NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, some of you may remember my first attempt at creating a weapon of my own, and that turned out...decent. So here's my first attempt at creating a vehicle of my own. I know the drawing isn't the best, but consider it more of a Concept Art than a professional piece :D. Here (http://wikistates.outwardhosting.com/wiki/MSAV-54) it is.

may i is buy 6 for testing, I will pay weight in gold v. important for nation to developed AA defense

OOC: Rather nice. The art is much better than I could do, lol, so you get kudos there.

However, I can't tell if it's an APC, an AA Rocket Vehicle, or and APC AA Rocket Vehicle? Oh, and what metal is the heat and blast-wave vector made out of?

Lol. first off, i don't really know what to charge. A few tips there would be nice. And It is an AA rocket vehicle. That's why it launches Surface to Air Missiles. And there isn't really enough room for it to be an APC, now is there? lol. But i'll add that in. And wtf? Heat blast-wave vector? lol.

Lol. first off, i don't really know what to charge. A few tips there would be nice. And It is an AA rocket vehicle. That's why it launches Surface to Air Missiles. And there isn't really enough room for it to be an APC, now is there? lol. But i'll add that in. And wtf? Heat blast-wave vector? lol.

OOC: Ok, my eyes are probably just playing tricks on me. I'm exhausted. A Heat Blastwave vector is a device that vectors away potentially "harmful" effects, such as the fire and explosion cloud a missile generates when lift-off. I apologize for using such technical terms.

Now, I do have a few suggestions, of which I will state later.

Allright, i had a name for the metal somewhere but now i've lost it...i'll go find it again and then i'll post it.

Ok then. Now onto my suggestions;
1. Consider putting a statistic for "Conversion Time," or the time it takes for the vehicle to convert from one mode to another.

2. How much crew does it require to operate? Crew is an integral part of whether you get purchases or not.

3. Add some specs about it's operational range, fuel consumption, onboard sytems/computers, emergency mechanisms, etc.

Hope these suggestions help! Oh, and if you need any more help with either fine-tuning a design, or making one from scratch, just shoot me a TG!

Cool, thanks.

Happy to help!:D

OOC: Oh, almost forgot.

IC:
The People's Republic of Falkasia would be interested in acquiring 10 of these vehicles to conduct field tests and laboratory studies with.

OOC:

Whilst I hate to put a downer on thigns there are a couple of glaring issues with this design.

1. Stinger (or any other MANPADS missile for that matter) won't work as it needs to be pointed at target and locked on before launch.

2. Now there are IR guided lock on after launch missiles that are compatible with a vertical launch system but these tend to be large(ish) with the main ones being VL MICA and IRIS-T SL. There are other VLS SAMs but these do tend to be radar guided and again fairly large.

Now a couple of actual questions about the design:

a. Why do the outer rows have to be angled to fire? Why don't they just fire vertically like the central row?

b. What kind of sesnor does the vehilce use to detect targets? From the looks of things the vehicle appears to rely on a seperate sensor/sureveilance vehicle, not that there is anythign wrong with this since most AD vehicles apart from VSHORAD systems use this solution.

I think it is a good one, i want 5 for testing.

OOC:

Whilst I hate to put a downer on thigns there are a couple of glaring issues with this design.

1. Stinger (or any other MANPADS missile for that matter) won't work as it needs to be pointed at target and locked on before launch.

2. Now there are IR guided lock on after launch missiles that are compatible with a vertical launch system but these tend to be large(ish) with the main ones being VL MICA and IRIS-T SL. There are other VLS SAMs but these do tend to be radar guided and again fairly large.

Now a couple of actual questions about the design:

a. Why do the outer rows have to be angled to fire? Why don't they just fire vertically like the central row?

b. What kind of sesnor does the vehilce use to detect targets? From the looks of things the vehicle appears to rely on a seperate sensor/sureveilance vehicle, not that there is anythign wrong with this since most AD vehicles apart from VSHORAD systems use this solution.

Don't worry about being a downer. I'm here to learn. lol. But ur wrong about the stingers not being able to work in this system. Just check out the M1097 Avenger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1097_Avenger). I should probably add the sensors on the avenger to my vehicle description.

And as for the angle, that's so that the vehicle has a wider range of fire. Instead of having to launch a missile and have it turn, it can be launched and just head straight at the target.

OOC: Cool. Nice design again, although the tracks may be a versatility downside. Run-flat tires might be worth looking into.

What do u mean? With tank treads a vehicle can turn 360 degrees. lol. I thought that would increase its versatility.

Yes, but it would also reduce it's mobility. Treads are good in some situations, such as if the ground isn't very good. However, treads are bulky and slow down a vehicle. Treads may allow the vehicle to turn 360 degrees, but very slowly, making it an exposed target.

Wheels, on the other hand, would decrease the chances of it being hit because it would be able to move faster while firing (Assuming it can move and fire), as well as reposition quickly in the event of an approaching tank for instance.

True. But the Vehicle isn't designed to be fast. Besides, it takes a few seconds to convert from fire to drive anyways so if a tank was approaching, being able to move faster wouldn't help much. With the treads, it almost gurantees that the vehicle won't get stuck and it can also handle more weight.

Ok then.

Keep the tips coming though. I need all the help i can get :D

Don't worry about being a downer. I'm here to learn. lol. But ur wrong about the stingers not being able to work in this system. Just check out the M1097 Avenger (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1097_Avenger). I should probably add the sensors on the avenger to my vehicle description.

And as for the angle, that's so that the vehicle has a wider range of fire. Instead of having to launch a missile and have it turn, it can be launched and just head straight at the target.

Actually Avenger just reinforces my point as it has a 360 turret with articuled mizzile boxes, you design appears to have a central vertical box plus 1 box pointed slightly forwar and one aft meaning you can't point each missile at its target be fore it is launched.

An Avenger type system really only works for dealing with 1 or two targets for what you want this vehicle to do you will need a sensor suite capable of tracking multiple targets and then handing those target tracks to the missiles. which pretty much means you will need a fairly large radar.

There are still a fair amoutn of holes in the design and it would likely be better if you found these holes your self by havign a good look at exactly what each RL SAM system does and how exactly it does it.

OOC: Just mount an SA-2 System on the back and you're good, lol.

Looks like i'm going to have to design my own missile after all. The kind that can take a radar signal and lock on to it itself and track it down. Lets see what i can find out to make that work if there isn't already something like that.

One major suggestion is to take this to the NSDraftroom. http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?act=idx

The people there would be able to help you bring this to a much higher level of performance.

Hmm...What if i put StarStreak Missiles on the vehicle? I could place a phase-array radar system on the MSAV and that should theoretically work. Right?

http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=3905

Take a look at the M-20M SAM vehicle if you want to see a work around for your problem. Then you'd only need a souped-up version of a small radar system.

Or, take a look at this, and have a small radar provide guidance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-7

http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=3905

Take a look at the M-20M SAM vehicle if you want to see a work around for your problem. Then you'd only need a souped-up version of a small radar system.

Or, take a look at this, and have a small radar provide guidance: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotale

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HQ-7

Isn't that what I was talking about? Placing a Phased Array radar either on the vehicle or use it in conjunction with another detector and launching StarStreak Missiles out the tubes along the radar line?

Not entirely.

What I did for the M-20 is to use a small J-band radar for an SARH launch, and then use an Electro-optical/IR seeker for Lock On After Launch (LOAL) capability.

What the Crotale and HQ-7 seem to do is use a small Radar in order to SARH guide it's missiles to the target. So all you really have to say is that you use a small radar and either have the missiles utilize pure SARH guidance, or do what I did with the M-20's SAM's.

O, good point. That way the missile could be locked on, launched, and then forgotten so the radar could go on to guide another missile. Cool.

Yeah, I thought so too. For the PYT-5 SAM's that my M-20 uses, I combined points from the SA-11 Gadfly ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-11_Gadfly ) , and the Python 5 ( http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/python/Python5.html ) .

Allright, i updated it. It isn't very detailed right now but that's because i'm not entirely sure how to describe currently and it is too late for me to bother. lol

Here is a way to describe it. :

The target is initially detected by the on-board RADAR (OOC: I use a small J-band radar, but you can use whatever type of radar that you want), and the target information is fed into the missile's computer. The missile uses this data at launch until it's own Electro-Optical/IR seeker head has locked onto the target. The missile then uses the seeker head's targeting information all of the way until detonation.

Works for me. That's basically what I wrote...kinda. lol.