NationStates Jolt Archive

I first started RPing here back in early 2003 I believe and if you dig up some of those old threads, man, this place has really gone places since then. I never realized how many Arcels there were before I did a few thread searches and looked up some of those old threads from back in the day. Everyone now seems to be cordial and RP properly and that's a really big change from a few years back. Does anyone else remember the dark ages of the II? Sorry if this is in the wrong forum I just wanted to see who all remembered those horrific times, if anyone.

Everyone now seems to be cordial and RP properly and that's a really big change from a few years back. Does anyone else remember the dark ages of the II?

Ehh.
That's because you haven't tried to get into an actual RP yet.
My first thread in II I saw someone use an invincible nukespam on the enemy's capital as their third or so post.
Then he got mad and started GMing when someone decided to stop the missile.

Lol, maybe I've been lucky thus far but the one RP I've got going has been going pretty well. If you search back to 2003 and 2004, about a quarter of thread titles started with "I delcare war on soandso!!!!11!!!!" or "Soandso launches 24 nukes!!!111!!!"

yeah, lol, the newbies still do that.

Ehh.
That's because you haven't tried to get into an actual RP yet.
My first thread in II I saw someone use an invincible nukespam on the enemy's capital as their third or so post.
Then he got mad and started GMing when someone decided to stop the missile.

*shivers*

The horror.....

Competitive RPs like wars are still prone to fail and nukespam. I believe the overall quality of RPs declined compared to late 2007 though. Not as bad as the usual fail of the early years, but still, I may be wrong but overall there has been a steady decline.

Competitive RPs like wars are still prone to fail and nukespam. I believe the overall quality of RPs declined compared to late 2007 though. Not as bad as the usual fail of the early years, but still, I may be wrong but overall there has been a steady decline.

Really? I haven't really seen too many ongoing war threads so I guess I haven''t had the opportunity to check that out. The main problem with wars back in the old days is that nobody wanted to lose lol, thus it would eventually dwindle down without a conclusion. Back in the day though there were whole groups of sucky RPers that consistantly RPed with each other and then another group of decent RPers who ignored them, it was awful.

I agree with you in General. But so far as I can tell my entire generation of Rpers has vanished, probably because I stole there soles and faith in the internet... and maybe even a virginity or two. :p But I find the quality has degraded from all the strangly named British Londonium operations (Personal fave was Operation Carmel Teacup)

You know I can honestly state that before 05, things were a lot more streamlined. Sure, there was a lot of newbie threads and wars that didn't follow and specific set rule, but things were....fun. Enjoyable even. Now, you rarely find those threads anymore. I suppose because Nationstates, to me, has just lots its innocence. These days it's more of a love/hate relationship, a place just to let out my writing potential, to grow it. To evolve even further beyond my potential.

*shrugs*

That shining innocence has died. That little spark that opened the doorway for so many things. Rules invade my mind now, not so much at this present time though. Fairness...all that. But no more innocence. It's all just role playing now. Expect for those special few who actually bring back that innocence, then it's just pure win.

You know I can honestly state that before 05, things were a lot more streamlined. Sure, there was a lot of newbie threads and wars that didn't follow and specific set rule, but things were....fun. Enjoyable even. Now, you rarely find those threads anymore. I suppose because Nationstates, to me, has just lots its innocence. These days it's more of a love/hate relationship, a place just to let out my writing potential, to grow it. To evolve even further beyond my potential.

*shrugs*

That shining innocence has died. That little spark that opened the doorway for so many things. Rules invade my mind now, not so much at this present time though. Fairness...all that. But no more innocence. It's all just role playing now. Expect for those special few who actually bring back that innocence, then it's just pure win.

Do you remember the Arcel years? Do you mean that kind of innocence or another? lol

Do you remember the Arcel years? Do you mean that kind of innocence or another? lol

Wasn't around for Arcel. I took a break somewhere between the end of 04 and the middle of 05. I did again around 06 sometime. So ya....no. But I do remember how everything was simpler.

I first started RPing here back in early 2003 I believe and if you dig up some of those old threads, man, this place has really gone places since then. I never realized how many Arcels there were before I did a few thread searches and looked up some of those old threads from back in the day. Everyone now seems to be cordial and RP properly and that's a really big change from a few years back. Does anyone else remember the dark ages of the II? Sorry if this is in the wrong forum I just wanted to see who all remembered those horrific times, if anyone.

Well, that's an optimistic viewpoint. I see II as having declined since it's 2005ish peak.

Granted, back in the day, back before the Jolt move, II was pretty bad. And not just in content. Even the servers were slow. Doubleposts were the rule rather than the exception, and you always saved your work in notepad before you posted. Always.

Ehh.
That's because you haven't tried to get into an actual RP yet.
My first thread in II I saw someone use an invincible nukespam on the enemy's capital as their third or so post.
Then he got mad and started GMing when someone decided to stop the missile.

I've seen most early 2003 and 2004 for threads, they are wayyyy worse than now.

Personally I think II was best back when I was starting out, kinda been going downhill a little but its still great I think.

2006 though wasn't so bad either.

Well, that's an optimistic viewpoint. I see II as having declined since it's 2005ish peak.

Yeah. II reached a peak around '05, especially late '05, shortly after NS the game peaked in late '04-early '05 (at least, when it had the largest number of active users, something around 150k). '05 had the balance of political activity (which was at an extreme in '03 and has declined since) and good writing (which was at an extreme in '06 and early '07, and has declined since). '06 was better written than '05 as a rule, but politically, starting to stagnate. At least according to my memory. I keep going inactive for long periods of time so maybe I missed something. However, this year so far is the most politically stagnant and poorly written of any year I can remember. No offense to any '08 and '09 nations, of course. I'm sure you're all lovely people. <.<

EDIT: To clarify, '09's "poor writing" is more a lack of focus on good writing. Most of the good writers no longer have the time or inclination to devote to NS, and not enough new ones have sprung up.

Well, that's an optimistic viewpoint. I see II as having declined since it's 2005ish peak.

Granted, back in the day, back before the Jolt move, II was pretty bad. And not just in content. Even the servers were slow. Doubleposts were the rule rather than the exception, and you always saved your work in notepad before you posted. Always.

Wow! I had almost forgotten about how screwed up the servers were, haha! You're absolutely right though, almost all my RP posts were saved in notepad because you never knew if the post would actually go through or not, it was incredibly frustrating. I don't know, maybe because I wasn't around for the majority of 05, 06, 07 and 08 is the reason I'm so impressed with II now. Do you remember those two guys that used to go at all the time back in the day? One was a country based off of Russia and the other I think was some kind of Arabic based country, they used to have a war every week, it was hilarious. This was circa early 2003.

I agree with you in General. But so far as I can tell my entire generation of Rpers has vanished, probably because I stole there soles and faith in the internet... and maybe even a virginity or two. :p But I find the quality has degraded from all the strangly named British Londonium operations (Personal fave was Operation Carmel Teacup)

I can quite assure you that we are all still here.

I wasn't around in 2003, but there's a decline in quality writing and probably the number of nations.

2007 was probably the best year I remember. :(

I don't know what things used to be, being just a little '08 but I'm sure that I, and others, are doing their best.

From what I can tell, as time went on people started to get to grips with things, in the natural process, rules as such started evolving, now people (like myself) who join late enter a world with established rules ect. and have to pick it up quickly or risk being branded a n00b and thus said rules are re-enforced and kept and considered normal.
As with anything when one thing starts and becomes the norm, people who remember things as they were feel a nostalgia towards it.

But then, what do I know? I'm just an '08 and this is all assumptions.

I can quite assure you that we are all still here.

No..no..I think you quite scared them all off, TPF. Lol, j/k man.

Anyway, seriously. The decline in role playing is really something you only take notice of if you actually concentrate on that one sect of Nationstates. For myself, I've always seen the potential in the new guy's and those little guy's lesser believed in. They always provide the best role playing, in my opinion. Whilst it can be said that other people provide the better role playing, including those that have been on NS longer, it is highly unlikely you'll find a more eager bunch of role players than those nations ignored and cast away just because they don't meet a certain "criteria".

I find the lack of role playing partially due to the more "older" nations condemning the "newer" nations and not giving them a chance to evolve and better themselves. This is why I said in the older days of NS it was better, because everyone was given a chance. Now it's either your classified "at this level" or your "condemned to being ignored" and never given a chance to learn.

In conclusion, I can't blame the lack of good role playing and story writing on one problem. We're all at fault in this one, specifically because at some point and time we never really understood the importance of passing the torch of experience. Instead we saw ourselves hording all the fame and being a stingy bastard when it came to role playing with those newer little guy's whom just wanted to learn. Never considering the impact that would have, especially when we had that free moment of "boredom" to decide the path of our role played nation. In that moment, most of us decided to "complain" about the newer generation rather than do action to better them.

Think about what I said for a moment. You'll find most of the problems your describing perfectly fit this context and could have easily been avoided.

I still remember Steel Butterfly and I trying to teach some kid how not to be a moron. ^^

I still remember Steel Butterfly and I trying to teach some kid how not to be a moron. ^^

I still remember my newbie days on the NS forum..posting on one of her threads...and getting the shock of my life as Steel scorned me for improper role play as I invaded a "closed" thread! Lol! That was the day I studied up on the forum guidelines proper.

SB's writing was absolutely impressive; there's no doubt about that.

Funnily enough, I was the tender age of 15 back in those days. The chasm between SB's writing abilities and mine was probably even greater than the gap between me and the random mouthbreathers trolling II.

I'd like to think that I've become better over the years, but who can say? :D

SB's writing was absolutely impressive; there's no doubt about that.

Funnily enough, I was the tender age of 15 back in those days. The chasm between SB's writing abilities and mine was probably even greater than the gap between me and the random mouthbreathers trolling II.

I'd like to think that I've become better over the years, but who can say? :D

Oooh...lesse here...I was...14 or 13 back then when I first started on Nationstates. Back in those day's, probably 14. It was a weird time. I always lurked both forums at some point, but mainly posted on II until I met up with Northrop-Grumman and we began an epic series of role plays that assisted in the development of my Nations characters. I met quite a few wonderful role players since then, including but not limited to Humankind Abh, Unified Sith, Automagfreek (just usually reading his posts to learn more), and of course Northrop-Grumman.

And I agree, who can say? Only the stars will tell. Haha.

EDIT

Can't forget to mention Chronosia. By Goddess, his role plays used to scare the crap out of me!

2007 was probably the best year I remember. :(
Yeah, that was a very wierdly awsome year...

it is highly unlikely you'll find a more eager bunch of role players than those nations ignored and cast away just because they don't meet a certain "criteria".
I RPed with Hataria, and can post links proving it.
Top that.

He was EXTREMELY eager during '06-'07 in particular.
And I may pick up a bit of flak for stating his alts have gotten a little better overall, although we still suspect a steady decline in sanity.
-'07 was maybe his balance between sanity and RP quality.

But lets face it, when any of us spends many years developing IC grudges on NS, "foaming at the mouth" insanity/rampancy usually follows. And Hataria has spent, liek, 6 years in the forums...
He's now the kind of tasty brewerage which one needs to be 21 in order to legally consume.

And no, Hataria is not holding a gun to my head in order to get praise.

^Edit: Woah... um... stay away from drugs kids...

Honestly I think one of the things which has really deteriorated in the last few years is the fact that nearly all threads are now closed. It doesn't help new players to get involved in the game. Also the signup threads before an RP starts aren't all that helpful, it generates a little interest but generally you get a 50% or so drop off before the actual thread... at which point it is closed.

I think more open threads would make the forums more accessable to new RPers (yes I know I can't spell).

Honestly I think one of the things which has really deteriorated in the last few years is the fact that nearly all threads are now closed. It doesn't help new players to get involved in the game. Also the signup threads before an RP starts aren't all that helpful, it generates a little interest but generally you get a 50% or so drop off before the actual thread... at which point it is closed.

When I first started RPing here, n00b and n00k threads weren't the only problems I saw. I saw way too many people who refused to cooperate to tell a story and wouldn't modify their behaviour when confronted.

I know that's what's led me to create exclusively invite only RPs. I've seen too many players who'll try to kill off a certain character without consulting with its player first. For that reason, I have no apologies when I limit involvement in my RPs.

OK you have a valid point with that, bad RPing is extremely irritating especially when it is totally unrepentant (as it usually is). However I still feel that restricting RP involvement does tend to limit the options of new players.

I think the best way to deal with the problem was posting a list of OOC rules at the start. That seems to have gone out of fashion now.

Although I am but a humble 08 noob in comparison to many here I have to say personally that although it's great that so many RPer's are gathered here the whole thing seems rather... exclusive; to me anyway.

It's already been observed that RP'ers congregrate into little groups and stick to them, so this tends to isolate newcomers. I don't know how long I would have continued lurking if it had not been for a random open thread I found that had been set up by another newcomer so in a sense I was lucky.

But another thing I've realised is from where I used to role play on a different forum (one of those NS Regions forums things). There were only seven of us at max at a time but everything was open, everyone had their own nation thread which doubled as a factbook, embassey and a place for updates on internal events such as news reports on events or such.

I know that having everything open would be a potential disaster on here, but the point i'm making was that once people set up a simple nation thread (which was compulsary) they could easily establish basic relations with other nations.

On here nations seem hidden and cut off from each other, everyone technically lurks since there isn't a set place you can go to find out these other nations. With FT nations this is somewhat logical since everyones going to be spaced out if you're being realistic. But even with MT nations im surprised that someone hasn't had the initiative to set up an equivilant of the UN for role playing purposes, diplomatic exchange, talks, a list of "active" role playing nations out there. Even a simple diplomatic coffee shop for diplomats to gather and gossip would go a long way in knitting the community together and easing people into the run of things.

I don't know why i'm saying this. I severly doubt if anyone one, even those who agree with it, would take any steps to see if anything is realised, i suppose a limitation is that it's not in the hands of the role players to mould things to their liking, set up sub-threads for specificic purposes, pin useful threads ect. Ah well, would be nice to see this place knit together but I doubt it. Who knows, maybe i'll ponder my ideas and draft up a few ideas.

OK you have a valid point with that, bad RPing is extremely irritating especially when it is totally unrepentant (as it usually is). However I still feel that restricting RP involvement does tend to limit the options of new players.

That's why I usually post my RPs as "invite only," but I am usually open to someone if he or she can approach me via TG with interest in joining the RP and a storyline proposal that works. If it doesn't work for that particular RP, I'll write back and leave the door open for involvement in a subsequent RP.

If someone's a bad RPer and I've seen plenty of evidence of it, I'll not have anything to do with him or her.

I know that's what's led me to create exclusively invite only RPs. I've seen too many players who'll try to kill off a certain character without consulting with its player first. For that reason, I have no apologies when I limit involvement in my RPs.
I'm starting to consult others when I plan something sneaky...*

Plus, my planned invasion of DMG is still just that, a plan.

Though I did get frustrated when Griffencrest meta-games his own death every time I went after him...
Sometimes I wish I stuck with "plan C" and godrodded his bunker...
Course, his skynet would return the favor... Then all hell'd break loose...

*It didn't work out, as Maldorians didn't take the news too well OOCly when I informed him of his "NWB" status in ADAN. I've been asked by Mal not to post the actual transcript... So here's the definition of NWB in action:
General: If you're watching this tape, you are the President
of the United States. Hello, sir, or ma'am.
Hopefully sir.
Bart: Got that right. [high-fives Milhouse]
General: [walks to a map of Springfield] Springfield has been
classified "NWB," for "Nuclear Whipping Boy." In
the first moments of a nuclear war, Springfield will
be bombed at will by all friendly nations to
calibrate their missiles.
[audience cheers wildly]
Now for total security, I will terminate the
cameraman. [pulls a pistol, and shoots the
cameraman]
Cameraman: Argh! Thanks a lot, Steve! [falls out of camera
range]


On here nations seem hidden and cut off from each other, everyone technically lurks since there isn't a set place you can go to find out these other nations. With FT nations this is somewhat logical since everyones going to be spaced out if you're being realistic. But even with MT nations im surprised that someone hasn't had the initiative to set up an equivilant of the UN for role playing purposes, diplomatic exchange, talks, a list of "active" role playing nations out there. Even a simple diplomatic coffee shop for diplomats to gather and gossip would go a long way in knitting the community together and easing people into the run of things.
That's the hidden context of alliances, it sub-divides NS into manageable chunks.
Course, every so often a hapless newbie will stumble into the nth NS:WW by not realizing that they are hostile to another alliance.

By joining an alliance, you aknowledge the entire group's existance, tech-base, and enemies.

Newer alliances are either slowly networked into the larger alliances through dual-treaties between nations, or eventually replace the older alliances in importance.

An even slower method of getting into the mainstream, is by merely creating an embassy, and hopping into open or semi-open/closed RPs and eventually making such a good impression that others come to YOU.
(I for one, was approached by Wanderjar and eventually the entire GASN, I didn't approach them, they came to me; IJSF nearly did the same thing, but I made sure to fail their background check.)

Although I am but a humble 08 noob in comparison to many here I have to say personally that although it's great that so many RPer's are gathered here the whole thing seems rather... exclusive; to me anyway.

It's already been observed that RP'ers congregrate into little groups and stick to them, so this tends to isolate newcomers. I don't know how long I would have continued lurking if it had not been for a random open thread I found that had been set up by another newcomer so in a sense I was lucky.

But another thing I've realised is from where I used to role play on a different forum (one of those NS Regions forums things). There were only seven of us at max at a time but everything was open, everyone had their own nation thread which doubled as a factbook, embassey and a place for updates on internal events such as news reports on events or such.

I know that having everything open would be a potential disaster on here, but the point i'm making was that once people set up a simple nation thread (which was compulsary) they could easily establish basic relations with other nations.

On here nations seem hidden and cut off from each other, everyone technically lurks since there isn't a set place you can go to find out these other nations. With FT nations this is somewhat logical since everyones going to be spaced out if you're being realistic. But even with MT nations im surprised that someone hasn't had the initiative to set up an equivilant of the UN for role playing purposes, diplomatic exchange, talks, a list of "active" role playing nations out there. Even a simple diplomatic coffee shop for diplomats to gather and gossip would go a long way in knitting the community together and easing people into the run of things.

I don't know why i'm saying this. I severly doubt if anyone one, even those who agree with it, would take any steps to see if anything is realised, i suppose a limitation is that it's not in the hands of the role players to mould things to their liking, set up sub-threads for specificic purposes, pin useful threads ect. Ah well, would be nice to see this place knit together but I doubt it. Who knows, maybe i'll ponder my ideas and draft up a few ideas.

totally agree with you.

Thanks, i've been pondering on a few things which I thik would be handy and I might give them a go, but of course im not a MT player. It might be a benefit, might be a drawback.

Thanks, i've been pondering on a few things which I thik would be handy and I might give them a go, but of course im not a MT player. It might be a benefit, might be a drawback.
Being non-mainstream techbase:
Your RP list is going to be much smaller, so it kinda like going to Cheers, and occassionally getting stuck sitting next to Dr Fraiser... On the other hand, everybody of interest would eventually know your name, even if you'd remain a complete unkown to the mainstream.

With past-tech, it pretty much impossable to wank unless someone forgot their history, tried re-writing it, or uses a 21st century approach to a 19th century problem. To make PT RPs work, you REALLY need to put technology-blinders on (and enforce it quite strictly) to avoid turning it into a steampunk'd RP.

With FT... It the opposite.

Being non-mainstream techbase:
Your RP list is going to be much smaller, so it kinda like going to Cheers, and occassionally getting stuck sitting next to Dr Fraiser... On the other hand, everybody of interest would eventually know your name, even if you'd remain a complete unkown to the mainstream.

Hehe... Dr Fraiser... an amusing man, must say I liked Fraiser immensly.

Anyways, yes your completly right, i'm playing with a technology type which is in the minority. On the other hand I feel that the same problem of all nations being isolated from "the greater scheme of things"; so people do not only have their own little countris, they also have their own little universes consisting of the few people they RP with.

I can't see how you could realistically pull off a mechanism to bring FT nations together but I believe that you could do it for MT nations, even if it has no benefit for myself I think i'll give it a go... Would just be nice to see the whole thing a bit more open to newcomers and indeed established players who simply don't RP with others.

I can't see how you could realistically pull off a mechanism to bring FT nations together but I believe that you could do it for MT nations, even if it has no benefit for myself I think i'll give it a go... Would just be nice to see the whole thing a bit more open to newcomers and indeed established players who simply don't RP with others.
9th dimensional-travel for FTL space-travel in the 3rd. (http://www.veoh.com/videos/v589221QEEhaFwc) = A really epic "sliders" rip-off, in space.

Keep in mind, how it relates to string theory is pure techno-babble, but for the time-being, would be accepted by the proles.

(time/space/dimensional)Warps, 'slipstreams (folding within a folded dimension)', or 'Folds', ultimately work in this manner BTW.

So actually, FTL travel in NS is either "imposable" in ultra-hard FT ("advanced soace PMT"), can be imagined as jumping across parallel and non-parallel dimensions with or without the same laws of physics as our own, or just by simply residing in a non-parallel universe in which allows FTL-travel w/o difficulty (this last one is pretty much "slipstream" BTW, and in ST canon, is reffered to as "fluidic space" and "hyperspace" in other media, in short, physics are borked out there and wierd shit happens, so it is usually avoided).

Likewise, this makes ignoring/acknowledging various techs quite easy by simply stating they haven't found each other's non-parallel universe yet.

NS:II is best imagined as the 10th dimension of Nation-state RPs.