NationStates Jolt Archive

Question

Is there a description somewhere of Blackhelm's tanker/carriers and their escorts? What ARE those escorts and how many are out there?

i dunno. my country's being attacked by fast-attack boats and five cruisers. better have something better than that, or he's just giving my navy targets.

griffencrest (blackhelm) is usually pretty good at the whole war fighting thing. be careful.

thanks for the heads up. but i mean, seriously. a private company contacts allanea and his reaction is to blockade my coasts?

btw, i'm having another country join in to help me soon.

Can any of you talk to me on AiM/MSN?

My AiM is MicroBalrog, and the MSN is microbalrog@hotmail.com

just added you

Poke me with a message, then.

Question

Is there a description somewhere of Blackhelm's tanker/carriers and their escorts? What ARE those escorts and how many are out there?

I also would like to know this. I've sent him multiple TGs, of which he's ignored all.

I'm on AIM too.

Want backup Boris?

Want backup Boris?

Whose side would you be on?

...Er, Allaneas, because I was talking to him -_-

...Er, Allaneas, because I was talking to him -_-

Cool. I didn't his real name.

Is APOC still active?

No :P

Well Griffincrest is a large company, its pretty much its own country, it has private armies, private warships, etc.

Its entirely possible for that to happen.

...For what to happen?

I am thinking of Surporting Griffincrest in this war.

I am thinking of Surporting Griffincrest in this war.

One problem with that. No one knows that Griffencrest is behind the pirates, at least ICly.

Otherwise I have no problem with you joining, but that is up to Allanea and Griffencrest.

alrighty, this doesn't have to do with the pirate attacks specifically so much as it has to do with the conflict as a whole. Am I correct in assuming that at least some Griffincrest executives (the ones involved in their military operations) are not in hiding, and possibly vulnerable to assassination? I ask because I wish to have the AL take a crack at killing some of 'em, my little initial contribution to Allanea's cause.

Want backup Boris?

Given my generally shitty navy, backup from NS' prime naval superpower would be very nice.:D

I am thinking of Surporting Griffincrest in this war.

While generally this is an open thread, I would prefer not to have TRBI in it due to the fact I have huge difficulty reading his posts.

I apologize to TRBI to any inconvenience this might cause.

Hey, sorry for not catching this earlier.

My carriers are converted Suezmax tankers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suezmax)
Other ships are Kilic's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C4%B1l%C4%B1%C3%A7_class)

Although I'm sure you have hundreds, how many of these bombs do you have?

Although I'm sure you have hundreds, how many of these bombs do you have?

I've no clue.

Remember my nation has no ICBMs or SLBMs.

My entire offensive nuclear arsenal is free-fall nukes for their comparative cheapness.

Also, do your boats use Harpoon missiles or some NS-designed armament?

so, is this strictly mt, or pmt as well?

Wait are the Privateers are sinking the ships but not taking any cargo?

Isn't that more "Commerce Raiding" than piracy?

Oh and Tag for interest.

so, is this strictly mt, or pmt as well?


PMT. Both me and Blackhelm are.

PMT. Both me and Blackhelm are.

Same here

blackhelm are you going to reply to my post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14001192&postcount=37)?

Blackhelm thanks for the info on your ships it will help me figure how the battle will go.
Please note you are facing my whole task force not just one carrier (lets put it down to bad intell. on your part if you want)
The Battle cruiser with escorts along with the two CVLS will most likely give your attack force a bad day.
Let me give you an Idea of some of my Equipment.

Sea Gripen = The SAAB Gripen fighter moded for light carrier duty.

A-10N = US A-10 enough said

Tiger Class BCN = Cotish built Tiger BC if he jumps on he can give you a link to the stats if you need it (can't seem to find it myself)

Fletcher Class Fast Corvette= Updated Fletcher class DD with modern missiles, Sonar and electronic gear. Armed with two 5 inch guns, anti-ship, and anti-aircraft missiles.

Minotaur Class CVL = These are brand new light military carrier's. standard anti-ship and missile compliment. Carries 24 Sea-Gripens and 12 A-10ns or 12 Sea-Harriers. They also carry 3 to 4 helicopters for search and rescue and Anti-submarine work.

Tarlaq, yea, I didn't realize it was so many ships. I guess its guna be a quick hit and run, to see how much damage we can do.

I'll post up tonight, too lazy atm.

Commander Haro was in a frenzy, barking orders to a dozen ships in several languages. Many reports pouring in, two in particular causing concern.

Ralkovia had joined Blackhelm in it's quest for control of Allanean shipping lanes. Ostensibly because they thought they would be rewarded by the larger and more powerful BC government. 'Theyr'e gonna get rewarded alright', thought Haro. Ensign Naga, advise Amra of Ralkovian presence and get me any info on them. I'm not particularly concerned about them, and I have half a plan figured out where we could possibly nip this war in the bud."


(Dude
A. There is no way in hell that you would know, none of my posts have even taken place outside my country.
B. I haven't even mobilized my nations military, plus I still don't even know if I am going to actually join in the war yet
C. All my meeting take place in private and between the Emperor and his council so there is no possible way for you to know what is happening

PMT. Both me and Blackhelm are.

PMT? Sweet. I get to play with my fun toys.

... Having seen the Haven map... I really think Blackhelm needs a larger navy.

... Having seen the Haven map... I really think Blackhelm needs a larger navy.

I am reminded of that scene in Split Second for some reason.

I am reminded of that scene in Split Second for some reason.

I'm reminded of that scene in the whole Mediterannean naval theatre for some reason. Oh wait, that wasn't a movie.

OOC: Findan and other submarine attackers, you would have been picked up before getting within 1600 meters.

I find it quite unlikely that you will have detected my submarine, as it approached the target, in this case the modified Suezmax-turned-carrier at well below tactical silent speed, meaning that it is more or less a hole in the water that is virtually impossible to detect unless you're conducting active sonar searches, something which is quite unlikely that you would do as that would effectively tell every deaf chap listening in that particular ocean where you are, which is something you definately don't want to do. The Tigerhai class (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1767&hl=) is a state-of-the-art submarine that is designed for stealth and destruction, and has been approved by the NS Draftroom (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?act=idx). Among the features designed to increase the stealth of the Tigerhai class are, and the bulk of these features are considered Secret IC, a shrouded pumpjet propulsor in place of the conventional propeller, a isolating foam-like substance between the inner pressure hull and the external hull that is designed to keep sounds created inside the pressure hull and not allow any sound outside the submarine, and a rubber-like coating over the outer hull designed to absorb sounds and prevent them from escaping the submarine, as well as absorbing sound waves coming from external sources such as sonar pulses, making it even harder to detect the submarine.

Additionally, it is highly doubtful that you'd be able to fit any effective sort of sonar system to the modified Suezmax. Certainly nothing effective enough to pick up a stealthy state-of-the-art submarine making the most of its only true weapon against detection, namely stealth.

Now, I appreciate that you may have added escorts to this ship (only a fool wouldn't), but after reviewing both the IC and OOC threads prior to posting, I saw you mentioning that the only escort-type vessel you're using is the Turkish Kilic-class corvette. Now, this is a good ship, but it is not designed for ASW warfare, nor does it possess any sonar or other sensor system that looks underwater, nor does it possess any means of engaging any underwater threats.

For these reasons, I find it highly unlikely that you would have picked the submarines up on SONAR.

More importantly, there is no NEED for a sub to ever GET within 1600 meters.

Modern torpedoes (speak not of cruise missiles launched from subs) can acquire targets at far longer ranges).

(Dude
A. There is no way in hell that you would know, none of my posts have even taken place outside my country.
B. I haven't even mobilized my nations military, plus I still don't even know if I am going to actually join in the war yet
C. All my meeting take place in private and between the Emperor and his council so there is no possible way for you to know what is happening


Point somewhat well-taken, but why don't you just go with it? With my OBPs ablility to 'snoop' on any conversation within 3,000 miles, it's concievable that we're aware of potential eventualities. You seem to be a capable player. So in the words of Gunnery SGT. Highway: Anticipate and Adapt.

Point somewhat well-taken, but why don't you just go with it? With my OBPs ablility to 'snoop' on any conversation within 3,000 miles, it's concievable that we're aware of potential eventualities. You seem to be a capable player. So in the words of Gunnery SGT. Highway: Anticipate and Adapt.


Also, as an FYI, it might be a good idea to rethink your potential affiliation w/BC. There a a couple of nations who are contemplating entering this war against BC/GC. Theyr'e not as nice as I am.....

Blackhelm, can you post some ORBAT as to how many ships you have in theater (and hoq many there were when you started this thread?) Otherwise I am finding it difficult to track how successful our operations are being, or how much damage I should take from yours.

I usually take secrecy to the limit. My meetings usually take place underground in soundproof rooms where we speak a different language

And thats why I like to remain playing in the background, you can't attack your enemies homeland if you don't know who you're enemies homeland is.

Please revise for my sake

Bullshit. All conversations were conducted on a person to person basis. You have no way of knowing he is involved.

I usually take secrecy to the limit. My meetings usually take place underground in soundproof rooms where we speak a different language

And thats why I like to remain playing in the background, you can't attack your enemies homeland if you don't know who you're enemies homeland is.

Please revise for my sake


you got it

Blackhelm, can you post some ORBAT as to how many ships you have in theater (and hoq many there were when you started this thread?) Otherwise I am finding it difficult to track how successful our operations are being, or how much damage I should take from yours.

here

Allanea:

600 Kilic's in groups of five.
We have one Al Riyadh for every pack

All carriers withdrawn.

I find it quite unlikely that you will have detected my submarine, as it approached the target, in this case the modified Suezmax-turned-carrier at well below tactical silent speed, meaning that it is more or less a hole in the water that is virtually impossible to detect unless you're conducting active sonar searches, something which is quite unlikely that you would do as that would effectively tell every deaf chap listening in that particular ocean where you are, which is something you definately don't want to do. The Tigerhai class (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1767&hl=) is a state-of-the-art submarine that is designed for stealth and destruction, and has been approved by the NS Draftroom (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?act=idx). Among the features designed to increase the stealth of the Tigerhai class are, and the bulk of these features are considered Secret IC, a shrouded pumpjet propulsor in place of the conventional propeller, a isolating foam-like substance between the inner pressure hull and the external hull that is designed to keep sounds created inside the pressure hull and not allow any sound outside the submarine, and a rubber-like coating over the outer hull designed to absorb sounds and prevent them from escaping the submarine, as well as absorbing sound waves coming from external sources such as sonar pulses, making it even harder to detect the submarine.

Additionally, it is highly doubtful that you'd be able to fit any effective sort of sonar system to the modified Suezmax. Certainly nothing effective enough to pick up a stealthy state-of-the-art submarine making the most of its only true weapon against detection, namely stealth.

Now, I appreciate that you may have added escorts to this ship (only a fool wouldn't), but after reviewing both the IC and OOC threads prior to posting, I saw you mentioning that the only escort-type vessel you're using is the Turkish Kilic-class corvette. Now, this is a good ship, but it is not designed for ASW warfare, nor does it possess any sonar or other sensor system that looks underwater, nor does it possess any means of engaging any underwater threats.

For these reasons, I find it highly unlikely that you would have picked the submarines up on SONAR.

Thank you for that point Cotland. And I did not use sonar. And plus I was using Virginia class SSN's, not exactly the most detectable. Considering it was possible to get that close to a ship without detection in a Los Angeles class sub. I agree with Cotland here. I just don't see how you could've detected us.

aw I so do not wanna get into a battle with allanea that will just not end well for me . . . :( btw are their any problems with my involvement?

I thought you were just sending diplomatic messages?

Also, guys, can we find some solution to this thing with the subs? Blackhelm, modern torpedoes are longer ranged than 1600 meters, and PMT ones will be longer-ranged yet.

Everybody else, don't rag too hard on Blackhelm over this.

Let's just come up with some small number of casualties that'll satisfy everyone, and we can move on.

What about my Naval air attack? Blackhelm can you respond to that please. And I will fix my subs post as well.

everything is gone.

I thought you were just sending diplomatic messages?

Also, guys, can we find some solution to this thing with the subs? Blackhelm, modern torpedoes are longer ranged than 1600 meters, and PMT ones will be longer-ranged yet.

Everybody else, don't rag too hard on Blackhelm over this.

Let's just come up with some small number of casualties that'll satisfy everyone, and we can move on.
for now. But i've got all sorts of treaties with Ralkovia. If he doesn't get involved then I'm good. . . Otherwise . . .not fun. Definatly a badness thing

Gone? What is gone?

I fixed the range on my sub attack. Can you please respond too it.

So where did Blackhelm go?

Good question, I was under the inpression he may be one of those who don't post on the weekend.

So where did Blackhelm go?

I think he realized we were gonna beat him to a pulp...or at least, that was my goal...

Now now, don't be rude. It could very well just be the weekend thing. Give the guy a day before you judge. After that, judge your black little heart out. ;)

This is a case of Pirates vs regular navies. Blackhekm knew from the start he was going to be outnumber and out gunned. So please give him time to respond.

he's the one who tried to blockade my country, even though i don't know the guy or anything...and i saw him reading the thread a couple of days ago (i like that new feature).

btw, not to be rude, but stating my opinion, the previous posts he has left sound like when someone gets pissed and just ditches a thread.

(for clarification, see Dane Cooks skit on Monopoly).

there could be a lot of reasons people don't post for a while. for instance, I'm waiting for Vhammpyr to post his arrival before I do anything else as we're ging to have to coordinate our attacks. when THAT happens, BC/GC's ass is gonna be grass....heh :wink:

Hey, leave some for me :P

and i get what you mean. I was merely speaking an opinion from previous incidents in threads i've been a part of.

ATTENTION NEW THREAD HERE (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=14019067)

ORBAT:

10 Force Projection Battlegroups (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&p=1852492)
50 Carrier Battlegroups (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&p=1931767)
20 Cruiser Strike Squdrons (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&p=6994211)
20 Cruiser Escort Squadrons (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&p=6994213)
20 Tyrant-Class B/G Missile Submarines
40 Torrent class Arsenal ships
100 Pepperbox LSVs
500 Type 07 Avisos
35 Elusive Class battleships


Total: 3,035 ships

Orbat

321st Bomber Wing

100 B-92 Shrikes, 50 B-1B Lancers, 50 B-52 Stratofortresses

9th Expeditionary Fleet

5 Gibraltar-class carriers (CAW-5/9/14/20/12)
3 Concordia-class battleships
20 Xerxes-class heavy cruisers
35 Shahriyar-class missile frigates
50 Priam-class destroyers
15 Alpha Mk III attack submarines
3 Typhoon ballistic missile submarines

4th Airlift Wing

100 C-5 Galaxy transports, 45 CV-30 Vogels

Transporting: 1st Army Division, 34th Mechanized battalion, 21st Army Aviation Brigade

allanea, do we send our forces to join yours? i assume so, but what of our ground forces?

Right. Post is up, and total number of EKVs currently hunting down and slaughtering anything to do with Griffincrest, mercs that (have) work(ed) for Griffincrest, and the Confederacy in general comes to 20,016: The vast majority (17,280) from the boomers, 1584 from the Sabres, and 1152 from the weapons satellites. In total, enough to kill off everything in RL orbit more than twice over (disregarding, of course, an orbital cascade, which doesn't seem to exist for NS Earth anyhow). Didn't know how many targets I have, so I decided to apply Rule #37 of the Seven Habits of Highly Effective Pirates.

Note that the weapons launch precedes the declaration of war by about an hour, and that determining the source of the SLBMs is close to impossible on such short notice. Only things really traceable are the Sabres, who are doing the targeting work and a wee bit of shooting, and as I'm rather doubtful you'd have any reason (or the resources) to watch what until moments before were inoffensive space planes minding their own business. Should prevent retaliation until after the EKVs have done their job.

Anyway, will have an ORBAT up for both fleets and army tomorrow. For now, g'night!

As a heads up allanea . . .my merc. forces (who are in no way connected to the ASD, Abide outside the ASD and are made of up oth ex-ASD citizens AND foreign nationals) have been hired to attack ur shipping.

Ok folks, here is the low down.

A) I am not fighting creatures who are undead. Sorry, but that is out of the questions.

B) We have seven layers of anti-air defense in a series of rings. Many rings also double as anti-missile and anti-ship as well.

Layer 1 - AAD-1 Anti-Air Balloons
Layer 2 - Carrier based interception (SuFB-8 Strike Phoenix)
Layer 3 - Air Fleet (Hyperion and Condor Class Airships and Trojan II Class Airbourne carriers containing MiG-29's, Mako Class bombers if on anti-shipping duty)
Layer 4 - Land based interception (MiG-31, Su-30)
Layer 5 - Sea Wall
Layer 6 - Confederate Defense Directorate
Layer 7 - Local SAM's and AAA

AAD-1
Introducing an all new airborne platform which lofts 6 AIM-57 Super Phoenix Missiles, 12 AIM-9X Sidewinders, a huge ass radar and a FLIR system into the atmosphere, functional from 1,000 to 60,000 feet
The AAD system can be dropped out the back of a C-5 and it auto inflates.
If the ballon is puunctured by the enemy a parachute deploys and it floats safely to the ground so u can use it again.
The skin of the ballon is reflective/semi-clear so u cant see it too good from a distance plus you can link the radars together to form a massive AWACs style radar net. Best used in conjuction with ground based defenses.
Engines
Dual 40hp electric props for station keeping, r can be tethered
Altitude controled by gas valves/tanks
Electronics/CounterMeasures
M-56 Airborne Radar Array
120 RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
40 JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
1 AN/ALQ-178 ECM pod

Mako Bomber
Crew: 7
Length: well, its long
Power Plant: (7) Turboprops (4 of which rotate) (1) Gas Turbine powered ducted fan
Range: 4,000+ miles unrefueled
Service Celing: 30,000 feet
Cruising Speed: 200mph
Maximum Safe Speed: 350mph
Weapons
(6) MOAB Fuel-AirExplosive Bombes in cartridge bomb rack -or-
(24) 1,000 pound JDAM
(2) 30mm Vulcan Guns ( in 2 radar guided opticaly tracked, crew serverd bubble turrets)
(6) SA-102 modified SAMs in (2) launchers
Counter Measures/Electronics
(280) RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
(200) JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
(2) anti-IR missile laser pods(these just blind IR sensors)
(2) AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pods
(2) AN/ALQ-178 ECM pods
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
(1)Air Search Radome (Same as the one on the E-1 Diamond!)

Trojan II

The Trojan II Class Rigid Aircraft Carrier is a helium filled, rigid airship (not a blimp). The helium is contained in several self-sealing cells which are packed in a kevlar/polymer composite skin which is wrapped around a lightwieght foamed titanium alloy skeleton. There are 6 turbofans which provide foward flight propulsion, two stationary gas turbine powered ducted fan to provide additonal power and to conserve fuel while cruising. The Trojan II Class improves greatly on the old Trojan Class, which combined the capabilites of the KC-10 Tanker, the E-3 AWACS, and the US airborne aircraft carriers of World War 1. We have been able to hold 20 F-3 HellcatIIs on bard and conduct the launching and recovery under many circumstances. A lightwieght magnetic catapault(powered by the solar panels or fuel cells) propells the aircraft foward. Since during launch the air is passing over the wings of the aircraft to be launched at 300mph the catapault only acts as an ejector system to get the aircraft clear of the airship. The launching aircraft only needs to use 60% engine power to get clear of the airship's leading edge, and a blast deflector protects the planes left on the deck from being damaged. Landing is a bit tricky but it can be achived routinely with a little practice. The operation is much like in-flight refueling, the aircraft brings its self up to the back of the air ship and slowy accelrates/brakes until it is hovering over the landing area on the outer ramp. The arrestor hook(which has to be moved to the front) then captures a hook and the aircraft powers down, making contact with the deck. The hook winches the aircraft in further and the rear hatch is closed. There is a small sotrage area for 7-10 planes under the main deck and in the gondolas, the rest can be stored on top of the deck. There is enough room to re arm and refuel the aircraft for aother mission while they are all on deck. The pilots and crews can sleep, eat and relax in the comforts of the airliner style cabins and galley. Should a catostrophe occur the flight crew in the foward gondolas would detach and they can hold 2 additonal passengers. As for the rest of the crew, a number of 2 man "escape pods" eject through the top of the airships skin and then parachute to saftey. These pods float in water and are protected from NBC attacks as well. These pods are used only if the aircraft can not be launched in time off the deck.(2 pods are downward firing in the plane storage area on the deck.) Two massive radars are enclosed by the skin of the airship (the skin acts as a big radome) It can track multiple airborne targets and act as athe control AWACS for a larger air force operation. If the radar detects incoming missiles, it carries a large variety and quantiy of counter measures to keep it protected from enemy fire. Should the skin of the airship be punctured, up to golf ball sized holes can be self-sealed by a special gel. It can also also refuel bombers, fighters, or another Airship via its 2 hose and drouge systems and 2 flying boom system. Also all on board batteries and fuel-cell systems are supplemented by the solar panels which recharge all systems, in-flight, saving on fuel.
Specifications
Crew: 50 standard (69 max)
[1 pilot, 1 co-pilot, 12 airship crew/weapons/AWACS operators, 2 boom operators , 34 aircraft pilots/support crew
Length: very long, longer than you!
Power Plant: (2) Turbofans (2) Gas Turbine powered ducted fans in tail
Range: 4,000+ miles unrefueled
Service Celing: 33,000 feet
Cruising Speed: 112mph (using rear engines only)
Normal speed: 240mph
Maximum Safe Speed: 320mph
Maximum Speed: 500mph(not reccomended)
Aircraft:
(20) normal sized Fighters
or (24) A-4X sized aircraft.
Weapons
(6) CIWS 30mm Vulcan turrets
(12) AIM-9Z Sidewinders(2 mounted on each CIWS)
(6) SA-102 modified SAMs in (2) launchers
(1) THEL Anti-Missile Laser
(12) AIM-120 AMRAAM or (4) Cruise missiles in foward ports
(9) AIM-54 Phoenix missle in (3) 360 degree turret mounts.
(2) ALMV/ASAT missiles
Counter Measures/Electronics
(320) RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
(210) JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
(2) anti-IR missile laser pods(these just blind IR sensors)
(2) AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pods
(2) AN/ALQ-178 ECM pods
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
(2)Air Search Radome (Same as the one on the E-3)

Hyperion Airship

The Hyperion Class of Rigid Airship is a helium filled, rigid airship (not a blimp). The helium is contained in several self-sealing cells which are packed in a kevlar/polymer composite skin which is wrapped around a lightwieght titanium alloy skeleton. There are 8 turboprops which provide foward flight propulsion, 5 gas turbines powering 4 rotating and one stationary ducted fan provide additonal power(one fan is located in the tail the other 4 help make speedy liftoffs with thurst vectoring).The Hyperion class combines the capabilites of the AC-130 Spectre gunship, the KC-10/KC-130 Tankers, the E-2C Hawkeye, the Graf Zepplins of WWI, the B-52 bomber, the A-10 and the 747-400 ABL aircraft. It carries an impressive amount of cannons and machine guns and can saturate and orbit an area for many hours laying down cover fire. It also carries a large array of anti-tank, anti- aircraft anti-ship or cruise missles and many types of bombs. It can hold 20 fully equipped paratroopers or spec ops in the cargo bay. In lieu of troops, the cargo bay can hold a MOAB or Daisy Cutter or Hades fuel-air bomb. A massive radar is enclosed by the skin of the airship (the skin acts as a massive radome) It can tract multiple airborne targets. If if it tracks an ICBM, SCUD, or cruise missile, it has the ability to destroy it with its airborne laser(ABL). The ABL can also be used for defense, to destroy SAMs or AAMs. (It carries a large variety and quantiy of counter measures to keep it protected from enemy fire. If a missile does get by all the complex systems, the airframe can take a heavy hit since it is heavily armored with boron carbide plates. and should the skin of the airship be punctured, up to golf ball sized holes can be self-sealed. It can also refuel helicopters, bombers, fighters, even another Airship via 2 house and drouge systems and 1 flying boom system. Also all on board batteries and fuel-cell systems are supplementd by solar panels which recharce all systems, in-flight, saving on fuel.
Specifications
Crew: 4 flight crew, 16 weapons/AWACS operators, 1 boom operator, up to 20 paratroops.
Length: many feet
Power Plant: (8} Turboprops (5) Gas Turbines in vectorable/rotating ducts.
Service Celing: 30,000 feet,
Cruising Speed: 280mph
Maximum Speed: 320mph
Weapons
(8} 56mm rapid fire Cannons in 4 turrets
(2) 105mm Howitzers in 2 turrets
(4) 30mm 3 barrel cannons in 2 turrets
(1) ABL/COIL High Energy Laser in turret
(7) CIWS 20mm Phalanx turrets
(2) Cruise missiles up to the size of a SS-N-22
(1) 40mm MK-109 Grenade machine gun in nose turret
(1) 25mm 3 Barrel Gatling Cannon in nose turret
(2) 25mm Bushmaster MGs in 1 rear turret
(4) bomb bays that can carry a number of laser guided bombs, JDAMs, nuclear bombs, air to ground missiles,anti-ship missiles, nuclear or conventional depth charges, phoenix or amraam anti-air missiles
(48} AIM-9Z Sidewinder in 2 turret launchers
(8} FIM-92 Stinger in 4 swivel mounts
(6) Tomahawk Cruise Missiles
(6) Patriot PAC-3 or SA-102 Griffin modified SAMs in 2 launchers
(12) AGM-65 Mavericks
(24) Rockeye cluster bombs or regular bombs of simialr size, or (8} JDAM sized bombs on wing bomb racks
(4) AIM-120 AMRAAM
(12) AIM-132 ASRAAM
(4) AIM-54 Phoenix missle on 360 degree turret mount.
(2) ALMV/ASAT missiles
Counter Measures/Electronics
300 RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
40 MJU-53/B Infrared Decoy Flare
106 MJU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pod
2 AN/ALQ-178 ECM pods
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
Air Search Radome (Same as the one on the E-2C)


Condor Class Airship

The Condor Class represents an unprecendented new level of airborne force projection. Combining the ground assault capability of a Hyperion, with the aircraft carrying capability of a Trojan, the condor is the first airship which has the ability to rival oceangoing ships in effectiveness. As with all Phoenix Dynamix Airships, the Condor is a rigid airframe held aloft by the movement of the air over it's surfaces and hydrogen gas. The hydrogen is contained in several self-sealing cells which are packed in a kevlar/polymer composite skin which is wrapped around a lightwieght foamed titanium alloy skeleton. Fighters are porpelled off of the flight deck by catapult into the wind and take off is a breeeze . Landing is a bit tricky but it can be achived routinely with a little practice. The operation is much like in-flight refueling, the aircraft brings its self up to the back of the air ship and slowy accelrates/brakes until it is hovering over the landing area on the outer ramp. The arrestor hook(which has to be moved to the front) then captures a hook and the aircraft powers down, making contact with the deck. The hook winches the aircraft in further and the rear hatch is closed. There is a small storage area for aircraft supplies and munitons under the main deck and in the gondolas, the rest can be stored on top of the deck. There is enough room to re arm and refuel the aircraft for aother mission while they are all on deck. The pilots and crews can sleep, eat and relax in the comforts of the airliner style cabins and galley. Should a catostrophe occur the flight crew in the foward gondolas would detach and they can hold 2 additonal passengers. As for the rest of the crew, a number of 2 man "escape pods" eject through the top of the airships skin and then parachute to saftey. These pods float in water and are protected from NBC attacks as well. These pods are used only if the aircraft can not be launched in time off the deck.(2 pods are downward firing in the plane storage area on the deck.) A massive radar array is enclosed in the central airbag. It can track multiple airborne targets and act as the control AWACS for a larger air force operation, or simply for its fighter complement. If the radar detects incoming missiles, it carries a large variety and quantiy of counter measures to keep it protected from enemy fire. Should the skin of the airship be punctured, up to golf ball sized holes can be self-sealed by a special gel which runs through "viens" under the skin. It can also also refuel bombers, fighters, or another Airship via its in-flight refueling boom system. All on board batteries and fuel-cell systems are supplemented by intergrated solar panels which recharge all systems in-flight, saving on fuel.
Specifications
Crew: 60 (minimum), 77 (max)
[2 pilots, 2 co-pilots, 1 radio intercept officer, 1 navigator, 16 airship crew/weapons/AWACS operators, 2 boom operators , up to 36 aircraft pilots/support crew
Length: very long, longer than you!
Power Plant: (6) Turbofan jet engines, (2) rotating Gas Turbine powered ducted fans and (3) Gas Turbine powered ducted fans in tail
Range: 4,000+ miles unrefueled
Service Celing: 30,000 feet
Cruising Speed: 130mph (using rear turbine engines only)
Normal speed: 220mph
Maximum Safe Speed: 265mph
Maximum Speed: 400mph(not reccomended)
Aircraft:
(12) F-14 Tomcat or simmilar sized aircraft or
(22) A-4X Skyhawk or simmmilar sized aircraft or a mix
Weapons
(2) 155mm cannons in central underside turret
(8) CIWS 30mm Vulcan turrets
(16) AIM-9Z Sidewinders(2 mounted on each CIWS)
(12) AGM-65 Maverick, (10) AGM-84 Harpoon or 6 cruise missiles in fore and aft turret launchers
(6) AIM-54 Phoenix misslies in (2) right and left side turret mounts.
(56) unguided bombs, up to 500lbs ea.
Counter Measures/Electronics
(300) RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
(200) JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
(1) anti-IR missile laser pod(blindsIR sensors)
(1) AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pod
(1) AN/ALQ-178 ECM pod
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
(1)Air Search Radome

Confederate Defense Directorate
[1] M-56 AC-1Z Radar Hub
[9] SA-202 Theater range, radar guided, surface-to-air missiles on (3) rotating, reloadable pedestal launchers.
[36] SA-101 ELR-SLAM Missiles on (1) compound turret with independent radar
[8] Radar guided 40mm Anti-Aircraft Artillery cannons mounted on (2) turrets(4 x 30mm gatling cannons)
[1] CIWS Turret with independent radar (30mm gatling gun)
[6] 3 point Phoenix Dynamix Full Spectrum Close-In Layered Active Shield (FCLAS) systems
- 1000 of these batteries are positioned all along the Confederate coastline

Ok folks, here is the low down.

A) I am not fighting creatures who are undead. Sorry, but that is out of the questions.

B) We have seven layers of anti-air defense in a series of rings. Many rings also double as anti-missile and anti-ship as well.

Layer 1 - AAD-1 Anti-Air Balloons
Layer 2 - Carrier based interception (SuFB-8 Strike Phoenix)
Layer 3 - Air Fleet (Hyperion and Condor Class Airships and Trojan II Class Airbourne carriers containing MiG-29's, Mako Class bombers if on anti-shipping duty)
Layer 4 - Land based interception (MiG-31, Su-30)
Layer 5 - Sea Wall
Layer 6 - Confederate Defense Directorate
Layer 7 - Local SAM's and AAA

AAD-1
Introducing an all new airborne platform which lofts 6 AIM-57 Super Phoenix Missiles, 12 AIM-9X Sidewinders, a huge ass radar and a FLIR system into the atmosphere, functional from 1,000 to 60,000 feet
The AAD system can be dropped out the back of a C-5 and it auto inflates.
If the ballon is puunctured by the enemy a parachute deploys and it floats safely to the ground so u can use it again.
The skin of the ballon is reflective/semi-clear so u cant see it too good from a distance plus you can link the radars together to form a massive AWACs style radar net. Best used in conjuction with ground based defenses.
Engines
Dual 40hp electric props for station keeping, r can be tethered
Altitude controled by gas valves/tanks
Electronics/CounterMeasures
M-56 Airborne Radar Array
120 RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
40 JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
1 AN/ALQ-178 ECM pod

Mako Bomber
Crew: 7
Length: well, its long
Power Plant: (7) Turboprops (4 of which rotate) (1) Gas Turbine powered ducted fan
Range: 4,000+ miles unrefueled
Service Celing: 30,000 feet
Cruising Speed: 200mph
Maximum Safe Speed: 350mph
Weapons
(6) MOAB Fuel-AirExplosive Bombes in cartridge bomb rack -or-
(24) 1,000 pound JDAM
(2) 30mm Vulcan Guns ( in 2 radar guided opticaly tracked, crew serverd bubble turrets)
(6) SA-102 modified SAMs in (2) launchers
Counter Measures/Electronics
(280) RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
(200) JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
(2) anti-IR missile laser pods(these just blind IR sensors)
(2) AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pods
(2) AN/ALQ-178 ECM pods
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
(1)Air Search Radome (Same as the one on the E-1 Diamond!)

Trojan II

The Trojan II Class Rigid Aircraft Carrier is a helium filled, rigid airship (not a blimp). The helium is contained in several self-sealing cells which are packed in a kevlar/polymer composite skin which is wrapped around a lightwieght foamed titanium alloy skeleton. There are 6 turbofans which provide foward flight propulsion, two stationary gas turbine powered ducted fan to provide additonal power and to conserve fuel while cruising. The Trojan II Class improves greatly on the old Trojan Class, which combined the capabilites of the KC-10 Tanker, the E-3 AWACS, and the US airborne aircraft carriers of World War 1. We have been able to hold 20 F-3 HellcatIIs on bard and conduct the launching and recovery under many circumstances. A lightwieght magnetic catapault(powered by the solar panels or fuel cells) propells the aircraft foward. Since during launch the air is passing over the wings of the aircraft to be launched at 300mph the catapault only acts as an ejector system to get the aircraft clear of the airship. The launching aircraft only needs to use 60% engine power to get clear of the airship's leading edge, and a blast deflector protects the planes left on the deck from being damaged. Landing is a bit tricky but it can be achived routinely with a little practice. The operation is much like in-flight refueling, the aircraft brings its self up to the back of the air ship and slowy accelrates/brakes until it is hovering over the landing area on the outer ramp. The arrestor hook(which has to be moved to the front) then captures a hook and the aircraft powers down, making contact with the deck. The hook winches the aircraft in further and the rear hatch is closed. There is a small sotrage area for 7-10 planes under the main deck and in the gondolas, the rest can be stored on top of the deck. There is enough room to re arm and refuel the aircraft for aother mission while they are all on deck. The pilots and crews can sleep, eat and relax in the comforts of the airliner style cabins and galley. Should a catostrophe occur the flight crew in the foward gondolas would detach and they can hold 2 additonal passengers. As for the rest of the crew, a number of 2 man "escape pods" eject through the top of the airships skin and then parachute to saftey. These pods float in water and are protected from NBC attacks as well. These pods are used only if the aircraft can not be launched in time off the deck.(2 pods are downward firing in the plane storage area on the deck.) Two massive radars are enclosed by the skin of the airship (the skin acts as a big radome) It can track multiple airborne targets and act as athe control AWACS for a larger air force operation. If the radar detects incoming missiles, it carries a large variety and quantiy of counter measures to keep it protected from enemy fire. Should the skin of the airship be punctured, up to golf ball sized holes can be self-sealed by a special gel. It can also also refuel bombers, fighters, or another Airship via its 2 hose and drouge systems and 2 flying boom system. Also all on board batteries and fuel-cell systems are supplemented by the solar panels which recharge all systems, in-flight, saving on fuel.
Specifications
Crew: 50 standard (69 max)
[1 pilot, 1 co-pilot, 12 airship crew/weapons/AWACS operators, 2 boom operators , 34 aircraft pilots/support crew
Length: very long, longer than you!
Power Plant: (2) Turbofans (2) Gas Turbine powered ducted fans in tail
Range: 4,000+ miles unrefueled
Service Celing: 33,000 feet
Cruising Speed: 112mph (using rear engines only)
Normal speed: 240mph
Maximum Safe Speed: 320mph
Maximum Speed: 500mph(not reccomended)
Aircraft:
(20) normal sized Fighters
or (24) A-4X sized aircraft.
Weapons
(6) CIWS 30mm Vulcan turrets
(12) AIM-9Z Sidewinders(2 mounted on each CIWS)
(6) SA-102 modified SAMs in (2) launchers
(1) THEL Anti-Missile Laser
(12) AIM-120 AMRAAM or (4) Cruise missiles in foward ports
(9) AIM-54 Phoenix missle in (3) 360 degree turret mounts.
(2) ALMV/ASAT missiles
Counter Measures/Electronics
(320) RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
(210) JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
(2) anti-IR missile laser pods(these just blind IR sensors)
(2) AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pods
(2) AN/ALQ-178 ECM pods
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
(2)Air Search Radome (Same as the one on the E-3)

Hyperion Airship

The Hyperion Class of Rigid Airship is a helium filled, rigid airship (not a blimp). The helium is contained in several self-sealing cells which are packed in a kevlar/polymer composite skin which is wrapped around a lightwieght titanium alloy skeleton. There are 8 turboprops which provide foward flight propulsion, 5 gas turbines powering 4 rotating and one stationary ducted fan provide additonal power(one fan is located in the tail the other 4 help make speedy liftoffs with thurst vectoring).The Hyperion class combines the capabilites of the AC-130 Spectre gunship, the KC-10/KC-130 Tankers, the E-2C Hawkeye, the Graf Zepplins of WWI, the B-52 bomber, the A-10 and the 747-400 ABL aircraft. It carries an impressive amount of cannons and machine guns and can saturate and orbit an area for many hours laying down cover fire. It also carries a large array of anti-tank, anti- aircraft anti-ship or cruise missles and many types of bombs. It can hold 20 fully equipped paratroopers or spec ops in the cargo bay. In lieu of troops, the cargo bay can hold a MOAB or Daisy Cutter or Hades fuel-air bomb. A massive radar is enclosed by the skin of the airship (the skin acts as a massive radome) It can tract multiple airborne targets. If if it tracks an ICBM, SCUD, or cruise missile, it has the ability to destroy it with its airborne laser(ABL). The ABL can also be used for defense, to destroy SAMs or AAMs. (It carries a large variety and quantiy of counter measures to keep it protected from enemy fire. If a missile does get by all the complex systems, the airframe can take a heavy hit since it is heavily armored with boron carbide plates. and should the skin of the airship be punctured, up to golf ball sized holes can be self-sealed. It can also refuel helicopters, bombers, fighters, even another Airship via 2 house and drouge systems and 1 flying boom system. Also all on board batteries and fuel-cell systems are supplementd by solar panels which recharce all systems, in-flight, saving on fuel.
Specifications
Crew: 4 flight crew, 16 weapons/AWACS operators, 1 boom operator, up to 20 paratroops.
Length: many feet
Power Plant: (8} Turboprops (5) Gas Turbines in vectorable/rotating ducts.
Service Celing: 30,000 feet,
Cruising Speed: 280mph
Maximum Speed: 320mph
Weapons
(8} 56mm rapid fire Cannons in 4 turrets
(2) 105mm Howitzers in 2 turrets
(4) 30mm 3 barrel cannons in 2 turrets
(1) ABL/COIL High Energy Laser in turret
(7) CIWS 20mm Phalanx turrets
(2) Cruise missiles up to the size of a SS-N-22
(1) 40mm MK-109 Grenade machine gun in nose turret
(1) 25mm 3 Barrel Gatling Cannon in nose turret
(2) 25mm Bushmaster MGs in 1 rear turret
(4) bomb bays that can carry a number of laser guided bombs, JDAMs, nuclear bombs, air to ground missiles,anti-ship missiles, nuclear or conventional depth charges, phoenix or amraam anti-air missiles
(48} AIM-9Z Sidewinder in 2 turret launchers
(8} FIM-92 Stinger in 4 swivel mounts
(6) Tomahawk Cruise Missiles
(6) Patriot PAC-3 or SA-102 Griffin modified SAMs in 2 launchers
(12) AGM-65 Mavericks
(24) Rockeye cluster bombs or regular bombs of simialr size, or (8} JDAM sized bombs on wing bomb racks
(4) AIM-120 AMRAAM
(12) AIM-132 ASRAAM
(4) AIM-54 Phoenix missle on 360 degree turret mount.
(2) ALMV/ASAT missiles
Counter Measures/Electronics
300 RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
40 MJU-53/B Infrared Decoy Flare
106 MJU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pod
2 AN/ALQ-178 ECM pods
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
Air Search Radome (Same as the one on the E-2C)


Condor Class Airship

The Condor Class represents an unprecendented new level of airborne force projection. Combining the ground assault capability of a Hyperion, with the aircraft carrying capability of a Trojan, the condor is the first airship which has the ability to rival oceangoing ships in effectiveness. As with all Phoenix Dynamix Airships, the Condor is a rigid airframe held aloft by the movement of the air over it's surfaces and hydrogen gas. The hydrogen is contained in several self-sealing cells which are packed in a kevlar/polymer composite skin which is wrapped around a lightwieght foamed titanium alloy skeleton. Fighters are porpelled off of the flight deck by catapult into the wind and take off is a breeeze . Landing is a bit tricky but it can be achived routinely with a little practice. The operation is much like in-flight refueling, the aircraft brings its self up to the back of the air ship and slowy accelrates/brakes until it is hovering over the landing area on the outer ramp. The arrestor hook(which has to be moved to the front) then captures a hook and the aircraft powers down, making contact with the deck. The hook winches the aircraft in further and the rear hatch is closed. There is a small storage area for aircraft supplies and munitons under the main deck and in the gondolas, the rest can be stored on top of the deck. There is enough room to re arm and refuel the aircraft for aother mission while they are all on deck. The pilots and crews can sleep, eat and relax in the comforts of the airliner style cabins and galley. Should a catostrophe occur the flight crew in the foward gondolas would detach and they can hold 2 additonal passengers. As for the rest of the crew, a number of 2 man "escape pods" eject through the top of the airships skin and then parachute to saftey. These pods float in water and are protected from NBC attacks as well. These pods are used only if the aircraft can not be launched in time off the deck.(2 pods are downward firing in the plane storage area on the deck.) A massive radar array is enclosed in the central airbag. It can track multiple airborne targets and act as the control AWACS for a larger air force operation, or simply for its fighter complement. If the radar detects incoming missiles, it carries a large variety and quantiy of counter measures to keep it protected from enemy fire. Should the skin of the airship be punctured, up to golf ball sized holes can be self-sealed by a special gel which runs through "viens" under the skin. It can also also refuel bombers, fighters, or another Airship via its in-flight refueling boom system. All on board batteries and fuel-cell systems are supplemented by intergrated solar panels which recharge all systems in-flight, saving on fuel.
Specifications
Crew: 60 (minimum), 77 (max)
[2 pilots, 2 co-pilots, 1 radio intercept officer, 1 navigator, 16 airship crew/weapons/AWACS operators, 2 boom operators , up to 36 aircraft pilots/support crew
Length: very long, longer than you!
Power Plant: (6) Turbofan jet engines, (2) rotating Gas Turbine powered ducted fans and (3) Gas Turbine powered ducted fans in tail
Range: 4,000+ miles unrefueled
Service Celing: 30,000 feet
Cruising Speed: 130mph (using rear turbine engines only)
Normal speed: 220mph
Maximum Safe Speed: 265mph
Maximum Speed: 400mph(not reccomended)
Aircraft:
(12) F-14 Tomcat or simmilar sized aircraft or
(22) A-4X Skyhawk or simmmilar sized aircraft or a mix
Weapons
(2) 155mm cannons in central underside turret
(8) CIWS 30mm Vulcan turrets
(16) AIM-9Z Sidewinders(2 mounted on each CIWS)
(12) AGM-65 Maverick, (10) AGM-84 Harpoon or 6 cruise missiles in fore and aft turret launchers
(6) AIM-54 Phoenix misslies in (2) right and left side turret mounts.
(56) unguided bombs, up to 500lbs ea.
Counter Measures/Electronics
(300) RR-129A/AL Chaff Countermeasures
(200) JU-51/B Advanced Infrared Flare
(1) anti-IR missile laser pod(blindsIR sensors)
(1) AN/AAQ-24 DIRCM pod
(1) AN/ALQ-178 ECM pod
ALR-56C Radar Warning Receiver
(1)Air Search Radome

Confederate Defense Directorate
[1] M-56 AC-1Z Radar Hub
[9] SA-202 Theater range, radar guided, surface-to-air missiles on (3) rotating, reloadable pedestal launchers.
[36] SA-101 ELR-SLAM Missiles on (1) compound turret with independent radar
[8] Radar guided 40mm Anti-Aircraft Artillery cannons mounted on (2) turrets(4 x 30mm gatling cannons)
[1] CIWS Turret with independent radar (30mm gatling gun)
[6] 3 point Phoenix Dynamix Full Spectrum Close-In Layered Active Shield (FCLAS) systems
- 1000 of these batteries are positioned all along the Confederate coastline


Undead doesn't mean they can't be stopped. Theyr'e still flesh and blood, so to speak. I'd urge you to reconsider. It will make for an interesting thread.

My Naval ORBAT
Will be updated as the war moves along

Current Strength: Three Fleets

30 Ironhammer Class Superdreadnoughts
60 Iowa class battleships (modernized version) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Iowa_(BB-61)#Reactivation_.281982.E2.80.931984.29)
90 Gerald R. Ford class Air Craft carriers
300 Ticonderoga class cruisers
360 Arleigh Burke class destroyers
480 Oliver Hazard Perry class Missile Frigates
540 Cyclone class Patrol boats
90 Coast Guard Cutters (Under Naval command)
15 Mercy class Hospital ships
180 America class amphibious assault ships each carrying 1600 Marines for a total of 24,000 Marines
120 Oilers
30 America class amphibious assault ships acting as helicopter carriers

Blackhelm you really should not be to worried about the Vampir. They are harder to stop but not impossible. My Rebel forces had to face them in "the Lords Rebellion" and the rebels gave them some good damage.

The Tarlagian Fleet off of Blackhelm.

12x Agincourt SDN
15x Argo BBH
15x Ragnarok BB
10x Tiger BCN
20x Majestic BCN
12x Alaska II BCL
1x Lexington CVC
25x Island CVN
20x Midway II CVA
5x Forrestal CVA
10x Yorktown CVN
15x Essex II CVS
12x Minotaur CVL
25x Dragon CVH
45x Tone CAG
20x Little Rock CLG
100x Deaver DDG
150x Fletcher FC
400x VLS Barges
20x SB-400 Missile Subs
60x SA-800 Attack Subs
30x SH-1000 Hydrogen Stealth Subs
100x SMS- AI operated attack/mine sweeping subs

50x FDR LSH
with support and troop transports for 250,000 troops
Aircraft are
Sea Gripen
Sea Draken
Su-33N
A-10N
Sea Cobra Attack choppers

Layer 1 - AAD-1 Anti-Air Balloons
Layer 2 - Carrier based interception (SuFB-8 Strike Phoenix)
Layer 3 - Air Fleet (Hyperion and Condor Class Airships and Trojan II Class Airbourne carriers containing MiG-29's, Mako Class bombers if on anti-shipping duty)
Layer 4 - Land based interception (MiG-31, Su-30)
Layer 5 - Sea Wall
Layer 6 - Confederate Defense Directorate
Layer 7 - Local SAM's and AAA

Attention all combatants: Layer 5 does not exist any longer. Carrier Based interception is reduced to two carriers, one of which is damaged.

My ORBAT has been updated to account for losses.

I'll finish posting the rest of my attacks later, as in tomorrow. I need to get some sleep.

OOC: Findan, my Khan's are based at Sacrament, which is well in land. We did such for this exact purpose. I don't think you can reach them. Sorry to seem like a prick, but I really don't want to lose things when I set things up to prevent it.

I corrected my targeting.

Blackhelm, my Naval air attack had already launched its missiles.

You need to be in range before you can fire, and I am going to pick you up as soon as possible.

I'm just letting y'all know that it may be a while before I can respond. RL is doing its best to kill me. I have a psychology exam on Wednesday, a statistics exam on Thursday, an economics midterm next Tuesday and an astronomy exam next Tuesday as well:mad:. Plus I have to find a job too. So I just want to apologize in advance.

Nero, I do not mind you being there, nor do I mind 6 (or even 8) days of warfare having passed, but if that's true, my ships would be somethingl ike 3500 km from Blackhelm's coastline, possibly as little as 3,000. Not sure he'd like that.

I have modified my post to remove all references to time to address your complaint.

On the subject of time. I would imagine this war is much older than 5-8 days. Given the massive nature of your home region (400 billion+ pop), it seems to me like it would take a lot longer than a week for your ships to travel to a nation outside of your home region. Like I said in the other thread, keeping track of time in these wars is a real challenge.

So far I do it by trying to cooperate with Blackhelm and trying to decide with him how much time has passed, that's why I was not really comfortable with moving on without him.

It looks like the thread died for a couple days, but came back with only BC and Allanea posting. Unless people return to make it a dogpile again, I'm going to sit out.

Bumping, tagging, and giving my 2 cents: (I'm hoping this be correct OOC, I threadsearched Alleana's posts...)
OOC: Blackhelm, AGAIN! FOR THE LOVE OF GOD USE A REAL ANTI-SHIP MISSILE!!!!! This time I will take rather more sizeable casualties from them but Jesus Christ consult Draftroom before writing your attacks! PLEASE!!!
Well...

It's not much worse than what I did with me naval assets...
(Unguided rockets in VLS)

And though he most likely already knows about that, his navy made a goof*, and it just isn't feasable for him to handwave his navy to be properly armed.

Best you can hope for is that you pound his nation senseless enough that it re-arms itself properly, which would make my subsequent invasion more difficult...

Oh, right, and Blackhelm, if I showcased a large plane that didn't need oil in order to fly, would you come to sabatoge it?

CURRENT ALLANEAN ORBAT

15 Elusive Class Battleships
60 Water Buffalo Class Troop Carriers
20 Torrent Class Arsenal Ships
68 Ark Royal Class Carriers
419 Type 165 Class Cruisers
180 Parish Class Destroyers
20 Foxbury Class AAV Carriers
70 Type 552 SSGN’s
150 Type 152 Patrol Cruisers
47 Type 176 Replenishment Tankers
80 Type 168 Cruisers
74 Pepperbox LSV’s
280 Type 38 Destroyers
200 Type 27 AA Frigates
200 Type 32 AAW Destroyers
300 Type 14 Fast Attack Craft
20 Tyrant Class B/G Missile Submarines
468 Type 07 Class Avisos


Total: 2,717 Ships

I thank Griffincrest for helping me put this together. He is an extremely cooperative roleplayer, though not necessarily a good tactician. :D

<Allanea|Palin08> what happened to those missile boats?
<Allanea|Palin08> you did not mention them
<Griffincrest> consider them gone.

As you see, the Sacrament missile boat fleet is dead. So are 300 Blackhelmian fighter planes, which blackhelm will confirm if needed.

Relief Fleet ORBAT

10 carrier battlegroups (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&p=1931767)
20 Cruiser Strike Squadrons (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&view=findpost&p=6994211)
20 Cruiser Escort Squadrons (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&p=6994213)
10 Type 31 Destroyers
20 Type 38 Destroyers
20 Questralia class cruisers
10 Sandakan class Battlecruisers
20 Admiral class cruisers
8 Argentine class Galleons
100 Type 522 SSNs
20 Resolution Class SSN's

Total Ships: 1558

ALLANEAN N ORBAT

60 Water Buffalo Class Troop Carriers
63 Ark Royal Class Carriers
419 Type 165 Class Cruisers
180 Parish Class Destroyers
20 Foxbury Class AAV Carriers
70 Type 552 SSGN’s
150 Type 152 Patrol Cruisers
30 Type 176 Replenishment Tankers
80 Type 168 Cruisers
49 Pepperbox LSVs
280 Type 38 Destroyers
200 Type 27 AA Frigates
200 Type 32 AAW Destroyers
285 Type 14 Fast Attack Craft
468 Type 07 Class Avisos


Total: 2,600 Ships

Relief Fleet ORBAT

10 carrier battlegroups (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&p=1931767)
20 Cruiser Strike Squadrons (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&view=findpost&p=6994211)
20 Cruiser Escort Squadrons (http://z12.invisionfree.com/Allanea/index.php?showtopic=4&view=findpost&p=6994213)
10 Type 31 Destroyers
20 Type 38 Destroyers
4 Argentine class Galleons
100 Type 522 SSNs
20 Resolution Class SSN's

Total Ships: 1508

OOC: Hey Allanea you mind if i join in?

OOC: Sure whatever

ORBAT for the main Allanean fleet, current after last losses


60 Water Buffalo Class Troop Carriers
63 Ark Royal Class Carriers
419 Type 165 Class Cruisers
180 Parish Class Destroyers
18 Foxbury Class AAV Carriers
70 Type 552 SSGN’s
150 Type 142 Patrol Cruisers
30 Type 176 Replenishment Tankers
80 Type 168 Cruisers
40 Pepperbox LSVs
280 Type 38 Destroyers
200 Type 27 AA Frigates
200 Type 32 AAW Destroyers
285 Type 14 Fast Attack Craft
345 Type 07 Class Avisos


Total: 2,436 Ships

ORBAT for the main Allanean fleet, current after last losses

60 Water Buffalo Class Troop Carriers
63 Ark Royal Class Carriers
419 Type 165 Class Cruisers
180 Parish Class Destroyers
18 Foxbury Class AAV Carriers
70 Type 552 SSGN’s
150 Type 142 Patrol Cruisers
30 Type 176 Replenishment Tankers
80 Type 168 Cruisers
40 Pepperbox LSVs
280 Type 38 Destroyers
200 Type 27 AA Frigates
200 Type 32 AAW Destroyers
285 Type 14 Fast Attack Craft
50 Type 07 Class Avisos

Total: 2,141 Ships

ORBAT for the main Allanean fleet, current after last losses


60 Water Buffalo Class Troop Carriers
63 Ark Royal Class Carriers
419 Type 165 Class Cruisers
180 Parish Class Destroyers
18 Foxbury Class AAV Carriers
70 Type 552 SSGN’s
150 Type 142 Patrol Cruisers
30 Type 176 Replenishment Tankers
80 Type 168 Cruisers
40 Pepperbox LSVs
170 Type 38 Destroyers
200 Type 27 AA Frigates
200 Type 32 AAW Destroyers
285 Type 14 Fast Attack Craft
50 Type 07 Class Avisos

Total: 2,091 Ships

Blackhelmian Navy ORBAT

8 superdreadnaughts
30 battleships
64 pocket battleships
97 cruisers
250 destroyers
448 frigates



Total Ships: 897

Blackhelmian Fleet

8 superdreadnaughts
30 battleships
60 pocket battleships
82 cruisers
230 destroyers
418 frigates

Total: 838 ships

Allanean Fleet


60 Water Buffalo Class Troop Carriers
53 Ark Royal Class Carriers
365 Type 165 Class Cruisers
180 Parish Class Destroyers
15 Foxbury Class AAV Carriers
70 Type 552 SSGN’s
150 Type 142 Patrol Cruisers
20 Type 176 Replenishment Tankers
80 Type 168 Cruisers
40 Pepperbox LSVs
170 Type 38 Destroyers
165 Type 27 AA Frigates
200 Type 32 AAW Destroyers
285 Type 14 Fast Attack Craft
50 Type 07 Class Avisos

Total: 1,968 Ships

Just to let mr. BC know I did offer help not to long ago... my offer still stands.

25% of my oil fields is an outrageous request, and the Corporation felt it best not to say anything on the matter.

I be quite willing to help also. But not without people like Raven Corps fighting also....

Emperor Pudu is helping

25% of my oil fields is an outrageous request, and the Corporation felt it best not to say anything on the matter.


Just bear in mind how Colderon works... your not repling may drive him to become and enemy... just tread carefully....lol

Do I Know ICly about the exchange?

Blackhelmian Fleet

8 superdreadnaughts
30 battleships
60 pocket battleships
82 cruisers
200 destroyers
418 frigates

Total: 838 ships

Yes but I going to watch and wait as I don't know him. I would prefer fighting with Raven Corps as it would be more protection for next to you Titians.

Do I Know ICly about the exchange?

about my offer... yea... it wasn't sent on encrypted channels...

Do I Know ICly about the exchange?

Not mine. As noting IC has happened yet.

Warmaster Likhodeevich's fleet ORBAT
20 Vengeance-class supercarriers
40 Glacier-class fleet carriers
50 Emden-class light carriers
56 Torrent-class arsenal ships
52 Helina-class battlecruisers
64 Carthage-class aide defense cruisers
96 Portlandia-class missile cruisers
48 Triara-class light cruisers
80 Swiftsure-class destroyers
64 Adari-class air defense destroyers
104 Atlantia-class missile destroyers
132 Champlain-class frigates
120 Lionfish-class missile frigates
40 Palace-class ballistic missile submarines
160 Port-class cruise missile submarines
440 Forthar-class quiet attack submarines

7,600 fixed-wing aircraft, 2,640 rotary-wing aircraft


Warmaster Likhodeevich's replenishment/transport fleet ORBAT
16 Emden-class light carriers
128 Atlantia-class missile destroyers
32 Adari-class air defense destroyers
40 Swiftsure-class destroyers
60 Lionfish-class frigates
48 Shrike-class amphibious assault carriers
120 amphibious landing ships
200 air-cushioned landing craft
200 large transport ships
200 fleet replenishment vessels
700 fuel and munitions ships
545 roll-on/roll-off cargo ships
400 large container ships
816 combat logistics ships
400 submarine tenders
90 minesweepers
100 mine patrol vessels

236 fixed-wing aircraft, 6,440 rotary-wing aircraft


Fleet Admiral Uglechenin's reserve fleet ORBAT
10 Vengeance-class supercarriers
20 Glacier-class fleet carriers
29 Emden-class light carriers
28 Torrent-class arsenal ships
26 Helina-class battlecruisers
32 Carthage-class aide defense cruisers
48 Portlandia-class missile cruisers
24 Triara-class light cruisers
80 Swiftsure-class destroyers
48 Adari-class air defense destroyers
92 Atlantia-class missile destroyers
66 Champlain-class frigates
90 Lionfish-class missile frigates
20 Palace-class ballistic missile submarines
80 Port-class cruise missile submarines
220 Forthar-class quiet attack submarines
100 large transport ships
100 fleet replenishment vessels
350 fuel and munitions ships
345 roll-on/roll-off cargo ships
200 large container ships
408 combat logistics ships
200 submarine tenders
45 mineweepers

3,728 fixed-wing aircraft, 3,070 rotary-wing aircraft

Fifth Fleet ORBAT
Samantha, a Quetzal class SDN and flagship of the fleet
12 Tyrant-class BBNs
8 Statesman-class BBCNs

24 Goddess-class BCNs
24 Deity-class BCGNs
72 Demigod-class CENs
72 Kami-class CGNs
12 Bodhisattva-class CCNs

144 Desert-class DDEs,
228 River-class DDs
144 Lake-class DDMs
372 Mountain-class DDGs

12 Cataclysm-class SSBNs
60 Trench-class SSKNs

36 City-class CVNs
24 Capitol-class CVENs
12 Assassin-class CVS

1620 Poltergeist Naval Bombers
2160 Shade Naval Fighters
540 Kelpie ASW VTOLs

5th Fleet ships: 1257
5th Fleet aircraft: 4320


6th Fleet ORBAT

Antonius, a Quetzal class SDN and flagship of the fleet
12 Tyrant-class BBNs
8 Statesman-class BBCNs

24 Goddess-class BCNs
24 Deity-class BCGNs
72 Demigod-class CENs
72 Kami-class CGNs
12 Bodhisattva-class CCNs

144 Desert-class DDEs,
228 River-class DDs
144 Lake-class DDMs
372 Mountain-class DDGs

12 Cataclysm-class SSBNs
60 Trench-class SSKNs

36 City-class CVNs
24 Capitol-class CVENs
12 Assassin-class CVS

1620 Poltergeist Naval Bombers
2160 Shade Naval Fighters
540 Kelpie ASW VTOLs

6th Fleet ships: 1257
6th Fleet aircraft: 4320


Total Ships: 2514
Total Aircraft: 8640

Sixth Army ORBAT later, cba to find it at the moment. Suffice to say it's about 750,000 combat troops strong and heavily mechanized. Also not detailed are the various logistical vessels, as I A) don't know enough about naval logistics to even begin, and B) I just can't be arsed.

Question:

Can Blackhelm please post an ORBAT with his airforce? Several hundred planes have been shot down throughout his RP. I have no idea what force remains, nor of the location of his bases.

Blackhelm, I sent you a TG a while ago with some questions. Did you ever get it?

Blackhelm, what kind of ABM and ASAT assets do you possess?

Blackhelm, what kind of ABM and ASAT assets do you possess?

Now generally this stuff isn't *that* effective, but given the apparent close in nature of the fighting (ewewew), either one of you could be chewed up bad by ground based weapons*.

*if the engagement is in engagement range of the ground station of course.

Also Allanea: RADIATORS (target them).

Also further evolution of the orbital battlespace will result in: http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08462/r428.gif

I should have pics of each vessel in my ORBAT soon...

Blackhelmian Fleet

8 superdreadnaughts
29 battleships
60 pocket battleships
82 cruisers
230 destroyers
418 frigates

Total: 837 ships

Allanean Fleet


60 Water Buffalo Class Troop Carriers
53 Ark Royal Class Carriers
365 Type 165 Class Cruisers
180 Parish Class Destroyers
15 Foxbury Class AAV Carriers
70 Type 552 SSGN’s
150 Type 142 Patrol Cruisers
20 Type 176 Replenishment Tankers
80 Type 168 Cruisers
40 Pepperbox LSVs
130 Type 38 Destroyers
100 Type 27 AA Frigates
200 Type 32 AAW Destroyers
285 Type 14 Fast Attack Craft
50 Type 07 Class Avisos

Total: 1,863 Ships

I was unaware that FT was allowed in this RP... And if so It will not allow me to participate....

I was unaware that FT was allowed in this RP... And if so It will not allow me to participate....

This is a PMT RP, yes. PMT is not MT, but if you choose to leave I will not hold it against you.

Very well. I am sorry to have wasted your time.

Blackhelmian Fleet

8 superdreadnaughts
29 battleships
60 pocket battleships
82 cruisers
46 destroyers
403 frigates

Total: 638 ships

Allanean Fleet


60 Water Buffalo Class Troop Carriers
53 Ark Royal Class Carriers
365 Type 165 Class Cruisers
180 Parish Class Destroyers
5 Foxbury Class AAV Carriers
70 Type 552 SSGN’s
150 Type 142 Patrol Cruisers
25 Type 176 Replenishment Tankers
80 Type 168 Cruisers
40 Pepperbox LSVs
170 Type 38 Destroyers
285 Type 14 Fast Attack Craft
50 Type 07 Class Avisos

Total: 1,383 Ships

ok is this PMT,MT,or FT kinda lost after raven corp posted

ok is this PMT,MT,or FT kinda lost after raven corp posted

The fighting in space is of a PMT nature. Ground warfare is MT to my knowledge.

Ok cool ok with PMT and MT dont want to deal with FT too.

All the fighting is PMT.

Actually, the Orbital plasma Laser is FT.... that isn't pluasible in 20 years... that is way out of PMT range which is 10 to 20 years post-date. At best he can vouch for a NFT rating... but he just barely makes that.

Actually, the Orbital plasma Laser is FT.... that isn't pluasible in 20 years... that is way out of PMT range which is 10 to 20 years post-date. At best he can vouch for a NFT rating... but he just barely makes that.

Actually no, its PMT. I don't know where you got your tech level rating from, but I can tell you its a HELL of a lot more fluid then that.

Please feel free to back your criticisms up.

Actually no, its PMT. I don't know where you got your tech level rating from, but I can tell you its a HELL of a lot more fluid then that.

Please feel free to back your criticisms up.

Halo is a NFT timeframe and the best the humans have is Orbital MAC's. Your doing something that is way to powerfull way to early, and as an '03 nation you should know that. How many Orbital Plasma Laser stations do you for see being in space anytime within our, or even your grand-childerns lifetimes?... probaly none.

Halo is a NFT timeframe and the best the humans have is Orbital MAC's. Your doing something that is way to powerfull way to early, and as an '03 nation you should know that. How many Orbital Plasma Laser stations do you for see being in space anytime within our, or even your grand-childerns lifetimes?... probaly none.

Halo is also extremely unrealistic and doesn't make any sense in its weapons.

For Third Spanish States, the concept of warfare in Space was done quite well by Heinlein, and they don't mind some overkill. In fact their Orbital Forces primary "spaceships" are just unmanned space rockets with nuclear warheads, which can re-entry atmosphere as well.

As for the lazorz, they are strictly Far PMT at best, and thus, I don't see why not just bring mechas and power armors to the conflict.

Halo is a NFT timeframe and the best the humans have is Orbital MAC's. Your doing something that is way to powerfull way to early, and as an '03 nation you should know that. How many Orbital Plasma Laser stations do you for see being in space anytime within our, or even your grand-childerns lifetimes?... probaly none.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

For Third Spanish States, the concept of warfare in Space was done quite well by Heinlein, and they don't mind some overkill. In fact their Orbital Forces primary "spaceships" are just unmanned space rockets with nuclear warheads, which can re-entry atmosphere as well.

As for the lazorz, they are strictly Far PMT at best, and thus, I don't see why not just bring mechas and power armors to the conflict.

Not just lasers...Orbital Plasma Lasers....

Not just lasers...Orbital Plasma Lasers....

No. I'm using fusion plasma to pump the gain medium. This has been done. This is not some stupid bullshit technobabble from the anus of George Lucas.

Can I use teleporters in MT? It has been done (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3576594.stm).

Frankly, orbital stations and weapons have always been a hallmark of PMT. If you're a PMT nation that doesn't have some military presence in orbital space, you've got a backwater nation with a crapass military.

As long as I've been around, the benchmark for FT has more or less always been FTL, not space.

I have no problem with Orbital Weapons... its the type of weapons I am concerned about...It one thing to luanch missiles from an orbital platform... it another to shoot lasers...

I have no problem with Orbital Weapons... its the type of weapons I am concerned about...It one thing to luanch missiles from an orbital platform... it another to shoot lasers...

Uh, not really.

The only problem with using lasers from orbital platforms is the fact that the beam diffuses as it passes through the atmosphere. Other than maintaining focus and beam consistency, there is nothing wrong with lasers in a PMT setting.

Lasers are decidedly MT, and are easily possible in PMT. See THEL and other military applications. An orbital platform could simply use an upgunned version of the above, use a nuclear pumped laser like Izistan seems to be suggesting, or, for the most fun, use a bomb pumped laser.

EDIT:
The only problem with using lasers from orbital platforms is the fact that the beam diffuses as it passes through the atmosphere. Other than maintaining focus and beam consistency, there is nothing wrong with lasers in a PMT setting.
Quite. However, since Izi/ZMI/whoever teh fuck is using the things seems to be employing them against other orbital targets, this is a nonissue.

Lasers are decidedly MT, and are easily possible in PMT. See THEL and other military applications. An orbital platform could simply use an upgunned version of the above, use a nuclear pumped laser like Izistan seems to be suggesting, or, for the most fun, use a bomb pumped laser.

EDIT:

Quite. However, since Izi/ZMI/whoever teh fuck is using the things seems to be employing them against other orbital targets, this is a nonissue.

Quite right.

It's not like there aren't ways to reduce the effectiveness of a laser against naval or ground targets anyway. Cloud cover and smoke can limit targeting ability or accuracy, and perhaps broadcasting chaff or sand or ash into the atmosphere above the targeted assets could diffuse the beam to the point that it's ineffective for anything beyond giving the enemy sunburns and cancer. QQing about tech disparities is lame. lern2tactics

It's not like there aren't ways to reduce the effectiveness of a laser against naval or ground targets anyway. Cloud cover and smoke can limit targeting ability or accuracy, and perhaps broadcasting chaff or sand or ash into the atmosphere above the targeted assets could diffuse the beam to the point that it's ineffective for anything beyond giving the enemy sunburns and cancer. QQing about tech disparities is lame. lern2tactics

But...Why would I be using a laser against ground targets when I can throw terminally guided hypersonic projectiles at them? :confused:

Lasers are faster. And burn things. Without breaking surrounding things. :D

But...Why would I be using a laser against ground targets when I can throw terminally guided hypersonic projectiles at them? :confused:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool

It seems kind of silly to burst into an existing MT/early PMT role-play with super uber space assets well beyond the technology level the existing participants are using. The tech wanking has already caused a participant to quit. Maybe you ought to reconsider.

Sure, there are lasers in modern times. However, there are no massive 8 kiloton structures in space, and there won't be anytime soon. Same goes with 200 megwatt orbital lasers, zero g nuclear reactors, etc. If all that stuff is coming into play, I may as well introduce a death star.

It seems kind of silly to burst into an existing MT/early PMT role-play with super uber space assets well beyond the technology level the existing participants are using. The tech wanking has already caused a participant to quit. Maybe you ought to reconsider.

Sure, there are lasers in modern times. However, there are no massive 8 kiloton structures in space, and there won't be anytime soon. Same goes with 200 megwatt orbital lasers, zero g nuclear reactors, etc. If all that stuff is coming into play, I may as well introduce a death star.

Have you even read the RP?

It seems kind of silly to burst into an existing MT/early PMT role-play with super uber space assets well beyond the technology level the existing participants are using. The tech wanking has already caused a participant to quit. Maybe you ought to reconsider.

Sure, there are lasers in modern times. However, there are no massive 8 kiloton structures in space, and there won't be anytime soon. Same goes with 200 megwatt orbital lasers, zero g nuclear reactors, etc. If all that stuff is coming into play, I may as well introduce a death star.

The assets being used are child's play for any PMT nation and some MT nations. The only reason that there are no large orbital facilities in the real world right now is the same reason that no nation in the real world has done anything in space in forty years. There's yet to be any financial motivation for expansion into space. If there were resources to fight over and protect in space, then there would be significant military assets in space.

In PMT people have begun exploiting space and have things to protect. Thus fully operational battle stations.

The assets being used are child's play for any PMT nation and some MT nations. The only reason that there are no large orbital facilities in the real world right now is the same reason that no nation in the real world has done anything in space in forty years. There's yet to be any financial motivation for expansion into space. If there were resources to fight over and protect in space, then there would be significant military assets in space.

In PMT people have begun exploiting space and have things to protect. Thus fully operational battle stations.

Ships rather.

Just wait. My Secret Nazi Moon Base (TM) complete with Friggin' Laser (C) will be fully operation momentarily. :P

Just wait. My Secret Nazi Moon Base (TM) complete with Friggin' Laser (C) will be fully operation momentarily. :P

You'd better hurry up before the renegade Teddy Ruxpins blow up the shield generator.

At any rate please see the post where Allanea states that this is a PMT RP. That should settle the question right there.

Look, Ravencorps. If you don't like this so much, you can just stop posting. I again express my apologies for wasting your time.

I'm the one whom the beam cannon is aimed at and I'm all right with it.

I not about to join a RP where I have lasers raining down at me simply because that ruins the fun of regluar forces(naval,airforce or ground) fighting when you can just wiped out the enemy forces with "superguns" from the sky.

I not about to join a RP where I have lasers raining down at me simply because that ruins the fun of regluar forces(naval,airforce or ground) fighting when you can just wiped out the enemy forces with "superguns" from the sky.

If you're not creative enough to deal with a simple laser, you're a shitty roleplayer anyway and wouldn't contribute anything anyway.

i not about to join a rp where i have lasers raining down at me simply because that ruins the fun of regluar forces(naval,airforce or ground) fighting when you can just wiped out the enemy forces with "superguns" from the sky.

...you aren't even in the rp.

If you're not creative enough to deal with a simple laser, you're a shitty roleplayer anyway and wouldn't contribute anything anyway.

Right...lets insult everyone....

I know how to fight with naval/airforce/ground units. And if the RPs posts in the actual RP is anything to go by then I should be fine. If I wanted to stop a laser,I could google something up. But lasers pouring from the sky is quite a silly idea anyway. And if lasers are so easy to deal with. What is the point of them anyway?

...you aren't even in the rp.

Yes,because I waiting to see who else is dog piling in. But I was gonna write up a post today after I worked out a few details. But now with this laser thing and The Raven Corps withdrawning I not so sure. And as a former ally of BC. It would be my duty to help him.....


And the keyword in my former post was join.....

...The war is basically over by this point.

...The war is basically over by this point.

No it isn't.It still a naval battle. Once that's over. It becomes a ground war. Unless of course you shoot everything with your magic laser.

I'm sorry, who are you?

No it isn't.It still a naval battle. Once that's over. It becomes a ground war. Unless of course you shoot everything with your magic laser.

Did you miss the whole "surrender" thing?

Me and Doc intervened on ONE occasion, neither Griffencrest or Allanea had a problem with this. In fact, both of them were engaged with PMT spacecraft in space, etc. Blah blah blah. Hell, look what I just dug up from this very thread!
PMT. Both me and Blackhelm are.


Seriously. Have you read the RP? Its not that fucking hard to do.

No it isn't.It still a naval battle. Once that's over. It becomes a ground war. Unless of course you shoot everything with your magic laser.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/amongtheomegas/NO_U.jpg

plz.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v607/amongtheomegas/NO_U.jpg

plz.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v186/Nightbane/1171356610442.jpg

Grow the hell up. Of course I have. I read all of it from the very beginning.


The real question is have you guys read the whole OOC thread? The main question here is if these lasers are even PMT. You guys are trying to act like a bunch of High class know it alls assholes. Grow up.

I wait for a more mature comment from Allanea. I mean come on, you guys are probably the types of losers who suck in RL so you pertend to be big and great on the internet. Grow up and learn to treat people with respect.

And that picture is epic fail.

Grow the hell up. Of course I have. I read all of it from the very beginning.


The real question is have you guys read the whole OOC thread? The main question here is if these lasers are even PMT. You guys are trying to act like a bunch of High class know it alls assholes. Grow up.

I wait for a more mature comment from Allanea. I mean come on, you guys are probably the types of losers who suck in RL so you pertend to be big and great on the internet. Grow up and learn to treat people with respect.

And that picture is epic fail.

And once again you show yourself incapable of reading. It has been stated repeatedly that lasers are in fact MT. That they are PMT isn't even up for discussion.

Blackhelm: small quibble with your last post. You seem to have missed the torpedo attack by my subs. ;)

And once again you show yourself incapable of reading. It has been stated repeatedly that lasers are in fact MT. That they are PMT isn't even up for discussion.

Yes but not the kind that Isiztan is trying to use. The method he is going about to use his laser is pushing the PMT realm limits and is borderline NFT. Laser are MT.. but not offensive orbital ones. Sure nations in RL are trying to develop a realistic anti-missile laser attached to an air-craft, but lets give that system about 20 years of development time to become moderately effective, now lets try and apply that principle to an Orbital platform, give or take another 50 years to make that moderately effective and we have how many years? (Answer): 70 years for MODERATELY EFFECTIVE. This gets you maybe enough power to attack small orbital satellites.

While most PMT nations agree that Orbital platforms are very reasonable, certain types are far more acceptable, and feasible such as:

Orbital EMP PULSE missiles Deployment
Orbital Nuclear missile Deployment
Orbital Missile Battery

And with a prior mentions point an orbital laser would simply not be able to maintain prime energy while trying to get through the earths atmosphere as the laser would have to fight with atmospheric particles and debris before reaching its target, though it would only seem like a split second before it made contact the constant disruption by Atmospheric particles and diminishing power output due to distance covered along with moderate interference from other energies from the area would cause the laser to give nothing more then a bad sun burn.

Right, lets make this perfectly clear.

Izi. Is not. Using lasers. In atmo.

The main problem with lasers at the moment is dealing with thermal blooming caused by the atmosphere. In fact, this has largely been solved, judging by the plethora of laser defense systems in service, from THEL to YAL-1 to the ATL to the prototype HELLADS system to be mounted on the F35. Arguing that they aren't possible in PMT is silly when WE HAVE THEM RIGHT FREAKING NOW. Even more silly is arguing against using them in space, where their main downfall is completely and utterly removed.

Yes but not the kind that Isiztan is trying to use. The method he is going about to use his laser is pushing the PMT realm limits and is borderline NFT. Laser are MT.. but not offensive orbital ones. Sure nations in RL are trying to develop a realistic anti-missile laser attached to an air-craft, but lets give that system about 20 years of development time to become moderately effective, now lets try and apply that principle to an Orbital platform, give or take another 50 years to make that moderately effective and we have how many years? (Answer): 70 years for MODERATELY EFFECTIVE. This gets you maybe enough power to attack small orbital satellites.

While most PMT nations agree that Orbital platforms are very reasonable, certain types are far more acceptable, and feasible such as:

Orbital EMP PULSE missiles Deployment
Orbital Nuclear missile Deployment
Orbital Missile Battery

And with a prior mentions point an orbital laser would simply not be able to maintain prime energy while trying to get through the earths atmosphere as the laser would have to fight with atmospheric particles and debris before reaching its target, though it would only seem like a split second before it made contact the constant disruption by Atmospheric particles and diminishing power output due to distance covered along with moderate interference from other energies from the area would cause the laser to give nothing more then a bad sun burn.
Building a high power laser into an orbital platform or ship would be far easier than getting a similar system into an aircraft. Aircraft have to be built very light due to the nature of their locomotion. A space based platform doesn't have any weight or size restrictions. More importantly, current political climates prohibit using nuclear reactors in aircraft, further limiting airborne systems. Such a restriction does not exist in NS. It would be expensive to build such a system in orbit, but cost is the only inhibiting factor. For a NS PMT nation, even that factor is for the most part nullified.

Building a high power laser into an orbital platform or ship would be far easier than getting a similar system into an aircraft. Aircraft have to be built very light due to the nature of their locomotion. A space based platform doesn't have any weight or size restrictions. More importantly, current political climates prohibit using nuclear reactors in aircraft, further limiting airborne systems. Such a restriction does not exist in NS. It would be expensive to build such a system in orbit, but cost is the only inhibiting factor. For a NS PMT nation, even that factor is for the most part nullified.

I never mentioned once the cost being a factor. I never Rped with the economy in mind. And I never said that building a laser in space was impossible. A Japanese company is trying to develop a satellite that can fire a low energy solar laser through the atmosphere by 2030. so building a laser is not impossible, however, my point is that for the kind of laser Izistan is trying to employ is pushing even the PMT standard of what is feasible in the PMT timeframe, which in all honesty originally used to be 20-50 years in the future. I would personally consider his means of charging and employing his laser as NFT. A plasma charging system is atleast 60 years out because the best we have to show for plasma is a split second burst of plasma. And that requires a huge facility to accomplish.

Japans Orbital bombardment idea. (http://dvice.com/archives/2007/09/japan_turns_orbital_bombardmen.php)

Grow the hell up. Of course I have. I read all of it from the very beginning.


The real question is have you guys read the whole OOC thread? The main question here is if these lasers are even PMT. You guys are trying to act like a bunch of High class know it alls assholes. Grow up.

I wait for a more mature comment from Allanea. I mean come on, you guys are probably the types of losers who suck in RL so you pertend to be big and great on the internet. Grow up and learn to treat people with respect.

And that picture is epic fail.

YES. AND ONCE AGAIN YOU. ARE. NOT. IN. THIS. ROLEPLAY.

I, Allanea, Griffencrest, hell, 99% of I.I, does not give a fuck about your definitions of PMT. Go back to NSG and cry about draftroom oppression there. No one gives a damn here.

I never mentioned once the cost being a factor. I never Rped with the economy in mind. And I never said that building a laser in space was impossible. A Japanese company is trying to develop a satellite that can fire a low energy solar laser through the atmosphere by 2030. so building a laser is not impossible, however, my point is that for the kind of laser Izistan is trying to employ is pushing even the PMT standard of what is feasible in the PMT timeframe, which in all honesty originally used to be 20-50 years in the future. I would personally consider his means of charging and employing his laser as NFT. A plasma charging system is atleast 60 years out because the best we have to show for plasma is a split second burst of plasma. And that requires a huge facility to accomplish.

Japans Orbital bombardment idea. (http://dvice.com/archives/2007/09/japan_turns_orbital_bombardmen.php)

Have you ever stopped to think that what real life governments have done and are trying to do isn't a good benchmark? If you haven't noticed, no government has had the balls to make a real effort for any technology since the late 60s. NS isn't like the real world. People have more balls, more money to throw around, and no NIMBY or PC BS to stop progress.

What Izistan is doing is more accurately pushing the boundary of MT, not PMT.

You are probably the most ignorant '03 nation I have encountered in some time. I.I. has ( for the most part ) always used theoretical development phases of RL the determine the feasibility of PMT technology. The general rule of thumb is:

MT= here and now feasible
PMT= Feasible in the near or kinda-near future
NFT= far future, pre- mass space exploration
FT= Star Wars

This has been the predominant use of the terms in our 5 years of playing. How you could miss understand that is beyond me.

I can't believe I'm getting defended by Nightbane of all people...

You are probably the most ignorant '03 nation I have encountered in some time. I.I. has ( for the most part ) always used theoretical development phases of RL the determine the feasibility of PMT technology. The general rule of thumb is:

MT= here and now feasible
PMT= Feasible in the near or kinda-near future
NFT= far future, pre- mass space exploration
FT= Star Wars

This has been the predominant use of the terms in our 5 years of playing. How you could miss understand that is beyond me.

Says the guy arguing about the feasibility of lasers. Lasers being MT is not up for debate. If a government wanted to build an orbital laser weapon right now, they could do it. It wouldn't even take that long if they were willing to cut the bullshit and make it a major priority like the moon landings were in the 60s and the bomb was in the 40s.

Again, the lack of balls shown by real governments has no affect on the viability of technology in the here and now.

Holy crap get off the subject that I'm trying to debate the feasibility of laser! Lasers exist! happy. But not the ones trying to be employed in the battle.

But fine...remain obstinate to reason and proper use of PM Technology; I'm not the one who will seen as wrong in the matter, atleast by players who understand the concepts devised to keep this kind of thing from happening.

And yet here you are arguing with everyone else in this thread save one little kid that thinks that his participation in the roleplay is desired, needed, or for that matter even important.

I seem to recall this same kind of debate happening almost four years ago when Vaad was kicked out of Haven. He didn't think that ABLs were viable in MT despite the hateful glare of reality. Gee, where is he now?

Burning in self inflicted bad design hell. Hopefully.

Moving swiftly on, Smythii interdiction has been completed our part in this has been both effective and for the most part is over. Further it has been accepted by the major participants of the roleplay.

Hobbeebia ..do not start an argument with the denzines of #D upon the application of weapons systems in a PMT orbital combat. All the participants save the tertiary party of fighters 4 u are not only draftroom users but agree generally on what and what is not PMT. If they did not they would be themselves screaming blue bloody murder.

YES. AND ONCE AGAIN YOU. ARE. NOT. IN. THIS. ROLEPLAY.

Wow....just wow. You mean the fact that I decided to post in the OOC thread about a problem I had with the RP before jumping into the RP and then complain about this problem is childish of me? Geee.....how selfish am I trying not to clutter up the main RP.

And yet here you are arguing with everyone else in this thread save one little kid that thinks that his participation in the roleplay is desired, needed, or for that matter even important.

I seem to recall this same kind of debate happening almost four years ago when Vaad was kicked out of Haven. He didn't think that ABLs were viable in MT despite the hateful glare of reality. Gee, where is he now?

REAL mature...if you stuck your head up your ass anymore you be kissing your brain....I a "kid" according to you and yet I can mange to act mature,unlike say you?

I mean who to says what is important and what is not expect for a few self-important jerks.(See how much fun it is to throw words around?)

And Vaad problemly got sick of your guys immature,iligocial attuide. I mean a bird can fly in MT. So I guess that means a human can also. What you disagree with me? Well I know,I stick my head into the sand and yell loudly until everyone gets sicks of trying to talk to me.

Once again, Real Mature.

Burning in self inflicted bad design hell. Hopefully.

Moving swiftly on, Smythii interdiction has been completed our part in this has been both effective and for the most part is over. Further it has been accepted by the major participants of the roleplay.

Hobbeebia ..do not start an argument with the denzines of #D upon the application of weapons systems in a PMT orbital combat. All the participants save the tertiary party of fighters 4 u are not only draftroom users but agree generally on what and what is not PMT. If they did not they would be themselves screaming blue bloody murder.

Yes because if their draftroom users and always agree with each other about what best for them then they must no longer be humans who can err or become basi and are obv. a shining beacon for us to all follow....:rolleyes:

But whatever. Be stuck up like that. You find nobody will want to RP with you.

But whatever. Be stuck up like that. You find nobody will want to RP with you.

This has been said many a time and many a place. But surprisingly enough (or not), as the faces that say this fade away, we still persist.

This has been said many a time and many a place. But surprisingly enough (or not), as the faces that say this fade away, we still persist.

Yeah probably. I mean when I moved on from this game,live my life,hang with my friends and grow as a person. You still be their typing out grand battles that exist merely in their creator mind. People are people and some won't care how you act. But if you always act like this then I can't see how you get along with newcomers. It reminds me of a clique. And what do you do when that clique freaks at whoever isn't like them or doesn't agree with them? They ingore them and the cluesless masses will follow because of their status symol(03 nation,Haven nation etc.) and eventally people will become tired of aguring over noting and get on with their lifes. While you guys are lefted to contend with the new people that come along and disagree with you. I mean wouldn't you think their a reason why they do all the time? So many different people,from all walks of life and experiences?

Yes because if their draftroom users and always agree with each other about what best for them then they must no longer be humans who can err or become basi and are obv. a shining beacon for us to all follow....:rolleyes:

But whatever. Be stuck up like that. You find nobody will want to RP with you.

It would greatly help your cause if you typed coherently you know.

Possibly because the new people are largely clueless and really need to spend more time reading their Clausewitz?

But whatever. Be stuck up like that. You find nobody will want to RP with you.

Let me explain something to you.

RP on nationstates is a mutual-consent, free-form thing.

Me and Blackhelm, the principal combatants in this thread, both accept orbital laser platforms as viable in PMT.

We do not care.

Every other person who is actually a participant in the thread accepts orbital laser platforms as viable in PMT.

They don't care that Izistan is using these, either.

Yet you, a person who has yet to make any IC posts in the thread come in lecturing us about what we should use in our own RP? Why? Why are you wasting your time like this?

Even if you were a Ph.D. from Harvard, waving a 500-page book that would prove the impossibilityo f such weapons, we would still be within our rights to use them in our own thread.

There's no POINT to this discussion, because it affects nobody and nobody cares.

I mean when I moved on from this game
Yes, please.



And if the draftroom crowd is a clique, then we're the most dysfunctional and infighting clique out there, aside possibly Seaquest and his clique. (himself)



Please, someone lock this.

Please, someone lock this.
More accurately, prune this. Some of us are still on topic, you know.

Yeah probably. I mean when I moved on from this game,live my life,hang with my friends and grow as a person. You still be their typing out grand battles that exist merely in their creator mind. People are people and some won't care how you act. But if you always act like this then I can't see how you get along with newcomers. It reminds me of a clique. And what do you do when that clique freaks at whoever isn't like them or doesn't agree with them? They ingore them and the cluesless masses will follow because of their status symol(03 nation,Haven nation etc.) and eventally people will become tired of aguring over noting and get on with their lifes. While you guys are lefted to contend with the new people that come along and disagree with you. I mean wouldn't you think their a reason why they do all the time? So many different people,from all walks of life and experiences?

Orrite, I forgot it was impossible to maintain a real life as well as play NS and be in #d. Oh, sorry, I maintain a 4.0 GPR at Texas A&M, build bonfire, and participate in a number of other activities known well among college students, like drinking, partying, etc.

Why should someone complain if I decide to approve of flying saucers that shoot death lazerz of doom in a RP that I started?

And PMT, MT, FT... they're primarily labels do to prevent one-sided competitive RPing. Nothing forbids someone from combining stuff from them, as nothing forbids someone o not participate of a RP because of it.

My only complain is about the lack of powered exoskeletons in this RP. It could, if properly used, make things more interesting.

It would greatly help your cause if you typed coherently you know.

Yes,you are quite right that this is a great handicap that I have and all that I can wonder is if those that I debating with will use that against me. It is my fault as I hadn't taken the time out to deal with it effectly. And those I do not use that as a excuse. I am hearing impaired and such I grew up hearing words spoke differently and I less able to sound out words or format proper sentances in my speech and such writing. As if your like me you write as those you talk.

My only complain is about the lack of powered exoskeletons in this RP.
Don't worry, my race of nuclear supermen will be making an appearance if I ever get around to making landfall. ;)

Yes,you are quite right that this is a great handicap that I have and all that I can wonder is if those that I debating with will use that against me. It is my fault as I hadn't taken the time out to deal with it effectly. And those I do not use that as a excuse. I am hearing impaired and such I grew up hearing words spoke differently and I less able to sound out words or format proper sentances in my speech and such writing. As if your like me you write as those you talk.
L3rn 2 sp3llch3k, n00b.

Yes I am done long ago. I was simply finishing my respond against those who attacked me. I see noting wrong with the lasers being used in this RP as I not RPing in it. I simply posted here in the first place to express my dislike of the lasers in a thread I was going to post in. That issue has long ago been resloved. I am sorry for cluttering up the OOC thread,which is ironic as I posted here so not to clutter up the IC.


And Kampfers I just saying that you will stil include NS in those activites while most people will moved on without NS in their lifes. I didn't wish to come arcoss like that and if I did then I am sorry.

Allanea,yeah that issue been resloved long ago. I simply was finishing a dissucssion which worng or right took place here in this thread. Sorry. I stop posting here now.


L3rn 2 sp3llch3k, n00b.

Thats helps in checking grammar how again?

I was simply finishing my resond agaisnt those who attacked me.

http://xs233.xs.to/xs233/08463/s579.gif

I was simply finishing my resond agaisnt those who attacked me.

Thats helps in checking grammar how again?

lern2english http://www.animationinsider.net/forums/custom/global/additional_smilies/eng101.gif

*Sigh* Some people are born rude I suppose. Anyway I posting in the Mod Help section to see if they prune this thread of this debate so things can carry on as normal. Have a great day and all that stuft.

*Sigh* Some people are born rude I suppose. Anyway I posting in the Mod Help section to see if they prune this thread of this debate so things can carry on as normal. Have a great day and all that stuft.
It's a forum, forum goers get quite hostile when their bubble of consistancy is threatened.*

You are no exception.

This thread will continue as normal regardless of whether it gets pruned or not. (though massive prunes across the board may free-up a gB of data or so on the servers...)

*NSD was for creating mutually-agreed upon standards for RP purposes. Finding loopholes for jumping standards is somewhat of a trial+error thing.

And yes, there is a standard-tech for "Gavin-lovers", steampunkt, "Friggin lazer wielding PA infantry", alternate late 19th century, "we has no [vital resource we take for granted IRL]", etc.

It's a forum, forum goers get quite hostile when their bubble of consistancy is threatened.

You are no exception.

This thread will continue as normal regardless of whether it gets pruned or not. (though massive prunes across the board may free-up a gB of data or so on the servers...)

A) So I noticed

B) Just trying to be helpful.

and

C)The issue been resloved. But thanks anyway.

No really,thanks. Because I figure that might sound rude and you are being helpful.


Ok,I get what your saying then. Their are standards in the NS RP communtiy for techongly no matter how crazy or farfecth it may seen and that it a ongoing process and people are bound to test the limits to see what they can get away with. But eventally NS will get it. Thanks Hurtful Thoughts.

Says the guy arguing about the feasibility of lasers. Lasers being MT is not up for debate. If a government wanted to build an orbital laser weapon right now, they could do it. It wouldn't even take that long if they were willing to cut the bullshit and make it a major priority like the moon landings were in the 60s and the bomb was in the 40s.

Again, the lack of balls shown by real governments has no affect on the viability of technology in the here and now.

I disagree. There are two glaring problems with lasers in space as MT for weapons. First and foremost is dispersion of the beam, you're going through a lot of atmosphere, the beam will disperse like a flashlight. That's going to seriously affect the actual power of the weapon. Which brings me to point two, power. Consider that the power needed for such a laser to both make it through the atmosphere with any damaging power, and have enough said damaging power to do any damage to things worth using an orbital laser on, you're going to need power measuring beyond megawatts. It would not surprise me if you needed a gigawatt. You could solar power it, but solar arrays make about 1kWh per square meter, if you're lucky up in space maybe 10kWh per square meter. That's 100 square kilometers of solar panel to power your laser. Nuclear power? Forget it, that would weigh too much period. And that's assuming your laser itself is magicly light enough to get into orbit (Which it won't be due to being robust and able to last up there, and not destroy itself when firing).

So no, space based lasers for anything but attacking other space assets, and lightly protected ones at that, is not MT. Probably not even PMT. Your only hope is a nuclear pumped laser, and just watch what happens when you use one of those, hello massive nuclear retaliation and frying huge tracts of power grids.

I disagree. There are two glaring problems with lasers in space as MT for weapons. First and foremost is dispersion of the beam, you're going through a lot of atmosphere, the beam will disperse like a flashlight. That's going to seriously affect the actual power of the weapon. Which brings me to point two, power. Consider that the power needed for such a laser to both make it through the atmosphere with any damaging power, and have enough said damaging power to do any damage to things worth using an orbital laser on, you're going to need power measuring beyond megawatts. It would not surprise me if you needed a gigawatt. You could solar power it, but solar arrays make about 1kWh per square meter, if you're lucky up in space maybe 10kWh per square meter. That's 100 square kilometers of solar panel to power your laser. Nuclear power? Forget it, that would weigh too much period. And that's assuming your laser itself is magicly light enough to get into orbit (Which it won't be due to being robust and able to last up there, and not destroy itself when firing).

So no, space based lasers for anything but attacking other space assets, and lightly protected ones at that, is not MT. Probably not even PMT. Your only hope is a nuclear pumped laser, and just watch what happens when you use one of those, hello massive nuclear retaliation and frying huge tracts of power grids.

Hi, welcome to NationStates. You must be new here.

Hi, welcome to NationStates. You must be new here.

Yep, four years and 2500 posts of new.

I'll post an updated ORBAT for Fleet Admiral Uglechenin's new force eventually - he's gaining some combat ships and ditching the majority of the logistics and transport stuff, and the replenishment fleet for the Warmaster is gaining it. I just don't feel like working all that out right now...

If you need to know, ask, otherwise, I'll post it sometime before combat starts.

Yep, four years and 2500 posts of new.

Sorry, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

So, in this case, are you illiterate or just stupid? It's pretty clear that you haven't actually read anything in this thread.

Sorry, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

So, in this case, are you illiterate or just stupid? It's pretty clear that you haven't actually read anything in this thread.

Wow, two posts in and you're already throwing out insults.

I don't have to read this thread, I couldn't care less about it. My problem came with the post I quoted. Whether or not you want to accecpt reality when it comes to lasers has, as far as I'm concerned, nothing to do with whatever Allanea wants to do here. You claimed lasers could be done with enough money in MT, they can't, end of story. You want to throw around insults at that go right ahead.

Edit: Having taken a brief read back, now I'm trying to figure out how you went from "Lasers are PMT only" and knowing the problems, to claiming "Lasers are MT". As that's a logical turnaround at best.

Lasers are the bread and butter of PMT space combat. Regardless, they're still perfectly viable in MT with enough investment. They're by far not the cheapest route, but if someone were to actually dedicate the resources to them, they could easily get orbital laser platforms in MT. If you think that they can't be done, you're either not very creative, stupid, or both.

Remember, we're not talking "Your city is now plate glass." lasers. We're talking "Scinfaxi is firing burst missiles! Climb, nuggets! Climb!" lasers.

Lasers are the bread and butter of PMT space combat. Regardless, they're still perfectly viable in MT with enough investment. They're by far not the cheapest route, but if someone were to actually dedicate the resources to them, they could easily get orbital laser platforms in MT. If you think that they can't be done, you're either not very creative, stupid, or both.

Remember, we're not talking "Your city is now plate glass." lasers. We're talking "Scinfaxi is firing burst missiles! Climb, nuggets! Climb!" lasers.

I never said you can't do it. I just said that doing it with a laser which will be effective is not possible. Laser counters in space-space warfare is a fairly easy and cheap thing to do, making powerful enough lasers to counter them at costs and weight that make them viable for more then a few numbers, not so easy.

And let's not forget you start talking lasers, you start getting into the realm of "OMG ORBITAL LASER CANNON ATTACK SHIPS", which, no matter how much you want to argue, is impossible in MT. Unless you're dropping the satellite itself on the ships.

I never said you can't do it. I just said that doing it with a laser which will be effective is not possible. Laser counters in space-space warfare is a fairly easy and cheap thing to do, making powerful enough lasers to counter them at costs and weight that make them viable for more then a few numbers, not so easy.

Oh really? What do we have here?

You claimed lasers could be done with enough money in MT, they can't, end of story.

Hm...

And let's not forget you start talking lasers, you start getting into the realm of "OMG ORBITAL LASER CANNON ATTACK SHIPS", which, no matter how much you want to argue, is impossible in MT. Unless you're dropping the satellite itself on the ships.

It's perfectly possible. You could use an ABL on a ship and it'd still damage the ship. An orbital laser wouldn't be that much different. It wouldn't be the most effective form of attack, but you could easily do it. Ships don't need much damage to explode when you've got a bird's eye view of their magazines and a LoS weapon.

Everybody getting themselves involved in this argument needs to cool down. Now. The main issue being reported has been resolved; however, I can still see that personal insults are still being used in an argument over specifics of roleplay. As a general rule of thumb, if you can't hold a civil discussion without personal insults, you probably shouldn't post. Any further continuation of this heated discussion will stop now. Continuing after this post will result in each person receiving an infraction. No exceptions. This thread will continue to what it's main purpose was, before the argument hijacked this thread.

Still waiting on an answer to my question here.

Also, orbit to surface lasers are impractical at best due to bloom.

Most of the stuff done in NS is impractical.

OOC: Guys, the thread is open to all for a reason. Any and all posting for the naval combat between me and Emporer Pudu goes here. Feel free to join, just don't bring anything above PMT. No magic/vampires/werewolves except approved specifically by whoever you're going to use them on.

I was going to use our thread to do the conflict between your intercept force and the one I sent to intercept that. The main force will continue onwards towards the Confederacy, and will eventually arrive in that thread, admittedly, after the naval battle there is over, in all likelihood.

Most of the stuff done in NS is impractical.

Stop posting here. This is not where you complain about the game, it's where you discuss the war between Blackhelm and Allanea.

This is quite possibly one of the most retarded threads I have seen in my signficant time here.

Then please, please, by all means avoid exposing yourself to my stupidity.

All I ask is that if you do not like the way I and my friends RP, simply abstain from commenting.

Please?

The OOC thread, not IC.

Continue to have your fun Boris.

Axis Nova's Question (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14198736&postcount=110)

In case Griffin didn't see that.
Also, Griff, there's a telegram for you from Otagai.

OOC: hey allenea i need some intel on new kentucky, airstrip?, your forces in the island? who's in command?, so i can post

OOC:

1. New Kentucky is not an island, it's a coastal area. The rest of the continent is owned by an inactive nation called the Silver Turtle.

2. Most of it is rural/undeveloped. There are however several stratbomber/military bases, so you can land whatever you want.

3. General Todd Gleam is in command.

hey thanks sorry bout the island thing going off of BC's first post said it was an island

what forces do you have deployed there as ground,air,etc

I have two dozen divisions of infantry, and about 150 stratbombers and escort craft. It's not exactly a central location of my country.

OH and there's no such place as Allenea.

Minor question, is this a "limited war", or should I expect Pudu to target my capitol with ICBM-spam upon radar contact (in hopes it'll scare me away)?

Cause right now, I'm ICly assuming the later...

I'm asking cause I read this on page 2:
Although I'm sure you have hundreds, how many of these bombs do you have?

I've no clue.

Remember my nation has no ICBMs or SLBMs.

My entire offensive nuclear arsenal is free-fall nukes for their comparative cheapness.

Also, do your boats use Harpoon missiles or some NS-designed armament?

I'm with the 'no nukes except as specifically agreed upon between two players, and possibly nuclear CIWS' approach.

Also:

http://z15.invisionfree.com/Confederacy/index.php?showtopic=26

hot dam that a nice stockpile

I'm with the 'no nukes except as specifically agreed upon between two players, and possibly nuclear CIWS' approach.

Ah, good... Now I'll go out back for sticking my foot in my mouth when trying to join one of those newer alliances...
(They outright asked if I'd "try pulling some sneaky BS", I answered the question truthfully with a question, to which it was decided that, yes, I pull sneaky BS all the time, and that I scare newbies)

So... I can use them, if say, just for an example, the Pudites decided it would be a good idea to conquer the rest of Chitzeland?

I may have to send some TGs to Pudu+BC for the other scenarios...

Though I'm pretty sure he's going to consider that an attempt to escalate teh conflict.
And trying to weasel my way out (though feasable) would just throw the fallout someplace else...

FWIW, my country doesn't own any nuclear weapons, I just carry a few (off the record) through a... come to think of it, it's all pretty confusing...
(Moar of that sneaky BS I was reffering to)

What I mean is. If you talk to Pudu and OOC ly work it out beforehand, then this is okay with me.

This is just to avoid it becoming a whinefest/flame as nuclear war usually does.

TGed Pudu immediately after Parth OOCly told me he planned on putting me in a tight pincer...

My initial reaction was "WTF?", then good 'ol "Logic" kicked in and said "D'uh".

I bet your enemies don't usualy threaten to turn you into orange jello...
Aside from Kravan Corps and Axis Nova...

So now, unlike about a week ago, my plate is completely full.
Thankfully, one of the threads I joined early in the week already died.

In short, expect to see Mendez in front of a board of inquest giving a rather good "Jack Nicholson" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQtumNAY), while saying "I have no legs, cha-cha -cha".

Is the invasion of New Kentucky dead?

I'm waiting for people to post.

sorry had some RL work issues to deal with, i'll post on the new kentucky thread either tonight or tomorrow

I'm waiting for people to post.

I'm waiting on you in the Open Season on Me bit.

HT - First, if you want to use anything goofy, TG me about it, I don't know exactly what "stuff from DMG" means, last I saw, he just sold pretty normal things.

Second, the Dominion does not now nor has it ever decided that the strategic use of nuclear weapons is wise. Not because of any MAD kinda thing - most people have passable or even effective anti-ICBM defense networks and other, large stockpiles of nukes. It's just not practical. The Dominion does, however, believe that tactical use of nuclear weapons (and chemicals and biological agents, for that matter) is wholly acceptable. The use of a tactical nuke against the Dominion does not warrant a Pudite ICBM barrage, it would be seen as a standard and acceptable act of regular war. It's just a bigger bomb.

In fact, I have precedent on this point. In ages past, myself, Griffincrest, and Leafistani Mafia invaded and annexed the islands of Galation. In doing, a small Pudite fleet was attacked by a nuclear weapon. Just one missile, and it was shot down, but even after that, the Dominion was staunchly against the nuclear retribution threatened by (and later enacted by) other foreign nationals against the offender.

Nukes, VX gas, and Ebola are weapons, like any other. If certain nations overreact to these weapons, that is their prerogative. The Dominion understands, though, that that is not necessary or practical.

HT - First, if you want to use anything goofy, TG me about it, I don't know exactly what "stuff from DMG" means, last I saw, he just sold pretty normal things.
Actually, I considered use of DMG's machines (for delivery vehicle and other minor purposes) as more questionable than the tac-nuke.
As I planned on using up to twenty of his RQ-10 Angels (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10242789&postcount=1656), to more or less their fullest capabilities.

And as noted in the TG, Chitzeland was agreed upon to be a radiological material-free area ever since someone decided to make an EMP with a tac-nuke in R+R...
-I'm assuming this "treaty" is still in effect, and is enforced by all other occupiers.

So I won't be sending the nukes to Chitzeland.

As for how I came across the nukes, I had two nations donate them to an umbrella group (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=520760), Wanderjar made me promise not to use them against him, the other didn't want me to ICly let it get traced back to TPF.
-------------
K, so I got the weapons, what've I been doing with them?

I've been sitting on these nukes for over a year now OOCly, and almost used them against Maldorians, Greston, Leafanistan, Blackhelm, DMG, TRBI, Mokastana, and Volzegrad (for a series of planned pre-emptive decapitating strikes)... I even had a few targeting Antigr and Dephire in case things went wrong.

As a distraction, I had 25 dummy ICBMs loaded with a DU penetrator (to spoof the radiation sig), MRVs loaded with assorted biological weapons, and a ton of decoys spread amongst 50 hardened shelters and mobile launch platforms. These won't be needed at this time.

I'm waiting for people to post.
I'm waiting on you in the Open Season on Me bit.
K, so if I'm waiting for Pudu, and Pudu is waiting for Alleana, and Alleana is waiting for everyone else...

Dephire!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait....you had nukes aimed at my nation? What the jizz?!

Wait....you had nukes aimed at my nation? What the jizz?!

That plus me and Antigr took turns shooting anything that crossed our borders...

As for your Non-aggression pact with Pudu... I have a similar one, but that isn't preventing me from taking turns with Alleana in tac-nuking his fleet, is it?

OOC: I hope you disdn't deplete all your airborn AA stores already (fuel and LRAAMs).
Since I can't find stats on a powered JSOW (http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-154.html), can I use stats from the JASSM (http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/m-158.html) or Sea-Lance?
AIM-7R has an IR seeker from AIM-9P as back-up in case of radar-break-up.
AIM-9Ps are rear-facing and are controled defensively by WSO.
And long-range scramjets don't like sea-level. (http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/slam.html)

Only some of the aircraft up engaged the Allaneans, precisely because I didn't want to deplete those stores. There were hundreds of planes in the air, one-hundred dropped out of patrol to chase bombers around, still have plenty of guys up and running. The fleet itself carries over three-thousand combat aircraft, and understanding not all of them are fighters, and maybe a fifth of them are up on patrol at a time, that's plenty.

Yeah, go ahead and use JASSM stats.

Why the thing about scramjets?

Why the thing about scramjets?
Just making sure you wouldn't try using them uber-missilez [TD-AAM-6] against my low-fliers.

Maybe a ramjet going mach 2.5-ish, but a pure scramjet going mach 6+ at sea-level runs into issues the "flying crowbar" never imagined.

Only some of the aircraft up engaged the Allaneans, precisely because I didn't want to deplete those stores. There were hundreds of planes in the air, one-hundred dropped out of patrol to chase bombers around, still have plenty of guys up and running. The fleet itself carries over three-thousand combat aircraft, and understanding not all of them are fighters, and maybe a fifth of them are up on patrol at a time, that's plenty.
Ah, I just figured what with the huge missile spam that the fighters used so far are completely spent and due to the damage on your carriers they wouldn't b able to land without completely screwing up the deck-handling on your remaining carriers.
Thus causing more losses down the road, either lossing this batch of fighters or the next due to fuel-starvation.

The Parthians had issues keeping track of how many missiles/bombs were on the racks of his own planes... So I kinda have to ask from time to time.
(And if/when they do blow all their LRAAMs, it becomes a turkey-shoot, my 35 mm cannon vs WUG.)

Yeah, go ahead and use JASSM stats.
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet...

My B-52s still would have to penetrate approx 1,100 nautical miles of enemy airspace (about 180 miles less) before coming into launch-range though... With only 35 sub-standard ELRAAMs [compared to yours] ~60 AMRAAMs and a few AIM-7R/AGM-88 (I may swap AIM-120C and AIM-7R quantities though -or even use them interchangeably).

And the F-4 jocks... well, I'm not sure they'll survive long enough to fire their own missiles in self-defense...

======
I should post ECM before horendous losses, shouldn't I?
May keep you form seeing the low-altitude planes

Peace in our time!

Peace in our time!

This thread is resolved, and peace with Blackhelm is upon us.

I will say this about Blackhelm:

Before entering the war, I was told by multiple players that I should not RP with him and that he is a bad RPer that'll cause me to regret having wasted my time.

This has turned out to be completely untrue.

As a matter of fact, Blackhelm has turned out to be an excellent writer and a cooperative roleplayer, qualities that are of prime importance for NS RP.

I cannot but thank him for his participation and wonderful qualities, and I hope we will continue to cooperate in the future.

Oh, he a good RPer, I coulda told ya that.
A tricky and clever one though.
Which causes frustrations whe their "well laid plans" backfire 80% of the time.

Winning a war against him is extremely difficult because of this.

So... me and pudu, are we still... um... fighting?
And does Alleana recall the bombers back to base, or will he just let them missile fly?

So many more questions than answers...

Blah, so much for my plans for an orbital drop operation into Blackhelm's capital region.

Just making sure you wouldn't try using them uber-missilez [TD-AAM-6] against my low-fliers.

Maybe a ramjet going mach 2.5-ish, but a pure scramjet going mach 6+ at sea-level runs into issues the "flying crowbar" never imagined.

The missiles I used to shoot at Allanea's missiles is a short-ranged anti-air missile. I could shoot it at you if you want, but it would fall into the ocean...

Ah, I just figured what with the huge missile spam that the fighters used so far are completely spent and due to the damage on your carriers they wouldn't b able to land without completely screwing up the deck-handling on your remaining carriers.

Thus causing more losses down the road, either lossing this batch of fighters or the next due to fuel-starvation.

The Parthians had issues keeping track of how many missiles/bombs were on the racks of his own planes... So I kinda have to ask from time to time.
(And if/when they do blow all their LRAAMs, it becomes a turkey-shoot, my 35 mm cannon vs WUG.)

I know exactly how many missiles each plane carries, and of what type they are, don't worry. Each plane engaging Allanea fired four long-range air-to-air missiles from their fuselage underside internal missile bay, which has four hard-points. Other than those, the fighter I used [F-63KB] has two fuselage side internal missile bays, each of which has two hard-points within, plus three fuselage hard-points, and eight wing pylons. The aircraft also mounts a 30mm cannon.

Also, there are five-hundred planes flying, with three carriers down, and one damaged, the planes that were either going to land or were carried on those ships are lost. The other carriers work just fine.

Emperor Pudu, I just so happened to send you an IC message...I hope (OOCly) your people didn't discard it as they did to the Allanea's message had been. Haha.

Emperor Pudu, I just so happened to send you an IC message...I hope (OOCly) your people didn't discard it as they did to the Allanea's message had been. Haha.

With Blackhelm and Allanea having peace, I don't know what's happening anymore.

I will formulate a response now, however.

EDIT - also, basically all of my air-to-air and anti-ship missiles are just re-named real life missiles, so if you're wondering about that, just say so and I'll point it out.

Sry, didn't get around to posting ECM/final preparations of my attack-run befor Pudu posted. So I'll see if I can do stuff as planned or if I should just say my pilots fell asleep at the controls until the RWR woke them up.

Even as the Allanean attack smashed into the head of the Pudite fleet, a second, far smaller, group of foreign planes were detected, moving up from another direction. They were identified as another group of B-52's, two of them, accompanied by a replenishment plane, and led by a pair of fighter-bombers. This force, being considerably smaller, was warranted less attention, but was deemed important enough to bring about the assignment of three flights of fighters.
Notes the performance envelopes of F-4s, B-52s, and KC-130s.
-Since the B-52s are with the C-130, they'd be going about the same speed and presenting similar radar returns.
-If the F-4s slowed down (and were therefore in a loose formation ahead of the B-52s, traveling only slightly faster than the C-130s [approx mimiking a set of B-52s]), would that have changed the response?
-As for the (unmentioned = undetected?) low-attack, would they be detected if they had flown ahead of the mentioned planes? (B-52s and F-4 going at full speed pemited @ sea level)
-Would ECM causing slightly MORE targets to appear on-screen have prompted a significantly larger response? (2xF-4s trying to look like 6 B-52s and the C-130 trying to look like a 3xAWACS+12xescort and the 2XF?B-52 attempting to CW spam-jam multiple frequencies?)

What would have happened if they did these things "a tad too late"?

Being as it seemed the bombers and their escorts intended to close with the Pudite fleet, they would become simple prey for the thirty aircraft sent to counter them. The first flight of Tengriy fighters split into it's two constituent detachments, which maneuvered to engage the enemy's F-4 fighter-bombers. Each of these fighters fired a single TD-AAM-5 medium-ranged missile, with the five planes of each detachment targeting only their formation's assigned F-4.
The missiles are being fired at maximum engagement range (400 Km, same as before), right?

The second and third flights of Tengriy's moved to engage the bombers, with each fighter there also discharging a single TD-AAM-5. The missiles were guided by an inertial guidance system, replaced by active radar systems in the terminal phase. The hope was to quickly engage and eliminate the attack before it could do any damage
Same question.

Sry, didn't get around to posting ECM/final preparations of my attack-run befor Pudu posted. So I'll see if I can do stuff as planned or if I should just say my pilots fell asleep at the controls until the RWR woke them up.


Notes the performance envelopes of F-4s, B-52s, and KC-130s.
-Since the B-52s are with the C-130, they'd be going about the same speed and presenting similar radar returns.
-If the F-4s slowed down (and were therefore in a loose formation ahead of the B-52s, traveling only slightly faster than the C-130s [approx mimiking a set of B-52s]), would that have changed the response?
-As for the (unmentioned = undetected?) low-attack, would they be detected if they had flown ahead of the mentioned planes? (B-52s and F-4 going at full speed pemited @ sea level)
-Would ECM causing slightly MORE targets to appear on-screen have prompted a significantly larger response? (2xF-4s trying to look like 6 B-52s and the C-130 trying to look like a 3xAWACS+12xescort and the 2XF?B-52 attempting to CW spam-jam multiple frequencies?)

What would have happened if they did these things "a tad too late"?


The missiles are being fired at maximum engagement range (400 Km, same as before), right?


Same question.

Answers from the bottom-up:

Nope, these are different missiles (TD-AAM-4 vs TD-AAM-5), I flew in to engage, these have a range of about 70 km, and were probably fired at sixty or so kilometers out. If you would have preferred to have engaged with your AIM-120's, which have a range beyond that, before, than we can have that happen.

How many more targets would have been brought up? I ask as my thirty planes pretty well had your five outnumbered safely, from my point of view.

Which low attack? The torpedo attack from the B-52's? From a low altitude like you mentioned, the type of missile I thought you were firing would have to start a little more than twenty kilometers away, so I figured I had time before you attacked. If that's not it, I don't know. I didn't mention the RQ-10's because I didn't notice them, the same as Allanea's fighters above his bomber fleet.

If the F-4's had appeared to us as more B-52's perhaps a slightly smaller response would have been undertaken, but as the F-4 itself, even being part-fighter, is no match for the dedicated Tengriy air superiority fighter, we didn't really scale up the response on that basis.

Meh, I can just say I shot at all three if you'd like.