NationStates Jolt Archive

(OOC: This thread is a meeting thread between my nation's government and representatives from the nations currently occupying me)

All diplomacy is a continuation of war by other means.
~Zhou Enlai

Protesters were taken care of, Streets were cleared. The east wing of the ministries office was sealed off and out of sight of course there was nothing that could be done about the appearance of the street or the city. A fact that shamed Nita greatly.
A conference room had been prepared for the arrival of the foreign 'guests' ready for their arrival. The past week had been hard, so much had happened and Fictions was unprepared for most of it, and now it was time to sort it all out once and for all.
Nita paced the room, it seemed a shame that her first meeting as leader of Fictions would be the one that may decide how to put her out of power. Never in her wildest dreams had she ever envisioned herself as Leader of Fictions, but it had happened, along with so many more things, terrible things, things she hoped she would never have to see again. Now she waited for the arrival of the foreigners who were occupying her country to arrive...

(OOC: This is the diplomatic half of this thread:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=577807)

Main Airport, Aquaria
Natasha Spolek checked her watch impatiently.
When is this goddamn cab going to finally get there. she thought, amidst all the honking and yelling. Looking ahead, she saw the source of her impatience, a protest being broken up. Swallowing her disgust, she bit her lip and asked the cab driver if there was any alternative route to the government building.
The cab driver responded:"Yes, but you're going to have to walk."

Looking at the two gentlemen accompanying her, she asked, with a smile, "I don't suppose either of you two mind walking?"
Not waiting for a response, once the cab came to a stop, she abruptly slipped the cab driver a wad of bills and briskly walked to the building, leaving the two gentlemen in her wake. Finally, after walking for a few minutes, she reached the building, the two men behind her and out of breath.
As she pushed open the doors, she thought to herself: I'm not a businessperson, I'm a politician. I came to help these people. Now let's see if they want to be helped.

(OOC: Made my arrival on the other thread)
Ian Nairn followed the rather rude aide into the building. He entered the heavily guarded interior of the Ministries interior. Ian, his assistant and his secretary headed in, they would broker a deal with Fictions and The Northern Baltic.

The aide walked briskly as he lead the whiskeasians down the hallways of the building, which buzzed with activity, eventually stopping in-front of a door which had two armed men in the black and red uniform of The Guard standing to attention.
“Whiskeasian envoy to see Mrs Ellison” the aide held up an ID card impatiently and the guards stepped aside, without saying a word.

The conference room of the Ministries Office was only ever used for small meetings between ministers and as such was never really intended to host foreign visitors but as it was the only government building that was still in full working order they had to make do with what was at hand. In each corner of the room was another member of The Guard. A woman stepped up to them, she was short and rather stocky, her hair was thick, curly and incredibly frizzy and she wore think round glasses, she looked more like an IT worker than a politician but she was Nita Ellison, the leader of Fictions. At least, for the moment.
She shook their hands and introduced herself, hiding her resentment towards them with smiles and politeness.

***

Having escorted the Whiskeasians to the conference room the aide made his way to meet the other envoy. Why couldn't someone else take care of it? No matter. He walked towards the envoy from The Northern Baltic and spoke to the woman who seemed to be in charge.
“You The Northern Baltic or Angenteria?”
“The Northern Balti-”
The man cut them off with an impatient wave of his hand
“Right, the commies. Follow me then” Irritably he lead them towards where the meeting would take place.

Ian was glad to see the back of that insufferable aide. He glanced around the room, guards in each corner and weird hobbit lady walking up to meet them. He had left his guards at the entrance to the building, in anything kicked off they would have to rescue the Whiskeasian delegates, not that the Fictional government would do anything with nearly a thousand itchy troops outside.

The hobbit lady seemed to want to something, she was looking at him in a expecting sort of manner. He put his hand out and that was when he realized that this was the leader of Fictions. He replied with "Hello, I'm Ian Nairns. I'm head of the Diplomatic and Reconstruction delegation program." He flashed her one of his smiles. She seemed to holding something back, like she resented them being here. Maybe it was because his country had just dropped a nuclear bomb on them. Who knew.

Natasha Spolek, slightly aggravated, but still calm, sat down.
Tossing her briefcase on the table, she produced a number of papers and collected them in a small pile in front of her. Trying to get a feel for the people at the conference, she glanced at the other members of the conference. After a few seconds, though, she turned her head quickly to look down at her papers, letting her dirty blond hair fall to her shoulders.

Lord Emperor Havok Agamemnon was a devoted follower of the United Republic, its ideals, and its hold on Freedom and Democracy. Ages ago the Imperial Drekamythian Empire held its own as the premier Imperial Power in the Region, fighting to survive against its age-old nemesis in Nodea Rudav. War after war, battle after battle, Drekamythia became something of a laughing stock. That was until the Great War that Unified three nations into a Grand Empire, something Havok enjoyed to represent at any meeting being it foreign or domestic. His people still cherished the ancient prophecy of the God Emperor, foretold to return when the days of Armageddon were upon Drekamythia. People believed firmly in this prophecy, stating the existence of Dragons within the Drekamythian borders as proof of it. Havok himself had a hard time swallowing such religious dogma, but he stood himself upon the foundation of his previous Lord Emperors that came before him.

Drekamythia was not an active participant in foreign affairs, as the entire nation was a Sovereign Member of the Anagonian United Republic. For two thousand and nine years this had been such, and Havok understood the importance of conveying that he himself did not represent Drekamythia as an independent nation, but instead all of Anagonia as the rights of the Unification Agreement allowed unto him. Experienced in the diplomatic affairs of the world, and experienced in governing his personal military and economy, he was well maintained to convey the intentions and desires of the People of Anagonia than a normal Ambassador could. Tradition allowed him much leeway in decisions, especially in diplomatic affairs such as this meeting. Fictions held a personal importance for the Lord Emperor, being the origin of the terrorists that slaughtered his friend and comrade.

Standing about six feet and two inches, he dwarfed many of his Anagonian brethren. Natural born Drekamythians matured usually to this height, representing the eon or so of heritage held within the proud Imperial Democracy. His hair extended downward to half his lower back, a coloring of silver and slight grayish being the natural hair color of history. Donned upon his body was firm metal plates of armor representing the Warrior History of his people, engraved with ancient symbols in the native Draconic language of Drekamythia. His armor was shinned to perfection, and on his side a long-sword sheathed within a rune-engraved metal casing. Underneath the armor was black garment and scale-mail, overall the traditional uniform looking as if the Lord Emperor was prepared to die in battle with his armies. Behind him, nearly touching the ground, was an equally black cape that extended from the armor, on the back of it engraved a golden Dragon surrounded by runes to represent the symbol of Drekamythian Power.

His silver-green eyes befell the aide that was to escort him to the meeting. A serious expression was placed upon the aide, one that refused to be denied. He heard rumor's that this aide was rather rude. If presented the chance, he would gladly show how "rude" an Emperor could be. But for the special occasion of this meeting, he would restrain himself and concentrate on the interests that the People desired for Fictions. Perhaps a small portion of his diplomacy going to the "interests" of the Government that represented the People also.

(OOC: No offence peoples, this aide is just a pain in the arse, i don't mean disrespect towards your characters it's all in good fun

Oh whiskeasy, she's about 5ft2 or something. Mind you when it comes to taking the piss out of other people's characters I can't exactly speak xD)

When the aide first saw the Anagonian he held back a smirk with great difficulty, he had been told not to make any of his comments as this was not just an ambassador. But seriously? Had he just stepped back in time or something? hello, medieval times calling, they want their armour back.
He bit back a sarcastic comment with great difficulty he lead the way to the meeting room, and once they were inside the door locked and he was out of sight he allowed himself a grin. Looks like the 21st century simply past some people by eh?

***

Nita felt slightly intimidated by the man in the armour, and it wasn't just the large sword which seemed to have attracted the wary attention of the Guards stationed around the room.
“Well... Seeing as we're all here, I think we should begin...”

((OOC: No problem, making fun of people is all I seem to do! And it's more fun this way.))

Ian knew he had to take initiative, if he asserted his authority maybe the other people in the room would back down. However he doubted that, one was a knight and the other the tough ambitious kind of woman. The worst kind. He was in a tricky situation but his charms and speaking skills were far beyond that of a hobbit, warlord or harpy so he was confident. At least that is what he wanted to exude.

"Welcome everybody, I'm Ian Nairns Head of the Diplomatic and Reconstruction delegation program, from Whiskeasy. I would just like to say it as an honor to work alongside you all and I hope we can all provide a fruitful working relationship. First up, who are you all! We could be here for a while and we need to trust one another."
The lies, he thought, I must of lied three times in that conversation. He smiled at them all, he was a politician. Lying and hiding his true feelings were part of the job.

Natasha rotated her head clockwise and listened to Ian speak.
Fucking Capitalist Politician she thought He thinks he's going to turn these people into slaves. Not today they won't.
Natasha stood up after Ian finished, her shoulders back and her back straightened. Bringing her shoulders down, she began to speak, "It is a pleasure to be here. My name is Natasha Spolek and, as one of the Department of Foreign Affair's top diplomats, I was sent here to help restore this nation. And", she added "assure that Fictions will by no means be turned into a colony."

He noted the smirk on the aide's face as he observed Havok's ritual armor. It was a great displeasure to have oneself mocked through tongue, but even more of a dishonor to have oneself mocked through mind. He assumed the aide did as much, but refused to acknowledge him except a hard glare, then entering the room to find the Guards directly looking at his sword. This pleased him, along with the sense that his presence was quite intimidating. It was the reaction he was going for and was quite happy his plans for this meeting seemed to be off on a good start. Slowly, he surveyed the room. Each individual, including the Guards, warranted a half-minute gaze. These precious seconds were taken up thanks to the time it took for the other two individuals to speak on behalf of their nations intentions, and when it came time for his turn he stood with a hand on the hilt of his ritual sword.

"I am Lord Emperor Havok Agememnon, Sovereign Ruler of the Imperial Drekamythian Empire." His words were slow, his speech was soft hinting to age. "Drekamythia is a Sovereign Province within the United Republic, and by the Unification Agreement I hereby speak on behalf of the Government and People of Anagonia as one of the regions National Leaders." He let this description sink in for a minute, then continued. His gaze turned to both of the Foreign Diplomats, "As I understand it, the United Republic does not desire nor condones any involvement with the Coalitions of either side of the Global War. Anagonia is now a neutral country honoring the Peace Accord between the honorable nations of the Lyran Protectorate and the Reich which is hereby noted to be known as the 'Reich'." He lowered his gaze, turning his attention to Nita Ellison. "I, on behalf of the United Republic, do hereby proclaim our own intentions for Fictions being of sound judgment and peace. We will be sending Military Forces to rebuild and reconstruct Fictions to her former glory. We will be seeking relations that prohibit any further hostile relations between our two nations."

He placed emphasis on "hostile", possibly referring to the recent Terrorist Attacks that killed the Chief Governor. He did not explain the emphasis, merely continuing as he gazed at all attending the meeting formally. "I will be acting only with the best interests of the People of Anagonia, and therefore extending said best interests to the People of Fictions. We will not allow any foreign interference in this matter-" an intense glare towards both Natasha and Ian "-unless said interference is allowed by the judgment of this council we join in today."

He bowed his head lightly towards Nita, a gentle smile on his face. "I now formally finish my introduction statement, Lady Ellison." He finished the light bow of his head, "I therefore respectfully request that I be allowed to formally involve myself in this meeting." He made a hand motion towards the empty chair, as if requesting permission to sit was something of dire importance to any diplomatic meeting he attended.

“Very well” She paused a moment “I would like to clear one thing, while I myself am only intending to govern this country until such time that it may be considered stable, I would like to make a point to say that I have no intention, and many people will agree, to change the governing of this country.” This was a brash move, directly defying the people occupying the nation who she knew very well wanted to turn Fictions into, god-forbid, a democracy. She glanced at the guards who stood slightly more to attention, ready to intervene if things showed even the slightest hint of becoming less than diplomatic.

(OOC: Sorry for crappy posts today, i'm feeling a bit brain-dead)

"Thank you," Havok replied as he sat in the empty chair listening to Nita's statement. He nodded, understanding perfectly what she said. After a moment or two of silence, he gave a warm smile and replied in a kind tone.

"The United Republic has no intentions to deprive the People of Fictions from the choice of government." He inclined his head slightly respectfully, "This is the Peoples Right and therefore their Right to choose what governing entity is established to serve their interests."

Ian frowned, he had two objectives. Make it capitalist, and make it democratic. This was quite blatantly against his mission.
"I disagree, if anything this has shown that a dictatorship is not right for this country. This should have at least some form of democracy and I'm afraid I must demand that. There will be democracy. The country is falling apart without solid leadership but we all can agree that some basic freedoms need to be given to the people of Fictions. The right to free speech, the right to freedom of expression, the right to vote. Of course other rights should be included but this is a new chapter for Fictions. A new shining chapter where you can emerge from the darkness and ignorance of tyranny and into the light of freedom and democracy." He nodded towards his fellow diplomats. The old one seemed Ok, but that commie bitch was giving him looks. And she was implying that Fictions would be colonized. Like Whiskeasy needed it, though the oil was a benefit. He would see what he could do. Just another step on the ladder to success.

Havok listened to the Whiskeasy's representatives reply. He raised an eyebrow, considering both the statement spoken and his options. As a Leader, he was given every possible route in diplomatic negotiations like the Chief Governor would. This provided him an uncanny advantage to change Anagonian interests on a whim to support a grand goal, if there was any. Desired specifics would remain the same, but the path to achieve set goal could be altered. He looked down for a moment, averting his gaze of those present. A slight smirk appeared.

Havok's own personal opinion was the same as Ian's. Yet despite the common opinion, he couldn't allow feelings or personal beliefs to interfere with the advancement of Anagonian interests. This was more or less a task for the People. Revenge for the death of the Chief Governor was desired, yet the way of Anagonia was quite different from the way's of other nations. While, indeed, almost any poll would show Fictions at the direct bottom of a public opinion rating the People themselves would cite many Rights that allowed average citizens the capability to think for themselves and do as they wish. In all honesty all Anagonia desired to do was remove any further terrorist thread and rebuild Fictions. After that, it would be up to them to screw their universe up again.

He looked up, smiling towards Ian. He would have to carefully choose his next words.

"With due respect," he said calmly, "I cannot condone an action in which innocent civilians are forced to live a way of life that is foreign to them." He tilted his head almost to a slight incline, "Change takes time. Such change in Fictions such as the introduction of Democracy cannot be force fed on the populace in a day. This is impossible because they are apparently not used to this style of government, and more or less would lead to the ultimate demise of Fictions through either shock or metaphorically having a heart attack." His eyes directed their attention to Nita, "With due respect to your nations intentions, I firmly believe that Democracy can be introduced in the future." He looked back at Ian, "But as of now, my own belief is that this is impossible and whatever government that Lady Ellison chooses to best represent the interests of her people should be highly considered until such a time as democratic ideals can be put into effect."

Natasha listened carefully to both sides of the argument.
When the Anagonian finished, Natasha spoke up:
"I agree with both of you, to an extent. A democracy is necessary in order for Fictions to be ruled by the people. However, we cannot push it to fast, least the country descend into disorder. Therefore, what we propose is that power is slowly ceded to the people."
When Natasha finished, she produced a cigarette and began to smoke it, inhaling it in small doses. She then let out a long breath. Nirvana.

While the Whiskeasians words came as no surprise the Anagonian reaction was unexpected to say the least, she had expected to face pro-democratic attacks on all sides but perhaps these people were more accepting than she gave them credit for
“You are absolutely correct, the country has been governed this way for so long that anything else is alien to the people. An introduction of democracy would lead to yet another collapse of social order.” She shook her head slightly “Perhaps one day in the future a democratic system may be in place but here and now it could not happen” she felt slightly less ill at ease now she know that not all the foreign visitors would try to force their flawed ideals on this nation. But that Whiskeasian, He had nerve, first his country launches a nuclear attack -why this had happened was still unknown but because of it Whiskeasy was the nation viewed with the most hostility and resentment both by her and the people. Then he waltzes in here acting like he owned the place, and making demands. There was no freedom in democracy and never will be.

Havok swore he noticed some sort of reaction from Nita, but considering the agreement between him and the Baltic representative he didn't give much attention to it. He readjusted his sitting position, making his ritual armor clink a few times as he rested his hands on the table and leaned forward. Things were about to get interesting. He smiled, looking to Nita again.

"Lady Ellison, I can honestly state that Anagonian intentions for Fictions are purely humanitarian." He looked at Ian, then Natasha. "While these two honored representatives may desire a long-term presence, perhaps gaining something in return by specific resource allocations, I believe its most important to clarify that the United Republic-" he glared at Eita now "-desires only to rebuild your nation and possibly route out any remaining terrorists." He smiled, almost a grin. "This action of eliminating the terrorists would purely be of Fictionese consent, and therefore Fiction Military Assets would be welcomed as with intelligence from your government supplying us with known terrorist cells so that we may properly avenge our Chief Governor's demise." He leaned back in his chair, "That vengence would be a blessing to his memory, as we would finish this ordeal by cooperation and not instigation."

She bowed her head slightly, it was undeniable. She knew it was coming the question of terrorists. The fact of the matter was this; what they would consider terrorists were really just the ultra-nationalists, vigilantes and citizens militia. Extremists yes, but useful. But how to explain that to a nation who had suffered such a loss by their hands?
We will give the appearance of helping, maybe make a few arrests. We ordered the attack, but are bloody well not going to admit it. That is what she did not say, instead she said this;
“Yes, we will of course assist you in every way we can in the war on terror. Although words are not enough, we are ashamed of what they have done”

Natasha's eyes widened, her rage building up.
How dare he even suggest that we wanted to steal resources.
She softly smiled and responded: "We find ourselves in agreement with Havok once again: our intentions are purely humanitarian and our military will only operate with the consent of the government of Fictions. However," she pushed the cigarette into an ash tray, grinding it down, and quickly produced another one, "Nita, your government must be put on the road to economic independence. Only then can your country's situation stabilize."

Ian was getting steadily worse, he had an inside frown, on the outside he was neutral and reserved, on the inside he was souring milk. Yes he knew that a military force would need to control Fictions until it was ready and stable for democracy. Yes he wanted a little something from this desert shit hole of a country. But that communist bitch wanted to turn this country into a soviet state. Not if he could help it. The old man in the corner was quite obviously here to kill as many extremists as physically possible, good for him. Someone needed to do it.
He said immediately after Natasha "You mean a socialist state don't you? May I be the first to say that such a move will devastate the economy. This country is unstable as it is, the people have a free market and that is about it, the only free thing they have. If we take that away from that they will scream bloody murder and tyranny. We must bring in foreign money, bring in people to set up Fiction based corporations. Not.." He glared at Natasha "Government owned. We need private free enterprise, endorsed by foreign companies and governments. Whiskeasy's views are far from Laissez fairé but we believe that free enterprise are at the center of any free nation"

Death Guard Commander Dmititri Gevitz knocked on the door before entering. He had been stripped of all weapons except the dirk hidden in his gauntlet and he would take extreme pleasure should any diplomat try to harm him.

Clad in full Joshian armor, he was a sight to behold. The old emperor, Emperor Josh Raskov's insignia, was painted vertical on both sides of his front plate. And 3 gold skulls on each side of his armor signified his rank.

His face was a blank sheet of "glass." A mask that hid his expressions and altered his voice. It also kept shrapnel, dirt, and the occasional bullet away from him. His leg armor was marked with dent and caked blood from who knew how long. He hadn't washed his armor in almost two months. He didn't stink or anything but he wasn't a pretty sight, well he wasn't supposed to be.

Nita looked up slightly startled when the Death Guard came into the room. Who gave the order that this person be allowed in? What did Ralkovia want from Fictions anyway? She barley suppressed a shudder as she looked the man over. She understood that the Death Guard were, for one reason or another- though she did not quite know what that reason was- still in the country but that did not mean she liked them. Quite the contrary, still this was diplomacy and personal feelings never took priority.
“My most sincere apologies, I had not been informed of your coming otherwise I would have had another seat prepared.”

Havok gave himself a brief mental grin as his outward expression turned rock solid. He sat back, observing the two foreign delegates and their responses. He didn't spot any. He mentally frowned at that, expecting much more of a reaction from two individuals whom he believed to be bogus and egotistic. Havok thought a moment about his previous statement, making a note that it would imply Anagonia's only interest being the eradication of Terrorist Cells. He would have to imply something else in the future while building a foundation of cooperation through clever diplomacy with Nita.

He turned his attention to the door, noting a Ralkovian Death Guard had entered. He frowned, outwardly. This was unexpected and not a welcomed development. He thought of way's for dealing with the individual, restraining himself because he was involved in a diplomatic meeting. Unless the Death Guard proved to be a threat or an idiot, he wouldn't take much notice of him. He turned his attention back to the meeting. He gazed at Nita while smiling warmly, "On Behalf of Anagonia, we unofficially acknowledge your countries statement of not being involved in the attacks."

He exhaled audibly, almost a sigh as he looked down for a moment. He considered his next words, then spoke. "I agree with most of what both of my equal brethren here are stating. However, I disagree firmly with the representative from Whiskeasy." Before the man could reply, he lifted a hand. "I do not insult, merely state openly that supplying foreign currency would shift the economy into a different direction. If anything, our nations should invest in the Fictionese market and create supply routes and transactions to stimulate economic growth." He lowered his hand, "Perhaps even going as far as a shock treatment and encourage a Free Market."

Natasha, furious at this point, stood up after the Anagonian delegate spoke. As her first motioned downward to hit the table, she quickly produced a knife with her other hand and smacked it against the table, timed so it would impact just mili-seconds after the first hand.
"How dare you! You claim your free market will provide stability to Fictions? All it will cause is concentration of wealth and you'll have the same shit happen all over again! It was the Industrialists who backed Hitler and it was by them that he was brought to power! You want this all over again, don't you Ian? You don't care if its a dictatorship or a monarchy, as long as you get your piece of the pie. As the long as the oil keeps flowing. That's all the matters. Your ability to buy up domestic companies. Your plan will ruin Fictions. Capital must stay in Fictions in order for economic rebuilding to succeed. Any economic plan must focus on that."
Calmed down, Natasha sat down, leaving the knife implanted in the table.
She then turned and greeted the Ralkovia delegate.

Ian smiled she was getting aggressive and she was outnumbered. He glanced over at the grubby weird man who had just walked in, this must be the Death Guard chap. The load of crazies up in the north-west somewhere. He looked like a pillac in that suit though that was sure. He didn't look particularly scary. More comical than anything. Ian ignored him. Best thing to do in this situation.

He leaned over the table and said "When you are quite done trying to destroy the table we can continue. You are suggesting some sort of socialist state? I believe myself and Lord Havok here think that a freer sort of economy would make it better. I agree with Lord Havok, it should be stimulated, but as you said it should be for the people to decide. The economic situation of Fictions is not as broken as you make it sound. The industries function perfectly and the only problem is that they have been blockaded for the past couple of months. Yes we could increase the oil output of this country. And yes Whiskeasy would benefit from that, so would everybody."

Nita cast another glance at the knife. She was sure she had said that all parties should be searched for concealed weapons but it seemed this had not happened. Someone was going to be in trouble when the meeting was over. She looked up and realised that all the guards around the room had their weapons pointed strait at Natasha, she shook her head slightly and they lowered the guns but watched the Delegate closely.
Considering what they said, well it did not come as much as a surprise that it all came down to Oil. It always did, in the end.
“Before I Give my opinion I have to say that the next person who reacts in a way similar to what Ms. Spolek did will be made to leave this meeting. By force if necessary. This kind of behaviour will not be tolerated.” She paused for a moment “But the Whiskeasy delegate is correct. Our industries which have not been targeted at one point or another or” Here she shot Ian a hostile glance “Or were part of C.Espias, are functioning as normal. It is because of the aforementioned blockade that things are not going as they usually would” the blockade had been a terrible thing for them in the past few moths, their economy relied heavily on their exports to the foreign market.

"The monarchy of ralkovia is interested in the line of succession. Will you be taking control of the country and if so for how long?" Dmitiri said. His voice was low and dull but it could be clearly understood. His voice converter was working as it should. Should it have sounded high and sharp it would have been malfuctioning.

Succession? Why would Ralkovia want to know about that...
“Well” Her voice was slightly hesitant, not from not knowing what to say, but from suspicion
“Well, I intend to govern this country until such a time when it can be considered stable, I will then resign and hand the role to someone who I feel would serve the country better in the long run” By that she meant someone who would continue running the country the way it was always run. With an Iron fist. She could not do that herself but gave the system her wholehearted support.

OOC: I think we should wait for the others to catch up before we go any further.

Sensing her suspicion, he almost laughed.

"It was natural for someone to be corrupted by this power so soon. It had been thrust on her and now she was swimming in it,"He thought to himself."Humans such interesting but predictable creatures."

"We are concerned in what will happen to Mrs. Ana Drabek. Her fate is left to you or is she still in other parts of the country," he was now driving his point home. Ralkovia would not tolerate this substitute if she planned on killing her competition. It was almost predictable if not now most likely in a few years.

Havok Agamemnon sat motionless, his eyes gazing towards the Death Guard. Things were getting very interesting. So far he concluded that both foreign delegates were here for the Oil that Fictions provided. Something about the black gold seemed to entice other nations. Thankfully, Anagonian Dependency on Foreign Oil had been quashed long ago. With extensive reserves coming from both peaceful agreements and domestic output, matched with the extensive reforms that put Environmental Reforms at the top of the list, the United Republic needed not as much oil production as other nations. A gallon of gas only cost D2.56 Denar's thanks to the fact that most vehicles complied with the extensive reforms. Havok, with this mindset, was less worried about the Oil and more worried about the Sovereignty of Fictions in the end.

The problem now was that he sensed the Death Guard wanted nothing more than slaughter and destruction. Chaos was something that enhanced the agenda of corrupt individuals, especially those governing entities that wanted nothing more than anarchy. Ralkovia was more or less a backwards nation in the eyes of Anagonian Foreign Affairs for its support of an entity such as the Death Guard, and any attempt to smash Anagonian interests in Fictions were to be met with hostilities. However, considering this meeting was not the proper place for such hostilities, he would have to use hard diplomacy as his weapon.

Havok sat up straighter and leaned just forward enough to impose upon the Death Guard that he was serious in his speech. He clasped his hands together, creating a clinking from his gauntlets. His facial expression was still cold, hard, and resolute. Finally, after staring at the Death Guard for more than a minute, he spoke.

"I do not know why your here," Havok said slowly, "and quite honestly I really don't care." He looked down at the table, "I understand this meeting is for diplomacy and the end-course for the nation of fictions, however-" he looked up at the Death Guard "-if you so much as imply your here to ruin the Fictions rightful government I will personally kill you myself." He stared at the Death Guard, unblinking, letting that sink in before continuing. "You will find that we shall know every place your degrading zombified kind stays, and we will murder you. If you have any children, we will murder them. If you have any women, we will murder them." He leaned back in the chair, keeping his hands on the table. "This I swear if you as much try to impose your views of tyranny and death upon this meeting. You are nothing more than a glorified slave of a putrid harpy, born from her disgusting womb in some hellish scene, and I will not have your kind ruin a free peoples chance for salvation and a better future."

The death guard laughed for a minute. His armor plates enhanced the laugh, clinking together as chainmail hit the ceramic plates on the outside.

His laugh was not one of nervousness or arrogance. It was almost as if the anagonian and death guard were friends and the anagonian had just told a joke.

"You're funny anagonian. You have a fighting spirit which is good and you have the resources to find us. However you have made a pivotal error in your statement. We death guard are not born and we have no relations. We don't know surrender. Retreating or giving up is not in our lessons. We know only to kill and I can easily kill both you and the whiskeasian lap dog over there within .9 seconds. The guards with their weapons still pointing at the ground would take .4 seconds to raise, and another .4 to actually draw a bead. Furthermore it would take another .3 for them to fire without risking the fiction's leaders life in a crossfire.

My orders are clear however and I will endure you're insults. We are concerned only with Mrs. Drabek. Dictators no matter how kind often want to remain in power for as long as they can like Julius Caesar and they will kill off any competition. Ralkovia is concerned only for her safety."

Havok smirked, amused at this point. He was neither insulted nor amused by the response. He was, however, internally surprised to find another one capable of understanding his viewpoints on battle. He tapped two fingers on the table, clasping his hands back together before nodding briefly to the Death Guard. "Then within those brief moments, it will be a glorious battle."

Smiling openly, he concentrated back on the meeting. Having known the intentions of the Death Guard, him having spoken it, he allowed himself to sit back quietly.

"I understand your concern over young Miss Drabek, I can assure you no harm will come to her, wherever she may be" Nita had not forgotten about the child but Ana was not even in the country and a sixteen year old posed not much of a threat. In any case, She would not kill Ana, which is what the Death Guard seemed to be implying. She didn't want this job, not really. She only took it to ensure the country would get re-built, at the moment it needed a Shepherd not a butcher and anyone else would just have continued fighting. No the country needed rebuilding and for that it needed diplomacy. She would give up power as soon as she judged the time to be right.
"What I don't understand though, is why the interest in Ana? Why would Ralkovia or The Death Guard be interested in her?"

Natasha sat down, undisturbed by the Death Guard's presence, or any of the other delegate's threats. Taking a few minutes to gather herself, she sat quietly and listened as the other delegates spoke.

"Ralkovia has its reasons," he said. Luckily his face was blocked by a mask. He had no clue either why ralkovia was interested.

Natasha cleared her throat and spoke up:
"The Northern Baltic suggests that you keep your business in your own hands. Any attempts to interfere with politics in Fictions will result in extreme consequences. Take my advice, Death Guard, stay far away from here if you don't want your pretty little face to be shot off!"

Turning to natasha, he smiled.

He pressed three buttons on his wrist and the glass went up. Beneath the armor was a creature. It was a human but his face had been skinned. His muscles clearly visible pulsed and writhed as he smiled. He took this moment to enjoy the fact that only she and the guard behind her could see his face.

"Dear girl, you are an annoyance. Either you haven't been "laid" as you humans call it in a long time or your going through your PMS. Or maybe you're naturally uptight workaholic who is a pain in the ass. However I could help you with the latter, I could rip out your spinal column in a second but you would still be a pain in the ass. Now take my advice, that if you try to insult or threaten a death guard I would suggest the next time you make a threat you make one you can back up," he said. His muscles pulsed as he pronounced letters and words.

"This is a diplomatic meeting and one to discuss peace. Now I would suggest you shut up and talk about what your nation wants or you better learn how to stand without a spinal cord."

He pressed the buttons and the glass went up. Turning back to the meeting he commented that Ralkovia has interest in helping to rebuild fictions.

Natasha let out a long laugh, followed by an equally as long drink from her vodka flask. Swallowing it, she replied, "I would have spat it on you, except that would've been a waste of good vodka." Finishing her sentence, she then proceeded to drink another long sip from her flask. And another. And another.

"Might I edit my previous statement, a naturally uptight alcoholic who is a pain in the ass. As I was saying before Ralkovia has interest in rebuilding fictions. Particularly in building its missile defense program so that this incident will not happen again."

Nita had had enough. This was supposed to be a diplomatic meeting and how could anything get done when the delegates were at each-others throats all the time?
“This meeting is either conducted in a civil manner or not at all” She adjusted her g;asses and continued speaking “As for Ralkovia's offer to help rebuild our nation, we thank you for the offer but have to wonder at what price? What is Ralkovia's stake in Fictions?”

"Ralkovia's stake in fictions is that it is a member of IFA and G-d(1) himself has expressed deep favor to the people of fiction. Ralkovian citizens have also seen the tragedy of Fiction's being nuked and have petitioned the House of council and the parliament for Ralkovian aid. Over $15 Billion dollars have been sent in from across the colonies and the mainland to "help the fiction's fund" of course this money is yours regardless of if you take our offer to help you rebuild or not.

G-d has also seen fit to offer fiction's a contract from the supercompany(2) "Keep-Off" to rebuild fictions infastructure for free. He will pay for all building materials the only cost for you would be to actually house the workers, of course these workers can bring tents and shelters along with them and it really doesn't matter to them.

Lastly, G-d wants to make sure that none of the vultures decide to scavenge for fictions resources when they decide to help. This might happen with the Whiskeasian pig who would kill his mother for a few million dollars or the Soviet drunkard who takes up drinking when nervous or uncomfortable.

But I worry more when the Anagonian says he expresses no interest in oil because they have plenty of their own but look at it like this.

I have an orchard of apple trees(3) that could feed me for many years and my neighbor also has an orchard. My neighbor dies of an illness. Would I leave his orchard alone when I have the chance to claim it for myself.

A good person might just let it die or he might not.



(1) the emperor of ralkovia. Death guard can only think of the Emperor as a G-d
(2) A company that has many different interests and branches.
(3) Death guard LOVE apples. Its the only thing they can actually taste all the other food tastes like ash. Death guard if they complete a mission get an apple.

OOC - I'm negotiating the construction of a major factory complex in Fictions here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=577807&page=9). Should I be involved in this thread?

"Well, It is nice to know that we are seen in favor by someone at least" The cast a glance around the room. Like practically the whole population of Fictions, she had grown up on propaganda and strongly supported the government that have now. She would not see it turned into a democracy and perhaps there was hope that it wouldn't
"Your countries aid is greatly appreciated, This super-company you mentioned, what would they be able to provide, and for what in return" She also was not stupid, she knew nothing came for free.

Ian could not quite let this happen. A foreign, party was trying to steal his prize! He needed to get rid of this Deathguard now. Or Fictions would be Fascist again. The one thing all parties here agreed that Facism was not going to happen. He butted in "That is quite enough. Guards, please escort this man out of here. And if you can't do that I will order Whiskeasian troops to do it. Ms Ellison may I remind you that you signed an unconditional surrender. You shall cease and desist from talking to this man or will we need to find someone who will be more sympathetic? I firmly believe that any of your aid and reconstruction needs can be fulfilled by one of our fair nations. That is to say that Ralkovia was not apart of this war and should leave now. And unless you remove those "Deathguard" in the north they will be dealt with. Now please. Just leave."

Nita could not believe this, of all the nerve this man had? How dare he order her people? After all his nation has done, how dare he even consider behaving in such a way?
The guards made no move to carry out those orders, but looked towards Nita for confirmation that would not come. Nita spoke, her voice was icy cold.
"Are you threatening me? Do you even think for one moment this country wants anything to do with you? Yes, we surrendered but that does not give you the right to act like you own the place. The Ralkovians are merely helping to put right a wrong which, I believe, your country caused! And as a friendly nation have just as much, if not more right than you to be here. On more outburst of that nature and I assure you someone will leave this meeting and It will be you. And this is an order. Any foreign troops to enter the building will be fired upon."
At those words an aide left the room, presumably to give that order.

"Well Ms Ellison, I'm sorry you feel that feel that way. But you have completely surrendered to our nation and as such you are bound by the treaty to do as we ask. Unless you want the hostilities to resume? I am more than happy to bring aid into your country but any aid from the Nation of Ralkovia comes with a price. Usually your sovereignty and I can assure you that unlike with us, you will not see it back anytime soon. And as I said before If you won't remove him, my men will storm the building. Wether you fire on them on not, there is at least a brigade of troops incoming and already two battalions within your Capital. You are actually willing to let more of your people die, for what? And I think you will find that since Ralkovia still has hostile troops on the ground, they are anything but friendly. They killed Northern Baltic troops, as did you. I'm actually allowed to tell you that a full report on the nuclear disaster is being written up. With our side of the story, rather than your genocide BS. Once again, he leaves or you face the consequences."

At least I don't have to go deal with that mess in person, David Law thought, then looked back at the screen. Matahir Law, his most promising associate, wanted some notes to help clarify the Confederacy's position on Fictions. As a favor, of course...

The next morning, Matahir Law arose, checked for a reply from David, dressed, and then took his laptop, his bags - praise Allah for Naz, such a beautiful and efficient woman - and his coat, then walked into the kitchen, saw Naz had already finished off the meal he prepared for her last night, and heard a car honking outside. Great, they're here already, he thought as he left home.

"Coffee, Matahir? You'll need it; it's a long flight to Fictions," the aide, some fresh-faced kid from the office, said cheerfully...

OOC - Fictions, does my revised offer (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14391599&postcount=130) work?

Ian could not quite let this happen. A foreign, party was trying to steal his prize! He needed to get rid of this Deathguard now. Or Fictions would be Fascist again. The one thing all parties here agreed that Facism was not going to happen. He butted in "That is quite enough. Guards, please escort this man out of here. And if you can't do that I will order Whiskeasian troops to do it. Ms Ellison may I remind you that you signed an unconditional surrender. You shall cease and desist from talking to this man or will we need to find someone who will be more sympathetic? I firmly believe that any of your aid and reconstruction needs can be fulfilled by one of our fair nations. That is to say that Ralkovia was not apart of this war and should leave now. And unless you remove those "Deathguard" in the north they will be dealt with. Now please. Just leave."

He smiled, his rage chip began to send electrical pulses to his brain, pressing something on his wrist the chip stopped. Splitting the man in half and using his spinal cord as a jump rope wouldn't be appropriate at the time. A voice in his mask interevened.

His eyes narrowed behind the glass as he looked to each member of the group,"The tragedy in fiction has gone on long enough. It would be a shame, to some, if this tragedy should be repeated. And history has an inclination to repeat itself," he turned to the whiskeasian,"...even if it is in a different spot.
Your people have been a bearable thorn in our side. Even though you created an anti-slavery alliance to try and crush ralkovian slave trading, we simply ignored or laughed at the attempts.

You funded a vile democracy.

Now you threaten us.

Ralkovians across the mainland have already voted on the complete destruction of your people, the polls were 98.8% for the complete genocide of your people, 1.1 undecided, .1 not for complete genocide. Those odds are not very good. Only if G-d had not intervened against it you would not be alive today. Now should the whiskeasian weiner dogs try to remove us, they would need a real man to lead them. And since the only men in this foreign monstrosity(addressing the alliance against GWO) seemed to have come only from the anagonians.

You think your soldiers are men and will be able to stand and fight when they see their friends decapitated bodies used as death guard armor or for fortifications. You think your soldiers will be able to stand and fight when they see their friends heads used like grenades. You think your soldiers will be able to stand and fight when we use their spines as jump ropes. You think your soldiers will be able to stand and fight when they realize that for every death guard they kill they lose 50 of their friends. Wiener dog you overestimate your strength which is pitiful. A wiener dog needs a pitbull to lead them or they are nothing but a joke

Actually I take that back you are not a wiener dog. A wiener dog has some use in life. You are more like a chihuahua. Tiny and annoying. You think you are a dog when you are nothing but an insolent rat. You try to make up for this deficiency by barking a lot but when you are kicked you whine and hide behind a big dog.

We know your kind, instead of biting you bark as loud as you can before scurrying off to the largest alliance you can find. The only difference this time was that you got cornered and left with nothing else you wet yourself and fired everything you could.

Now I would shut up dog rat before we are at a different meeting in which you are in the same place as fictions is.




G-d would pay for everything, all we would want is 3 square miles of territory for use as an air base. This of course is entirely negotiable and 3 square miles can be changed to as little territory as possible to build an air base. This air base could be confiscated at any time by the fiction government for a period of up to a year.

This air base would house both the fictions as well as ralkovian defense force.
This air base would be used to for both the defense of fictions as well as a refueling base. Ralkovia would of course provide the fuel.

Would that be agreeable?"

Ian scoffed at the thing in front of him, he changed tack and tried another approach.
"You accuse us of cowardice? You are a nation of indecisive idiots who flit between governments like moths to light. You are a cruel uncivilized nation as you yourself prove. You blast in hear thinking you are better than everybody here, you are not. How would your men withhold a cluster bombing? How would they survive a nuclear fire? How would they escape from a solid square of tanks and men as we eradicate all semblance of existence from your men. The 'big' alliance you talk of was one you belonged to not two months ago. You make it sound like we destroyed the whole of Fictions with nuclear rain which just proves your ignorance further. A single nuclear weapon was fired in response to he single ICBM fired at Whiskeasy. This was not a nuclear warhead but was capable of one. I would predict that in your position you would of retailiated a thousand fold. You know nothing of peace, or diplomacy leave this place you vile cancerous sore, you are the true bane on humanity. Take your men and leave, Fictions has seen enough bloodshed without you turning it into a guerilla stalemate. We have apologized for the use of a nuclear weapon and we will apologize again. I am here to make sure the people of Fictions grow up free, happy and without bloodshed. Just leave. Take back your offer and leave, you are unwanted here."

"Your cowardice is incredible. Your corruption absolute. Your mind cluttered with vain thoughts of glory and superiority. Unlike your nation which would response to a single ICBM from a country that has stated so many times that it has never had nor will ever have a nuke, ralkovia would have made attempts to shoot it down and investigate before launching any response. Perhaps we are not the brutes you think of us as. Perhaps your propaganda has been lying to you the entire time but oh no it can't be true. Big corporations that pay you large sums of money have told you differently.

My men would fight and survive as long as they could. We would not run away in fear and wet ourself before calling in an air force. You try to make yourself seem any less brutal. While we may be an instrument of brutality we are brave. We would give our lives to protect G-d and his people. Would your men?

We may change government but that was iniatated by you. Your idea of freeing 'slaves' killed our trade. G-d saw the true peoples suffering and shut down the institution sending ralkovia plummeting into civil war. And G-d was lost in this sea of hatred. We were abolished and hunted by the men you proclaim to be your kind. A democracy.

Ralkovia never entered your alliance, a democracy that had taken ralkovia over entered it. Your pitiful attempts to discredit us only endeavor to make your point ever more clear.

You are here to take the land. You are here to make a profit. For if you had the best in mind for the people you might have suggested cooperation. You might have suggested using us to help the people of fictions faster, but your corruption and eternal quest to gather more and more money has clouded your tongue and brains.

And a chihuahua doesn't have much brain to go around. Any attempt to remove me from this room would be a violation of several treaties ralkovia has signed giving us the moral grounds to grind you into flavor chunks for wiener dogs to eat.

Plus would your ODECON support you if you initiate the hostilities?"

(OOC: Do you have to be so PMT? It's just boring when you have super soldiers that feel no pain and are invincible. Don't surrender, blah, blah. I find it unrealistic and impossible and will only RP with you if you use humans which are good soldiers. Sorry, just my feelings on the matter)

Ian smiled, the man was on the back foot. His arguments less bold.

"They never declared the fact they did not have nuclear weapons and I believe that what you say is a barefaced lie. Any country at the receiving end of a nuclear attack either retaliates. Or surrenders. You can make all the excuses you wish, however since we 'killed your trade' we cannot help but feel satisfied. Any nation that uses slavery as a legitimate form of trade can quite happily disappear. Our troops are human, as are yours. They will flee and surrender in the face of overwhelming, no man can withstand anything. You are a barbarous nation which is quite honestly below our interest and attention.

Would ODECON help a nation whose diplomat was killed by a Ralkovian Officer in the middle of peace talks? I think so, but that would be for them to decide. And I think you will find I'm not an ambassador for the nation suggesting to build a military base on their land. Apart from that I'm waiting on you to leave."

"The way I see it, this can go two ways. Either both of you leave. Or Neither of you leave, It's your call, this can be peaceful, or it may not." And while she would prefer them to take the first option she knew there was little to no chance of that. She was half wishing she had never wrote that damned surrender.

(I am rping as MT. My death guard are just born without fear. They have no fear of death. They think the Emperor is G-d. They are like kamikaze pilots or suicide bombers. They don't care if they live or die just as long as they get to serve.)

"It is not that hard to believe and the appropriate response would have been to shoot it down before firing your own. And we never traded slaves. No nation would trade with us after you had made such a big deal.

Lastly, Ralkovia is militaristic not barbarous. And if we are below your interest and attention why would you be talking to us and to me. You are a hypocrite and a deceiver. And would ODECON risk becoming a hypocrite and lose it ranking in the world.

And as for me leaving. I await for you to talk peace like you said you would. And you never addressed the fact that you wouldn't suggest a unified cooperation. Which is funny in and of itself.

I suggest that you back off now before this escalates and someone ends up dead."

Ian turned on her snarling "Do you know how lucky your country is? Do you have any idea what is usually done in a situation like this? They execute all the remaining people high up in the government. That's you! Then they take whoever is best suited to them and put them in charge. We have decided to try something different today, something that isn't normally done because it is difficult and if you keep spitting in my and the other delegates faces by accepting military aid from a hostile nation we will be forced to act in a way that is uncivilized and unnecessary. I apologize but this is the way my government views this as I'm sure that some of my fellow delegates will agree."

" As I said before you are a hypocrite. You say we are barbaric and then you threaten to kill her. In most cases the conqueror would disband government and replace it. Not execute it. That is at least how the barbaric people of ralkovia would do it," he said mocking him. He had tried to make a lunge but the death guard had now parried. He smiled to himself. Only a little while longer.

"I never threatened her with anything, I'm just saying what is usually done in such a situation. Anyone who is considered a threat is eliminated. However Whiskeasy has never been a position such as this, we hope to use this method in the future should it arise. It is nice to see that you are starting to come around to my way of thinking, your even admitting it now" He said without a hint of humour in his voice.

"How I took what you were saying was more as a threat," he said.

( I thought we should need a break from all this debating and threatening. So here for everyones viewing pleasure something I couldn't stop loling at.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/motivation%20or%20motivational%20posters/ninja_kelly/Motivation%20or%20motivational%20posters/1220429359695.jpg?o=29 )

It was also taken as a threat by Nita, she knew very well what happened in these situations. The Whiskeasian had gone too far a long time ago, she could feel her anger rising.
"You dare to threaten me like that once more and I will order my guards to have you executed" She had not meant to say it and regretted the words at once, but there was no going back now. She had allowed her emotions to get the better of her and only hoped that she would not have to carry out her threat.

"Executed? My, my that does sound like a threat. In fact shoot me, it will make your life so much harder. In fact it could end it, executing an unarmed diplomat bearing the olive branch. There would be public outrage! Thousands more would die because you couldn't control your anger. The hostilities would resume again and with the current state of your country, troops deployments and the large amounts of allied forces on the ground it would ultimately lead to your downfall so much quicker than if you just hold your tongue. It would put my government in a better situation to dispose of these terrorists and if they so choose to take of your country they could with ease. Not that we would, but any nation could. Now either you adhere to my very reasonable demands or you shoot me. The demands are as follow he leaves, now. And you get all promised aid and a zero Whiskeasian presence on your soil by the end of March. Your call. Of course I reserve the right to make other demands as the conference continues."

"If you want the Ralkovians to leave make them leave yourself" She couldn't help it she had both feet in the grave. She felt slightly dizzy but didn't show it, everything she had once known was spinning out of control and to her the future seemed dark anyway should the Whiskeasians get their way.

"Very simply, would you allow my men to take him out and would you accept his demands? These are the two question which must be answered."

"Very well, you men may enter; but let it be noted that we mean no disrespect towards Ralkovia" She took a few moments before speaking again, she had to clear her head, she could not make any more of those outbursts "As for his demands, I don't know yet, i will have to think about it"

Ian gave a smile of victory. He thought that he had broken her down but she still continued to consider his offer. You use what you have he supposed. "Well, my armoured friend would you please the building or do my men need to escort you out?"

(I think we should wait for anagonia and northern before doing anything else)
"Please bring your men, removing me would only serve my purposes to well," he said smiling.

(OOC: I agree)

(OOC: Yup, agreed)

( http://s160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/arrondock/?action=view&current=deathguardunmasked.jpg

Death guard unmasked)

Natasha, now relaxed, saw her chance to intervene.
"Freedom of speech is non-conditional. Although the Ralkovian is indeed a Fascist, it is because we are a democracy that we must allow him to speak. If not, we become just like them. I vote let him stay."

A democracy? Speak for yourself!
"Well, I don't think I will vote as" She glared at the Whiskeasian "As it would appear that the running of my country is not for me to decide"
These people were going to ruin Fictions, she had made up her mind on that. Why could they not just let them be? The country is no threat at the moment, what difference did it make to them if one country is democratic or not?

"I have no problem with him speaking, I do have a problem with him trying to establish a military base in a currently unstable country. Also Ralkovia rarely cause good things to happen, they are unbelievably militaristic. I can see you do not want us here, Ms Ellison you are a die hard fascist, anything is better than us. Except maybe communism which is always an option if I leave." He glanced discreetly towards Natasha as she swilled some more vodka.

"Of course I don't want you to be here!" She couldn't stop herself, again the words just spilled out "What country does want foreign occupiers? I hope you never deluded yourself that your ideas would be welcomed because they are not. Since you like democracy so much, go out and ask people in the street what they think of you and your ideas and I assure you they will not be well received!"

"Well in your case I think they would make an exception. It seems the commies have more care for fictions than you with your 'peoples power.' Ralkovia was offering it mainly to help rebuild fictions. You don't think we would just land workers in a destabilized country now would you? Because it always works out when you send unarmed workers to help a country that has had extremely bad experience with foreignors. Now if you want to talk military strategy please we can do that all day, I agree with you entirely on the statement of 'unbelievably militaristic,' however I have to make the statement that you are 'unbelievably without common sense.'

I did mention that this was a 'defense force' and that his base would be for use of ralkovia and fictions. And that fictions could confiscate the base for a year. Did I not? Now your plan is to rebuild fictions so wouldn't building a military base that would house fiction soldiers be considered rebuilding. Now perhaps that base should hold a ralkovian defense force that would watch over fictions ports and perhaps shoot down nuclear missiles the next time someone forgets to shoot an ICBM down and launch a holocaust at them.

You have no room to talk about being militaristic. The last time ralkovia has ever used nuclear weapons to wipe out an enemy especially a civilian city was.....hmmm my record of the entire military history of ralkovia has some how failed. This surely can't be true. Mean old barbaric ralkovia....hasn't used nuclear means to destroy enemies. It hasmade threats but it hasn't ever done it. WOW thats surprising."

"Of course I care for the peoples power. It is blatantly obvious you don't, so why are you here? We could protect your workers, as could any nation who currently has troops here, but your idea of a defense force is ridiculous. Half the offensive armies around the world are called "Defense forces" all manner of rebuilding the Fictions army and defense initiatives will be seen to by one of the nations currently involved.

I'm somewhat disgusted that you keep referring to such a terrible accident in such a casual manner. We killed millions of civilians but we were in a situation where we were to lose many more civilians. Has your nation ever been under such a nuclear threat? We have protocol very similar to most nations in the world regarding nuclear threats. Retaliate. And we did, under extreme protest. I would however like to point out some happy moments fro your nations past, Genocide, slavery, assassinations, blackmail, intimidation and of course you are a filthy Fascist nation.

Democracy is always better for the man on the street. More say in his government, more freedom and more cash in his pocket. Fascists give little but propaganda to their people. People are born to be free, and I believe that your nation is the worst when it comes to Propaganda."

"I think you mean democracy is always better for the man on wall street."


(PWNDIZZLED

BTW thank you whiskeasy for my new signature....Ralkovia...Its unbelievably militaristic!!!)

OOC: See edited post, and keep in mind America doesn't exist in NS.

(Doesn't matter. Wall street still means market a world round. Even you know what it means. And put it back to the way it was. It was funny)

"Of course I care for the peoples power. It is blatantly obvious you don't, so why are you here? We could protect your workers, as could any nation who currently has troops here, but your idea of a defense force is ridiculous. Half the offensive armies around the world are called "Defense forces" all manner of rebuilding the Fictions army and defense initiatives will be seen to by one of the nations currently involved.

I'm somewhat disgusted that you keep referring to such a terrible accident in such a casual manner. We killed millions of civilians but we were in a situation where we were to lose many more civilians. Has your nation ever been under such a nuclear threat? We have protocol very similar to most nations in the world regarding nuclear threats. Retaliate. And we did, under extreme protest. I would however like to point out some happy moments fro your nations past, Genocide, slavery, assassinations, blackmail, intimidation and of course you are a filthy Fascist nation.

Democracy is always better for the man on the street. More say in his government, more freedom and more cash in his pocket. Fascists give little but propaganda to their people. People are born to be free, and I believe that your nation is the worst when it comes to Propaganda."

"And do you know why we do that.

1. Genocide, when you have a lot of people who naturally hate you and set up car bombs every day killing hundreds of ralkovians. Its sort of easier to wipe them all out. We gave them there own independent nations and they still would kill us.

2. Slavery, most punishments in ralkovia are slavery for some period of time. We don't like towaste money putting people in jails and saying naughty naughty. Now go be a good boy.

3. Assassinations, I'm sure you've done it some time in your history

4. Blackmail, Everyone has done it at least one time.

5. Intimidation, Well just moments ago you threatened to remove me if I didn't leave.

6. We're not fascist we're a monarchy

As for being bad in propaganda...well we don't really need propaganda most ralkovians would gladly die for their G-d. Unlike you who cower and try to strike at simple nothings."

"I have no problem with him speaking, I do have a problem with him trying to establish a military base in a currently unstable country. Also Ralkovia rarely cause good things to happen, they are unbelievably militaristic. I can see you do not want us here, Ms Ellison you are a die hard fascist, anything is better than us. Except maybe communism which is always an option if I leave." He glanced discreetly towards Natasha as she swilled some more vodka.

Natasha spat a mouthful of vodka at Ian as she burst into laughter
"Communism! Whatever gave the notion that we were Communist? Besides the fact that we are Socialist, just because you had a book rammed up your ass, does not mean that it was a history book. Rather, it was an 'Imperialism for Dummies' guide." Slamming her fist on the table, she continued, "I want you to define Communism for me right now. Heck, define Fascism as well."

"My opinion of you natasha has changed. You are quite enlightened. Disregard my previous comments


As you can see perhaps we are not the ignorant backwards brutes you make us out to be. Perhaps it is you who has made yourself ignorant by listening to all that filthy propaganda you say you don't have."

"What on earth gave you the impression I was suggesting you were a communist. You just have certain ideals very similar to that of Communism. I suppose you could define Communism as the complete nationalization of all industries. It is for the good of the worker and as such certain people take that different ways, some are totalitarian some are democratic. And Fascism, well fascists can be more easily described by what they are against then anything else."

"Well, here we are. Welcome to Fictions, Mr. Matahir. Best of luck out there!" the pilot said on arriving at the gate. Matahir didn't hear her; he was too busy reading over his notes.
There's Whiskeasy, a capitalist democratic state, the people who nuked Fictions; Anagonia, another democracy, neutral now?; The Northern Baltic, a socialist state - that would go over well; and apparently Ralkovia? Wasn't Ralkovia on Fictions' side? No matter. The important part wasn't that, after all, it was convincing enough people that we're okay...

"Foreigners Out! Fictions First!" a chant went up, in Fictin. Matahir couldn't understand it, but the rhythms, the glares, the volume all spoke to the sheer anger on the streets. At least he wouldn't have to shout them down. Not yet, anyway. Might be useful to remember that chant, of course.

Now, to enter. Matahir smoothed out his suit, plastered a smile on his face - always go in with a smile, everyone pays more attention to smilers - and stepped out of the car, met the Fictional functionary, and said gravely: "Hello. I am Matahir, on behalf of David Law, representative of the Confederacy of Defense Corporations and envoy to Mrs. Ellison -"

The Fictional aide just nodded and waved him on. Matahir paused, deflated, then followed, two aides trailing behind him.

Laughing heatedly as Ian explained 'Communism', Natasha composed herself and interjected:
"First of all, The United Socialist States of The Northern Baltic is not Communist, but rather Socialist. It is true that Communism is a type of Socialism, but we are not that radical. Having achieved Socialism peacefully, we recognize that in certain cases, it can be achieved through peace, however, we also recognize that war is an alternative.

The ideological split in Socialism occurs over the issue of reform versus revolution, as we advocate both, we are not Communist, as Communists advocate solely revolution. Also, although The Northern Baltic does follow a Marxist (or Communist) doctrine of Central Planning Economics, that doctrine is modified to allow for more local control of the system and it by no means makes us Communist. Finally, what is Communism? Your definitions of Communism and Fascism seem to allow that you can be a Communistic Fascist, which is by no means that case as the two are opposite. Communism is the worker control of everything, however such a system must be democrat as it must lead into the second stage of Communism: Anarcho-Syndicism, where the State implodes.

Do not confuse the 'Dictatorship of the Proletariant' for a literal totalitarian dictatorship. All the 'Dictatorship of the Proletariat' is, is a State where the Worker's seize all the power away from the bourgeois. Eventually, the bourgeois will become part of the Proletariat.

Fascism, on the other hand, is the complete subversion of the populace in order to expand that nation's power. There are enormous differences between Communism and Fascism, Ian. Do not get the two confused."

Finished, she slid over a copy of the Communist Manifesto to Ian. "Read it" she whispered casually.

"I thought we were talking about Fictions. How did the discussion get to Communism?" Matahir asked casually, walking in. "Never mind that. Let me introduce myself. My name is Matahir; I'm here on behalf of David Law, and am representing the interests of the Confederacy of Defense Corporations in Fictions, namely our proposal for an investment to help the economy and spirit of Fictions recover." He paused, and an aide passed out copies of a brief outline of the Confederacy's proposed investment in Fictions.

"We will build up a major aircraft manufacturing complex in City Tyrosor, the cultural capital of Fictions, with a satellite facility in City Ibea across the Bay from City Espias for short-range missile production. Before we even begin building the factories, however, we will start by building free clinics, free hospitals and free housing, both for our future employees (and their families) and for refugees from City Espias. All construction will be conducted by Fictional firms, but paid for by us; all facilities will maintain the labor standards of Fictions, apart from free housing and medical care. We are fully willing to take financial losses now to ensure Fictions' future."

"No, no. You are quite mistaken, I was not implying that Fascism and Communism can be used together. However some experts believe that instead of a political spectrum, it should be a wheel, one where Extreme Fascism and Extreme Communism meet. I understand the Revolution based concepts of Communism, and that of Fascism. But remember that when it comes down to it a Fascist Dictatorship can be very similar to that of a communist one."

He looked over towards the new person. He looked at the sheet of paper, some sort of confederacy of corporations. He thought he had heard of these people.

"Who invited the shop-keeper? It's getting kind of packed in here."

(I'm wondering where Anni is?)

(OOC: Don't know, I think he hasn't been on in some time...)

Nita Smiled at Matahir and gestured to him to sit down
"Mr. Nairns, The Defense Corporations have expressed interest in building various industries in Fictions, as you are all for the free market I think should think that you would have no problems with this?" It didn't matter if That bloody Whiskeasian agreed or not as much as he would like to think otherwise, she still ran this country and could decide what corporations may or may not have branches in Fictions.
"But Mr. Matahir, While I agree that your industries would be of great help to the economy, I am rather worried about your employes, I hate to put to fine a point on this but there is rather a lot of anti-foreigner feeling in the country so the safety of your employees would have to be considered quite carefully"
Of course she was not going to say that since the war started the government had been scapegoating foreigners which furthered the already xenophobic attitudes of a majority of the citizenry...

Matahir smiled back at Nita, then sat down, leaning back slightly in his chair. If he looked at ease, it would help put the others at ease. Especially Nita, whose smile belied her stare - one she probably didn't even notice, but that he saw in an instant. The same stare he got from the Fictional functionary at the door, from all the Fictional guards, one he was familiar with from his first job in a Saigon steel mill. The one that means you're foreign, not one of us, not trustworthy.

"Mrs. Ellison, I understand your concerns about the safety of employees here. I heard the chants on my way in - Juppis raus, Fictin yaus, if I'm pronouncing it correctly," he said. "Our goal, however, is twofold: one, we want to make our facilities as Fictional as they can be; two, we want to make our employees here as safe as can be. To satisfy the first aim, we will ensure that all employees and managers, will be locals. Further, we intend to give the facilities names in Fictin, to run them through Fictional management, and to have no foreign presence - just foreign ownership. Second, to directly provide for the safety of our employees, we would be happy to train and equip demobilized Fictional soldiers to provide security, providing jobs for those who served their country."

Nairns glared; Natasha sipped from her drink.

"Yes, That may be acceptable" She paused thoughtfully "However, you are not using our country as a source of cheap labor. We may be going through some hard times but that does not mean our economy is that desperate" She gave a small smile but it did not show in her eyes. She couldn't help distrusting them, what business person would choose to set up factories in an unstable nation unless there was a catch. It wasn't good business sense and large, multinational corporations are not known for their humanitarian efforts.

That was always the objection David had raised. They're weak now, but they don't feel weak, don't make the sort of agreements weak nations do; they feel hurt, they feel damaged, and they want to come back to power. So... yes, that would do.

"Certainly not. We never 'use' the nations we partner with; we work with them, build a relationship with them. Besides, aircraft manufacturing needs skilled labor, not cheap labor. Perhaps fifty years ago, you could build a plane with sweatshop labor and it would still fly. Today, that is not the case. Fictions has a reputation for quality military engineering and metallurgy, and that's absolutely necessary for modern aviation," Matahir replied, recalling his side of the argument. Yes, Fictions may not want foreigners. But, since that airshow ten months ago, they had to get in on Fictions. They clearly had top-notch people out there. And now that there was an opportunity for investment, David had wanted them to stay out?

She nodded slightly, at least one person still seemed to remember that they were not some backwards third world country. Yes, times had been hard recently but a civil war followed immediately by a global war had that effect didn't it?
"That's good, I'm pleased with that but.. I can't help wondering why your company would risk building factories in a country which" She waved her hand, indicating the other men and women in the room "Why you would risk setting up a business in a nation that is occupied and unstable"
She was also mildly surprised that none of the others, especially Natasha and Ian, had not interrupted or objected.

( Me a single military base and he's ready to throw me out. For Defense Corp. he wants to build the entire military of fictions back up with weapons factories etc. and not even a word of doubt.)

(OOC: Maybe it's cos he's not online?)

( no its because defense corporation isn't unbelievably militaristic. Even though he makes his money off of selling weapons. Its because he's a capitalist isn't it whisk)

(OOC: I dunno, I think if he was online he would object 'cos
A) The DC building up my army will hep ensure I remain a dictatorship as DC put no conditions and
B) If the DC gets the business deals then there may be a worry that they steal their business opportunities)

Ian looked over at the shop keeper. He was part of a good strong corporation. If it kept the communists out he was fine with it.

"I have no problem with a free enterprise being set up. However our socialist friends might. Natasha? Any problems?"

He gave her a half smile and looked back at Nita.

OOC: Pfft, I have no problems with it.

(OOC: good, good, more weapo-- I mean airplanes* -- for me then xD
IC comes when it comes)

*Of course that is not to say the planes and weapons are not one and the same (Joke)

Smiling back, Natasha casually said, "Well, it depends on the amount of protective tariffs placed on the country."

Well, that was a surprise. Trade was her most important issue? So David was right after all; Communists can be just as realpolitik as everyone else.

"We feel that this crisis, while severe, will pass. Fictions has been knocked off its feet, but it will recover," Matahir said. "That's what we're here about, after all. Making sure that Fictions recovers safely, that it does not fall back down the path of civil war or an atomic-tipped war of vengeance."

"As for trade policy, as long as our facilities are unaffected, it should not concern us," he added.

"I do not remember if you said this or not but will you be buying the land and building the factories or rebuilding the ones fictions has. And if your rebuilding the factories how long will you be 'owning' them.

Furthermore, do you have a withdrawal planned when fictions is rebuilt or will you stay for an infinite amount of time."

"We're planning on moving in to stay. This isn't charity; it's investment in a strong Fictions," Matahir replied. How naive could the Ralkovian be? He obviously wanted to paint a very blunt picture - himself the loyal ally, Matahir the uncaring corporation. Yet how would that fly? After all, if Nita had bought into it, he wouldn't be here. Matahir looked straight at the Ralkovian, considered his words, then shifted his gaze back to the room as a whole. No, save that for later, he thought.

(I don't know if you know what a death guard is but staring straight at them isn't the greatest of ideas. Death guard are soldiers who spend their entire life fighting(from day 1 to death)

"Fictions is our prime concern. G-d(emperor of ralkovia) has expressed his interest in restoring fictions to its former self."

Ian butted in "And Whiskeasy has decided that Fictions shall not be like it was, I believe that The Peoples Republic has also come to that conclusion. We don't want another enemy, not if we can help it. And round two is not something we are looking forward to."

"So you are going to depose a legitimate government to replace it with a corrupt democracy."

(Man my guy lost the death guard persona along time ago.......he shouldn't be talking. Just nodding or shaking his head and threatening people.)

"We will attempt to put some form of democracy in place. And it is totally within our right as The Dictatorship of Fictions signed an unconditional surrender. We could technically do anything we wanted. Of course that would be immoral so we will do what is best for the people of Fictions."

Ian gave a little smile of triumph, he hadn't had many of these moments recently needless to say.

"You may be in charge because you nuked his leader and destroyed most of his government but his allies could easily put you out of business fast. I would be very careful about how you act. He may have surrendered but his allies have not."

Matahir leaned back in his seat, quietly thumbing his PDA. The Ralkovian was clearly no diplomat; he knew war and threats, and apparently little else. To be fair, Ralkovia was in a similar position to his own; both were trying to wrestle their way into Fictions at the expense of the occupying powers. But, if anything, Ralkovia should've been at an advantage, as it was Fictions' ally, and what was the Confederacy to Fictions? Why did they send a soldier, anyway, intimidation? Then where was the real negotiator?

"If I'm not mistaken, Democracy is based around the will of the people am I right? If that is the case, then what if the people do not want a democracy?" Demonization, that was the key, Yes they had signed an unconditional surrender but all that did was stop the fighting- at least on an international level- allowing the nation to start running a little more smoothly, as best as it could in the circumstances. And with that, of course came the demonization of those who had ruined the country. The allies. Even with the surrender there was a propaganda campaign showing them in the wrong and of course, it was almost unheard of for a nation of the side of the allies to not be democratic. And it worked too, the strong anti-foreigner feeling that had been present since the war started helped and even if they did instill a democracy, if all went to plan, they would have their work cut out for them keeping it there.

Ian looked over towards Nita, he gave her a smile and said "Well, I believe that when the time comes we should implement a year long period of the proposed democratic alternative to this... Dictatorship. Then we could hold a referendum. See how the people feel then."

A Blackberry buzzed in his pocket the encoded message came into his, phone and then was decoded by the program installed by the Techies back at the government office. The message was from the head of foreign intelligence.

ToIan Nairns
From Adam Imhov
Subject Ground agents
We have had a team of deniable operators working in Fictions for months. They will be reporting to you soon. They have very good information on Fictional tactics and rebel movements. The head of the rebel movement is still alive and must be tracked down. He would make an ideal opponent against Ellison.
Adam

Ian smiled and said "Well Ms Ellison, I must ask what is currently happening about all the troops you had here fighting against your freedom fighters?"

“The Rebellion? That ended with the beginning of the global war. The rebels had lost most of their support and had gone into hiding, not wanting to get involved in a global conflict, troops stationed here withdrew. The situation showed no sign of returning.” Why was he asking about the rebellion? Whiskeasy was apparently uninvolved... But, there was one thing, Drabek had time and time again insisted there were Whiskeaian troops in the country which caused some tensions between the two countries even before the global war had started.
“What of your men? Those that you always deny?” Not that it mattered. The rebellion was truly over. C.Majovul was once again a law abiding city and Gracia was in C.Espias at the time. If he had not died in the Nuclear blast he would most certainly be very badly injured.

Ian did not take his gaze of her, she obviously knew about them but he wasn't going to admit it. He had a pretty solid feeling this was a secret and he wasn't going to tell anyone.

"Well, always good to check up on the situation. What about the rebel leader. This Gracia fellow? And once again I can assure you that were no Whiskeasian personnel on the ground before six am yesterday. Ah and I thought i should tell you that any military movements will have to be cleared by us, us being the allied states of Whiskeasy, Anagonia and the Peoples Republic. This is a formality as I'm sure you know."

At this point Ian looked over at the Ralkovian and said "I hope you will remove your troops from the country. You said yourself that you want to help the people and you can't do that by continuing the war."

Their govenment would do what!? What Fictions did with it's own military was no business of theirs!
"Oh dear that is a shame to hear, you see we been using our military for search and rescue operations in Espias, But seeing as you haven't given us clearance to do so i will have to call the whole thing off!" She could not keep the indignation out of her her voice, these people had no right to... to well, anything! She closed her eyes a moment to calm herself down and when she opened them again she continue, her voice slightly calmer "Gracia is dead. He was in Espias at the time of the nuke and even if he did survive he would be very badly injured. However, if we do find him alive he will be arrested and executed. That is the law. He is a wanted criminal guilty of starting a civil war and responsible for the deaths of thousands. Not even your backwards nation could say someone like that is not a criminal"

Ian knew he had touched a nerve, nothing irritated a militarily proud nation like Fictions then being given orders.

"Well, you may continue with your rescue operations but any other movements must be reported to us. How do we know you aren't going to attack us?

And remember that one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Not that it really matters."

He now knew that he had to broach a subject that Nita would hate and therefore so would the Ralkovian pig.

"This is a very important subject that ha to be sorted out today. Who will govern until a stable new government can be put in place. You aren't going to like this Ms Ellison but I vote for a coalition of Whiskeasian, Anagonian and Northern Baltic governments with Fiction liaisons and an elected council. Natasha, Mi' Lord? What are your views?"

Nita stood up indignantly
"No, no you may not! This is my country and I will govern it until such a time that I choose to put someone else in place" She didn't want the job but by God she was going to keep it! She would rather die than see Fictions run by a bunch of foreigners. They were going to run the country into the ground that's what they were going to do.
"I won't stand for this, I don't care that your occupying, you have no right to remove the legitimate government of a country! How would you like it if you were in this position and It was me telling you what to do, you wouldn't I'll bet!"

Ian looked over, he was expecting this. If not more than this but the previous power could not be allowed to continue. She would hinder them at every turn. She would oppose every extra freedom that was given, every offer of aid. She needed to be disposed of.

"Well, I'm sorry Ms Ellison. From what I can pick up from you, you are not willing to help us. You would oppose us at every turn. I believe that this country will be a lot more stable with a coalition governing it. Not just that, but someone who will actually cooperate with us. And no while we cannot order you to do that we could just continue the war and take whatever power you have and then redistribute it. It would be bloody, it would be messy. And many more people would die all because you were too proud to give up, all because you would not surrender. But more to the point what do my fellow ambassadors think?"

(OOC: I'll wait for the others, who are offline at the moment, to post first...

...Btw, are planning to assassinate her!?)

(OOC: No unless she is going to be really difficult in which case I may.... Who knows)

"Fictions has suffered greatly, and I suspect imposing a coalition of occupiers would only lead to more violence and more instability. I would recommend that Nita Ellison remain in charge of Fictions, and that you set up conditions for the withdrawal of your troops (contingent on the fulfillment what demands you have: perhaps on a referendum on national elections, or on the implementation of local elections as well)," Matahir offered. "Regardless, removing the current leadership and replacing it with a government of occupiers is asking for renewed violence and instability."

"The Fictional Council will look like the highest authority however they will take their directives from the Coalition. It will look like another Fictional government, I can assure you. But that way our militaries will have a firmer grip on the country until the last remnants of any para-military have been stamped out.

But more to the point I'm not sure it is of any business of your company to get involved with something so over their heads."

"It is our business to secure our investments," Matahir said flatly, annoyed. "I would suggest you keep Mrs. Ellison in charge of the Council, for the sake of stability and continuity."

"To replace this woman would be a mistake that ralkovia would see as drastic. And to replace her means that you will have free run of her country. You ask her to serve you her country with a silver platter. You ask her to feed you and stroke your ego on your so called 'just victory.' Just because bullets are not flying at the moment it does not mean that they can't begin again. Perhaps your homeland could be subjugated next. Divine Intervention could happen. G-d(Emperor of ralkovia) could decide that Whiskeasian corruption has gone to far. After all G-d is listening even at this moment.

And are troops will only leave when your troops leave and fiction asks us too. By asking us to leave you're asking Fictions to leave itself open to your 'capitalism' you dogs would slit the throats of everyone in your way. As you said before you want this country to be stable but for you to make it stable you would kill and oppress every fascist.

Democracy only works if the majority of people want it. You would kill and oppress that majority and raise that minority to benefit you. Should Fictions not want a democracy would you force it upon them. Would you force someone to talk when they just want to be left alone.

Democracy is based on volunteering and civic duties. Yet when the people say they don't want to volunteer will you force them with bayonets behind their backs? Drag them to the polls? Punish them for not voting?

What you are gunning for is not a democratic fictions but an easy and weak fictions that would ask how high? When you say jump.

What you are looking for is something to plant your flags on and say to the world,'this is my land.'

What you want is not a stronger fictions or a unified and equal fictions. What you want is a colony. You want someones resources and you would threaten their way of life to get to it.

You say we are barbarous....you say we are militaristic but we have some honor and aren't corrupt. Capitalism corrupts. Avarice and greed are the roots of all evil. And you and people like you who live in whiskeasy have proven it.

Your people are worthless scum who would see a fictions so weak and fragile that it would need 'Whiskeasian' protection to hold it up. Ralkovia cannot and will not stand for that. Fictions will not be subjugated, turned into a whiskeasian puppet state, nor pay tribute to your G-ds of business and capitalism.

Should you try and bully fictions. I would like you to remember that we(Ralkovia) can wipe you off the map. Even if your alliance should try and intervene on your behalf it will be to late. We shall make sure that when people ask of Whiskeasy your allies will mourn, your enemies rejoice, and your descendents remember their loss.

We shall tie a noose and choke your people like you try and strangle the honorable nation of fictions. We shall turn your country into an example of how brutal and barbarous we death guard can get. Your people will be like grass under our imperial boots. Your buildings will be perfect tinder for our charcoal ovens, and your son's and daughter's will make excellent meals at the dinner table.

We death guard are brutal in every meaning of the word but we give warning instead of nuking a helpess country. Ralkovia will be sending a defense force of 200,000 death guard should fictions current government sanction help.

That is not to mention the 10 million that can be mobilized and dropped on whiskeasy within 3 days."

Singapore
"So, the Ralkovian's ranting and raving, eh? Didn't that country become a protectorate of Tolvan or some such country?" David texted.

"Tocrowika," the reply came.

"Right. Still, silly. No point in pointing it out, unless he threatens you."

"now ranting about dirty capitalist Whiskeasy"

"Meh. What happened to your punctuation there? Didn't I tell you to text properly, or you'll write briefs the same way? I don't think a judge would uphold a contract written in SMS-speak."

"Lol." the reply came. With period.

(Defense corporations....I will look foward to the day I will get to subjugate your confederacy. Then I shall make sure that the lawyers last names are not Law...instead I shall make them have last names like Doc or Engineer. That way people will be confused. HAHAHA EVIL VICTORY PLAN.

Good night I have no clue what I am saying right now. I need my rest.

BTW I'm just kidding about the invasion/attack on you defense.....yet)

(OOC: Once again Ralk I refuse to recognize the existence of the Death Guard when you RP them like that. They are normal soldiers if not very good, that's about it. If they don't retreat or die normally I might as well just stop RPing now.)

Ian saw the threats yet he knew they were mostly empty. The "God" of Ralkovia no longer had control of his military forces. Ian cared not what Ralkovia wanted, they would stay out of this. And he found them ever so hypocritical, because as far as he could see they were a capitalist nation. The trade seemed to be privately run, the slave trade was certainly.

"I think you would do far worse in our situation. But to be perfectly honest I could care less about your opinion. You are a hypocritical nation, a savage nation and while you keep going on about the nuclear attack, we tell you again that it was a completely justified attack. Your nation would do exactly the same in our position, and no matter how much you deny it we all know it to be true. You have no free will left. Your nation is a pawn to a larger one. Carry on with your threats, The Commonwealth of Whiskeasy will carry on regardless. Now if you will stop interrupting my fellow ambassadors, I would like to know hat they think."

"But The Death-guard and Mr. Matahir are correct. Deposing me and putting in place a coalition government would only increase hostilities and violence" Goddamn Whiskeasy and every person in their godforsaken nation "And even if you plan to make us look like the highest authority what is to say we will agree to this." Not if she could help it, they would never get their hands on this nation. Fictions would never become a colony.

Natasha lit up another cigarette.
"Imperialistic policies will repeat this process. Over and over and over again."

(OOC: Once again Ralk I refuse to recognize the existence of the Death Guard when you RP them like that. They are normal soldiers if not very good, that's about it. If they don't retreat or die normally I might as well just stop RPing now.)



(So how do my death guard not exist now. So they can't make threats and they cannot lie? Then you must not recognize humans either. Just because my death guard are fanatics it doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because they live in armor like the knights of old did doesn't mean they don't exist. Just because my death guard are trained since birth in the art of war doesn't mean they don't exist.

Humans such as otto skorzeny have proven things that seem impossible can be done.(Liberation of Mussolini)

Men such as Kamikaze pilots, the S.S. and suicide bombers of today can believe in one thing or one person so much that they would die willingly for them.

Groups such as the hitler youth and nations like Sparta have proven that you can raise a child in the art of war.

Medieval Europe has proven that men in armor can fight.

Science has proven that men can be given abnormal strength through steroids. It has also proven that exoskeletons can be made.

I don't know what you wouldn't believe about the death guard. Its entirely possible for them to exist. In fact they have existed probably since the crusades.

Men who wear armor and are fanatical in their belief to their G-d. Sound familiar. Knights.

So by saying you refuse to believe in the death guard then you refuse to believe in Medieval Europe. You refuse to believe in humans. You refuse to believe in WWII Japan and by that you refuse to believe in the existence of the pacific ocean or half of the World war 2 conflict and the existence of nuclear weapons, which you have proven to exist.

Furthermore you don't believe in anatomy or science or most of history.


For you to ignore or even make a statement saying the death guard are impossible means that half of our known history is also impossible. You ignore the existence of humanity itself.

BTW the death guard and my air force are not under tocrowkian control. So I have not lost much power. I am still a very real threat.)

OOC: Fine then Ralk, I told you what would happen. Find someone else who will RP with you because you this is ridiculous. I don't want to RP with you because of the fact I find it unrealistic and just a little god-moddy. But if you want to RP like this go ahead, I wont stop you. But I won't RP with you either. For everyone else in this thread I apologize but you know my reasons, if Ralk stops being PMT and uses normal human soldiers I will quite happily RP with you all.
Adieu.

OOC - trained since birth in the art of war? So what, as babies they're taught to fight each other? Seriously, it's one thing to say that they've been through paramilitary training in school, were brought up to believe in the Emperor as a god, etc.; it's another entirely to claim that they're being trained as babies to fight each other.

People fetishize the Spartans as 'gods of war'; they lost, badly, to the Sacred Band of the Thebans, who used the tactical innovation of just overstacking one flank! They also maintained their society through the active use of force against their helots, and were a backwater after the Thebans beat them. As for the Hitler Youth - it was a fascist youth movement that raised, at the point of desperation, a small teenage army. It may have been fanatical, but fanaticism gets beat by disciplined troops with machine guns.

The ability to die willingly for another is less valuable than the ability to kill for another. The Kamikazes, the SS, the knights - they all lost. The Kamikazes only managed to take down one carrier, and mostly ineffectively harassed destroyers; the SS was a political army, fanatical and often well-equipped, yet far more effective at genocide than war; the medieval knights lost to an army of peasants at Roosebeke, to longbowmen at Crecy, Poitiers and Agincourt, and to Renaissance armies of pike, shot, and light cavalry mercenaries. About the only effective fanatical army I can think of was the French Revolutionary Army, which mainly won through effective use of artillery, excellent strategy, and the fact that their opponents generally were low-morale conscripted criminals led by ineffectual campaigners. And even they lost in the end, to guerrillas, Britain's well-led conscript armies, pan-German armies, and the massive army of Russia.

Training from early ages doesn't produce the best armies; it's unnecessary. Highly disciplined armies never needed that sort of training - take the American or Soviet conscript armies of World War II, or the British army in Sudan in 1899, or even the International Brigades.

The 'Death Guard' is possible, sure. It's also not nearly as cost-effective as raising conventionally trained troops; for the cost of your 'training program starting at birth,' an opponent could raise a larger army with sufficient discipline to stand their ground. For the cost of the exoskeletons, the enemy could just give its army heavy machine guns, anti-material rifles, and other weapons to blast through the exoskeletons - or simply build aircraft and helicopters to beat them.

When I read 'Death Guard', I think political troops - inefficient, wasteful and amusing - not scary. When I read 'Spartan-like' I remember the Spartans lost badly to Thebes, and never recovered - unlike, say, Athens (which recovered fairly well from the Peloponessian War). When I read 'fanatical' I remember that fanatics generally lose.

Sorry for the long rant.

(OOC: Alright stop this, it's getting silly. Seriously I won't stand for this kind of behavior, I want people to please try to be civil.

Whisk, don't just leave because of one person. Ralk, try to understand that other people find some ideas harder to believe.)

OOC: Okay give me 3 example of how the death guard have been PMT in this entire thread. Just because you don't like the idea of a soldier who is fanatical doesn't mean they aren't PMT. In fact the death guard would be more PT than anything else if you read their description.

Whiskeasy just so you know the death guard are simply an updated knight of medieval times. To say they are PMT is ludicrous when I have made them simple mortal men.

Whiskeasy before you whine about how the death guard are to PMT talk to greston or talk to anyone who has actually fought against the death guard. Hell talk to tocrowkia and they will all say the same thing as I have. My death guard vary along the times. If we are in MT my death guard are MT if we are PMT my death guard are PMT if we are FT my death guard are FT.

OOC - trained since birth in the art of war? So what, as babies they're taught to fight each other? Seriously, it's one thing to say that they've been through paramilitary training in school, were brought up to believe in the Emperor as a god, etc.; it's another entirely to claim that they're being trained as babies to fight each other.

People fetishize the Spartans as 'gods of war'; they lost, badly, to the Sacred Band of the Thebans, who used the tactical innovation of just overstacking one flank! They also maintained their society through the active use of force against their helots, and were a backwater after the Thebans beat them. As for the Hitler Youth - it was a fascist youth movement that raised, at the point of desperation, a small teenage army. It may have been fanatical, but fanaticism gets beat by disciplined troops with machine guns.

The ability to die willingly for another is less valuable than the ability to kill for another. The Kamikazes, the SS, the knights - they all lost. The Kamikazes only managed to take down one carrier, and mostly ineffectively harassed destroyers; the SS was a political army, fanatical and often well-equipped, yet far more effective at genocide than war; the medieval knights lost to an army of peasants at Roosebeke, to longbowmen at Crecy, Poitiers and Agincourt, and to Renaissance armies of pike, shot, and light cavalry mercenaries.

Training from early ages doesn't produce the best armies; it's unnecessary. Highly disciplined armies never needed that sort of training - take the American or Soviet conscript armies of World War II, or the British army in Sudan in 1899, or even the International Brigades.

The 'Death Guard' is possible, sure. It's also not nearly as cost-effective as raising conventionally trained troops; for the cost of your 'training program starting at birth,' an opponent could raise a larger army with sufficient discipline to stand their ground. For the cost of the exoskeletons, the enemy could just give its army heavy machine guns, anti-material rifles, and other weapons to blast through the exoskeletons - or simply build aircraft and helicopters to beat them.

When I read 'Death Guard', I think political troops - inefficient, wasteful and amusing - not scary. When I read 'Spartan-like' I remember the Spartans lost badly to Thebes, and never recovered - unlike, say, Athens (which recovered fairly well from the Peloponessian War). When I read 'fanatical' I remember that fanatics generally lose.

Sorry for the long rant.



OOC: As babies I mean they are exposed to gun fire. So they don't grow afraid of it or sometimes they do.

Also babies are the best crawlers in the world. Barbed wire and gun fire over their heads ain't nothing to them. You put some food at the end of the course and boom.

Defense I'm just saying that I take my death guard from those influences. My death guard are willing to die, I'm not saying they run into the enemy in human waves. My death guard are special ops and guard the emperor. They are very adaptable and I can change them as I see fit.

To have troops that are willing to die and can advance and do special missions that most humans can't think of doing then that gives me a very very distinct advantage and can inspire my conventional troops to do the same.

As for the S.S. part of the description that is the exact part of the jobs the death guard do. They commit mass genocide against the enemy civilians to demoralize the enemy troops.

The death guard are sometimes less then cost efficient but they are effective.

My death guard aren't all armor wearing men the only distinct thing about the death guard armor is that they all wear masks. Death guard commanders are probably the only ones who wear exoskeletons.

I've pretty much made the death guard into the green beret, marines, paratrooper, army rangers, secret service, commissars of my military.

And by spartan like I mean that the militaristic part not the collapse the economy and the human wave technique.

OOC - slight correction, the peasants lost at Roosebeke (due to tactical errors - they advanced when they should've just held their ground); they won at the Battle of the Golden Spurs before it.

Fair enough on exposing your babies to gunfire. Probably doesn't have that much of an impact, though.

Special forces are probably overrated, by the way. They've managed a few successes, but are probably not cost-effective.

Genocide typically incites resistance and desperation, not demoralization; it also inspires atrocities against the genociders' army, such as mass killings of prisoners, unwillingness to take prisoners (killing surrenderers instead), etc.

I think the Death Guard is realistic. It's like any other sort of fanatical/political troops, no more, no less.

OOC: Fictions, I am being perfectly civil. I did ask politely earlier as well as just now. I will not reply to anything else you say as ,and I quote you Ralk, "Arguing on the internet is like being in the Special Olympics, even if you win you are still retarded."

I find the fact that you have millions of fanatical, trained from birth, super elite soldiers that never surrender to be a little God-moddy. The PMT reasons have less to do with it. The fact you need AP rounds to kill them is quite PMT, the fact that he could somehow calculate how long it would take for the guards to do stuff is quit PMT, the fact that he seems to be genetically altered seems quite PMT. But honestly it is the fact that they are so God-moddy to me. Those are my reasons.

(OOC: Alright stop this, it's getting silly. Seriously I won't stand for this kind of behavior, I want people to please try to be civil.

Whisk, don't just leave because of one person. Ralk, try to understand that other people find some ideas harder to believe.)

OOC: Okay Fictions. Like I said before and like Defense has said. They are possible. Whether cost effective or not. Hell the U.S. spent 8 billion dollars on trying to make a plane fly on nuclear power. Why can't I spend a few billion myself to make death guard?

I find the fact that you have millions of fanatical, trained from birth, super elite soldiers that never surrender to be a little God-moddy. The PMT reasons have less to do with it. The fact you need AP rounds to kill them is quite PMT, the fact that he could somehow calculate how long it would take for the guards to do stuff is quit PMT, the fact that he seems to be genetically altered seems quite PMT. But honestly it is the fact that they are so God-moddy to me. Those are my reasons.

OOC: I have 15 million. That is well within my means to equip and train them. My death guard are also paid for by GWO who has some control over them.

My death guard can surrender. IF THEIR EMPEROR TELLS THEM TO. Just like Japanese Kamikaze Pilots and fanatics did when their emperor told them to.

As I said before PMT death guard are PMT. By the way they wear armor that protects them from small gun fire. They wear kevlar with nanogel and small ceramic plates WHEN they do wear armor.

So now you disprove math. It is quite easy to calculate the reflex of a normal person. Most people on average blink at a certain speed. Most people on average have a certain reflex time. My death guard all know that average and just because they can do math in their head doesn't mean that they know for sure. One guard may have that exception and shoot within .4 seconds.

Hell my death guard could be bluffing and not have any clue what the hell he is saying. Yes I have said winning an argument on the internet is like winning the special olympics but I am quite hypocritical. My death guard are MT if you want me to make them PMT I can easily change them. If you want them to be FT I can easily change them.

One of the reasons I use the death guard is because it is sort of easy to just fill in the blanks on an ORBAT instead of saying 5th army and work it down from there. Instead I can just say I send 2 armada's of death guard and everyone nods in agreement.

OOC - the never surrender part is suspect, as with the sheer numbers of fanatics, even after defeats. Some will remain fanatical, sure; others will surrender. There were deserters and prisoners from the Hitler Youth, from the SS, even from the Imperial Japanese Army. 485 Japanese prisoners were taken at Guam, and 313 at Tinian, for instance - fewer than other armies, but not none.

Ralkovia, don't treat your Death Guard as invincible or unshakably loyal; treat it as human, if fanatical.
Whiskeasy, accept that the Death Guard exists, and is heavily propagandized, but isn't nearly as good (and some members not nearly as fanatical) as is claimed.

( I never treat them as invincible I do treat them as fanatical...and thats about it. Sure some may betray their g-d but those I consider are defects and are usually killed off. However it is not impossible and I have created special squads of soldiers known as the chronzonal guards to take care of rebellious death guard. Its happened once or twice in my history.


And by some I mean probably 10,000 in the entire death guard organization.)

OOC: Whatever Ralk, will you make them MT. So they use accepted mass produced body armour, they will break in the face of extreme force and psychological warfare. The fact that they are elite troops that have feelings and have rational thought, who are fanatical at best. If you will go with that sure I will continue.

(1st part done however the helmets will stay on[cobra commander style].

2nd part not so much they will hold their lines until the last man or until the emperor tells them to give unless they are part of the defects and this commander isn't a defect. The whole reason behind the death guard is that they don't break down under most pressure. They will retreat under normal circumstances but if the Emperor should give them a directive of saying no retreat no surrender. They won't retreat nor surrender.

Death guard do have rational thoughts otherwise they would not listen to the emperor but as for feelings they have less. Ask anyone who has special forces like the death guard(GWO, Void Templar, etc.) and they will all say the same thing. I'm not saying that some won't retreat or give into psychological warfare but the vast majority will not.

The human mind is not up for time phases. The human mind has remained the same or almost the same from the beginning of modern man. You can't assign a time era on human behavior. You can assign one on human knowledge and thats about it.

Human Behavior and time have little to do with each other on a group. Individually this is very distinct but if you look from the beginning of humanity to the end you will see that are brains have remained quite the same.

To make me give up that central part of the death guard would make the death guard non-existant as a whole.)

OOC - Ralkovia, at least make them human. Strange, fanatical, but human - they'll break at times, they'll flee at times, they'll give up (cursing themselves for their inability to better serve their 'god' the whole way), etc.
Also, make them flawed. Have them make mistakes - perhaps they're too stubborn to retreat from obvious traps (after all, 'god will provide'), or have a penchant for useless suicide charges?

( They are human. My death guard have always been human. They will break a couple of times. They won't give up however(death guard ideology is better dead than captured);
They are extremely stubborn and won't retreat from obvious traps but they won't go into useless suicide charges unless in agro[lots of adrenaline] or if the emperor asks them to.)

OOC: Even Islamic extremists flee. And they kill themselves.

OOC - returning to the thread itself...

Natasha lit up another cigarette.
"Imperialistic policies will repeat this process. Over and over and over again."

Now that's the socialism I was expecting, Matahir thought. As Ian and the Ralkovian (who never gave his name, now did he? Did he have one?) kept arguing, Matahir grew increasingly unconcerned by them, and focused on the other delegates. He wrote out a quick note, and had an aide pass it to Natasha.
What do you suggest happen? What do you see as the future of Fictions?

(As I said before Death guard will retreat just not surrender. Death guard don't serve as anything special on the large scale war. Death guard don't 'automatically win' battles just because they are there. They can't kill 1000 troops a second. Or kill country leaders with a sniper from 4 miles away. Death guard can't run through walls or have a single death guard defeat an entire enemy army. Death guard on large scale war fare don't make much of a difference then if I had the same amount of conventional troops.

The purpose of the death guard are for all intensive purposes to serve as the Emperor's personal guards and as experts in urban warfare. They are excellent when used in small scale building to building fighting with winding corridors and rooms just like the palaces of the Emperor but I have begun to manipulate their role and make them all adaptable.
A tank firing at them can kill them. A car hitting them at 30 mph can break their bones.
They however have no real sense of fear. They can be anxious or nervous. They can be happy or sad. Depressed or optimistic but when they are told that G-d needs them to die to accomplish his goal the death guard will throw their lives away to accomplish it.

To me that is the beauty of humanity. That is the beauty of life itself. It is also its darkest side. The fact that someone can genuinely believe in a cause and die for it. However it is also an ugly poison that someone can also kill for that cause.

My nation as a whole is based on my perception of life. My nation is a satire of the human spirit. Something so genuine and beautiful but it is easily corruptable and twisted into something so horrible and wicked.

Also, Death guard are mostly used for character Rps or wars where individual characters matter.

OOC: Fiction and Ralkovia, talk to me on MSN please. ash_7_10@hotmail.com. Fiction you got msn right? Because its about high time I ended all this chatter.

(OOC: Look, let us just end this damn OOC chatter and get on with the RP ok?

EDIT: Yes fighter I have msn: xres@hotmal.co.uk)

OOC: Basically I'm getting bored of asking what you guys want so I'm going to do what normally happens when people give an unconditional surrender. If NB and Anagonia agree I will make a new thread. There will be no secret appearances and it will simply be there so we can write up a treaty that we all agree with and that you, Fictions, will have to sign. Or not.

Ian was sick and tired of this. If anything this was a meeting to probe what kind of women Nita was. It didn't really matter he had decided. He wanted to discuss what they would put in the treaty with his fellow victors but people kept interrupting and arguing. Nita would hate anything they suggested so they might as well do it in peace.

Ian coughed and said "Well now we know what Ms Ellison would like in the final treaty I suggest, Natasha Mi' Lord and myself go away from you fine people and talk about what will go in the final draft."

"I suppose my role here is done. Email me the final draft, and I'll comment if there's anything that would particularly impact our interests," Matahir said. Time to go home!

(OOC: Haven't got take to make in IC reply, but I'm a little confused, what is happening with Fictions?)

OOC:Well, I want to discuss the treaty without being interrupted at ever turn, this id just so we can get this treaty done.

(OOC: What do you think the best way to draft a treaty would be?)

(OOC: People do realize that if nothing is sorted out I'm just gonna remain a dictatorship yea?)

OOC: Well unless NB and Ana post tomorrow I will do it, but I will make sure their interests are included.

(OOC: Ana has not been online for a few days now and i'm not sure what TNB wants, but yea, ok)

(OOC: What about my interests xD your not going to forget about them are you?)

OOC: Working on a first draft now. And what interests? Last time I checked you were complete under our power! XD

(OOC: My interest pretty much is this: not a colony)

OOC: Have I not said from the beginning I would not make you a colony? I want to steal your oil.. But hey that's it!

(OOC: good, good xD

well, not good that you want to steal my oil, but good that your not colonizing me

hehe, good job Fictions has never been interested in colonies or I may have been forced to hand them over, like the treaty of versailles [joke])

Treaty of Aquarius

Preamble

To set in place plans and development aid for the Nation of Fictions. Also include details on a final government structure until such a time that a democratic referendum can be taken to decide Fictions future.


Article I

Part One

A development committee made up of Fictional, Northern Baltic, Anagonian and Whiskeasian Economists and Businessmen will be charged with rebuilding and enhancing the Fictional infrastructure as well as repairing and enhancing the Industrial sector.

Part Two

Due to a request made by the Northern Baltic Government no foreign owned corporation or company may own more than 49% of a large business as the Fictional Government will own the rest with the right to sell their part or shares of the company to any person and or company.

Article II

Part One

The Fictional Armed forces and Police Service shall be decreased by 25% and shall be put under the command of Coalition Forces. For re-training and and re-assigning of positions. All civilian Para-military and militia units shall be demobilised and disarmed.

Part Two

All military peacekeeping shall come from the nations of Whiskeasy, Northern Baltic and Anagonia. These forces shall act as separate forces for separate districts. A close line of communications will be kept between all nations as to help for a co-ordinated task force. Forces shall be in place for a minimum of six months and a maximum of three years. They shall also see the retraining of the Fictional Police and Armed Services.

Article III

Part One

A political system that incorporates the development committee as well as the three peacekeeping force commanders will be put in place. The current ruler will represent the former Government although they shall have no overall control of Fictions until the Referendum. A council which shall be elected in by the Fictional people will do the majority of the governing.

Part Two

Basic Human rights shall be given to all Fictional citizens. Such as The Right to Vote for any democratic party. The Right to a Fair Trial, The Right to Assemble in Peaceful Protest, The Right to a free Life, The Right to a Private Life, The Right to Freedom of Religion.
Political Parties may be freely established and run as long as they are peaceful and pursue a democratic means. (OOC: Did I forget any important ones?)

Part III

The A.M.A.P.P.M.I. shall be disbanded. So shall all Death squads or propaganda units. The media shall either be continued without censorship or sold to private interests.

Vote for what, i think you should mention something lie being able to set up political parties or something.

NO wanna disband AMAPPMI xD

OOC: Yep, your right. I will edit that in now.

Ok a couple of questions


The Fictional Armed forces and Police Service shall be decreased by 25% and shall be put under the command of Coalition Forces. For re-training and and re-assigning of positions. All civilian Para-military and militia units shall be demobilised and disarmed.

What do you mean by Re-training and re-assigning?
The 'civilian-paramilitary' may cause problems because, while there are registered citizens militias, there are also those citizens that own licenses to have weapons and tend to join in when they find a cause they like and as long as its not against the government or anything it stands for it's generally accepted. Are yo suggesting removing all citizens rights to bear arms?


The A.M.A.P.P.M.I. shall be disbanded. So shall all Death squads or propaganda units. The media shall either be continued without censorship or sold to private interests.

You do realize that AMAPPMI is one of the largest employers in the country, shut it down and millions will be out of a job, that is not to mention that AMAPPMI is not only the propaganda sector and public surveillance sector it also owns the nation's intelligence agency and "thought/secret police/gestapo".
As for the death squads, that means getting rid of the entire riot police and those who carry out capital punishments.

I'm not stopping people the right to bear weapons but I suppose we might as well crack down on that. Remove all automatic and large caliber weapons from the commercial area.

Well, luckily getting a job will be very easy in the new industrial fictions. And yes removing your gestapo is certainly a good thing for us. However you could always reassign your Intelligence forces to a separate agency.

Your police force will be trained in riot control, no need for the death squads. But people found guilty in a fair court may well receive the death penalty in your country. What crimes get the death penalty? As we may need to alter some of your laws.

To: Whiskeasy, TNB, Anagonia, Fictions
From: David Law, CoDC
Re: Treaty of Aquarius, Article I-2

Does this impact the agreement Luis Aviation made with the government of Fictions to establish new manufacturing complexes in Fictions, or only any proposed purchases of Fictional companies by foreign individuals, firms or governments?

Crimes With the Death Penalty:

-Murder (Exceptions: Wartime: army + Citizens Militia)
-Rape
-Espionage (Foreign agents only- hey, they don't exist ;))
-Conspiracy to undermine government authority
-Political Dissent
-Inciting Riot/Breaking the Peace/Protest (Exceptions: When in favor of government held ideals and against dissenters)
-Belonging to any religion or religious organization that is not NewChristian (Exceptions: Atheism)
-Terrorism within Fictions (Exceptions: When in favor of government held ideals and against dissenters)
-Illegal Drug growing/distributing/smuggling
-Illegal Immigration (Foreigners only)
-Treason
-Kidnapping and the victim dies

EDIT: I only just realized my population is over 500, I can do custom nation type thinggys now ^^)

(Wow you are really small fictions I thought you were much bigger)

(Wow you are really small fictions I thought you were much bigger)

haha xD nope, I'm just a 'lil 08

OOC:Well the following things will now be punishable by death.

-Murder (Exceptions: Wartime: army)
-Rape (In serial cases)
-Espionage
-Treason

And CoDC I will get back to you on that.

Your slowly getting rid of everything that makes Fictions, Fictions! xD

I can always bring in my allies. My death guard don't even need to fight.

OOC: And I will bring in mine and whoop you. Don't forget we have Stevid and Independent Hitmen.

And yes, only the outrages laws were removed, hell you can still discreetly torture them.

WOOT! HELL YEA!

...I really should not have reacted that way me thinks O_o

(What do you mean outrageous laws? All me laws are incredibly reasonable xD)

(In the end though I can bring in more power players.)

Political Parties may be freely established and run as long as they are peaceful and pursue a democratic means. (OOC: Did I forget any important ones?)


So does that mean I can't have a nationalist/ultra-nationalist party?

(OOC:I'm sure you can.)

So does that mean I can't have a nationalist/ultra-nationalist party?

No it means you can't have a part which calls itself the ultranationalist party but uses it as a cover to attack people. Like the early Nazi Party.

(Hey Odecon isn't the only alliance on the block and its relatively new)

But I can still have an ultra-nationalist party that will, once voted in, bring the country back to how it was?

Also, the council and the parties will have to be voted in, you can't just suddenly put in a democracy, especially not to a country that has never had one and has been brainwashed to believe that democracy is a terrible, unstable and unreliable form of government

OOC: And I will bring in mine and whoop you. Don't forget we have Stevid and Independent Hitmen.

And yes, only the outrages laws were removed, hell you can still discreetly torture them.

OOC: Just for the record, it's best to consult with me before throwing around the idea that ODECON will be going to war. If Ralkovia attacks you, of course we will, but as I haven't been following the situation well I'm not sure if you're arbitrarily suggesting that we would get ourselves involved in something like this...

OOC: I'm not saying it is Ralk.

And yes, yes you can. But I presume that at least some people, even rebel sympathizers would vote? And once the people see that they have more freedom, money and jobs surely they would feel better about democracy?

Hey if you look at the confederates even they held bitter feelings after the war.

Yes, they may see that, but it will come as a huge shock and Fictions people in general don't much like change and they dislike foreigners more and of course, who was it that forced them to be that way? Not just a foreign nation, but the one that nuked them (Which they will never forgive you for i'm afraid)

(Whiskeasy not everyone is like the japanese. They got nuked twice and now they love america. A little to much radiation in the brain.)

OOC: Not expecting them too. I would be shocked if they did. And keep in mind I won't be the only foreigner on the streets.

(well how it stands the death guard are still in your country. However for the sake of whiskeasy saying they don't exist I'm changing the death guard with the Sturmguard. Trained by GWO's soldiers and the death guard, they are humans, but they are even more violent than the death guard. Thus you can't deny they don't exist when they skin whiskeasian soldiers alive and then pour oil and watch as they burn.)

OOC: Fine but you know what I said earlier.

(Read above. If fictions okay's it. The sturmguard are going to replace the death guard. I gtg now.)

OOC - don't your troops have a bigger problem - dealing with the fact that its Emperor lost, and that its compatriots are forced to confront Toc's occupation?
As for Fictional democracy, if it even survives, I could see it going towards one-party institutionalization, like the PAP of Singapore (probably more like them than like the PRI of Mexico; I could see a nationalist, semi-conformist party doing well on the basis of 'restoring Fictional values against corruption by foreign occupiers' much more so than on the basis of machine politics and centrism).

Ok, so lemmie see if I understand it now it's been clarified i underlined the bits I changed based on my understanding o what you told me:

Treaty of Aquarius

Preamble

To set in place plans and development aid for the Nation of Fictions. Also include details on a final government structure until such a time that a democratic referendum can be taken to decide Fictions future.


Article I - Business and Development

Part One

A development committee made up of Fictional, Northern Baltic, Anagonian and Whiskeasian Economists and Businessmen will be charged with rebuilding and enhancing the Fictional infrastructure as well as repairing and enhancing the Industrial sector.

Part Two

Due to a request made by the Northern Baltic Government no foreign owned corporation or company may own more than 49% of a large business as the Fictional Government will own the rest with the right to sell their part or shares of the company to any person and or company.

Article II - Military and Police

Part One

The Fictional Armed forces and Police Service shall be decreased by 25% and shall be put under the command of Coalition Forces. For re-training and and re-assigning of positions. All civilian Para-military and militia units shall be demobilised and disarmed.
Automatic and Large caliber weapons are no longer to be available to civilians.

Part Two

All military peacekeeping shall come from the nations of Whiskeasy, Northern Baltic and Anagonia. These forces shall act as separate forces for separate districts. A close line of communications will be kept between all nations as to help for a co-ordinated task force. Forces shall be in place for a minimum of six months and a maximum of three years. They shall also see the retraining of the Fictional Police and Armed Services.

Article III - Politics, Human rights and the Law

Part One

A political system that incorporates the development committee as well as the three peacekeeping force commanders will be put in place. The current ruler will represent the former Government although they shall have no overall control of Fictions until the Referendum. A council which shall be elected in by the Fictional people will do the majority of the governing.

Part Two

Basic Human rights shall be given to all Fictional citizens. Such as The Right to Vote for any democratic party. The Right to a Fair Trial, The Right to Assemble in Peaceful Protest, The Right to a free Life, The Right to a Private Life, The Right to Freedom of Religion.
Political Parties may be freely established and run as long as they are peaceful and pursue a democratic means. (OOC: Did I forget any important ones?)

Part three

Only the following crimes will still be eligible for the death penalty:
-Murder (Exceptions: Wartime- army)
-Rape (In serial cases)
-Espionage
-Treason

Article IV- Police, Media and Propaganda

Part one

The A.M.A.P.P.M.I. shall be disbanded. So shall all Gestapo, Death squads or propaganda units. The media shall either be continued without censorship or sold to private interests.

Part two

Essential services previously run by A.M.A.P.P.M.I. - such as intelligence, Will be put under control of separate agencies.
Police forces will be trained in riot control so death and execution squads will not be necessary.

(DC is right by the way, what he said is quite likely to happen)

OOC: There you go, a perfectly good treaty.

*Sniff* talk about restricting my liberties to oppress my peoples :(


xD

And I have to sign this do I?

Haha, I just realized that you, TNB and Anagonia are like the 'big three' In this whole thing ;)

OOC: Oh yeah! And yes you do need to sign I will get an IC reply for the treaty up later.

Wait, a few more things:

You mention a referendum, when will it happen and what will it involve?
What, if any, limitations on political parties are there?
I have to keep some of my surveillance for national security- Hey look at britain, you can't move for CCTV in some areas of london. And if I am doing that, a lot of the AMAPPMI people already know how to use the equipment so it would be easier to keep them then train someone new.
When and how will the council be elected, I mean, there are no parties in place.
As for the media, they may even continue to practice self-censorship because that is they way it has always been.

Referendum will be when the country decides it's future... We can RP or skip to the new government you choose. Just keep in mind of the several armies watching it.
The limitations is that if they have their own para-military wing which attacks people they can't really be a party.
And yes, the surveillance officers from the AMAPPMI would most probably transfer to the police forces.
Parties are not necessary for the council, anyone from Fred the builder to John CEO can be on it as long as they get enough votes.
And the media may well do that, but I know my own company will broadcast to Fictions. Most media outlets want to tell as many truths as they can, they seem to think that is their calling.

Alright.

But getting your average randomer off the street as long as they get enough votes, sounds socialist to me xD
Any cook should be able to run the country.
~Vladimir Lenin
Besides, you do realize that the majority of people have no idea how to run a country.
also, think about it: your average citizen of Fictions-- do you really want one of them to be able to have a say in how the country is run and what happens? Do you think they will listen to you? I mean, add on top of anger over the nuke and occupation the general paranoia and xenophobia of your average citizen...
Also, people of Fictions have no idea how an elections should be done.

by the way, I won't be able to get online tomorrow

No problem, those are all just minor problems. Admittedly only the educated and people who had rebel sentiments would get in...

So the elections will be rigged

(Back btw)

OOC - don't your troops have a bigger problem - dealing with the fact that its Emperor lost, and that its compatriots are forced to confront Toc's occupation?



(The Emperor never 'lost' the war happened years ago before the revolutions. The war went into a series of on and off cease fires where we were at war but no one was fighting. It was sort of like America and Germany after WW1. America didn't sign the peace treaty with germany until almost 4 years later so they were still officially at war.

Tocrowkia came back up when the Emperor regained power. We then just had a little meeting and tocrowkia wanted me to pay her war debts. I refused and then she changed the treaty to Ralkovia becoming her protectorate or face losing all my colonies. I chose to become a protectorate. However my special military(Death guard, sturmguard, chronozonal guard, etc.) remain firmly in my control. She controls my actual military only when she is at war. Any other time it belongs to me completely.

Right now though TUMOR which comprises of a few large military orders in ralkovia won't accept the tocrowkians, while they are made up of about 200,000 troops altogether they are the only ones actually fighting the Tocrowkian occupation, which is against the Emperors wishs. So my troops don't have any real concerns and if I wanted to I could probably attack and have a vast majority of my allies also support me. However whatever fictions wants I will do.)

*pokes around and notices the treaty*

*pokes around and notices the treaty*

Seeing as I haven't signed it yet, your still in time to make suggestions/changes

Seriously, What i been meaning to say is this; You seriously cannot force democracy on them, the country is unstable enough as it is without forcing something COMPLETELY new on them, something they never done before. There will be riots.

I mean, take on top of cutting the military (Which the country is very proud of) and removing the militias (There are many members) and cutting down on owning firearms (The citizens hold this right dearly) -- all this would already cause riots.

Well, on top of that forcing a new ideology on them would just be catastrophic.

My 666th post... I only wish it would have been something more interesting xD

Well that's why I said the referendum would happen at a time when the country was stable. To begin with it would be very similar to what it was always like but with less oppression on your behalf and more oppression on my behalf. For example I will be stopping them from joining their militias and in exchange they can talk out against me, be gay or have their own political party.

O.O your post-count is 666 creepy...

Talk out against you? You will be getting ALOT of that

Meh, you are the new Iraq, Fictions. I'm afraid to say that is the only way I can describe your situation.

LOL, it's ok, I tend to think of myself as being a second Iraq too... O_o

I guess that makes you america and ergo: GEORGE BUSH HAHAHAHAHAHAHA (Joke)

And that must make me the militant islamic extremist from Iran and Syria who wants America out of Iraq. OH NOES I'VE BECOME THE VERY THING I HATE MOST!!!!

except there is no islam involved... or iraq or america...


there are militant extremists involved though lol

*sigh* i see more riots and instability in my future... Will Fictions ever go back to being the 'peaceful' place it once was? I'm beginning to doubt it...xD

TNB has a version of the treaty that could be used instead, people's opinions?



Article 1 – Business and Economics
Foreign companies are allowed entry to the nation of Fictions, provided no more then half of the money stays inside the national boundaries of Fictions. *Also, all outgoing profits will be taxed 15%. *A tariff of 10%, in order to protect Fiction's weak home-grown industries, will be recommended to be put in place to ensure those industries are not overrun by cash-filled foreign investors. *Furthermore, a strong central bank, with powers to control the money supply, interest rate, etc., will be recommended for creation.

Article II – Military
The Armed forces shall not be decreased, but several high ranking leaders shall be removed and put on trial. *For between a year and a year and a half's time, the security of Fictions shall be managed by a joint force of Anagonia, Fictions, and TNB. *This force will be responsible for retraining the Fictions Army forces, supplying them with means to defend themselves, and defend Fictions from any hostile foreign invaders. *The actual time spent in Fictions shall be decided by a council comprised of appointed Fictions government officials, as well as International Peacekeepers. *The council will base the time spent on improvements in Fiction's government system and will also be given the power to try foreign soldiers for human rights abuses.

Article III - Justice
The right to a fair trial by a jury of peers will be pushed for adoption. *Military tribunals will be outlawed completely. The right to petition, assemble, and a general governmental tolerance of different religions is recommended for Fictions.

Article IV - Free press
Five months from now, media reform is recommended for adoption. *Though it is recognised that the reform cannot take place immediately, eventually it is recommended. *It is also recognised that freedom of the press is necessary to ensure the stability of any democracy and without a free press, Fictions will by no means be a democracy.

Article V – Politics and education
The current political system will stay as is, though, as more money is concentrated into education (it is mandated by this treaty that 1/3 of the budget is spent on education) freedom of speech is recommended in order for the political process to open up. *
After a little less then a year, colleges will finance political clubs (1 for each college). *When elections are held for the President of those clubs, power will slowly be given to the people in the manner of Democratic Centralism. *If the political system of Fictions is improving, foreign governments will have no involvement in it.

Article VI - AMAPPMI
The organisation of AMAPPMI will be split into two organisations. *The first organisation will be given the powers to secure domestic security, but will not be given the powers of arrest and search warrants. *The second organisation will be given those powers. *The two organisations must work through the courts in order to allow themselves access to the information or power the other possess. *Any violation of this will be punished by law with a mandatory min. of 2 years in jail.

Hey I got cut right out of that one! And too socialist for me. I'm capitalist first.

Though I like his politics idea, I couldn't think of one that bring diplomacy steadily in. The only problem is that it means the democratic parties would all be very similar. They would all be middle to upper class young people, no diversity at all. Unless of course college is free in your nation?

The main thing is he says "suggested" and "encouraged" none of which makes any real change. Fictions can just turn back to what it always was. Therefore completely going against the whole point of this war. What is the point of not making any change to a system that caused/lost a huge war.

The AMAPPMI still have the right to block, surveil and hinder
the people, the government still has all it's powers such as brutal killing of civilians. It just isn't as much of a tough treaty and in my opinion not what I'm looking for.

We could find a half way point, If you like I could go through them both and make an entirely new one that tries to please both of you?
No Unis and colleges are not free, you have to pay (Just cos education is nationalized don't mean there're gonna make a loss out of the deaL)


btw, it's still unofficial but I have agreed to be Anagonia's protectorate.

Ah, Well Anagonia... Who said they weren't going colonial? I feel like everyone was expecting me to colonize but no. I didn't.

And yeah you should try and make a middle path, coz mine is going to be bias. Well I suppose yours is as well but there you go. I simply commented on the College thing because it means you will not have a truly democratic society as only a small section of the population will be able to have their own political parties .

haha, I started writing out my own ideas for a new system and I have taken like, 9 pages of my notebook and I'm still not finished xD

...and that is just the Politics section lol

I dunno what you will think of it...
For simplicty, I'll post it in installments, the first intallment will be my suggestion for a political system, which you can approve of or not, but give reasons why if you don't like it. I think by posting it in installments it should be able to sort out each article to everyone* satisfaction and then by the end of it have a treaty everyone is happy with

*Fictions approval- nice but not necessary xD

Article I~ Politics and Government

acknowledging Fictions' need for gradual progression into democracy the following system is suggested;
On a National level, Fictions will have an overall leader who will be known as 'President for Life' on a National level this person will have the same powers as leaders before. On a Local level, Cities and their corresponding regions will be governed by an elected City Representative who will run the city according to their parties ideals while remaining in the laws of the country.
The CR will have powers to pass Region specific laws and they will choose how the city functions, however major expenditures and laws will have to be approved of by the PFL.
CRs will also be part of a National Council which will meet three times a year (Once every four months) and discuss issues dealing with the betterment of the country and plan for the future. Emergency meetings will be held when necessary.
The system ought to be integrated over a period of three years and is to be carried out in stages.

Section A~ Three year plan

To be completed over a series of months that should come to completion three years from now, allowing for gradual acceptance of a new system.

Step 1- No visible changes in country politics, Leader will become known as President for Life.

Step 2- Discussion of differing politics will no longer be considered a crime.

Step 3- A single political 'club' may be opened in each university, at this moment they will function as a debate club or somewhere for people with general interest in politics to attend

Step 4- After paying an initial grant, parties will begin to be allowed to form and register. However they will have no say in government on either a Regional or National level. This time should be used to organise and get members and supporters within their region.

[END OF FIRST YEAR]

Step 5- A census report on party membership will be gathered, parties that have over a set amount will be able to continue, Those who have not met the national requirements will have to pay a second grant should they wish to continue.

Step 6- Parties will select a suitable candidate, how they wish to do this is up to them, this candidate will then register as a Regional Candidate and they will be in charge of gathering support for their parties.

Step 7- Lead up to voting, as a new concept the months leading up to voting will be closely monitored and national security levels will be heightened.

Step 8- Voting begins. Each regional party should have been gathering supporters and votes will be cast by the people to choose their CR.

Step 9- Votes will be counted for each Region and results are made public.

[END OF SECOND YEAR]

Step 10- The winning candidate will work along side the non-elected CR and they will make joint decisions, this is to get the CR-Elect a chance to find out more about regional control and how running the regions work.

Step 11- The CR-elect will have primary control but will still have to refer back to the Non-Elected CR

Step 12- The Non-Elected CR will step down and and the CR-Elect will full regional control.

Step 13- The first national Council Meeting under the new system will be held. Ideally at this point the system should be fully integrated and functioning.

Section B ~ President for Life

The PFL will run the country on a national level. He or She can pass national laws and major Region specific laws must be approved of by Him/Her. They will remain in this role until they die or resign.
In the event of the PFLs death, the National Council will run the country while preparing for a national election where one of the members of the National Council will be voted in as the next PFL. The CityRegion they come from will have a new Local election to find their new CR.

Section C~ Parties

Parties will have free reign over what Ideals they wish to follow and in the event of them being elected to represent their CityRegion run it according to their ideals under the conditions that they remain within the laws of Fictions and that all major Region specific laws they wish to pass, or major expenditures will have to be approved of by the PFL.
To be considered a legitimate party they will have to pay an initial grant of 10,000AK This is to ensure that they are serious about joining the political scene. How they get the money to do this is their choice but illegal activities will be treated to the full extent of Fictions laws.
Parties must have a membership rate of 1% of the region population by the first census or they will have to pay an extra 2,000AK to continue as a party.
After Six Years a new census will be done and parties must have a membership of 5% of the Region population in order to continue, should they not, an extra 2,000AK will have to be paid to remain as a party.
After that a census will happen every three years with the % amount to be worked out six months before the census begins and the grant to be paid will remain at 2,000AK
If a party had met the status they will not need to pay the grant.

Section D~ City Representatives

The City Representative will be the Governor of their specific CityRegion. They will be elected by the people and serve eight years in office. As a CR they will Decide where funding in their CityRegion goes and what it's priorities are. They will also be able to pass Region Specific laws, but anything major will have to be ratified by the PFL.
Their only real limitations are that they may not do anything that would directly conflict with the laws of the country.

Section E~ National Council

The National Council is made up of the PFL and each CityRegion's CR, they will meet three times a year and in emergencies to discuss matters of national importance and plan for the future of the Nation.
Section F~ Security

When the time to vote comes and shortly after, the country will be put on heightened alert to ensure no riots break out and to prevent terrorist activities or assassination attempts.
As there is a possibility that conflicting ideologies may be voted in and cause inter-regional tensions, parties may not have paramilitary units and regions will have strong co-operation enforced on them.

Section G~ CA Aquaria

The Capital Aquaria CityRegion is the only exception in this system. As CA Aquaria has always been the political hub, it will come under direct control of the PFL. To make up for this, the citizens of CA Aquaria will have more influence in National Elections, their vote counting as two.





And that is it, Any Questions?
Other Articles will come as soon as the Politics article is perfected.


Well, this is my idea, tell me what you think ;)

Looks good to me, but I presume since you can only start a political party if your one loaded, and two go to a College you don't want the communists to get a foot in.

Also I think that I would like to have a say in what kind of person the President For Life is. Maybe a mini pole between you, Anagonia, TNB and myself.

And I presume your change in laws and like will come in later articles.

Yes, they will...(the laws)

(Maybe I should bring the initial grant down a bit xD
But no, Communism in Fictions would just lead to Stalinism, i decided that *nods*)

As for the PFL, I was thinking that the first one would be either my current leader or the person she chooses.
But if that is not accepted by yous I guess you could choose someone from my current government.

I have reasons for this; Any foreigners would be met with riots and would just cause too much fuss, and the old government would know already how to run a country.

Of course once they die or decide they had enough one of he CRs will get voted in, so yea...

Or a coup.. Just to make sure you feel safe I will protect the free, sovereign, democratic Fictions from such an uprising.

Also, why don't you give us a list of possible candidates for office? Then we can decide who we want.

you mean from the old government? sure I'll do that

Doesn't have to be previous government.. could be anyone. Ex-chief of Police, librarian, college lecturer... Anyone, because the actual administration isn't changing only a good leader is needed.

sure, I'll work on a list.

What sort of things do you want to know about them?

Umm, I dunno, age, name, occupation, political views, previous experience, that kind of thing.

and for the moment this is all I can think of:

Nita Ellison
Age: 40
Occupation: Nation Leader, Minister of Foreign affairs
Political Views: Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: Is currently the nation leader
Other: Does not want the job but will take it if ti will prevent someone 'inappropriate' from taking it

Sheryl Roy
Age: 38
Occupation: Official AMAPPMI representative
Political Views: Extreme Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: Ran AMAPPMI for seven years, acted as Dranek's advisor during the civil war
Other: Is currently in Hospital and very badly injured because she was caught in the nuke

Adan Slater
Age: 41
Occupation: Acting Armed Forces commander
Political Views: Extreme Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: No actual experience in running the country but has a lot of military experience.
Other:

Michael Thornton
Age: 45
Occupation: Minister of defence/Armed forces commander
Political Views: Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: No experience in running the country but has been armed forces commander for five years and minister of defence for three
Other: Has just returned from a hospital in Zaheran.

Jake Velez
Age: 49
Occupation: Head of Gestapo
Political Views: Extreme Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: Has been head of Gestapo for nine years
Other: N/A

Saul Cantrell
Age: 60
Occupation: Chief Lecturer in Politics at the C.Majovul University (That's like, Fictions' Oxford)
Political Views: Right wing
Previous Experience: None in actually running a country.
Other: Would probably be a HUGE shock to find himself suddenly in charge of the country.

Aaron Gracia
Age: 39
Occupation: Freedom Fighter/Former minister of education
Political Views: Left Wing/Liberal
Previous Experience: Organised a resistance movement, started a civil war and was minister of education for eight years
Other: He is in hiding (or dead, it's still not sure) will have practically no public support

Well you know who I will be backing.... Good old Gracia.

Haha, that would cause riots xD

I thought there were quite a few rebel sympathizers what about C. Majoul?

Oh yea, after Zaheran bombarded them with missiles because of the fact they supported the rebels?
The people blame him for the civil war, which in turn weakened the country so they blame him for losing the global war.
In any case, I'm afraid the global war re-ignited patriotism and the far right wing has alot of support.

You know, that system I drew up is good because the actual running is nothing new, the country has always had CityRegions, and there was always a representative (Who was directly appointed by the leader and only really served as the leader's enforcer- they had no real power) so what I'm really doing is adding to something that is already there

Btw This is my country split up into it's CityRegions. Since the Nuke, the Espias region has been incorporated into the Aquaria region
http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo10/xresNTAP/Fictions/Picture2.png?t=1233084534

Oh and I have new candidates for you to consider:
Alan Loseth
Age: 70
Occupation: CR of Majovul Region
Political Views: Liberal Right Wing
Previous Experience: was CR for ten tears
Other: Was influenced by the rebels and is slightly more liberal than the others, however, he is very patriotic and is no longer sympathising with the rebels.

Dionne Ramos
Age: 48
Occupation: Cr of Norata Region
Political Views: Extreme Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: was CR for three years
Other: N/A

Marcelo Boyd
Age: 58
Occupation: CR of Tyrosor Region
Political Views: Right Wing
Previous Experience: Was CR for five years
Other: N/A

Eric Sean
Age: 45
Occupation: CR of Germuarur Region
Political Views: Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: Was CR for four years
Other: N/A

Kyle Hale
Age: 65
Occupation: CR of Eris Region
Political Views: Extreme Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: Was CR for eight Years
Other: N/A

Katina Copeland
Age: 39
Occupation: CR of Utand Region
Political Views: Right Wing
Previous Experience: Was CR for two years
Other: N/A

Reyes Vincent
Age: 38
Occupation: CR of Ibea Region
Political Views: Right Wing/Fascist
Previous Experience: Was CR for six months
Other: The least experienced out of all of them

Bring on the trumpets!

So, you are agreed on this version of the politics thing?
I asked Anagonia what he thinks over MSN, he thinks its good.
I asked TNB he still hasn't given a reply.

Agreed.

alrighty, justice and law enforcement next, I'll get to writing.

Alright, politics is sorted, lets do justice now

Article II~ Jusice and Law Enforcement

Recognising that Fictions' legal system is flawed and corrupt, the following amendments are to be put in place over a period of one year;

Section A~ Right to fair trial

Every citizen accused of a crime will be given the right to a fair trial by jury. The accused will be considered innocent until proven guilty or until a confession is given. Any foreign visitor caught breaking a law within Fictions will be either deported or tried according to Fictions' laws depending on their status.

Section B~ Riot Police

The Riot Police will no longer be authorised to use deadly force when dealing with civil unrest. They will not be allowed to break up organised peaceful protest rallies unless they threaten to turn violent or are causing a major public disturbance and halting running of an area.

Section C~ The Death Penalty

While the death penalty will still be used in Fictions as a legitimate form of punishment, it will only apply to the following crimes:
-Murder (with the exception of the army during war time)
-Serial Rape
-Espionage
-Treason
Also the death penalty may not be given unless the following conditions have been met:
-There must be definite evidence that the accused has committed the crime they are accused of.
-The sentence can only be passed after a fair trial or signed confession- to be signed in court

Section D~ Warrants

No arbitrary arrests or searches may be conducted, if a person is suspected of a crime a search or arrest warrant may be sought after presenting the evidence against a suspect.
The Ministry of Justice will set up a warrants committee who will go over the evidence and provide a warrant if deemed necessary, any warrant must be signed by at least two members of said committee.

Section E~ One Year Plan

Step 1- Riot police is to stop using deadly force

Step 2- Abolition of the death penalty for the following crimes:
-Conspiracy to undermine government authority
-Political Dissent
-Inciting Riot/Breaking the peace
-Protest (if peaceful will no longer be considered a crime)
-Belonging to any religious organisation that is not NewCristain (Will no longer be considered a crime)
-Terrorism within Fictions
-Illegal drug growing/distributing
-Illegal Immigration - Applying to foreigners
-Kidnapping when the victim dies

Step 3- The ministry of Justice will open a Warrants committee

Step 4- Warrants will have to be provided by aforementioned committee

Step 5- All court cases will be done by Jury



And that's it.
Questions? Suggestions?

Great! Your practically civilized!

Are you saying I wasn't before!? xD

anyway, any specific questions or suggestions? if not I'll get to work in writing the next part: AMAPPMI

Ok, perhaps the one that will cause some complaints...

Article III~ AMAPPMI

AMAPPMI is one of the largest semi-autonomous statutory corporations in Fictions. It consists of the nations propaganda sector, Surveillance sector, Citizen control, Secret Police and intelligence sector as well as working parallel with the police by having the power to issue arrests.
Recognising the importance of AMAPPMI as a major source of employment, complete removal is not a suggested solution, but rather the removal of certain rights and privileges as well as putting certain services under the control of other organisations.
The plan outlined below should be put in place immedietly.

Section A~ Surveillance

In the interest of National security and the prevention of crime and terrorism, surveillance teams will still be operational, however, they will be integrated into the police force and will serve strictly for the purposes of crime prevention. The surveillance unit will no longer have the ability to authorise arrests but will have to apply for a warrant as per the regulations of (Article II Section D) The exceptions to this rule are crimes and acts of terrorism where immediate action is needed n the interest of national security.
They will be allowed to watch public areas but in order to watch private areas a warrant will have to be given.

Section B~ Intelligence

The intelligence sector will come under the control of the government and will be granted it's own semi-autonomy. It will no longer be considered a part of AMAPPMI, but rather as part of the government.

Section C~ Secret Police

All Secret Police will come under the control of the police and will no longer carry out the duties of a secret police force but rather, will be trained in conventional policing or riot policing.

Section D~ AMAPPMI in education

AMAPPMI will completely withdraw their influences in schools allowing for children to be taught in an unbiased manner and not taught on propaganda.

Section E~ AMAPPMI in the media

AMAPPMI will no longer have any influence in the media, instead, facts will be checked by a government run media consultancy company, which will insure actuate representation of facts and will not turn the media into a propaganda station.

Section F~ Citizens Rights to privacy

Due to the intrusive nature of AMAPPMI, changes in the rights and privileges will have to be made. AMAPPMI will no longer have the ability to authorise arbitrary arrests or searches, nor will they be allowed to carry out arbitrary phone taps. If such measures are suspected to be needed for the prevention of crime and terrorism, their case and evidence must be approved of by the warrant council (Article II, Section D)

Section G~ Jobs

Due to restrictions in policies, only a very small task force will still be needed, the resulting Job losses will cause problems however, the people affected will be entitled to the full benefits that the government already offers to people in similar positions.



Questions? Suggestions? Complaints?

OOC: Just so you're aware, the word "Gestapo" is a German contraction of Geheime Staatspolizei, which literally means "Secret State Police." If they aren't a secret police force, there's going to be some very confused civilians.

Sorry for the pop-in, but it is relevant.

I know, I have a secret police and am too lazy/non creative to make up my own name so i just stole it ;)

if it makes you feel better i'll change it to secret police

But if what you means is "if they are no longer a secret police" well that wont be a problem cos they wont be a secret police or known as once cos they will just be a normal police

Number of things, I think these laws should come into effect immediately, no need to wait.

The AMAPPMI should be allowed to watch public places but must have warrants for surveillance on private property, and if it infringes on privacy and harassment rights.

Having AMAPPMI in the Media will make the Media bias to the AMAPPMI officials eyes. No media can be un-bias but a media which is checked by trained propagandists will be a lot more than privately run. Government officials or better yet, private sub-contractors should be used as executives for the running of the Media.

Due to this the AMAPPMI will have to down-size drastically, a cut of maybe 30 - 40% of it's jobs will need to be made.

Number of things, I think these laws should come into effect immediately, no need to wait.

What do you mean?


The AMAPPMI should be allowed to watch public places but must have warrants for surveillance on private property, and if it infringes on privacy and harassment rights.

I meant this but probably did not make myself very clear, I'll change it to make myself clearer


Having AMAPPMI in the Media will make the Media bias to the AMAPPMI officials eyes. No media can be un-bias but a media which is checked by trained propagandists will be a lot more than privately run. Government officials or better yet, private sub-contractors should be used as executives for the running of the Media.

the way things work at the moment is the government owns and funds the media but AMAPPMI is the one who makes sure they don't 'step out of line'
What I intend is to keep it like this however, instead of censoring they will only make sure that facts are correct ect.


Due to this the AMAPPMI will have to down-size drastically, a cut of maybe 30 - 40% of it's jobs will need to be made.

I don't quote get what you mean here either xD

What I mean is there is no reason to use a stage plan. All of this can come into effect immediately with no effect on the public.

the way things work at the moment is the government owns and funds the media but AMAPPMI is the one who makes sure they don't 'step out of line'
What I intend is to keep it like this however, instead of censoring they will only make sure that facts are correct ect.

What I mean is that don't use the previous propagandists to do a job that can be done better by a non-bias alternative. Like a media Consultancy-company or a government representative who is not used to making the news into propaganda.

I don't quote get what you mean here either xD
Due to the fact you are going to be using less employees. About that many people need to be made redundant.

ah right, gotcha, ill make the changes

But what do you suggest happen to the people who will inevitably lose their job