NationStates Jolt Archive

The benevolent and sometimes treacherous Corporate Alliance (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=491242) does hereby call into order an open Question/Answer session to dispell any misconceptions held by prospective members and address any grievances the international community may have.

All are welcome and encouraged to participate in this stimulating event.
*Representatives of the People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts will be tazed on sight. You have been warned.

A muscle bound man of otherwise average characteristics though lighter than someone from Deserted Territories (so, plain white) sat at a large conference table up front behind a hot dog-wise folded three foot long piece of white cardstock with 'The Sacrosant Un-Holy Sultanate of Deserted Territories' printed on it in big, bold letters. Next to him was a similar name card that read 'The Blackhelm Confederacy' and next to that one that read 'The Griffencrest Corporation.' Perhaps by some mistake, there was only one chair positioned betwixt the two of them. The rest of the table was filled with seats and name cards for whichever members of the CA that decided to show up.

The conference was being held at the diplomatic convention center in Land's End, a northern territory of DT. As the last foreign representative took his/her/both/its (humans only--actually that's not quite acurate...) seat, the man stood to talk:

Welcome, one and all, former enemy, current enemy, prospective member, prospective enemy, prospective invadee, and prospective invader to this mornings event, The Airing of Grievances: A CA Q&A. I am Ian Strongman, CEO and founder of Deserted Territories Land Reclamation Services (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=496093) and have been invited by the Sultan to represent the Deserted Territories today. Over the course of today's events I and my associates in the Corporate Alliance hope to win over a few of you who are otherwise misguided as to our reputation and assure those of you who are beyond hope that we are just in it for good, clean capitalism.

Before I open up the floor to a preliminary round of Q&A so you can all gather your notes, I'd like to remind you all of the contents of the conference package you recieved when you signed in.

If you'll open your packages now and follow along, your first item is a Corporate Alliance Collector's mug for our mid-morning brunch. There are also a few Griffencrest pens in case you forgot your's, a pad of paper with a watermark of our unofficial motto "~Got Oil?~" and a commemerative hat/T-shirt combo sporting the name, date, and location of the conference and on the back of the T-shirt a list of the attending nations.

You'll also find a one time use tazer in the event you spy a representative of the People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts. But be warned about tazing others just for fun; we have a strict taze for a taze policy excluding PRoHT citizens.
No, I jest. You don't all actually have tazers in your packages... just a few of you do. [**hearty laugh**]

Now, let us begin. First question.


(OOC: Please fluid-time in your head the arrival of your representative.)

OOC: Niceee I like this. Good stuff DT.

IC:

The representatives of both the Blackhelm Confederacy and Griffincrest both entered the room and made their way for the seats. The Griffincrest representative was their Chairman of the Board, Jack Phoenixclaw, and for the Confederacy, the Vice Chancellor, Gaius Redpepper.

OOC: One of them is going to be out a seat...

OOC: I wouldn't mind asking a few questions myself.

IC:

Ambassador Olive and Ambassador Mick arrived in the room and looked around breifly for a moment before taking their seats. This was going to be interesting since Mick was always wondering what the BC was like. However, being as he was, he was going to allow someone else open up the questions first before asking his own. He always wondered how these sort of things were handle. The pair found their seats and quietly sat down as they noticed the BC and Griffincrest representative's in their seats.

You'll also find a one time use tazer in the event you spy a representative of the People's Republic of Hurtful Thoughts. But be warned about tazing others just for fun; we have a strict taze for a taze policy excluding PRoHT citizens.
No, I jest. You don't all actually have tazers in your packages... just a few of you do. [**hearty laugh**]

Now, let us begin. First question.

IC:
Tall man in back, flanked by two others, all wearing red armbands:
"What about representitives of their revolutionaries hoping to make their land free once more, the Five Point Militia* (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13016046)?"


OOC:
*Calling them a mafia became too confusing
I believe GC responded to a TG ~570 days ago regarding their use in the CA.
Shortly afterwards, they started planning for a widescale military action against Greston and Maldorians.
Coincedence?

As for the representitives, in order from left to right:
Edward Mercer, Turd Furgusson, and Alexandria Montoya.

OOC: Fine. Though I have quite reasonably, admirably, and understandably never been particularly charitable with CA, BC, or GC, I am willing to make the first effort.

Christian Michter, representative of The Objectivist Region of Gesford, spoke to no-one and ignored eye-contact with the other representatives as he sat down in his chair. Jacob Arem, representative of The Kane Corporation, sat on his left, Gilbert LaJoie, representative of Venner Incorporated on his right.

The two representatives of Sarrowquand. Patrick James (Grey 59,999) of the Bureau of Foreign Affairs and Felicia Lickety of the New Foreign Office entered the conference hall and attempted to sit down, both chose the same chair and after almost falling over one another and nearly ending up in each others laps shared a glare and chose different seats.

Felicia raised her hand instantly and blurted out, "Your objective is an oil monopoly if not an energy monopoly right? But so much new oil is discovered in the NS world each year and each new reserve is one you have to fight for. Is this really practical or profitable?"

Yes, you are correct on the monopoly part. We aim to, if not squash all competition, then at least make it impractical for many new firms to survive.

It is important to note that the majority of nations do not actually fight being horizontally consolidated into a Corporate Alliance oil company. Having your oil controlled by one of the biggest and certainly the most ruthless competitor in the industry doesn't hurt your bottom line. All that compliance, however, came as a result of the CA's unending drive, scrutiny, and perseverence in going after every oil deposit in the world until we owned so many of them.

So it really is practical, and profitable tenfold more. When the Corporate Alliance is forced to "manually extract" the native government from their oil, it only serves to make our product all the more in demand. Wars use prodigious amounts of oil. In these modern days, some choose to run their nations on wind, water, solar, nuclear and other sissy "renewable" sources. But a war cannot be fought with anything but oil, and lots of it. When we invade someone for their oil, it drives demand (and prices) up and when we succeed we are there to fill everyone's tanks with our spoils of victory.

Our wars stimulate the global economy in this way; its just another example of how the whole of society benefits from capitalism.

"You have obviously lost sight of what capitalism is."

Michter spoke up sharply, rousing Arem and LaJoie from their stupors.

"Capitalism as a system is a means for ensuring the rational transaction of goods for equal goods. You are not a capitalistic entity. You are a pirate entity, a looter gang. You have clearly failed to grasp that the essence of capitalism is in the transactions it brings, the mutual benefits to trading parties, and the overall standards of excellence that result from the competition of multiple competent firms."

Michter cleared his throat and continued speaking

"Your organization is as far from a capitalistic system as any other. There is no competition, no free association, and thus none of the benefits those bring, the main benefits that capitalism as an ethically moral system are built to provide: A higher standard of goods and the free choice of those goods. We believe that the only things that lie down your path are crippling inefficiency and international hostility.

"Your shortsighted belief that 'war is good for business' is absolute nonsense. War is a fundamentally wasteful enterprise. It wastes goods that could raise the quality of life rather than lower it, it wastes valuable human expertise on short-term military problems rather than expending them on innovation and creativity, and it wastes human effort and hard work on purely countering the hard work and effort of others with accidentally different goals, rather than capitalizing on specialized workforces in different areas to produce specialized products that serve more general, meaningful goals, like the advancement of human knowledge and efficiency, or the easement of human hardship. Of course we don't mean you should give these out for free, but you are ultimately not even fighting to sell them to people.

"Your fundamentally childish view of what capitalism is and thus your ignorance of why it is the most moral economic system is the main criticism that Gesford levels against the Corporate Alliance."

You can quote what the textbook beneifts of capitalism are for a country until you're blue in the face, but its main tenent is self-interest. The only aspect of buisiness that needs to be carefully monitored in a capitalistic system is that everyone looks out for themselves. All else follows from there.

This soft view of conducting business is exactly what the CA formed to counter. Well, that and GASN. There is a pretense out there that capitalism is a system that a nation may implement and adhere to and thus benefit through free, equal trade. This is a distortion of capitalism's original goals. When Adam Smith published The Wealth of Nations he did not set forth a comprehensive list of moral rules and goals for his new economic concept as you have. He set down a single, basic principle: self-interest. Looking out for yourself is really looking out for everybody, and the beauty is you don't have to regulate yourself or go to lengths to make sure the right outcomes are being created. If you do that, you are distorting that main ideal and undermining the system, since every change you make to alter the impact you have corrupts the capitalist way.

And I never said "war is good for buisiness." I made an example of oil and our way of aquiring it. I simply showed that when we look out for ourselves and invade someone for their hoarded oil reserves, all of society benefits. All our competitors see a rise in their profits as do we, and that money is passed on as we expand our business. Soon an economy of scale developes and consumers save. Soon they have more money in-pocket to dish out for services and profits that increase their quality of life.

So really, your views are the short sighted ones. When you follow the CA's thought process, more people benefit more than if we had simply exchanged pleasantries rather than invade.

Furthermore, do not underestimate the fundamentals my friend. Without a solid base, nothing can thrive. You're better off following a theory's core ideas than extrapolating some greater good from them and following that.

"Mr. Michter, if I may.."

Jack Phoenixclaw cleared his voice as he began.

"The Griffincrest Corporation is at the moment one of the largest employers within the Blackhelm Confederacy, as Mr. Redpepper will testify too, and a large majority of these people fall into our security forces. This provides a source of employment, along with a rather large pay, to people otherwise entirely useless to society and would, if not hired by Griffincrest, grow old, wither away, and die in one of the Confederacy's vast slums.

"Aside from that, I believe it the men like Rockefeller, Carnegie, and the others were the very personification of capitalism, and its ideals, particularly the survival of the fittest mentality in business. By your statement, Mr. Michter, these men too, would be deemed anti-capitalist, correct?"

Aman of average height, with slick black hair entered the room, and sat at a seat. It was the Kraveskan Ambassador Gringameir Kahelsovech.

(Sorry for such a crappy post)
The Ralkovian ambassador sat at his chair uncomfortably. He had been in Yemen a few days before negotiating with the Colonial Government over the new incense tariff. Needless to say Yemen was incensed with it and angrily sent letters to the council to repeal it. He had accomplished the job but just as was about to enjoy his 2 day vacation a special order from the empress herself whisked him away to the conference of course all this culminated in a somewhat flabbergasted ambassador. He knew somewhat of the economy and of Ralkovia's allegiance to the CA but that didn't extend far enough to cover what they were talking about.

Government and Political Negotiations not Economic Theory was his forte but he had read a book or two about it on his way to the conference.

You can quote what the textbook beneifts of capitalism are for a country until you're blue in the face, but its main tenent is self-interest. The only aspect of buisiness that needs to be carefully monitored in a capitalistic system is that everyone looks out for themselves. All else follows from there.

Michter glared at the man with contempt, the way a man glares at a thief he has caught in his home.

"The main tenet of capitalism is the private ownership of resources and wealth, and the voluntary usage of the owners of those to use the as they see fit. You have done more damage to private ownership (I consider the major players in this alliance to be little more than shameless communists who don't make any effort to hide the fact that their gains are in fact, motivated by personal greed, rather than any concern for the people) than any of the more discreet communist regimes.

"Self interest stands on its own merits, not the ones capitalism ascribes to them. And your understanding of self interest is flawed as well. Making lots of enemies is decidedly not a good way to ensure security. Trading intelligently is. And spell better. "


This soft view of conducting business is exactly what the CA formed to counter. Well, that and GASN. There is a pretense out there that capitalism is a system that a nation may implement and adhere to and thus benefit through free, equal trade. This is a distortion of capitalism's original goals. When Adam Smith published The Wealth of Nations he did not set forth a comprehensive list of moral rules and goals for his new economic concept as you have. He set down a single, basic principle: self-interest. Looking out for yourself is really looking out for everybody, and the beauty is you don't have to regulate yourself or go to lengths to make sure the right outcomes are being created. If you do that, you are distorting that main ideal and undermining the system, since every change you make to alter the impact you have corrupts the capitalist way.
"Have you even read An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations? I take it you have not. Self interest was not, on its own merits, the reason why Smith chose to rely upon it to make economic decisions. Smith's 'invisible hand' that would guide the market in ultimately beneficial ways (and yes, he meant beneficial for everybody) was the reason it had to be relied upon, the reason that a contrived system ultimately would not work. Do your research before attempting to usurp the message of a man far more intelligent than this alliance."


And I never said "war is good for buisiness." I made an example of oil and our way of aquiring it. I simply showed that when we look out for ourselves and invade someone for their hoarded oil reserves, all of society benefits. All our competitors see a rise in their profits as do we, and that money is passed on as we expand our business. Soon an economy of scale developes and consumers save. Soon they have more money in-pocket to dish out for services and profits that increase their quality of life.
"Have any nations, any at all, declared that they had oil reserves they were going to hoard before being oh-so-fortunately invaded by the Corporate Alliance? No, they have not. They always mean to sell the oil, and you simply can't stand to see someone else in possession of something. Your actions demonstrate a complete lack of regard for the principle of private property, which, as I said, IS the central tenet of capitalism.


So really, your views are the short sighted ones. When you follow the CA's thought process, more people benefit more than if we had simply exchanged pleasantries rather than invade.

"I challenge you to make any sense of that statement. All you have done is propped up regimes too lazy to actually think of ways to make money by invading others for what you haven't honestly worked for, and have thus consistently retarded the growth of capitalism in its truest sense. "


Furthermore, do not underestimate the fundamentals my friend. Without a solid base, nothing can thrive. You're better off following a theory's core ideas than extrapolating some greater good from them and following that.

"It is clear you have no idea what you are talking about. You propose to follow a tautology blindly, using as little mental power as possible, and look what it gave you: an alliance so desperate to scrabble for its last breaths of power it can't stand to lose any members without throwing a tantrum. Yeah, good work 'following a theory's core ideas'."


"The Griffincrest Corporation is at the moment one of the largest employers within the Blackhelm Confederacy, as Mr. Redpepper will testify too, and a large majority of these people fall into our security forces. This provides a source of employment, along with a rather large pay, to people otherwise entirely useless to society and would, if not hired by Griffincrest, grow old, wither away, and die in one of the Confederacy's vast slums.

Michter furiously rounded on the other man. Having worked himself up, he was not going to back down.

"Better to let them struggle on their own without their government propping them up in the most anti-capitalistic manner possible."


"Aside from that, I believe it the men like Rockefeller, Carnegie, and the others were the very personification of capitalism, and its ideals, particularly the survival of the fittest mentality in business. By your statement, Mr. Michter, these men too, would be deemed anti-capitalist, correct?"
"Again, you demonstrate that you have no idea what capitalism is. These men never hired thugs to threaten every competitor with death and destruction, these men actually used their minds to come up with better ways of making money. What you have done is simply become a gang of large thieves, the enemies of capitalism, a gang of pirates, the enemies of private property. "

"So you would rather see people die than be given an opportunity to make a paycheck? And as for the use of thugs...I would beg to differ. Look at Pinkerton and the strike breakers. Look at the US invasion of Nicaragua after United Fruit was about to lose all of its stake in the area, what would be called the Banana Wars, or look at the US annexation of Hawaii. It is even arguable that the US entry into World War I was pushed in a big way by one mister JP Morgan after he feared he would lose much of his vast investments in France. So please sir, I believe that they too, hired as you would say 'thugs' to assist them in their work."

A redneck was quietly watching the event, paying attention to all the lies and fast talking that infested the usual answers, awaiting for the right moment to ask a question. He still remembers back in the day he was diving on the sea, for the beach was next to his farm, and the day he accidentally found the jet of black water from the depths of the shallow waters of the coast. The day prosperity came to him.

Eventually, as he saw such opportunity, he raised from his seat asked:

"I found underwater oil in ma lands, and ma lands there is no government but me. Will I have to shoot your claim jumpers butts with ma twelve gauge while I pick up the rest with ma big knife?"

A Leistungi delegate rose from his seat tentatively, checking his left and right to ensure than no Griffencrest hitmen were waiting on his flanks to steal the clothes off his back.

"I have a question," he began, his voice growing louder along with his boldness. "How exactly does the Corporate Alliance justify the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents at the hands of its agents in Griffencrest. I speak of course of the aforementioned company's less than timid reactions to weak, fledgling nations with oil?

"My real question, I suppose, is this--why shouldn't I leave this room today thinking that the Corporate Alliance is perhaps the single greatest threat to individual national sovereignty and freedom in the world today?"

The Kraveskan ambassador had remained quiet until now. "I think that the CA is large enough of a problem to be taken to the WA." He looked at the CA Ambassadors. "Whatever you call your form of "government", it is still piracy, pure and simple."

"So you would rather see people die than be given an opportunity to make a paycheck? And as for the use of thugs...I would beg to differ. Look at Pinkerton and the strike breakers. Look at the US invasion of Nicaragua after United Fruit was about to lose all of its stake in the area, what would be called the Banana Wars, or look at the US annexation of Hawaii. It is even arguable that the US entry into World War I was pushed in a big way by one mister JP Morgan after he feared he would lose much of his vast investments in France. So please sir, I believe that they too, hired as you would say 'thugs' to assist them in their work."

"Yes, I would rather see them die than be propped up by an anti-capitalist system, or by making use of a system that denies the choice of capitalism to others. And your examples all fit exactly of what I would call using 'hired thugs' to advance goals in a strictly anti-capitalist way. You simply listed government actions of the worst sort."

The Kraveskan ambassador had remained quiet until now. "I think that the CA is large enough of a problem to be taken to the WA." He looked at the CA Ambassadors. "Whatever you call your form of "government", it is still piracy, pure and simple."

OOC: WA doesn't exist in II.

This isn't II. You're referring to Nationstates II, right?

This isn't II. You're referring to Nationstates II, right?

II means International Incidents.

This isn't II. You're referring to Nationstates II, right?

ooc no they are not, thats Nationstates 2
II = International Incidents

Sorry, I'm new at this.

OOC: It's okay. I got confused by the acronyms a lot when I started too.

A short black man near the back stood and asked a question directed at the Griffencrest representative.

"How many more wars do you think you will have to lose before the costs of successive military defeats drive you bankrupt?"

"Yes, I would rather see them die than be propped up by an anti-capitalist system, or by making use of a system that denies the choice of capitalism to others. And your examples all fit exactly of what I would call using 'hired thugs' to advance goals in a strictly anti-capitalist way. You simply listed government actions of the worst sort."

"And yet they are actions that have helped to shape the United States that exists today. Is the United States anti-capitalist?"

"And yet they are actions that have helped to shape the United States that exists today. Is the United States anti-capitalist?"
"In many ways, yes. The United States is quite far from the kind of capitalist country that Gesford would approve of. However, it is still not quite as far as most. It is merely that by actions like these, and perhaps just because of the justification for them that you provide, that they have strayed from what we believe made the United States a most desirable place to live. National security of the entire country should not be so closely tied to the economic interests of a few individuals."

"So by what you say, do any capitalist nations exist in this world?"

Michter glared at the man with contempt, the way a man glares at a thief he has caught in his home.

"The main tenet of capitalism is the private ownership of resources and wealth, and the voluntary usage of the owners of those to use the as they see fit. You have done more damage to private ownership (I consider the major players in this alliance to be little more than shameless communists who don't make any effort to hide the fact that their gains are in fact, motivated by personal greed, rather than any concern for the people) than any of the more discreet communist regimes.

Damage private ownership? I'd only be able to address that statement if you were to come up with a legitimate example of that behavior within the CA.

"Self interest stands on its own merits, not the ones capitalism ascribes to them. And your understanding of self interest is flawed as well. Making lots of enemies is decidedly not a good way to ensure security. Trading intelligently is. And spell better."

I don't follow you on the begining of your second point. But I can say that we didn't make lots of enemies, they chose to oppose us against reason. Perhaps they need a way to cover up their own insecurity or simply need a scapegoat for their problems to shift the heat off their inept leadership. And our methods clearly aren't as ineffective as you claim, since our nations still stand independent (more so even than most) and our alliance persists.

And what do you mean "Spell better?"
(OOC: Two things on that one. This is an IC thread, and even if it wasn't, a few typos doesn't establish your superiority over me despite whatever mind-game you had in your head when you wrote that.)

"Have you even read An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations? I take it you have not. Self interest was not, on its own merits, the reason why Smith chose to rely upon it to make economic decisions. Smith's 'invisible hand' that would guide the market in ultimately beneficial ways (and yes, he meant beneficial for everybody) was the reason it had to be relied upon, the reason that a contrived system ultimately would not work. Do your research before attempting to usurp the message of a man far more intelligent than this alliance."

Do my research? But you agree with my statement. You just said that a contrived system based on capitalism, like the one you described as ideal earlier using phrases like "equal opportunity," will not work. Ipso facto what you said before, which I must say had socialist leanings, is a perversion of capitalism and you are in full agreement with our dealings whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.

Please sir, do not argue with us for the sake of it. From what you have just argued, I would say your ideologies are right in line with ours. Perhaps there could be room for your nation in the CA if its citizens are as like-minded as you.

"Have any nations, any at all, declared that they had oil reserves they were going to hoard before being oh-so-fortunately invaded by the Corporate Alliance? No, they have not. They always mean to sell the oil, and you simply can't stand to see someone else in possession of something. Your actions demonstrate a complete lack of regard for the principle of private property, which, as I said, IS the central tenet of capitalism.

When these nations bring the public's attention to their new oil, they do it out of greed. They can't drill, pump, process or sell that oil at any reasonable rate but then refuse to let it go to good use. They do not look to have others help them profit from the oil but hoard what little they can produce to themselves. They may think they are looking out for their best interests, but their inexperience renders the profit they can make drilling it themselves negligable next to the cut they'd recieve from Griffencrest.

The CA ends up having to get involved to relieve people of their oil and make sure it gets into the market. Because oil in the ground does not help anyone.

"It is clear you have no idea what you are talking about. You propose to follow a tautology blindly, using as little mental power as possible, and look what it gave you: an alliance so desperate to scrabble for its last breaths of power it can't stand to lose any members without throwing a tantrum. Yeah, good work 'following a theory's core ideas'."

The current crisis has nothing to do with power Mr. Michter. The CA is a proud and honorable alliance, not one that nations may come and go from as they please. We do not take kindly to false pledges of allegiance and will not take kindly to a nation that makes them.

"I have a question," he began, his voice growing louder along with his boldness. "How exactly does the Corporate Alliance justify the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocents at the hands of its agents in Griffencrest. I speak of course of the aforementioned company's less than timid reactions to weak, fledgling nations with oil?

"My real question, I suppose, is this--why shouldn't I leave this room today thinking that the Corporate Alliance is perhaps the single greatest threat to individual national sovereignty and freedom in the world today?"

Why should you leave this room today and think that? Have you reason to believe any of that, or are you just feeding off the rumors and lies that circulate about the CA? The Griffencrest Corporation does not murder innocents and the CA does not threaten any nations sovereignty. Never has the Corporate Alliance nor any of its members denouced the ligitimacy of another country. We are not the ones demanding that others conform to our views on "right" and "wrong." It is our enemies who travel about as world police deciding how others are allowed to conduct their business.

The short black man near the back of the room repeated his question, since the Griffencrest representative apparently hadn't heard.

"So by what you say, do any capitalist nations exist in this world?"
"Gesford. We respect each other's private property and allow individuals to make whatever financial transactions or personal choices they choose, unless those infringe upon the rights of another to do the same."

Damage private ownership? I'd only be able to address that statement if you were to come up with a legitimate example of that behavior within the CA.
"How can you even ask that? Every forced takeover of a nation's resources the CA has committed, every invasion based purely on a nation's lack of desire to remain in the alliance represents a damning breach of the respect for private property."

I don't follow you on the begining of your second point. But I can say that we didn't make lots of enemies, they chose to oppose us against reason. Perhaps they need a way to cover up their own insecurity or simply need a scapegoat for their problems to shift the heat off their inept leadership. And our methods clearly aren't as ineffective as you claim, since our nations still stand independent (more so even than most) and our alliance persists.
"Your enemies have opposed you based on the very reasonable fear that if you have no qualms about invading countries that have done you no wrong, you would likewise have no problem invading them. You have offended their very reasonable principles as well, regarding the right to sovereignty that every nation possesses, in the same manner that individuals possess inherent rights to make their own choices(which you have also disregarded). You have made plenty of enemies, and gotten into plenty of pointless conflicts. Tell me, if your alliance is not in danger or losing members (because of your terrible international reputation and rather large and numerous enemies), why do you so vehemently oppose nations leaving it?"

Do my research? But you agree with my statement. You just said that a contrived system based on capitalism, like the one you described as ideal earlier using phrases like "equal opportunity," will not work. Ipso facto what you said before, which I must say had socialist leanings, is a perversion of capitalism and you are in full agreement with our dealings whether you choose to acknowledge it or not.
"Did you not hear me correctly, delegate? Capitalism is the essence of a very denial of contrived systems, and thus the embracing of private property and private choices to govern it, not an emphatic endorsement of self interest as an ideal. Capitalism as a system has no relation to ideals. It is a system of allocation, specifically one that allocates based on intelligent action. The only reason this is endorsed by Smith is because this begets, as I said before, the invisible hand that will ultimately benefit greatest number of people the most. That was his justification, not self-interest as an ideal unto itself."

Please sir, do not argue with us for the sake of it. From what you have just argued, I would say your ideologies are right in line with ours. Perhaps there could be room for your nation in the CA if its citizens are as like-minded as you.
"The thought had crossed my mind, quickly deserting it after I read of your deeds past the words 'corporate' and 'capitalism'. Now I would not even consider it. Your corporation is nothing more than a very-nationalistic, socialistic government, and your alliance nothing more than a large pirate raiding party. We keep no counsel with looters such as you."

When these nations bring the public's attention to their new oil, they do it out of greed. They can't drill, pump, process or sell that oil at any reasonable rate but then refuse to let it go to good use. They do not look to have others help them profit from the oil but hoard what little they can produce to themselves. They may think they are looking out for their best interests, but their inexperience renders the profit they can make drilling it themselves negligable next to the cut they'd recieve from Griffencrest.
"There is too much oil in the world for this view to even be remotely the case. Everybody knows that you can't make money hoarding and choking the supply when there are enough competitors on the market. Now, even if you were able to demonstrate any truth to your description of the world resource market, your actions would still be a violation of private property. If you wish to be pirates, that's your choice. But do not call yourselves 'capitalists'."

The CA ends up having to get involved to relieve people of their oil and make sure it gets into the market. Because oil in the ground does not help anyone.
"I have a very hard time believing that the sole point of these ridiculous invasions of sovereign nations is to help people. For obvious reasons."

The current crisis has nothing to do with power Mr. Michter. The CA is a proud and honorable alliance, not one that nations may come and go from as they please. We do not take kindly to false pledges of allegiance and will not take kindly to a nation that makes them.
"If only all of your actions supported such a view. You cannot seriously entertain the idea that you are an honorable alliance that won't let its members leave, and at the same time an alliance which justifiable invades others simply to take their natural resources. Pick one or the other, you're damned either way."

I've already addressed the issue of us not taking kindly to deserters. It is a disrespectful and unhonorable thing to throw your support around willy-nilly and the CA will not tolerate it. Just because you do not hold people accountable for their actions doesn't mean we will follow your example.

And who are you to dictate the nature of our alliance? If you cannot see the motives for our actions and don't percieve of us as honorable, than at least have the good grace not to meddle. The labels you throw on us so casually and the ultimatums you include at the end of your remarks are disrespectful. You should know that the CA has taken action against nations for less.

At this time though, I would like to steer the questions back to the topic of the Corporate Alliance and away from a debate on the structure of capitalism. Clearly the subject of Kraveska is one of note, maybe there is a question regarding that? Or would Mr. Pheonixclaw like to answer the question of the man in the back?

"We will not be bankrupt for some time Mr.....?" Jack said to the man in the back.

Then, turning to the representative of Gesford

"Please, do your best to show us, exactly, how the economy of your nation works."

"Mr. Kyriacos. Financial reporter."

The man gestured towards a name tag, which also informed that he was a writer for "Κύπρος κλητήρας."

"So for my readers, do you have an estimate of just how much money the Corporate Alliance has lost due to these defeats? We know of course that the Deserted Territories paid thirty-five trillion in reparations in war against us, but my readers will be curious what the total costs for repairing war damage, rebuilding lost warships and the like were. And of course there were the other wars too, such as when Griffencrest lost Arterus to the Allaneans. Do you have an estimate as to how much that cost the company?

The readers will also be curious to know the remaining net worth of the company and what its current revenue stream looks like, can you shed a little light on those figures also?"

Towards the end, Mr. Kyriacos also turned slightly to include the Deserted Territories representative in the question as well.

ASoGM representative Jared Cambert entered as quietly as he could, and listened to the back and forth between the Corporate Alliance and the other delegates. The feeling of manifest destiny that the Corporate Alliance had was scary, a feeling Jared hoped they would eventually lose.

"Actually, you bring about a good question Mr. Kyriacos. You see, as it would seem, the loss to Allanea was, in the short run, damaging, but in the long run, as part of the Allanean rebuilding package, Griffincrest signed a several trillion dollar per year contract to supply the Allaneans with oil. Also, with over thirty nations relying solely on Griffincrest oil, and many others having it pumped into their country along with other sources, the money in Griffincrest accounts won't be going anywhere, anytime soon."

"Mmmmm," the man was now scribbling shorthand.

"If I may ask a few further questions, where are the majority of company oil reserves located? In the Confederacy I would guess for a large portion, but are there major holdings outside Corporate Alliance nations?

Second question, how many people does Griffencrest currently employ? Apologies if these seem basic, but I was only able to find out-of-date information in my research."

"Oil Reserves may be found on the companies website, and are located worldwide. As pertaining to employment, we employ almost two hundred and fifty million people from the Blackhelm Confederacy alone, as well as about one hundred million international employees."

Turd watched, listened, and stood there as his hands nervously fiddled with something small and angular in his pocket. Though he was careful not to press the trigger, yet.

The fact he wasn't randomly tazed yet made him feel slightly more at ease, as he now studied the room for a vacant seat as he pulled a flask of schnapps from his pocket, and returned it neatly next to a digital camera.

Alexandria was circling along the east wall, slowly approaching the corprate delegates, stoping shyly, and flirting from time to time with those she passed. Meanwhile, Mercer calmly walked outside and leaned along the exterior wall preparing hilmself with the eventual task of calming and recruiting new members in high places, that or to make a sales pitch; he wasn't quite sure yet.

"Anthony Hermes, Arbites Tribune. What's the current price for oil set by the Griffencrest Corporation?"

I've already addressed the issue of us not taking kindly to deserters. It is a disrespectful and unhonorable thing to throw your support around willy-nilly and the CA will not tolerate it. Just because you do not hold people accountable for their actions doesn't mean we will follow your example.
"I have already explained that your 'honor' is no defense of your actions. 'Honorable' nations who call themselves 'capitalists' have no business violating the sovereignty and private property of others."

And who are you to dictate the nature of our alliance? If you cannot see the motives for our actions and don't percieve of us as honorable, than at least have the good grace not to meddle. The labels you throw on us so casually and the ultimatums you include at the end of your remarks are disrespectful. You should know that the CA has taken action against nations for less.
"Your threats are as useless as they are misplaced. First of all, we don't fear you, and we never will. We look down on your system, and we have issued no ultimatums, if you really were listening. Secondly, I wasn't meddling. I was challenging your alliance's usage of the term 'capitalist'. Couple this with the fact that you created this forum for the very purpose of answering such challenges, and I have even less reason to respect your threats."

At this time though, I would like to steer the questions back to the topic of the Corporate Alliance and away from a debate on the structure of capitalism. Clearly the subject of Kraveska is one of note, maybe there is a question regarding that? Or would Mr. Pheonixclaw like to answer the question of the man in the back?
"No questions from here. I have presented my arguments, and am satisfied that you are unable to answer them satisfactorily. I expected no more, and no less."

"Please, do your best to show us, exactly, how the economy of your nation works."
"If you wish to inquire as to the economic and political workings of our territory, you may direct open correspondence to this address:

The Personal Office of Edward Lemuel Welter
The Office of the Volunteer Controller
Rapture
The Objectivist Region of Gesford

The Office will respond with all due haste, if you really are interested. Because this is not the forum for such discussion, I really must direct that question to our government. This meeting is about the Corporate Alliance, not Gesford."

"Martha Walsford, reporter for the Commonwealth Financial," the reporter announced pointing to her badge with pen at the ready.

"My Questions, in which that were submitted by our finance editors, is what is the Corporate Alliance's current trend of financial standing including loans, debts, and profits?

Furthermore, how does the Corporate Alliance attempt to compete in the vastly changing global market of today? In Example, many nations are now switching to cleaner energy sources and away from the Alliances primary export...oil. So how would the Corporate Alliance adapt to such conditions of the market?"

A bit afterward, a delegation from Zoingo arrived that also addressed the meeting. After sitting down, the official delegate stood up.

"Uh..Mr. Pïèrock, head of International Affairs for the Commonwealth. I have a question...In spite of the recent bad mishaps of terrible public/international relations, how will the CA improve its public image?"

Several guards soon saw the Hurtians, and tazed them. Over and over and over.

"Excellent question Mr. Hermes. Our average barrel goes for thirty dollars. This price, however, can be lowered if necessary, as we did for South Defese during their recent depression."

Jack then turned back to Michter

"It is entirely relevant to this discussion Mr. Michter, and I would appreciate it if you would explain how your economy runs, so that we may hopefully learn the true meaning of capitalism" he said sarcastically.

Next he addressed Miss Walsford

"I'm, quite sorry , but Griffincrest prefers to keep its financial figures out of the public light. I can say this, however, we are very much in the black."

Finally, he turned to Mr. Pierock

"I am very happy you asked, as perhaps this is a way to get more people to notice these things. Griffincrest has actually been involved in several humanitarian relief programs, all of which almost inevitably get overlooked by our rivals. As we speak, we have several carrier groups around the world distributing food and medical supplies, most notably in La Habana Cuba, where a devastating hurricane swept through, and several other nations that at the moment I cannot recall. A percent of every single barrel of oil Griffincrest sells goes directly into humanitarian aid, an aspect which many neglect to realize."

"Anthony Hermes, Arbites Tribune. What's the current price for oil set by the Griffencrest Corporation?"

I believe the last time I checked it was $30 a barrel. Correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Pheonixclaw.


I believe the delegate from the Blackhelm Confederacy can better answer your question Mrs. Walsford, but I'll field yours Mr. Pïèrock. First I'll say that I liked the way you put that question. Because the CA doesn't really do much that should provoke the distaste of the international community, but I would be a fool to pretend we do not.

In terms of correcting our image though, we are working on opening lines of communication (such as this Q&A), working to draw in fresh membership who have no reputation for others to look down upon, and toting our successes even as our enemies would preach our failings. In fact, if the CA really is such a bad and evil alliance, how can our newest member have just successfully completed a transaction with the Associated States of Gun Manufacturing? I would like everyone to note that we bought one billion barrels from them, with no questions on our "moral character" or whatnot. Either we aren't so bad as some would have you think, or the ASoGM is just as bad, and I don't think they would appreciate you putting a black mark on their name.

But no matter what steps we may take in the future to clear our name, I can assure you we will never bow to the "righteous" ideals of those nations out their who think they know better to the world. Because in reality we are not the ones forcing others to conform or threatening others sovereignty, they are.

But no matter what steps we may take in the future to clear our name, I can assure you we will never bow to the "righteous" ideals of those nations out their who think they know better to the world. Because in reality we are not the ones forcing others to conform or threatening others sovereignty, they are.
"Your statement makes no sense without relevant context. Spout vacuous condemnations all you want, they are as meaningless as they are misplaced."

"It is entirely relevant to this discussion Mr. Michter, and I would appreciate it if you would explain how your economy runs, so that we may hopefully learn the true meaning of capitalism" he said sarcastically.
"I detect in your tone that you are not serious about the question. I have no interest in providing an answer that will do no more than fill the air. Your statements have accomplished that sufficiently."

"Well Mr. Michter, if you are going to attempt insults and refuse to answer my simple question, I will have to reciprocate the notion"

"You asked a question sarcastically. I provided the necessary information to answer your question outside this forum in open correspondence, and will gladly answer your question as succinctly as I can here, if you really are serious about an answer."

Next he addressed Miss Walsford

"I'm, quite sorry , but Griffincrest prefers to keep its financial figures out of the public light. I can say this, however, we are very much in the black."


Miss Walsford began to scribble down every word that Jack spoke.

"I understand the financial figures, but what about the other question, about the CA's response to a rapidly changing global market?"

"Well then, let us here it" Jack said to Michter.

He then looked at Miss Walsford

"Well, the need for oil will be around for quite some time. I don't see us going anywhere due to that anytime soon. If not for civilian use, the military will always need fuel. Oil will be around for a long, long time."

"David Grant here, from PiracyReport.com. What is your position on combating piracy? What will you do to help ensure that the seas are safe for your ships?"

A large excessively muscly and dnagerous looking man stands up:

"Kharn Henrickson here of the Triballian Herald: Considering the nuclear detonations, massive genocide and ongoing, apparently failed, counter insurgency operations carried out by the CA in Northern Triballia, exactly how have you helped the Triballians under your steward ship compared to those in the now redeveloped and properous southern and western regions of the Nation?

Further more, with your intenet to "improve" your alliance's much malinged public image, would now not be a wonderful opertunity to return Northern Triballia to the rest of the nation?"

"We do what we can to prevent piracy, and I am unaware of a situation, or even a nation, called Triballia."

"We do what we can to prevent piracy, and I am unaware of a situation, or even a nation, called Triballia."
OOC:
Triballia=Khornate tribes

...
Griffincrest on Piracy - 11:56 AM. Tags - Griffincrest, corporate bullshit
We asked Griffincrest about how they intended to handle piracy. They replied: "We do what we can to prevent piracy." Typical bullshit - they don't care enough to give a detailed reply.
1 comment. Join the conversation!
11:58 AM - Hurts-so-good
What do you expect from corporate pirates?

Michter took some time to compose his thoughts.

"The land now called The Objectivist Region of Gesford was originally bought by venture capitalist and banking magnate Daniel Ryan in the early 1940s. Kabavian sold the land and its sovereignty to help pay off the debts of a recent large-scale war. Ryan proceeded to set up a skeletal government tasked only with preserving the freedoms of those who lived in the region. Immigration is strictly controlled (as all of the real estate is essentially private property), and all large-scale infrastructural building is commissioned to whatever company can do it (usually one of the competing entities of Venner Incorporated and The Kane Corporation though there are many exceptions) by voluntary contributions by the citizens of Gesford. Ex. You don't pay your share of the road construction and maintenance fees, you don't get a road near you and you don't get to use the ones that already exist. The same goes for emergency services, hospitals, and security(police). This has in effect wiped out lower classes before they could even come into existence.

"As part of Ryan's plans to first get the infrastructure up and running, he granted portions of his new country's land to VI and TKC, in return for soaking up some of the costs of getting the country's infrastructure running. These zones are completely under the rule of those corporations.

"The only political office is the unpaid office of Volunteer Controller. Every 7 years (and as many times as the person is willing to run), an individual is elected by asset vote (where you vote the total sum of your assets) by the citizenry of Gesford. The VC is tasked with evaluating the performance of the two contracted corporations and acting as a link between them and the citizens of Gesford. He is also the de facto head of state for the purposes of conducting relations with the leaders of other nations. His administration is drawn from and salaried by the citizens of Gesford. The current Volunteer Controller is Edward Lemuel Welter, who is 4 years into his second term.

"Gesford does not pursue "policies" per say. The government takes action (orders the corporations to act) when the material interests or freedoms of the citizens are threatened. Gesford maintains no federal army. VI and TKC maintain a very large (on the order of 2 billion mercenaries) defensive force called "Malleovic", though because Gesford does not pursue military policy abroad except under extreme circumstances, these forces are almost always stationed at home or on the border.

"Economically, Gesford operates on the principle of free association. There are no taxes, tariffs, regulations, or restrictions of any kind on commercial activities. This makes Gesford a prime spot for international investment and hi-tech research, even though the natural resources present in Gesford's geography are nothing above the ordinary. This is also the reason why the two resident corporation-states (VI and TKC) can undertake large-scale public work and still turn a profit. The country has been powered since the 70s by fusion generators run by private individuals or energy corporations. All industries and services are private."

I believe the last time I checked it was $30 a barrel. Correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Pheonixclaw.


I believe the delegate from the Blackhelm Confederacy can better answer your question Mrs. Walsford, but I'll field yours Mr. Pïèrock. First I'll say that I liked the way you put that question. Because the CA doesn't really do much that should provoke the distaste of the international community, but I would be a fool to pretend we do not.

In terms of correcting our image though, we are working on opening lines of communication (such as this Q&A), working to draw in fresh membership who have no reputation for others to look down upon, and toting our successes even as our enemies would preach our failings. In fact, if the CA really is such a bad and evil alliance, how can our newest member have just successfully completed a transaction with the Associated States of Gun Manufacturing? I would like everyone to note that we bought one billion barrels from them, with no questions on our "moral character" or whatnot. Either we aren't so bad as some would have you think, or the ASoGM is just as bad, and I don't think they would appreciate you putting a black mark on their name.

But no matter what steps we may take in the future to clear our name, I can assure you we will never bow to the "righteous" ideals of those nations out their who think they know better to the world. Because in reality we are not the ones forcing others to conform or threatening others sovereignty, they are.

OOC: It's Gun Manufacturers, not Gun Manufacturing.

IC: Jared chuckled softly when he heard the comments about the ASoGM. He knew of the deal between the ASoGM and Anghele, and knew that the reason the transaction wasn't denied was because while it was true that Anghele was in the Corporate Alliance, they had only joined recently. Therefore, they weren't party to the previous crimes of the Corporate Alliance.

OOC: Sorry.

IC: Mr. Michter, from your description, I find it hard to believe your country was even recognized by the international community, much less survived. Its entire existence relies on the good grace of a pair of corporations of which you have no tangible control over. Furthermore, your sparse government is little more than a contrived aristocracy that doesn't seem to have any powers delegated to it at all. I question its effectiveness, especially since, if I'm hearing correctly, the entire nation is run on donations? You can't be serious.

Mr. Michter, from your description, I find it hard to believe your country was even recognized by the international community, much less survived. Its entire existence relies on the good grace of a pair of corporations of which you have no tangible control over. Furthermore, your sparse government is little more than a contrived aristocracy that doesn't seem to have any powers delegated to it at all. I question its effectiveness, especially since, if I'm hearing correctly, the entire nation is run on donations? You can't be serious.

"'Good grace' has nothing to do with it. VI and TKC know that they can make the most money and work under the fewest restrictions if they pursue a cooperative stance. A contract has been made between them and every citizen (I may have forgotten to mention that VI and TKC are entirely owned by the citizens of Gesford through common equity), the VC is there to ensure their adherence to it. Whether or not the international community views us as a country, a bunch of individuals, or simply a free market 'zone' matters very little to us. We mind our own business, and we appreciate it that other nations mind theirs. As I said, we take almost no coherent foreign policy 'actions'.

"Where did you get the term 'aristocracy'? We choose to have very little government, because we need very little government. And what is this talk of 'donations'? Nobody makes donations. If a person wants to ensure their entitlement to the justice system, they have to pay for it. The same goes for other 'public' services. And as for government effectiveness, what is it you do not think it is effective enough at? We need it for a very specific task, and it accomplishes that task."

Several guards soon saw the Hurtians, and tazed them. Over and over and over.
I should remember to mention their nationalities when they aren't Hurtian next time, ah well, I suppose Tribesmen are "close enough" to Hutrians to be plausesable in spite of the massive differences.
Now I'll have to link their bios... (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13566893&postcount=11)

...

Fine... Be that way (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13555003&postcount=15)

A large excessively muscly and dnagerous looking man stands up:

"Kharn Henrickson here of the Triballian Herald: Considering the nuclear detonations, massive genocide and ongoing, apparently failed, counter insurgency operations carried out by the CA in Northern Triballia, exactly how have you helped the Triballians under your steward ship compared to those in the now redeveloped and properous southern and western regions of the Nation?

Further more, with your intenet to "improve" your alliance's much malinged public image, would now not be a wonderful opertunity to return Northern Triballia to the rest of the nation?"
After getting up, and shaking-off the effects of the gaurds now useless tazers, Turd gave an answer.

"I recall that they pulled out after discovering a lack of oil deposis, but kept a weak hold over the land due to Undershi's insistance, and was later handed to The Mandalorian Empire [Maldorians]."

"Noor Hussein, DC Enquirer. What would you do with a monopoly on oil, in the event you managed to secure one? Would you work to optimize efficiency, or to optimize profits and reinvest them into new technological development?"

Jared waited for an answer to Noor Hussein's question from the Corporate Alliance. The answers given in this Q&A session were important to Jared's intelligence gathering mission, so the ASoGM could gauge a Corporate Alliance reaction to any further oil discoveries made by ASoGM companies.

OOC: We are also waiting for an answer.

"Noor Hussein, DC Enquirer. What would you do with a monopoly on oil, in the event you managed to secure one? Would you work to optimize efficiency, or to optimize profits and reinvest them into new technological development?"

"Of course we would work to make oil extraction, delivery, and refining more efficiently. We would work to make sure that oil is processed, extracted, and delivered in the most efficient possible ways"

I used the term aristocracy, though maybe the term plutocracy would fit closer. In your nation, as you have described it, the wealthiest have the biggest say and the most control concerning what parts of the nation there are to manage. And I say donations because as you describe it there is no obligation, none whatsoever, on citizens to pay any kind of money to the two corporations that control your country.

It seems to me that people might more readily and effeciently provide their own services from competing firms rather than deal with these two unwieldy, no doubt stiflingly bureaucratic companies. The fact that you havn't mentioned this happening at all makes it seem as though there is some kind of pressure in your society to only support these two corporations, and that seems duly uncharacteristic of a real capitalist society.

Now, either all your citizens are both rich and saintly, or there is some darker force working behind the facade you just portrayed to us.

Are you sure Gesford is really so different from the CA?

I used the term aristocracy, though maybe the term plutocracy would fit closer. In your nation, as you have described it, the wealthiest have the biggest say and the most control concerning what parts of the nation there are to manage.
"That is exactly right. A person who has made more value deserves more power in determining where and to what use that value is put.

I say donations because as you describe it there is no obligation, none whatsoever, on citizens to pay any kind of money to the two corporations that control your country.
"Most of our citizens want police protection, fire protection, use of the courts, national security, etc. You are correct, there is no obligation. However, these things advertise themselves and our citizens are smart enough to see that.

It seems to me that people might more readily and effeciently provide their own services from competing firms rather than deal with these two unwieldy, no doubt stiflingly bureaucratic companies. The fact that you havn't mentioned this happening at all makes it seem as though there is some kind of pressure in your society to only support these two corporations, and that seems duly uncharacteristic of a real capitalist society.
"Private citizens often do provide services of their own. It is this very competitive spirit, this threat of better competition in the free market, that keeps VI and TKC from growing over-bureaucratic and unwieldy.

Now, either all your citizens are both rich and saintly, or there is some darker force working behind the facade you just portrayed to us.
"Rich and saintly? I'm sure our citizens would be most flattered to hear you say that, as there is no 'darker force' at work behind whatever 'facade' you are referring to."

I say rich because without as much money as their neighbors, your citizens would have no rights. Forget ethnic minorities being discriminated against, in Gesford the wealthy make all the decisions and I'll bet they always choose to further their own wealth.

And if they don't, they really must be saintly. But besides that, your populace must make some decisions based on good will alone if VI and TKC are competitive. If those companies take unevenly from the rich and the poor, but distribute their products (police, fire, courts, etc.) evenly, there is no way they offer competitive services to the rich. If a rich man's money is pooling with a poorer man's share to provide both with the same service, then the rich man is getting ripped off. So it only stands to reason that, if what you said is accurate, your citizens must all make financial decisions based on good will alone.

Now my interest is piqued. What is it that keeps your system going? I won't look down on you for whatever it is. I mean, so far I see the outline of a loosely disguised political machine running the country legally through the Volunteer office. Do any public works happen to be grossly overpriced for unknown reasons? Say a $2,000 public toilet or something?

I say rich because without as much money as their neighbors, your citizens would have no rights. Forget ethnic minorities being discriminated against, in Gesford the wealthy make all the decisions and I'll bet they always choose to further their own wealth.
"'Further their own wealth'? What do you mean? Most people make the same amount of money (around 40% of them are employed by VI and TKC), whether they are working for someone or have their own business. Remember, with so few governmentally-provided services many, many private citizens can make great deals of money providing those services themselves to others. And because of our ultra-laissez-faire system, the wealthy are usually the ones who are most intelligent. However, as I said before there is no way for them to politically enact legislation of any kind that allows them to take advantage of others. The only office is the Volunteer Controller, and the only thing the VC does is evaluate the two resident corporation-states, VI and TKC. Our society is constructed to punish very severely those who 'take advantage' of others in unfair ways.

And if they don't, they really must be saintly. But besides that, your populace must make some decisions based on good will alone if VI and TKC are competitive. If those companies take unevenly from the rich and the poor, but distribute their products (police, fire, courts, etc.) evenly, there is no way they offer competitive services to the rich. If a rich man's money is pooling with a poorer man's share to provide both with the same service, then the rich man is getting ripped off. So it only stands to reason that, if what you said is accurate, your citizens must all make financial decisions based on good will alone.
"As I said a while ago in this conversation, we don't have 'poor'. There is nothing to support them, so they died out or left many years ago. Financial decisions or equity-voting is done with a rational view of what ensures the further survival of Gesford and its values. Everyone, even the rich, are smart enough to see that those goals are what is best for them and everyone else. It is rational self-interest that compels everyone to fund roads, because then the rich can hire more employees of choice and the middle classes can find places to work. It is rational self-interest that compels everyone to pay for police, fire, and justice systems. They know they will serve them when they need it.

Now my interest is piqued. What is it that keeps your system going? I won't look down on you for whatever it is. I mean, so far I see the outline of a loosely disguised political machine running the country legally through the Volunteer office. Do any public works happen to be grossly overpriced for unknown reasons? Say a $2,000 public toilet or something?
"Public works are not overpriced. As I said before, two things make it possible for the system to keep running. VI and TKC administer domestic and foreign markets, thus ensuring always a positive cash flow into the country. Also, the level of freedom and stability Gesford enjoys creates an extremely attractive environment for foreign investment (while still stimulating and fostering domestic investment) as well as expensive research projects which bring high-skilled, high-paying jobs into Gesford. We reap the benefits of a free and just society, and thus we are able to not only 'keep the system running', but also earn value at the same time."

"I seem to be confused, Mr. Michter...what makes these payments for roads and the such any difference from taxation, and how are they collected?"

"Choice. A citizen of Gesford chooses what they want to pay for. So far, they have been intelligent enough to choose wisely. Gesford has prospered and is a safe and stable nation."

"Choice. A citizen of Gesford chooses what they want to pay for. So far, they have been intelligent enough to choose wisely. Gesford has prospered and is a safe and stable nation."

"It is not a choice...somebody is telling them how much to pay, and when, and if they choose not to pay then they are denied the freedom to use roads or be granted protection under the law. If this is choice, than so are taxes, as neglecting to pay them will lead to a very similar fate."

"Choosing not to pay a country's 'taxes' in the traditional sense usually leads to a person being jailed, fined, or worse. Choosing not to pay fees in Gesford usually leads to simply being denied access to the services. And they are not 'told how much to pay'. We have competing firms for each particular service."

"Choosing not to pay a country's 'taxes' in the traditional sense usually leads to a person being jailed, fined, or worse. Choosing not to pay fees in Gesford usually leads to simply being denied access to the services. And they are not 'told how much to pay'. We have competing firms for each particular service."

"Jailing is restricting ones ability to engage in normal society, which is not all that different from what you are doing. And about these firms...please explain this, your nation is very interesting to me and my associates."

"We don't restrict people from using whatever means they are financially entitled to engage in normal society. Example: If you have a private helicopter, you don't need to pay for roads. A poor example, as many of Gesford's speed-unlimited roads (an man can turn a hefty profit from building one of those in a scenic part of the country) are prime spots for the wealthy to drive their expensive cars, so they are generally willing to pay for the use. I'm afraid I can't provide information on any particular firms, as I have not been briefed on any of them and my presence here has nothing to do with them. If you would like information about a particular firm you should contact the particular firm you seek information concerning. We are of course pleased that you are interested in Gesford, but is this really the forum for such discussion? I have already referred you to the relevant office in my country."

"Yes...we will look further into that. Any other questions?"