NationStates Jolt Archive

Hi, some sad that i didnt gave enough information, here is a new one:


I got the dising, well sort of, from Falkasia. He sended it to me, i changed a bit.

AA-56 Tank:
Typ:light
Airco:Cold
AC: Yes.
Manufacturer: Canedian army tanks
Crew: 3 (Driver,Gunner, Commander)
Weight (pounds): 72 tons
Length: 25'6"
Width: 12'7"
Height: 12'5"
Armor Thickness: 1/2 inch of Steel Plate, 1/4 inch of Depleted Uranium Tiles, 1/4 Reactive Armor Tiles. 1/4 inch Reinforced Titanium Alloy Plate inside Crew Compartment
Forward Speed (Paved): 42 mph
Forward Speed (Cross-Country): 36 mph
Reverse Speed (Paved and Cross-Country): 24 mph
Engine: AGT-1500 turbine engine
Allision TG-250-2A powershift cross drive transmission with 4 forward /2 reverse
Fuel Tank: 316 Gallons
Fuel Consumption: 2.2 MPG
Vertical obstacle climb: 52 in
Maximum width ditch: 110 in
Fording Depth: 48 in
Main Gun: 152mm cannon; 35 Sabot rounds and 25 AP Piercing Rounds
Missile Launcher; 5 TOW Missiles
Coaxial machinegun: M240 - 7.62mm
Commander's machinegun: M2 - .50 cal
Sensors and Fire Control: M140 Gunner's Ranging and Firing Computer, IR SACLOS data link, Radio/GPS Command Link, MK3 IPD (Incoming Projectile Deflection) Computer
Price: 4,000,000 USD


I hope this is better.

Seems good to me. I think some people might actually buy it although where would you get depleted uranium tiles? You generally need between 250 and 500 mil before you start your nuclear program. That or outside assistance which you'll probably need to prove better RPing in order to recieve. Oh and the imperial units hurt my brain trying to convert to metric so I can't really say much else about the tank.

Well, it is good right?
I gave more detail, and i can change that uranium,

Yes. It is definetly a big step up from the off-site link and older semi-used RL equipment. Good job. Now if only I could understand these blasted units.

I like it, but I already have a good enough line of tanks. What I would like to know is this: Are those the maximum amount of shells you can carry, how many you give the people, or just how many slots are for them? Only 35 rounds could cause serious problems in any major engagement.

Hallelujah, success!

Hell, I'll take 100, just because I'm so happy you learned!!!!!!!!

100 will be sended to your nation.
And i think, 4 million each, that will make like 400 million.

And you can have more than 35 rounds, this is standart, it coud be way more if you change it.

I like it, but I already have a good enough line of tanks. What I would like to know is this: Are those the maximum amount of shells you can carry, how many you give the people, or just how many slots are for them? Only 35 rounds could cause serious problems in any major engagement.

I will edit the tank, for more rounds.

Alright then. It just kinda jumped out at me, since any smart tank commander, will carry more than 50 rounds at the very least, or atleast if he can. The tankers will find all sorts of ways to increase ammunition amounts. What about the comfort for the crew? Is the cabin airconditioned, is it heated, etc. These can be very important for the effectiveness of a tank, or any vehicle. I am just telling you these things, because some people will not be so kind. :D

Well, i think they will be a nig part nicer than normal, but i am happy you tell me.
I am very happy with this now, and there is an airco in the tank, it is hot, and you need to remain cool, and alive.

Few things here. How do you fit missiles on a tank? Also I noticed you have four crew members, most modern tanks only have three due to the fact that the weapons automatically load. It is much better then your last tank but it still need's improvement.

This weapon reload itself, but if the tank is hit, and it wont reload itself, there he is!
But i can change that.

O,and missles? With a missle laungher.

The missiles might be mounted on the side of the turret, like a smoke grenade launcher. I'm just trying to help :) A single launcher could be placed behind the commanders hatch, and remote controlled. Then someone has to pop up to reload it, but oh well.

There you got a loader, but the gunner coud do that also, that is not a big probmel.
But, it is way better, so do you want to buy one? To test?
Maybe you coud buy more later.

I already use the M1A2, and the Bradley line, so I'm ok. Nice tank though. What is it classified as?

Normal, standart.

I mean, is it a Light tank, a reconnaisance, a heavy tank, an MBT, or a Medium tank? Or some other form of tank?

It is, for as i know, a heavy. I tryd to arm it as best as i can, very strong.
Yes it is a heavy.

Alright then. Nice tank anyways. You gave quite a bit of info for this tank. Nice job. I suggest adding what I have asked about. You should state it's a Heavy, it's got AC, and heating. These would let people know without having to ask, and so you may get more potential buyers.

Good idea i will.

Excellent design Canedian!

double the weight, then add 5-10 tons.

Why?
Well, alright.

Done. Thank you.

Right now it is light to MBT

It is heavy.

Alright then. I thought 39 tons was too light, but my forte is in WW2 weapons...

Actually, I think it's supposed to be a Light or Recon tank from the original specs.

far more reasonable for what you tried to design.


Reactive Armor goes on top, otherwise you're negating its effectiveness. It's good how you're actually trying to describe armor composition as opposed to saying "400 mm chobham lol"



EDIT: Also, how long is the barrel? Typically, it's described as a ratio of length vs. diameter, termed calibers, so something like a 120mm l44 is 44 times longer than it is wide (120mm.)

No, you cannot just name it heavy because you want it to be. With the kind of equipment you have on it and the amount it should be classified as a MBT. No actually a Light Tank.

True. You have good potential. Maybe Falk, you, and I could create the storefront I wanted to make with Falk...

Alright what you want.
Now, do anybody want to buy one?

I'll buy 10.

As for you Daiwiz, let's do it!

No, you cannot just name it heavy because you want it to be. With the kind of equipment you have on it and the amount it should be classified as a MBT. No actually a Light Tank.


this thing has a 152 mm cannon. also, one does not stuff a 1,500 hp gas turbine into a light tank.

Falkasia, that will be 40 million, 4 million each.

They are moved to your nation, now pay.

Finally! I'll supe up my WW2 weapons, so that they are resellable. We could sell your tank, Canedian. Only if you change it to the specs, which Greston, and others have said. It would be a light tank, possibly even a reconnaissance.

Canedian, that's a bit bruske....Perhaps he gets them within 3 weeks? (2 1/2 hours RL)

I agree, maybe it is light.
But i dont think you may sell my creation.
Than you sell them cheaper, and they will buy at you.

With:
They are moved to your nation.
I mean, they are moving, they didnt arrived yet.

Alright then. I meant, we sell them from the storefront, but you get a lerger portion of the profits, since you developed it. Also, a cannon would not be a tanks main gun. The tanks main weapon is called its gun, a cannon is a fast firing light gun. They normally do not have too huge penetration, or capability.
Falk, what should we name the store? We could talk through TG.

Oh lawl....

just take it here. (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?act=idx)


NSDraftroom - where people have a slightly better idea of what they're talking about.

Yes. That is good, if i get a piece of the money, i agree.
Maybe we coud name it like:
Daiwiz and Canedian army tank store.

Well, Falk will be selling his weapons to. We will be selling: small arms, gus, aircraft, vehicles, and any other weapon we can think of, and can prove we have. It just can't be: ZOMG I have a giant nuclear missile armed planet, the size of the sun! ZOMG, this blows up the Earth! Just keep it realistic.

Well, best of luck with your design Canedian!

Falk, I TGed you about the storefront. Canedian, if you want, just TG me, and the three of us can decide on a name, and everything.

Yea. I got it and responded

Good. I am happy with that.

Cool.

IC:
The money has been wired. All that remains now is for you to deliver the tanks.

They are on there way.

Problems Encountered with Higher Caliber Tank Guns (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1514)

Good to know.

Just go to NSD and the problems will be fixed before you post it here.

the 'Abrams way' is not the only way to do a main battle tank
1. weight :
the T-80 only weighs 46 tons
the T-90 just under 52 tons

2. loader :
you don't need a 4th crewman (loader), you can have an autoloader

don't let people boss you around



side note, sabot rounds are generally designed to be armor piercing, perhaps you should have a mix HEAT and Sabot rounds

You do have to use your imgaination, and also amterials that exist. For instance, maybe much of it is made out of aluminum?

Hey, Aluminum-Titanium alloy 112 is stronger than steel, yet almost three times lighter.

Yea. This is treu.

I'm gonna have to sya my C-43 is made of that :p Canedian, do you have an idea for a name of the store? You ahve to remember that Falk, you, and I will be selling our armaments there.

Canedian Daiwiz store, The tank, like you want it.

Hey, Aluminum-Titanium alloy 112 is stronger than steel, yet almost three times lighter.

Are you insane? Both of those can start Class D fires, which are almost impossible to put out.

Canedian, you have to remember Falk is part of this to. True it does start fires, but maybe we have found a way to modify it, such that it is not as prone to fires?

Adding Tungsten-232 to the mix would effectively reduce the chances of fire.

Also, what if you included an internal "smart" water system inside the armor that would detect breaches and fires, and then expel water to keep it at bay?

wow...We are coming up with alot, to fix Canedians problems. Lol. The water system is a good idea, but it would be far too large.

Not really. It would be possible to shrink it. Put a small water tank on the back of the tank, and have a pump powered by the engine or battery, then run pipes with sensors through the armor plate. All that you'd be elft with was to install a computer or new software!

Also, what if you included an internal "smart" water system inside the armor that would detect breaches and fires, and then expel water to keep it at bay?

Water doesn't put out class D fires. You need sodium chloride or powdered copper.

Perhaps Halon also.

True, but it would have only minor effectiveness, also a fire extinguisher is always your best bet. Perhaps it sprays foam, in said area?

Maybe the excess casings, would be crunched up, then sprayed to put out the class Ds?

Not really. It would be possible to shrink it. Put a small water tank on the back of the tank, and have a pump powered by the engine or battery, then run pipes with sensors through the armor plate. All that you'd be elft with was to install a computer or new software!

Wait, what? You want to run pipes inside the armor plating? Do know how bad of an idea that is? First thing, It wouldn't affectanything because HEAT rounds fire basicly a jet of molten metal into the side. Any water system like that would weaken the armor.

Hmmm, knida a lot of specialized gear to put on a tank, but a chruncher would work.

Wht about putting them on the inside of the armor? Inside the crew compartments basically, although that could cause problems.

Maybe it is powered by the engine? Perhaps the treads are hollow, and the casings fall in there, with a bunch of stones, and sharp objects, that should help crunch up the casings pretty good, but not powder, or shavings.

What about putting out the fire with another explosion?

They tested it on Mythbusters, whether you could put out a fire with C4, and it worked.

true. Didn't know you watched Mythbusters... Maybe they use sound?

What about putting out the fire with another explosion?

They tested it on Mythbusters, whether you could put out a fire with C4, and it worked.

No. Just no. Unless you are suggesting that the men inside the tank, blow themselves up if they catch fire? Then you sir, are stupid than you sound.

true. Didn't know you watched Mythbusters... Maybe they use sound?

Oh dear god. *head explodes from the complete retardation*

Nevermind then. Back to square one.

you could just use a class D fire extinguisher...

you could just use a class D fire extinguisher...

I'm fairly certian that spray salt all over inside a tank is not a very good idea. And copper works best for Lithium fires than anything else.

Gun is far too big. You should look into ETC technology. I'd also reccomend the NS Draftroom, the link is a couple of pages back. Also, a heavy tracked vehicle going at 60mph will rip your tracks to shreds, and unless you are using a gearbox that you expect to blow up every ten minutes, 1500hp and 72 tons do not make 60mph. More like below 40mph.

I'm just trying to help, so you know: the statistics block is good, but a writeup with things like background and more details are better. The folks at the Draftroom may seem harsh, but they are just trying to help. The armour could do with some improvements, too; do you want me to provide links to see what I'm talking about?

Well thank you. I will change it tomorrow, i dont got much time.

I'm fairly certian that spray salt all over inside a tank is not a very good idea. And copper works best for Lithium fires than anything else.
Class D fire extinguishers are not only sodium chloride based, there are also ones that spray powdered copper particles (propelled by nitrogen gas)

also
The gun is not too big, you cant determine how "big" a gun is based only on its bore diameter
the Sheridan had a 152mm gun and the tank weighed 17 tons.

ffs just go to NSD for designs and stop spamming II with one line posts, arg.

Why everybody is talking about MY tank? I designed it, that is how it is.
I cant chance it everytime.
However i dont say i dont want to hear it, i like help.

we have been using II for this purpose long before you joined

Why everybody is talking about MY tank? I designed it, that is how it is.
I cant chance it everytime.
However i dont say i dont want to hear it, i like help.

Then, sign up Here (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?act=idx), and get your designs reviewed please.

Here's some links. A lot of people here use metric, and even more use a combination of both. You could do the conversion to metric in brackets to make everyone happy, there is a good converter at digitaldutch.com (http://www.digitaldutch.com/unitconverter/) for all unit measurements.

As for writeups, yours could do with a bit of history etc.

Link to the Draftroom, again. (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom) It's the best place to go for designs. Really, the people there are brilliant designers with lots of experience.
Lyran LY7 (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=3363). Lyras is one of the best designers, and this is his medium tank/MBT. A bit of advice - don't include anything in your designs until you understand what they are and how they work. If you see a new idea that sounds good, research it first.
My MBT (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=3925). Not as good as Lyras's, but it's the only other example I could think of. See what I mean by all the extra details? Another tip - NEVER copy. Make similar or equivalent by all means, but never copy without special permission.

we have been using II for this purpose long before you joined

perhaps that explains why you're designs are also an epic failure? Or are they meant to be that way?

yes, but this one is my design.
O and do anybody want to buy one?

And all orders arrived at the nations that buyd some.

Then, sign up Here (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?act=idx), and get your designs reviewed please.

thanks.

don't bother, it's much better to have them reviewed here

thanks.

np. ;)

I registerd there, now i have to wait, i cant make a new topic.

don't bother, it's much better to have them reviewed here

You fail epically, may you find leprechauns in your pants.

______________


Validating will take a while, so be patient. Remember, people at the NSD are there to help. Listen to what they say and look things up.

I know, i am waiting.
Later i will make this tank there, to be looked on.

I will open a new OOC treath.
And a IC:
This one coud be used to anyway.

The word is 'thread'

Sorry.

Don't be sorry, you don't seem to be a professor of English, nor does English seem to be your first language. We can understand you, and that's what matters. I'll have to post some of my creations in the draftroom as well....I still like the tank Canedian.

This does appear to be much improved but I have some questions,

1 why is it a lite tank if it weighs 72 tons? ( that's 10 tons more than the Abrams )

2 How did you come up with the figure for the wieght? I'm guessing out figured out how many square feet of 1/2inch thick steel plate the tank
is made out of and multiplied the total dimensions. Then you must have added
the weight of all the other equipment / fuel and weapons ?

3. How have you gotten around the issue of Ground pressure
The heavier a tank is there is a corresponding need to increase it's tread width and length to keep it's overall ground pressure low.
( If the ground pressure becomes too high it will just sink into the ground )

It also is more wear on the treads when you make a tank heavier and increases maintainance requirements. I'd recomend you look at some of the
First World War designs for artillery and the prototypes the Germans had
for Massive tanks to use in World War Two. ( The Great Patriotic war )

It will greatly increase your logistical burden.
Also you'll need new and more special vehicles to carry your tanks, the weight
of these would prohibit their use in most cities.
( it would crush pipes, sewers and anything else burried under streets.)
You'd have to deploy them by rail, which may become a liablity if your
rail roads are struck by your opponent.
And let's not forget that any tank built can still be killed by One Man portable AT missile. Counter measures are good but not fool proof, eventually
they'll get through even the best defense.
Not to mention the Five Hundred pound bomb solution.

No it could be a very usefull tank, under the right circumstances. But It has
alot of issues which until they are worked out I'd hold off on entering it into
a Tank contest.

OH MAN! We should totally have a beauty pagant for tanks on II!
It would be the best rendition of ( you nation here ) 's tanks! All the photo
Shop / Microsoft Painter's would go crazy!
Sorry I digress.

But keep working on it, if you can work out a couple of kinks in the designs
I will probably buy some for technical evaluations.

You make good points...And a tank beauty pagent would be cool lulz. This tank would be calssified heavy, and would probably end up being used as mobile artillery, or a stationary gun.

You should all know that this tank was not designed by Canedian army, he stole it from Falkasia and changed a few numbers slightly.

This is the original tank by Falkasia. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13901224&postcount=15)

boy are they similar.....that kinda gets people thinking...

... Well, that was unexpected.

Not really, but am I disappointed. Good catch Agrandov.

Canedian Army, consider my order cancelled.

Edited to add the current info for Canedian's tank, so it can't be wiped out in a quick edit. Note that the increased weight and ammo capacity, along with the top speeds were changes suggested in this thread, and altered from the original post.

AA-56 Tank:
Typ:light
Airco:Cold
AC: Yes.
Manufacturer: Canedian army tanks
Crew: 3 (Driver,Gunner, Commander)
Weight (pounds): 72 tons
Length: 25'6"
Width: 12'7"
Height: 12'5"
Armor Thickness: 1/2 inch of Steel Plate, 1/4 inch of Depleted Uranium Tiles, 1/4 Reactive Armor Tiles. 1/4 inch Reinforced Titanium Alloy Plate inside Crew Compartment
Forward Speed (Paved): 42 mph
Forward Speed (Cross-Country): 36 mph
Reverse Speed (Paved and Cross-Country): 24 mph
Engine: AGT-1500 turbine engine
Allision TG-250-2A powershift cross drive transmission with 4 forward /2 reverse
Fuel Tank: 316 Gallons
Fuel Consumption: 2.2 MPG
Vertical obstacle climb: 52 in
Maximum width ditch: 110 in
Fording Depth: 48 in
Main Gun: 152mm cannon; 35 Sabot rounds and 25 AP Piercing Rounds
Missile Launcher; 5 TOW Missiles
Coaxial machinegun: M240 - 7.62mm
Commander's machinegun: M2 - .50 cal
Sensors and Fire Control: M140 Gunner's Ranging and Firing Computer, IR SACLOS data link, Radio/GPS Command Link, MK3 IPD (Incoming Projectile Deflection) Computer
Price: 4,000,000 USD

And Falkasia's:

T-11 Light Tank:
Manufacturer: Falkasian Armored Designs
*Crew: 3 (Driver, Loader/Gunner, Commander)
Weight (pounds): 29 tons
Length: 25'4"
Width: 12'6"
Height: 12'6"
Armor Thickness: 1/2 inch of Steel Plate, 1/4 inch of Depleted Uranium Tiles, 1/4 Reactive Armor Tiles. 1/4 inch Reinforced Titanium Alloy Plate inside Crew Compartment
Forward Speed (Paved): 65 mph
Forward Speed (Cross-Country): 45 mph
Reverse Speed (Paved and Cross-Country): 30 mph
Engine: AGT-1500 turbine engine
Allision TG-250-2A powershift cross drive transmission with 4 forward /2 reverse
Fuel Tank: 317 Gallons
Fuel Consumption: 2.3 MPG
Vertical obstacle climb: 51 in
Maximum width ditch: 110 in
Fording Depth: 48 in
Main Gun: 152mm cannon; 20 Sabot rounds and 15 AP Piercing Rounds
Missile Launcher; 5 TOW Missiles
Coaxial machinegun: M240 - 7.62mm
Commander's machinegun: M2 - .50 cal
Sensors and Fire Control: M140 Gunner's Ranging and Firing Computer, IR SACLOS data link, Radio/GPS Command Link, MK3 IPD (Incoming Projectile Deflection) Computer
Price: 3,000,000 USD

good point....

They do Have an awfull lot of similarity.

That armor's LOL. Less than 100 mm RHA equivalent, if my calculations are right. (Uranium = RHA x 4, Ti= RHA x 1.2-3)
12.5 mm RHA + 6.35 mm Uranium + 6.35 mm Ti = not much armor.

Note an old Soviet RPG-7 has a penetration of about 500mm RHA.

Those two tanks are scaringly similar.

I sent a message about it to Falkasia but they seem either unbothered or too busy to
care.
So I guess it's Kosher for now.

I would really beef up that Armor though!
( shudders at the thought of being the crew in a fight )

That armor's LOL. Less than 100 mm RHA equivalent, if my calculations are right. (Uranium = RHA x 4, Ti= RHA x 1.2-3)
12.5 mm RHA + 6.35 mm Uranium + 6.35 mm Ti = not much armor.

Note an old Soviet RPG-7 has a penetration of about 500mm RHA.

The RPG would blow through one side and out of the other!

" Ouch Time!," That Gungan from Star Wars Episode One

I sent a message about it to Falkasia but they seem either unbothered or too busy to
care.
So I guess it's Kosher for now.

I would really beef up that Armor though!
( shudders at the thought of being the crew in a fight )

It could be that Falkasia hasn't been online since yesterday, as well.

The armor does need altering though, considering it was originally for a 30 ton Falkasian light tank, not a 70 ton Canedian MBT.

... That n00b

Good old CSJ had a nice thread on tank design...

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=288671

Wow. Those tanks are nearly identical, coincidence? I think not.

Falk doesn't seem to care about too much, except his RPs, and internet friends (like me!) He probably doesn't give a rats ass about it. But the armor is lol.
"Sir we have a Canedian MBt heading our way! Oh shit! What are we gonna do, sarge?"
"Toss rocks at it, they go through one side and out the other!"
"Yes sir!" tosses a pebbel, and the tank blows up.
"Nice shot Rambo!"

Falk doesn't seem to care about too much, except his RPs, and internet friends (like me!) He probably doesn't give a rats ass about it. But the armor is lol.
"Sir we have a Canedian MBt heading our way! Oh shit! What are we gonna do, sarge?"
"Toss rocks at it, they go through one side and out the other!"
"Yes sir!" tosses a pebbel, and the tank blows up.
"Nice shot Rambo!"

Well, as long as Falk's aware his designs are being ripped off...

lol at your Anti-Tank troops

They use the most advanced techniques...

See, if I were up against one of these AA-56 tanks, I'd issue my troops slingshots w/ depleted uranium pellets.

Modern technology FTW :)

yeah but that's expensive! Also, it's overkill.

My defense budget is almost $1.2 trillion... compared to what I'd be spending otherwise for ATGMs, it's worth it.

As for overkill, well... I like big booms

so do I, but the rocks make a nice mushroom cloud...Without poisoning your troops. Maybe they could be a speacialty squad? The Salzland youth? I mean, they probably already use slingshots on windows buses etc lol. Maybe a cherry bomb...

You Know how they love to throw rocks at tanks!

Oh, it's not like my troops'd have to worry about radiation poisoning, five minutes of exposure and they'd probably have wiped out an entire army's worth of these. Us being slingshot hooligans and all

You should all know that this tank was not designed by Canedian army, he stole it from Falkasia and changed a few numbers slightly.

This is the original tank by Falkasia. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13901224&postcount=15)

It was designed by Canedian. I gave him permission to use the design.

That's that then, thanks for clearing it up.

Edited to say that for future reference, it would've been helpful if CA had noted that he was using a Falkasian design, under license.

Absolutely.

O sorry, i didnt know i needed to say that, but i will change now.