NationStates Jolt Archive

REALISTIC SCENARIO
A New Techspace (Sort of)

...when diplomacy doesn't go much further than "Stop that. Or I'll colonise you." then it [the game] loses a little interest.

Zinaire is one of the few nations that has elected to reduce its population dramatically (200 million, down from almost 700 million) in order to play NS in a more realistic and challenging manner. Other early adopters include Nova Pictavia (now playing as Pictlands) and Barronia who recently joined the movement with Brittanican Adenia.

The Reasons for a Separate Designation

One of the main concerns nations have with capping their population (i.e., setting their population at a constant level lower than the number that NS gives) is that even if they chose to play realistically, everyone else won't and when there are nations with populations in the multi-billions, the last thing you want to do is reduce your own power, leaving your nation vulnerable.

That's why it's high time for a pseudo-techspace (more on this later) just for nations that have chosen to add realism to their nation. Just as it would be poor form for an FT nation to crash a MT roleplay and vaporize everyone with ray guns, it's henceforth poor form for a conventional (non-realistic) MT nation to come in and steamroll a capped population MT nation. Simply putting "RS" for "Realistic Scenario" in the title of a RP will insure safety from unrealistically large nations.

In some ways though, this works like a one-way door. Just as we would allow or even applaud the brave MT nation that would go head to head with a more advanced FT nation, RS nations are more than welcome to interact with the nations of the general MT techspace.

Why a Techspace?

It is important to realize than RS is very different from RL tech. RS nations are free to use the plentiful MT designs made just for NationStates in their RPs so RS is not really a techspace. However, techspaces are currently the only systems in place to limit interactions between nations based on how they choose to play the game. But because RS has nothing to do with technology, it is more appropriate to call it a pseudo-techspace.

Economic and Military Consequences

Obviously, when the population shrinks, the military and the economy do too.

Military

The military is pretty straightforward, simply calculate 0.25-3% (none of this 5% business, North Korea and Eritrea (I've never heard of it either) are the only nations even close to a 5% enlistment rate) of your new, capped population. Here (http://www.csgnetwork.com/csgpercent.html) is a percentage calculator for your convenience.

The amount of logistics:combat personnel can be calculated as follows (all numbers courtesy of Alfegos):

Army: 1:1 (for a crap Army with little mechanization) to 5:1 or more for a decent army.

Air Force: 5:1 (for an air force full of kamikazes flying horrible planes) to 50:1 for an "ultra-modern überforce."

Navy: 5:1 (for a sucky navy) to 20:1 for a good one.

Generally, the higher the enlistment percentage, the worse your military will be be (because it's harder to train and equip ten million troops than it is one million).

Economy

Calculating your new economic figures is slightly more complicated, especially if you take into account economic decline caused by a smaller population (as differentiated from economic decline which is directly correlated with a smaller population). Below are some basic formulas based of numbers you can pull from any calculator:

(O)X = the official number given by a calculator, X being another variable such as P or GDP
P = population
R = the ratio of your official population to your capped one which can be calculated as P/(O)P
B = government budget (adjusted for waste)

GDP: (O)GPD/C * P = GDP or (O)GDP/R = GDP
Budget: (O)B/R = B
Any Number: (O)X/R = X

Departmental budgets (defense, law & order, etc.) can be based off a calculator's numbers or your own whims (but, as always, "realism" is the word, so don't go making your budget 100% defense).

Alternatively, you can use...

The Alfegos System

Named after the nation that developed it, the Alfegos System is a less calculator-reliant system for calculating economic details.

To calculate GDP, select a reasonable GDP/PC (for reference, RL GDP/PCs range from $55 dollars (let's all laugh at Zimbabwe!) to over a $100,000 in the tiny European paradise of Luxembourg. A full list can be found here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita)) then multiply it by your population. The resulting number is your GDP. Further calculations are done with a NS calculator. Here's a catch-all formula:

GDP/(O)GDP = R2 (O)X/R2 = X

These systems are just here to help and if you have your own system of calculating the economy or military (which doesn't involve the assumption that your nation was built on oil-soaked gold that, when consumed, makes soldiers invincible), you're free to use it. Any system that takes into account the size of your country and other relevant factors is 100% a-okay.

The Rules of RS

While the first two rules are absolutely mandatory (as they are the basis of the movement) while the third is a more a challenge to run a realistic nation.

1. Obviously the big one, limit your population to a more reasonable number. Anything from a tiny, Moncacoesque nation with 30,000 people (for a challenge even among RS nations) to a larger, China-like nation with a billion people (and all the difficulties involved with such a large population). One billion should be the absolute maximum.
2. Limit your military and economic strength based on your new population and the parameters above.
3. Try to run your nation in a realistic manner (but feel free to keep the quirks that make your nation special). This may include buying only NSD-reviewed products, balancing the national budget and not doing things that not even North Korea would think about.

Some Other Notes

- Feel free to start a second nation for RS and. If you want, start from scratch with a population of five million (which you can grow before eventually capping it) or you can start with the population you want (as long as you have another nation with a population equal to or greater than the number you have chosen).
- Don't get too uptight about realism. The primary parts of RS (limiting your population, economy and military) are very simple and still allow you to sculpt your nation however you please.
- As an RS nation, you have reason to ignore a regular MT nation that has crashed a RS-specific RP, but once you enter a normal MT RP, you have to be willing to take whatever gets thrown at you.

tl;dr?

1. RS stands for Realistic Scenario
2. In many ways, RS acts like a techspace, but the technology used it no different from conventional MT tech.
3. RS nations limit their population to a realistic number and adjust their military and economic strength according.
4. Listing a RP as RS protects it from predatory nations that have not limited their populations.
5. RS nations are free to interact with non-capped MT nations too, at their own risk.

In Closing

I know some of you will have a problem with this ("it's just a game", "the non-realism makes it fun", blah blah blah) but let those of us who want to play at a more realistic level do so in peace. Feel free to post constructive criticism for improving the RS philosophy but I reserve the right to punch the first person that says either of the things I predicted the naysayers would (read up).

Nations Participating in RS (19)

- Zinaire [~200 million]
- Alfegos [~300 million]
- Amastol (unofficial)
- Nova Pictavia as Pictland [~127 million]
- Nova Pictavia as The Azure Archipelago [~31 million]
- Barronia as Brittanican Adenia
- Piccavia [~412 million]
- Akimonad as Old Mandalay
- Faxanavia as Gourmondinia [~7.5 million]
- Lord Sumguy as Enkavia [~100 million]
- Paloni
- Minor Parties
- Santheres as Seina [~233 million]
- Velkya
- South Thasland
- Vetalia [~110 million]
- Brutland and Norden as Norden and Brutland [~100 million]
- Kargrazia [~3 million]
- Nikovalusca [~7 million]

Sign up your nation (or a puppet) today!

Meh, you had me interested until I saw it restricted to MT only.

Meh, you had me interested until I saw it restricted to MT only.

You're free to start a FT or PMT chapter. It's just that there's no way to know what will be realistic in the future.

I've always followed having a lower population than stated on my page (300 million instead of whatever it is now). However, I use a different system of calculating my nation's wealth and military, meaning I will be absent from this project for now. Thanks!

I've always followed having a lower population than stated on my page (300 million instead of whatever it is now). However, I use a different system of calculating my nation's wealth and military, meaning I will be absent from this project for now. Thanks!

Well, what's your system? I'll bet you my entire environment budget for a year that it's better.

I use the system of KISS - I use the lower population, and what the NSEconomy thing says is my GDP, (with a couple of tweaks of course). As for military, I use the standard 1% rule: a maximum of 3 million people in the professional armed forces at any one time. Normally it's split as 1.2 million army, 1.1 million navy, 500 000 airforce and 200 000 air fleet. This includes all logistics, at a ratio of about 1:1 army, 5:1 navy, 20:1 air force and 18:1 air fleet. The air fleet is a strange quirk of my nation which you don't need to worry about for now!

An interesting proposition Zinaire and something i've been contemplating as i've been re-working the statistics for my own nation. A 10billion nation is ridiculous unless i move into FT and even then attempting to reconcille my political philosophy with my population would require about three seperate planets to manage.

I look at population/technology/economy as operating within a zero-sum account. In reducing my population i acquire a "surplus"which represents additional productivity but of course i wouldn't advocate it being a totally effecient conversion and a fair proportion of this surplus is lost in the conversion process. Nevertheless i feel justified in playing a smaller nation with a larger economy/tech base than the game allocate me (within reason of course).

I don't see what's so different. As long as your "couple tweaks" bring it into line with your population, there's no difference.

An interesting proposition Zinaire and something i've been contemplating as i've been re-working the statistics for my own nation. A 10billion nation is ridiculous unless i move into FT and even then attempting to reconcille my political philosophy with my population would require about three seperate planets to manage.

I look at population/technology/economy as operating within a zero-sum account. In reducing my population i acquire a "surplus"which represents additional productivity but of course i wouldn't advocate it being a totally effecient conversion and a fair proportion of this surplus is lost in the conversion process. Nevertheless i feel justified in playing a smaller nation with a larger economy/tech base than the game allocate me (within reason of course).

That's interesting. I think that among normal MT players, it's totally justified to give yourself a little extra for competition's sake. Not sure if I agree among other RS nations though.

Perhaps if i was in a better financial situation i'd be more inclined to agree however i've had the stuffing kicked out of my nation since re-booting (it's only been about a week) so i'll just shrug and play the game this way for now.

Also might i suggest this be moved to gameplay since it's not really an IC "internaitonal incident" ?

Gameplay (as I understand it) is for issues related to playing the actual game of NationStates while this is related to RPing.

It's different because I don't use a formula - I use gut instinct for the wealth side (a bit like my prices in old store fronts *DON'T TELL ANYONE!*). But in a way, I have been a bad boy in terms of often just using the straight figure for GDP (GDP/capita of $80 000 FTW!).

This is interesting - a bit like AMW except not restricted to the Map of Earth. And don't worry, it belongs here in the II forum.

It's different because I don't use a formula - I use gut instinct for the wealth side (a bit like my prices in old store fronts *DON'T TELL ANYONE!*). But in a way, I have been a bad boy in terms of often just using the straight figure for GDP (GDP/capita of $80 000 FTW!).
Hmm, now that you mention it, I realize that I how I wrote it, it sounds like those formulas are how all RS nations are required to calculate their economies. Really, they're more just guides for nations who otherwise would have no idea how to get the real numbers.

Right you are. Thing is, your nation's GDP depends on the sort of nation economy you want. You could have a super-China, or a poor monaco. The best way of working that out is by having a GDP per Capita that you want (in my case, £30 000 per capita, or $60 000), and then multiplying it by the desired population (with me, my GDP would therefore be $1.8 trillion). Then, for the military, use the ratios depending on the type you want: 50:1 in the air force if it's an ultra-modern uberforce; down to 5:1 if it's one that relies on suicide pilots in cheap (rubbish) aircraft.

If you have MSN, we can discuss this much better. I'll TG you my address.

That makes quite a bit of sense, although I would feel obligated to kick anyone who was essentially abusing the system by creating the best possible RS-permitted nation (a super-China). I'll post your system as an alternate method of calculation.

Nice work, Zinaire. I believe you should contact Amastol (formerly Mekugi) who restarted with a capped population. Also, perhaps it would be useful to list the actual RP-ing populations of nations next to their names.

- Nova Pictavia (as Pictlands), unofficial

If you could alter the above to read "Pictland (formerly Nova Pictavia), official" [~127 million] that would be great. If needs be it could be linked to the NS nation "Pictlands". Also you may add "The Azure Archipelago, official" [~31 million]. Thanks very much.

I believe because of the formulae presented that this thread should be considered for listing in the consolidated sticky, as it is a valuable resource for those who want to RP realistically and also lists nations who the player could contact.

Ooh, this sounds rather interesting. Sign me up.

Well, you can count me in. I'll be using one of my alts, a nation called the Parliamentary Kingdom of Gourmondinia, because I'm too lazy to cap my main. Some brief information:

Name: The Parliamentary Kingdom of Gourmondinia
Governmental style: Monarchist with a parliament who act as representatives of the people.
Population: 7.5 million
Notable geographic features: Gourmondinia is split down the middle by a narrow canal, similar to the Panama canal, which acts as an artificial waterway for much of the world's traffic.

This okay, or do you need more?

Was interested until I realised how poorly my nation could support itself. Already with my current population the population per sq km is 1.5, per sq mi 3.9. If I lower it any more then essentially you could travel for days or weeks without seeing a single person. Just ice.

EDIT: Then again, I may join in as an RS version of Soviet Republik. It could be interesting.

Was interested until I realised how poorly my nation could support itself. Already with my current population the population per sq km is 1.5, per sq mi 3.9. If I lower it any more then essentially you could travel for days or weeks without seeing a single person. Just ice.

EDIT: Then again, I may join in as an RS version of Soviet Republik. It could be interesting.

Shrink yo nation, then?

A couple of points, Zinaire, that Aki pointed out to me on IRC: RS really does read like a separate entity from mainstream NS in some ways, like an Earth for example, rather than just a different perspective on RPing your nation. Essentially, I believe that RPing with regular MT nations seems somewhat discouraged in the text of the first post, which I would be extremely adverse to. You aren't simply opening yourself to the consequences of RPing in the MT world at all, as RPs between players are often planned and/or coordinated, with limits, so to speak, discussed between each player. What I'm trying to say is, you don't necessarily lose control of your nation to the billions of hungry hordes if you deviate from RS, unless of course you mark a thread as "wide open" or something equally stupid.

Please tell me if what I've just tried to say didn't make sense, and I'll have another go at it :S

Cheers mate.

EDIT: Also I capped the populations of my two nations for a variety of reasons including, it must be said; realism. However foremost to this action was my desire to get around the whole population-power-politics of NS, and concentrate more on actual RPing. In other words, quality over quantity. Also aiding my decision was my chronically lazy attitude towards having to constantly update my armed forces et cetera with having a constantly growing-nation, plus as Aki so decisively put it:

[Picts] really didn't know what to do with 2 billion people anyway.

<3 Aki.

Blarg. Put Old Mandalay up and I'll figure out what the fixed pop will be.

I put Saint Bryce on a formula: The NS population divided by 1,000,000. My current population is 2.65 billion, but for RP purposes and to maintain the character of my nation I oped to divide the population by a million: ~2,650 people. Once it reaches 3,000 I plan to keep it constant.

This is a very nice initiative; I really hated my stats going outdated within just a few months and having to adjust it when my population doubles or triples. I'm still thinkin' of joining my other or my main nation; still doesn't have time to calculate adjusted stats that will be constant. Willmost likely join when I overhaul my factbook.

Right you are. Thing is, your nation's GDP depends on the sort of nation economy you want. You could have a super-China, or a poor monaco. The best way of working that out is by having a GDP per Capita that you want (in my case, £30 000 per capita, or $60 000), and then multiplying it by the desired population (with me, my GDP would therefore be $1.8 trillion). Then, for the military, use the ratios depending on the type you want: 50:1 in the air force if it's an ultra-modern uberforce; down to 5:1 if it's one that relies on suicide pilots in cheap (rubbish) aircraft.

If you have MSN, we can discuss this much better. I'll TG you my address.

I think this is another good way of deciding how to determine your reduced population. I've been looking at and comparing different 'base units' such as population density and GDP/capita and then using that to determine what my RP population should be if i want to emulate a certain aspect of a RL nation. e.g if i have an RP area of 7,000,000kmsq (something outside the game to determine for me) and i want a population density of Australia figuiring my population is simply 7,000,000 x 2.6 = 18,200,000 people.

This gives me a suprlus factor of about 590 (e.g. my game population of 10,750,000,000/18,200,000) to take the edge of this surplus i might introduce a "conversion tax" of 100 which although high will allow me justify a mild compensation for my population sacrifice. I can then apply my surplus factor of 5.9 and use this number to redistribute my surplus population productivity into my economy. e.g. 5.9 x my GDP/capita of $10,600 = $62,540 for RP use. Since my population is capped i can more accurately base my role play from this figure and develop a more accurate and stable perception of how my nation operates.

Of cause this is all very arbitrary. But it's an example of the method i explained earlier and utilises the principle mentioned above of working out your population not from a prefixed number but by an alternaive consideration such as density or GDP/capita and then compensating for the lost differential in your population sacrifice. Anyway, just some thoughts.

This is definately becoming a trend.

Now, I applaud Zinaire for organising this pseudo-techspace for the use of Realist nations. However, I will not be joining. I see the huge populations and the overlarge size of landmasses, oceans, etc. as part of the fun of NS. I see the Kiravian Empire as being kind of like RL China: Big, seemingly homogenous, but extremely diverse. Truth be told, as an ethnologic and demographic enthusiast, I see having a titanic population as a scource of enjoyment and a sphere within which I can build my nation.

The SFR region has been doing this privately since ~2003/04 and we are pleased to see this kicked off more publicly. Zinaire, congratulations on a well worded and thought out opening post that nicely describes the easy concepts that the SFR's tested for some years now. Nations such as The Silver Sky, Velkya, Kilrany, and Russkya, while perhaps not willing to join in on [RS] directly (I can't speak for the others) would most likely be interested in RP'ing with you in the future.

Does RS have a place for the minor parties of the world? (Groups that have no real country, corporations, Mercenaries, Rebels, etc.?) I'm trying a new RP style out myself, where i play as 15-20 different orginizations rather than a country.

Does RS have a place for the minor parties of the world? (Groups that have no real country, corporations, Mercenaries, Rebels, etc.?) I'm trying a new RP style out myself, where i play as 15-20 different orginizations rather than a country.

I don't see why it wouldn't, so long as they didn't join up to a massive 2-3 billion people and start acting as a unified force.

Sign up my puppet state, Enkavia. Im gonna take a shot at beign an evil coporate-run dictatorship.

I don't see why it wouldn't, so long as they didn't join up to a massive 2-3 billion people and start acting as a unified force.

Illuminati! New World or-*Shotgun Blast*

Sign me up. I'll be a city state of an as ye unknown population. No regular military, could be interesting.

Also, if anyone wants me to RP a citizen/group in your nation, TG me.

I'm tempted to start an MT puppet just so I can try this out. This looks quite interesting, I'll give it some thought.

Bump because it's a good idea

Wow, thanks for all the support guys. I added those of you that signed up to the list. I'll be out of town for two days and I'll make any major changes to the OP when I get back.

I'd like to sign up as several different international corperations (Along with sub-groups that other members of the RS Tech-list ask me to make.)

Hmm, I could do this with my puppet. Seina has only 220 million. It'd be no good to completely ignore this when I've been trying to get into decent, lasting RPs with people who can write.

But to create a new factbook, that is something I don't want to do. I write a lot of background, even if it's not all public. Though I do suppose I could simplify it a ton and just have the military figures and a standard Western government style and culture like most everyone else.

Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be making a RS thread for Corperations you can hire, please let me know if you have any good ideas, so far i have:

Exops: Private Mercenaries, Uses modern equipment, but WW2 and Cold War vehicles. Also operates F-16s, F-15s, and F-117s, purchased from mothball locations and put back into service.

Strategic Services: WMD Safety, Security, and disabling.

MacroComp: Computer company, Develops electronics and advanced government communications programs.

Restoring Society: Sells outdated and refurbished equipment. (Anything from the cold war or second world war can be purchased, in amounts that are sain, say 800 T-34/85's)

Al-Assad: Muslim Warrior society (Any muslim nation will receive protection and training from them)

Gremman: Continually works on modifications to standard aircraft. Notable craft include most of the Miyokan and some of the Sukoi Lines of aircraft modified for naval service.

Indeed, the SFR has been at this for a very long time, however, sign me up.

Bump for awesomeness.

Bump For intrest, also, note the new corperations for hire.

Aww, Nobody wants to join? are you people afraid of big numbers and calculators?

MP, you ought to bump only (max) once daily... Especially since it's not your own thread... I realize you're doing him a favor, but mods frown on excessive bumping.

There are MODS on these forums? Who knew? I'd think it'd be impossible to police this place.

I see some old friends in this. Sign me up, and give me a few days to figure out some revised stats.

Also, if anyone wants me to RP a citizen/group in your nation, TG me.

Check TG's, Sèr.

That was for members of RS, but OK...

Zinaire, sign me up officially - I'll cap Piccavia at around 412 million.

I've wanted to RP a militaristic, fascist state that can actually win a war, or at least put up one hell of a fight before actually being conquered and occupied by its enemies.

I'll knock this country down to around 100-120 million or so with a very high (i.e. $50,000 GDP per capita), advanced technology and a high quality military, with the strength stemming primarily from tactical ability and firepower rather than human waves. Obviously, allies would be key...any nations on the right-wing/authoritarian side would be ripe for inclusion in to our Axis, of course.

Weaknesses for my nation be our relatively low manpower and vulnerability to drawn-out wars of attrition. If necessary, I might reduce our resource abundance to give us a few key resource issues that a skilled air force or navy could interrupt with corresponding consequences. Also, high-tech equipment requires a correspondingly strong infrastructure so strategic bombing would actually carry some weight. I also want to RP some truly vile people...Vetalia needs its Hitler, Heydrich or Eichmann to really make it something threatening.

Long story short, I don't want to see 15 million troops and 10,000 planes engage my forces and I don't want to send 15 million troops and 10,000 planes in to battle. Numbers need meaning again and I'd be very enthusiastic about pursuing something like this.

Just the other day I was thinking that it'd be cool tocreat a region populated solely by population capped nations. I've put too much time into Tolvan to cap it but I may create a puppet for this.

I've wanted to RP a militaristic, fascist state that can actually win a war, or at least put up one hell of a fight before actually being conquered and occupied by its enemies.

I'll knock this country down to around 100-120 million or so with a very high (i.e. $50,000 GDP per capita), advanced technology and a high quality military, with the strength stemming primarily from tactical ability and firepower rather than human waves. Obviously, allies would be key...any nations on the right-wing/authoritarian side would be ripe for inclusion in to our Axis, of course.

Weaknesses for my nation be our relatively low manpower and vulnerability to drawn-out wars of attrition. If necessary, I might reduce our resource abundance to give us a few key resource issues that a skilled air force or navy could interrupt with corresponding consequences. Also, high-tech equipment requires a correspondingly strong infrastructure so strategic bombing would actually carry some weight. I also want to RP some truly vile people...Vetalia needs its Hitler, Heydrich or Eichmann to really make it something threatening.

Long story short, I don't want to see 15 million troops and 10,000 planes engage my forces and I don't want to send 15 million troops and 10,000 planes in to battle. Numbers need meaning again and I'd be very enthusiastic about pursuing something like this.

Count me in for that axis, I plan on being an evil corporate dictatorship. (this being a puppet of LS)

Count me in for that axis, I plan on being an evil corporate dictatorship. (this being a puppet of LS)

Excellent, excellent. I've got a lot of work to do rebuilding my government and society, but I think it will turn out well.

I've wanted to RP a militaristic, fascist state that can actually win a war, or at least put up one hell of a fight before actually being conquered and occupied by its enemies.

I'll knock this country down to around 100-120 million or so with a very high (i.e. $50,000 GDP per capita), advanced technology and a high quality military, with the strength stemming primarily from tactical ability and firepower rather than human waves. Obviously, allies would be key...any nations on the right-wing/authoritarian side would be ripe for inclusion in to our Axis, of course.

Weaknesses for my nation be our relatively low manpower and vulnerability to drawn-out wars of attrition. If necessary, I might reduce our resource abundance to give us a few key resource issues that a skilled air force or navy could interrupt with corresponding consequences. Also, high-tech equipment requires a correspondingly strong infrastructure so strategic bombing would actually carry some weight. I also want to RP some truly vile people...Vetalia needs its Hitler, Heydrich or Eichmann to really make it something threatening.

Long story short, I don't want to see 15 million troops and 10,000 planes engage my forces and I don't want to send 15 million troops and 10,000 planes in to battle. Numbers need meaning again and I'd be very enthusiastic about pursuing something like this.

Miss me, Vet? :P Count my militaristic, demagogish quasi-dictatorship in on your Axis.

Miss me, Vet? :P Count my militaristic, demagogish quasi-dictatorship in on your Axis.

Who wouldn't miss our country's most...colorful...allies?

As you know, our country's never been one to shy away from militaristic, demagogish quasi-dictatorships in the past...this time, though, we don't have to worry about being wiped off of the planet by a nuclear arsenal capable of irradiating the inner planets.

I think our forces will be able to achieve a lot more in this environment, perhaps a nice bit of lebensraum carved out of enemy territory or a swath of puppet states. A lot more...of course, we'll have to make sure we don't repeat the mistakes of the real Axis.

Who wouldn't miss our country's most...colorful...allies?

As you know, our country's never been one to shy away from militaristic, demagogish quasi-dictatorships in the past...this time, though, we don't have to worry about being wiped off of the planet by a nuclear arsenal capable of irradiating the inner planets.

I think our forces will be able to achieve a lot more in this environment, perhaps a nice bit of lebensraum carved out of enemy territory or a swath of puppet states. A lot more...of course, we'll have to make sure we don't repeat the mistakes of the real Axis.

I would imagine so too; in a realm of limited population, it's much easier to avoid the catastrophic steamrolls of hundreds of thousands of cruise missiles that AMF used against me during his second invasion.

I would imagine so too; in a realm of limited population, it's much easier to avoid the catastrophic steamrolls of hundreds of thousands of cruise missiles that AMF used against me during his second invasion.

It also gives more room for maneuvering and IRL tactics; it's rather problematic

Not to mention it makes things a little more symmetric; whereas a 5 million population nation has no chance of winning a war against a billion-plus superpower, in a reduced pop/resources situation they can wage a costly guerrilla war that will easily be sufficient to make an occupier rethink their strategy.

Plus, I think there's more room for international diplomacy; you wouldn't have nations launching gigantic WMD exchanges without consequences, nor would it be easy for a nation to march in and annex another state unless they have very powerful friends.

Sign this puppet up; this will be the RS version of my main nation (if you hadn't figured it out yet... :rolleyes:) So it'll be just the same, only with different stats. Yet to decide its population; perhaps something around the figure for Mexico (~100 million) for easy counting.

I had thought about applying with Kargrazia to AMW, which someone already mentioned in this thread, but since it has limited territory and I'm not always highly active around here I didn't want to take up space. Since this doesn't seem to come with a map, I guess that Kargrazia can just drift aimlessly about in it when I'm busy, right?

All right, the Dictatorship of Kragrazia (yes, we really call ourselves that, officially considering it a revolutionary platform from which to advance), AKA Dictatika é Cirisie (local long form or Cirisra (local short form), has at the last census (2006) 2,998,749 citizens in a land 21,387 kilometres square. With its capital at Cetch, Kargrazia has been under the iron-fisted rule of Premier Antoi Bexhi since a 1976 coup within the Party of National Labour (Kargrazia's branch of the Communist Party) against then-Premier Rem Bahui, whom Bexhi denounced as revisionist.

Bexhi sees counter-revolution and revisionism everywhere, and Kargrazia under his rule has become autarkic (it conducts little or no foreign trade and abandons anything in which it can not achieve self-sufficiency).

I don't plan to exactly define the economy in dollar terms, because there wouldn't be much point. Kargrazian currency is not officially convertible, and with virtually no foreign trade, who cares, anyway? Suffice to say that, for getting around, you can't beat a good donkey (unless it strays across provincial lines without identification papers) and the telephones are still on sticks... though you're not allowed to touch them without a specific permit from somebody you can get in touch with at the following number... ;)

With just three million citizens, the nation supports 45,000 regular military personnel and 105,000 reservists. With just 1.2km of coastline, the naval forces are close to non-existent, while without outside assistance it is anyone's guess as to how the nation's aircraft are doing. The military is thought to be chiefly a straight-leg infantry force of conscripts employed mostly in keeping the Premier in power and the people in the country rather than keeping invaders out.

Still, if these Fascists we're hearing about want to take on a friendless ultra hardline Stalinist nation of just three million, they're welcome to have a crack ;)

So, Kargrazia, 3 million people.

There are MODS on these forums? Who knew? I'd think it'd be impossible to police this place.

*Waves* It does try our patience sometimes, I must admit ... :D

I'm halfway interested in getting involved in this concept myself ... except that the recent deletion of every Jolt account which hadn't posted for a year has left all my puppets stranded on the far side of the game/forum interface! Woe is me. I may yet start a new one, who knows.

Since Zinaire will be absent for the next couple of days, I'll try and fill in what I'm sure he'd say anyway. Plus I'd really like to see this concept get off the ground, especially since I never knew so many others were interested in RS.

Indeed, the SFR has been at this for a very long time, however, sign me up.

I actually had no idea, I thought Myself, Amastol and Zinaire were somewhat alone in this. Nevertheless it would be good to have you and anyone else from the SFR who wishes to take part.

There are MODS on these forums? Who knew? I'd think it'd be impossible to police this place.

Welcome to NS! If you didn't know their were mods I'd advise browsing through the One-Stop Rules Shoop (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=416023) (Moderation Forum (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=1231)) to get acquainted with the rules of the forum. Also a look through the International Incidents Consolidated sticky (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=543994) wouldn't hurt either. This is of course presuming you weren't being sarcastic in your previous post.

I see some old friends in this. Sign me up, and give me a few days to figure out some revised stats.

Glad to see you, mate. I note that you've not replied to my last TG though D:

Check TG's, Sèr.

Kirav, you could always create a puppet ( or use one of the many I'm sure you've got floating around) for the purposes of RS if you'd rather not include Kirav.

I'll knock this country down to around 100-120 million or so with a very high (i.e. $50,000 GDP per capita), advanced technology and a high quality military, with the strength stemming primarily from tactical ability and firepower rather than human waves.

OUt of interest, I had a look at your in-game GDPpc is: 45,000USD (depending on calculators), so that scenario would fit rather well with your nation.

Sign this puppet up; this will be the RS version of my main nation (if you hadn't figured it out yet... :rolleyes:) So it'll be just the same, only with different stats. Yet to decide its population; perhaps something around the figure for Mexico (~100 million) for easy counting.

Glad to see you here as well, Brutland (see first post, I also RP as The Azure Archipelago).

*Waves* It does try our patience sometimes, I must admit ... :D

I'm halfway interested in getting involved in this concept myself ... except that the recent deletion of every Jolt account which hadn't posted for a year has left all my puppets stranded on the far side of the game/forum interface! Woe is me. I may yet start a new one, who knows.

Gutted mate. Although since NS populations grow at a terrifying rate, and of course the formulae for calculating your new national figures work both-ways, there's no reason why you couldn't create a new nation and start straight-off from your desired population (within reason).

That was my midnight attempt at good humor, Pict.

That was my midnight attempt at good humor, Pict.

I thought about that much, but of course a few links doesn't hurt just in case. Please call me Picts.

Everyone: Note the hireable corperations/parties in my Sig. That's specifically for YOU, RS players.

Miss me, Vet? :P Count my militaristic, demagogish quasi-dictatorship in on your Axis.

Aaah shoot. Being a tiny, not militarily powerful nation with an important waterway, I give it about three seconds before the axis pwns Gourmondinia.

Aaah shoot. Being a tiny, not militarily powerful nation with an important waterway, I give it about three seconds before the axis pwns Gourmondinia.

Nah. I at least will be going after Paloni first.

Nah. Pictland will be going after YOU D:<

Glad to see you, mate. I note that you've not replied to my last TG though D:


Mmm. Check again.

Nah. Pictland will be going after YOU D:<

i look forward to it. my RS intro is up btw: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=562432

Please add the Holy Republic of Nikovalusca to the list. I'm thinking of capping my pop at 7 million, just because this is my first time playing MT and I think a small population will be easier to manage. It'll be a nice little well-off nation with a small but well-equipped and well-trained army and gendarmerie.

I'm also considering joining that Axis you guys are talking about. Nikovans aren't fascists, but about 70% of them are LaVeyan Satanists, as that is the official state religion, and the whole "Woe to the conquered, for he is destined to be a slave forever" thing kinda relates. Besides, a nation the size of Israel needs allies. XD

Please add the Holy Republic of Nikovalusca to the list. I'm thinking of capping my pop at 7 million, just because this is my first time playing MT and I think a small population will be easier to manage. It'll be a nice little well-off nation with a small but well-equipped and well-trained army and gendarmerie.

I'm also considering joining that Axis you guys are talking about. Nikovans aren't fascists, but about 70% of them are LaVeyan Satanists, as that is the official state religion, and the whole "Woe to the conquered, for he is destined to be a slave forever" thing kinda relates. Besides, a nation the size of Israel needs allies. XD

well, Enkavia isnt fascist either, it's just run by a massive, very evil coporation.

well, Enkavia isnt fascist either, it's just run by a massive, very evil coporation.

And we're just very militaristic and need constant expansion to support our continued growth. That being said, our comparative political moderation doesn't stop us from committing acts of unforseen brutality.

Right then. Here's the stuff you'll want to count me in on. I'll be using Alfegos as it's normal, but with a little revision.

Population: 312 million
Mainland area: about 4.5 million square kilometres
Climate: Tropical
Capital: New Zevkhay
Government: Senatorial Democracy
Major Cities: Milkavich, Polinapolis, Old Zevkhay, Il'vi
Notable entities: AUM (Alfegos Underground Mafia), Alfegos Aeronautics (Aerospace), Etra'vai (Supermarket, a la Tescos)

Armed forces: 1% of population

Ok, fascist was the wrong term to use. But I think my point still carries across. :p

As soon as I'm home and have access to NS, I'll get Nikovalusca's Jolt account straightened out. The office's net restrictions block it for some reason.

Ok, fascist was the wrong term to use. But I think my point still carries across. :p

As soon as I'm home and have access to NS, I'll get Nikovalusca's Jolt account straightened out. The office's net restrictions block it for some reason.

Not necessarily. Piccavia's essentially a fascist regime, except the people actually get to vote still - and they like their leaders to be out of their freaking minds with evil.

Okay all, I'm back and I've updated the OP.

My stats:

Population: cap at 200 million
Mainland area: 2 million square miles
Climate: Temperate (mostly barren wasteland, highly polluted)
Capital: Gewalk City
Government: Coporate Dictatorship (militaristic, ruthless, generally evil)
Major Cities: Enkapolis, Suortaria, Serpent River, Gewalt Manufacturing Complexes 1-7
Notable entities: Alojz Kazimier (Gewalt Industries CEO), Lucious Carson (hea d of GI security forces), more coming soon
Economy: approx. $72,000 GDP per capita

Anyone want to hire me? Anyone at all? Look at the RS corperation list and send me a TG with contract offers. They're very economical, seeing as your nations are now less-capable of building large amounts of things on it's own.

Anyone want to hire me? Anyone at all? Look at the RS corperation list and send me a TG with contract offers. They're very economical, seeing as your nations are now less-capable of building large amounts of things on it's own.

Please stop using this thread to advertise your businesses.

They're specifically for you guys....

Where else am i supposed to advertise?

They're specifically for you guys....

Where else am i supposed to advertise?

I don't see any reason for companies to be specific to RS nations. Find somewhere else to advertise (protip: your own thread) just don't do it here.

Alright, just so ya know, I've capped Seina at 233 million and just pasted over all her nse stats for permanent use (unless, I suppose, my per capita GDP improves, because $19K is not a "thriving" economy in the slightest, but that's really a minor thing).

Do the same logistics:combat personnel ratios for a regular army also apply to a police force? I'd like to include a Gendarmerie in my armed forces, and am unsure of what ratio to use for them. I want to say the ratio should be a lot smaller, since gendarmes are sorta halfway between soldiers and civilian police, but what do you guys think?

Do the same logistics:combat personnel ratios for a regular army also apply to a police force? I'd like to include a Gendarmerie in my armed forces, and am unsure of what ratio to use for them. I want to say the ratio should be a lot smaller, since gendarmes are sorta halfway between soldiers and civilian police, but what do you guys think?

Damned if I know. I would guess that their logistical needs are reduced pretty substantially (fewer, more common vehicles, less fuel, less air support, no artillery, less ammunition, etc.). Wouldn't hurt to see if you could find any info on RL gendarmes or just regular MPs.

The gendarmes are a paramilitary force really - not part of the forces, but not part of the police. With the military police, they come under the army ratios, but Gendarmes would likely as not have a similar logistics:serviceman ratio. Go for 3:1.

Wow, hadn't seen this till now. I honestly have no issue with large massive nations as I like the play-off between massive nations and my resources limited little land. I support those who take this path but I don't know if would really set this as something different from the mainstream. There have been Capped populations going on since 2003 when I first joined, and I expect we will continue to see them till NS up and explodes one day in the future.

Its really just how I prefer to play, and I suggest people play however they feel comfortable. I tried it as Mekugi as a seven billion plus nation and really was starting to get bored with everything. So I restarted as Amastol; to play within some restrictions and I must admit I've had a lot of fun doing so.

(Bump)

I very much like the idea. It does get annoying when a billion or so nation goes "Die, 100 mill troops! MUAHAHAHA!" Type thing. I'm too small for this type of thing *in my opinion* But I really like the idea, and give a big thumbs up to those that are a part of this. And yes, it would be considered a new techspace, because FT nations (or MT nations that try out FT) Have larger populaces, and GDPs than what would be said in NS, which does make sense. It would be quite useful, since I've seen quite a few threads die, because someone brought in a space cruiser and glassed the Earth rofl. I encourage all who are a part of this, and once I get experience, I'll probably join.
Gendarmes are military trained police, to look at it one way. Try a 2:1 ratio, but really only for an uprising, or any sizeable gathering. A 1:1 ratio would be good, when they are not needed, but when they are, (ie, a hostage situation) then it should be 2:1. If they are being used as soldiers, then 3:1. It also depends on: the weapons, how they will be used, where they will be used, what they use, what do they require, etc.

bump. Am I the only one who has done anything with their RS nation so far? (other than the ones who are using nations they RP'ed with before this idea came about)

bump. Am I the only one who has done anything with their RS nation so far? (other than the ones who are using nations they RP'ed with before this idea came about)

I suppose I am one of those nations, who RP'ed normally before RS, but all the same I'd kind of hoped to have seen a few more RS specific RPs about by now.

Well, here's my RS intro RP: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=562432

To be honest I'm concentrating on my factbook, but if anyone wants to set something up (international conference or whatever, may even do so myself), then I'm game.

If the RS nations would like to commence trade talks with any nation in the SFR, they're welcome to do so. Velkya has a colony there, you can talk to him as well.

Indeed, I won't bite.

Heh.

I'm afraid Third Spanish States isn't 100% RS, but I've capped IC population at 300 mi. Would orbital weapons like kinetic tungsten rods and nukes make it improper for the same?

I have some PMT-ish stuff like arcologies as well because of population density issues, but nothing that brings any significant advantage. Can I apply or would I have to cut off all the unique stuff like limited human cloning, maglev rails, Internet TV and cyb3rpunk arcologies that are part of Third Spanish States features thus making it ineligible because I won't cut off that stuff*?

*I RP 2039. On the other hand, I also take into consideration the fact oil peaked 2 years ago in the "Earth" Third Spanish States is located.

Sign me up as Circadia, a newly-resurrected puppet with a fixed population of 85 million.

I have the same worries as the Third Spanish States because I write mostly science fiction in RL so I RP in FT and I am working on my first post in P/MT NS. While the PMT stuff is based on real stuff today it does go a little bit into the future. Orbital weapons, rail guns, active protection system (the stuff that shoots the missile before it hits), advance computers, and other stuff evolving around that type of tech. While in terms of politics, economics, and military might the PMT stuff gives me several advantages everything I have also has disadvantages to make up for their awesomeness like high prices, maintenance, weaker armor protection, human error, and other disadvantages as well.

Will this be okay? Otherwise I'll RP in RS as The Empire of the Five Constellations with a pop. of 200 million and will cap it at around 400-to-600 million as time goes by.

Replying to Five Constellations only, since I'm too stupid to reply to anything else (:p), orbital weapons are now possible, rail guns are still in development, and active protection systems are go. I recall that you can drop crap from satellites into the earth, though it's still undergoing research, rail guns melt after a few shots since they are very primitive right now, and there's the Arena APS which is one of the defensive systems in Russia. I'm a fool, though, so take things I say with a grain of salt.

Zinaire is one of the few nations that has elected to reduce its population dramatically (200 million, down from almost 700 million) in order to play NS in a more realistic and challenging manner. Yeah, because managing the space necessary for billions of people isn't challenging in the slightest. :rolleyes: By the way, this isn't new, sorry.

One of the main concerns nations have with capping their population (i.e., setting their population at a constant level lower than the number that NS gives) is that even if they chose to play realistically, everyone else won't and when there are nations with populations in the multi-billions, the last thing you want to do is reduce your own power, leaving your nation vulnerable. What? Didn't you just say that you wanted to play NS in a more challenging manner? And as for realism, sorry, not all countries can be the same size, that isn't true IRL and it isn't true in NS.

That's why it's high time for a pseudo-techspace (more on this later) just for nations that have chosen to add realism to their nation. Nothing to do with realism. Capping your country at 200 million doesn't mean you are a realistic player, it just means that you have chosen to implement a more realistic population for whatever reason.

Just as it would be poor form for an FT nation to crash a MT roleplay and vaporize everyone with ray guns, it's henceforth poor form for a conventional (non-realistic) MT nation to come in and steamroll a capped population MT nation. Lol what? OH, YOUR COUNTRY IS BIGGER THAN MINE, THAT'S UNFAIR.

Simply putting "RS" for "Realistic Scenario" in the title of a RP will insure safety from unrealistically large nations. Your population is 200 million. Mine is 11 billion. My country is 55 times your size. The PRC, however, is approximately 325 times the size of say, Singapore. What you are actually doing, whether you intend it to or not, is making yourself a superpower in your own realm because you can't hack it in mainstream NS. Not that that bothers me at all, just telling it how it is.

In some ways though, this works like a one-way door. Just as we would allow or even applaud the brave MT nation that would go head to head with a more advanced FT nation, RS nations are more than welcome to interact with the nations of the general MT techspace. Er, ok. You declare war on a 10 billion nation - wow, you're so brave, amazing realistic tech RPer fights somebody many times larger his size. The opposite happens, the roles are not particularly reversed; the 10 billion nation is evil and nasty for attacking someone smaller than him. Christ, get over it. If you are small and inconsequential you are still small and inconsequential if you limit your population, it just means you can't get any more important as time passes. This is not a 'one way door', this is a blatant reputation advantage to 'RS' nations.

Why a Techspace? As I said, superpower in your own devised realm.

It is important to realize than RS is very different from RL tech. RS nations are free to use the plentiful MT designs made just for NationStates in their RPs so RS is not really a techspace. Lol. Sure, take the actual advantages of being large - economies of scale in R&D, and apply them to yourself, but don't accept any of the negatives.

However, techspaces are currently the only systems in place to limit interactions between nations based on how they choose to play the game. No they're not. The IGNORE Cannon is.

But because RS has nothing to do with technology, it is more appropriate to call it a pseudo-techspace. It's more appropriate to call it bullshit.

Economic and Military Consequences None?

The military is pretty straightforward, simply calculate 0.25-3% (none of this 5% business, North Korea and Eritrea (I've never heard of it either) are the only nations even close to a 5% enlistment rate) of your new, capped population. Here (http://www.csgnetwork.com/csgpercent.html) is a percentage calculator for your convenience. Oh right - so by being 'realistic', you can't choose to model your state off RL existing states. For the record, the Soviet Union (not inc. Warsaw Pact) spent up to 18% of its GDP on defence and in 1980 had around 4.5 million men and women under arms.

The amount of logistics:combat personnel can be calculated as follows (all numbers courtesy of Alfegos): Or you could, you know, make it up as necessary for the security needs of your nation rather than follow what the superpower in his own realm says.

Army: 1:1 (for a crap Army with little mechanization) to 5:1 or more for a decent army.

Air Force: 5:1 (for an air force full of kamikazes flying horrible planes) to 50:1 for an "ultra-modern überforce."

Navy: 5:1 (for a sucky navy) to 20:1 for a good one. Source?

Generally, the higher the enlistment percentage, the worse your military will be be (because it's harder to train and equip ten million troops than it is one million). ... no.

Calculating your new economic figures is slightly more complicated, especially if you take into account economic decline caused by a smaller population (as differentiated from economic decline which is directly correlated with a smaller population). What? Aren't you just retconning the fact your population was ever larger? Or are you agreeing that perhaps once you had a larger population and they have all died or something? There is no 'economic decline', your numbers never dropped, they were always at X because they were capped at X.

(defense, law & order, etc.) can be based off a calculator's numbers or your own whims (but, as always, "realism" is the word, so don't go making your budget 100% defense). 19th C. Britain would have disagreed with you. But following historical precedent is not realism, right?

Named after the nation that developed it, the Alfegos System is a less calculator-reliant system for calculating economic details. Since when did Alfegos develop the idea of common sense and a very basic knowledge of mathematics and economics? This has been used as a simple calculation on NS for years. He didn't develop or invent anything.

To calculate GDP, select a reasonable GDP/PC (for reference, RL GDP/PCs range from $55 dollars (let's all laugh at Zimbabwe!) to over a $100,000 in the tiny European paradise of Luxembourg. This doesn't really work. You don't just make it up because it "sounds right" and neither is it possible for your 'standard' NS nation to have a $100,000 GDPPC.

By the way, GDP/PC means Gross Domestic Product (divided by) every one hundred Capita. The / is irrelevant.

1. Obviously the big one, limit your population to a more reasonable number. Anything from a tiny, Moncacoesque nation with 30,000 people (for a challenge even among RS nations) to a larger, China-like nation with a billion people (and all the difficulties involved with such a large population). One billion should be the absolute maximum. The People's Republic of China's population, according to the CIA, is 1 billion 330 million. How egregiously unrealistic!

As an RS nation, you have reason to ignore a regular MT nation that has crashed a RS-specific RP, but once you enter a normal MT RP, you have to be willing to take whatever gets thrown at you. You can do that anyway, but whatever. It's called invite-only or semi-closed.

tl;dr? Zinaire makes himself more powerful by reserving the ability to ignore anyone he considers 'unrealistically large.'

but I reserve the right to punch the first person that says either of the things I predicted the naysayers would (read up). Lucky I didn't say any of those things, then.

I don't have a problem with capping your population. In fact, before this, I would have commended you for it. I have a capped RP nation myself because I don't find mainstream NS all that fun anymore. But developing a whole set of rules and reasons and the 'right to ignore' is a vast excess and damages NS RP. If you totally seperate yourself from the rest of the MT community, like, say, AMW, then that would be a different matter but clearly this is a "We'll engage with you on our terms, otherwise, don't touch us" and such. Why do you need to create a whole group of people who want to seperate themselves from the rest of NS (unless of course, it benefits them) in a centralised and organised manner, as opposed to what used to happen - a polite and formal request from the capped nation to the non-capped nation to restrict excess force, rather than the "in your face" attitude of 'RS.' This has happened before and it has never caused a problem, why you feel the need to elevate yourselves on a pedestal away from other players I don't understand.

As I said, I'm not going to stop you, nor am I going to start breaking into your RPs for the sake of it, but this is my criticism and if you want to ignore it, go straight ahead. I don't care about NS anymore anyway.

signing up a puppet called "Chernobylskaya", with the population cap at 36 Million.

-Snip-

Questers, you bring up a lot of good points and I would like to respond to one of them. One being why I decided to join RS. I agree with you about population size, having a cap for your population does not make it more realistic, but having a organized group of similar sized countries gathering together makes it easier to RP conflict.

Lets say Questers, that for some strange reason we decide to do a RP together. Now according to the game function in Nationstates, I have a pop of about 200 million and you have a crap load more in population. You also have a better economy, work force, military, political power, etc. Me? I got a handful of aircraft carriers to represent my nation's power. Now, realistically speaking can we RP together? No, because a nation like yours' wouldn't give a rat's ass about mine.

If I attack you then there is no reason why you can't just nuke me and be done with it. This makes it vary hard for new players like me and more experience players like you to interact. Which means I got no one to learn from and such I will have a very hard time improving. In RS nations of your size can make yourselves more 'equal' to the newer nations to hand over some experience without looking weak (I don't care what you say if your nation wastes it time with puny nations like mine then the people of Questers need a new government).

Also, this goes to everyone, I am not just going to RP in RS. I'm still going to post mostly in P/MT especially if I don't the experience I expect to get from here. However, if there is something to gain I will post more, but really my loyalty belongs to FT NS.

but having a organized group of similar sized countries gathering together makes it easier to RP conflict. Correct, but the key word here is not 'similar sized', it's 'organized.'

Lets say Questers, that for some strange reason we decide to do a RP together. Now according to the game function in Nationstates, I have a pop of about 200 million and you have a crap load more in population. You also have a better economy, work force, military, political power, etc. Me? I got a handful of aircraft carriers to represent my nation's power. Now, realistically speaking can we RP together? No, because a nation like yours' wouldn't give a rat's ass about mine. I don't think size has anything to do with it. Germany invaded Luxembourg, Russia invaded Afghanistan, hell, the USA invaded Grenada. There are strategic, economic, and political reasons that come before size, but there is obviously truth in what you say.

If I attack you then there is no reason why you can't just nuke me and be done with it. Probably because you would ignore me, but there are plenty of IC reasons;
a. ) Occupation or long-term domination is alot harder when the credibility of your forces are damaged by say, nuclear or chemical attack.
b. ) It would be probably considered uncivilised and brutish by the societies of my allies for a large Anglospheric nation to brutishly nuke a smaller country for imperialistic reasons.
c. ) If I wanted to exploit your economic power, it would be practically impossible for me to hit any civilian targets with nukes.
d. ) MAD: Maybe not total MAD, but in the words of Charles de Gaulle: Within ten years, we shall have the means to kill 80 million Russians. "I truly believe that one does not light-heartedly attack people who are able to kill 80 million Russians, even if one can kill 800 million French, that is if there were 800 million French."

This makes it vary hard for new players like me and more experience players like you to interact. Which means I got no one to learn from and such I will have a very hard time improving. Do you think I was always 11 billion to start with? Like everyone else I started out with 5 million population and there were already nations larger than me and more influential and powerful. I didn't magically appear in a position of military and economic power - I worked my way up to it.

In RS nations of your size can make yourselves more 'equal' to the newer nations to hand over some experience without looking weak Experience is earned, not given.

(I don't care what you say if your nation wastes it time with puny nations like mine then the people of Questers need a new government). Like the British wasted time with the puny Boers? Or the Russians with the puny Afghanis? Or the British taking back Argentina? Or the Israelis with puny Jordan in 1967? China and Tibet? America and Grenada? Just a handful of examples.

One of the main concerns nations have with capping their population (i.e., setting their population at a constant level lower than the number that NS gives) is that even if they chose to play realistically, everyone else won't and when there are nations with populations in the multi-billions, the last thing you want to do is reduce your own power, leaving your nation vulnerable.

oh lol "WE MUST NOT ALLOW A POPULATION GAP"

I regularly RP with NSes 5 times bigger than mine, using the logistical issue I'll comment later in this post as the primary balancing feature. And to be honest and all, actually while Third Spanish States has "only" 300 million(which is a massive population density for a country about 50 times smaller than US), the entirety of my puppets tenuously allied to Third Spanish States have the NS page population of Third Spanish States, although I RP them as completely independent, and they are usually too isolationist to do anything unless directly threatened, and some of them have developing economies. I just don't like massive army deployments because they tend to make the battles much less detailed unless if done by someone who wants more than just "win", as you aren't obliged to detail characters and experiences from the battlefield if you just want to "win", and it usually leads to poor, bland posts of RAWR I AM STRONGER.

The way I expanded their ideology(rather than direct rule) territorially has been less than satisfactory so far, basically by joining "Land grab" threads, most which unfortunately died of inactivity.

Also, when Britain fought in the Falklands, they could not deploy their entire navy there and had to cope with some logistical challenges. The farther the enemy is, the more unrealistic massed interventions become. Unfortunately, much of NS ignores entirely this fact, and some even have insta-fleets that can be anywhere instantly. Of course, for those the solution is not exactly this, but selectiveness, something called RETCON and another thing called IGNORE CANNON.

*Edit: Also, I could have been here three years before if I was aware of this site three years ago. Time itself means nothing, for some really poor RPers who never improved were here first than me.

*Edit 2: And for really pure realism, is to make an Earth with no population caps, but with resources caps and maximum agricultural capacity(there is a limit to how many people RL-sized Earth could realistically support the survival of).