NationStates Jolt Archive

This is the OOC Thread for the "Koryash'ta ryazik'kya'sah ryah'kya'za..." Thread. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=565625&page=4)

Please keep all comments out of the IC Thread and use this one instead.

Yay, now we have an OOC thread for me to ignore while I spam up the topic with OOC comments. XD


TFP, question: Is this standard Greek goddess Eris?

The Solarian primary religions are those composed by the Trinity of Eris, Flying Spaghetti Monster and Invisible Pink Unicorn. Therefore any other Eris is an Impostor.

Also, neither of them can be killed, because neither of them exists :D

the Trinity of Eris, Flying Spaghetti Monster and Invisible Pink Unicorn.

You, sir, win the internet.

The Solarian primary religions are those composed by the Trinity of Eris, Flying Spaghetti Monster and Invisible Pink Unicorn. Therefore any other Eris is an Impostor.

Please, please send me some missionaries or something! Those would go so well with the Cult of the Mods and the Church of the Actual Dog...

Questions to answers:

Is this Eris? Although I did take some inspiration from both the Greek myth version and the Discordian version, no. This is a personification of the "strife" concept like Heraclitus seemed to think of it (little is left of his works...). Putting it in a very short way, I put a face on one of the principles that define the multiverse.


Nothing on NS is invulnerable. The way you are playing your "goddess" is against the accepted guidelines of NS.


Although this type of character could be against a literal interpretation of the rules, it's not against the intention.

It is far easier to do something that removes the goddess from the story than it is to do the same to a Darkship or Minagoroshi. Kill the priest-diplomat, threaten everyone else present to force them to ignore her, done. That's not exactly invulnerable.

Furthermore, the only way she can do damage is by talking others into doing it for her (or getting permission to take over their body, which then is still as mortal as before). Compare this to what a Darkship or Minagoroshi can do.

So, given the things the Mekantans have, which are both insanely powerful and in practice impossible to destroy, I have difficulty understanding why you have a problem with this goddess character.

In other words, STFU.

Aw, it's like a little Chaos. *pokes* Not as fun as mine, but I imagine it'll have some promise once it learns its place.

Also you'd note that Mek has been here alot longer than you, building up his stuff, defining his concept, generally providing us with awesome RP. (I live in awe of his abilities and in fear of his probing tentacles)

You on the other hand seem to be just pulling this from nowhere so as to make yourself look more powerful than you are. And come on, only up to manipulate and possess? What are you, The First Evil?

At least my Gods have blessings and daemonic servants ^^

So it's okay to throw accusations of godmodding against newer members who are trying to put something interesting into the game, but it's not okay for those same newer members to explain how their accused character is actually much weaker than some of the things other players in the same thread have, making it unreasonable to complain about the one but not the other?

Just because I'm new(ish) to the forum doesn't mean I don't know how to design characters and how to play in a fair way.

And if you think this goddess is supposed to make me look powerful, maybe you should ask yourself why I didn't bring in ten equivalents of darkships or something.

Well, no. Because he's not godmodding, he's just of a far higher technological band. The problem lies in your "Oh you can't destroy her or the universe will become inert" fallacy. You don't speak for the entire universe, Mek certainly isn't trying to. You, on the other hand, are dictating the fate of the entire NSverse based upon your concept of a character, which is patently ridiculous in what is supposed to be cooperative, and yes open, roleplay.

Compromises have to be made, there are no be alls and end alls. Nothing is infinite, nothing is unstoppable. Which is one of the reasons why it's good to have my gods be canonly extradimensional, being fed by sentient emotions and desires ^^

The point is, that Meks set up isn't nearly as loaded as yours is. My opinion, of course, who knows who else shares or rejects it. Alas, I'm pretty much done. I just think you have to consider what you're positing, and to find a way to make it work, gradually. Not rushing in and throwing a goddess around, even an ineffectual one, on the material plane.

In other words, STFU.

And also, being rude to people who calmly point out a long term Rule/Guideline on NS that has been established for years is not a good way to prove a point. There is no reason for you to talk this way to anyone. We are not screaming at you or holding your first born at sword/gun point. We are trying to show you the problem you have made.

In claiming the death of your character would kill us, you are calling our damages. You can under no time call other player’s damages, much less the entire NS multiverse.

There was another player that once asked the others in the NS Draftroom if a Big Bang Bomb would be a godmod. He wanted to know if he blew up the universe would it be a Godmod. They said yes (after many laughs and several posts much more rude than anyone here have been to you) because he would be calling the deaths of other characters. Actually it would have been ALL the other characters on NS. Your explanation of why your character cannot die is on the same level as his was. It will destroy everything.

Please don't take this as us telling you how you have to play your characters. It is how NS itself is set up. We are only trying to pass the information on to you. If I am wrong, will one of the other players correct my statements?

We have not yelled or swore at you. You are the only one who has resorted to using crude language and I feel you should apologize for that. It is the only mature thing to do.

For more information on what Godmodding in NS is, please read this Thread written by one of the Mods. I located it for you in the stickies.

What Godmoding Is (New Version) - by Euroslavia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=367578)

A big difference between your goddess and my Darkship is that, despite how big and scary a Darkship is, it can be killed. It's actually quite easy. You just hit it hard enough, enough times, and it will die.

The difference between something's destruction being a question of sufficient force and "LA LA LA YOU CAN'T TOUCH ME" is a BIG one.



And the STFU was really unnecessary. Being a dick OOCly is bad form, mate...

Ah, I thought this was about me saying that "metaphysical jab" didn't do anything to the goddess, but it's still about what would be the result of destroying the goddess.

I did read the doc on godmodding before, let's consider the four types of it.

Type 1 - permanently destroying (in the sense that I can't reuse her in a new thread) the goddess would require making a disastrous change to the most basic laws of physics. This is of course impossible. The goddess is not a bomb that I could set off (I can't change the laws of physics) and not a boobytrap either (you can't change the laws of physics either). I do _not_ claim the ability to destroy the universe, all I'm saying is that someone who does claim they can destroy her is claiming that _they_ can destroy the universe.

Type 2 - I have a character bleeding from a knee that has been shot to bits, so obviously I'm not refusing to take any losses. Also, I explained in this OOC thread an easy process to get rid of the goddess, and talked about the same in the IC thread as well, so don't even think of saying I'm not accepting the loss of the goddess.
Yes, I can reintroduce her in another thread, but that's nothing new. One can do that with any character by claiming the new thread happened before the old one, adding a few wormholes and time loops if necessary.

Type 3 - nope, the goddess isn't able to do any damage, so she certainly isn't too powerful.

And finally type 4... we don't even have to discuss that one. No advantageous geography to be seen ;) .

As for me owing apologies to anyone, well sorry but all this whining about a character that I carefully designed not to give me any unfair advantage (or any advantage at all) is annoying and I really think that [expletive] [profanity] [rude word] [insult] :P .

I created her because the idea seemed interesting, not to gain any advantage. Actually, if you look at all my characters and species, you'll see that all of them have severe weaknesses. Trust me, I dislike those who seem to be playing for no other reason than to be "bigger" than others at least as much as you do, and I certainly won't do any of that myself.

So please, cut out the nonsense about me godmodding. I am not, and this whole debate smells of newbie hating.

Being a dick OOCly is bad form, mate...

I agree, but I'm not the one who is being a dick here. Shouting "OMG GODMODDING" at someone who tries something different (and takes care not to get any advantage at all from it) is what is dickery.

Sorry folks, I have nothing better to do, so I hope you don't mind me weighing in on this. Don't worry, nobody needs to get me up to speed, like a good forum junkie, I've ready up on the IC thread.

Anyway, back to your business, aka "does the goddess qualify as godmodding". The idea of a personified extra-planar law or concept, aka your goddess, is interesting, no doubts there. My friend Eric does that sort of thing all the time (theological exploration in a scientific setting by creating gods/goddesses that represent ideals/concepts/human behavior patterns) and you two would probably get along well. It makes for interesting interactions. However, she can't be killed in the conventional sense, and in addition she supposedly exists beyond the conventional NS universe, which in and of itself is somewhat dangerous territory.

Your goddess breaks one of the first rules of Nationstates RPing: she cannot be 'destroyed' in the conventional sense. The ability to be ethereal and exist beyond the physical universe, and thusly not be killed but still be able to affect the universe, even indirectly, is at it's core a level of godmodding, regardless of motives or good intentions. She may not be able to physically effect the physical universe by herself, but clearly she can effect it indirectly if not directly, and thusly that alone is destabilizing. If she couldn't be heard or seen or interact with the universe in any way, such power would be irrelevant and not godmodding, but she can talk to people and influence their actions yet still be totally untouchable, and there is a problem there.

In addition to this, there is the problem of absolutes which you have provided. You have clearly dictated the fate of the entire universe rests on the life of your goddess. If she dies, the universe simply stops. It pretty much means that you can use her to say under any circumstances ,"Yes, you're big, but I'm holding all the cards here, since if I slit my metaphorical wrists, you all go with me". No one in NS is allowed to control the fate of any player as a whole, let alone all of them. Nobody can "win". Your goddess will always "win" because she can never "lose". Not really. She can always try again and again, and if she can't, nobody else can. Nobody has a remote that ends the universe. At least, not one that's foolproof. The gist of the NS rules are simply "If you can dream it, you can make it; but if you make it, someone else can break it", no exceptions. Your goddess may be incorporeal, but someone else can kill her. And she may be able to make the universe inert through her death, but something else will set it in motion again immediately. That's just the way it works here.

For a book or a story where only one person is doing the writing, having "unkillable" gods may be fine and dandy, but here, where everyone contributes, everyone must be vulnerable somehow; everyone can die, because claiming immunity to death on any level in this game is tantamount to claiming your ideas and concepts have intellectual superiority over the other players, which is simply put, wrong. I'll put it the way I put it in another thread: "There's always a bigger fish. And if it's hungry, it can eat you, no questions asked." That's how it works.

I admire your ideas and your creativity, Priesthood, don't get me wrong. Your goddess can still exist, and she can still be incorporeal and have all those glorious abilities she has. You just have to remember that nothing is fool proof, nothing is truly invulnerable here. Not even gods, no matter how awesome you want them to be.

Anyway, my two cents. Sorry for sticking my nose in, I just thought this was an interesting discussion...

I'm repeating things here, but...

1) I cannot kill the goddess. From an IC perspective, it contradicts the intentions of the character and is impossible under the rules of my own physics and metaphysics. From a gameplay perspective, if I destroy everything, that leaves nothing for me to play with, which means I "lose" (as far as one can lose in roleplaying).

2) The goddess can easily be disabled in a way that for the rest of the thread is equivalent to death. This does not destroy the universe.

3) ANY type of character can be revived in a future thread, so in practice "being disabled for the rest of the thread" and "being killed" are equivalent. I don't get any advantage from a particular type of killing being impossible when another type is very possible.

Imagine I had introduced a lungfish character. I would say "You can't kill this by trying to drown it, neither can you kill it by removing it from the water. You can, however, kill it by beating it on the head."
Is that godmodding? Of course not.

Okay, now let's introduce the goddess again: "You can't kill this using physical methods, neither can you kill it using metaphysical methods. You can, however, kill it by telling everyone to ignore it and forcing them to obey you."
Is that godmodding? If yes, what is the difference with the lungfish? And if the difference is my explanation of why it can't be killed in some ways but can be in others, would revoking my explanation and keeping everything else the same make it stop being godmodding?

Very well put Second Alliance :)

I should also chip in with the fact that none of us are newbie hating, but you seem horribly aghast at the notion of taking our advice. I've not accused you of godmodding directly, I've simply tried to elucidate for you the flaws in your reasoning. That being that, should we kill her, the universe will go kaput.

Many here have problems with you speaking on behalf of the entire NSverse simply because you say so. Certainly it might be world ending for your people to lose her, but the rest of the universe will carry on regardless, no matter what happens. You're contradicting yourself, because you've created this notion of her to profoundly affect physics according to you.

We don't have to accept that your backstory requires roping her to the very laws of existence, and by the way if you kill her we all die, that just shows that you have an admirable sense of scale in solo fiction, or that your terribly attached and afraid of losing her in collaboration.

Again with the "you can't hurt it physically or metaphysically but only by killing us all". That's simply your word against...Well, logic.

That's one reason that the Chaos Gods remain delightfully distant, extradimensional and overarcingly metaplotty in their limited yet significant involvement with Chronosia. Mortal tools are the instrument by which they affect existence, gifting them with blessings and sending forth their own servants, Daemons, to alter and destroy, but never intruding themselves.

You'll never see a tendril of my gods in the Materium, but I'll do everything in my power to see the Warp destroy everything ^^

I like to think I've been quite concise and polite in my interactions, and that there genuinely are no hard feelings. We're trying to help you, help us, help us all. :)

Analogy time, because Mekanta is sleepy and Mekanta's brain works in strange ways when deprived of sleep. I'm probably going to look over this post when I wake up and smack myself, but meh.


Lets say, for a moment, that we have a small, incredibly annoying ship flitting around in a system where there's a fleet of big, powerful, easily annoyed warships. The little ship is told to knock it off or the big ships would open fire. The little ship replies by saying that it has a dimensional shield that creates a bubble seperating it from normal spacetime.

The big ships reply by saying that's nice. So did these other guys they met. They raped them and fed their spines to their cats, the shields did absolutely dick to save them.

But the little ship replies that these shields are special unbreakable shields, and that the only way to break them would be to say "Swiper no swiping!" thirty-six times with your thumb up your ass, which would cause the ship to be forced to warp away. Oh, and if the ship is destroyed, it'll set off a cascade reaction that will cause every other proton and electron to switch charges, making the universe a giant 1:1 matter-antimatter combination and destroy everything.



... Not sure how to fit in the "shut the fuck up" but meh.


That goddess, like everything else in the thread, is a thing on the field. The Darkship is a thing. The Moralites are things. Everything is just a thing in the RP.

The problem is, the goddess, as a thing has some very negative qualities, like a house with an eye searing, incredibly horrible paint job. While I'm sure it has very nice furniture, the thing is still an eye sore. It's also in violation of accepted neighborhood association guidelines, and when someone points this out, the owner of the house tells everyone to shut the fuck up.

... There we go, worked it in.


The problem with your lungfish analogy is that a hammer to the head is a form of direct attack. Taking it out of water or putting it in water? Indirect. Those don't really matter. Being able to smash it with a fuck-off big hammer is exactly what keeps it from being godmoding. You can kill it with violence.

Your weakness for your goddess is not equivalent to the hammer. It's closer to taking out of the water. It's not a direct attack, and in fact, you specifically mention that direct attack does not work. That's what renders it godmode. That's like saying, of the lungfish, "You can't shoot it, you can't hit it with a hammer, but you can sing it a lullaby and it will die."

I guess everyone keeps missing the point because I use too many words. The point is:
This character *can* be killed without much harm happening to anyone else.

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Before you continue reading, please read the previous paragraph again. Make sure you understand what it says. Let it sink in. Yes, you CAN kill her without the universe going kaboom.
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There are two things that people are having issues with...

The first - and IMHO this is ridiculous - is that she can't be killed using methods that we would call "killing" in everyday language.

The only thing she can do to other characters is talk. If everyone agrees to ignore her (by consensus or by force, I don't care), there is nothing left that she can do. A character that cannot do anything is, for all purposes, dead. As far as killing is meaningful in NS, this character can be killed.

The second thing is my explanation of why she can't be killed in other ways than the others ignoring her. I understand that it smells of godmodding, but it really isn't. If I had not mentioned the option of killing her by destroying the universe (which will kill pretty much anything) but had simply said "you can't kill her except by ignoring her", without further explanation, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

OK, we might have had a discussion like this:
you: "Your character doesn't make much sense."
me: "So what?"
you: "We want to be able to kill her in other ways."
me: "It's my character, I get to decide how it can be killed, and as long as it's not insanely difficult you have nothing to complain about."

But because I explained a little of the ideas behind the character, we suddenly have a problem.

And the silliest thing of all is that this is in a thread where by participating we all agreed to accept a type 3 godmod (Having übertech armies that are too large, etc.). If I can't try out my ideas that are near-but-not-really-godmodding in such a thread, then I don't know where...

And, because I expect I'll have to repeat it a few more times...

This character *can* be killed without much harm happening to anyone else.

Your weakness for your goddess is not equivalent to the hammer. It's closer to taking out of the water. It's not a direct attack, and in fact, you specifically mention that direct attack does not work. That's what renders it godmode. That's like saying, of the lungfish, "You can't shoot it, you can't hit it with a hammer, but you can sing it a lullaby and it will die."

By that reasoning, introducing a ghost into a thread where all other players do not have metaphysical capabilities of their own, and at the same time providing a piece of paper with a spell that will destroy it, is also godmodding.

The required method of attack being direct or not has nothing to do with something being godmodding. The difficulty of the required attack, however...

Also, do I really need to tell you that telling someone else what does and does not kill their characters is, in fact, godmodding?

A: "If I say 'boo' to you, you will die."
B: "No I won't, I'm not a type of creature that gets killed by the word 'boo'."
A: "That's what all the other guys I said 'boo' to also said, and they're dead."

The above is exactly what you're trying to do.

Mekanta, that was amazingly funny at parts. I think I pratically pooped myself on more then one occasion from belly laughter. And I'm thin as twig, so that's saying something if I "belly laugh". Chronosia, I also liked your post. Very eloquent, very informed. I agree with him that we're not newb bashing, cause I'm a bit of a newb here myself (though I have forum RPed for quite some time before this on other forums) and even I take issue with your character, even though I'm not even in the RP. Chron also makes a good point, and I think that point is what we're all trying to get at here.

Priesthood, your statement:

1) I cannot kill the goddess. From an IC perspective, it contradicts the intentions of the character and is impossible under the rules of my own physics and metaphysics. From a gameplay perspective, if I destroy everything, that leaves nothing for me to play with, which means I "lose" (as far as one can lose in roleplaying).
is flawed. OOC trumps IC. You made this character, and part of that reponsibility with creating that character is to keep it balanced, and the best way to do that is to not "call damages" or "call actions" as someone said earlier. If your character does this, then it's your obligation as the player to fix it. It's not much of a change, you just need admit that it is possible to kill her in a way that you didn't see coming. Hell, keep the universe freezing thing, just accept that it won't work for some reason or other (cue Invisible Pink Unicorn jump starting the universe).

Now I get to the point that Chronosia made that I think is particularly relevant:

We don't have to accept that your backstory requires roping her to the very laws of existence...

Point and case. Your character forces other players to say "this is exactly how this aspect of the universe works, regardless of our opinions or perspectives on the matter" because your character's backstory demands that her existence ending ends all of ours. Players won't accept that under any circumstances. Regardless of the intentions of your character, she forces other players to adhere to your specific view on how the universe works, when most of us FTers can agree on even the basics of the universe at all. Hell, for example, how many different types of FTL are there? A crazy number! Warp Travel, Slipstream Travel, N-space, Space Folding, Jumping, real-space tunneling, the list goes on, and really, FTL is something which is practically a corner stone of FT, and we can't even agree on what is the "right way" of space travel!

Remember when your creating characters/nations: don't overstep yourself. You can make anything you want effect to your nation in any way. But when you start dictating terms for the entire universe, you, as a player, have overstepped your bonderies and need to fix it, even if it means compromising yours or your character's personal agenda. It part of the burden of RPing with other people: you need to give them wiggle room. This isn't a solo game, nobody and nothing tangeble is perfect. If it exists in and has an effect on the NS verse, no matter how small the effect may be, it must be able to die in the conventional sense. Immortality: fine and dandy. God-like powers: par for the course. Total and complete immunity from everything in the universe ever to the point where your fluff overrides other player's fluff: no.

Now as far as the whole 'lungfish' thing, yeah, it's a tenious stretch at best. You see, the reason it fails as an analogy is because the solution of bludgeoning the thing to death is an easy one. In this thread, right now, just about every species present save yours and maybe the Breedex are war-nations, aka they solve their problems predominantly by blowing stuff up. Passive solutions would be tossed out in favor of aggressive solutions based simply on their racial identity and sensibilities. The idea of ignoring a foe or a problem to death is foreign to most people, since ignoring something and waiting is usually how bad stuff gets started.

Great, finally an argument that makes some sense. But I do have objections.

When roleplaying, you have to accept that the species and technologies of others exist, no matter how ridiculous they are. I could start a thread and randomly exclude other players by saying "sorry, in my universe you don't exist". I'm of course free to do that, but it would make me a first class asshat, so I don't. And so I accept crazy stuff like a dimension in which it is possible to create matter out of relatively little energy. (What's wrong with that? Well, create some uranium, put it in a reactor, and get more energy than you invested.)

So, not accepting the existence of this particular type of god makes one...

Furthermore, anyone is free to say the backstory is false, and the character is able to cover up its lies in a way that is not yet understood. That's what I do, although usually not explicitly.

Another thing that I want to draw some attention to (and I know, I already did that a bit) is that there is some blatant godmodding going on in this thread. There is ridiculously powerful technology, and some physical beings are claimed to have the ability to kill any god. Nobody minds that, and yet I get picked on over a subtlety that everyone is free to ignore and that isn't going to be a problem to anyone because the character is designed to be harmless. In the words of many people on the internet before me: WTF is this shit?

Therefore I am an asshat of higher grade (http://forums3.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13309496&highlight=relativistic)

And given enough time, Solarians can "kill" gods with rhetoric, period.

At one time, he debated another man into nonexistence by successfully convincing everyone present that the man did not exist.

So essentially you use the Warp to explain translation between your own simple universe rooted in true physics and the chaotic multiplex of the NSverse? Genius.

Seeing as i'm part of the actual RPG i may as well throw my opinion in, no matter how little people may value it at...

Point number 1: I like Mekanta's explanation on it. Made me laugh, puts things into perspective to.

Point number 2. I understand what Priesthood is saying in that the goddess can be removed from the game by unconventional means. And i do indeed applaud that, i love it when people diversify things. My Klikiss for example have a weakness to render them completely immobile if you know how. If you've read the books i've got them from you'll know but if not you can pick up clues from what i write.

Point number 3. I agree with what the others say however in that it is fundamentally wrong to say the goddess is unkillable; not "unremoveable" but unkillable, as in made finito, destroyed, dissociated tachyon particles ect. Everything is possible. And for all purposes and intents the universe may be infinite but everything can be made finite if you know how; if you built a large enough gravity projector you could probably bring the universe to a stand still...

In the end it depends on how you interpret eveything, in my case for example the Klikiss no about the universe, and have figured out where gods come from and how they work as far as they are concerned. This knowledge means that they could pull a god to pieces and switch them off at the source.

Now, let us imagine, for this argument, that my Klikiss decided to show off in front of Mekantas god by pulling yours to pieces. The Klikiss turn round, fire up their equiptment and happily explain, in full comprehensive detail what it is they are doing, then they do what it is they do and wait for it to work it's magic. Now, either you can role play your god unexpectedly falling apart or do something to escape. That i can understand, what i would filp out at however is when your god turns round, smiles, does nothing, spreads her arms wide and says "I'm invincible".

Everything has a breaking point. You can't dodge the question by saying that the god can be made to go away. In the end we might just want to smash her to bits and sweep her under the rug of history.

Since I'm not willing to make adjustments to the goddess character, and everyone else seems to disagree with that, I quit. So don't post anything that requires a response from me ;) .

Too bad, cause a conversation between an unchanged "Strife" and Minagoroshi would have been quite interesting.

I'll try my ideas in an own thread sometime.

A Utopian Soviet Union:

Simultaneous post! Nice timing.

If you can come up with a somewhat sensible explanation of how you would kill this type of god, then I would of course accept that. It is entirely different from saying "I can kill gods, period" without even having a good idea of what exactly this god is. I've been warning that she's not your everyday non-corporeal being, but these warnings against accidental godmodding just got me complaints about godmodding...

Now there's no need for that. The debate would have been wuite interesting. We are simply pointing out that when it comes to the point where we wish to exceed your gods breaking point it's only right for you to yield. We have not yet reached that point and hopefully will not, after all, i doubt anyone in the thread will actually try to destroy your god. This is simply a debate over the finer underlying points of our RPG.

Yeah, no need to throw in the towel quite yet. We're only trying to help, after all. There is a point where we can equally co-exist with you embodying the spirit of the idea while not being "so close to godmodding as for the distance to be moot."

Quite frankly you giving up at this juncture would simply rob us of fine debate, good RP and likely a great deal of mutual respect. Let's give it a chance, eh?

Well, once I've said I quit something, I should stick to that. I don't do dramaqueening (saying I quit, coming back, quitting again...). Sorry. See you in another thread.

Fun fact: I once got banned from a forum that had an anti-dramaqueen rule simply for starting a thread explaining why I would quit after answering any questions in said thread. It probably had something to do with the reason being me disagreeing with the behavior of the head moderator...
Fun fact 2: A short while later I became the mod of another forum.
Fun fact 3: A couple years later I quit that because I disagreed with what the forum owner wanted to do with it.
Fun fact 4: Maybe I'm a difficult person.

Someone only quits a debate if they've left the bath running or they cannot win.

Or won't compromise. It's not dramaqueening to come back, I think it's more you being overhasty. Let's all talk this through rationally, so no one loses out.

Please don't leave. This is not about forcing you out of the game. This is about the fact the rights of a player stops when it impeedes upon another players. That is all.

The comment about Mek destroying other gods is nothing made up, he has done so in past RPs so it is demonstrated by post history.

A simple solution is if she is destroyed, an alternate timeline is created where her destruction causes the collapse of the NSverse and one where nothing happened. We then can chose which our nation exists in.

Someone only quits a debate if they've left the bath running or they cannot win.

Turn off the bath water and come back.

Perhaps a convention...

"Thine Deities shall be unable to influence entities that do not believe in Thine Deities, barring express OOC permission for such influences to occur."

A deity's powers stem from his/her/its worshippers and should be limited in scope TO them. The moment you attempt to assert that a deity's doom means inherent and instantaneous doom for the universe as a whole is the moment you RP other people's stuff, which is a no no.

I would honestly say that the best way to go about it is not to say that your deity is an embodiment of strife and physics so much as a personification of how your nation views such concepts. If she is terminated by some randomized means, then the universe as your people know it would become inert, as the entity that defined the universe for these people has been removed. They would suddenly have to make their own way in the universe, though some might just take the easy route and kill themselves in grief. In the same vein, if every single one of her worshippers / your people were to be annihilated in a manner that prevented them from passing on even the slightest iota of belief to some other group... your deity would suddenly be without worshippers, and without the people that established the 'perspectives' that the deity embodies, the deity no longer has a basis for existence and would nice and painlessly fade away.

Or blow up in a hideous spattering of blood, guts, and for some unknowable reason, car insurance application forms.

That being said: Not even gods are invulnerable. They can be killed. The universe will not end if they are killed. They are the personification of a belief, and one can either kill the personification or the belief.

*unsubscribes*

In my opinion, I'm not RPing other people's stuff. There is a subtle but important difference between "if you kill this, the result will be the destruction of the universe" and "to kill this in the usual meaning of killing, you need to destroy the universe". The cause and effect are in different orders.

In the first case, the killing is a possible event (by default), and the destruction of the universe is a threat by me to godmod.

In the second, the destruction of the universe is godmodding done by someone else, and the death of the god is a logical result of it.

And no, I don't think I can win this argument. That doesn't mean I'm wrong, though.

See, remember how we mentioned compromise? The fact that you're unwilling to entertain such ideas is the reason why you are wrong. Stubborness and going so determinedly against the tide and logic, in a cooperative writing environ, are not ways to endear yourself to the community.

While I appreciate the relative novelty of your idea, I think that you're placing far too much emphasis on how "special" she is, and what it would inevitably take to destroy her. Remember, no one has to accept anyones concept if it's counter-intuitive to the whole of NS. You've moved from claiming that destroying her would inert the universe to the notion that what is required to kill her would inert the universe. Now the initial confusion could just have been you being unclear...

However, I think that you would benefit better from working with your peers to make yourself less "godmodding or being so close to it as to make the distance moot" and working instead to compromise with the community, to fit in (though by no means in term of theme, rather in general fair play and cooperation), and so to remain in a position where everyone wins. :)

That or you can sulk.

In the second, the destruction of the universe is godmodding done by someone else, and the death of the god is a logical result of it.

So you're trying to pin the blame on us for destroyingthe universe? That's like me saying that i'm going to merge my ship with every other alternate reality using my slipspace and worm hole capablities and say "Although i won't destroy the universe if you shoot me the whole fabric of reality will unravel."

Alternativly we could destroy the god just in the similar spirit of irrationality and use my Hive ships improbability inducing capabilities to bring about a scenario where the god goes bang but the universe doesn't end in accordance with universal improbability eighty thousand nine hundred and fifty six to the power of one against.

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There we are, every ones happy :p

In my opinion, I'm not RPing other people's stuff. There is a subtle but important difference between "if you kill this, the result will be the destruction of the universe" and "to kill this in the usual meaning of killing, you need to destroy the universe". The cause and effect are in different orders.

Yes you are. You leave the threat of it open as some sort of countermeasure to keep your character alive. The moment you start saying a bloody thing about "Universe Dying" in the same sentence as "Deity Dying", is the moment you start RPing other people's stuff. Whether its on a contingency basis or not is irrelevant. To introduce a supposed deity as an RP'd character is to introduce their own mortality. As far as I am aware, even Mekanta's Minagoroshi (sp?) can be terminated... but the difficulty in actually doing so is based around the forces she has at her disposal. It'd take a LOT of killins' to kill her. Incidentally, her death would not end the entire universe, nor will the death of your own deity.

In the first case, the killing is a possible event (by default), and the destruction of the universe is a threat by me to godmod.

In the second, the destruction of the universe is godmodding done by someone else, and the death of the god is a logical result of it.

In either case you would be godmodding. You are essentially saying that killing her would destroy the universe, or that it would TAKE destroying the universe to kill her. Both of these pathways are in the wrong.

And no, I don't think I can win this argument. That doesn't mean I'm wrong, though.

You are wrong. That doesn't mean you're losing.

Take it we all can't get along then? Ah well. His loss.

I can't help wondering....

What if your people have no concept of gods altogether? I mean, that in itself may actually negate the power of said god. After all, does not a god gain its power by you believe in it?

No believe = no power over you

This threads been dead for about a quater of a year now but oh well :L

I had an argument with someone covernig that point about RPG, the final result was two simple points.

1. If your race has a belief in a higher power whereby you invest or attribute to it any kind of power then you have therefore deemed that gods can exist, as such other players gods have the powers they have attributed to them; so you cannot accept one god but reject the other even if it's not part of your races religion.

2. If your race has evolved without developing a concept of a "higher power" not including things such as a wheel of life, reincarnation, a certain "something" about the universe, then your race will not be affected by the "gods" of another since they have never attributed power to any form or sort of entity.

It's essentially a give or take scenario, up to the users disgrssion to decide aptly if their race will be affected. For example I have two races which I use, the Klikiss and the Phale A'Theins. The Phale A'Theins do not believe in a higher power, attributing things to either an explanation or that "it just happens" factor in the universe, as such they are not affected.

On the other hand my Klikiss were a highly technological race which never thought of the possibility of a god and so were unaffected. Howeve as they plunged into the depths of the universes fabvric and discovered the mechanics behind so called gods they came to accept the actuality of gods through simple, if abstract, logic.

That doesn't stop gods from communicating with non-affected races via their presence or spekaing, they simply don't hold any direct power over them or their own creations; after all, if somethings there but you don't believe you'll likely attribute it to a phenomena or a mystery.