the nation of Anghele, notably regarding the use of incineration as method of punishment.

Until this administration sees conclusive proof that use of incineration as a method of punishment has completely ceased, we must join these nations in their action.

It is, therefore, my duty to express the agreement of this administration of the actions taken by the aforementioned nations against the Anghele nation, and furthermore to announce that we are hereby enacting the same process.

It has also concerned me that the nation of the, ahem, "Grand" World Order has claimed that it's citizens are more civilised that any of the democratic world's. We must express our distaste at this claim. It is quite obvious that being told "be ceevil or I keel you" (as we can only imagine the rather yokel-ish-appearing leaders sound) is coercion, and therefore disqualifies the "Grand" World Order from claiming any such thing. Furthermore, it is patently obvious that this nation, Brittanican Adenia, is the more civilised. We can no longer take the representatives of the World Order seriously if they do not accept this hard fact.

With Regards,

Sir Reginald Edward Tewkesbury, MQO, KGA, KotR

To: Herr Edward
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

Because "Be civilized or we kill you" makes plenty of sense.

Etiquette isn't enforced by law. Our citizens could go around wearing dirty tank tops and do perhaps the most repulsive things, and we would not interfere. Our people could make monkey sounds, and we wouldn't do a thing. However, you would find that our citizens act civilized on their own accord.

Now, we don't simply go around saying "We're better" until we've analyzed the situation. From our past experiences, most of the democratic world's citizens are all too quick to start streaming obscenities, and in some countries, physically assault someone. They act like buffoons. Come to the GWO, and a citizen will only swear at you if you harass them or violate the law (I.e., if you were to get seen shoplifting, a nearby citizen might call you a "Fucking street rat"). In a photo collection of cities from the Federation and cities from democracies, we can guarantee that the citizens of our Paradise would be far more presentable.

And to those claiming we beat people for their skin color: Marshal Tyronne "Tootall" Briggs just walked by. He's the commanding officer of the entire Federal Army, and he's black. If we are so racist, why would a colored person be the unofficial second most powerful man in the Order?

To: Anghele
From: Ralkovian Administration of Special Labor
Encrypted

The deal for the prisoners has been accepted by the Grand Council. 600 billion dollars will be wired immediately. We will be sending 80 Poseidon-class cargo ships and 30 escort vessels[warships] Since security is tight in your nation we will have the ralkovian escort vessels wait outside your territorial waters while the cargo vessels will be loaded. For the protection of the cargo vessels on their way back to the ralkovian escort fleet we would like to inquire if the anghele government can spare some escort vessels until the cargo fleet can safely reach the ralkovian escort fleet.

Thank you very much,

Jimmy Jackson, minister of special labor

Official Government Letter to all nations involved in the Anghele incidents.

Good morning. I am Mew Meow II, the President of the Federation of Mewsland. Regarding the Anghele incidents, the Federation sees the horrible treatment of its citizens as unacceptable. Therefore Mewsland is hereby instating a full embargo of goods from Anghele.

Also, regarding the Grand World Order's support for Anghele, and the fact that their citizens are, in fact, no better off than those in Anghele, the Federation hereby instates a full embargo against the Grand World Order.

Any and all trade ships of the Grand World Order or Anghele in Mewsland waters shall be boarded and seized. Any and all Mewsland ships bound for or in Anghele and Grand World Order waters shall return to Mewsland.

This embargo shall be lifted when the civil rights of the people of the Grand World Order and Anghele are at least Mewsland's level.

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

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Statement From Central Command

Whilst The Armed Republic Of The Wolf Hold has no stance on what Anghele does with its citizens as they are his own people and frankly unless he starts burning Wolf Hold nationals we really don't care.

However we do purchase almost 70% of our military equipment from M.A.C, which resides inside Anghele so we wish to sate now that all shipments of equipment between The Wolf Hold and M.A.C warehouses inside Anghele will be escorted by Wolf Hold fleets. Any attempt to stop and search these shipments will be met with force and be treated as a hostile action towards The Wolf Hold. Also in line with the re-arming of the CIS military we are purchasing goods from M.A.C, when these shipments are sent they will be guarded by CISNAV fleets and once again any attempt to stop and seize/search thse shipments will be seen as a hostile action towards the CIS.

Yet again we wish to re-afirm our neutral state towards Angheles treatment of their civilians. We only wish to state that just because Anghele runs such prisons it will not stop us using MAC as a supplier.

1st Wolf's Marshall Cain

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To: [Open Statement]
From: Office of the Chancellor
Subj: Further happenings in the Anghele situation

Firstly, to the government of the "Grand" World Order, please realize that for once, this is not about you. To be perfectly honest, no one really cares what your shell of a civilization is doing right now--this is about Anghele, and human rights. There will be a time and a place to debate the merits of your system of fear-based government, but this is certainly not it.

To the Armed Republic of the Wolf Hold we must report that our embargo will also extend to the whole of the CIS and the Armed Republic herself should those nations choose to do business with M.A.C. or the government of Anghele in general. Those who do business with criminals must be considered criminals as well to ensure that our embargo is taken seriously, and to pressure the world to take notice.

As heat blooms have been detected in the reactors of several dozen Ralkovian vessels, and, with Ralkovia's past human rights record and the messages intercepted from Anghele en route to Ralkovia taken into consideration, we must assume that Ralkovia is once again moving to increase its number of slave laborers. Perhaps the government of Ralkovia believes this will be beneficial to their national image, or that it will be "justice" for the wrongly convicted that they will not perish in the incinerators.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Whether these individuals are to be incinerated or spend the rest of their days in a work camp, the fact remains that they have been convicted for the smallest of transgressions, and are guilty mainly of political crimes, crimes which should never result in one's freedoms being ripped away, carted away to a foreign land to spend the remainder of their days slaving for the same people they have devoted themselves to resisting. The Federal Republic will extend the embargo to Ralkovia should that nation choose to use the "criminals" for their own purposes rather than try them fairly and individually and determine whether or not they are truly guilty of anything more than thinking.

Cordially,
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Gregor Ringkampf
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Leistung

OOC: Ralkovia, $600 billion dollars? Jesus Christ, how many fleets are you preparing to scrap? By the way, what exactly is a "Poseidon" Class vessel?

Official Government Letter to all nations involved in the Anghele incidents.

Good morning. I am Mew Meow II, the President of the Federation of Mewsland. Regarding the Anghele incidents, the Federation sees the horrible treatment of its citizens as unacceptable. Therefore Mewsland is hereby instating a full embargo of goods from Anghele.

Also, regarding the Grand World Order's support for Anghele, and the fact that their citizens are, in fact, no better off than those in Anghele, the Federation hereby instates a full embargo against the Grand World Order.

Any and all trade ships of the Grand World Order or Anghele in Mewsland waters shall be boarded and seized. Any and all Mewsland ships bound for or in Anghele and Grand World Order waters shall return to Mewsland.

This embargo shall be lifted when the civil rights of the people of the Grand World Order and Anghele are at least Mewsland's level.

Thank you,
Mew Meow II
Mew Meow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

To: the Federation of Mewsland
From: The office of the Prime Minister, the Grand Duchy of Noordeinde

We do hearby political support your military actions, surches, boardings and seizures on Anghele ships.

I just received approval of my congress to send a Frigate (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/SHIP_FFH-LCF_De_Zeven_Provincien_lg.jpg) wit a Militairy peace Force to the region to support and defend your actions. We as well have an embargo against Anghele and stopped al Diplomatic relations.

All militairy threats on you, or ourselfs in international waters will be responded on as a hostile action.

Point of attention!
* We do not militairy but only politcal support the actions against The Grand World orders ships
* All Military actions against sovereign nations will be responded on as a Hostile action

Sincerrely Yours
Jonathan Roosevelt
Prime Minister
The Grand Duchy of Noordeinde

The Armed Republic of Nachmere is unpleased with the militaristic tone of these so called "enlightened" nations. We will dispatch the 3rd Carrier Task Force to Anghele. The task force includes the NSS "Anghele" Nimitz class carrier, the NSS "Mt. Tall" Battleaxe class cruiser, 3 Hatchet class frigates, 2 Sa'ar 4.5 frigates, 2 Erie class submarines and 1 Type 209 submarine as well as support vessels. Any attempt to interfere with this force will be met with a swift and violent response. Anghele has agreed to your demands regarding treatment of criminals inside their country, and now we must ask that you stand down.

Ray Ginger, President of the Armed Republic of Nachmere,
On behalf of the people of Nachmere.

The Confederacy was in a complex situation, to say the least. It had partnerships in Zinaire, yet it also had partnerships in - and with - M.A.C., Anghele's primary outlet to the world. Which was more valuable? This remained uncertain. On the one hand, Ralkovia and Anghele had been significant trading partners thus far; on the other hand, Zinaire, Leistung et al were more respectable, less threatening, more amenable to negotiation - in short, more businesslike.

As for the embargo itself, on the one hand, the long-standing neutrality of the Confederacy suggested it should stay out. After all, cooperation is easiest when none stand in anyone's way, when none are offended. On the other hand, the accusation made against Anghele was horrific. What people would - could - conceive of incinerating 25 million souls? How was it even possible? The satellite photos showed the truth, yet some refused to believe. Surely, this was just some massive trash-disposal complex. Surely, the trains were just carrying wastes, not people.

Confused, confounded, and cut off from Leistung, the Confederacy chose its customary course. No apparent response was made. Editorials were written in its mouthpiece, the Enquirer, decrying all parties - Anghele for its horrific acts and lousy diplomacy, Ralkovia for its apparent mercenary slaving, the embargoing parties for their choosing to meddle in the business of others and to bring such a horrible issue to light, the GWO for its hyperaggressive, paranoid diplomatic statements, and the Confederacy itself for ending up in this situation. Still, no comment was issued by any of the relevant authorities.

Meanwhile, in Neogania, apparent industrial accidents had led to a fire burning the Confederacy's tank facility and an explosion that wrecked its half of the jointly-owned rifle plant beyond repair. All were adamant that these had been accidents, and the arson report conducted by the on-staff security concurred. Those same security personnel were criticized for their inadequate response time, with the excuse they used - an erroneous report that the main roads to the factories were obstructed by weather conditions - widely mocked. In Grise, on the other hand, laborers decided the moment was ripe for a strike, shutting down the production lines; management decided that this was a strike they could wait out, for the time being, and elected not to hire scabs but to merely eat the losses.

Experienced observers saw Singapore's hands in these incidents; then again, excessively experienced observers saw Singapore's hand in everything.
---
Private to Nachmere: What's being done is an embargo. Mewsland and Nooriende are conducting searches and seizures in their own waters, not near Anghele. It's being done most likely to appease internal political opinion, rather than for imperialistic reasons. Your deployment is a waste of money, unless you intend to conduct exercises alongside Anghele.

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Official Transmission under authority of the following:
Reich Admiralty, Foreign Ministry, War Ministry, Interior Ministry

By Royal Decree a notice to the government of Anghele. All vessels under the banner of Anghele are officially subject to seizure and/or sinking at the discretion of Reichsmeere-Flotte naval commanders.

All crews that surrender or are captured will be taken and be placed into internment camps where they will undergo psychological deprogramming and reprogramming.

Further a 140% tariff is to be levied with all nations trading with Anghele, as well as the establishment of an embargo against Anghele.

Official Message from the Mephrasian Empire

To: The Federal Republic of Leistung et al.

The Empire of Mephras is most troubled to hear of your extremist stance against the rights of sovereign nations to conduct free trade without the threat of intervention. While Mephras tends to support the civil rights of men and women within her borders, she cares little for the choices made by other governments regarding theses issues. Simply put, if Mephras, or any of her many entrepreneurs finds it beneficial to conduct business with another sovereign state, no matter what "atrocities" you may claim are conducted by that nation, the decision to trade rests solely the concern of Mephrasian businessmen and that nation. To the best of my current knowledge, there are few if any business links between our Empire and the nation of Anghele, meaning the effect of such actions on our prosperity will be negligible. However, even such slight actions being taken by a regional neighbor must be of concern to our government. Be warned, such aspirations toward the role of international or even regional policeman shall not go unnoticed by our nation, but rather will be met with continual disdain and condemnation. Further, should these ploys ever be turned against our nation or her trading partners, severe and appropriate consequences shall follow.

Good Day,
Persis Bellefeuille
Foreign Minister of Mephras

By Royal Decree a notice to the government of Anghele. All vessels under the banner of Anghele are officially subject to seizure and/or sinking at the discretion of Reichsmeere-Flotte naval commanders.

ooc: in international water or in your water?

ooc:
Nachmere wherever I find them, unless your ships start sailing with Anghele flags then you have no worries anyway.

OOC: New Kereptica you do know Nachmere is on Anghele side

"One forty percent? No. We're done with Anghele. Wire them, buy out their cooperative ventures, I don't care how much it costs. Unkerlantum could give us the chance to shine; we can't let them take that away, nor can we let Anghele take their trade from us," Luis shouted.

"So, in other words, we're going to burn our bridges in hopes of building another?" Hideki asked, not bothering to disguise his anger. "You don't break established friendships, period. It's not done."

"Some 'friend' Anghele has been. An embarrassment on the world stage, an instant rival continually trying to crowd us out. Hell, they haven't shared any technical expertise with us; we reached out, but they never took us up on jointly-funded research," Boris scoffed. "I say ditch 'em."

"You realize your money would have to be used to buy them out?" Mondo asked.

"The money frozen in Friedlichen?"

"Oh, right. So, how do we buy out Anghele, then? Just eat the loss?"

"No. We make some new friends, suggesting they help contribute to us in exchange for favors."

"Favors?"

"Well, consider the facilities MACHI|SAEDS operates here. Perhaps Leistung would like some shipyards, or Zinaire some engine facilities..."

"Also, remember the Xult incident - cover up money transfers as DPR sales," David suggested.

"So... vote?"

"Yup." Several hands shot up immediately; others stayed down. After all, the Big Five weren't in agreement. So, the vote wasn't yet called. Five minutes passed, then ten more. Glares were exchanged - then nods. Finally, Hideki and the other hold-outs relented. And so, as always, a unanimous vote - at a price, of course. Not only would his backers get a larger share of the overall profits this year, they'd also get treated to a meal at Confederation downstairs. For free.

Encrypted messages went out to Leistung, Unkerlantum, Mewsland, and the other states that were embargoing (or merely considering an embargo), offering incentives - design rights, transfer of assets from MACHI|SAEDS, and so forth - for financial support for a buyout of MACHI|SAEDS and UAF. Meanwhile, a message went out to M.A.C., requesting to buy out its shares of UAF and MACHI|SAEDS, at whatever cost was thought reasonable.

OOC:
Unkerlantum, it may be going a bit far to take direct action outside of your own sovereign waters/EEZ but if feel you have the muscle to back it up...

IC:

Press release from the Crookfur Foreign Office

The Crookfur government today wishes to announce the addition of several nations to the proscribed trading list. These nations are, Anghele, Nachmere and the Wolf Hold. Any trade with these nations is hereby prohibited and any indivduals or organisations carrying out trade with these nations will be liabel for prosecution.
Additionally any vessels sailing udner the flags of these nations shall be subject to seizure should they be intercepted within the Crookfur Economic Exculsion Zone or the Covenant, Protectorate or Fraser Gaps.

ooc: Realistically I wouldn't act outside my own waters, but I felt like being belligerent

[encrypted]
To: Crookfur Foreign Office
From: David Law, on behalf of the Board of the CoDC
Re: Anghele

We are attempting to extricate ourselves from our business dealings with Anghele, but will need financial assistance, as we intend to buy out M.A.C.'s joint ventures with us. We are prepared to offer you domestic production rights for designs of your choice, or the transfer of facilities currently owned by MACHI|SAEDS but that will be bought out, in exchange for said assistance. Please note that other states strongly considering, or alreadly involved in, the embargo of Anghele are receiving variants on this message. Further, as we are taking steps to end our trade with Anghele, please ensure that we remain excluded from your proscribed trading list.

Kimmstein Incorporated
CEO-David Frazier
To: David Law

We at KIMINC have received your request for assistance in buying out now toxic assets in your joint venture with MAC.

While we do not wish to have any designs, or DPRs we are willing to contribute 6.8 billion dollars in capital if an agreement for several MACHI|SAEDS factories to be built within the Reich and hire Unkerlantian citizens.

To: David Frazier, CEO, Kimmstein, Inc.
From: David Law, CoDC
Re: Buyout

We accept the offer. Provided that the employees at those factories are citizens (or criminals duly sentenced to labor for a fixed period), rather than slaves, we would remain Lantol-compliant; if the factories would not be Lantol-compliant, we are willing to build the factories, then simply transfer them outright to KIMINC at no extra cost.

As a side note, we will probably retire the name MACHI|SAEDS when we bring it into the Confederacy as a member in good standing (which will occur once we finish the buyout) - it's unwieldy, a reminder of our now-toxic cooperation with MAC, and doesn't fit well at all. Feel free to suggest an alternative.

Nachmere-City
10.000 protestors carrying posters and banners against NPS, M.A.C and Anghele were marching down Parliament Avenue. They were shouting slogans about freedom, justice and peace. Most of the protestors were armed, as were most Nachmere citizens.
“Stop! This is an unauthorized demonstration. You are ordered to stop marching and leave.” A Nachmere- City Police officer was shouting into a megaphone.
“You stop and leave, you fascist pig!” A protestor shouted back with his own megaphone.

To: David Law, CoDC
From: CEO, Kimmstein, Inc.
Re: Buyout

As per your request, factories established will remain compliant with your stipulations while the Lantol accords no longer hold true in the Reich we at KIMMINC will continue to comply with them.

[encrypted]
To: Crookfur Foreign Office
From: David Law, on behalf of the Board of the CoDC
Re: Anghele

We are attempting to extricate ourselves from our business dealings with Anghele, but will need financial assistance, as we intend to buy out M.A.C.'s joint ventures with us. We are prepared to offer you domestic production rights for designs of your choice, or the transfer of facilities currently owned by MACHI|SAEDS but that will be bought out, in exchange for said assistance. Please note that other states strongly considering, or alreadly involved in, the embargo of Anghele are receiving variants on this message. Further, as we are taking steps to end our trade with Anghele, please ensure that we remain excluded from your proscribed trading list.

To: David Law, CoDC
From: Keith Langsrig, Crookfur
Re: Anghele

Dear Mr. Law,

It will likely be of little surprise for you to learn that CoDC has been considered for entry onto the proscribed trading list. However we are aware of you efforts to extricate yourselves from past dealings and as such you have not been added.

Whilst it is not currently in the interests of the Crookfur government, the MoD or Crookfur Arms to acquire any DPRs or former MACHI|SAEDS facilities we are willing to make significant funding packages available in the form of both and short term loan agreements with the Crookfur Central Bank and several other Crookfur based financial bodies.


Kind regards

Keith Langsrig

Foreign Secretary
The Kingdom of Crookfur

To: Keith Langsrig, Foreign Secretary, Kingdom of Crookfur
From: David Law, CoDC Board
Re: Anghele

We will consult with Crookfur's financial institutions regarding the duration and size of any loan agreements once we get a sense of how much will be required to help extricate ourselves from MAC - a move we should have never made in the first place. Foreign entanglements have this ugly habit of forming knots; when one end gets pulled, everyone gets stuck together. Neutrality, above all else, will guide our destiny.

We greatly appreciate that you have agreed to maintain trade with us.

M.A.C Heavy Industries | Defense

The price tag on the Ticao Island factory is;

$ 1.600.000.000.000 [Trillion] USD.

For the Smith Armoury Factory in Anghele,it´s ours without anykind of discussion.

As for Universal Air Freight you can keep all your shitty planes.We will order all of ours to get back to Anghele.

Most of the company is ours,so we retain the rights for the company´s name "Universal Air Freight".

If you want to purchase the rights to use the name $ 500.000.000.000 [Billion] USD is the price you have to pay.

Oh,and CoDC can only sell the DPR´s for products made by them.

Not by the MACHI | SAEDS joint venture.That will be considered a copyrights infringement and will be severly prosecuted.

Thank you,

M.A.C Heavy Industries Defense CEO

Julian Bale.

OOC: CoDC can do whatever the hell he wants. There's no such thing as international law here.

OOC: CoDC can do whatever the hell he wants. There's no such thing as international law here.

M.A.C Heavy Industries | Defense

Ok,than I´ll do what I want aswell.

CoDC,a warning.

Sell any of my products without authorization and you will find that M.A.C will do the same with yours.

Thank you,

M.A.C Heavy Industries Defense CEO

Julian Bale.

ooc for the love of it Anghele Stop doing ic to ooc posts

OOC: I meant the name thing, but this works too.

EDIT: Also, listen to Isa.

ooc for the love of it Anghele Stop doing ic to ooc posts

OOC: For the love of it Imperial Isa,don´t you have a life besides telling others what to do?I answer IC and OOC questions and remarks,the way I WANT TO.It´s none of your business until I see a sign saying "Moderator" beneath your name.

ooc wow you just don't see why ooc and ic don't mix

Official Government Letter to all nations involved in the Anghele incidents.

Good morning. I am Mew Meow II, the President of the Federation of Mewsland. Regarding the Anghele incidents, the Federation sees the horrible treatment of its citizens as unacceptable. Therefore Mewsland is hereby instating a full embargo of goods from Anghele.

Also, regarding the Grand World Order's support for Anghele, and the fact that their citizens are, in fact, no better off than those in Anghele, the Federation hereby instates a full embargo against the Grand World Order.

Any and all trade ships of the Grand World Order or Anghele in Mewsland waters shall be boarded and seized. Any and all Mewsland ships bound for or in Anghele and Grand World Order waters shall return to Mewsland.

This embargo shall be lifted when the civil rights of the people of the Grand World Order and Anghele are at least Mewsland's level.

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

Update from the Federation of Mewsland

The embargo on the Grand World Order is hereby struck null and void, however, a 200% tariff is being imposed on goods from the Grand World Order and a 175% tariff is being imposed on goods from nations trading with or giving assistance to the Grand World Order and Anghele. Further updates will come as necessary.

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr337/NSAdenia/Flags%20and%20Insignia/SmallODC.png

For The Express Attention of All Nations Concerned:

There are those amongst the international community that still expressly believe that we enlightened nations (for that is precisely what we are, whether it is liked or not; the systematic killing of political dissenters is the mark of communists and fascists, not of nations with a modicum of civility in their administration) are attempting some form of military action against the nation of Anghele (please note the communication from the administration of Nachmere). This is, as it was, not the case.

This, as expressed before, is not an ODECON-wide action, is not a military action, is not a use of force against a nation. This is a trade embargo, and those who cannot tell the difference are welcome to waste their resources - you shall not see a single Adenian ship on the horizons around Anghele.

To the honourable Madam Bellefeuille, whilst the nation of Mephras maintains it's excellent civil rights record, it seems inconceivable that we would even think of taking action against it! Our stance is hardly extremist - turning a blind eye to such actions against a nation's own populace merely serves to reinforce the notion that such actions are acceptable and correct - something Adenia will not have on her conscience.

With Kindest Regards,

Sir Reginald Edward Tewkesbury, MQO, KGA, KotR

OCC: No, it is our business because you are completely throwing 6 years of established protocols in our faces. If you want to RP here, you have to at least observe the distinction between IC and OOC for christ's sake!

Update from the Federation of Mewsland

The embargo on the Grand World Order is hereby struck null and void, however, a 200% tariff is being imposed on goods from the Grand World Order and a 175% tariff is being imposed on goods from nations trading with or giving assistance to the Grand World Order and Anghele. Further updates will come as necessary.

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

Another update from the Federation of Mewsland

Tariffs on goods from all nations helping fight for better civil rights within the Grand World Order and Anghele are hereby reduced to 60% of their normal price (which is 45% of the item's value) for the duration of the embargo and other efforts. The new tariff value for the duration of the embargo and other efforts is 27% of an item's value.

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

To: Julian Bale
From: David Law, CoDC
Re: MACHI|SAEDS

First, we will transfer $1.6 trillion to your account in two days, once the necessary capital has been made. Second, with regards to UAF, you do not own a majority of UAF, merely a majority of its aircraft; the UAF Board was split 10-10-1, with that understanding in mind. We nonetheless accept that you alone retain the name UAF, and recommend that you permit your aircraft currently in operation to finish their contracted runs prior to being brought back to Anghele. After all, those contracts were with UAF; since UAF is now an MAC concern, any fees for failures to complete contracts would apply to you. Our aircraft will conduct their final runs as UAF planes, then be retrocessed back to Cathay Cargo. Third, will you accept $95 billion for the purchase of MACHI|SAEDS's shipyards in Christchurch? That is our assessment of the facility's worth. Fourth, we would not think of infringing on your copyrights; we trust that you will do likewise. Please note that MACHI|SAEDS never did get around to copyrighting anything, so the point is more or less moot. We assure you that the same severe prosecution, along with other necessary actions, would be taken in the event of any infringement of our copyrights. Finally, with regards to the facilities that we formerly operated in Anghele - the fully-owned tank tread plant, the jointly-owned rifle plant, and the plants owned by MACHI|SAEDS, we will transfer full ownership to MAC itself immediately. We apologize about the condition of some of the facilities, but recent tragic industrial accidents wrecked the tank tread plant and damaged the rifle plant, as you are probably aware.

We apologize for having to end what appeared to be, however briefly, a profitable endeavour, but it seems that the costs of doing business with Anghele outweighed the costs of not doing business with Anghele.

"So, $6.8 billion from Unkerlantum, loans from Crookfur, and we'll take the rest as a loss. Costs of doing business, I guess," Boris muttered.

"Eh, at least we're getting facilities in Unkerlantum, expanding our presence into Haven," Natasha replied.

"True enough."

To: Crookfur Central Bank
From: Confederacy of Defense Corporations
Re: Loan

We wish to secure a long-term loan of $3 trillion US, with our facilities in Burtford, Endenia Prime and St. Vincent, valued at $3 trillion US, as collateral. We would be using the loan to take full control of facilities once jointly-owned by us and MAC, and for investment in research and development. What interest rate will you charge, and what length of time should the loan run?

*snip*

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4756/officeofthechancellorfk9.gif
To: Persis Bellefeuille, Foreign Minister of Mephras
From: Office of the Chancellor
Subj: Leistung as the world's policeman

Free trade is indeed something that the Federal Republic values greatly--however, the idea that our nation will be indirectly or directly supporting a government which imprisons and executes approximately two percent of its population for unknown reasons is something which will now and forever transcend the need for monetary gain through trade. If being the "world's police" does in fact mean pressuring the perpetrators of atrocities against humanity to cease for the good of humanity, then yes, Leistung considers itself the world's policeman. When we declared independence from Germany at the closing of the Second World War we swore that never again would such atrocities occur, and we take that oath quite seriously.

Just as one might claim those nations have the "right" to treat their citizens as animals, Leistung has the right to take actions it sees fit in dealing with them.

Sincerely,
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4432/ringkampfta8.png
Gregor Ringkampf
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Leistung

OOC: Not to Mephras: I foresee a flame war on the horizon. This is IC hostility, not OOC.

occ sorry Leistung but when they do that it's hard to tell which is which

OOC: I don't really care, honestly. Anghele, you are in fact mixing up OOC and IC, but Isa, unless you have something IC to say, I'd prefer you stayed out of the conversation.

Official Press Release From the Ministry for Foreign Relations

Following the revelation of barbaric and uncivilized treatment of "prisoners" in the Nation of Anghele, the Armed Republic of Salzland wishes to announce that it will immediately sign onto the proposed Leistungi economic embargo of Anghele. The Armed Republic will not do business with any nation which acts in such an inhuman manner. Nor will it do business with, or associate with, any nation which condones such actions through any manner, including expressions of economic, military or political support.

Any Anghele-flagged vessels in Salzland waters will immediately be escorted out by elements of the Salzland Navy, while Anghele assets maintained in Salzland will be frozen and seized by local, regional and federal police forces. Should there be any Anghelese nationals presently residing within the Armed Republic, they may consider themselves expelled unless they request political asylum within twenty four hours.

Let me reiterate by stating that the Armed Republic will not conduct business with a nation, or any representatives of a nation which resorts to such inhuman actions. Nor will we allow any of the barbarians who express support for such uncivilized conduct to dictate to the Armed Republic who we are and are not permitted to restrict our trade with. Should any nation presently supporting the genocide in Anghele resort to the threat of, or outright use of force to pressure or attempt to pressure any Salzland citizens, corporations or the Salzland Government into purchasing Anghelese exports or dropping this embargo, then it will be considered an Act of War against the Armed Republic.

Signed on Behalf of the Minister for Foreign Relations
J. Marcus Davis

(OOC: The last paragraph is directed squarely at the people who apparently do not know what an 'embargo' is)

Confederacy of Laudren

Laudren will continue to maintain economic relations with said nation, Anghele, although we see these barbaric actions toward any human wrong. Laudren will defend any non-military/commercial ships from Anghele within territorial waters. Know that Laudren stands neutral, but favors Anghele.

Vice Roy, Jhon Herrscher

Originally Posted by Office of the Board of the Confederacy
To: Crookfur Central Bank
From: Confederacy of Defense Corporations
Re: Loan

We wish to secure a long-term loan of $3 trillion US, with our facilities in Burtford, Endenia Prime and St. Vincent, valued at $3 trillion US, as collateral. We would be using the loan to take full control of facilities once jointly-owned by us and MAC, and for investment in research and development. What interest rate will you charge, and what length of time should the loan run?

To: Confederacy of Defense Corporations
From: Crookfur Central Bank
Re: Loan

We hereby agree to make funds amounting to $3 trillion available to you, we would offer an interest rate of 2.5% over a 20-30 year term.

Would this fit your requirements?

Well written, Minister. As he wrote, they will not be pressured to change their direction, or it is the same thing as a declaration of war. Mewsland shares the same policy. Therefore, the governors and I have placed a new amendment in the Constitution of the Federation of Mewsland.

Amendment 31: Any pressure, from any source outside Mewsland, for any reason, directed towards a Mewslander, corporation, or the Government to try and coerce them into changing their opinion will be considered an Act of War against the Federation of Mewsland and will result in swift military action.

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

Current status of actions performed by Mewsland in response to the Anghele incidents:

Embargo against Anghele: Active

200% tariff against TGWO: Active

175% tariff against nations trading with/supporting TGWO/ Anghele: Active

Reduced tariff of 27% on all nations against Anghele: Active

OOC: 27% tariff is reduced‽ Protectionist, aren't we?

ooc: It would appear that way.

OOC: Could be a sort of 'reverse-tariff' - "hey, we'll pay you to export to us!" That would be amusing...
Unk - TG.

To: Crookfur Central Bank
From: CoDC
Re: Loan

A 30-year loan at 2.5% interest would be satisfactory. We should be able to repay early, but a long-term loan is safer for all involved.

OOC: How is GWO paradropping anything to anybody? He has several huge fleets parked around his capital.

OOC: How is GWO paradropping anything to anybody? He has several huge fleets parked around his capital.

ooc: it is Grand Wanking Order we're talking about here.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4756/officeofthechancellorfk9.gif
To: [Open Statement]
From: Office of the Chancellor
Subj: Further happenings in the Anghele situation

Firstly, to the government of the "Grand" World Order, please realize that for once, this is not about you. To be perfectly honest, no one really cares what your shell of a civilization is doing right now--this is about Anghele, and human rights. There will be a time and a place to debate the merits of your system of fear-based government, but this is certainly not it.

To the Armed Republic of the Wolf Hold we must report that our embargo will also extend to the whole of the CIS and the Armed Republic herself should those nations choose to do business with M.A.C. or the government of Anghele in general. Those who do business with criminals must be considered criminals as well to ensure that our embargo is taken seriously, and to pressure the world to take notice.

As heat blooms have been detected in the reactors of several dozen Ralkovian vessels, and, with Ralkovia's past human rights record and the messages intercepted from Anghele en route to Ralkovia taken into consideration, we must assume that Ralkovia is once again moving to increase its number of slave laborers. Perhaps the government of Ralkovia believes this will be beneficial to their national image, or that it will be "justice" for the wrongly convicted that they will not perish in the incinerators.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Whether these individuals are to be incinerated or spend the rest of their days in a work camp, the fact remains that they have been convicted for the smallest of transgressions, and are guilty mainly of political crimes, crimes which should never result in one's freedoms being ripped away, carted away to a foreign land to spend the remainder of their days slaving for the same people they have devoted themselves to resisting. The Federal Republic will extend the embargo to Ralkovia should that nation choose to use the "criminals" for their own purposes rather than try them fairly and individually and determine whether or not they are truly guilty of anything more than thinking.

Cordially,
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4432/ringkampfta8.png
Gregor Ringkampf
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Leistung

OOC: Ralkovia, $600 billion dollars? Jesus Christ, how many fleets are you preparing to scrap? By the way, what exactly is a "Poseidon" Class vessel?

(That itself is a G-dmode. First of all, I have not sent anything yet. Second of all, if I did send vessels I wouldn't exactly paint their destination on the ship. Third of all, well I just wanted a third of all.

Anghele I would like a response to my cargo ship post please.)

OOC: Anghele's response was an official statement which we easily could have seen...either way, we're going to see the ships parked outside Anghele taking the prisoners, so what's the big deal?

The Armed Republic, following a very severe public turmoil in the last 24 hours, has decided to withdraw its support of Anghele. NPS factories in Nachmere were nationalized. The Carrier group has been recalled.
We hope that the situation can be resolved by diplomacy rather than force, and we will from now on remain neutral on this subject.

Ray Ginger, President of the Armed Republic of Nachmere,
On behalf of the people of Nachmere

Official Response of the Fascist Federation of the Grand World Order

But of course! It can only be expected in this world for the pathetic democracies blindly led by the nation of Leistung to come chiming in to illegally introduce the counterproductive ideas of Democracy and Communism.

ODECON is a group of Communists parading as peaceful democracies (Which is itself an oxymoron), only proving the fact that the Communist and Democracy supporter always have, and always will, work hand in hand with each other.

Let it be known that ODECON itself is effectively a dictatorship, with its leader unelected and ruling the alliance for its own purposes. The only positions actually having elected officials are secretary type positions. The pirates will claim they are fighting for "Freedom" when in reality they are fighting for Chaos, Disorder, petty morality, and personal gains!

The Order is willing to provide Anghele the full use of its weapon and reconnaissance satellites. The Communist pigs of ODECON will be butchered!

Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Fuher!

Handwritten Response

Sir/Madam:

Dr. Hodz would like to make it known that if you persist in saying that members of ODECON have the same ideology as you (read: communism) then he will have no choice but to remove your nation from earth.

Plus you made him ruin a good issue of the Kent Enquirer when he spit his Earl Grey laughing at the dictatorship nonsense.

Consider yourself warned.

<name unreadable>,
Secretary to Dr. Jules Hodz

Official Message of the United States:

This is simple: Anghele has 24 hours to decide. Cease your anti-human-rights activities or be removed from the CSS. Your choice.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/2784/battletechclanwolf.png

Offical Message From Central Command

To all nations involved with the crisis with Anghele, The Armed Republic Of The Wolf Hold wishes to remove all reservations in reagards to the persecution of Anghele by foregin nations. These nations may continue there embargos and other sactions without complaint from the Wolf Hold. We know wish to re-afirm our stance towards this human rights violation as neutral with our only concern being that of our shipments with MAC.

Following negotiations MAC has seprated from Anghele and has moved to the Wolf Hold with Wolverine Heavy Industries/ Defence Contractors now owning a stake in the company. This means that all MAC products will be shiped from the Wolf Hold negating our part in this affair. Once agin we wish to state we are neutral and just wish to leave this saga behind us as our interest are now looked after.

1st Wolf's Marshall Cain
CinC The Armed Republic Of The Wolf Hold

OOC: 27% tariff is reduced‽ Protectionist, aren't we?

no... the original tariff was 45%

OOC: Yey.
Official Anghele Government Letter

--

The Anghele Government closed down the incinerators.

All inspectors are welcome to visit Anghele (with prior consent) to ensure that the incenerators have been shut down.

Careful with the dust though.

Thank you.

no... the original tariff was 45%
OOC: O.O

Do you expect anyone to actually trade with you under 45% tariffs?

(Anghele could I have a response please. Just want to determine if the transaction went through yet)

To: Wolf Hold
From: Takaram Embassy

I was pleased to hear that you have ceased relations with Anghele. While we understood your reasoning from continuing trade with Anghele, and if Takaram was in your position, I feel we might have made the same decision, our government was not pleased by it. However, please note that in the future, arms manufacturing is a major industry in Takaram, and while most of our products are used domestically, we due have enough of a surplus to help supply you should you need it, although it does not appear that you will seeing as you have acquired MAC.

Have a good day
Ambassador William Blake, Takaram Embassy, Fang, Wolf Hold

OOC: The 45% actually resulted in much better trades that most nations would kill for.

IC:

The Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union will continue it's trade embargos on the Anghele Federation and will soon be introducing visas for Anghele citizens and Diplomats, however we will not be introducing the full embargos and sanctions on Anghele untill the Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union has examined the entire situation and untill the Foreign Ministry creates his report on the situation regarding human rights in Anghele.

We wish to buy a stake in the MAC industry if approved by the new stake owners, and in the next few weeks, we will be sending a few of our diplomats along with the Foreign Minister in discussing the relations between the Federation and the Armed Republic of Wolf Hold and few of the topics which will be presented are increasing our trades between the two of our nations, establishing a free trade agreement and establishing a memorandum of understanding and discussing in buying a 5 or 10% of the shares in the MAC industries.

End IC

OOC: No Mewsland, adding an additional charge of 45% of the imported product's value as tax would not, "better trades that most nations would kill for", make.

ooc: I would kill....kill the nation that had a 45% tariff

IC:

The Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union will continue it's trade embargos on the Anghele Federation and will soon be introducing visas for Anghele citizens and Diplomats, however we will not be introducing the full embargos and sanctions on Anghele untill the Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union has examined the entire situation and untill the Foreign Ministry creates his report on the situation regarding human rights in Anghele.

We wish to buy a stake in the MAC industry if approved by the new stake owners, and in the next few weeks, we will be sending a few of our diplomats along with the Foreign Minister in discussing the relations between the Federation and the Armed Republic of Wolf Hold and few of the topics which will be presented are increasing our trades between the two of our nations, establishing a free trade agreement and establishing a memorandum of understanding and discussing in buying a 5 or 10% of the shares in the MAC industries.

End IC

M.A.C Heavy Industries

I´m still the owner of most shares.I just moved M.A.C instalations to Wolf Hold and sold them 20% of M.A.C shares.

So,in a word.

No.

Thank you.

M.A.C Heavy Industries CEO,

Julian Bale

(Anghele could I have a response please. Just want to determine if the transaction went through yet)


Official Anghele Government Letter

--

We are still loading the last prisoners into your ships.It would be faster if your ships crew members didn´t spend all their time picking and insulting the prisoners,which makes them riot,and causes delays in the lines.

Please see if you can do something about that.


Thank you.

Mewsland announces a reduction in permanent tariffs

Today, after much pressure from the international community, Mewsland has reduced its tariffs. The new rate is a mere 10% of an item's value. Now, Mewsland's actions against Anghele are still active, which means that nations going against Anghele have a reduced rate of 6%.

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

Official Anghele Government Letter

--

We are still loading the last prisoners into your ships.It would be faster if your ships crew members didn´t spend all their time picking and insulting the prisoners,which makes them riot,and causes delays in the lines.

Please see if you can do something about that.


Thank you.


Encrypted
We will make sure anyone who slows down the loading will be thrown in the boats with the slaves.

M.A.C Heavy Industries

I´m still the owner of most shares.I just moved M.A.C instalations to Wolf Hold and sold them 20% of M.A.C shares.

So,in a word.

No.

Thank you.

M.A.C Heavy Industries CEO,

Julian Bale

It's cool.

OOC: Slaves?

OOC: How is GWO paradropping anything to anybody? He has several huge fleets parked around his capital.

((OOC: Only one of which is really doing anything. Furthermore, none of the aggressors have made an IC post in a while, and as such, I'm starting to do minor foreign operations again. Also remember, my capital is only one city of the GWO.))

ooc: it is Grand Wanking Order we're talking about here.


((OOC: Fail flamebait is fail.))

Handwritten Response

Sir/Madam:

Dr. Hodz would like to make it known that if you persist in saying that members of ODECON have the same ideology as you (read: communism) then he will have no choice but to remove your nation from earth.

Plus you made him ruin a good issue of the Kent Enquirer when he spit his Earl Grey laughing at the dictatorship nonsense.

Consider yourself warned.

<name unreadable>,
Secretary to Dr. Jules Hodz


To: Dr. Hodz
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

The fact that you threaten to "remove us from Earth" because of our accusations makes it even more obvious that Democracy supporters are hypocrites. What ever happened to the "Free Speech" you practice? Why should countries such as my own be forced to become petty democracies when countries like yours don't even follow their own rules?

By the way:

ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist!



Open Communique

We have been aware from the start that the current situation is not an invasion or blockade. However, we have reason to believe that the disgusting democracies will eventually do so, and would like to repeat our stance: Any military violations of the sovereignty of Anghele will be responded to with full force. Meaning, in the likely event of this becoming a full blockade, the aggressors can expect to have their ships destroyed within the week.

Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer.

OOC: Anghele, are you going to let us buy MACHI|SAEDS's shipyards in Christchurch for $95 billion (our assessment of their worth)?

ooc: Hardly, after reading over your factbook I can point out several wank issues.

Being spread out as you claim to be and having no centralized territory is a logistical nightmare in itself, the crusher vehicle you speak of would not "insanely reduce logistics personnel" they are expensive, and a c-130 size craft can only carry two of them so you would waist too much money both on crushers and on aircraft to field enough of them to make them actually effective in the method you want. Of which you already waist billions in having your cities as walled fortresses, with massive amounts of AA and Artillery. Added all together with they equipment you say you have and amount of training you say you give etc you would be broke. Also just because someone hasn't made an IC post in awhile doesn't all of a sudden mean their assets are gone...I doubt any of the fleets around your capital would actually allow aircraft to freely fly over them but at least you didnt say the airdrops were coming from Magna Polis I'll give you that one. However until the other stuff is addressed Grand Wanking Order it remains.

ooc: Hardly, after reading over your factbook I can point out several wank issues.

Being spread out as you claim to be and having no centralized territory is a logistical nightmare in itself, the crusher vehicle you speak of would not "insanely reduce logistics personnel" they are expensive, and a c-130 size craft can only carry two of them so you would waist too much money both on crushers and on aircraft to field enough of them to make them actually effective in the method you want. Of which you already waist billions in having your cities as walled fortresses, with massive amounts of AA and Artillery. Added all together with they equipment you say you have and amount of training you say you give etc you would be broke. Also just because someone hasn't made an IC post in awhile doesn't all of a sudden mean their assets are gone...I doubt any of the fleets around your capital would actually allow aircraft to freely fly over them but at least you didnt say the airdrops were coming from Magna Polis I'll give you that one. However until the other stuff is addressed Grand Wanking Order it remains.

((OOC: Next time you OOCly insult me as "Grand Wanking Order", I'll be sure to pay the mods a visit for flamebaiting.

Furthermore, it doesn't seem to occur to you that most of these provinces are more like dependencies. To be honest, most of them are tiny little islands flying GWO flags that we own but don't really have a presence on. And the others? They're often in clumps, et cetera.

Perhaps you don't know this, but the UK and the US have more than 100 each of various islands and islets that they own and protect.

As for the assets being gone, what do you expect me to do? By your standards, they could just stop posting and I'd be stuck in limbo for the rest of my days on NS, unable to do a thing.

Now, about Crushers; their prototypes are $500,000 USD. Prototypes. Consider the fact that my nation mass produces them. And a C-130? I don't use them as much as most nations, partially because they're tiny compared to things like the C-5 Galaxy. Personally, I use the C-5, An-225, and a few others. And do you think I send all of them fully built?

About those walls, artillery, et cetera: Walls aren't expensive. No, not at all. Artillery cannons, etc, are. But consider the fact that I didn't purchase all of it at once; it's a slow process, but considering I make multiple tens of trillions of USDs NS-yearly, I can afford adding such now and then.

And finally, note the size of my military. I actually RP having a relatively small (Compared to the 150 million+ personnel I could have) military that is highly mobile and high-quality, rather than a slow, giant army that people think I have for some reason.

Now, I'm not going to continue this, simply because this is not the subject of the thread. Now kindly shut your mouth and focus on the thread. Being "elitist" isn't winning you any friends here.))

ooc: No after awhile, when collectively the thread dies as in everyone in the thread quits which happens a lot on II..then you can ignore the fleet presence etc, seeing as the thread itself is still alive I think allanea is posting..you really can't. The crusher itself still wouldn't "insanely reduce personnel just an fyi....and I'm perfectly fine being elitist. Always better than being a prole.

Excerpt from Official Study Report on level of civilization amongst various nations.

..Following the study of some 100 states both fascist and democratic, we found that the closed fascist society retards the populous in terms of cultural growth, while the strict discipline of fascist states promoted well behaved adolescents. In democracies we found that while adolescents are prone to be more rebellious and expressive, the society as a whole grows much more quickly by the intermingling of cultures and ideals whereas in totalitarian fascist states where often one race is promoted over all others, and opposition ideals are often stamped out via the use of force this can not occur. As such we conclude that no fascist state can be as civilized as a democracy because of the inherent inability for the growth and integration of culture. However fascist states were keen to having more well behaved and more patriotic adolescents, although this would often turn into fanatical nationalism at later years of life and further close off the society.

((OOC: Which is precisely my reason for being Fascist. Instead of growing culturally (My country is culturally like 1950's America), people grow scientifically, financially, and technologically, as they're more focused on becoming smarter than being the "cool kid" who happens to be a pot-smoking "OG" from "Da Hood" who listens to shitty rap music. Democratic culture is often viewed as expanding and becoming better, when it's really decaying.

Civilization is about the presence of law, order, and the betterment of the Species.))

ooc: that last bit was IC btw.

A letter was sent to Anghele, Grand World Order and countries that have participated in these conflict by couriers from Union Socialist State of Martilia.


==========

TO: To the leaders of Anghele, The Grand World Order and countries participating these conflict
FROM: Field Marshall Mateo Umaga, Premier of Union Socialist State of Martilia


We are against the inhuman and uncivilized doings of Anghele to it's citizens and foreigners. We know that there are no Martilians in the country of Anghele, but we do not want citizens to be burned to dust through using incinerators. You might tell us that we, Martilians, agree in Forced Labor, but we will not do a more inhuman act more worst than that.

From there, we urge the government of Anghele the following
1) We want these incinerators to surrender to Martilian government or any other countries that are against the use of these machines to humans. The incinerators will be destroyed in public and several delegates from countries will overlook the entire destruction of these incinerators.
2) Destroy of all tools and equipments related to incinerator machines; and lastly
3) We want the shutdown of all factories that are capable of making incinerator tools, equipments and machines.

I'm certainly disagree with letting them remove the incinerators by themselves as these are the people that cant be trusted. Failure to comply with these demands will result in a possible full-scale war against Anghele. If you want to avoid a war, I suggest to follow these demands if you want to maintain peace.

I also urge other countries in these resolutions to ensure the safety of your citizens resided/living in the country of Anghele.


Regards,
Field Marshall Mateo Umaga,
Premier of Union Socialist State of Martilia

==========

OOC: I have dispatched ships (2 Main Carrier Taskforce and 3 Battleship Taskforce) near the international waters of Anghele. Currently they are still on the way. The ships course will be based on the decision of Anghele regarding this matter.

A letter was sent to Anghele, Grand World Order and countries that have participated in these conflict by couriers from Union Socialist State of Martilia.


==========

TO: To the leaders of Anghele, The Grand World Order and countries participating these conflict
FROM: Field Marshall Mateo Umaga, Premier of Union Socialist State of Martilia


We are against the inhuman and uncivilized doings of Anghele to it's citizens and foreigners. We know that there are no Martilians in the country of Anghele, but we do not want citizens to be burned to dust through using incinerators. You might tell us that we, Martilians, agree in Forced Labor, but we will not do a more inhuman act more worst than that.

From there, we urge the government of Anghele the following
1) We want these incinerators to surrender to Martilian government or any other countries that are against the use of these machines to humans. The incinerators will be destroyed in public and several delegates from countries will overlook the entire destruction of these incinerators.
2) We want the shutdown of all incinerator factories and prohibit the use of incinerators to humans.

I'm certainly disagree with letting them remove the incinerators by themselves as they are the people that cant be trusted. Failure to comply with these demands in a possible full-scale war against Anghele. If you want to avoid a war, I suggest to follow these demands if you want to maintain peace

I also urged other countries in these resolution to ensure the safety of your citizens resided/living in the country of Anghele.


Regards,
Field Marshall Mateo Umaga,
Premier of Union Socialist State of Martilia

==========

OOC: I have dispatched ships (2 Main Carrier Taskforce and 3 Battleship Taskforce) near the international waters of Anghele. Currently they are still on the way. The ships course will be based on the decision of Anghele regarding this matter.


Official Anghele Government Letter

--

Thank you for giving us new ships.We have sent 10 Nimitz Class Carriers along with 60 Battleships.Fully armed.

And to make sure your ships aren´t going anywhere,five squadrons of INF-2000 Haribon Multirole Fighters have been scrambled to escort our ships.

Oh,and they will be surrendered to us,move an inch and you will face Anghele might.

Your ship commanders will be taken to Anghele where they will be prosecuted.After that they will return to your country.With an extra hole in each one´s head.

Since you only have a six million population,we are wondering about sending some men to your country.Like five million.To take over.

Thank you.

OOC: If you prefer I can send a number of bomber squadrons,and your "pretend to be" Navy will be sunk in a matter of minutes.

OOC: and I'm perfectly fine being elitist. Always better than being a prole.

You can't be an elitist if there is no elite. Being better at military designs/tactics at Draftroom doesn't necessarily make you a good RPer – and quality of RP is subjective, so there cannot be a real 'elite' of RPers. Besides, we don't have to be 100% realistic. GWO's stuff is not 100% realistic (though the particular things you referenced are non-issues), but he is an excellent roleplayer.

IC:

Official Allanean Message to Martilia:

The Incinerator functions have been already stopped, you socialist buffoons. We suggest you turn back, before dealing with two nations of whom each has a military larger than your population.

It's a normal day to Field Marshal Juan Henry Pulag, as sips a cup of coffee, a message was given by a courier to him. He opens the letter and stated that:


==========

Official Allanean Message to Martilia:

The Incinerator functions have been already stopped, you socialist buffoons. We suggest you turn back, before dealing with two nations of whom each has a military larger than your population.

==========

Field Marshall Pulag: Hmm...I see....they've been stopped.

Pulag grabs the phone and contacted the Red Navy's Commissar..

Field Marshall Pulag: Commissar...
Commissar Kanleo Gurta: Ah, Minister. Any news??
Field Marshall Pulag: I have received a letter from Allanea that the incinerator functions we're stopped, as they say.
Commissar Kanleo Gurta: And you clearly believe them??
Field Marshall Pulag: Well, certainly not, but I suggest to turn your ships back.
Commissar Kanleo Gurta: Why, Minister?? That's like being showing we're weak!!
Field Marshall Pulag: Commissar, I dont want to lose those ships. We know we're just a newly independent country with a stable armed forces, but we dont have much a fight against them. Although, I'm enraged with Allanea's words, we better just do it. And besides I have a different plan.
Commissar Kanleo Gurta: What is it, Minister??
Field Marshall Pulag: Well, it's a classified information. I'll tell you when it started. For now, order the ships to fall back.
Commissar Kanleo Gurta: Alright, yes sir.

Commissar Kanleo Gurta grabbed the radio and send a message to the taskforce sent off the coast of Anghele, "This is Commissioner Kanleo Gurta, the Minister of Defense ordered the ships to turn back and go home. You might think this is an act or showing how weak we are, that's the order of the Minister. Make it fast, or a war will erupt not any too soon. I hope you come here in time. Gurta, out".


The ships turned and headed back, without knowing that Anghele ships was sent to their current location.


Meanwhile back at Ministry of Defense building, Pulag contacted the KER (renamed from Spetzla).

Field Marshall Pulag: Sir?? I need to talk to you


OOC: To be continued.....

To: Dr. Hodz
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

The fact that you threaten to "remove us from Earth" because of our accusations makes it even more obvious that Democracy supporters are hypocrites. What ever happened to the "Free Speech" you practice? Why should countries such as my own be forced to become petty democracies when countries like yours don't even follow their own rules?

By the way:

ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist!

Dear Complete Moron (read: you),

I wasn't kidding.

Last warning. Don't screw up again.

Sincerely,
Dr. Jules Hodz

IC:
Official letter from Mewsland

Good evening. As I write to you today, the conflict in Anghele is growing. The constant threats made by both sides are increasing my country's war readiness. However, I have released an executive order regarding the incidents..

Executive Order 10705:An attack against any asset of the embargoing forces against Anghele will be an Act of War against the Federation of Mewsland.

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

OOC: Okay. Any more flaming/flamebaiting/etc. shall result in an instant report of the post.

No more of this either.
ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist! ODECON is Communist!
It is clearly NOT true.

OOC:Lmfao Mew. Like your leaders name.

Martilia, nice writing. Your nation is too small to hold much control over others though, so dont start up conflicts like this. You wouldn't really have any military to speak of, except for a few boats armed with light guns, a few tanks, and lightly armed police. Give it time though. Before trying anything that may lead to war, check your nations population, against theirs, along with the populations of those on both sides. Don't take on something too big for you to win, or you will be thrown from the group of people thought to be good RPers by those you go against. Just sit back, watch, and discuss a few small things, add your two cents. If you do well, and you seem to have a good hang of RPing, you could easily become a super power within time. Your population is too small, and your too new is all.

You wouldn't really have any military to speak of, except for a few boats armed with light guns, a few tanks, and lightly armed police.

There are many nations in real life with populations equal or less than his that have well trained and equipped armed forces way beyond what you have just described.

OOC: I mean on NS, in RL its different. I mean, in RL there aren't nations with 6.78 billion. Or more. On NS the general rule is what I said above. Obviously, if he has help from a bigger nation, than he can have as big a military as he wants.

OOC: Daiwiz... why don't you get in on the fun?

OOC: I mean on NS, in RL its different. I mean, in RL there aren't nations with 6.78 billion. Or more. On NS the general rule is what I said above. Obviously, if he has help from a bigger nation, than he can have as big a military as he wants.

[OOC: Erm, no, it doesn't make a difference. It is all relative. If he has the same population as these real-life examples and a GDP to go along with it there is absolutely no reason why he can't have a capable armed forces comparable to them. There have also been sizeable groups of roleplayers in the past who have chosen to 'cap' their population to more sizeable numbers and no 'general rule' (that does not and has never existed) has stopped them from forming a military.]

OOC: I am thinking about it, but the dilemna I face is this: I would go against Anghele, but he has enough enemies currently, plus he's a big buyer. I might join in later if this turns into comeplete war, cause I want/need to show off my new GKT series in action lol. I seriously wanna try em out.

Hryvatia, this is the rule I was taught when I first started, so it's the rule I personally go by. Only a few people cap their pop, but I salute those that do. How NS is set up, he doesn't get any military until later on. I meant he wouldnt really have enough weapons or ships to give away like that so early in the game.

OOC: Big buyer. Oh please. Just because he buys so much doesn't mean you can't sell the stuff to him, just charge a higher price. Raise export tariffs (yes, I know the term isn't correct). And, back to your first point, the more enemies, the better, because without a sizable force ready to bear down at a moment's notice, this guy is never going to change.

Hryvatia, this is the rule I was taught when I first started, so it's the rule I personally go by. Only a few people cap their pop, but I salute those that do. How NS is set up, he doesn't get any military until later on.

[OOC: There is absolutely NO 'rule' that states so. If there is, link me to it. Kindly do not mislead new players into thinking that they can't defend themselves from larger nations. If you wish to continue this over TG please do in order not to clutter this thread.]

Official Anghele Government Letter

--

Thank you for giving us new ships.We have sent 10 Nimitz Class Carriers along with 60 Battleships.Fully armed.

And to make sure your ships aren´t going anywhere,five squadrons of INF-2000 Haribon Multirole Fighters have been scrambled to escort our ships.

Oh,and they will be surrendered to us,move an inch and you will face Anghele might.

Your ship commanders will be taken to Anghele where they will be prosecuted.After that they will return to your country.With an extra hole in each one´s head.

Since you only have a six million population,we are wondering about sending some men to your country.Like five million.To take over.

Thank you.

OOC: If you prefer I can send a number of bomber squadrons,and your "pretend to be" Navy will be sunk in a matter of minutes.

OOC: Firing on ships in international waters is usually an act of war.

OOC: Firing on ships in international waters is usually an act of war.

OOC: It doesn't seem like he's too worried about that.

OOC: Firing on ships in international waters is usually an act of war.

A letter was sent to Anghele, Grand World Order and countries that have participated in these conflict by couriers from Union Socialist State of Martilia.


==========

TO: To the leaders of Anghele, The Grand World Order and countries participating these conflict
FROM: Field Marshall Mateo Umaga, Premier of Union Socialist State of Martilia


We are against the inhuman and uncivilized doings of Anghele to it's citizens and foreigners. We know that there are no Martilians in the country of Anghele, but we do not want citizens to be burned to dust through using incinerators. You might tell us that we, Martilians, agree in Forced Labor, but we will not do a more inhuman act more worst than that.

From there, we urge the government of Anghele the following
1) We want these incinerators to surrender to Martilian government or any other countries that are against the use of these machines to humans. The incinerators will be destroyed in public and several delegates from countries will overlook the entire destruction of these incinerators.
2) Destroy of all tools and equipments related to incinerator machines; and lastly
3) We want the shutdown of all factories that are capable of making incinerator tools, equipments and machines.

I'm certainly disagree with letting them remove the incinerators by themselves as these are the people that cant be trusted. Failure to comply with these demands will result in a possible full-scale war against Anghele. If you want to avoid a war, I suggest to follow these demands if you want to maintain peace.

I also urge other countries in these resolutions to ensure the safety of your citizens resided/living in the country of Anghele.


Regards,
Field Marshall Mateo Umaga,
Premier of Union Socialist State of Martilia

==========

OOC: I have dispatched ships (2 Main Carrier Taskforce and 3 Battleship Taskforce) near the international waters of Anghele. Currently they are still on the way. The ships course will be based on the decision of Anghele regarding this matter.


OOC:Which part in bold didn´t you read?

OOC:Which part in bold didn´t you read?



Oh, I read it. But his ships are in international waters, and he hasn't actually declared war yet. North Korea made threats stating that if the US/Japan/Etc shot down their test missile/rocket, it would be an act of war. Martilia's threat isn't any different, really.

OOC:Jeez, I can never get my point across. Ok, this is both for Mew for the second part, and you for the first part. I had a typo "How NS is set up, he doesn't get any military" I meant a military, not any. Sorry for that. Anyways, what I am saying is the question of raising money for the military doesn't come up until you reach a certain size. at which point that amount is small, if you look at the calculators. I can't speak the greatest, so I have problems getting across what I mean. Besides, I meant to warn the dude that some might fire the ignore cannon at him cause of his size. Or laugh. Similar to what Angheles doing lol.

Mew: You are correct on export terrifs, it just won't do enough. Besides, who will we fight, except for those that are considered "Evil" like Angheles treatment of prisoners?

The following post is bad cause I can't get the words to flow.Martilia, I want to give you a gift, so follow the link, which is this underlined part (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14674797#post14674797). I will help you build.

IC:

To:All forces currently involved in the embargo of Anghele
From: the United Socialist States of Daiwiz

We beleive that you are being nearly as lowly as Anghele, using force to end a tradition that has been carried on by the nation of Anghele, most certainly for generations. We beleive that a more peaceful solution may have come to the same end, without all of this. We wish you to remove your embargo, resume peaceful negotiations with Anghele, and, if you beleive he is continuing the burning of prisoners, to launch a small investigation that is permitted by the government of Anghele so as to make certain that no other souls are harmed. This suggestion is meant so as to stop this sort of thing from happening every again, and to allow you to make certain there are no more incerators.

Graith Dr'klow,
Politburo

To:All forces currently involved in the embargo of Anghele
From: the United Socialist States of Daiwiz

We beleive that you are being nearly as lowly as Anghele, using force to end a tradition that has been carried on by the nation of Anghele, most certainly for generations. We beleive that a more peaceful solution may have come to the same end, without all of this. We wish you to remove your embargo, resume peaceful negotiations with Anghele, and, if you beleive he is continuing the burning of prisoners, to launch a small investigation that is permitted by the government of Anghele so as to make certain that no other souls are harmed. This suggestion is meant so as to stop this sort of thing from happening every again, and to allow you to make certain there are no more incerators.

Graith Dr'klow,
Politburo

To: The United Socialist States of Daiwiz
From: Office of the Minister for Foreign Relations, Salzland
CC: Nations of the World

To Whom It May Concern,

The Armed Republic must express its outright shock and horror that anyone, much less an individual speaking in an official capacity for the United Socialist States of Daiwiz, would argue moral equivalency exists between boycotting the economic products of a nation, and a nation slaughtering millions of its citizens. No nation realistically capable of acting has advocated the use of force against the Anghelese; rather, the international consensus has been to avoid providing any political or economic assistance to a regime dedicated to butchering its own people en masse. Surely any reasonable individual or government would recognize that telling a government "You should not massacre your own people" is a much less effective method of ending that practice than refusing to support that nation's economy with the hard-earned currency of free men and women. Likewise, the advocacy of a toothless response (to wit the "small investigation") is so ludicrous as to smack of outright complacency in a crime against humanity.

Should the views of your message reflect official Daiwiz policy in this matter, I am compelled to state that the Armed Republic of Salzland will be forced to reconsider its diplomatic and economic ties with the United Socialist States of Daiwiz.

Signed,

J. Marcus Davis
Minister for Foreign Relations

Dear Complete Moron (read: you),

I wasn't kidding.

Last warning. Don't screw up again.

Sincerely,
Dr. Jules Hodz

To: Dr. Jules Hodz
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

And the Communist knows no other language than the barbaric tongue, of which only threats and violence exist.

By the way, ODECON is Communist.

((OOC: It's not really flaming, it's ICly making fun of the ridiculous proposition Akimonad has made.))

OOC: That post makes absolutely no sense. You give a gift to a nation embargoing Anghele, and then you turn around and call us as lowly as Anghele.

IC:
To: The United Socialist States of Daiwiz
From: The Government of the Federation of Mewsland.

I have a question. How is an embargo using force? If we were to use force, Anghele would be under a six-nation coalition's control by now.

Second, how can we be as lowly as Anghele? We do not incinerate twenty-five million plus the number that have been incinerated beforehand for merely speaking out against their government. We do not stop all emigration. We do not force citizens to go through bar-coding or forced censuses or computer checks.

I despise your attempt to make us out as the perpetrators when we are not. With all due respect, how in blazes' name can you support these people?

Thank you,
Mew Mæow II
Mew Mæow II
President
The Federation of Mewsland

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4756/officeofthechancellorfk9.gif
To: Graith Dr'klow
From: Office of the Chancellor
Subj: Outright shock and horror

It is a rare occasion indeed that I find myself able to communicate to another world leader in a manner this frank, but it seems as though that occasion has presented itself here today.

You sir, are a jackass.

A tradition that has been carried on for generations? Dear Lord man, the government is burning innocent people en masse! Twenty five million of them! How a man can possibly justify ignoring such atrocities is something which is doubtless understood far better in Daiwiz than it is in Leistung. And what should we do once we end the embargo? Launch a small investigation with the permission of the government of Anghele?! Are you mad?! The same government which incinerates two percent of their citizens is going to suddenly be benevolent enough to allow our "small investigation" to see every part of their twisted society?

I cannot fathom what was going through your mind as you wrote your last statement to the world, and I think I may be better off not trying to.

With all due contempt,
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4432/ringkampfta8.png
Gregor Ringkampf
Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Leistung

OOC:Lol, this by no way reflects personaly opinion or anything, it's simply my nation doesn't like it when people go and gang up on others to force something onto them. Let us see where this shall go, hmm? Oh, and I like to play with the little guy. I'm also tired, so half of what I say is stupid, and just to have fun, and fool around....Probly.

IC:

To: Federal Republic of Mewsland
From: United Socialist States of Daiwiz

We apologize for the word "lowly" but none other was able to come to mind. We did not suggest that you burned 25 million or more, we meant that by stooping to such means of force you are on your way to imitating the nation of Anghele.
Do you not have the death penalty in your nation? Such is the same as in Anghele, from what we are able to find. Do you not consider treason a very haenous, and punishable crime? The government of Anghele merely has a more strict rule over what is considered treason, and what is not. That does not mean they are backwards, barbaric, or even wrong. We do not beleive that burning people by the millions is right, but it is by no means the cruelest of punishments that I have been witness to within other nations for crimes much less than treason.
Bar coding citizens would be a very effective way to keep the peace. There would not be massive searchs required for lost persons, and when some do dissappear it will be quite obvious that they are gone. If a very small sample of blood is taken then it would also be much easier to discover whom has a dangerous sickness, and who does not. Some nations keep DNA samples, or fingerprint samples of all citizens. Anghele merely goes one step further.
By assisting the nation of Martilia we hope to assist a new nation to prosper, and to gain a new ally.
An embargo can be a use of force, as that is the only way it will work. You threaten the nation you are embargoing with war, or other such things. From what I have seen, many have chosent the approach of using warships rather than merely trade.

Graith Dr'klow,
Politburo

To: The Armed Republic of Salzland
From: USSD

Sir, we do not agree to the slaughter of millions of citizens, but neither do we agree to stopping trade with many other nations, who may only be able to get their items from Anghele, and so have no other choice but to trade with them. Although I am quite certain this is not your intention, you are hurting many more people than the nation of Anghele, because you are causing smaller nations the inability to get resources that they require.
We do not suggest you merely tell off the leaders of Anghele, but instead you should keep the threat of embargoing, war, etc, in case they refuse. By allowing teams to search the area of Anghele, you can be certain that never again shall the furnaces bellow venting the blak smog of burning bodies. Force should only be used as a reserve option, in our opinion.

Graith Dr'klow,
Politburo

To: The Federal Republic of Leistung
From: The United Socialist States of Daiwiz

I shall take that as a compliment, on your first note. Mules are quite stubborn, and are quite difficult to work with, both of which I am. I shall also take your calling myself mad as a compliment, because to work as a politician you must be mad, else the backstabbing and dangerous games would drive you so.
I realize they would not just allow your parties within, we meant that you should hold the threat of force from many different nations in reserve, rather than to use it outright as some have.
We do not approve such an en masse killing, but do you happen to have the death penalty within your nation? This is merely Angheles version of such. Do you consider treason to be a haenous crime? One that is punishable by death? This appears to be such with the leaders of Anghele, the difference being that they are very strict on such.
We do agree that such en mass killing must be stopped, but not like this. By embargoing nations involved in trade with Anghele you are hurting many nations, and many companies that have no but to trade with those in Anghele. they may be unable to get the products they require elsewhere. One of our many companies, United Defense, has strong ties with Anghele, for they account for nearly half of all of UDS's profits. Should they refuse to sell to Anghele, they would most certainly lose the business, costing over 2 million Daiwizians their jobs. Simply, by breaking off trade with other nations that have no choice, you are doing harm to more people, even though that is not your intention, I am sure.

Graith Dr'klow,
Politburo

OOC:Lmfao Mew. Like your leaders name.

It's actually spelled with the æ instead of e, so I need to change that

To:All forces currently involved in the embargo of Anghele
From: the United Socialist States of Daiwiz

We beleive that you are being nearly as lowly as Anghele, using force to end a tradition that has been carried on by the nation of Anghele, most certainly for generations. We beleive that a more peaceful solution may have come to the same end, without all of this. We wish you to remove your embargo, resume peaceful negotiations with Anghele, and, if you beleive he is continuing the burning of prisoners, to launch a small investigation that is permitted by the government of Anghele so as to make certain that no other souls are harmed. This suggestion is meant so as to stop this sort of thing from happening every again, and to allow you to make certain there are no more incerators.

Graith Dr'klow,
Politburo

The ASoGM will remove it's trade ban once the government of Anghele has shown that he has stopped incinerating people for trivial crimes, and reviews every case of people sentenced to incineration.

OOC:Lmfao Mew. Like your leaders name.

Martilia, nice writing. Your nation is too small to hold much control over others though, so dont start up conflicts like this. You wouldn't really have any military to speak of, except for a few boats armed with light guns, a few tanks, and lightly armed police. Give it time though. Before trying anything that may lead to war, check your nations population, against theirs, along with the populations of those on both sides. Don't take on something too big for you to win, or you will be thrown from the group of people thought to be good RPers by those you go against. Just sit back, watch, and discuss a few small things, add your two cents. If you do well, and you seem to have a good hang of RPing, you could easily become a super power within time. Your population is too small, and your too new is all.


OOC: Hmm...you have a point there. I could have a Stable Red Army, that would be Infantry, Land Weapons, Arilleries, and Tanks, also the Red Air Force, possibly, with a strength of 20 planes. :) Navy..yes it should be only like Coast Guard, for now. Until we hit up 50M Pop. Well problem is, I dont know what's wrong with my pop, it's very slow, playing around 6M. Pish. Hahahaha.....

OOC:Lol, this by no way reflects personaly opinion or anything, it's simply my nation doesn't like it when people go and gang up on others to force something onto them.

ooc: Daiwiz because I'm sure odecon is tired of saying so by now, an embargo does not have to involve any application of military force. An embargo is when a nation voluntarily ceases its own trade with another nation. You appear to have it confused with a blockade, which is not the same thing.

Tariffs also do not involve the use of force; they are a trade measure and simply involve adding a tax to goods from out of the country. In this case, it simply means that goods from anghele would be taxed at higher rates.

The ASoGM will remove it's trade ban once the government of Anghele has shown that he has stopped incinerating people for trivial crimes, and reviews every case of people sentenced to incineration.

For the umpteenth time, they have already stopped.

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Official Greal Statement
Ministry of Foreign Affairs

To: No one in particular
Encryption Level: None
Subject: Embargo and deployment

The Imperial Republic of Greal is stunned by the countless human rights violations in the nation of Anghele and will be placing a trade embargo on Anghele. Furthermore, we will be deploying a naval task force in international waters near Anghele to simply observe the situation.

Signed,

Martin Watson
President of Greal
Imperial Republic of Greal

The Incenerators Have Already Been Stopped.

OOC: Yeah, and all the people are now slaves of Ralkovia. Out of curiosity, what happens to prisoners now? When someone is arrested are they just shipped off to be a Ralkovian slave for the rest of their life?

OOC:Is so, then that would be almost as bad as what Anghele used to do, all depending on how Ralkovia treats them.
Anghele, I was wrong, I admit. I haven't been sleeping, and I get words confused alot. Sorry for the confusion, it's just the feeling I got was that nations were blockading your nation.
Martilia, please post anything concerning my assistance in the thread I made specifically for such. Please post said stuff Here. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=589323) Just don't want to clutter up this thread more than I already have.

OOC: Yeah, and all the people are now slaves of Ralkovia. Out of curiosity, what happens to prisoners now? When someone is arrested are they just shipped off to be a Ralkovian slave for the rest of their life?



No.They are prosecuted.That´s all.

If they are sentenced to death,then they will die.If not they´ll spend time in prison.

Thank you.

Official Anghele Government Letter

--

No.They are prosecuted.That´s all.

If they are sentenced to death,then they will die.If not they´ll spend time in prison.

Thank you.

OOC: Seriously, I know you're getting tired or hearing this and, believe me, we're getting tried of saying it, but here I go: LEARN TO DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN OOC AND IC MESSAGES.

For the umpteenth time, they have already stopped.

OOC: But the reviews of their cases haven't happened, so part 2 of the ASoGM's stipulations hasn't been met. Since Anghele shipped them all off to Ralkovia, it's doubtful part 2 of the ASoGM's conditions will ever be able to be met.

OOC: But the reviews of their cases haven't happened, so part 2 of the ASoGM's stipulations hasn't been met. Since Anghele shipped them all off to Ralkovia, it's doubtful part 2 of the ASoGM's conditions will ever be able to be met.

exactly why the embargoes have not been stopped.

exactly why the embargoes have not been stopped.

OOC: But the reviews of their cases haven't happened, so part 2 of the ASoGM's stipulations hasn't been met. Since Anghele shipped them all off to Ralkovia, it's doubtful part 2 of the ASoGM's conditions will ever be able to be met.

OOC: Oh,the horror.

OOC: Since the conditions have not been met, I see a good basis to go further with this.

IC:

Official Update from the Federation of Mewsland.

Amendment 31 is hereby struck out of law, as I was out of the country at the time, why my stamp was used, I have no idea. Also, the government has changed its tariffs. Only nations directly supporting Anghele's actions in any way, shape, or form will face the 175% tariff. The 200% tariff on the Grand World Order is still in effect, as is the embargo on Anghele. And, in other updates the Federation of Cukarica has issued an ultimatum to Mewsland, basically, a cease and desist order, complete with extra reparations to a nation which has nothing to do with Mewsland. I tell you: When it comes to Mewsland and these incidents, we will submit to nobody. That is why I am hereby declaring an embargo on the Federation of Cukarica.

Thank you,

ooc: I won't be lifting the embargo either at this time

OOC: For blast! Expand the embargo to Ralkovia for allowing Anghele to escape our conditions!

ooc: actually, I think I might do that

OOC: Do whatever you want, but make sure you realize that you don't represent the rest of the embargoing members.

OOC: You do realize I lead a global economic alliance. You declaring an embargo on me is like Kiribati declaring an embargo on Mongolia. My assets are confined to Association members only and by the way Bjorn and Co. which is a private company could buy out both takaram and mewsland, he owns a global wig and pet food company(Among many other things), now do you really want to be owned by a wig and pet food selling maniac. I would hope not.


[ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiribati ]

OOC: Takaram and Mewsland would not be for sale. They aren't for sale now, and I think I speak for both of us when I say they will NEVER be for sale. Mewsland has never even heard of Bjorn and Co.

OOC: Bjorn and co. is a 50 trillion dollar empire. The world likes wigs and pet food. With all these nukes flying looser than a skinny man in a fat mans pants the nuclear radiation has at least balded most of us and contaminated our food, except for Kambels dog food, 100% all natural chicken flavored dog food in lead packaging.

((OOC: Oh my, I've got a tiny nuked-out nation declaring 200% tariff on me.

Seriously, that's like Andorra boycotting the United States.))

OOC: Mewsland is NOT nuked out, and tell me how we are tiny when we are almost ONE-THIRD your size? It makes no sense.

OOC: Mewsland is NOT nuked out, and tell me how we are tiny when we are almost ONE-THIRD your size? It makes no sense.

((OOC: Salzland or Santheres or whoever nuked you last time I checked. I could probably fish up the thread.

Ok, fine, not a tiny nation. Still relatively small, but not tiny. Either way, I've got enough trade with my allies to overcome whatever minute losses I've received.

Also, EGWMC could purchase out Mewsland and Takaram, too. They've got a total net worth of something like 53 trillion, and form the second strongest entity in the GWO, next to the government itself.))

OOC: A whole different incident. Think! It's been 539 years!

OOC: Pretty sure it was Salz. Sounds like something he might have done. I don't nuke people, never have and likely never will, lacking nuclear weapons as I do.

OOC: A whole different incident. Think! It's been 140 years!

((OOC: 140 years? That would place us in PMT, possibly even FT. The world would be much different than it is on NS. We'd be launching lasers and crap at each other instead of lead slugs.

Whatever though. My point still stands.

Alright Santheres, thanks for clearing it up.))

Also, EGWMC could purchase out Mewsland and Takaram, too. They've got a total net worth of something like 53 trillion, and form the second strongest entity in the GWO, next to the government itself.))

ooc: Net worth of a country, or a company, is not the same as its GDP, or its revenues or profits, respectively. Even RL US, smaller than most NS nations as it is, has a net worth (well) higher than 53 trillion (much higher than its GDP for obvious reasons), and by the same token the company's purchasing power will be less than its net worth.

OOC: Mewsland is a FT nation! And my dates are all jumbled now.

IC: It actually happened over 500 years ago, in 2007. That was Old Mewsland, under the Meow administration. Mew Meow I was killed by his daughter in that incident, which created a massive war. The Mewsland Islands were nuked in 2019, which began the Prisoner Era. The few Mews that escaped were quickly found and held as POWs. Over three hundred years later, in 2337, one of the descendants of Mew Meow II changed their name to Mæow and set the events that would return Mewsland to the map in motion. Mew Mæow I was born in 2305, the Island Rebellion in 2396, and the Mewsland Incidents almost repeated in 2397, but we had it under control by 2406, when I was elected. I have held power for 140 years, and have been alive for almost 171. Do not ask me how, I have no idea. Think, if you had been alive for 171 years, what would you see your nation as?

IC: The Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union withdraws all trade embargos to Anghele and has changed its policy towards Anghele and the FSSU will now fully support Anghele on all level through millitary, political and economic means.

From: His Imperial and Serene Majesty, Michael VI of New Chalcedon.
To: All parties involved in the matter of the embargo of Anghele
Re: Actions.

To whom it may concern,

It has come to Our attention that certain events are taking place regarding the nation of Anghele. It is Our desire to enumerate the position of the Empire of New Chalcedon, as a friend and ally of the Armed Republic of the Wolf Hold and the Federation of Cukarica, clearly, that no further misunderstandings may rise in this matter. Therefore:

Firstly, let it be known that the Empire of New Chalcedon deplores the actions, past and present, of the government of Anghele. By vote of the Imperial Senate, the Empire of New Chalcedon is imposing an embargo on the nation of Anghele. All Imperial citizens and corporations are forbidden, on pain of the Senate's displeasure, from trading with said nation, its citizens, its nationals, or any corporate Body based in said nation, and We strongly encourage Our friends and allies to make a like policy.

Secondly, let it be known that the Empire of New Chalcedon does not approve of the coercive tactics used by the current proponents of an international embargo, namely, threatening punitive tarriffs on any nation that does not comply with such policy, despite Our support of such embargo. Such tactics violate the norms of diplomatic relations and destabilise the world as a whole, irrespective of any good intentions at their heart.

Thirdly, let it be known that any member-state of the Commonwealth of Independant Nations is a friend and ally of the Empire of New Chalcedon. As such, whilst we will attempt to persuade Our friends and allies to join Us in this embargo, We will not permit any nation to attempt to exert such pressure as described above on Our allied nations. Any attempts to do so will meet with Our immediate and severest displeasure.

We trust that this makes the position of the Empire clear, and would like to add a personal observation: When nations all opposed to atrocities fall to bickering, the perpetrators win.

In the spirit of reconciliation and goodwill, therefore, We encourage the leaders of the embargo effort to recant their efforts at coercion - freedom cannot be won by forcing others to fight for it, whether the fight be economic, social or military. Further, We strongly advise Our friends and allies, specifically the governing bodies of the Federation of Cukarica and the Armed Republic of the Wolf Hold, to freely join in such embargo, in the spirit of freedom and human rights.

We are not compelling Anghele, or any of her allies, to do anything at this stage. But if they wish to trade with other nations, then they must expect that they be required to refrain from outraging the moral sensibilities of those nations.

Given under Our hand and Seal,
this Ninth Day of April, in the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand and Nine,


Michael Iastos Basilios Doukas-Paliologos

Emperor and Lord of New Chalcedon,
Defender of the Realm,
Grand Duke of Constantinopolis Secundus,
Sixth of Our Imperial Name.

(OOC: I will also be posting this here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=589504), so that Cukarica and Wolf Hold are aware of the situation.)

(You do realize that the incinerations have stopped and that they have all been shipped over to me. )

To: His/Her Excellency, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union.
From: Helena Draskovic, Acting Secretary to the Crown.
Re: Change of stance.

Your Excellency,

The Empire of New Chalcedon strongly deplores your nation's change of stance. If such is due to threats from Anghele or their backers, the Empire is prepared to provide a security guarantee against aggression by such parties.

If it is due to bribes or trade inducements, then the Empire deplores the day that Communism, founded in response to human rights abuses, stoops to ignoring such abuses for petty financail gain, just like the caricature of capitalism, and declares the FSSU to have fallen from its principles.

Regards,

Helena Draskovic
Acting Secretary to the Crown.

OOC: According to you and Anghele, not exactle nations we'd ICly trust off the bat. I for one haven't seen a single independent report stating that says other than what we currently believe. So the embargo can reasonably stay until otherwise indicated. OOC knowledge =/= IC knowledge, as I'm sure you know.

(You do realize that the incinerations have stopped and that they have all been shipped over to me. )

And? That was the worst thing Anghele was doing, not the only objectionable one. Also, there is (as stated by BA) no proof or verification even of that. And in any case, slavery is almost as bad - you're lucky Allanea hasn't decided to get heavily involved.

I am not interested in an end to the progam por veritas los Angleses, as the saying goes.

(I find that hilarious. You do realize that slavery, well benevolent slavery, is about 100 times better than the wage slave system. Your only as free as your wallet is but of course this will turn into a FREE VS. SLAVE argument and we will all go away angry but it really has been verified. I have 25 million slaves and the anghele burnings have stopped)

(I find that hilarious. You do realize that slavery, well benevolent slavery, is about 100 times better than the wage slave system. Your only as free as your wallet is.)

*This is entirely OOC, as Ralkovia's post was (presumably) OOC also.*

I note three things:

1. Slavery is an evil far greater than the inequities of a capitalist system, far less a social-democratic capitalist system such as that of my nation, with safety nets, public education and healthcare etc etc.

2. You fail to address the other point entirely: verification that the furnaces have been shut down.

3. Nazis were put on trial for crimes against humanity for furnacing 6 million people (give or take). Anghele has, by their own admission, furnaced 25 million of its own citizens, many for simple political crimes.

Oh, and a fourth: There is no such thing as benevolent slavery. Slavery is evil, period. Outrage at it is a litmus test for basic decency - if the concept of one human being owning another fails to outrage you, then decency is something that is foreign to you. Don't bother to debate me on this one - my opinion is set, unlike most issues.

(I find that hilarious. You do realize that slavery, well benevolent slavery, is about 100 times better than the wage slave system. Your only as free as your wallet is but of course this will turn into a FREE VS. SLAVE argument and we will all go away angry but it really has been verified. I have 25 million slaves and the anghele burnings have stopped)

I'm not getting into a debate over slavery, if you want to drag it off that's fine - but I'm not biting, 'cause that's not the point of the thread. Again, we have no verifiable proof that the aforementioned has happened and asking us to remove the embargo is pointless and basically asking us to metagame.

*This is entirely OOC, as Ralkovia's post was (presumably) OOC also.*

I note three things:

1. Slavery is an evil far greater than the inequities of a capitalist system, far less a social-democratic capitalist system such as that of my nation, with safety nets, public education and healthcare etc etc.

2. You fail to address the other point entirely: verification that the furnaces have been shut down.

3. Nazis were put on trial for crimes against humanity for furnacing 6 million people (give or take). Anghele has, by their own admission, furnaced 25 million of its own citizens, many for simple political crimes.

Oh, and a fourth: There is no such thing as benevolent slavery. Slavery is evil, period. Outrage at it is a litmus test for basic decency - if the concept of one human being owning another fails to outrage you, then decency is something that is foreign to you. Don't bother to debate me on this one - my opinion is set, unlike most issues.


(You are entirely entitled to your own point of view. However number 3 is exactly why I offered an outrageous amount of money to buy the prisoners. I am Jewish and my grandfather was a holocaust survivor. He was actually the last survivor of the 20 Jews who escaped Maly Trostinec.

http://www.doew.at/projekte/holocaust/shoahengl/maly.html

My grandfather
http://magazine.orf.at/alpha/programm/2008/080326_ori.htm )

And? That was the worst thing Anghele was doing, not the only objectionable one. Also, there is (as stated by BA) no proof or verification even of that. And in any case, slavery is almost as bad - you're lucky Allanea hasn't decided to get heavily involved.

I am not interested in an end to the progam por veritas los Angleses, as the saying goes.

1. THe people in Ralkovia weren't enslaved per se. THey were put in prison etc. like ordinary criminals.

2. As part of my treaty with Anghele, I am not going to be going in and trashing everything just because he's not as libertarian as I am. Nobody is. I am satisfied that he's making an improvement.

1. THe people in Ralkovia weren't enslaved per se. THey were put in prison etc. like ordinary criminals.

2. As part of my treaty with Anghele, I am not going to be going in and trashing everything just because he's not as libertarian as I am. Nobody is. I am satisfied that he's making an improvement.

To the first, I am not so sure - he is defending the institution of slavery (and I seem to recall his engaging in it in the past), which makes his denial of engaging in it suspect. Although I understand his motives to get the prisoners out of the furnaces.

To the second, I am in full agreement - at least as far as policy goes. I am not convinced that Anghele is improving, but each nation enjoys the right to self-determination, which includes adopting forms of government that other nations find distasteful, without limitation.

However, as a sovereign nation, my nation also enjoys the right to self-determination. Including a refusal to trade with a country whose government outrages our principles. The only reason NC will invade someone is if they attack our allies. Period.

P.S. - Allanea, have you forgotten my Griffincrest thread? You haven't posted on it for a while. It's here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=587169)if you have, and still wish to participate.

To: His/Her Excellency, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Federation of the Serbian Soviet Union.
From: Helena Draskovic, Acting Secretary to the Crown.
Re: Change of stance.

Your Excellency,

The Empire of New Chalcedon strongly deplores your nation's change of stance. If such is due to threats from Anghele or their backers, the Empire is prepared to provide a security guarantee against aggression by such parties.

If it is due to bribes or trade inducements, then the Empire deplores the day that Communism, founded in response to human rights abuses, stoops to ignoring such abuses for petty financail gain, just like the caricature of capitalism, and declares the FSSU to have fallen from its principles.

Regards,

Helena Draskovic
Acting Secretary to the Crown.

We have changed our stance due to the fact that Mewsland has imposed a 170% tarrif on all nations who have traded with Anghele and those that currently are trading with Anghele also including majority of my allies and therefore the FSSU will be siding with the allies and taking the same policy as it's allies regarding this situation, if neccessary FSSU will provide all economic, political and millitary aid if it is neccessary or requested.

OOC:Serbian, this thread is over and done with I do beleive. Anghele stopped the furnaces, all the survivors were sold to Ralkovia, its over and done with lol. Sorry, but your a slight bit late for the party lol.

OOC:Serbian, this thread is over and done with I do beleive. Anghele stopped the furnaces, all the survivors were sold to Ralkovia, its over and done with lol. Sorry, but your a slight bit late for the party lol.

OOC: I think it's just the beginning. Sorry to burst your bubble. :)

*This is entirely OOC, as Ralkovia's post was (presumably) OOC also.*

I note three things:

1. Slavery is an evil far greater than the inequities of a capitalist system, far less a social-democratic capitalist system such as that of my nation, with safety nets, public education and healthcare etc etc.

2. You fail to address the other point entirely: verification that the furnaces have been shut down.

3. Nazis were put on trial for crimes against humanity for furnacing 6 million people (give or take). Anghele has, by their own admission, furnaced 25 million of its own citizens, many for simple political crimes.

Oh, and a fourth: There is no such thing as benevolent slavery. Slavery is evil, period. Outrage at it is a litmus test for basic decency - if the concept of one human being owning another fails to outrage you, then decency is something that is foreign to you. Don't bother to debate me on this one - my opinion is set, unlike most issues.

There is something that is called "Sovereignty", look it up in the dictionary.

ooc: are all the embaargoing nations still embargoing me? because i have completely severed all formal relations with anghele...

There is something that is called "Sovereignty", look it up in the dictionary.

OOC: Aside the fact that half of NS doesn't give a monkey's for sovereignty, may I also suggest you look up "Self-determination". As in, whilst Anghele and Ralkovia have the right to self-determine that they're going to burn/enslave/imprison millions, Adenia also has the right to self-determine whether it will embargo/invade/sling faecal matter at them.

There is something that is called "Sovereignty", look it up in the dictionary.

I'm a 4th-year International Relations student IRL - I daresay that I know a little more about it than you. For instance, I know that while it is theoretically absolute, in practice, its level of observance depends largely on how much power the state can bring to bear to defend its sovoerignty.

If sovereignty were an absolute, then the USA (among many, many nations) wouldn't exist today - their very existance was a successful challenge to the British Crown.

1. THe people in Ralkovia weren't enslaved per se. THey were put in prison etc. like ordinary criminals.

OOC: No, they were enslaved. Besides, our point that they were arrested for no real reason and now will be Ralkovian slaves for the rest of their natural born lives still remains. And no, Nachmere - the embargo doesn't apply to you anymore.

OOC: That's not what Anghele told me. Let's see what he says when he gets on.

Apparnetly there's been a misunderstanding:

[21:50] Allanea - Ron Paul 2008!: What exactly happened to the people you deported to Ralkovia?
[21:50] ANGHELE: Besides being enslaved by Ralkovia,nothing.
[21:50] ANGHELE: I believe that they´re all alive.
[21:50] Allanea - Ron Paul 2008!: so you actually gave away your people to be slaves?
[21:50] Allanea - Ron Paul 2008!: that's... uncool dude
[21:51] ANGHELE: They were sentenced to death.
[21:51] Allanea - Ron Paul 2008!: for crimes like jaywalking I hear
[21:51] ANGHELE: Nope.
[21:51] ANGHELE: Feeling.
[21:51] ANGHELE: It´s a crimelike murder.
[21:51] ANGHELE: At least in our nation.
[21:52] ANGHELE: It was feelings that lead to the Last Great War.
[21:52] Allanea - Ron Paul 2008!: ok I got it thanks
[21:52] ANGHELE: To the destruction of the old Anghele,by the hands of lunatic generals.
[21:52] ANGHELE: Who initiated a large scale nuclear warfare.
[21:52] ANGHELE: And ended up dead.
[21:53] Allanea - Ron Paul 2008!: May I quote this in the thread?
[21:53] ANGHELE: And killing millions with them.
[21:53] ANGHELE: Yes.
[21:53] Allanea - Ron Paul 2008!: OK

IC:

Official Announcement of the Office of President of the United States of Allanea

For a long while now, I have tolerated the evils of Anghele, because I have been told by their leadership that improvements were being made. That people were no longer executed for having – feelings. That the nation was working towards democracy and civil rights.

As the Allanean Foreign Service has given me its final reports on the state of Anghele, I am... disappointed. For I see that those men that had been spared their lives... have been sold to slavery in Ralkovia. Not for murder or rape. But for having emotions. The very feelings that form the core of human individuality.

I no longer see any hope for improvement in Anghele. Perhaps when their nation is invaded by ODECON, when Leistungi tanks park in their capital city, when Unkerlantian soldiers cleanse their society with flame and steel, then they will learn. And maybe not even then.

I hereby announce, with the authortiy granted to me by the People of Allanea and the charter of the Confederacy of Sovereign States, that Anghele is no longer a member in the alliance. The Anghelian soldiers in CSS service will be returned home – they are no longer worthy of dying under my command and bleeding upon allied soil.

I will not lift my sword against Anghele – because the United States is already engaged in warfare against several foes, and because I believe ODECON is capable of doing the job. I wish the forces of ODECON nothing but complete success in their international blockades, embargoes, or any invasions they may wish to mount against Anghele.

That is all.

Good night, people of Anghele.

May you wake up free.

And may God continue to bless Allanea.

ooc death for feelings, then Anghele may just nuke themself again as feelings are hard things not to have

[21:51] ANGHELE: Feeling.
[21:51] ANGHELE: It´s a crimelike murder.
[21:51] ANGHELE: At least in our nation.
[21:52] ANGHELE: It was feelings that lead to the Last Great War.
[21:52] Allanea - Ron Paul 2008!: ok I got it thanks
[21:52] ANGHELE: To the destruction of the old Anghele,by the hands of lunatic generals.
[21:52] ANGHELE: Who initiated a large scale nuclear warfare.

Might I point out that, firstly, Equilibrium is a bad film, and personally I would not go anywhere near its plot for inspiration. Secondly it does seem to me that it would be a lack of feeling that would lead to such dispassionate actions on the part of the Generals, making very little argument for the criminalisation of 'feeling' (I am presuming by 'feeling' you are actually meaning passion, expression of emotion, as everyone 'feels').

I'm a 4th-year International Relations student IRL - I daresay that I know a little more about it than you. For instance, I know that while it is theoretically absolute, in practice, its level of observance depends largely on how much power the state can bring to bear to defend its sovoerignty.

If sovereignty were an absolute, then the USA (among many, many nations) wouldn't exist today - their very existance was a successful challenge to the British Crown.

OOC: Speaking of self-determination, a nation should respect the other nations self-determination if your nation wishes for other nations to respect the self-determination of your people and your nation, then your nation must be ready to do the same. Self-Determination under no circumstances involve in imposing a nations will on another nation or imposing it's will in the world's community because all that will get you in the end is your nation being invaded by a group of other nations or a nuke being launched to your nation or an ignore cannon being fired at your nation.

Also speaking of the USA-Brittish War, USA declared it's independence and it is now an independent state, your nation is already a independent state that was founded, Anghele on the other hand is also an independent state that was founded, you cannot compare your nation to USA or Great Brittain as those two have nothing to do with your nation or to do with anything in this topic. My nation is prepared to help and aid Anghele in any form if the nation were to be invaded, i will be one to join my allies in defending what is right and to defend the rights to sovereignty by aiding Anghele in any form of Economic, Political or Millitary without any hessitations.

OOC: Cuba- embargoed by the U.S. It happens in real life. As I mentioned earlier, nations are free to decide whom they trade with, as well as whom they don't.

Even if you don't like it, embargoes are still a legitimate expression of foreign policy, and have been for decades.

OOC: Cuba- embargoed by the U.S. It happens in real life. As I mentioned earlier, nations are free to decide whom they trade with, as well as whom they don't.

Even if you don't like it, embargoes are still a legitimate expression of foreign policy, and have been for decades.

Also nations are free to decide what they want to do inside their territory and what goes on internally, what nations cannot do is infringe on another nations sovereignty.

OOC: Not really, no. In my experience, pretty much any large nation is fully capable of exercising (and frequently does exercise) the power to intervene in a smaller nation's affairs at will. Whether it's destroying a rogue state's nuclear weapons facilities, boarding slaving vessels or just flat-out going to war.

Call me a follower of the Realist paradigm of International Relations, but it's generally true that whichever countries hold the biggest sticks make the rules. The only absolute sovereignty that exists on NationStates is that which can be enforced.

OOC: Speaking of self-determination, a nation should respect the other nations self-determination if your nation wishes for other nations to respect the self-determination of your people and your nation, then your nation must be ready to do the same. Self-Determination under no circumstances involve in imposing a nations will on another nation or imposing it's will in the world's community because all that will get you in the end is your nation being invaded by a group of other nations or a nuke being launched to your nation or an ignore cannon being fired at your nation.

Also speaking of the USA-Brittish War, USA declared it's independence and it is now an independent state, your nation is already a independent state that was founded, Anghele on the other hand is also an independent state that was founded, you cannot compare your nation to USA or Great Brittain as those two have nothing to do with your nation or to do with anything in this topic. My nation is prepared to help and aid Anghele in any form if the nation were to be invaded, i will be one to join my allies in defending what is right and to defend the rights to sovereignty by aiding Anghele in any form of Economic, Political or Millitary without any hessitations.

As I said: you are theoretically correct. In practice, however, it depends on the levels of power various states can access in order to defend their sovereignties. And I was just bringing up the example of the USA/UK issue to illustrate the point that a state's sovereignty is constrained, in practical terms, by the power it can bring to bear.

I did *not* say, at any point, that my nation is analogous to the USA - it has its own (fictional) history, and its own character. I did *not* at any point state an intention to invade or otherwise attack Anghele - in fact, I stated just the opposite, if you'd bothered to pay attention. However, my nation has the right to order its citizens, merchants and corporations not to trade with a nation whose policies they find objectionable. Period. This is *not* a violation of Anghele's sovereignty, but a simple excercise of a widely-recognised sovereign right on my nation's part.

IC:

OPEN COMMUNICATION FROM THE DESK OF HIS IMPERIAL AND SERENE MAJESTY, MICHAEL VI OF NEW CHALCEDON.

Being as certain actors in the crisis involving the nation of Anghele have taken it upon themselves to defend that Nation's oppressive policies;

Also being as additional information has come to light regarding the abominable practice of slavery by and within the nation of Anghele;

LET IT BE KNOWN that the Crown reiterates the ban on trading with the nation of Anghele issued by the Imperial Senate;

FURTHER, let it be known that by decree of the Imperial Crown, with the advice and consent of the Estates, any corporate body wishing to trade in the Empire must either sever all ties to entities trading in or with Anghele; else seek special approval for such continuing ties from the Imperial Senate Committee on Trade and Commerce, as well as the Imperial Minister of Trade, without exception;

FURTHER, let it be known, by Imperial fiat, that a Bounty has been placed upon the person of any current member of the governing body of Anghele who is delivered to Imperial territory alive and fit to stand trial for their part in their nation's activities. This Bounty amounts to the sum of One Million Universal Standard Dollars for the persons of officials at least at the rank of Regional Minister, Army Colonel, or Naval Captain (or equivalent), Five Million Universal Standard Dollars for the persons of individuals of the rank of Regional Governor, Army Lieutenant-General, or Naval Commodore (or equivalent), and Ten Million Universal Standard Dollars for the person of any official of rank equivalent to national Minister, Army General, or Naval Admiral (or equivalent). Further, for the person of the Head of State of Anghele, alive and fit to stand trial, a Bounty of Twenty-Five Million Universal Standard Dollars is hereby proclaimed, with similar for the delivery of the person holding the rank of Head of Government of Anghele, should such rank exist within Anghele. All such Bounties are subject to verification of the identity of the accused, and of good faith on the part of the capturer;

FINALLY, let it be known that the nation of Anghele's many and varied deplorable practices, including but not limited to aforementioned slavery, have rendered all Anghele-flagged or Anghele-owned vessels, bank accounts, real estate or other assets forfeit within Imperial territory.

In My Own Hand,

Michael Iastos Basilios Doukas-Palaiologos,
Emperor and Lord of New Chalcedon.

OOC: Not really, no. In my experience, pretty much any large nation is fully capable of exercising (and frequently does exercise) the power to intervene in a smaller nation's affairs at will. Whether it's destroying a rogue state's nuclear weapons facilities, boarding slaving vessels or just flat-out going to war.

Call me a follower of the Realist paradigm of International Relations, but it's generally true that whichever countries hold the biggest sticks make the rules. The only absolute sovereignty that exists on NationStates is that which can be enforced.

OOC: Your seriously starting to sound like the USA sticking it's nose where it shouldnt, it doesnt matter of the size of your nation whether it's a huge nation or a small nation, no nation is allowed to world police and enforce it's will upon the world, no nation can do that and no nation should try to force it's will upon other nations, what nations do internally is not in the business of your nation or does it concern you at all.

There has been alot of confusion in terms of a "Rogue Nation" and what makes it a rogue nation and what is the definition of a rogue nation, a rogue nation to you is another stable nation exercising it's sovereign rights.

Sovereignty is not thrown alot these days and people such as yourself often forget about the word sovereignty and it's meaning.

OOC: Your seriously starting to sound like the USA sticking it's nose where it shouldnt, it doesnt matter of the size of your nation whether it's a huge nation or a small nation, no nation is allowed to world police and enforce it's will upon the world, no nation can do that and no nation should try to force it's will upon other nations, what nations do internally is not in the business of your nation or does it concern you at all.

There has been alot of confusion in terms of a "Rogue Nation" and what makes it a rogue nation and what is the definition of a rogue nation, a rogue nation to you is another stable nation exercising it's sovereign rights.

Sovereignty is not thrown alot these days and people such as yourself often forget about the word sovereignty and it's meaning.

OOC: It's thinking like that that let Nazi Germany murder 6 million - when you start incinerating citizens on a whim, national sovereignty goes out the window. You speak English and not German because we decided that Nazi Germany's national sovereignty came second to the rights of the people in death camps - this situation, as far as my nation is concerned, is no different.

OOC: It's thinking like that that let Nazi Germany murder 6 million - when you start incinerating citizens on a whim, national sovereignty goes out the window. You speak English and not German because we decided that Nazi Germany's national sovereignty came second to the rights of the people in death camps - this situation, as far as my nation is concerned, is no different.

You cannot compare any of this to Nazi Germany and Anghele cannot be compared to Nazi Germany, comparing something to Nazi Germany is like comparing oranges and apples.

What Anghele is doing is not murdering all of it's citizens or putting them up for human trafficing and trade. Actually quite the opposite, there is nothing wrong with transfering a group of prisoners from one state to another, Great Brittain did this and sent all of it's convicts to Australia and did any of the convicts get murdered?? Did Great Brittain as a result lost it's sovereignty ?? No. Stop spreading propaganda and trying to use Nazi Germany as a reason to justify your actions as an excuse to invade another nation or to try impose it's will on the nation and an excuse to control other nations what they can or cant do.

OOC: Your seriously starting to sound like the USA sticking it's nose where it shouldnt, it doesnt matter of the size of your nation whether it's a huge nation or a small nation, no nation is allowed to world police and enforce it's will upon the world, no nation can do that and no nation should try to force it's will upon other nations, what nations do internally is not in the business of your nation or does it concern you at all.

There has been alot of confusion in terms of a "Rogue Nation" and what makes it a rogue nation and what is the definition of a rogue nation, a rogue nation to you is another stable nation exercising it's sovereign rights.

Sovereignty is not thrown alot these days and people such as yourself often forget about the word sovereignty and it's meaning.

OOC: If you don't like it being done, then stop it. Because, unfortunately for you, the entire premise of International Incidents is the ability to influence, intervene and otherwise participate in incidents which can be labelled as the "sovereign" affairs of a foreign state. The very fundamentals of this forum are nations interacting between each other. By participating here, in effect, every nation agrees to a potential loss of "absolute sovereignty" in its affairs. Just like in the real world.

I'm perfectly aware of what 'sovereignty' means, to me at least, as a veteran of many debates in the "World Assembly" thread. Like I mentioned previously, in my opinion it extends as far as can be enforced. You're perfectly within your rights to disagree. My definition, however, is based on my observations of the NationStates world which is why, for example, a small nation putting its people into death camps is likely to be visited by the militaries of several foreign nations, while a large country (with several large allies) will be permitted to do basically whatever it wants.

To summarize, I suppose, I would say that yes, in an international system nations can function as "world police," if they retain the economic, military and political strength to enforce their will on this game. That's how NationStates' International Incidents forum works, and that's how the real world has worked for well over one thousand years.

OOC: If you don't like it being done, then stop it. Because, unfortunately for you, the entire premise of International Incidents is the ability to influence, intervene and otherwise participate in incidents which can be labelled as the "sovereign" affairs of a foreign state. The very fundamentals of this forum are nations interacting between each other. By participating here, in effect, every nation agrees to a potential loss of "absolute sovereignty" in its affairs. Just like in the real world.

I'm perfectly aware of what 'sovereignty' means, to me at least, as a veteran of many debates in the "World Assembly" thread. Like I mentioned previously, in my opinion it extends as far as can be enforced. You're perfectly within your rights to disagree. My definition, however, is based on my observations of the NationStates world which is why, for example, a small nation putting its people into death camps is likely to be visited by the militaries of several foreign nations, while a large country (with several large allies) will be permitted to do basically whatever it wants.

To summarize, I suppose, I would say that yes, in an international system nations can function as "world police," if they retain the economic, military and political strength to enforce their will on this game. That's how NationStates' International Incidents forum works, and that's how the real world has worked for well over one thousand years.

OOC: No matter how big the millitary is in terms of quantity or quality, no nation in the world can never world police as it is physically impossible, one nation cannot control over 50,000 nations on here and no nation has ever succeeded in imposing it's will on the entire world, according to the NS tracker, your millitary is only at 9 trillion where as my other nation Nova Srbija has the capacity of almost 8 trillion dollars in the defense budget, there are over thousands of nations who's defense budget is upto 50-60 trillion USD, not to mention Law and Order, and also if needed, a nation can also practice it's rights by firing the ignore cannon leaving your nation with nothing, that it cannot do no harm what so ever to the other nation.

If you want my advice, stop acting like USA and for once concentrate on your own nation and mind your own business instead of trying to boss other nations around. I on Nova Srbija have been around on NS for over 5 years and i am also a veteran.

There is nothing to support your argument or any logical explaination from apart what you stated that you are the bigger nation and the bigger nations can boss smaller nations around as it wishes.

You cannot compare any of this to Nazi Germany and Anghele cannot be compared to Nazi Germany, comparing something to Nazi Germany is like comparing oranges and apples.

What Anghele is doing is not murdering all of it's citizens or putting them up for human trafficing and trade. Actually quite the opposite, there is nothing wrong with transfering a group of prisoners from one state to another, Great Brittain did this and sent all of it's convicts to Australia and did any of the convicts get murdered?? Did Great Brittain as a result lost it's sovereignty ?? No. Stop spreading propaganda and trying to use Nazi Germany as a reason to justify your actions as an excuse to invade another nation or to try impose it's will on the nation and an excuse to control other nations what they can or cant do.

OOC: I cannot compare incinerating 6 million people because of their religion and incinerating 25 million political opponents? Fine, we'll compare it to the gulags then, seeing as they're being shipped to different corners of the world to work as slaves in Ralkovia. That better?

Can I remind you that no nation has ACTUALLY received independent IC confirmation that the incinerations have stopped? Seriously, stop asking us to metagame - if you don't like what my nation is doing, or any nation, you're welcome to try your luck at stopping it.

OOC: I cannot compare incinerating 6 million people because of their religion and incinerating 25 million political opponents? Fine, we'll compare it to the gulags then, seeing as they're being shipped to different corners of the world to work as slaves in Ralkovia. That better?

Can I remind you that no nation has ACTUALLY received independent IC confirmation that the incinerations have stopped? Seriously, stop asking us to metagame - if you don't like what my nation is doing, or any nation, you're welcome to try your luck at stopping it.

You failed to address all of the post that you quoted in your last post and also you failed to present a logical explaination for your nation to intervene in another nations internal affair, you seem to be forgetting that many nations in the world still have the death penalty system intact and if these people are dangerious that had killed or raped many people and there is no chance of rehabilitation, then those that killed and caused missery to other people deserve to be locked for life, put into slave labor or yet put to death.

There are already millitary prisons which prisoners are forced to work everyday and night, 18 hours a day and the only sleep they get is between 4-6 hours. If these people committed crimes against humanity as such then these people deserve to suffer the same faith as what they given to those.

You failed to address all of the post that you quoted in your last post and also you failed to present a logical explaination for your nation to intervene in another nations internal affair, you seem to be forgetting that many nations in the world still have the death penalty system intact and if these people are dangerious that had killed or raped many people and there is no chance of rehabilitation, then those that killed and caused missery to other people deserve to be locked for life, put into slave labor or yet put to death.

There are already millitary prisons which prisoners are forced to work everyday and night, 18 hours a day and the only sleep they get is between 4-6 hours. If these people committed crimes against humanity as such then these people deserve to suffer the same faith as what they given to those.

You fail to address the difference between 25,000,000 political opponents, and indeed in this case people who show emotion, being incinerated alive and 2murderers being gassed. One is accepted as a form of punishment compatible with "an eye for an eye". Oddly, the other is considered genocide.

Why is it that both are considered acceptable by your nation, and that your nation should overrule my nation's self-determination to act to stop fundamental breaches of human rights? Isn't that a breach of Adenia's sovereignty?

OOC: No matter how big the millitary is in terms of quantity or quality, no nation in the world can never world police as it is physically impossible, one nation cannot control over 50,000 nations on here and no nation has ever succeeded in imposing it's will on the entire world, according to the NS tracker, your millitary is only at 9 trillion where as my other nation Nova Srbija has the capacity of almost 8 trillion dollars in the defense budget, there are over thousands of nations who's defense budget is upto 50-60 trillion USD, not to mention Law and Order, and also if needed, a nation can also practice it's rights by firing the ignore cannon leaving your nation with nothing, that it cannot do no harm what so ever to the other nation.

If you want my advice, stop acting like USA and for once concentrate on your own nation and mind your own business instead of trying to boss other nations around. I on Nova Srbija have been around on NS for over 5 years and i am also a veteran.

There is nothing to support your argument or any logical explaination from apart what you stated that you are the bigger nation and the bigger nations can boss smaller nations around as it wishes.

Alexander the Great took a pretty good crack at exerting himself in the world. So did the Romans, the Mongols, the Russians, the British and now the United States, along with probably dozens of other super-power states that have sprung up over the course of recorded human history that I can't think of off the top of my head. Let me reiterate that this is how international relations works. If it weren't for the strong establishing the "rules" for international relations there would be no United Nations (established by the Allied Powers following their victory in World War II), there would be no international law (and I'm not talking UN Resolution crap, I'm talking about laws such as diplomatic immunity for ambassadors, etcetera), and frankly the entire human race would be bound into a Hobbes-ian state where sovereignty would rest solely on the individual and no laws of any kind would be created and enforced. An anarchy, if you will.

As I already mentioned, participation on the International Incidents forum is acceptance to a limitation of national sovereignty. If you don't want other countries to intervene in your nation, then don't post here. Because sovereignty stops when it cannot be enforced.

And if you're willing to role-play Nova Srbija as having an $8 Trillion Defense budget, then I hope you're also willing to role-play spending $4,000 per citizen in that nation for food, clothing, heating, housing and other necessities of life. Unless you're using your 100% tax rate solely to puff up your military numbers, and aren't willing to accept the consequences of a society in which 49% of your nation's entire GDP is invested either in the military or police sectors. And if you really want to puppet wank, my puppets can beat up yours.

As for the Ignore Cannon, of course it can be used, because this is ultimately a game. Ignoring anyone who interacts with your nation in a way that you dislike, such as anyone breaching your "sovereignty," will find you with a very, very short list of individuals willing to play with you however. Which is, again, why participation in International Incidents is a contract between nations agreeing to a limitation on sovereignty. If there was no limitation of sovereignty, every thread on here would be a one-post topic where a nation would do something, and every other nation on here would sit back, nod and say "Mmm, yes. Very good."

Like it or not, the world exists in a state where strong nations can, do, and have repeatedly left their mark on the entire world. From NATO beating down the Serbs when they decided it would be a great idea to start killing Croats and Bosnians, to Napoleon consolidating the German principalities from hundreds down to thirty, to the Romans running all over the Gauls. All of these examples would've fallen under your definition of "sovereignty," and they all stand as proof of my belief that sovereignty exists only as far as it can be enforced.

You fail to address the difference between 25,000,000 political opponents, and indeed in this case people who show emotion, being incinerated alive and 2murderers being gassed. One is accepted as a form of punishment compatible with "an eye for an eye". Oddly, the other is considered genocide.

Why is it that both are considered acceptable by your nation, and that your nation should overrule my nation's self-determination to act to stop fundamental breaches of human rights? Isn't that a breach of Adenia's sovereignty?

What your nation does inside your nation is strictly none of my business but when your nation infringes the sovereignty of another nation becomes my concern. Self-determination will always be respected as it is the will of it's population and the nation to what they decide internally what to do inside their nation, however self-determination goes only so far inside the nation, self-determination can never be used in any form of justification to infringe on another nations sovereignty such as what your nation is attempting to do, what your nation is doing is trying to abstructing another nations the rights to self determination by allowing a nation what to do with it's prisoners which include rapists and killers, if these people deserve the death penalty then they will receive it, you only respond to bits and pieces of my post ignoring the rest of my posts and ignoring all the arguments and facts presented to you.

However, according to the NS tracker, even if your nation was to try to declare war on Anghele, his millitary is about 100 times the size of your millitary and your nation would be defeated within 24-48 hours,

Also to answer your question, it is none of your business as to why or why isnt both methods acceptable to my nation and inside my nation, secondly you obviously need to do some research on the word sovereignty as you obviously do not know the meaning of it as the word sovereignty hasnt been mentioned to you for a very long time or ever.

OOC: Don't mean to be picky (I enjoy history) but the United Nations were formed around 1942. It was created to discuss the formation of the world after WW2 ended. Nevertheless, their height was during the Cold War and they're doing pretty good.

Now I'll leave you blokes/girls in peace.

OOC: Don't mean to be picky (I enjoy history) but the United Nations were formed around 1942. It was created to discuss the formation of the world after WW2 ended. Nevertheless, their height was during the Cold War and they're doing pretty good.

Now I'll leave you blokes/girls in peace.

OOC: Recognizing that at several points the Allied Powers during World War II refered to themselves as the "United Nations," my reference was solely to the organization which was officially established via the signing and ratification of the United Nations Charter in October of 1945.

Edited to add that I'm out for lunch, back in an hour. BA, take over for me please ;)

What your nation does inside your nation is strictly none of my business but when your nation infringes the sovereignty of another nation becomes my concern. Self-determination will always be respected as it is the will of it's population and the nation to what they decide internally what to do inside their nation, however self-determination goes only so far inside the nation, self-determination can never be used in any form of justification to infringe on another nations sovereignty such as what your nation is attempting to do, what your nation is doing is trying to abstructing another nations the rights to self determination by allowing a nation what to do with it's prisoners which include rapists and killers, if these people deserve the death penalty then they will receive it, you only respond to bits and pieces of my post ignoring the rest of my posts and ignoring all the arguments and facts presented to you.

However, according to the NS tracker, even if your nation was to try to declare war on Anghele, his millitary is about 100 times the size of your millitary and your nation would be defeated within 24-48 hours,

Also to answer your question, it is none of your business as to why or why isnt both methods acceptable to my nation and inside my nation, secondly you obviously need to do some research on the word sovereignty as you obviously do not know the meaning of it as the word sovereignty hasnt been mentioned to you for a very long time or ever.

OOC: And? My intention isn't to declare war on him, and even if I did, those numbers count for squat as my nation is RPed differently - in a way that requires diplomacy and a little bit of forethought as to what I do. However, what he is doing in his nation I have MADE my business on the basis that my nation believes that all humans have fundamental rights that should be respected - and being incinerated precisely for the reason being human goes against one of those rights.

The fact is, the entire world would be outraged if a nation began executing it's citizens for "having feelings", and quite rightly. Guess what - in the real world, they'd likely find a large portion of their nation under the control of a foreign military. Funnily, NS isn't much different. He's killing 25million people on a whim, added to the fact that he is in fact a dictatorship means that it cannot be by your definition self-determination (and I quote "will of it's population"), therefore meaning that cannot be used as a defence.

OOC: Recognizing that at several points the Allied Powers during World War II refered to themselves as the "United Nations," my reference was solely to the organization which was officially established via the signing and ratification of the United Nations Charter in October of 1945.

Edited to add that I'm out for lunch, back in an hour. BA, take over for me please ;)


OOC: Let's leave the discussion at that then.

Alexander the Great took a pretty good crack at exerting himself in the world. So did the Romans, the Mongols, the Russians, the British and now the United States, along with probably dozens of other super-power states that have sprung up over the course of recorded human history that I can't think of off the top of my head. Let me reiterate that this is how international relations works. If it weren't for the strong establishing the "rules" for international relations there would be no United Nations (established by the Allied Powers following their victory in World War II), there would be no international law (and I'm not talking UN Resolution crap, I'm talking about laws such as diplomatic immunity for ambassadors, etcetera), and frankly the entire human race would be bound into a Hobbes-ian state where sovereignty would rest solely on the individual and no laws of any kind would be created and enforced. An anarchy, if you will.

Firstly, all those that you mentioned are dated back in the middle ages BC and AC, also are dated back in the 1800's all the way to 1945, in 1949 the United Nations were formed, as a result of that, international laws have been created inorder to protect individual nations and laws in allowing nations to practice their sovereign rights and international laws also included in the UN charters to prevent nations such as yours from infringing another nations sovereignty and by banning all form of world policing the world and by imposing all of it's will upon the world in which your nation is trying to do.

Secondly, refering to Anghele, all of it's citizens have plenty of civil rights, there are plenty of civil rights to an extent and then there are laws which citizens must follow, depending on the crime the individual has committed, an appropriate form of punishment will happen to that individual, however if that person has killed, mass killed or raped another person or group of people, the person must be punished whether it's sent to life in prison, slave labor or the death penalthy, murderers and rapers do not deserve human rights once infringing another human rights to live and the rights to dignity which means that the person has forfetted all form of his human rights and his rights to live.

As I already mentioned, participation on the International Incidents forum is acceptance to a limitation of national sovereignty. If you don't want other countries to intervene in your nation, then don't post here. Because sovereignty stops when it cannot be enforced.

This is not an argument and there is no logical explaination or anything to support your argument and there is no argument that you presented which gives you the rights to limit a nations sovereignty, any nation is allowed to post what he or she wishes to role play, which is why there are rules made for which the person can create a rule that can either be opened/semi opened, closed or semi closed or invites only, the rule that prevents your nation from butting in, which is something you need to respect.

As for the Ignore Cannon, of course it can be used, because this is ultimately a game. Ignoring anyone who interacts with your nation in a way that you dislike, such as anyone breaching your "sovereignty," will find you with a very, very short list of individuals willing to play with you however. Which is, again, why participation in International Incidents is a contract between nations agreeing to a limitation on sovereignty. If there was no limitation of sovereignty, every thread on here would be a one-post topic where a nation would do something, and every other nation on here would sit back, nod and say "Mmm, yes. Very good."

Your partially right there and i agree with you partially but you also need to consider that not all nations wishes to role play with you either unless you were to contact the person and organise something, come up with a role play story and then role play in the forums, but like this it will only bring frustration, hostility, arguments and at the end ignore cannons being fired. However, it would also be boring if there weren't any wars, interventions etc... As then nationstates would end up dying and it wouldn't be interesting anymore but what i think and this is my opinion only, is to allow nations to grow, allow them to grow to a point so then in the future, if your nation decides to declare war on that particular nation, that the nation has already organised a sufficient millitary, gainning the skills to role play properly and allowing for some challenge, where as like this, your nation can take over any new and small nations within a day or two and that would be boring and in some cases the only way of saving themselves is to ignore.

Like it or not, the world exists in a state where strong nations can, do, and have repeatedly left their mark on the entire world. From NATO beating down the Serbs when they decided it would be a great idea to start killing Croats and Bosnians, to Napoleon consolidating the German principalities from hundreds down to thirty, to the Romans running all over the Gauls. All of these examples would've fallen under your definition of "sovereignty," and they all stand as proof of my belief that sovereignty exists only as far as it can be enforced.

There is no such thing as to one side to commit genocide, mass kill or to ethnically cleanse a group, as these crimes are very often committed by both sides of the conflict, and force isn't the only weapon as there are also physological warfare, propaganda warfare, winning the battle or winning the war through force does not neccessarily mean that you won the war, at the end it all matters of winning the media war as to wish side will pay the media more money inorder to take the side, to potray one side as the victims and the other side as genocidal maniacs, at the end, the Bosnians and Croats won the media war, on the other hand the Serbs lost the media war, NATO and the US intervened in favor of the Croats and Bosnians.

At the end it doesn't matter about the capacity of the millitary and how many battles you've won, all it matters is about winning the media war and about money.

Today plenty wars are faught for money and power and using the media as a huge part in helping the one and the other side in winning the war.

OOC: And? My intention isn't to declare war on him, and even if I did, those numbers count for squat as my nation is RPed differently - in a way that requires diplomacy and a little bit of forethought as to what I do. However, what he is doing in his nation I have MADE my business on the basis that my nation believes that all humans have fundamental rights that should be respected - and being incinerated precisely for the reason being human goes against one of those rights.

The fact is, the entire world would be outraged if a nation began executing it's citizens for "having feelings", and quite rightly. Guess what - in the real world, they'd likely find a large portion of their nation under the control of a foreign military. Funnily, NS isn't much different. He's killing 25million people on a whim, added to the fact that he is in fact a dictatorship means that it cannot be by your definition self-determination (and I quote "will of it's population"), therefore meaning that cannot be used as a defence.


You also cannot use it as a justification in declaring wars on other nations, also if these 25 million people are in prison because they murdered a person or a group of people, then why should they still be allowed to enjoy their human rights??

Also i want to ask you if a nation was to announce that they are building nuclear, biological and chemical warfare weapons, will your nation in anyway intervene??

You also cannot use it as a justification in declaring wars on other nations, also if these 25 million people are in prison because they murdered a person or a group of people, then why should they still be allowed to enjoy their human rights??

Also i want to ask you if a nation was to announce that they are building nuclear, biological and chemical warfare weapons, will your nation in anyway intervene??

OOC: WUT? Have you actually read this thread yet? They're not in prison or being incinerated for murder. They're being executed for having feelings. There's a slight difference between being a normal, emotive human and being a homicidal maniac. He's executing the former, not the latter.

In answer to the second, why would I intervene? Building chemical weapons in no way even comes close to executing a large portion of your populace for having the sheer gall to show sadness, anger, or happiness.

OOC: WUT? Have you actually read this thread yet? They're not in prison or being incinerated for murder. They're being executed for having feelings. There's a slight difference between being a normal, emotive human and being a homicidal maniac. He's executing the former, not the latter.

In answer to the second, why would I intervene? Building chemical weapons in no way even comes close to executing a large portion of your populace for having the sheer gall to show sadness, anger, or happiness.

Nobody knows the reason to why these people are in prisons but these people who are in prisons obviously committed one of the worst attrocities and inhuman crimes and therefore are receiving this form of punishment, as stated by leistung, also leistung being over-exergerating and throwing all these accusations without proper evidents proving that Anghele is imprisoning people for having feelings as what you are stating in your post.

Apparnetly there's been a misunderstanding:



IC:

Official Announcement of the Office of President of the United States of Allanea

For a long while now, I have tolerated the evils of Anghele, because I have been told by their leadership that improvements were being made. That people were no longer executed for having – feelings. That the nation was working towards democracy and civil rights.

As the Allanean Foreign Service has given me its final reports on the state of Anghele, I am... disappointed. For I see that those men that had been spared their lives... have been sold to slavery in Ralkovia. Not for murder or rape. But for having emotions. The very feelings that form the core of human individuality.

I no longer see any hope for improvement in Anghele. Perhaps when their nation is invaded by ODECON, when Leistungi tanks park in their capital city, when Unkerlantian soldiers cleanse their society with flame and steel, then they will learn. And maybe not even then.

I hereby announce, with the authortiy granted to me by the People of Allanea and the charter of the Confederacy of Sovereign States, that Anghele is no longer a member in the alliance. The Anghelian soldiers in CSS service will be returned home – they are no longer worthy of dying under my command and bleeding upon allied soil.

I will not lift my sword against Anghele – because the United States is already engaged in warfare against several foes, and because I believe ODECON is capable of doing the job. I wish the forces of ODECON nothing but complete success in their international blockades, embargoes, or any invasions they may wish to mount against Anghele.

That is all.

Good night, people of Anghele.

May you wake up free.

And may God continue to bless Allanea.

OOC: Yes, I do know what they're being imprisoned for. That is as independent a view as there is in a situation like this.

OOC: I do not believe this to be all black and white as there are reasons for why these people have been put to prison and why these harsh punishments are being introduced, and if these people committed inhuman crimes, then they deserve what they get if ordinary citizens are being put through this then that is another story and FSSU has no reasons to believe that Anghele is violating human rights in Anghele.

Alexander the Great took a pretty good crack at exerting himself in the world. So did the Romans, the Mongols, the Russians, the British and now the United States, along with probably dozens of other super-power states that have sprung up over the course of recorded human history that I can't think of off the top of my head. Let me reiterate that this is how international relations works. If it weren't for the strong establishing the "rules" for international relations there would be no United Nations (established by the Allied Powers following their victory in World War II), there would be no international law (and I'm not talking UN Resolution crap, I'm talking about laws such as diplomatic immunity for ambassadors, etcetera), and frankly the entire human race would be bound into a Hobbes-ian state where sovereignty would rest solely on the individual and no laws of any kind would be created and enforced. An anarchy, if you will.

As I already mentioned, participation on the International Incidents forum is acceptance to a limitation of national sovereignty. If you don't want other countries to intervene in your nation, then don't post here. Because sovereignty stops when it cannot be enforced.

And if you're willing to role-play Nova Srbija as having an $8 Trillion Defense budget, then I hope you're also willing to role-play spending $4,000 per citizen in that nation for food, clothing, heating, housing and other necessities of life. Unless you're using your 100% tax rate solely to puff up your military numbers, and aren't willing to accept the consequences of a society in which 49% of your nation's entire GDP is invested either in the military or police sectors. And if you really want to puppet wank, my puppets can beat up yours.

As for the Ignore Cannon, of course it can be used, because this is ultimately a game. Ignoring anyone who interacts with your nation in a way that you dislike, such as anyone breaching your "sovereignty," will find you with a very, very short list of individuals willing to play with you however. Which is, again, why participation in International Incidents is a contract between nations agreeing to a limitation on sovereignty. If there was no limitation of sovereignty, every thread on here would be a one-post topic where a nation would do something, and every other nation on here would sit back, nod and say "Mmm, yes. Very good."

Like it or not, the world exists in a state where strong nations can, do, and have repeatedly left their mark on the entire world. From NATO beating down the Serbs when they decided it would be a great idea to start killing Croats and Bosnians, to Napoleon consolidating the German principalities from hundreds down to thirty, to the Romans running all over the Gauls. All of these examples would've fallen under your definition of "sovereignty," and they all stand as proof of my belief that sovereignty exists only as far as it can be enforced.

Salzland, well said. I totally agree with your position - by taking part in interaction between nations, any nation is accepting an inherent limitation on its sovereignty - namely, that from that point forth, its sovereignty will only extend as far as its power (of both the 'hard' and 'soft' varieties) can support it.

Also - FSSU? I've checked the NSEconomy and NSTracker economic calculators, your (presumed) puppet, Nova Srbija, has a defense budget of approximately $7.7 trn, and you have a defense budget of $1.2trn, which, added together, indeed make up the $9trn that you claim.

But if you want to get nasty about budgets, kindly remember that my military budget is $14trn. Budgets are a guideline to you, as a RPer, about the kind of military your nation can afford. They are not hard-and-fast rules, and they are not a stick with which to beat other players over the head.

Also, regarding:

You cannot compare any of this to Nazi Germany and Anghele cannot be compared to Nazi Germany, comparing something to Nazi Germany is like comparing oranges and apples.

What Anghele is doing is not murdering all of it's citizens or putting them up for human trafficing and trade. Actually quite the opposite, there is nothing wrong with transfering a group of prisoners from one state to another, Great Brittain did this and sent all of it's convicts to Australia and did any of the convicts get murdered?? Did Great Brittain as a result lost it's sovereignty ?? No. Stop spreading propaganda and trying to use Nazi Germany as a reason to justify your actions as an excuse to invade another nation or to try impose it's will on the nation and an excuse to control other nations what they can or cant do.

Speaking as an Australian with some education (high school and two units at university level) in Australian History, I can tell you that you are way offbase here, for several reasons:

1. The total number of forced emigrants (transportees, they were called) came to 165,000 - not a small number, but even in the context of Britain's population, hardly equivalent to Anghele's 25 million.

2. The convicts were typically transported for theft or political causes, not for the 'crime' of having feelings and emotions. (Mind you, the sentences were still ridiculously heavy, given the crimes, but that's addressed in my next point.)

3. The international norms of the times were quite different from the norms of today. Then, forced migration was commonplace - each of the European empires engaged in it to a greater or lesser extent, so none of them were particularly willing to condemn the others for doing it. However, under today's norms, it is a grave crime which will draw the immediate and negative attention of the world.

4. It wasn't slavery. The terms of transportation was that the sentenced would remain a convict for either 7 or 14 years, after which point they were free to do anything they wanted, except return to England. Also, in practice, few convicts actually served out their terms - the Governors of the Australian colonies had enormous discretion about issuing conditional pardons and tickets-of-leave, and tended to make use of it.

5. Australia was not a separate sovereign nation to England - the United Kingdom had total jurisdiction over Australia, which was considered sovereign British territory. Therefore, sending the convicts there was no different from the United States sending Federal prisoners from New York to New Mexico - or Alaska. As opposed (for instance) to selling them to Russia or China.

In short: When you wish to discuss history, you are well within your rights to do so. However, unless you want to look like an idiot, I suggest that you do your research, lest someone like me (who has lived in the relevant place all my life, and learned of its history from the POV of someone who actually considers it important) comes along and points out your glaring logical/factual errors.

Also, I call thread hijack - this thread is about Anghele, not FSSU.

OOC: I do not believe this to be all black and white as there are reasons for why these people have been put to prison and why these harsh punishments are being introduced, and if these people committed inhuman crimes, then they deserve what they get if ordinary citizens are being put through this then that is another story and FSSU has no reasons to believe that Anghele is violating human rights in Anghele.

OOC: It is that black and white, Anghele said so himself. And Adenia does have reason to believe that Anghele is violating human rights, so we're going to take action against it. Rather simple really.

Also, I call thread hijack - this thread is about Anghele, not FSSU.

OOC: I don't believe this to be a thread hijack but only to express my say into this matter and also joining my allies into defending Anghele aswell as defending my nation by exercising my sovereign rights, if we allow a group of nations to infringe on another nations sovereignty, what will stop them from doing it to another nation?? What will stop them from infringing on FSSU sovereignty??

OOC: I don't believe this to be a thread hijack but only to express my say into this matter and also joining my allies into defending Anghele aswell as defending my nation by exercising my sovereign rights, if we allow a group of nations to infringe on another nations sovereignty, what will stop them from doing it to another nation?? What will stop them from infringing on FSSU sovereignty??

Absolutely nothing except your diplomatic and (if needs be) military skills.

Welcome to International Relations.