NationStates Jolt Archive

Leaders and citizens of liberal nations throughout the world, this is your chance to make a difference. This is your chance to help make the world a freer place. This is your chance to unite! For too long the nations of this world have denied Liberalism a place of power in International politics. I believe that now is the time for change.
By uniting together as a solid alliance we may alter the world for the better. Our Union, the Union of Liberal Nations, will help promote and defend Liberalism and provide the usual protections granted by an alliance to all its members.
The Union of Liberal Nations (ULN) will:
• Support the ideals of democracy and liberalism.
• Give financial support to Liberal political parties across the world.
• Support and participate in actions which further the ideals of liberalism.
• Offer financial and, when required, military support to ULN members.
• Strive to be as democratic and efficient as possible.
• Object to, and condemn, the violation of the human rights of the citizens of any nation.
• Not spread it’s ideals through conquest or military assaults. But...
• Reserve the right to assist rebellions by Liberal nations when deemed suitable.

For the time being the ULN will have its offices in Parilisa’s capital, Prezdorf, though this may change at a later date. A more complete and concise constitution will be written and voted on by all member nations. There will be no managing committee, and all members are free to make proposals and ask for votes as they see fit.
Yours sincerely,
Nathaniel Klein

Member Nations
The Republic of Parilisa
The Democratic Republic of Sexytyme
The Federation of The Artic Republics
The Communist Commonwealth of The Shamoin Islands
The Liberal Democratic Republic of Wolfenhalle
The Federation of Patrachus
The Principality of Vaarshire
The Republic of Herasia
The Colonial Empire of The Royal Code
The Nod Parliametari Repubik of Uiri
The Republic of Latin Union LU
The War Machine of Borman Empire
The Commonwealth of Zoingo
The United Socialist States of Niraamaya
The Empire of Avarahn
The United Islands of the Fujisawan Territories
The Empire and Commonwealth of Questers
The Empire of Ascelonia

Total Members: 18

Very few people will join if you don't allow war.

I am allowing war, but to protect and defend alliance members. I don't want to make this a tool for power hungry people to go round conquering other nations. Military action for defense, and other suiable circumstanse. Perhaps I should reword the aims.

No I meant, you don't allow individual war. No pulling allies into AGRESSIVE war makes sense, my alliance does that too.

Is economic liberalism included? Or is this "liberalism" the despotic marxist kind?

To: Parilisa
From: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs

The Fascist Order sees that you are attempting to revive this pathetic Leftist alliance once again. The Federation politely recommends that you cease this silly act...

Hello, I am sorry but I am very new to Nation States. I am would love to join the ULN, just how?

Sexytyme: I'll add you to the list! ;)

Lexique: I'm classical liberal.

To: The Grand World Order Office of Foreign Affairs
From: The Republic of Parilisa
"Pathetic" and "silly"? How so? Please enlighten me.
N. Klein

We find ourselves opposing this alliance once again. We have found, from studies of history, that democracy and corruption often go hand-in-hand; that some of the worst examples of what humans can do to each other happen because of democratic processes. We believe democracy, like communism, to be a flawed ideology that human greed and pride destroy. That is why we are not a democracy.

Empress Catalia and Emperor Solidrin of the Empire of Forensatha, of the House of Cats

To:The Republic of Parilisa
From:The Federation of Patrachus
I would very much like to join your new Liberal alliance however i regret to inform you that by setting up of this alliance you risk coming into contention of the liberal league which you yourself are a member of to prevent this from happening i propose a merging of your ULN and the liberal league if you accept all members of the liberal league will become members of the ULN. do you accept?
Sincearly
Fedration of Patrachus

We find ourselves opposing this alliance once again. We have found, from studies of history, that democracy and corruption often go hand-in-hand; that some of the worst examples of what humans can do to each other happen because of democratic processes. We believe democracy, like communism, to be a flawed ideology that human greed and pride destroy. That is why we are not a democracy.

Empress Catalia and Emperor Solidrin of the Empire of Forensatha, of the House of Cats

The Rithic government would like to say we share some of these beliefs. We are a republic, which is a lot more stable then a democracy by having a very limited number of people vote, extenuating the people farthest from the government as possible. We do believe democracy, however, to be a stepping stone from communism to stability(Imperial or Republic).

To: Patrachus
From: The Republic of Parilisa
All members of the Liberal League are more than welcome to join the ULN, however I do not wish to merge the two Alliances at this time because of their difference in rule. Whereas the League has a council and a President I propose that, in the interest of democracy and equality, all member nations will be of equal influence. If possible I will review this application again in the future.
I must also add that if you truly belive that the ULN is a threat to the League then I will not think badly of you if you expell me. I hope that our Alliances may work closely together.
Sincerely,
N. Klein

--bump--

The Kiravian Empire, as per the Aritax Financiav Acta of 21197, cannot and will not permit our politicians (We are strictly nonpartisan) to accept donations from the ULN. Any politicians convicted of recieving foriegn donations shall be stripped of office and, in extreme cases, deported.

We are liberals, and committed ones at that! A liberal democracy is the highest and purest form of government- the only hope for humanity to advance. We humbly ask for the honour to join this great Union

To: The Federation of The Artic Republics
From: The Republic of Parilisa
It is a great pleasure to welcome you to the ULN, may our nations flourish in a liberal partnership!
N. Klein


To: The Kiravian Empire
From: The Republic of Parilisa
We are sorry to learn that Aritax Financiav Acta of 21197 prevents us from distributing money to your people. We will refrain from doing so in accordance with your law, which we respect and understand.
N. Klein

ULN forums will be up soon, joining will not be compulsory but is suggested. We need more members; can member nations please suggest the alliance to nations which may be interested?

OOC: Hmm, you might need some aid. I'll do it.

The Liberal Democratic Republic wishes to join this alliance to help it's members. We are one of the oldest liberal democracies in world and wish aid small nations in achieving their goals of stability and prosperity.

Signed,
Wolfgang J. Lichtenburg
Secretary of State
Liberal Democratic Republic of Wolfenhalle

I would like to join, but the alliance be there to help me in times of war?

P.S - Is it ok if I'm Liberal Socialist?

To: Liberal Democratic Republic of Wolfenhalle
From: The Republic of Parilisa

It is with honour that I welcome you to the ULN. Shall I list you as Wolfenhalle or Brydog?

OOC: Cheers, this is a new project and we could definitely do with some help from the big boys/girls!

N.Klein

To: The Shamoin Islands
From: The Republic of Parilisa

Yes, we will offer some defense in times of war. Liberal Socialism is fine. Welcome to the ULN.

N.Klein

wolfenhalle plz

Wolfenhalle it is!

Thanks. The nation's from the region of Corrosia has had their eye on me, could you please just offer some kind of resistance, say something like you will defend me from them and stuff?

We are happy, and proud, to commit ourselves to the defence of members of this alliance, in exchange for the same commitments from the other members. Our navy is a powerful one.

The Federation of Patrachus Ministry of Alliances
With the permission of the presiedent of the Federation of Patrachus
The Federation of Patrachus would like to submilt an application to join the union of liberal nations
Signed:John York Minister of Alliances
Endorsed:C. O Libriliach

To whom it may concern,

The Principality of Vaarshire would like to join the Union of Liberal Nations. As a new, and left-leaning, nation, we hope to forge alliances with other nations similar in ideology to us in order to succeed in the international scene. We also wish to offer all that we can to ensure the continuation of liberal governments in the world.

With Warmest Regards,
Princess Anne de Vaar
17th Elected Monarch of the Principality of Vaarshire, Light of the People, Soul of the Nation

The Principality of Vaarshire and The Federation of Patrachus are welcomed to the alliance. Long may we prosper.

NOTICE TO ALL ULN MEMBERS:
I am in the process of writing a constitution for the Union, whcih all members will be able to comment on and edit. It will then be put to vote to decide whether or not the majority of ULN members agree with it.

To: The Union of Liberal Nations.
From: Herasian Presidency Office.
Subject: ULN.

The Republic of Herasia deeply wisahes to join the Union of Liberal Nations so as to establish freedom all over the world.

Harold Roberts.

To: The Shamoin Islands
From: The Republic of Parilisa
We may be prepared to commit some troops to your war with Corrosia. However before we make this decision we would like to recieve information concerning the war. How and why did it begin? Who else is involved? etc.
When we have reviewed the situation we will be able to send troops. This is a routine check, and it is not because we do not trust you. We must be certain that this war is fair and for good reasons before we throw all our weight in.
Sincerly,
N. Klein

To: Herasian Presidency Office.
From: The Union of Liberal Nations.
Welcome to the ULN. May we prosper together.
N.Klein

To: The Shamoin Islands
From: The Republic of Parilisa
We may be prepared to commit some troops to your war with Corrosia. However before we make this decision we would like to recieve information concerning the war. How and why did it begin? Who else is involved? etc.
When we have reviewed the situation we will be able to send troops. This is a routine check, and it is not because we do not trust you. We must be certain that this war is fair and for good reasons before we throw all our weight in.
Sincerly,
N. Klein

To: The Republic of Parilisa
From: The Shamoin Islands
It started long ago when the members of Corrosia were in my region, Interimo, and then they moved to New Caribbean. They betrayed an oath and also wrought out bad feelings towards me. I just couldn't take it anymore, so I declared war. No my nation lies in ruin, it population decreased by more than 63%. I do not want revenge, only some outspoken action against saying that the ULN will defend me if they attack. Please notify me of your response. If you do decide to take diplomatic action, do it with Dectubech, leader of Corrosia.

-Aleksandr Vasilii
-Riechsfurher

To: The Republic of Parilisa
From: The Shamoin Islands

Dear Mr Vasilii,
You already have an agreement from The Artic Republics, and I will also hel defend you. I must make it absolutely clear, however, that Parilisa will act deffensively and not offensively. We will not become involved in this war, we will simply act to defend the territories of our allies.
I also wish to make another point to you. I have recently discovered that during your war with Corrosia you have ordered all men in your nation over the age of 10 to join the army. This is completely disgusting, and it must stop. Sending children into battle is not something which Parilisa agrees with. We understand that this may be a necesary logistical action to help reinforce your military but this is an action which surely violates the basic and principle human rights of your citizens. It must end.
Sincerly,
N. Klein

The Colonial Empire of The Royal Code would like to extend her wishes to join the ULN. As a more seasoned nation with a highly refined military, the CERC would be an active military and economic asset to the alliance.

We humbly await the official party's response.

To: The Colonial Empire of The Royal Code
From: The Union of Liberal Nations
Welcome to the alliance. May we prosper together.


---------------------------------------

NOTICE TO ALL ULN MEMBERS:
If you have any problems with who I'm accepting or have accepted into the Alliance let me know either here or by telegram. I want to be as democratic as possible so you all get a say. I'll continue to accept or decline simply for reasons of efficiancy, but remember to speak out if you object to something or want something brought to vote.

The draft ULN constitution is now up in another thread.

Uiri shall join this most excellent alliance of nations banding together to promote the liberation of all.

It is an honour to accept Uiri to our alliance.
N. Klein

We agree with Parilisa on the Corrosian War issue. The use of child soldiers is fundamentally wrong and not in keeping with this alliance's ideals. Nevertheless we are prepared to station a carrier group to protect your trade routes and to provide a secure route for international humanitarian aid. This includes the Carriers AFS Albatross and AFS Svalbard, four cruisers and twelve destroyers.

(OOC: This war, is there somewhere I can go to find out more about it?)

Would you rather send your soldiers to kill these children? In war it is kill or be killed and while Uiri agrees that such action is wrong, we do not see any way to remedy the situation.

I see that that children PROPERLY trained in war are no problem. Fighting for Liberalism is a great honor you know.

These are children we're talking about! What sort of monsters are you, who would send a child to be killed hundreds of miles from home?

We would not. It is only that given the fact that they are trained soldiers, we would have to kill them if we intervened or our soldiers would be killed by these children.

I'll join

Shamoin Islands, not only do I completely disagree with your choice of military personnel, but you are in blatant violation of World Assembly Resolution #4. This is disgraceful, especialy as you are a WA Delegate.

Latin Union LU, you're in. Welcome to the ULN!

Wow.

I never noticed part B section 7 of that resolution. I was a WA member for a while after that thing was passed and I never realized that my corporations were breaking that resolution all the time.

Anyhow, off-topic; in II it is generally taken that the WA doesn't exist.

back on-topic; I thought that it was someone else who was employing the children soldiers. My mistake. We should stop nations within our ranks from using children soldiers; even if they are superior to adult soldiers in every way if trained properly.

Well there I agree with you.
But back to the original point- is there somewhere that I can find out more about this war?

Uiri I agree, maybe you could write up something and post it in the constitution thread? That would be good!

Wait - outlaw child labour? Child labour is what makes my country bustle. Half of all Uir children over the age of twelve work.

To: All nations concerned.
From: The Shamoin Islands

We have stopped using children as soldiers. Please be advised that this has GREATLY reduced our armed forces. PLEASE BE ADVISED.

We would be interested in joining this alliance

To: The Shamoin Islands
From: The Republic of Parilisa
We congratulate you upom removing child soldiers from your military, and we are able to give you defence from invasion in the future.

To: Broman Empire
From: The Republic of Parilisa
Welcome to the ULN

To: Parilisa
From: The Old Fozcrian State of the Shamoin Islands

We do consider males over 16 men. They will be conscripted randomly for NOW to cope with the armed forces loss.

Sounds reasonable to me. People over 16 years of age are commonly allowed to work in most 'Western' nations.

It also sounds very reasonable to me.

To: Broman Empire
From: The Republic of Parilisa
Welcome to the ULN

Thank you. Are there any areas of problems or forums for us to come together?

Feel free to comment on the draft constitution, a link for which is included below. That's about all we've got going on at the moment, unles there's a paticualr issue you'd like to bring up?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=568825

No, just wondering

The Commonwealth of Zoingo says "Finally! An alliance that supports freedom throughout the world without engaging in active military agression.."

We would be honored to join such alliance, especially to establish better relations with Uiri, a fellow Kirav ally.

To: The Commonwealth of Zoingo
From: The Republic of Parilisa

We are honoured to be able to accept you. Feel free to comment on or add to our draft constitution!

Of course...

To: All Nations Concerned
From: The Shamoin Islands

We greatly condemn the acceptance of Zoingo. For ages, they have raised anti-Shamoin feelings in many regions and nations. We are threatening to leave and raise an anti-alliance to challenge you.

Shamoin, if it is a war you want, it is a war you shall get.

We support the acceptance of Zoingo.

Uiri, deign for war, and war you shall get.

We, too, do not support the acceptance of Zoingo. We shall stand with The Shamoin Islands.

We were merely stating that we shall not accept an anti-alliance to challenge us. We do not wish war upon anyone however we shall not be bulldozed by any nation - no matter what shape or size.

To: Parilisa
From: The Northern Baltic

As the founder of the United Workers Republic, we would like to propose to you something that would interest both of our parties: integration. Our alliances, both being liberal democratic ones, serve similar, if not identical functions. Therefore, we would like to propose to you this idea of integration of our two alliances to strengthen the Democratic Leftist bloc. The stronger we are and the more united we are, the better chance we have of survival.

To: All Nations Concerned
From: The Shamoin Islands

We greatly condemn the acceptance of Zoingo. For ages, they have raised anti-Shamoin feelings in many regions and nations. We are threatening to leave and raise an anti-alliance to challenge you.

To: The Union Of Liberal Nations

We advise fellow nations to take this light besmirch on Zoingo's honor and brush it off. The Shamoin Islands does not have much stomach for us just because we had spoken the truth on how they pushed to "annialite Corrosia off of the map". We did not like these statements as they threatned International Stablility, so we decided to make them public. And be advised that The Shamoin Islands is in the alliance known as "Dictators for Tomorrow". Link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=567871&page=2)

To: Parilisa
From: The Northern Baltic

As the founder of the United Workers Republic, we would like to propose to you something that would interest both of our parties: integration. Our alliances, both being liberal democratic ones, serve similar, if not identical functions. Therefore, we would like to propose to you this idea of integration of our two alliances to strengthen the Democratic Leftist bloc. The stronger we are and the more united we are, the better chance we have of survival.

OOC: This is a classical liberal alliance. None of this socialism nonesense. Atleast thats what I thought. :/

To: Zongio & The Shamoin Islands
From: Patrachus
I beg you not to bring the personal rivalry between your two nations into this alliance. For I do not bielieve the UNL will survive it if you do.
I am not asking or calling on you to somehow resolve your differences I do not know enough on your conflict to do so however i do call on you to at the very least provide enough room for each other to operate within this alliance.
If the U.S.S.R and America could manage to operate within the United Nations at the height of the cold war then surely you can within the UNL

ooc: Nice analogy, but it is not exactly like that

To: Patrachus

We do not wish to see this alliance to tear apart at the seams, but this was an unprovoked rejection by The Shamoin Islands aboiut our admission into the ULN. We will happily work together in this alliance if they do the same.

The United (OOC: Is this a region or something? If so, I can't join, because I'm already in one.) Socialist States of Niraamaya wishes to join this union. We have always stood for liberalism and democracy.

Greetings and best wishes.

The Empire of Avarahn would like to join this alliance. We hope that we will be dully accepted.

We stand for liberalism in all issues except that we advocate moderation in economic and fiscal policies but we are historically a very liberal nation otherwise.

We would dearly love to join this alliance for the better of all our nations.

Thank you.


Sincerely and with kind regards,

Dame Judy Patricia Heike-Hasekura ( HME, IIO, Order of the Yellow Flower ),
Director,
Imperial Office for Liberal Causes,
Ministry for Domestic Affairs,
The Government of Avarahn,
The Empire of Avarahn.

The United (OOC: Is this a region or something? If so, I can't join, because I'm already in one.) Socialist States of Niraamaya wishes to join this union. We have always stood for liberalism and democracy.

no its not a region

Are we going to ignore the sentiments of The Shamoin Islands?

Most of the persons in the ULN are here to imply....yes, and that we will have a peacefull arrangement of this so it doesn't erupt into a violent standoff.

See what I mean? Zoingo is already taking authority he DOESN'T have!

So, can I just get a full classification? Is this a Classical Liberal or a New Liberal alliance? If its the former then I will sign right up.

Its classical liberal.

Atleast that's what I thought before Parilisa openly supported a New Liberal political party in the elections of a legislature of a close ally of mine...

It's Classic Liberal. Shall I count you in?

Uiri-I hope my actions in the election have nt affected you, but I acted as I believed was right. That does not change my support of Classic Liberalism.

The United Socialist States of Niraamaya and The Empire of Avarahn are both accepted. Welcome to the ULN.

It seems we have reached a most regrettable point. The rivalry between Zoingo and the Shamoin Islands threatens to tear us apart. Zoingo has expressed a readiness to cooperate as part of the alliance, is the Shamoin Islands willing to do the same?

The United Islands of the Fujisawan Territories formally requests to join the Union of Liberal Nations.

It's Classic Liberal. Shall I count you in?

Uiri-I hope my actions in the election have nt affected you, but I acted as I believed was right. That does not change my support of Classic Liberalism.

The United Socialist States of Niraamaya and The Empire of Avarahn are both accepted. Welcome to the ULN.

It seems we have reached a most regrettable point. The rivalry between Zoingo and the Shamoin Islands threatens to tear us apart. Zoingo has expressed a readiness to cooperate as part of the alliance, is the Shamoin Islands willing to do the same?

Then yes, you can count me in.

But why would you accept a 'United Socialist States' to a Classical Liberal alliance? The direct opposite of Classical Liberalism is Socialism...

Parilisa - 'tis alright. Mostly IC blabber, however next time read before you act ;)

Fujisawan - I'm not sure. Don't mistake this for an alliance of leftists.

EDIT: Questers is right. There is an easy way to test for Social Democrat impoisters:

Social welfare y/n?

n

this

The United Islands of the Fujisawan Territories and The Empire and Commonwealth of Questers seem OK to me. Uiri has a good point Fujisawan, we're liberal but not necesarily all leftist.

What do you mean all leftist? This is a Classical Liberal alliance. Classical Liberalism is on the right-wing on the political spectrum if I am not mistaken. In which case we are a right-wing alliance, devoted to combating, locking up and if possible re-habilitating those afflicted with EHAWED (Everyone-Has-A-Work-Ethic Disorder; essentially Communism for that is the only way it can work).

I thought Liberalism was considered to be in the middle. It's neither Communist nor Fascist, but seeing as it promote individual freedoms I suppose it leans more to the left.

The Empire of Ascelonia formally requests membership in an honorable organization such as yours.

OOC: Libertarianism is in line with the right. Liberalism is in line with the left.

We are honoured to be able to accept you.

OOC: :S

Fascism =/= any wing
Communism =left-wing

ergo:

Individual freedom = right-wing

In any case:

Economic liberalism (economic component of classical liberalism) = right-wing

So as far as I can tell the movement is right-wing.

Ascelonia: Liberalism is has been stolen by a bunch of red-flag waving quasi-communists. It is right-wing, especially considering it advocates individual freedom and limited government, along with free markets. The first two are neither and the third is right. No left whatsoever.
IC:

Uiri wishes to inquire as to whether or not Ascelonia's current government give social welfare to its citizens who are poor and unwilling to work.

I would have thought that the first two were leftist. The entire right/left idea is insufficient anyway, it's far too 2D.

OOC: Ohhh well... it doesn't matter to me.

IC:
"Does my government aid my government? That's a strange question," pondered The Emperor.

The first two of which?

Whoops, sorry Ascelonia. I'll edit promptly.

Individual freedom and Limited Government.

By the way, I object to the question you are asking would be members. I do provide Social Welfare to my citizens, but I don't think that makes me any more liberal.

Well, how much of it do you give to your citizens? And why give it to your citizens? Can't they work for their money? Or is your unemployment rate too high?

Individual freedom and limited government. The two opposites of Communism. Clearly not leftist. But at the same time, Fascism advocates totalitarianism, so both are also he opposite of Fascism. So, they are niether left, nor right, merely the opposite of collectivism or rather socialism/communism and fascism. A two dimensional scale should have left/right economically and individualism/collectivism in which case Classical Liberalism would be individual right. Fascism collective right. Communism collective left. And I am not sure what would be individual left.

No, my unemployment rate isn't to high. I give money to those who physicly can't work, the disabled and the elderly for example. I also put money into a National Helath Service.
Unemployment is not an issue in Parilisa because there are always jobs in the military or in Parilisa's industries and these are compulsory for anybody who claims unemployment benefits for too long.

"I have no form of Social Welfare. All money spent is either given back to industry or used to improve transportation of workers to work. My unemployment rate is nearly 0% due to the Technocratic system, though there are a few lazy bastards who chose not to work at all. It's there choice and it us up to their families and friends as to whether or not to support them. The government cannot endorse laziness," The Emperor responded as frankly as possible.

...
So, the ULN is a left-wing alliance, which claims to be a right wing alliance that...battles communism?

No, I certainly don't "battle communism". And for the record, I consider myself left-wing. The confusion has arisen from disagreement as to which wing of the political spectrum liberlaism should be considered a part of.

Borman, you have it wrong.

ULN is a classical liberal alliance that battles collectivism (communism & fascism) and totalitarianism (communism, fascism and others).

left

"I have no form of Social Welfare. All money spent is either given back to industry or used to improve transportation of workers to work. My unemployment rate is nearly 0% due to the Technocratic system, though there are a few lazy bastards who chose not to work at all. It's there choice and it us up to their families and friends as to whether or not to support them. The government cannot endorse laziness," The Emperor responded as frankly as possible.

Wonderful.

No, my unemployment rate isn't to high. I give money to those who physicly can't work, the disabled and the elderly for example. I also put money into a National Helath Service.
Unemployment is not an issue in Parilisa because there are always jobs in the military or in Parilisa's industries and these are compulsory for anybody who claims unemployment benefits for too long.

Sounds good, except people save for their own retirement in my country and I don't create false emplyoment.

Borman - what do you mean?

Borman - what do you mean?

Haha, sorry. You got your answer in there before I did.

Ah, ok.

...
So, the ULN is a left-wing alliance, which claims to be a right wing alliance that...battles communism?

Okay that leaves me terribly confused....

*Ahem*. We are a communist state. Therefore, Problem is detected.

Well, it seems we battle both collectivism and totalitarianism. So yes, we do have a problem...

Borman, you have it wrong.

ULN is a classical liberal alliance that battles collectivism (communism & fascism) and totalitarianism (communism, fascism and others).
So this IS Classical Liberal, not Liberal, yes? As in Austrian free market and freedom in civil issues, not leftist liberal in which leans (or is, depending on how far left you go) towards socialism or communism?

ViZion is right.

I had thought that Liberal ideals was the belif in the gradual reform of social economic and individual law and the belif that every person and nation has the right to self determination so if I am right surely left and right is to narrow a spectrum to define a liberal nation by and for the record i also consider myself on the left

OOC: Patrachus, there is a VERY distinct different between Liberal as we know it today and Classical Liberal, similar to old-time Conservatism, which is what the founding fathers based America upon - limited gov't size and power, limited gov't encroachment in both the civil side of life and the economic side of life, and limited spending, thus limited taxation. Think of it as the opposite of a moderate belief (encroachment in both areas, just to a lesser extreme then the further right - civilly - or further left - economically)

Just to clear it up. :) If this is a Classical Liberal alliance, I'm definitely considering joining...

Austrian Economics = supreme economic school

Liberalism is about free trade, free markets, and free societies. That is what it was built on during the 19th Century and modern liberalism is simply socialism with a nicer name.

Questers puts it quite nicely.

Viz, yes, this is a classical liberal alliance.

Patrachus, you are thinking of socialism. I'm pretty sure.

So, we're good in terms of econimcs. How about otherwise? Do we take anything else from modern liberals?

Perhaps the founder should weigh in?

Borman Empire: The thing which is the same between modern liberals and classical liberals is the belief in every man's freedom. The difference is economic policy. Because we have cleared up economic policy, I think there can be no further confusion.

Hold on, I'm Liberal as in centre left- you know, not socialist but still more left wing than centrist parties and opposed to the conservatives. I don't want to be part of a conservative alliance. Not to say that I want to exclude conservatives from an alliance concerned with upholding civil rights, political freedoms and furthering the spread, if not of democracy, then at least of governments that guarantee the above three principles. That should mean that socialist (not communist) countries should be easily accepted as members. We should be above dictating a countries internal ruling policies provided they do not conflict with our basic mission statement (i.e. the constitution).
Just to note I am left wing and I was one of the first to join. (and I was left wing then as well) By the way sorry for my silence recently I've been having internet difficulties.

Borman Empire: The thing which is the same between modern liberals and classical liberals is the belief in every man's freedom. The difference is economic policy. Because we have cleared up economic policy, I think there can be no further confusion.
OOC: well, there is another difference. Modern liberal: Big government, interventionism, socialized welfare programs, etc. Classical liberal is the opposite in those areas, too. ;)

Our beliefs are summed up pretty well in the draft resolution, which is worth checking out by all members of the ULN. I don't think there's much of a problem with accepting both Modern and Classical Liberals into the ULN, as we share some similair ideals. It's been pointed out that there are vast differences in economic opinion, but I'm not much of an economist so I'm not that well informed concerning that.

As far as I'm concerned, one of the most influential factors in my desire to found this Alliance was the protection and advancment of Civil Rights, which are abused far to often nowadays. Limited Government, Open Mindedness and Personal and Economic Freedom are, to me, the greatest ideals any politcal thought scheme has come up with.

Just my pennys worth.

OOC: Ah, certainly good to hear

Whoa - hold up.

What about child labour? I have children as young as 12 employed in heavy manufacturing. Is this ok with the other members of the alliance?

to paralisia
how about a resloutions thread

Sounds like a fantastic idea, but I'm not sure all the alliances members would be happy to have their government instructed by foreign powers in any way. What does everyone else think?

How about 'advised' initially and if resolutions are passed- by a suitable majority of course- then, well, nobody's forcing them to stay. That's what being an alliance is all about. Setting and adhering to common standards and working together to promote and protect them.

Just to note I'd say a suitable majority would be 50%+1 but we could negotiate that until we have a consensus.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Any opinions from elsewhere?

I don't think we should have resolutions; if we really do promote freedom then we should respect eachother's sovereignity. Although, by dictating rights we are already violating eachother's sovereignity...

That's a good point. It could be argued that resolutions could actualy promote freedom though, by gauranteing the rights of all citizens of member nations.

We are all sovereign entities, yes?

Sovereign entities may do whatever they please within the territory over which they are sovereign.

Unless we protect our sovereignity first, we can never be truly free.

I second Uiri in this, he is completely right.