NationStates Jolt Archive

I have a simple idea here. Nation States has a lot of Trek fans. And a lot of Wars fans. I am currently in an RP based on either series, and they're great, with high-quality posts and dedicated RPers. So, why not combine the two?

Now, I fielded this idea before and was told it was unworkable, on a dedicated vs forum, no less. However, it might be cool if you could make it work. The key I think is to get Trek fans and Wars fans to agree to certain ground rules on how powerful each universe is in relation to the other. For balancing reasons, I suspect a rather lose interpretation of cannon is nessissary, so here goes:

1. Trek ships and Wars ships will be roughly equal by size, giving a Star Destroyer roughly 10 times the raw power generation of a Galaxy Class starship. However, dedicated warships will be tougher than Science ship/Battle ship hybreds, so the Star Destroyer is a bit tougher(though the large numbers of torpedoes on the Galaxy might reballance it a bit). A Borg Cube, however, could take several Star Destroyers on this scale.

2. All technologies/powers are assumed to work equally well in either Universe.

3. While EU information can be incorporated, we're not sticking too close to it, for balancing reasons, because it limmits creativity, and because some fans may not be very well-versed in both Universe's EU material, and I'd rather not get into that kind of debate. Plus, alot of the EU is horribly self-contradictory.

Sorry to begin with a bunch of rules, but I think setting these guidlines out now will make things simpler later on.

Now as for the actual story, I'm still working on that, and while I have some ideas, I can certainly use suggestions on what would get people interested. One idea I've got is to have a wormhole breifly open between the galaxies and have one Rebel task force and one Imperial task force stranded in the new (Trek) galaxy, each competing with the other to recruit civilizations, explore and claim territory, and build an infrastructure. This idea would probably focus on political/military RPing on a large scale. Or we could reverse the situation, and have one Federation force and one Borg or Romulan force in the Wars Galaxy. Another possibillity is to play as different individual crew members in a ship or task force, for a more character-based RP.

So, any interest?

OOC: Don't get me wrong, it's a great idea, but I think it's crazy!

Glad to hear someone likes it. I'll be back tomorrow to see if anyone else is interested.

I think I'd rather watch this evolve than join. I like both SW and ST but this is a little beyond me.

We had an Trek vs random NS FT nations RP. Trek lost. Bad.

would we be controlling a race, a single ship, what?

Ya what do we control

guess we'll have to wait 'til tomorrow to know the answer...

I think I'll put the question to a vote. Either way has its advantages. One ship would be difficult to pull off, both because it might preclude any conflict between players and because it would mean granting the guys with only one ship inordinate advantages, and the last thing i want to do is turn this into a tech debate. But it would be more character based, and less likely to turn into the kind of silliness found in more war gaming type threads were it basically turns into an endless battle with no interest in story or characters at all.


A political/war rp would allow players to pick their favorite factions or create original ones, but would open itsself up to the kind of problem described above. However, its the one I have the most ideas for(I've been planning to write a fan fic on this idea) and the kind I have the most experience playing, plus its more in the spirit of nation states. So personally, I'm leaning toward this option.

I guess I'll put a poll up, to see what others think. Nothing's set in stone, so any suggestions would be welcome.

you better throw some Nation States into the mix or it fall into nothing to do with NS

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13972877#post13972877

I guess i go for Political war, and since saying that I CALL DIBS ON THE KILINGONS

you better throw some Nation States into the mix or it fall into nothing to do with NS

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13972877#post13972877

Point taken. But there's certainly room for a variety of options as far as the type of RP. The only definite thing so far is that it will involve things from both Galaxies meeting (and mayhem resulting).

I guess i go for Political war, and since saying that I CALL DIBS ON THE KILINGONS

I'm playing either Romulans or Rebels, if we go with Political war.

Guys, that thread explained that there are no CARBON COPIES OF EARTH allowed

They never said fanfiction and the esque was bad, or they would have f*cked the 40k RP before it began.

But while were at it, can i throw in some battletech?

The story is easy, say the DS9 Wormhole reopened into the wars galaxy

Yeah I was thinking something like that

Guys, that thread explained that there are no CARBON COPIES OF EARTH allowed

They never said fanfiction and the esque was bad, or they would have f*cked the 40k RP before it began.

But while were at it, can i throw in some battletech?

The story is easy, say the DS9 Wormhole reopened into the wars galaxy

hello just doing ST SW with out NS in it, is just CARBON COPYING RL SHOWs with is why that thread came about

Wrong, that real show was set on a carbon copy of earth. Frankly, that rule only applies if you are playing using the same exact model of earth, That real show was set on a carbon copy of earth, ergo, it's lockification. The 40k RP was never locked.

Guys, that thread explained that there are no CARBON COPIES OF EARTH allowed

They never said fanfiction and the esque was bad, or they would have f*cked the 40k RP before it began.

But while were at it, can i throw in some battletech?

The story is easy, say the DS9 Wormhole reopened into the wars galaxy

That would preclude having the Dominion as a side, right? It could work if no one wants to play Dominion.

Wrong, that real show was set on a carbon copy of earth. Frankly, that rule only applies if you are playing using the same exact model of earth, That real show was set on a carbon copy of earth, ergo, it's lockification. The 40k RP was never locked.

Ok, I've seen a lot of Trek and Wars Rps, so it seemed fine to me to combine the two. However, if there may be a problem with the rules, I can go ask a moderator.

I'm not the one yelling at you, quote ISA

I'll be the commander of a imperial fleet

I'm still wavering between Romulans and Rebels.

Has anyone claimed the Chiss?

Wars vs Trek can only work on a character RP basis. If you try and make a political/war RP then it will only end in tears. I'm personally convinced that Wars would beat the living stuffing out of Trek, mainly thanks to stardestroyer.net (www.stardestroyer.net/Empire). Trek and Wars tech are not equal, it's like saying Renaissance and Modern Day technology are the same. Your average Wars warship is far faster, stronger and tougher than your average Trek ship.

I won't be taking part in this RP because I am convinced that even if you do manage to get some ground rules established, you'll still get arguments over what is tougher than what. My advice would be either keep the numbers of Wars ships extremely limited or make this a character RP.

One major problem: Wars have powerful Sith Lords and Jedi Masters and Trek has simple foot soldiers. Now really, you take Darth Vader, a fleet of Imperial Star Destoryers and you can wipe out the Trek fleet easily.

And a modern army can wipe out the Trek ground forces easily...

This is probably going to just derail into a "Star Trek vs. Star Wars" OOC rantfest

Terk technology is consdierably more advanced though. While Wars ships are faster and larger, the Trek ones are better. Phasers seem more powerfull than turbo lasers, they have trasporters and are signifigantly more manoverable and faster at sub-light speeds.

Phasers seem more powerfull than turbo lasers,

Let's quantify this, or we'll be here all day.

Enterprise D main phasers (as quoted in the Next Generation Technical Manual): 3.6 GW

Slave-1 Main guns (as quoted in Episode II Incredible Cross Sections): 64,000 GW

Oops.

they have trasporters

Which are nullfied by how many things? Shields, jamming, radiation and even weak magnetic fields.

and are signifigantly more manoverable and faster at sub-light speeds.

Again, back to tech specs for this.

Enterprise D (TNG TM again) Sublight acceleration: 1000G

Slave-1 (SWII ICS) Sublight acceleration: 2500G

And it gets better. The Acclamator (SWII ICS) has a wopping 3500G sublight acceleration and is armed with light guns of 300 million GW and heavy guns of 2.4 million megatons! The much-vaunted photon torpedoes of the Enterprise-D only pack a punch of 64 megatons.

As for more manueverability, look at the Millenium Flacon and Slave-1 for examples. They seem on par with Trek.

Wars vs Trek can only work on a character RP basis. If you try and make a political/war RP then it will only end in tears. I'm personally convinced that Wars would beat the living stuffing out of Trek, mainly thanks to stardestroyer.net (www.stardestroyer.net/Empire). Trek and Wars tech are not equal, it's like saying Renaissance and Modern Day technology are the same. Your average Wars warship is far faster, stronger and tougher than your average Trek ship.

I won't be taking part in this RP because I am convinced that even if you do manage to get some ground rules established, you'll still get arguments over what is tougher than what. My advice would be either keep the numbers of Wars ships extremely limited or make this a character RP.

Hahaha that site is so patronising.

He does treat you like dirt, but it doesn't stop him being right ;)

Yes yes it is clear to me the virtue of larger numbers, if anyone wants me I'll be on 'my' GCU :wink:

Let's quantify this, or we'll be here all day.

Enterprise D main phasers (as quoted in the Next Generation Technical Manual): 3.6 GW

Slave-1 Main guns (as quoted in Episode II Incredible Cross Sections): 64,000 GW

Oops.



Which are nullfied by how many things? Shields, jamming, radiation and even weak magnetic fields.



Again, back to tech specs for this.

Enterprise D (TNG TM again) Sublight acceleration: 1000G

Slave-1 (SWII ICS) Sublight acceleration: 2500G

And it gets better. The Acclamator (SWII ICS) has a wopping 3500G sublight acceleration and is armed with light guns of 300 million GW and heavy guns of 2.4 million megatons! The much-vaunted photon torpedoes of the Enterprise-D only pack a punch of 64 megatons.

As for more manueverability, look at the Millenium Flacon and Slave-1 for examples. They seem on par with Trek.


Both Slave-1 and the Falcon seem pretty overpowered then. The problem is that the two concepts are diferent. While the plot lines could work together, the technology is icompatable. There is no doubt that the Enterprise, a capital ship in ST is stronger than the Falcon, a smugling ship. But if you use SW/ST stats then it's not. What needs to be done is for everyone to agree on strength of ships etc before the RP.

Those ships aren't overpowered, it's just that the civilisations in the Wars universe are orders of magnitude older than Trek. If I remember correctly, then Trek is basically set within five hundred years of Earth being unified. In Wars, the galaxy has almost been unified for untold millenia (I say almost because not everyone is part of the Republic or the Empire or the New Republic or whatever.) Older civilisations tends to equate more advanced technology and more powerful weapons, as I think my numbers just proved. ;)

It's hard to balance the two universes because they are just so different. As you said Belschaft, different concepts. One is about explorations and adventures, the other deals with a series of horrific civil wars on a galactic scale. I guess I'm just too a die-hard Warsie to be happy seeing Wars ships 'dumbed down' to go head to head with Trek on an equal footing.

Those ships aren't overpowered, it's just that the civilisations in the Wars universe are orders of magnitude older than Trek. If I remember correctly, then Trek is basically set within five hundred years of Earth being unified. In Wars, the galaxy has almost been unified for untold millenia (I say almost because not everyone is part of the Republic or the Empire or the New Republic or whatever.) Older civilisations tends to equate more advanced technology and more powerful weapons, as I think my numbers just proved. ;)

It's hard to balance the two universes because they are just so different. As you said Belschaft, different concepts. One is about explorations and adventures, the other deals with a series of horrific civil wars on a galactic scale. I guess I'm just too a die-hard Warsie to be happy seeing Wars ships 'dumbed down' to go head to head with Trek on an equal footing.

I like them both, and have wathched the mboth (all SW films, a lot of the ST episodes + a couple ST films) but I've allways prefered the plot and charecters to the tech. I don't see why for the sake of an RP we can't just do a bit of work on the stats, as all it is a couple of zero's - the ships stay the same in context of there own universes but now are at comparable levels. For example while I'm not gonna sugest that a Galaxy class ship could take a star destroyer, as that'd be stupid, a couple of them would stand a chance.

See I think that will be the problem. When you make it vague like that, it sounds reasonable to you and me now. But what happens in a huge space melee of the sort that FT threads are prone to produce? It just gets all messy and that's one reason why I tend to stay away from FT that's not character based.

See I think that will be the problem. When you make it vague like that, it sounds reasonable to you and me now. But what happens in a huge space melee of the sort that FT threads are prone to produce? It just gets all messy and that's one reason why I tend to stay away from FT that's not character based.

Ok then we deal with that now. Within both universes it generally clear what can take on what - Two TIE's to an X-Wing, Galaxy Class to a Warbird, etc. Why don't we just create an exchange rate for weapons and ships now? For example -

2.5 Galaxy Class = 1 Star Destroyer
3 War birds = 1 Star Destroyer
2 Federation Soldiers = 1 Stormtrooper
0.3 Jem Hadar = 1 Stormtrooper

Would that work?

@ Thread Starter - you are crazy but bold.

why can't we just do character RP?

I'm just gonna step up and suggest something from a Table Top RP game called Rifts.

The entire thing is based around alternate dimensions, traveling between them and whatnot, and in the system the general suggestion for taking something from a high tech world (Rifts and Phase world of example) to a low tech world (Nightbane, Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited) results in the material and weaponry decreasing in order of magnitude to be comparable to the equipment of that time (while better due to all the flashy features and mobility the higher tech stuff would have). As they put it, a SAMUS power armor in a low tech dimensional world would result in the stats of the SAMUS being about equal in strength and damage to a tank.

Why not just have something similar? The Wars ships were somehow reduced in strength by this grand balancing Rift equation that says "Screw physics and lets have fun with the concept without people bickering that their ships should go boom boom in one hit."

I'm just gonna step up and suggest something from a Table Top RP game called Rifts.

The entire thing is based around alternate dimensions, traveling between them and whatnot, and in the system the general suggestion for taking something from a high tech world (Rifts and Phase world of example) to a low tech world (Nightbane, Palladium Fantasy, Heroes Unlimited) results in the material and weaponry decreasing in order of magnitude to be comparable to the equipment of that time (while better due to all the flashy features and mobility the higher tech stuff would have). As they put it, a SAMUS power armor in a low tech dimensional world would result in the stats of the SAMUS being about equal in strength and damage to a tank.

Why not just have something similar? The Wars ships were somehow reduced in strength by this grand balancing Rift equation that says "Screw physics and lets have fun with the concept without people bickering that their ships should go boom boom in one hit."

*approves*

Sounds like it's the right way, the numbers seem for the most part to have been plucked out of the air anyway.

According to what Romulan said in the rules, the sides will be balanced. End of Wars>Trek Discussion.

Wrong, that real show was set on a carbon copy of earth. Frankly, that rule only applies if you are playing using the same exact model of earth, That real show was set on a carbon copy of earth, ergo, it's lockification. The 40k RP was never locked.

He's right, actually.

To quote Scolopendra in the "Concerning Alternate History Threads" (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12716803&postcount=84)

Okay, opening post edited. It's not a new rule, it's an enforcement of "Nationstates postings should be Nationstates related" common-sense rule that's been around forever but (unfortunately) enforced sporadically. The 'more work' issue is easily countered by making it common knowledge for self-enforcement.

These are the Nationstates roleplay forums. If it doesn't have to do with Nationstates nations, you probably shouldn't bother and should go elsewhere. As already mentioned, General's existence is not germane to this discussion. That being said, recruiting your buddies from here to 'hey I got these nifty offsite forums' is fine.

Most of the 40K RPs tend to be based around NS nations with a dash of Chaos/IoM/Tau/Tyranid/etc in them, rather than the actual 40K universe itself.

I'm not saying this is an inherently bad idea, but it'd probably be easier (and you wouldn't risk a threadlock in the middle of a healthy RP) to take it to an offsite forum, rather than taking your chances here.

Let's quantify this, or we'll be here all day.

Enterprise D main phasers (as quoted in the Next Generation Technical Manual): 3.6 GW

Slave-1 Main guns (as quoted in Episode II Incredible Cross Sections): 64,000 GW

Oops.



Which are nullfied by how many things? Shields, jamming, radiation and even weak magnetic fields.



Again, back to tech specs for this.

Enterprise D (TNG TM again) Sublight acceleration: 1000G

Slave-1 (SWII ICS) Sublight acceleration: 2500G

And it gets better. The Acclamator (SWII ICS) has a wopping 3500G sublight acceleration and is armed with light guns of 300 million GW and heavy guns of 2.4 million megatons! The much-vaunted photon torpedoes of the Enterprise-D only pack a punch of 64 megatons.

As for more manueverability, look at the Millenium Flacon and Slave-1 for examples. They seem on par with Trek.

I'm personally inclined to agree, but this serves no purpose other than to derail an rp. Few complain when a historical game like Age of Empires deviates from history a bit for the sake of ballancing. If you don't like the rules no one's forcing you to play. If, however, you'd prefer a character-based RP, you can vote accordingly in the other thread. Though I think these issues are just as likely to come up in a character based rp.

Ok then we deal with that now. Within both universes it generally clear what can take on what - Two TIE's to an X-Wing, Galaxy Class to a Warbird, etc. Why don't we just create an exchange rate for weapons and ships now? For example -

2.5 Galaxy Class = 1 Star Destroyer
3 War birds = 1 Star Destroyer
2 Federation Soldiers = 1 Stormtrooper
0.3 Jem Hadar = 1 Stormtrooper

Would that work?

Ok, here's the system: Star Destroyers have equal power output by size as a TNG era Romulan warbird. We already know how strong other ships in each seperate universe are in relationship to eachother.

I like them both, and have wathched the mboth (all SW films, a lot of the ST episodes + a couple ST films) but I've allways prefered the plot and charecters to the tech. I don't see why for the sake of an RP we can't just do a bit of work on the stats, as all it is a couple of zero's - the ships stay the same in context of there own universes but now are at comparable levels. For example while I'm not gonna sugest that a Galaxy class ship could take a star destroyer, as that'd be stupid, a couple of them would stand a chance.

Well even if the tech were equal, a Star Destroyer is a dedicated warship while the Galaxy is not. Its a half warship half science ship, or at least the early moddles were.

Sign up thread is http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=564788

Since it turns out this is a violation of rules(though I've seen many other rps that violate it), I'm going to have to find another forum to do this. Unfortunately I can not do that because Im moving and dont have an e-mail adress right now. So It'll have to wait a while. I am still doing this however, and I'm just posting to say that if any of you are still interested, I can telegram you when I've set this up on another forum.