NationStates Jolt Archive

10:06 P.M.
Approximately Two Hours Before the Conference's Start


The palace was one of the oldest, most elegant buildings in Rammsteinburg. It had survived many periods of the nation's history, narrowly avoiding destruction on several occasions. Located in the cultural and economic capital of nation, the city of Ark, it was built somewhere around 1230, during the reign of King Rotzgrist IV of the Kingdom of Ramm. During that time Ark was far from the buzzing metropolis of today; it was mostly a collection of peasant-owned farms. The grand palace stood out then. Towering high into the sky, the massive building inspired awe in the people of the land. Today, though it has been over half a century since the fall of the monarchy in Rammsteinburg, this building still impressed Rammsteinburgians and instilled in them a strong feeling of patriotism; the palace was a sacred connection to the past, almost a holy site.

Inside Fleet Admiral Emmerich stood behind a podium practicing his opening speech before an empty room, which had once been the royal dining hall. In front of him tables had been set up for the delegations, and behind him was a large plasma screen. The carpeting of the room was purple and the walls were painted white and covered with pictures of kings and battles of Rammsteinburg's past. Being surrounded by so much history unnerved the President-General a bit, but he tried to forget where he was and concentrate on his speech.

Once done the admiral stepped out from behind the podium and paced the enormous room, taking in the amazing aura it possessed. The warrior spirit of Rammsteinburg pumped through his veins. He felt energized. I'm ready for this, he thought. And if this goes well, it just may be one of the highlights--maybe even the highlight--of my presidency.

Outside of the conference room Dr. Hans Sebastian Kohlberg, Rammsteinburg Minister of Foreign Affairs, and Prime Minister Eukrid Edmund Franz Josef Bach stood by the entrance to greet delegates, the former on the right and the latter on the left.


OOC: Sign-up here - http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=571854.

<At the Airport>

"Airforce one to Tower, request permission to land, runway 25"

Ark International Airport

"Air Force One, this is tower, permission granted. Welcome to Rammsteinburg!"

A black SUV drove towards the runway where The Battlehawk delegation's plane would be landing. It would transport the representatives to the palace.

OOC: Can we skip the landing stuff from here on and get right to entering the palace?

President Paul Newman strood down the hall, feeling on top of the world. Who would have guessed, that a poor little conscript like him would be joining the major nations of the world in an alliance?

He attracted some stares, but that was probably down to the two Tin Men, walking with him.

He entered the seating area, which was already half full. No doubt filled with various, useless dignitaries, and rabble rousers. But that was below him. He was only interested in the General at the Podium...

<A short time later>

President Daniel Clark stepped out of the SUV and looked up at the Palace

<A short time later>

President Daniel Clark stepped out of the SUV and looked up at the Palace

Jean-Yves Sareau looked at the bustling metropolis from his cabin. The Ordo Drakul had empowered him to investigate this Grand Warlord Alliance, and speak on their behalf. Of course, the labyrinth of bureaucracy would have it's due-he would report his findings to the Voivode for ratification, who would then pass them on to the Castle of Lead who would ban it entire, or do nothing-the Matriarchs never approved anything, but non-forbiddance was as close as they came-then the entire matter would go before the Silentium, and a vote-by which time Sareau would be long in his grave and matters with the Alliance long since established, but the Silentium was the final word-their current haggling over non-religious use of Fire was still a hotbutton issue in those drafty corridors.
Sareau himself was slender, slightly under two meters in height, wearing the drab robes of the Order of Argan Argari-merchants and traders, as well as his nation's financial institution from Time Immemorial. The unobtrusive pouch at his waist held his Blackberry and Unibank card, both smeared with an unpleasant contact poison he had been given treatments for, and hung next to the small hatchet that marked him as Baron of Hiddenvale, one of the smaller baronies of the Vale of Flowers, and a minor noble of the Bee Tribe.
Beneath his robes, he wore a standard black suit, unadorned but for the crest of the Ordo Drakul on his breast pocket. He would have abandoned robes and hatchet, but the sumptuary laws of his people were still strictly enforced, and there would be photographers-there were always photographers.
"You disparage our ways-thinking of going native." His advisor hissed calmly beneath a hood of midnight blue so dark as to appear black. "It would not be wise, you are correct in that. So long as you represent us, you will abide."
"Actually, I was wondering if I should have more standard identification-I doubt the Rammsteiners are conversant with our dress code." Sareau's voice was a rich contralto, with a slight purr identifying his homeland to those as studied such things.
His advisor shuffled in his robes, adjusting his position without seeming to relax. "Documents preceded us-we have duplicates for presentation-or rather, our honor guard does." he nodded vaguely in the direction of the two Zorak Zorani in their black and red kevlar. They snapped to, and one held forth a briefcase. "These will identify us to the Rammsteiners-though I am interested in seeing if they permit that."
Sareau looked down at his hatchet, gleaming and oiled. "They may have me bind it with a truce-string, but they will not claim it." He huffed imperiously. "I am Baron Hiddenvale, as well as a diplomat."
"We will see-I will attend to clearances that we may dock." The advisor rose, inclined slightly, and left.
Sareau felt a wave of relief as the man left-the Order of Annilla were disquieting, and this one hadn't even given his name, yet-though he was probably one of the Venn Clan, the shadowy masters of the Blue Moon Plateau. He indicated his glass to one of the ship's crew, in the safety orange oilskin marking the Order of Gadblad, and the engineer smiled and filled the glass from his hip flask instead of the ambassador's cupboard.
Sareau smiled in return, and raised the glass in a small toast. "Thank you."
Soon, the advisor returned. "A motorcade shall take us to the Palace-please, we should not like to offend by appearing reluctant."
Sareau put on his most official demeanor, and headed to the vehicle, surveying the city as he did...

The official and his right hand man stood out outside the palace, leaning back to observe the height of the highest towers. After a few moments like this, they both set off to meet the men waiting for them by the doors. Both were pale, and both were obviously warriors, as evidenced by numerous scars on their bare hands, as well as a few on their face and neck. Once at the entrance, they towered over the other men. The first man, clearly the superior, was thickly built with buzz-cut brown hair and nearly seven feet tall, slightly taller than his subordinate, a somewhat stockier individual with the same haircut.

The two men entered the seating area, which was quickly filling, and stood by the door, observing the situation.

He entered the seating area, which was already half full. No doubt filled with various, useless dignitaries, and rabble rousers. But that was below him. He was only interested in the General at the Podium...

OOC: President-General. He's not an actual general, rather an admiral.

Colonel Jack Eichmann had accompanied President Clark to the palace. They got out of the SUV, and the colonel noticed Clark staring in awe at the magnificent palace. "It's a real beauty," he said, looking up and smiling at it himself. "Come on, let's go inside."

OOC: I forgot to mention this. You can send as many delegates as you want, but only one of them can be a voting representative.

The first of the guests were arriving. Prime Minister Bach and Minister Kohlberg greeted them all as politely as possible and directed them to their assigned seats. Fleet Admiral Emmerich personally greeted the first arrivals, but then disappeared from sight; he retreated to his cabin to relax and make some final adjustments to his opening speech.

Armed guards from each branch of the Rammsteinburg armed forces roamed the conference room, conspicuously attired in their full dress uniforms. They carefully eyed all of the attendees, but so as to not put anybody at unease, occasionally went up to some of them and engaged them in small talk.

The time was 11:20 P.M. The conference would begin in just over half an hour.

Daniel took in the buidlignas he was led to his place

Vice Admiral Sarah Dresner was one of several top Rammsteinburgian officials present at the conference. At 6'2" she was an intimidating woman, albeit a lovely one; her hair was a natural bright red and her face unusually youthful. Her stunning appearance, however, was the lesser of how extraordinary qualities. Most considered her one of the best officers in the entire Rammsteinburg military, and it was widely speculated that she was on her way to becoming the first female chief of naval operations. She walked around the conference room, observing the guests. Feeling a bit bored, she decided a little conversation would be pleasant. The admiral walked up to the delegates from Tiurabo and introduced herself.

Colonel Eichmann brought President Clark to a table in the first row. "I hope you enjoy your stay in Rammsteinburg," he said. "Your room is on the third floor if you wish to check it out before the conference begins. I'm sure you'll love it." The colonel saluted the Battlehawk president and departed.

Sareau gazed upon the Palace-thirteenth century, he guessed-these things always looked like ornate prisons, but it was impressive, well-maintained and doubtless extensively renovated-his people would have a maze of hidden corridors for the ease of the servants, that they may perform their functions without imposing their presence on others, but he did not know enough about Rammsteinberg to leap to such conclusions.
Cordially, he greeted his hosts, spreading his hands in a small bow to show he bore no fell intent, before asking:"My advisor should like to watch these proceedings unobtrusively-is there an observation gallery or some such that may accommodate him? My guards would doubtless prefer somewhat closer positioning, but they are Zorak Zorani, and quite overprotective-they will be no bother."

Duke Blaise and his National Security advisor Admiral Ney finally arrived at the palace, they were greeted outside and lead into the conference room.

For the Duke the last few weeks were his baptism of fire. Assuming the leadership of his country on what was practically the eve of a war with Rammsteinburg, yet through the tumultuous period both he and the new Rammsteinburg President - General Emmerich had built a quick bond of trust that saw them both bring a successful conclusion to a very tense period.

The Duke was looking to reconstruct the very society of his Duchy, he wanted to replace the archaic Order of Knights system with a more modern society based on citizenship, citizenship which was based on service and allegiance to Rechburg.
However for the Duke to complete this course of social upheaval he needed security from his neighbours, and this meeting offered that chance. Admiral Ney his national security advisor had pointed out to him though a large body of alliances offered considerable protection, they usually either resulted in nothing being achieved as they stagnated through endless debates, or countries were being dragged into wars over issues and regions that pertained very little to their own national interest.

As they walked the corridors, seeing many familiar faces, the Duke was prepared to consider the alliance in both the terms of opportunity for peace, but the disadvantage of it merely being a massive beauacracy with hidden and undiscovered threats of endless wars.

Prime Minister Bach responded to Sareau. "There are a couple of balconies overlooking the room." He turned and pointed at one. "If you want to go there, ask one of the guards, and they'll take you."

The President-General lay in a massive bed with burgundy pillows and a purple silk sheet. His red dress jacket, decorated with three rows of medals, rested on the chair in front of the adjacent desk, and his tie was loosened. He carefully reread his speech for the last time, and he decided that it was perfect--well, as close to perfect as was humanly possible.

He got up and stretched. Looking at his watch, he saw that it was almost time; it was now 11:40. He called for the guard outside of his door. In entered a baby-faced marine PFC. "Yes, Admiral, sir?" he asked. His tone suggested a great deal of nervousness at being in the presence of the highest official in The Great Warlord Republic.

"Calm down, son," the President-General said. "I won't bite, I swear."

The marine nodded and said, "Okay."

"Get me a report on the who's here, please," Emmerich requested. The guard got on the radio and asked. A guard in the conference room replied twenty seconds later with a list of the present delegations: "The Republic of the Battlehawk, Avoya.... Rechburg."

"Rechburg, eh? Ask the duke if he could come up here and see me. I'd like to speak with him before the conference starts."

Downstairs a navy Master-at-Arms approached Duke Blaise and Admiral Ney. "Excuse me, sirs, President-General Emmerich would like to see the duke," he said.

Sareau smiled at Prime Minister Bach, and bowed again. "Thank you-one of my guards will accompany them, and we should be overjoyed if your guard should remain to facilitate their needs? If it's no bother, of course."
He gestured, and one of the black-and-red guards moved to hover behind the advisor as he apologised to the Prime Minister. "We know so little of your land and culture, the Voivode thought it best to send a sociologist. He has an aversion to speaking to those observed for fear of tainting them. I do hope it isn't taken as rudeness..."
As the three headed off, Sareau turned to Bach once more:"I do hope this day is remembered as a building block for something greater-I should hate for the isolationists of our land to have something to crow about."

The Duke followed the Guard to the President General's quarters, he was appreciative of having the chance to speak with him for a few moments before the formalities of national interests, that these conferences demanded.

The guard took the Duke up a winding flight of stairs. It led up to the second floor, which had originally been used as servant's quarters. In days of Rammsteinburgian monarchy, the royal family slept on the fifth floor, and the President-General intentionally avoided placing his quarters there. The marine PFC saluted the Duke's escort, a lieutenant; he then saluted the Duke and knocked on the door. Admiral Emmerich said "Enter," and the guard held open the door.

"Ah, my good friend, hello!" the President-General exclaimed as Duke Blaise entered. "It's a pleasure to see you again. Please take a seat." He gestured to the chair in front of the desk. The admiral sat on his bed.

"I'm glad you came up here. I thought it important we speak before the conference." Emmerich opened a desk drawer and pulled out a bottle of "Ramm-rum"--a yellowish, bitter-tasting alcoholic beverage popular in the rural regions of Rammsteinburg. He continued to speak as he poured himself a glass. "As my neighbour, it means a lot to have you express an interest in this alliance. So, I asked you here so you could share any thoughts you have on it." He took a sip of his drink. "Oh, and to see if you had any special requests, of course." The President-General grinned and extended the bottle towards the Duke as an offering.

Attention all members.

I have recieved a hostile statement/ actions from Anemos Major. I do not wish to deal with this militarily, so can all members message Anemos Major, on this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk./showthread.php?t=567964) thread to stop being overly agressive.

This is a good first test, to see if we can work together.

The Duke accepted the bottle and poured himself a drink with great relish, he had tried the Ramm run once when he visited Rammsteinburg with his father, the taste and smell brought back pleasant memories, of both his visit and his father.

The extremely gracious and friendly welcome shown by the President General encouraged the much younger Duke to share his views.

"Well I have to say my friend, you seem to have gathered quite a large and varied response to your invitation. I am a little concerned the proposed alliance if as large as the initial response shows may become unwieldy, however i have a feeling under your guidance you will keep it functional and lean."

The Duke once more taking a sip of the rum, watched the President General, he couldnt help but beaware that this elder statesman could have easily have been his father, they are so alike he thought; and on that basis I need to trust my instincts.

"My friend, whatever happens out there, be assured you and your country will have the greatest respect both from me personally and my nation. We already have mutual defence pact, I hope by the end of this meeting we have a efficient alliance system".

Sorry, I withdraw my request, it was incorrect of me to ask for help, before we have signed an agreement. (Help would still be appreciated!)

where is everyone else?

The glow on the young Duke's face pleased the President-General. Since the infamous Red Dawn incident several months ago, he and the leader of Rechburg had become close friends, and the relationship between the Duchy and The Great Warlord Republic became stronger than ever. Admiral Emmerich genuinely liked Duke Blaise; he viewed him like a son, especially since he and his wife had never been--and now never will be--blessed with children of their own. He poured himself a second glass of the Ramm-rum and drank it in one large swallow. His belly became warm and his disposition a little brighter. The nervousness he had experienced not 10 minutes ago subsided.

"I know, I was thinking the same thing," the President-General said when the Duke was finished. "It is good to know that however this thing goes, I'll still have a close ally in Rechburg." He contemplated having one more glass of the liquor, but Ramm-rum was a very strong beverage, and the last thing he needed was to start a conference while smashed. "The number of prospective members really does seem a bit much, and I really don't want to form another useless, bureaucracy-choked organization. I've noticed a great deal of these nations are fairly small, too--less than one billion people. I've been giving some thought as to making the alliance a bit more exclusive, but right now we can't afford to be picky, now can we?"

Vice Admiral Sarah Dresner was one of several top Rammsteinburgian officials present at the conference. At 6'2" she was an intimidating woman, albeit a lovely one; her hair was a natural bright red and her face unusually youthful. Her stunning appearance, however, was the lesser of how extraordinary qualities. Most considered her one of the best officers in the entire Rammsteinburg military, and it was widely speculated that she was on her way to becoming the first female chief of naval operations. She walked around the conference room, observing the guests. Feeling a bit bored, she decided a little conversation would be pleasant. The admiral walked up to the delegates from Tiurabo and introduced herself.

Hearing her approach, the taller of the two men turned to meet the Vice Admiral with a gracious smile. Upon seeing the woman, he seemed quietly shocked, though he recovered gracefully, extending a massive hand to her in greeting.

Min-ho Kerak, Chief Envoy of the Ministry of Rites let out a low whistle at the elegance of the palace. It was smaller than the massive palace of the Vrakian King but it was more…well…complicated looking with more carvings and whatnot. The Vrakians preferred a more simple style. This palace reminded Kerak of the buildings in Port Olympus. He sighed as he thought of the troubles in his homeland.

The hulking bodyguard remained stoic while the buxom Julia Trampak looked on. It was a far cry from the simple village that she grew up in, however she got over her provincial ways after attending university in the capital.

They ascended the steps and found their way to the meeting area. As per his people’s custom, Kerak bowed to the Rammsteinburg dignitaries, watching carefully to see what reciprocal gesture would occur - which he would do likewise. Julia would follow her boss’s lead while the bodyguard would merely grunt and keep a wary eye out for others as well as memorizing the layout and look for the easiest exit route. Kerak did the same, since he was VIS trained, but was more focused on his hosts.

“I am Min-ho Kerak, Chief Envoy of the Vrak Ministry of Rites. The Ministry is the equivalent of your foreign affairs, Dr. Kohlberg. My aide, Julia Trampak and my security detail…well…let’s just say he’s my security detail,” he waived to the giant. “We thank you for your generous invitation.”

“It is an honour Prime Minister, Minister,” said Julia also with a bow.

Kerak himself was a medium built older man, wearing a rather expensive suit and polished, jet-black shoes. The younger Julia wore a vivid red dress with a plunging neckline showing off her ample bosom. The brooding Inuit also wore a suit, but no tie. He also wore sunglasses and a sharp-eyed person would detect a small ear piece which was, in fact, a communications device for the personnel aboard the hypersonic jet. A tattoo of a spider adored the back of his right hand, while the left had a tattoo of a giant squid.

The Duke shook his head in agreement,
" I think through attrition and location mean many will drop out of the alliance, and hopefully the remainders will be active."

Finishing the last of the Rum, he stood and rather sheepishly smiled at the President General.

"There is one more thing, that I feel quite awkward mentioning; my mother is always harping on at me that as a Duke I need to marry to maintain the line. Obviously I recognise that in a marriage I am making an alliance for life with the brides nation.
I am wondering... errr hoping that you or your good wife would do me the honour of possibly seeking amongst your nobles a suitable match. I am very determined that I find a match and an alliance with a nation in the Pacific, I can think of nothing more preferable than an alliance through marriage than with Rammsteinburg.
It will mean for the first time in Rechburg history a Duke is marrying outside the nobility of Rechburg, but this is one of the changes I am struggling to bring about in Rechburg; the need to recognise we are part of the larger world."

The President-General was taken aback by the Duke's question. "Well, I certainly wasn't expecting this," he said. He smiled and thought. "Don't get me wrong, though, I am very honored. I'll see what I can do. You know that Rammsteinburg did away with monarchy half a century ago, but there are still a lot of people with blood ties to it still around if that pleases you." Emmerich laughed and said, "If only I had a daughter of my own. I'd be more than happy to give her hand in marriage to a man such as yourself."

The time was 11:52. "I better be getting ready," said the President-General.

Vice Admiral Dresner put on her best smile for the men from Tiurabo. She shook their hands and said, "Gentleman, it's nice to see you here today. I'm afraid I know very little about your country. Won't you tell me a bit?"

The Duke smiled to himself,
"so it was still possible to shake the old man,", he then bowed and said

"Well Gottfried my friend good luck"

The President-General returned the bow and bid his friend farewell. Once again alone in his quarters, he gathered up some important documents and placed them in a thick manila folder which a guard would deliver to the podium before he arrived. He then went into the bathroom and splashed his face with some cold water.

The face Admiral Emmerich saw in the mirror did not please him. He was no longer handsome. His skin was wrinkled, and his hair was thinning and turning gray. Aging is a bitch, he thought. But he tried not to get too upset by his outwardly appearance. On the outside, he may seem like a weak old man, but on the inside strength, courage, and the warrior spirit of Rammsteinburg were as potent as ever. No, the President-General told himself, he was not like his predecessor, Fleet Admiral Fredenmuenster, the fool who refused to admit that his age had deprived him of his abilities. Krystan Gottfried Emmerich, son a humble half-indigenous auto mechanic, is still a competent leader.

The marine guard came in and took the folder. The clock on the wall read 11:56. Just four more minutes...

The four Vhammpyrian Warriors walked out of the wooded fringe near the Meeting Hall and made straight for one of the guards at the door of the building where diplomats of numerous countries were entering. As they approached the guard, his eyes went wide at the apparition before him.

The Warriors stood around seven and a half feet tall, heavily muscled, long grey hair falling almost to the ground. They were armed with their ceremonial swords and knives as well as a few of the "trophies" of battle tied to their battle harnesses. Bits and pieces of bone, some decaying flesh, an ear or two, and necklaces of the teeth of former enemies hung around their necks.

The Warrior who was in charge of the little delegation spoke to the guard in a barely-intelligible tongue. "Please be so kind as to inform whoever it is that has to be informed that we are here. I am Lord Commander Chthlu, Baron of Yorgath, General of the Eastern Armies of Vhammpyr. Now go."

The guard, surprising himself, did as he was told, and in just a couple of minutes, he was being accompanied by an official-looking person.......

Paul Newman, returned after several frantic confrences, in which he prevented over seven nations from going to war, took his seat, ready for the meeting

Two columns of 5 armed guards each marched out of the northern entrance to the conference room. Once all were out, they halted, faced left, and stood at attention. Five rufles and flourishes blared over the loudspeakers. All uniformed Rammsteinburgians present also stood at attention, their civilian clothed countrymen standing in a display of respect. It was clear that the President-General was about to arrive.

Sareau excused himself and made his way to his seat, waiting for the remaining guard to check the chair and signal approval by pulling it out for Sareau to seat himself. Casually, he pulled out his Blackberry and activated it's notebook function, poising his fingers to type and waiting attentively for the meeting to start.
Up in the balcony, his advisor sat with the expression of the very bored or very dead, the other guard hovering over him as a Rammsteiner sat nearby, trying to give the pair some privacy while still watching for any untoward behavior. Sareau repressed a grin-it was always amusing to force the Ordo Annilla to do the impossible, if only to see how.
He bent his attention to the first speaker, and began to take notes...

Rammsteiner

OOC: For future reference, Rammsteinburgian or Rammsteinburger is the appropriate form of address for somebody from The Great Warlord Republic.


He bent his attention to the first speaker, and began to take notes...

Eh, you're jumping ahead, mate. Nobody's speaking yet.

The ruffles and flourishes ended and was followed by "Hail to the Chief." Out walked Fleet Admiral Emmerich. He radiated an aura of pure elegance as he marched proudly between the two columns of guards, dressed in his seldom-used red ceremonial uniform and with his gold-handled officer's sword at his side. "Hail to the Chief" was still playing when he reached the podium, so he waited 10 seconds for the music to stop. He then said, "Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much for coming here today. Please remain standing for the national anthem of Rammsteinburg." A waving flag of The Great Warlord Republic appeared on the large plasma screen behind the President-General and "Das Lied der Rammsteinburg" (The Song of Rammsteinburg) began. This century old song began as a melancholic melody, but quickly evolved into a fast, bombastic tune not unlike something a victorious army would play as it marched down the streets of the conquered enemy capitol. It lasted 45 seconds. "You may now be seated," Admiral Emmerich said.

The President-General carefully looked over all of the faces of the delegates present. It was a very diverse group of people, he noticed. Each delegation represented a culture different from his own, with its own set of values and customs. Would he be able to appease them all during this conference, he wondered? Of course, this was a question asked while the answer was already known: probably not. Everybody being happy was a rare occasion in international affairs; it was just another unfortunate fact of life one had no choice but to accept. The President-General would try his best, however, to make each prospective member of the alliance as pleased as possible.

The waving Rammsteinburg flag disappeared on the plasma screen, replaced by the agenda for the conference. It read as follows:

Mission of the alliance
Governance
Membership Requirements
Membership Dues
Mutual Defense
Trade
Joint Exercises


This was, of course, merely a rough outline. Inevitably some other topics would come up.

The President-General cleared his throat and spoke: "Today, I hope, will be a historic day: the beginning of years of mutual friendship between all of the nation's represented here. Every so often, maybe about once in every generation, a truly meaningful international organization is formed. But for every one genuinely useful organization there are 50 bad ones. Which will The Grand Warlord Alliance be? I honestly don't know, but what I do know is that the answer is up to us. We can either start another useless, bureaucracy-choked joke, or we can form a group that actually gets something done! Please, keep that on your mind as we battle each other in heated debates over the next couple of days--or couple of weeks, however long it takes us to get done."

"You can see behind me the agenda for the conference." He turned slightly and pointed at the screen. "I don't want to stand up here giving a grand speech with lots of fancy words and quotes from famous philosophers and world leaders. And I'm sure you don't want me to do that either. So then, let us get to work. As you can see, the first issue on the agenda is the mission of this alliance. There are red buzzers on each delegation's table. Please hit that when you have something to say. And let's be civil about this, people. Speak only when called on to do so. No interrupting anybody. Oh, and try to keep the language light, okay? I'm a career sailor, so I know how tempting it can be to drop an 'f' bomb every other word, but let's refrain from that. So, who would like to begin?"

The Duke pressed the red Button, he rose to speak

"The Duchy of Rechburg, envisages this alliance being a regional one, that is Pacific area. The reason for this is simply practicality, that being the ability of the alliance members being able to effectively support each other.
Following on from that, I would see the mission of the alliance being a regional one rather than global. To bring Peace, security and prosperity to the Pacific region.
If there is to be a global aspect, then let that be through the trade element of the alliance only."

He sat down once again.

Rammsteinburg Minister of Foreign Affairs wanted to speak first, but Duke Blaise had beat him to it. He patiently waited as the leader of Rechburg spoke and then pressed the buzzer again. Admiral Emmerich nodded at him.

"I see the esteemed leader of the Duchy of Rechburg's point. It would be difficult for a military alliance to effectively support each other unless the members were in same region. However, while difficult, it is not necessarily impossible. We may be able to work something out. But we should hold off on this issue for the time being. Let us first determine what the mutual defense rules of this alliance will be first." As he began to sit, Prime Minister Bach rose.

"I agree with Dr. Kohlberg that we should hold off on that matter for now," he said. "I believe that the primary mission of this alliance should be the improvement of each member nation's military forces, through regular joint exercises, trade, research cooperation, and through occasional meetings on new tactics and technology. In the interest of national sovereignty, joining forces in time of war should be a purely voluntary matter, at least in most cases." He sat and folded his arms across his chest.

The President-General's eyes scanned the room.

OOC -

Something I just thought of: In order to avoid certain problems, please ALWAYS recheck this thread for new responses before posting one of your own.

The taller of the two men at the Tiurabo table stood, pressing the button.

"I propose that joining or aiding an ally in war be voluntary except in such cases in which Alliance forces are not enough to hold their own, or in which destruction of a member nation is likely enough to pose serious danger to the Alliance as a whole." He sat, resuming a quiet conversation with his companion.

Dr. Kohlberg spoke up in response to the delegate form Tiurabo. "But should not the cause of the war be taken into consideration? Are member nations to send their armed forces to die for another's imperial ambitions? Member nations should only be required to help others when the war has a legitimate national security purpose."

Admiral Emmerich intervened. "Gentleman, let us not quarrel over the specifics of the mutual defense aspect of the alliance just yet. Right now we should develop a simple mission statement and handle the details later."

President Paul Newman decided it was time to make an important comment.

"sirs, I have drafted a possible constitution for our organization. It was designed for more countries, but in esence it should work. You will find it on my website here (http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/leagcov.asp). It has the idea of an assembly, and a council, which I think would work. there would be 3-7 permenent members to the council (so Rammsteinburg, Rechburg, Ordo Drakul, myself ect) and then the less active members would be in the assembly, which also had power.

an ammendment I would like to make is the addition, of act 27, which states that member nations must donate 1% of the national defence budget, or equivelent soldiers to the Alliance, so there is a substantial standing army.

this is my proposal, and I look foward to your opinions.

OOC: I have not had time to go through and edit the Charter, but once I do so, it will have its own thread.

The giant stood again. "Admiral, you said not five minutes ago that we must focus on Mutual Defense, instead of squabbling over the Mission Statement. I ask that you decide an issue to be discussed and that we remain on it."

OOC: Errr... No, he didn't. ;) You're thinking of Minister of Foreign Affairs Dr. Kohlberg, who said that the mutual defense rules must be worked out before the alliance is limited to a certain region.

OOC: Ah, I misread it. Apologies.

Emmerich was unsure of how to respond to President Newman's announcement. Silence filled the conference room. Finally, Dr. Kohlberg broke it. "Well, Mr. President, this is some very unanticipated news you've thrown on us. I'm not sure I like your jumping ahead, but I would be happy to review the document you have prepared."

OOC: I'd prefer to draft the alliance constitution from scratch. Editing the charter for the League of Nations just seems like cheating to me, and it's really no fun. It would be no problem for me either. I've written such things for NS before.

OOC: Will we be writing this IC?

The Duke hit the button again.

"In line with Dr Kohlberg's comments I suggest that we cement in the principles of what the alliance stands for.

To that end I have taken some quick notes

"1) To ensure peace and stability for all its members.
2) To ensure understanding between nations by regular meetings and discussions.
3) To enhance trade between members.
4) To assist members in developing their nations economically.
5) Through the benefits of collective security we will ensure member nations are secure from external threats, and that any internal issues are resolved between members.
6) the increased ability of each nations military to respond to threats by continual alliance training and exchange of information.

Ladies and Gentleman, I am not a lawyer, I will leave the flowering of the phraselogy for those better equipped than myself, but these are the principles that I see as viable objectives."

OOC: Will we be writing this IC?

OOC: As you can see, that's what we've been doing.

"I couldn't agree more with the Duke," Dr. Kohlberg said.

The President-General added, "His list of principles do seem perfectly in line with what I had in mind when I conceived this alliance. Are there any comments?"

After a moment of hushed debate with his second, the taller man stood from the Tiurabo table for the second time.

"We agree with the principles presented by the Duke of Rechburg. They are what we expected, and we are glad to not be disappointed."

Sareau considered, then tapped his button. "Regarding the first point-ensuring peace and stability among members-will there be an exception noted for strictly internal matters, specifically a civil war? I do not believe we should take sides in such things, beyond ensuring no foreign interests taking part."

OOC: I'm just going to skip the introductions and run my delegates to the conference, is that okay?

IC:

Head of Defense Gerwulf Guadalupe of The United Territories of Mu Cephei cursed himself. Being late is note good for making good relations. He as well as two of his personnel aids had only arrived in the airport an hour or so before and were still on their way to the conference in taxi of sorts.

Finally they arrived at where they told to go for the conference, Gerwulf Guadalupe stepped out of the cab and paid the driver. Gerwulf straighten out his military dress uniform and with his aids following entered the building before them. They quickly entered the old building and after identifying themselves they were led to the conference room.

"Apologies for my tardiness," Gerwulf said upon entering the large room, "my name is Gerwulf Guadalupe and I am the Head of Defense of my beloved country Mu Cephei. The Chancellor requested that I ask for all of your forgiveness, but he has matters to attend to that have stopped him from coming to the conference himself." Gerwulf told his aids to stay out of trouble and sat down at a nearby table.

Prime Minister Bach stood and expressed his agreement with Sareau. As he sat footsteps echoed in the room. Everybody turned their attention to Gerwulf Guadalupe and his aides.

The President-General forgave the delegates from Mu Cuphei for their tardiness and assured them that they had missed little. "Right now we are going over the mission statement of the alliance." He repeated Duke Blaise's proposal.

Turning back to the assembly, the Tiuraboan speaker clicked the button once more.

"I suggest that matters of civil war, meaning conflict between two or more members, remain between the states involved, and that the rest of the Alliance refrain from entering the conflict unless they have a reason other than the fact of being in the Alliance. Otherwise, a small conflict between two member states could escalate into a full fledged war between two sides of the Alliance."

The President-General forgave the delegates from Mu Cuphei for their tardiness and assured them that they had missed little. "Right now we are going over the mission statement of the alliance." He repeated Duke Blaise's proposal.

"Thank you for your forgiveness and that sounds about right. I in the name of Mu Cephei agree with Duke Blaise's proposal," Gerwulf Guadalupe nodded to his aids who began jotting down notes for the Chancellor's review later.

Turning back to the assembly, the Tiuraboan speaker clicked the button once more.

"I suggest that matters of civil war, meaning conflict between two or more members, remain between the states involved, and that the rest of the Alliance refrain from entering the conflict unless they have a reason other than the fact of being in the Alliance. Otherwise, a small conflict between two member states could escalate into a full fledged war between two sides of the Alliance."

"I wish to respectfully disagree. The alliance should not only join the conflict, but put an end to it through diplomacy or force. If two or more members begin to fight then diplomatic actions should be taken to ensure violence does not break out and if it does," Gerwulf Guadalupe paused wondering if he should bring up the idea of internal alliance warfare yet, "volunteer alliance members should begin to mobilize their armed forces to put an end to the fighting without taking any sides. Of course diplomacy is preferred."

The speaker from Tiurabo stood again, hand resting on the button.

"I meant, of course, that in the event that hostilities escalated to full scale war between the two belligerents, other member states should do their best to aid one side over another. For example, two nations here go to full scale war after negotiations fail. Another member backs one of them, and another backs the other side. It could spiral out of control very quickly. Before that happens, every state should focus on making sure that fighting never breaks out.

"The purpose of this Grand Alliance of Warlords is, correct me if I am wrong, to become one of the most formidable fighting forces in the world, combining the member states military power into an unstoppable warmachine. This goal cannot be reached if we are constantly fighting wars amongst ourselves.

"I believe, however, that the threat of civil war is very low, and that our time here would be better spent looking outward. As long as we move forward, there should be no reason for conflict between any nation in the Alliance." Having said his piece, the speaker sat back down.

To the surprise of Prime Minister Bach, Dr. Kohlberg took sides with Gerwulf Guadalupe. "In the event of a civil war, I think it is best that the alliance take the side of the current government of that nation and send forces to squash rebel forces," he said. As he did so he thought back to his own experiences in the Second Civil War of Rammsteinburg, during which three of his younger brothers and one of his daughters were killed. "The true nature of a friendship is revealed during the toughest of times, and there is no event more devastating to a nation than a civil war. What good is this alliance if members don't help each other when it's needed most?" He forgot that he had proposed putting off the matter of mutual defense until later.

When the Minister of Foreign of Affairs sat, Prime Minister Bach leaned over to him and whispered, "What was that?"

"I'm sorry, sir, but I believe that we should help during the outbreak of a civil war," was the reply. Dr. Kohlberg did not turn to look his superior in the face.

"Hans, are you letting your emotions dictate your actions?"

"Have you ever known me to do that?"

"Well, no... You've always been one to put logic first, but--"

Kohlberg interrupted. "Logic IS what's guiding my decisions, Eukrid." He turned his head towards the Prime Minister. "A civil war can be very difficult to put down. The government in power could use all the help it can get."

"What if the government is corrupt?" Bach asked. "If the people of a member nation don't like their government, let them overthrow it. What business is it of outsiders? Internal politics, that's all it is. I want no part of it!"

The speaker stood again.

"Pardon, sir, by civil war, we mean between members of the Alliance, not just a nation."

The President-General spoke. "In the event of hostilities between members of this alliance, there should be no collective action on the matter; officially, the alliance as a whole should just ignore it. If individual members want to take a certain side, fine, let them, but nobody should be obligated to fight another member nation."

"Very well," said the speaker. "If my counterparts are satisfied, I suggest we move on."

Admiral Ney leaned over to the Duke, quietly talking into his ear.

"All this lets ignore a civil war reads well in newspapres but it's a load horse crap, what usually happens in a civil war is they are like escalating battles.
Both sides start of with small forces and as the casualties mount they pour in more, so what may have started as a skirmish ends up in a massive battle.

Civil wars are like that Sire, It is what happened to us in the 1967 Caledonian war, one province argued with another in the Upper house, and eventually it lead to border skirmishes between states; eventually other states took sides and then sides sought outside allies.

If we ignore a civil war, we by doing nothing allow the possibility of escalation.
To me we should squash the bastards, any tin pot rebel that sticks his head up to be counted, deserves to have it cut off; that is what your father would have done."

The Duke smiled to himself, his National security Advisor was off the old school, one that the young Duke wished he belonged too. Sadly, he was a product of the modern age, where positioning and eloquence took precedence over common sense.
Of course the Admiral was right, 'They should have their damned heads cut off', but he doubted this conference was ready for that just yet.

The Duke pressed his button, waited for the President-general to finish.

"It is the Duchy of Rechburgs position that any civil war within an alliance is a war against a contracting party. Governments sign pleadges and agreements, they do so understanding that in their hour of need they will receive aid if they ask. If we as a body were to debate who is a dictator, and whose cause is right, we will achieve nothing other than create the worlds largest debating circle.
If we allow the tinpot dictator to join this alliance, we must have the courage to support him, whether his cause is just.
Who amongst us, can say we live in a nation that is total paradise and every subject or citizen is 100% loyal, there will always be dissent, therefore there will always be a civil war."

He looked around the members, and then continued

"Members have the courage of your convictions, Rechburg says if you have a civil war in your country, right or wrong you will have our support"

He sat down again and winked at Admiral Ney, the Admiral nodded with a smile.

"Actually, in the event of factionalising among ourselves, between two member nations, we should involve ourselves-on the side of peace and community." Sareau replied softly. "I referred entirely to internal matters contained within a member nation.
"For those of you not conversant with my people and our ways, let me elaborate: our society is feudal in nature, with numerous clans and tribes continually bickering for prominence as the Orders form a lattice binding our society and culture. Zong wars are common for territory, and other feuds over various matters are equally common, to the extent that duels, feuds, and vendettas are legal among us.
"While this Alliance is a greater matter, it would be preferable for us that other members not involve themselves in the Marriage Wars that cross our land, or the territorial Zong Wars, and we would pledge likewise not to enter into your own internal conflicts.
"In the sad event a civil war should erupt in any of our lands, the Alliance itself would be better served by keeping foreign elements out of such a conflict rather than interceding on behalf of a government who may not weather the conflict.
"By forging a powerful Alliance and maintaining nuetrality, I feel the eventual victor of such a conflict will be more kindly disposed to our Alliance rather than regard us as intervening agencies intent on holding a corrupt regime in place merely for it's own empowerment."
Sareau looked about the chamber. "Perhaps I did not make myself clear, and I apologise, but I did merely refer to matters internal to a member as opposed to internal to the entire Alliance."

The admiral whispered to the Duke, I suggest we let it go sire, if we dont have to fight their civil wars then so much the better for us, goddamn pinko nandie pandies.

The Duke nodded in agreement, though to himself he could see future troubles brewing out of this. However he had already decided that it wasn't something he would hang his hat on.

"I already have".

The President-General thought hard about a response as the delegates from Ordo Drakul spoke. When the time came, he added his thoughts. "Gentlemen, we've got a bit of a problem here. We have TWO topics going on simultaneously: the issue of civil wars within member countries and the issue of civil wars within the alliance. We must tackle them both one at a time. The former can be handled when we get to discussing mutual defense later in the conference. As for the latter, I've been thinking, and the if two or more member nations enter into war with each other, the rest of the member nations should attempt to mediate the conflict; if this unsuccessful, then, as I said earlier, the alliance as a whole should take no military action, but individual nations should be free to pick sides as they please."

The Duke pressed his button and simply said.

"Rechburg agrees."

The giant pressed his button and said, without standing,

"We agree. May we now move on to more pressing issues that are likely to arise?"

"The next issue on the agenda is the governance of the alliance," Fleet Admiral Emmerich said. He sipped at a glass of water.

"Would you care to elaborate, Admiral?"

"The question at hand is how will this alliance be handled administratively. Who does what? Who will be in charge? What organization will there be? And et cetera."

He pressed his button again.

"I assumed that an elected nation would chair while the rest of the members formed a council.

"That is a possibility," the President-General responded. "In fact, that's most likely how it will be. But there are other matters, too, such as how often said elected nation would represent and what their role would be, and how many representatives would be sent to the council. We must also discuss if there should be any other special positions."

"My suggestion is that every two years a new nation is elected to serve as chair of the alliance. There will be a bicameral legislature: a Security Council, consisting of the founding members, and a General Council. The Security Council would have the power to override any decisions made by the General Council. A very rough draft, I know. There's a lot of details to be worked out. Comments and suggestions, gentlemen?"

The Duke pressed the button, again.

"We find the concept as proposed by Rammsteinburg to be acceptable as far the administration is concerned."

Prime Minister Bach rose. "There should be both an administrative and operational command," he said.

Duke Blaise rose

"I believe the Operational Command should be an elected leader, similar to the administrative system. The command leader would chair a command council which would consist of 1 military officer from each founding member.
Non founding members would have an advisory role, but the ulitmate voting decision would rest with the military counceil."

The Tiuraboan speaker stood to speak again.

"I agree with my counterpart from Rechburg, but also suggest that member nations be allowed to join the Council if the Council so desires."

The door to the council chamber swung open and a young man entered, followed by two men, each wearing black suits with a white shirt and black tie. The young man, though, wore simple clothing. His long legs were sheathed in dark blue pants, lightly creased, and an off-white shirt. His flame red hair was slightly shaggy, but well kept.

As he approached the table of the other delegates, the Emperor of Blacknarae offered a low bow. "My most sincere apologies, sirs. I would have been here at the designated hour, but it is becoming exceedingly difficult to find reliable transportation these days." He shot a glare at one of his suited consorts. "I am Emperor Caim, Ruler of the Holy Empire of Blacknarae. And once again, I offer my humble apologies." Emperor Caim then took a seat at the table and his two men stood behind his chair, hands clasped together behind their backs.

((I'm really sorry everyone. School has been ridiculous lately.))

After Emperor Caim burst through the doors and made his announcement. Admiral Ney whispered to Duke Blaise

"This conference is getting to look more like a railway station every hour we sit here"

The giant from Tiurabo nodded to the younger and slighter man across from him.

"Greetings, Emperor. We were just discussing the administration of the Alliance, and we've come to the decision that we will have a council of founders and..."

He trailed off looked around for someone else to pick up where he left off. When no one did, he continued.

"...And a General Council of non-founding members. Currently, we are steaming out the wrinkles. The Rammsteinburgian PM and the rather rude gentlemen from Rechburg want to make the Administrative and Military Councils separate, and I can't say I disagree. I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter."

The Emperor leaned back in his chair, obviously pondering the question. "Hmm, that could provide a strong system of government, indeed. However, let us suppose that, purely hypothetically, of course, the Military council becomes corrupt and begins to take over the Alliance. If we chose to maintain this bicameral form of control--forgive the cliche--but there must be balances in place to prevent either council from gaining too much power. One alternative would be to have an open and combined governing group; say one military and one administrative leader forming the council. By having both groups together, they would be able to sort out disagreements without coming to blows, hopefully," he suggested. He gave a small laugh at the prospect.

Despite his age, Emperor Caim often displayed remarkable skill at political maneuvers, occasionally employing somewhat backhanded methods, but always getting the job done.

"Or, another possibility would be to have both arms of our alliance combined into one, so that each country only has one representative who would have authorization to make both civil and military decisions. I understand that this may not quite mesh with some of your preferred governing styles, but it has proven effective time and again throughout history." He suddenly stopped talking and peered around at the other dignitaries. "Well, I've spoken enough for a few go's around the table," he said, sounding a little embarrassed.

He turned around, reached his hand back, and one of the men in the suits handed him a pad of paper and a pen. To take notes on, of course.

Kerak listened patiently to the dignitaries as they pushed the button before speaking. It rather amused him, actually, since it reminded him of popular game shows on Vrakian television. As well, he couldn't believe some of his ears at some of the babble. Intervening in a civil war in a member state! He chuckled slightly, for he knew what happened to the last would-be invader of the Klatch. He scribbled a note to his aide who raised an eyebrow. He smiled and motioned for her to push the button.

After waiting for a pause, the red-dressed Julia pushed the button and then in a husky voice spoke.

“Honoured members. Please allow me to introduce ourselves. I am Julia Trampak, aide to the Chief Envoy Min-ho Kerak of Vrak,” she indicated with a wave, “We are honoured to be here. However, we do not know much of any of your lands, your culture, your languages, well, not much of any of you. For us, we proceed slowly on such matters not because we do not have the stomach to fight, but because we don’t idly sign our name to any alliance without knowing who we are throwing our strength with. It seems to us that some of you may already have previous alliances and relations which is what we expected. But before Vrak commits itself to a military alliance with anyone, our standard protocol is to first consider trade relations with said nations, before that step is taken. So, we are very interested in that and remain, at the moment, non-committal on military aspects of this alliance. Thus, we are willing to entertain the possibility of joining an economical pact.”

Kerak calmly looked at his notepad and was ready to take notes. Completely unnecessary, actually, since he was blessed with a photographic memory but still he found it comforting to do so.

President Paul Newman decided it was time to step in again.

"sirs, I believe we should have 3-5 permenent members in the council. They would have to have a permenent envoy to the Alliance, and be active all the time. They would also elect 4-5 additional nations to the council. Everyone else would join the Assembly, which would have power over the council, but would not make actual decisions.

this way we have an effective governing body, where the people do have a say.

However, having a seperate military and administrative council is a pointless idea. It means some nations will do less work, but then again, there will always be bickering. Instead, have them joined together, and if there is need for a military action, choose a advisory commitee from the general membership and council, according to who is best suited to the idea.

Regardless of what we do, Rammsteinburg should start as the first chair of the alliance, until we understand what is going on.

Prime Minister Bach pressed his button and leaning back in his chair he said, "Let me clarify the separate operational and administrative commands, gentlemen." He stood. "Let's look at the example of the military in many countries, including Rammsteinburg. You have a civilian Minister of War, Minister of the Navy, Minister of the Army, etc. -- and they all handle administrative matters, all the boring stuff that career military officers have little interest in. And then you have a separate commander for operational matters -- your Chiefs of Naval Operations and such. This is done for a reason, and it has worked for many years for many countries."

"The administrative part of the alliance--the councils and the president, or whatever we'll call the chair nation--would handle a lot of the business: trade, setting up conferences, enacting new policies, and whatnot. But what happens when we're running joint military exercises, or when we actually join forces in war? We need to have a unified command structure to keep us cooperating smoothly. And that's where the separate operational command comes in. Of course, they would be subordinate to the administrative faction. Do you all see my point?" He looked around the room, waiting for a response.

OOC: Think along the lines of NATO.

OOC: I figured out a way to make all of this a lot easier. There's many topics to discuss, making holding this conference in one thread highly impractical. So, I've created a forum for the GWA: http://z13.invisionfree.com/NationStates_GWA/index.php?act=idx

The Constitutional Convention section is found in the documents board. I will telegram everybody the password to access it. The topics will be up tonight.

Sareau considered each proposition before pressing his button. "Gentlemen, if I may-a Security Council would be a waste, as who knows what the next century may bring? Shall a nation of no value whatsoever retain a dignified spot because it's ancestors were wise enough to attend this gala?
"Shall a powerful nation be exempt because it's ancestors were napping flint and shaping pots as we meet here?
"We meet as warriors-as equals, and thus it should be. Each nation should send one representative, and these representatives should vote as to our leader, on the course suggested, but there is no need of a second, superior body. We wish to establish a Brotherhood of Warriors, not an Old Boys' Network-but one body is needed, with the fortunes of War dictating whom is paramount-to embody a Security Council is the second route.
"Let us have two bodies-the Council, one per nation, who elects it's ruler as we decide, and a Council Militant, who direct our affairs as directed by the first-strict limits on the authority of the Council Militant to ensure it only commands our troops as directed by the Council, and it's Select Councilman.
"I should suggest we each allot 10% of our militaries to the Alliance, with adequate officers, and engage in military games that we may know each other better thereby, and strictly limit the powers of this militia that it is subordinate to the Council, whose leader shall direct the Council Militant's actions, subject to a good faith vote set after any ordered activity-perhaps an initial 30 day approval, with six months' periodic approval thereafter?"

Dr. Kohlberg was furiously taking notes as Sareau talked. He thought the delegate from Ordo Drakul made some good points, though he still had some objections. When Sareau was done he rose with a question directed at the man. "Excuse me, but you said 10% of our militaries. Can you elaborate? Would each nation be required to send a certain amount of personnel and equipment from each branch of their military, or could one say, send mostly individuals from their army and provide little in the way of naval support?"

OCC - The new forum on Invision is a great idea... well done that burger

IC
The Duke rose to speak "The size of our contributions needs to be addressed once we have confirmed how our organisation is run, both from an administration point of view as well as the definitions of how they are to be used.

I am still very much in favour of two bodies (re NATO), a administrative or Grand (political/diplomatic) council that decides policies and actions and a military body that acts on instructions from the "Grand Council".
To my mind the military council only needs to be a skelton staff, each nation contributes by the way of commanders and liason officers as the internation situation warrants it.

Thus when the Grand Council wants to organise a exercise or to address a threat it has identified, the military council then assemble and act on the instructions from the "Grand Council". It should not be the role of the military council to decide policy, so until the "Grand Council" has decided on a policy or issue that may require a military imput, the military council should be a purely skeleton (admin) organisation.
We would be wary of maintaining a full military organisation that has little to do until needed, it is better to be organised in a manner that when it is needed all the assets required are known and if needed are then assembled."

The President-General contributed his thoughts. "The Duke is completely right. At the beginning of this conference, I said that I did not want this alliance to be a burreaucracy-choked joke that gets nothing done, and by having a full military organization always in place would be a step towards that."

OOC: Topics are up on the convention board.

OOC: Did I forget to send anybody the password?

OCC
if you sent mine it hasnt arrived yet, but then the blasted messenger pigeon probably got eaten by some natives between us.

ooc: no password here but perhaps it got lost in the ether.

OCC
if you sent mine it hasnt arrived yet, but then the blasted messenger pigeon probably got eaten by some natives between us.

I am certain I telegramed it to you.

ooc: no password here but perhaps it got lost in the ether.

Just sent it. Check your telegrams.

ooc: Havn't gotten one here, yet, either. Are you sure that you sent them?

ic: Emperor Caim rises respectfully.

"I am in concurance with the delegates of both Rammsteinburg and Rechburg. A skeletal military must be ready to be called upon at all times. The body to issue that call should be a small group of military officials and the body that issues orders to that council should be a larger, more civilian based council. This would not only strengthen the might of our alliance, but reduce the time that subjects would be discussed in the council as the council is made up of a minimal number of representatives."

OCC just checked still not there, perhaps if you PM each person on the Invision threads. I have found that TG on NS sometimes take up to a day to arrive, it must be a server thingy.

No doubt we will all get flooded tomorrow or tonight.;)

The password is being distributed via private messaging on the alliance forum.

OOC: I'll just post this now until I get the password to post in the documents forum.

IC:

"That is a possibility," the President-General responded. "In fact, that's most likely how it will be. But there are other matters, too, such as how often said elected nation would represent and what their role would be, and how many representatives would be sent to the council. We must also discuss if there should be any other special positions."

"My suggestion is that every two years a new nation is elected to serve as chair of the alliance. There will be a bicameral legislature: a Security Council, consisting of the founding members, and a General Council. The Security Council would have the power to override any decisions made by the General Council. A very rough draft, I know. There's a lot of details to be worked out. Comments and suggestions, gentlemen?"

"It sounds perfectly well to me," said Gerwulf, "simple and overused in organizations, but effective."

Duke Blaise rose

"I believe the Operational Command should be an elected leader, similar to the administrative system. The command leader would chair a command council which would consist of 1 military officer from each founding member.
Non founding members would have an advisory role, but the ulitmate voting decision would rest with the military counceil."

"Agreed," Gerwulf said calmly.

President Paul Newman decided it was time to step in again.

"sirs, I believe we should have 3-5 permenent members in the council. They would have to have a permenent envoy to the Alliance, and be active all the time. They would also elect 4-5 additional nations to the council. Everyone else would join the Assembly, which would have power over the council, but would not make actual decisions.

this way we have an effective governing body, where the people do have a say.

However, having a seperate military and administrative council is a pointless idea. It means some nations will do less work, but then again, there will always be bickering. Instead, have them joined together, and if there is need for a military action, choose a advisory commitee from the general membership and council, according to who is best suited to the idea.

Regardless of what we do, Rammsteinburg should start as the first chair of the alliance, until we understand what is going on.

"I think any member nation that helps form this alliance should be a permanent member. It seems only fair and any member that joins after the alliance is officially formed should be, as you say, an assembly member. Well, that is what I think at least," Gerwulf had received orders to ensure Mu Cephei's place in the alliance and the chance of doing so with only five permanent members was low. Thus Gerwulf made sure his tone was proper, but strong to show how serious he was about his opinion on the subject matter.

Sareau considered each proposition before pressing his button. "Gentlemen, if I may-a Security Council would be a waste, as who knows what the next century may bring? Shall a nation of no value whatsoever retain a dignified spot because it's ancestors were wise enough to attend this gala?
"Shall a powerful nation be exempt because it's ancestors were napping flint and shaping pots as we meet here?
"We meet as warriors-as equals, and thus it should be. Each nation should send one representative, and these representatives should vote as to our leader, on the course suggested, but there is no need of a second, superior body. We wish to establish a Brotherhood of Warriors, not an Old Boys' Network-but one body is needed, with the fortunes of War dictating whom is paramount-to embody a Security Council is the second route.
"Let us have two bodies-the Council, one per nation, who elects it's ruler as we decide, and a Council Militant, who direct our affairs as directed by the first-strict limits on the authority of the Council Militant to ensure it only commands our troops as directed by the Council, and it's Select Councilman.
"I should suggest we each allot 10% of our militaries to the Alliance, with adequate officers, and engage in military games that we may know each other better thereby, and strictly limit the powers of this militia that it is subordinate to the Council, whose leader shall direct the Council Militant's actions, subject to a good faith vote set after any ordered activity-perhaps an initial 30 day approval, with six months' periodic approval thereafter?"

"I agree with you for the most part and would not mind if the alliance was govern as you say, but ten percent is outrageous," Gerwulf had allowed his tone to increase slightly with his last few words, "I apologize, but Mu Cephei refuses such a rule. While my Chancellor has informed me that he is willing to devote several units to this alliance's protection I have also been informed that the number of troops and the amount of money Mu Cephei gives this alliance will be determined by him and only by him," Gerwulf Guadalupe made sure to lower his tone now, "plus I believe we should save hat topic for later."

OCC - The new forum on Invision is a great idea... well done that burger

IC
The Duke rose to speak "The size of our contributions needs to be addressed once we have confirmed how our organisation is run, both from an administration point of view as well as the definitions of how they are to be used.

I am still very much in favour of two bodies (re NATO), a administrative or Grand (political/diplomatic) council that decides policies and actions and a military body that acts on instructions from the "Grand Council".
To my mind the military council only needs to be a skelton staff, each nation contributes by the way of commanders and liason officers as the internation situation warrants it.

Thus when the Grand Council wants to organise a exercise or to address a threat it has identified, the military council then assemble and act on the instructions from the "Grand Council". It should not be the role of the military council to decide policy, so until the "Grand Council" has decided on a policy or issue that may require a military imput, the military council should be a purely skeleton (admin) organisation.
We would be wary of maintaining a full military organisation that has little to do until needed, it is better to be organised in a manner that when it is needed all the assets required are known and if needed are then assembled."

"Agreed," said cooly, "also. How much say does our 'Grand Council' in our country's internal politics?"

ooc: Havn't gotten one here, yet, either. Are you sure that you sent them?

ic: Emperor Caim rises respectfully.

"I am in concurance with the delegates of both Rammsteinburg and Rechburg. A skeletal military must be ready to be called upon at all times. The body to issue that call should be a small group of military officials and the body that issues orders to that council should be a larger, more civilian based council. This would not only strengthen the might of our alliance, but reduce the time that subjects would be discussed in the council as the council is made up of a minimal number of representatives."

"I agree," said Gerwulf.

OOC: Mu Cephei, I sent you the PW.

OOC: I'm considering just switching back to using this thread for the conference. Unless people start responding on the alliance forum, I'll have to.

I agree as this may be the best option if we can get the members active again.

OOC: The only reason I switched to the invisionfree forum was so individual topics could be handled separately. Oh well.

OOC: Btw, good job with trying to recruit people, Barry. ;)

oCC

I think the other forum was better for dealing with issues, but people either lost the link or RL issues got in the way
so perhaps we can do both, the issues are placed there but we converse here.

OOC:

The other forum is good for polls at least.

The Vrakians were, in fact, inwardly amused at this talk of military structures and whatnot. 10% of the Vrakian military devoted to an alliance that just started up? Absurd! Kerak sighed since it appeared that Julia's words were either lost in the shuffle or just plain ignored. In either case, the Vrakians felt slighted since she was not even acknowledged by anyone. Julia raised an eyebrow at her boss as if to signal "Do you believe this?" while Kerak's forced grin indicated "I do. They are such pakrahs, aren't they?" In their native language, Kerak merely said,

-We'll wait to see what happens. So far, nothing really of substance.

His aide merely nodded while the bodyguard let out a snort of disapproval.

OOC: Okay, for now on all debating will take place in this thread; however, the Invisionfree forum will be used for all voting. If you have a proposal that you want voted on, put a poll up there -- there's no need to wait for me to do it for you. (Speaking of polls, there are currently several up that not all prospective members have voted on. Please check them out when you get the chance.)

Also, I've been thinking about the issues of limiting the alliance to one region, mutual defense, and permanent joint military units. Here is what I've concluded: It would be problematic limiting the alliance strictly to one region (it would make recruitment rather difficult and the current prospective members are spread across the globe). But if we don't get so exclusive, we have another matter of practicality to deal with. I've reasoned that the only logical solution is to have member nations establish permanent military installations in other member countries. The forces assigned to these foreign bases would remain loyal solely to their home nation until the outbreak of hostilities, when it becomes necessary to unify. This would add a great deal of realism to our alliance, and it would provide the alliance with a global presence and ability to respond quickly, both of which would make us be taken more seriously by the international community.

We could also have a very small joint task force on continuous forward deployment, but it's not essential.

OCC
Yes I agree a ready reaction force is very important, in my own country I have one with pre-position assets loaded in containers and shipping available.
I have designated units ready to move when ordered.
In my factbook it is designated as 1st Expeditionary Force.

I also agree with the regional thing, clearly we need to spread our wings

OOC:I'm afraid I cannot navigate the Invision site at all-even with the password, and registering, it would not let me in. Perhaps my browser is incapatible, or something-I'll look into it
IC:Dr. Kohlberg was furiously taking notes as Sareau talked. He thought the delegate from Ordo Drakul made some good points, though he still had some objections. When Sareau was done he rose with a question directed at the man. "Excuse me, but you said 10% of our militaries. Can you elaborate? Would each nation be required to send a certain amount of personnel and equipment from each branch of their military, or could one say, send mostly individuals from their army and provide little in the way of naval support?"
Sareau considered carefully as he spoke:"I would think a combination of personnel, equipment, and even food for our poorer members-an army moves on it's stomach, and in our nation, vice versa.
"There are many, many details in a combined military, support personnel, proper intelligence-one of our great warlords once said our troops won't even go to the bathroom without a diversion, and he wasn't far off.
"The exact number was off the top of my head, and subject to debate-perhaps personnel and equipment, support staff, etc., equal to 10% of your government waste would be a better starting point. Of course, each of us will want to showcase our militaries and their strong suits, so perhaps we put up the initial contribution as a cash sum, and permit our Council to 'go shopping', as it were.
"Communications from one land, naval forces from another, armaments from a third, officers supplied with troops until we've worked together adequately to mix and match, as we've definately different ways of conducting warfare. My people prefer to hit-and-run, targetting command staff and using terror tactics to demoralize the troops and cause them to break for the Grand Hunt, as we call it. Others prefer set-piece battles and excel at them.
"We should endeavor to provide the best of the best for this, to impress upon others our serousness as an Alliance."
OOC:I'll monitor this thread and TG someone with my vote if I can't solve this Invision thing-my apologies for the lateness of my post, but RL intrudes.

OOC:I'm afraid I cannot navigate the Invision site at all-even with the password, and registering, it would not let me in. Perhaps my browser is incapatible, or something-I'll look into it



OOC: The password is gone.

OOC:I got in on my old browser, so I weighed in on (I think) everything. If I missed something, let me know. I would draw attention to my response on "Wars between Nations", as my initial thoughts were amended somewhere else.

OOC: Okay, for now on all debating will take place in this thread; however, the Invisionfree forum will be used for all voting. If you have a proposal that you want voted on, put a poll up there -- there's no need to wait for me to do it for you. (Speaking of polls, there are currently several up that not all prospective members have voted on. Please check them out when you get the chance.)

Also, I've been thinking about the issues of limiting the alliance to one region, mutual defense, and permanent joint military units. Here is what I've concluded: It would be problematic limiting the alliance strictly to one region (it would make recruitment rather difficult and the current prospective members are spread across the globe). But if we don't get so exclusive, we have another matter of practicality to deal with. I've reasoned that the only logical solution is to have member nations establish permanent military installations in other member countries. The forces assigned to these foreign bases would remain loyal solely to their home nation until the outbreak of hostilities, when it becomes necessary to unify. This would add a great deal of realism to our alliance, and it would provide the alliance with a global presence and ability to respond quickly, both of which would make us be taken more seriously by the international community.

We could also have a very small joint task force on continuous forward deployment, but it's not essential.

OOC: While I agree we should take action as an alliance to better protect our members, the permeant military base thing should be a volunteer basis. While Mu Cephei would gladly offer military forces to protect its allies (I'm already creating a separate command/large military unit to protect for this sole purpose), it would never allow foreign troops on its own soil. The reason for this is because I RP as a fascist country and well, fascist are fascist. Foreign troops + Mu Cephei = War and No ands, ifs, or buts when it comes to this subject.

OOC: While I agree we should take action as an alliance to better protect our members, the permeant military base thing should be a volunteer basis. While Mu Cephei would gladly offer military forces to protect its allies (I'm already creating a separate command/large military unit to protect for this sole purpose), it would never allow foreign troops on its own soil. The reason for this is because I RP as a fascist country and well, fascist are fascist. Foreign troops + Mu Cephei = War and No ands, ifs, or buts when it comes to this subject.

OOC: Alright, this is acceptable.

If nations do not wish to allow foreign military installations, they should at least devote military forces to the protection of the alliance. It would not be right to not provide either.

OOC: Alright, this is acceptable.

If nations do not wish to allow foreign military installations, they should at least devote military forces to the protection of the alliance. It would not be right to not provide either.

OOC: Understood, in that case you check out the alliance forums. I have already IC'ly announce that Mu Cephei is rearranging its military to make it easier to deploy forces in the name of the alliance.

OOC: The same people using the alliance forum are the same people still posting here. We might as well stick predominantly to the forum, but posting here is still permissible.

All who are still interested in being part of this alliance should make a post on the alliance forum within the next few days if they have not already done so.

The forum for the Warlord of rammsteinburg Alliance is here

http://z13.invisionfree.com/NationStates_GWA/index.php?act=idx