NationStates Jolt Archive

I know this is kinda out of place, but when i looked at the topics in the General category, I didn't think i would get the feedback or the experience as I would in this section.

I am going to be hopping into the NS world of International Incidents soon, but first (After I get my nation's budget in order) so I wanted to get some feedback on a series of guns which I am dvided on which to use. They are:

I am basing my decision on firepower (bullet), rate of fire, and range

IMI Tavor TAR 21
-5.56x45mm NATO
-750-900 rounds/min
-Effective range up to 600 m
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tavor-latrun-exhibition-1.jpg

Barrett REC7
-6.8 mm Remington SPC (1.5 times the stopping power of teh NATO round)
-750 rounds/min
-Effective 600 m (maximum 800)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Barrett_REC7.jpg

FAMAS
-5.56x45mm NATO
-1000-1100 rounds/min
-450 m
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FAMAS_description.png

SA80
-5.56x45mm NATO
-610-775 rounds/min
-400m (Maximum 500 totally)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SA-80_rifle_1996.jpg


Based on these which do you think is the best weapon? The Barret has a long range with more stopping power, but its rate of fire is lacking. The Tavor TAR 21 has a good range, but the NATO rounds lacks the stopping power of the Barret as well as the range, but has better rate of fire. The FAMAS has short range with the NATO round, but has an incredible rate of fire. The SA80 isn't really the main contender here for me, as it doesn't stand out in range, firepower, or rate of fire, its simply up here because its a British made weapon to counter the French FAMAS, Israeli TAR 21, and American Barret REC7. What do you guys think?

General is not a RPer fourm so you really wouldn't get any help there for picking a gun for your army

It depends on who you want to kill, personally, I like the American Barret REC7
-"If you want to kill a public servant, Mr. Maroni, I recommend you buy American."
-Harvey Dent

Tavor. Compact, light, accurate, reliable. Israeli weapons are some of the best.

AK-101:

good accuracy, very easy to maintain, reliable, low cost, uses NATO ammo


EDIT: as for range, combat rarely ever takes place at beyond 300m, past that bullets tend to act funny

Purdey 12gauge side-by-side shotgun. It is the only gun for a gentleman afterall!

Thanks for the feedback do far.

The AK-101 is a good alternate, It is similar to the SA80 though.

As for the range issue, most combat nowadays rarly happens over 300 because insurgents use the AK-47, which has an increibly short range and our soldiers aren't allowed to fire unless they confirm they are looking at an insurgent, which only happens when fired on (In the Ak's range, which is usually shortened because insurgents aren't properly trained) but in a large conventional war (Which has yet to be fought on a large scale) the defenders engage the enmy before reaching the city or when they are attacking, fire at a farther range because anyone with a gun is a target in a large conventional war and most civilians are either gone or staying in their basement. Range will count in a modern coventional war still.

300m is still plenty good in most cases. Combat has tended to occur around 300m for decades; in fact, in World War II, the majority of combat casualties coming from small-arms fire came at short range.

[QUOTE=-Lorraine-]AK-47, which has an increibly short range/QUOTE]

Pffht. Thats because insurgents don't really aim.

I have a assault rifle in the pipe if you want something shiny. :tongue:

AK-103 better range and kick ass power, Grip and rip!

Use a NS rifle. Much better.

just don't forget this is II and you would be fighting trained troops with the odd insurgent thrown in

..........or so everyone says.....

..........or so everyone says.....

what

You can use some of my MGs in my factbook.

Edit: Unless you plan on going Urban warfare a lot, this would be my choice. (Probably because the gun is made by me, produced by me, and the technology is mine, but ya know, it might not be cuz of that, I might just like the name.)



27-D Powerhouse Lightweight Machine gun:

Fires 600 rounds per minute, and has good mobility, can be added onto by the deployment case, which increases the range and fire rate, this makes it less mobile, and can only be moved with a very heavy handler. Moderately expensive. (I'd say about 350 USD per, but in Rithian that is a lot) Effective range up to 550 meters. Also, the Aziast Freedom Gun is a good urban warfare sniper rifle, if you like that kind of thing.

Use a NS rifle. Much better.

Don't use AVIR. Use the NEAK RAR-4 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=573106) or wait for the RAR-5 (which will own AVIR so hard).

what

Most NS weapons of any kind are impracticable because if NS weapons were better then surely someone would see the stats and use them in real life. There's also the fact that most people(if not all) people on NS are not military scientists/engineers. You can say there better, dose not make them better.

Most NS weapons of any kind are impracticable because if NS weapons were better then surely someone would see the stats and use them in real life. There's also the fact that most people(if not all) people on NS are not military scientists/engineers. You can say there better, dose not make them better.

so that what you talking about

I say AUG Bullup.

Yeah, I'm still going with my suggestion. :)

Most NS weapons of any kind are impracticable because if NS weapons were better then surely someone would see the stats and use them in real life. There's also the fact that most people(if not all) people on NS are not military scientists/engineers. You can say there better, dose not make them better.

Anything designed by TNE can be built and used IRL. He's just one example, there are others.

I choose the FAMAS, if only because it was used by the Genome Soldiers in Metal Gear Solid.

I was considering using NS weapons, but I wanted to use a RL weapon that was more realistic.

To tell you the truth, the whole thing is tied up, I was leaning towards the Barrett REC7 because I thought that its powerful firepower, with a reasonable rate of fire made for good close range, while its range allowed it to fire farther out.

I have my biases, for Korintar uses a homegrown assault rifle, the X-5 phoenix rifle. It is excellent when taking out armored vehicles and can fire most munitions- with only slight adjustments, as it has three barrels, despite that, it will not weigh a soldier down, for it only weighs 9.7 lbs fully loaded and 7.9 lbs unloaded. Problems- stockpiles have to be rotated every two years due to wear and tear, along with jamming issues that come with every firearm. This is why many of my soldiers are also armed with swords, so they are not screwed in a combat situation.

I have my biases, for Korintar uses a homegrown assault rifle, the X-5 phoenix rifle. It is excellent when taking out armored vehicles and can fire most munitions- with only slight adjustments, as it has three barrels, despite that, it will not weigh a soldier down, for it only weighs 9.7 lbs fully loaded and 7.9 lbs unloaded. Problems- stockpiles have to be rotated every two years due to wear and tear, along with jamming issues that come with every firearm. This is why many of my soldiers are also armed with swords, so they are not screwed in a combat situation.

I...I think you have a lot to learn about guns buddy.

I choose the FAMAS, if only because it was used by the Genome Soldiers in Metal Gear Solid.

"Huh? What was that noise?...hmm... Hmm? Whos footprints are these.."

I would recommend the AY-144 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13933320&postcount=264) rifle designed by Yanitaria.

Doesn't matter.
The difference in ability of the individual round to kill is at best, marginal compared to shot placement.

Gun erganomics are to go with training to handle it (and affects how fast you can aim well), after 6 months of using a stone as a hammer, you'll swear you never understood why hammers needed some gimmicky handle in the first place.

The same goes for guns. With enough training, you can plink people off with open sights out to 400 meters. With training and a crap-tastic 4x scope, you can reliably kill shit out to 600, with occassional pot-shots at officers sunning themselves out to 1000 meters (provided the bullet can go that far). With a 10x, they can go out to 600 to 1000+ meters, with training for hip-shooting in instances they contact at less than 50 meters (that or they get awfully good with pistol).

Can you do that on full-auto? Generally not, and if you try it in an RP, the other side most likely won't care what you're using.

All the guns you listed have at least semi-auto capability, and that would be their main mode of fire unless you happen to be the last man standing in your squad (in which case you're already straight-fucked royally w/o lube), at which point your goal is to make noise, spend ammo, and take down as many people as you can in the shortest amount of time, because if anyone is left standing by the time you empty the mag, he's gonna die before he'll hope to reload.

"The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss." -Refferance to crappy shooting on semi-auto versus spray+pray, usually alluding to the ammo left in the mag when you yourself get capped. Bacause:
"Suppressive fire doesn't"
--------
Now time for my shameless advert for the licensced AY-144 knock-off!
LAR-655 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10892498&postcount=17)
NSD had some interesting things to say about it...
Yes, the link works, but Inv-Free is throwing sparks again...

Izistan, you are right, I do have alot to learn about firearms. However I realize, concerning the weight, that I did not specify the material used. Korintari firearms are made of a lightweight carbon fiber/high temperature plastic composite, however this does make them fragile thus requiring relatively frequent replacement, even during peacetime- which is typical of Korintar. Also would I not be right in saying that there are frequent problems with jamming, since the gun has three barrels. Please feel free to TG me about this, perhaps enlightening me of areas that I may be ignorant for I have not been in II for long.

Most NS weapons of any kind are impracticable because if NS weapons were better then surely someone would see the stats and use them in real life. There's also the fact that most people(if not all) people on NS are not military scientists/engineers. You can say there better, dose not make them better.

You really know nothing at all. Best to be quiet.

"Huh? What was that noise?...hmm... Hmm? Whos footprints are these.."

"Huh...What's this box doing here?"

This is what i use,very good rifle:
M21
The Zastava M21 is a modern assault rifle developed and manufactured by the Serbian Zastava Arms company. The M21 is designed on the basis of the famous Kalashnikov rifles from Russia.
Weight M21 - 3.85 kg, M21S - 3.8 kg, M21C - 3.59 kg
Length M21 - 998/750 mm, M21S - 915/666 mm, M21C - 856/606 mm
Barrel length M21 - 460 mm (18.1"), M21S - 375 mm (14.8"), M21C - 325 mm (12.8")
Cartridge 5.56x45mm NATO
Action Gas-actuated (rotating bolt)
Rate of fire 680 rounds/min
Muzzle velocity 925 m/s
Effective range 450 m (492 yd) with iron sights
600 m (656 yd) with optics
Feed system 30 rounds
Sights Adjustable iron sights, optional mount required for optical sights

Design and Features

* Ergonomically designed and balanced
* Low recoil
* Light weight and compact
* Efficient and reliable locking system
* Polymer, easily adjustable stock
* Polymer magazine.
* Hammer forged barrel with chromium plated rifling to increase accuracy
* Built in "Picatinny" rail, allowing attachment of standard NATO aiming devices
* Bayonet attachment
* 40 mm under-barrel grenade launcher
* Flash hider to decrease blinding of the operator and to stabilize the weapon

Also HUGE picture of it in link below.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Zastava_M-21.jpg

I normally deal in energetics, but if you want a good gun out of that lot you want the TAR 21. Keeps a good balance between the four variables.

Okay, look...which do you think looks best? Seriously, this is nationstates, most of the people you RP with aren't going to bother comparing relative energetic dick-sizes to decide whether or not your infantry squad beats theirs. Every rifle you posted in your poll is adequate to do the job in the real world-in Nationstates, they're still adequate to do the job, you just have to decide whether they fit YOU, the nation you're running, and the style of army you're positing in your posts.

So, ask yourself-what fits the style of your army best? The 'image' you want readers and fellow RP'ers to hold in their minds?

The only really relevant technical detail is the serious weakness of 5.56mm caliber in regards to stopping power. A gun at the 6mm caliber range will be more recommended than something that won't pack enough punch to down an enemy unless you hit him straight into the head or into a lethal spot.

The only really relevant technical detail is the serious weakness of 5.56mm caliber in regards to stopping power. A gun at the 6mm caliber range will be more recommended than something that won't pack enough punch to down an enemy unless you hit him straight into the head or into a lethal spot.

Well that is the only weak thing i saw in the design,but as the rifle was bult on AK-series it can fire 7+mm bullets too.See the wikipedia for more detail.Only reason they made it able to fire Nato slugs was that they are exporting it to Nato countries or future members of NATO to try to comply with NATO standards.

Don't use AVIR. Use the NEAK RAR-4 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=573106) or wait for the RAR-5 (which will own AVIR so hard).

And we've been waiting for RAR-5 for how many years now?

On topic:

From the rifles in the OP the best choice is the Barrett REC7 (although the effective range for the SA80/L85A2 is higher than 400m), although if you want to use real-world rifles then I would consider the FN SCAR L/H series and the HK-416/417 series. Both of these have 'light' 5.56mm weapons and 'heavy' 7.62mm weapons, with the SCAR rifles being much more accurate but the HK weapons being lighter more reliable.

The best option though is to use an NS rifle. These are much better than real weapons because NS designers do not have to worry about things such as patent infringement, or a budget, or even sales, and so they are free to experiment.

Popular NS weapons at the moment are anything by Doomingsland, Aequatio and Etoile Arcture. Quite a few people are using my K28 and K29 rifles, but the 'in-thing' is going to be the AVIR 3: a joint project between me and Doomingsland. Doom's writeup is a ridiculous 3-4 thousand words, I'm the artist and co-visionary.

It should be released in the next couple of days, I'm working on the last few images for it now. This is the AVIR 3 as used by Doomingsland;

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3880/avir3desertsmallif5.png

And here is a custom configuration for The Warmaster;

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/5001/avir3warsmallzv2.png

These images are very small for preview purposes, the final pictures are 1399x561. We already have 3 billion preorders.


EDIT: Third Spanish States:

There's actually nothing wrong with the 5.56x45mm NATO round when fired from a proper rifle, with a barrel of ~500mm or more. But when you shorten the barrel (as with the M4A1, and most other modern rifles) the 5.56mm round does not have enough speed to make the kill. Still, even at these speeds the round is much better at penetrating armour than the Soviet 7.62x39mm round.

Slightly-Less-Than Serious Plug:

Try The New Exterminatus HVAP Wraith Chaingun Today!
Worried about your aim? Don't be! With the HVAP Wraith, just point the gun in the general direction of the enemy and watch them dissapear when you pull the trigger!

Being Serious:

Although I currently use two main weapons in my army, the L85A2, an upgraded modern version of the SA80, and the X/M8 modular asssault weapon, I tend to favour the M8 most. Which is why the L85 will be phased out soon and replaced with the FN F2000. From those guns, I reccomend the TAR-21, but if you were looking to branch out into others, here are a list of guns that are quite good. Some may have been mentioned already:

- G36 Family
- M8 Family
- M16/M4 Family
- AK 101/103
- L85A2, L85 Carbine, L86 LSW

Skip the assault rifles and move straight to a Main Battle Rifle: The M-14, AR-10, FN-FAL, Dragunov (stretched AK receiver FTW!), HK-91, etc. Your army should consist of riflemen, and each squad assigned a Squad Automatic Weapon, a designated marksman with a sniper rifle, and/or an anti-armor weapon such as an RPG or bazooka. :D

That said, I vote either the Barrett or the FAMAS if strictly limiting myself to your poll. It looks like the Barrett uses a piston mechanism that should reduce the much-hated fouling habits of the M-16 while allowing use of an already-common lower reciever and a standard magazine already in mass production.

Dragunov (stretched AK receiver FTW!),

I think you're thinking of the Romanian FPK or Yugoslav M77 xD

Izistan, you are right, I do have alot to learn about firearms. However I realize, concerning the weight, that I did not specify the material used. Korintari firearms are made of a lightweight carbon fiber/high temperature plastic composite, however this does make them fragile thus requiring relatively frequent replacement, even during peacetime- which is typical of Korintar. Also would I not be right in saying that there are frequent problems with jamming, since the gun has three barrels. Please feel free to TG me about this, perhaps enlightening me of areas that I may be ignorant for I have not been in II for long.
Lightwieght? Your gun?
Maybe for essentially having 3 guns on a stick and a swivel... (http://frontiereditor.wordpress.com/2007/08/28/and-in-a-shameless-ripoff-from-laurie-kendrick/)

Dragunov (stretched AK receiver FTW!)
This made me whince in pain...

Well that is the only weak thing i saw in the design,but as the rifle was bult on AK-series it can fire 7+mm bullets too.See the wikipedia for more detail.Only reason they made it able to fire Nato slugs was that they are exporting it to Nato countries or future members of NATO to try to comply with NATO standards.
That .30 cal is only a slight (but ver pronounced) step-up from the 7.62x25 TT*, which is on-par with the .45 ACP, there a reason why the chinese consider their copies of the AK a SMG...

And the Ruskies previously had a rifle-sized SMG, so we not entirely sure what they were striving for...

So for pwnage, PPSh-41 or GTFO of my soviet-state...

*7.62x39 Soviet is about mid-way between 7.62x54R Nagant and 7.62x25 Tokerev.
In Early WW2, this caliber comonality was seen as an advantage, late/post-war, it was seen as an epic headeache (hence the quick-swap to 9x18 Markov, and later, the 5.45x39 Soviet, in addidtion to the 120/122/125/130 mm mortar/howitzer/gun/rockets).

And we've been waiting for RAR-5 for how many years now?

I only announced the design yesterday you nub. :p

Skip the assault rifles and move straight to a Main Battle Rifle: The M-14, AR-10, FN-FAL, Dragunov (stretched AK receiver FTW!), HK-91, etc. Your army should consist of riflemen, and each squad assigned a Squad Automatic Weapon, a designated marksman with a sniper rifle, and/or an anti-armor weapon such as an RPG or bazooka. :D

That said, I vote either the Barrett or the FAMAS if strictly limiting myself to your poll. It looks like the Barrett uses a piston mechanism that should reduce the much-hated fouling habits of the M-16 while allowing use of an already-common lower reciever and a standard magazine already in mass production.

The Barrett product uses an AR-15 derived gas mechanism. There ARE piston-actuated uppers on the market, even for 6.8SPC, but the Barrett's not one of them.

It also only comes in the carbine length (16" barrel, assembled it's about the length of your typical CAR-15 or M-4). Carbines are nice in urban "Police Action" fighting, but they're not so hot when you get into situations where you need range. Rifles are better for broader, more general warfare where you might actually have a use for that extra velocity and distance you get with that extra four inches of rifling. Mind you, there's a trade for a longer, stiffer barrel-you're packing more weight, it's not as compact in the APC unless it's a Bullpup like the L-85 family or FAMAS, and there's a heat problem when you fire full-auto or bursts. (Heat builds up and warps the barrel faster, trashing accuracy and making the piece hot.)


Everything with rifles is a trade-off, every rifle produced when used according to the design, works fine in modern warfare (hell, they managed to make the M-16 derived M-4's work) in the role it is intended and designed to perform.

But an Assault Rifle is a bundle of compromises regardless of caliber, mechanism (with a few glaringly bad exceptions) or layout. Really trained guys with bolt-action mausers can take on untrained guys with Steyr Augs and win if they know what they're doing, and do it the right way, but if both groups are equally trained, the edge usually goes to the one that has the Assault Rifles because while an Assault rifle is only so-so as a rifle, or submachine-gun, or light machine gun, it IS so-so at all three roles, whereas the dedicated rifle is only good at being a dedicated rifle (and possibly a club, spear-shaft, etc.)

If you expect your troops to do lots of door-kicking house-to-house, the FAMAS, or really any of the carbine-length/size rifles on the list are good choices, ditto if they're going to be sitting eight to a track in urban fighting with the need to be quick dismounting against insurgent positions.

Any of the OP's choices will do that job and do it well.

If you're expecting to try and hold the Fulda Gap, or fighting on the Great plains, or any of the thousand or so situations we trained in back in the eighties, you might want something a bit...bigger. FN-FAL is a good option for that job, so's the M-14, or the G3, and those rifles make good "Designated Marksman" pieces for your urban fighting force that uses the smaller, dedicated, short-barrelled assault rifles too.

It all depends on what you're doing with it, what you think fits your image of what an army should be carrying and how they should be fighting.

For my 2 cents what you ideally want is an AR-18 derived action firing an intermediate cartrdige (6-7mm calibre and about 2500joules muzzle energy).

Out of your list the barrett REC-7, which does use a piston system, does get the closest so i would plump for that.

Personally I would tend to go with with one of the now rejected LWRC IAR designs in 6.5mm Grendal but that is just me.


As for those suggesting battle rfiles they are simply aping the Winchester funded generals of post ww2 who simply ignored all the data indicating that the 7mm Intermediate was far far better solution and pushed ahead with 7.62x51mm NATO ;) (actually its all Winston Churchills' fault).

I think you're thinking of the Romanian FPK or Yugoslav M77 xD

You're right - on closer inspection, the similarities are mostly cosmetic :(

Still a decent MBR :)

Well my uncle works in the industrie and he said some guy put in the idea of a nuclear grenade launcher. =D Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing that would be only the alltime best weapon sure it would cause radiation but just wear a lead suit or be the general and make other people use it.

For my 2 cents what you ideally want is an AR-18 derived action firing an intermediate cartrdige (6-7mm calibre and about 2500joules muzzle energy).

Out of your list the barrett REC-7, which does use a piston system, does get the closest so i would plump for that.

Personally I would tend to go with with one of the now rejected LWRC IAR designs in 6.5mm Grendal but that is just me.


As for those suggesting battle rfiles they are simply aping the Winchester funded generals of post ww2 who simply ignored all the data indicating that the 7mm Intermediate was far far better solution and pushed ahead with 7.62x51mm NATO ;) (actually its all Winston Churchills' fault).

7mm intermediate was an interesting cartridge I'll grant you-but it's no panacea-no cartridge is. As rifle power has gone down, so too has "effective engagement ranges" of the sort that were used in the studies you're probably already familiar with. After all, if you go by sheer number of people killed, the .22 Long Rifle is the most lethal cartridge in history-it's killed more folks than all the others put together-I just wouldn't try to arm my army with it as a standard weapon.

ONe of the reasons people "buy into" the "Winchester" argument, is this:

You can always shoot closer, and closer shots tend to be deadlier, but you can't always dictate range, and being able to shoot further (and actually kill what you're shooting at) than your opponent can be rather more useful-it allows you a measure of control your opponent doesn't have if he can't match your distances reliably. If my rifle has an effective range of, say 900 meters, and your rifle has half that, I don't have to wait for you to get into your range before I start pinking your squadmates. AT your range, I'm more likely to hit you with something that does a lot of damage than you are, since you're now taking the low-average shots with drift and accuracy issues that I was taking at one and a half to two times the distance.

'kay? Now, with modern armies, you can close that gap one of two basic ways-really fast (usually by helicopter) or in an Vehicle. Notably, anti-armour weapons work better on vehicles, and a bunch of guys inside a BMP or Stryker who've just been hit with a top-attack missile are going to get hurt, or die a lot more conveniently-because they had to stay in the track longer than the guys who could dismount outside of conventional small-arms range and come into their own position in relative comfort and decidedly less concentrated positioning. (i.e. they're not boxed up in a can that can be opened by a man-portable or crew-served missile,and they aren't concentrated inside a big target as they approach).

Note that Urban counterinsurgency changes the math significantly on this-you can't use Fulda Gap tactics in Fallujah and win, Sadr city is not El Alamein. Urban warfare doesn't work like a large-scale conventional battle does in the open. Reduced-power cartridges work better in urban and jungle combats against irregular forces. The 7.62 Nato round was designed for the Korean war, or WWII, it wasn't designed for counterinsurgency limited wars like the real-world's been having the last fifty years.

7mm intermediate was an interesting cartridge I'll grant you-but it's no panacea-no cartridge is. As rifle power has gone down, so too has "effective engagement ranges" of the sort that were used in the studies you're probably already familiar with. After all, if you go by sheer number of people killed, the .22 Long Rifle is the most lethal cartridge in history-it's killed more folks than all the others put together-I just wouldn't try to arm my army with it as a standard weapon.

ONe of the reasons people "buy into" the "Winchester" argument, is this:

You can always shoot closer, and closer shots tend to be deadlier, but you can't always dictate range, and being able to shoot further (and actually kill what you're shooting at) than your opponent can be rather more useful-it allows you a measure of control your opponent doesn't have if he can't match your distances reliably. If my rifle has an effective range of, say 900 meters, and your rifle has half that, I don't have to wait for you to get into your range before I start pinking your squadmates. AT your range, I'm more likely to hit you with something that does a lot of damage than you are, since you're now taking the low-average shots with drift and accuracy issues that I was taking at one and a half to two times the distance.

'kay? Now, with modern armies, you can close that gap one of two basic ways-really fast (usually by helicopter) or in an Vehicle. Notably, anti-armour weapons work better on vehicles, and a bunch of guys inside a BMP or Stryker who've just been hit with a top-attack missile are going to get hurt, or die a lot more conveniently-because they had to stay in the track longer than the guys who could dismount outside of conventional small-arms range and come into their own position in relative comfort and decidedly less concentrated positioning. (i.e. they're not boxed up in a can that can be opened by a man-portable or crew-served missile,and they aren't concentrated inside a big target as they approach).

Note that Urban counterinsurgency changes the math significantly on this-you can't use Fulda Gap tactics in Fallujah and win, Sadr city is not El Alamein. Urban warfare doesn't work like a large-scale conventional battle does in the open. Reduced-power cartridges work better in urban and jungle combats against irregular forces. The 7.62 Nato round was designed for the Korean war, or WWII, it wasn't designed for counterinsurgency limited wars like the real-world's been having the last fifty years.

As you said it is all about balance and compromise, the bigger round needs a bigger and heavier rifle and reduces manouverability and at the kind of ranges where "full power" rifle rounds finally get a noticeable upper hand in terms of ballistics over intermediates (about 700-800m) your average infantry man isn't going to be hitting anything reliably nor does he have the ammo to produce effective supression. Full power catridges are great for medium MGs and specialist rifles but are simply over kill for the standard issue rifle even for battles in relatively open terrain

Well my uncle works in the industrie and he said some guy put in the idea of a nuclear grenade launcher. =D Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamazing that would be only the alltime best weapon sure it would cause radiation but just wear a lead suit or be the general and make other people use it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Crockett_(nuclear_device)

mmmm.....skin cancer..

P-90 is a very quick and reliable gun and has good accuracy

P-90 is a very quick and reliable gun and has good accuracy

yeah, buuuut is uses a gimmick cartridge and is only of any use under 150m [at best]

EDIT: It's a Sub Machine Gun

OOC: This one is really the best.

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M.A.C- 56 5.56x45NATO Series Assault Rifles

http://i36.tinypic.com/k9uez7.png

Basically,the M.A.C-56 is an improved,lightened and refined SIG SG-550 series rifle manufactured under license in Anghele. The M.A.C-56 uses the same gas operated system,with gas piston removably attached to the bolt carrier,and with rotating bolt with two massive lugs. The recoil spring is located around the gas piston rod,above the barrel,and the bolt carrier attached to the gas piston rod by the mean of removable charging handle.The gas port has gas regulator with two different open and one closed position (latter for firing rifle grenades).

The receiver of all M.A.C-5X series guns is made from stamped steel which makes it very resistant and has two major parts, upper and lower,which are connected by pushpins. The barrel is screwed into the upper receiver.Corrosion issues with the Sig 55X line of rifles have been addressed in the M.A.C-56 and all metal parts are now coated with a super corosion resistant Maritime Finish.The trigger unit has a safety/fire selector switch on the left side of the receiver, with 3 settings: safe, semi-auto, full-auto.If desired, additional module could be installed in the trigger mechanism to allow 2/3-rounds burst mode. Rear sights are drum-type or carrying handle integrated red-dot sights (like those found on Heckler-Koch rifles).On certain current production models rear sight is replaced with full-length Picatinny style rail with folding back-up reat sight.

The M.A.C-56 has muzzle compensator/flash hider of NATO-standard diameter, so it is possible to launch rifle grenades from the muzzle and fit a sound suppressor.

The M.A.C-56 can be fitted with detachable folding bipods under the handguard, and is issued with side-folding, skeletonized polymer buttstock. Every rifle of M.A.C-56 family can be fitted with proprietary, quick detachable scope mount, although current production rifles are usually fitted with one or more picatinny rails. Export versions can be equipped with commercial telescope sights, ACOG or "red dot" sights, depending on customer preferences.The M.A.C-56 also can be fitted with bayonet. Standard magazine capacity M.A.C-56 rifles is 30 rounds.

Standard magazines are made of polymer can be clamped together for ease of carry,using the magazine studs on the side of the magazine walls.Further variants such as a Kurz (compact) model a mid-size battle rifle in 7.62 and a sniper rifle are being developed as well as a machine gun and 30/40mm grenade launching module.

Specifications:

M.A.C-56|A STD M.A.C-56U|ASD

-Caliber: 5.56x45mm | 5.56x45mm

-Magazine Capacity: 20 or 30 Rounds [100 Rounds Drums Available On Request]

-Rate Of Fire:760 Rounds/Min | 780 Rounds/Min

-Length: 998 / 772 mm | 833 / 607 mm(924 / 698 mm)
(Stock Open / Folded)


M.A.C-56U|ASD Equipped with 3.5x Optical Sight [Available Without Sound Supressor/Moderator Call For Pricing] : 1800€

M.A.C-56|A STD [Can Be Equipped With The "U" Version Optical Sight At An Additional Cost] :1100€

OOC: This one is really the best.

OOC: No.

On the issue of range. Range is important becuse as said MOST combat happens in 300m, but not ALL. There will be times when engagments will happen and the range will be useful. I am still pulling towards the Barrett, as its range gives gives it advantages to the other guns (except the TAR) and the round has 50% greater stopping power than all the rest, yet the gun is still compatible with current NATO standards. THe rate of fire is merely for when There are a big group of enemies and I need them all down fast. I get my full auto on and blast at them and take out several and make others drop and not want to get back up. Fire SUpremacy is when I am pouring out more rounds than you and you know that I have more bullets heading for your head than you have going to mine. I ain't gonna put my head up if there are hundreds of bullets flying over, Im gonna wait till they aren't coming. But I think that 700 per minute is more than enough.

I was going to put the SCAR on there, but decided against it because I couldn't find its effective range.

OOC: No.

OOC:So you think the SIG-55X series of weapons isn´t one of the best and most accurate out of the box machine guns in the world?

Our version,is basically an upgraded SIG with better optics and a few refinements.

OOC:So you think the SIG-55X series of weapons isn´t one of the best and most accurate out of the box machine guns in the world?

Our version,is basically an upgraded SIG with better optics and a few refinements.




Haven't you had four nations deleted now?

mmmm.....skin cancer..

Nah. Fatal radiation poisoning because the crew was going to get dosed with neutrons. :p

Our version,is basically an upgraded SIG with better optics and a few refinements.

Can you point out these `refinements` because I`m just seeing a stock SIG with some paint.

Nah. Fatal radiation poisoning because the crew was going to get dosed with neutrons. :p



Can you point out these `refinements` because I`m just seeing a stock SIG with some paint.

Multi Lug bolt,improved gas system,different treatment of the metal surface to improve rust resistance,optical sights added,upgraded stock.

Sudova, you're making some pretty bold assumptions with how combat works.
--------
Namely, because you can't see through trees, and without magnification, a man is a speck @ 600 meters. With magnification, you has tunnel-vision.

Camo and "light/noise/fire discipline" REALLY helps at those ranges.
--------------
If you can spot the enemy past 600 meters, you can generally flip a coin for either engaging with a MG or arty-rape with FAR less risk of getting killed yourself.

Inside 400 meters, it doesn't matter what decision you make, so long as you make it FAST and it doesn't resault in insta-fail. IA drills, ROE, and SOP should have plenty of time to swim around you head though. Speed gains importance exponentially as distance closes, whereas the requirement of sound judgement remains fairly constant (and at some point, actually loses importance).

Past 1,000 meters, hold your fucking fire, call in some arty, prepare ambush, take your time and do it right. Last thing you want to do is call the arty on yourself (makes you look like the dummy that flash-banged their own team)...
-------------
Ther is ONE situation in which superior rifle-fire becomes the important killer, and that's when you don't have artillery, and you know the enemy doesn't get any either.
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/range.html

On page 139 of this book is the Cumulative Frequency Graph shown on the right. This claims that 72% of rifle shots are made at 200m or less and that only 3% of shots are made beyond 400m.
Keep in mind, that's shots deemed feasable at the time by the shooter's ability, not hits. At the time, riflemen were TRAINED to achieve epic amounts of accuracy out to 400 meters, so them not believing in their rifles isn't why a measly 25% of these engagements are made at this range.

The Other big reason, is that bullets travel at a finite velocity, and soldiers are trained to MOVE, more-so when being shot at, this makes hitting them a rather difficult task unless they're moving in a very predictable fashion.

Another interesting note, is that since 1910, MGs have been firing 'hotter' loads than rifles, and can also (if needed) fire rifle ammo, but firing MG-ammo through a rifle is apparently asking for trouble (you'll need more frequent barrel-changes due to barrel erosion, but that minor factor considering MGs also overheat).

Hurtful Thoughts, you are right on the money for saying that my nation's firearms are lightweight for tribarrels, I happened to notice IRL firearms, with one barrel, weigh the same as my fictional rifle. Perhaps the reason my gun sounded like it was not lightweight is because I used pounds instead of kilos.

To the OP, whatever firearm you feel comfortable with, use it. It really does not matter. I happen to like to make up a rifle, because my nation's tech level when it comes to the regular army is within PMT range, while the militias are armed with old fashioned winchester repeater-style rifles.

I just use the SCAR chambered in 7.62 NATO for the Heavy version and 6.8x48mm for the Light.

You really know nothing at all. Best to be quiet.

and you would? Please enlighten us with your engineering expertise, I mean you are a weapons expert right?

Well, I would suggest the SIG SG 510-4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIG_SG_510#Variants), but what do I know.

Sudova, you're making some pretty bold assumptions with how combat works.
--------
Namely, because you can't see through trees, and without magnification, a man is a speck @ 600 meters. With magnification, you has tunnel-vision.

Camo and "light/noise/fire discipline" REALLY helps at those ranges.
--------------
If you can spot the enemy past 600 meters, you can generally flip a coin for either engaging with a MG or arty-rape with FAR less risk of getting killed yourself.

Inside 400 meters, it doesn't matter what decision you make, so long as you make it FAST and it doesn't resault in insta-fail. IA drills, ROE, and SOP should have plenty of time to swim around you head though. Speed gains importance exponentially as distance closes, whereas the requirement of sound judgement remains fairly constant (and at some point, actually loses importance).

Past 1,000 meters, hold your fucking fire, call in some arty, prepare ambush, take your time and do it right. Last thing you want to do is call the arty on yourself (makes you look like the dummy that flash-banged their own team)...
-------------
Ther is ONE situation in which superior rifle-fire becomes the important killer, and that's when you don't have artillery, and you know the enemy doesn't get any either.
http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/range.html


Keep in mind, that's shots deemed feasable at the time by the shooter's ability, not hits. At the time, riflemen were TRAINED to achieve epic amounts of accuracy out to 400 meters, so them not believing in their rifles isn't why a measly 25% of these engagements are made at this range.

The Other big reason, is that bullets travel at a finite velocity, and soldiers are trained to MOVE, more-so when being shot at, this makes hitting them a rather difficult task unless they're moving in a very predictable fashion.

Another interesting note, is that since 1910, MGs have been firing 'hotter' loads than rifles, and can also (if needed) fire rifle ammo, but firing MG-ammo through a rifle is apparently asking for trouble (you'll need more frequent barrel-changes due to barrel erosion, but that minor factor considering MGs also overheat).

Your other points are a "Granted"-for my own nation, I'm running medium-power small semiautos (select fire Mini-!4's in 6.8 SPC as the standard "line unit" rifle, with FN-FAL chambered in 6.5 Swede for the designated marksman and 6.5 Swede chambering in the squad machine-gun, which is the FN-MAG. All of which were chosen mostly to add flavour text, and underline that not everyone makes the best decisions.)

as for firing MG ammo in rifles-MG ammo is loaded "Hot" for a variety of weapons, and in a wide variety of calibres. IMI had special "Machine gun" loads for 9mmP intended to be used in the Uzi, and those were also prone to bust anything as light as, say, a Browning Hi-Power.

This doesn't mean that there aren't Generals (not all of them armchair) who favoured higher output rounds built for longer ranges-it's just that in the world of reality, medium-power rounds won out in the selection of what would become "Standard Cartridges"-because the Assault Rifle does a LOT of things-none of them particularly well, but it can do all of them fairly competently.

Haven't you had four nations deleted now?

OOC:And what the hell does that have to do with the thread subject?

Most experts DO say that the SIG 55X series is indeed one of the best,if not the best assault rifle in the world.

Let´s talk more about the rifles and stop using stupid and childish arguments.

OOC:So you think the SIG-55X series of weapons isn´t one of the best and most accurate out of the box machine guns in the world?

Our version,is basically an upgraded SIG with better optics and a few refinements.



All the SiG series is is a very high quality AK clone, with better sights. Don't belive me? Compare the operating systems side by side, you will find them to be identical.

Of the ones above, I'd go for the Tavor but chambered in the 6,8mm round. The action should be easily able to take it, since it's Kalasnikov based.

Most experts DO say that the SIG 55X series is indeed one of the best,if not the best assault rifle in the world.

What, the pentagon propaganda spewing edutainment known as Future Weapons? Name some names here dude.

What, the pentagon propaganda spewing edutainment known as Future Weapons? Name some names here dude.

[in homoerotic whisper] "One hit from this.. and it's all over"

What, the pentagon propaganda spewing edutainment known as Future Weapons? Name some names here dude.

The Arms industry is filled with "experts" who will hype any current weapon as "The Best in Class". Most often the praise is heaped on H&K and Sig products.

What, the pentagon propaganda spewing edutainment known as Future Weapons? Name some names here dude.
I've watched that show a couple of times..I don't care wtf his credentials are like, the presentor dude buys into new stuff even more than Hitler did.

What's next? Him singing the (dubious) praises of the AN, and claiming the (superior, in arguably) AEK-971 is grossly inferior, and more complex?

"Huh...What's this box doing here?"


And now, years later, in MGS4...

"Huh, what's this oil drum doing here?"

It's amazing. Put an oil drum over your head and sit down in the middle of the road in some Eastern European city; no one will notice because obviously oil drums are found in the middle of the road.

However, it's much easier to do the Stinger-Scar alternative.

Going back to the point of this thread, I'd go for the FAMAS because it is:

a) Reliable
b) Small
c) Relatively accurate for its size
d) Better than the SA80
e) French
f) Awesome rifle is awesome.
g)EPIC PWNAGE
f) And modular if you're talking about the G2.

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=578897

http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=578897
Off topic I know, but I wish I had your weapon making skills mate.

The Arms industry is filled with "experts" who will hype any current weapon as "The Best in Class". Most often the praise is heaped on H&K and Sig products.
This is called a marketing department. H&K's and Sig Sauer's are both awesome. ;)

I've watched that show a couple of times..I don't care wtf his credentials are like, the presentor dude buys into new stuff even more than Hitler did.

What's next? Him singing the (dubious) praises of the AN, and claiming the (superior, in arguably) AEK-971 is grossly inferior, and more complex?

AEK more complex the the AN-94? What is he smoking..

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6668/1215319584244aq0.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1215319584244aq0.jpg)

AEK more complex the the AN-94? What is he smoking..

http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/6668/1215319584244aq0.th.jpg (http://img378.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1215319584244aq0.jpg)
Must be the same weed the Russian MOD was smoking when they decided to make the AN their next rifle instead of the AEK.:p

This is called a marketing department. H&K's and Sig Sauer's are both awesome. ;)

Indeed. The funny thing about it, is how much influence marketing has on the trades, and how THAT in turn influences mass-market thinking on sites like this one.

Indeed. The funny thing about it, is how much influence marketing has on the trades, and how THAT in turn influences mass-market thinking on sites like this one.
Don't look at me, I'm a G11 guy myself. Best gun that never was. ;)

Shameless advertisement plug.

http://forums3.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13482328&postcount=2

And to think I was originally going to make a G11 spinoff. Instead I ended with a caseless/polymer cased, recoiling barrel, gas-operated rifle with an "armor-piercing" burst fire mode where the second bullet is as accurate as the first, different from the "spray and pray" bursts from rifles like the M-16.

Now for a battle rifle... which can be in a relatively simple process converted into a precision or designated marksman rifle:

http://forums3.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13482410&postcount=3

Thanks for the feedback. So far, I see the Barrett REC7 as the number 1 choice. Unless the TAR gets a solid comeback, its the Barrett thats going to win.

i could use this post as a shameless plug for my rifle but you seem to be set on the real life weapon route.

so of the four weapons three of which are bullpups the other one is a M4 mod. i personaly would go with one of the bullpups (more to do with my dislike of the entire AR15 design then anything else) because they give good urban combat capability without sacrificing long range and power (unlike anything related to the M4)

of the three bullpups the Tavor is a brand new and allmost compltaly untested system and the FAMAS is just not flexible enough. i personaly would go with the L85A2(3) because its proven to be more accurate, longer ranged and more reliable then other comparable weapons and from what i've heard they've fixed all the major faults. The new STANAG 2324 RIS handguard and sightmount allow you to attach anything you could possibly want to it from lasers to mini dhoomsday devices.

if it had been a choice of any modern rifle i would have suggested a G36 variant possibly the KV

The thing i've found is that most of the bull-pop rifles here are only 5-7 inches shorter. Bullpops also have a tendency to overheat, so i think that they cancel each other out on that. The Barrett is a much better M4 mod in my opinion, fixing most problems with it and adding the bigger bullet help.

Bullpups are no more susceptible to overheating then conventional rifles
and while they are only a few inchs shorter they have much longer barrels and longer efective ranges for example

first of all dont use Wikipedia for technical information there are much more accurate sites out there

L85A2
overall length 780 mm
barrel length 518 mm
effective range 500+m

M4
overall length 838 mm
barrel length 370 mm
effective range 360m

to get a barrel length and effective range similer to the L85 you have to use the M16 series

M16A4
overall length 1006 mm
barrel length 508 mm
effective range 500+m

bullpups pack the capabilities of a full length rifle into a carbine length package.

in my opinion the basic design of the AR15 is seriously flawed and most of the so called inovations associated with it are mearly workarounds to deal with these flaws.

what really gets me is when someone exports a new rifle to america they insist on applying those same workarounds to the new weapons dispite the fact that it doesnt need nore require it.

the only saving grace of the REC7 is the 6.8 mm Remington SPC round which is by no means exclusive to the REC7. for example the FX-05 Xiuhcoatl can be chamberd in it

When you talk about the AR-15, your talking about the vietnam gun that jammed and had the problems, most of the US weaponry that was made then has gone through a complete refit to improve it, most notably the M-16. What was once a constantly jaming rifle, is now the most effective weapon any army is using as of today, though its no doubt old and modern weapons are now taking its abilities and addinng to them. The Bull-pop designes are no more effective than regular ones to me, an extra few inches isn't going to prevent me from using it just as a bull-pop. In fact, the way troops carry weapon now (professionally) is with it pointed down, but with the stock already on the shoulder, ready to be raised and fired. And as long as your not shooting at a wall that having 4 inches of more room would let you raise it, then the bullpops are no more effective than a regular rifle. ANd the bullpops don't longer ranges. The longest range weapons today are the regular ones, as their aren't any longer barrels on bullpops

When you talk about the AR-15, your talking about the vietnam gun that jammed and had the problems, most of the US weaponry that was made then has gone through a complete refit to improve it, most notably the M-16. What was once a constantly jaming rifle, is now the most effective weapon any army is using as of today, though its no doubt old and modern weapons are now taking its abilities and addinng to them. The Bull-pop designes are no more effective than regular ones to me, an extra few inches isn't going to prevent me from using it just as a bull-pop. In fact, the way troops carry weapon now (professionally) is with it pointed down, but with the stock already on the shoulder, ready to be raised and fired. And as long as your not shooting at a wall that having 4 inches of more room would let you raise it, then the bullpops are no more effective than a regular rifle. ANd the bullpops don't longer ranges. The longest range weapons today are the regular ones, as their aren't any longer barrels on bullpops

Actually he is refering to the direct impingment mechanism of the AR-15 design (the term AR-15 generally refers to the actual mechanism the M-16 and and the many other the other AR-15 derivatives use) Which as it was designed for is the lightest and mechanically simpliest way of doing things. However it is inherently more prone to jamming than a rod operated gas system due to the fact that the gas carries more dirt and heat back into the main body of the gun and relies on either extremely high quality propellant powder or LOTS of cleaning to function halfway reliably.

In terms of Jams in recent trials the M4 (carbine M16/AR-15) was about 4 times more likely to jam than a piston driven gun.

Luckily you don't need to worry about the AR-15 mechanism on the REC-9 sicne it uses a short stroke piston mechanism based off the AR-18 (as does the SA-80/L85).

Actually out of all your choices the SA-80 likely does have the lognest accurate range. Bullpup vs conventional layout is purely a mater of taste as there is no 100% convincing arguement for iehter.

As I said the REC-7 is the only one that particualrly stands out as beign worth chooseing as the other 3 are all much of a muchness

The SA-80 has an effective range of up to 500 m. The Tar has an effective of about 600, same with the REC7 (Not suprisingly as Barrett made the M82 sniper)while the FAMAS has a relativly same range, though a bit less.

The SA-80 has an effective range of up to 500 m. The Tar has an effective of about 600, same with the REC7 (Not suprisingly as Barrett made the M82 sniper)while the FAMAS has a relativly same range, though a bit less.

The stated range for the TAR on wiki is, if you will pardon the expression, bollocks.

The TAR-21 has a shorter barrel than the SA-80 and a lower muzzle velocity which would if anything indicate a shorter range. Pretty much all the 5.56mm rifles aren't much use beyond 400-500m. For 600m with 5.56mm ammo you need something like the L86 LSW.

Barrett's large calibre rifle experience has little to do with the REC-7. As with the 5.56mm rifles the range is driven primarily by the round. Personally I would consider about 500m to be a more realsitic range for an 18" barreled 6.8mm SPC rifle. If 600m+ range is what you want then 6.5mm Grendal would be a better option.

As I said out of your choices i would go with the REC-7 out of you choices as it is the only one that would offer more than a few subtle differences over the others.

When you talk about the AR-15, your talking about the vietnam gun that jammed and had the problems, most of the US weaponry that was made then has gone through a complete refit to improve it, most notably the M-16. What was once a constantly jaming rifle, is now the most effective weapon any army is using as of today, though its no doubt old and modern weapons are now taking its abilities and addinng to them. The Bull-pop designes are no more effective than regular ones to me, an extra few inches isn't going to prevent me from using it just as a bull-pop. In fact, the way troops carry weapon now (professionally) is with it pointed down, but with the stock already on the shoulder, ready to be raised and fired. And as long as your not shooting at a wall that having 4 inches of more room would let you raise it, then the bullpops are no more effective than a regular rifle. ANd the bullpops don't longer ranges. The longest range weapons today are the regular ones, as their aren't any longer barrels on bullpops

no offence intended but i doubt that you read my post properly

firstly
Bullpups do have longer barrels as i explained the L85 has a longer barrel then the 1m long M16A4 but is shorter then the M4 which is unable to get the best out of the 5.56 NATO round. this allows them to achive a longer range and get the most out of the rounds they use.

secondly
the bullpups vs conventional waepons debate has been going on since before the internet. in my veiw its a question of tactical doctrine so i wont go into it here

thirdly
my intense dislike of the AR15 weapons extends to the gas piston versions as well but its more to do with the entire layout of the design ie the placment of the charging handle so that it requires a forward assist as well as the buffer tube situation etc etc. in my opinion its all just an attempt to breath life into something that should be dead and buried by now.

finaly
as i have previusly stated if it had been a choice of any modern weapon i would have picked a G36 variant possibly the KV or the FX-05 Xiuhcoatl but of the four that you gave to chose from a variant of the L85 would be the one i would have

I'd listen to Crookfur,-Lorraine-, take this from someone who's talked to him about guns more than you have, he knows what he is talking about.

Edit: LOL Carbi Time-warped in front of me!

Now back to our regular broadcast:
Now for the fellows designing or looking for "the cheapest assault-rifle available that doesn't suck balls"...

First, action, Gas, barrel-recoil, or blowback (recoil of cartridge case+bolt alone).
Gas diverges into 4 catagories (short and long strokes, DImp, and "bang-bang"-potato-digger style)
Recoil actions, likewise, diverge into short, long, and a few more novel methods...

Then, you have locking mechanisms (Rotating lug, tilting-block, and roller-lock; plus lock locations on the bolt group [front and rear, some put it n both and a few more crazy designs incorporate multiples]), in blowback, they are ALL replaced with delay mechanisms. Delay mechanisms may wish be incorporated anyways in order to maintain a steady/controled ROF.

Then you have when the firing pin/bolt is released (open or closed bolt firing cycles), and firing modes (Semi, auto, burst [and how bursts are set]).

All of these have pros and cons, in weight, reliability, accuracy/deformation, simplicity, cost, and action-length.

Oh, right, and then there's how you want the cocking handle, trigger, ammo-feed, and grips to be... Which is another mess and a half to worry about in addition to how you want to make your rifle-barrel, sights, ammo-selection, stock-layout and what materials to use...

Then there's 'novelties', like "how does I cool a hot barrel", which is generally either by ambient temprature, air-blast, or "water".

A common 'buzzword' is FOOB, or Firing Out Of Battery, which is similar to API-Blowback (Advanced Primary Ignition), both are generally big no-noes when it comes to common-sense, as it involves firing the primer BEFORE the bolt even stopped moving (in other words, before the cartridge even made it all the way into the chamber, hence "out of battery"). The idea behind this is that the recoil must now first overcome the action's forward momentum, and in a fast and heavy bolt, this is considerable... The recoil impulse is then spread over a longer period of time (and made much smoother if you allow sufficient bolt-travel), the downside is generally slower than maximum cyclic ROF for a similar sized gun, but at immensly less felt recoil*.

*Shoot an M1911A1 from the chin, then shoot an M3A1, they both fire the same cartridge, and both would involve pressing your chin against cold unfeeling steel...
One fires semi-auto, the other pops off 300 per minute or better.