NationStates Jolt Archive

From: Aaron Jimsis, First Class Tactical Scientist of the Meritocracy
To: All nations with arms sales and storefronts
Re: Modernizing our military

Bringing our armed forces up to par with the rest of our technological development has not been a priority until now. However, the unique geographic features of our nation makes requires us to consider carefully our assets and tactics; especially involving aircraft.

As such, anyone selling military equipment or possessing storefronts, please let us know. We are especially interested in all surface ships, submarines and aircraft. We are especially interested in surface ships of economical and stealthy design. Large ships with deep drafts are problematic. Aircraft capable of S/VTOL and sustained low altitude flight a plus. We are considering a modification of Ballistic Misile SUbmarines to serve as guided missile and UAV platforms.

Thank you for your time.

OCC: As it's seems you haven't gotten any replies yet, here's one to get this thread started.

IC: As one among a select few of the largest weapons manufactures in the [NS]world, our company offers a vast selection of equipment to suit the needs of almost any nation. So whether it's just browsing our extensive catalogue of products for a possible purchase or conducting research for the future needs of your armed forces, our company offers many unique services. A catalogue of our products can be found at the following site (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=471334).

Thank you for your time and interest in our company, UEMS.

Sincerely, Nicholas Stevens

the Armed Republic of Cascade States is a purveyor of the finest Real life
tech weapons systems in the world.
For those who can afford them,

or for those on a budget more constrained,
we offer a number of more economical goods and services.

We offer as a sample;

F-35 jets ( carrier models ) $38 Million USD
F-35 Jets ( Air Force ) $35 Million USD

F-22 Raptors $160 Million USD

B-52H Bombers $55 Million USD
B-1 Lancers( super sonic) $700 Million USD
B-2 Spirit ( small orders $1 Billion USD
B-2 Spirit( Over 300 ordered) $ 500 Million USD

E2-C Hawk Eye AEW $64 Million USD
C-130 Phaelcon AEW $400 Million USD

C-130 Cargo planes $48 Million USD
Il-76 Cargo planes $ 30 Million USD

V-22 Osprey SOF $ 80 Million USD

KC-135 mid Air Refuelling $43 Million USD


Apache AH-64 $20 Million USD
MI-24 " Hind" $ 3 Million USD

CH-27 Chinook $ 20 Million USD

MH-53 Pave Low 3 $ 40 Million USD
UH-1H Huey $ 250,000 USD
UH-60 Black Hawk $12 Million USD

We offer tanks as well,
and Artillery in missile or cannon form.

either for combat or testing against.

UAV's

Navy Battle groups

Landing vessels for amphibious assaults

Nuclear and Diesel electric subs,

Satellite systems

Missiles to attack ships, planes, hardened bunkers. Even Submarines!
Everything from man portable missiles upto train transported ICBM's.

We offer comprehensive small arms deals, weapons, ammo, mags,
body armor and all the personal touches to make a mob into a feared
fighting force. As well as training equipment and "instructors" for more
complicated items which might require more time and resources to field.

Please telegram the Armed Republic of Cascade States for anything
you might need.
Oh, one note;
For security reasons we cannot sell Nuclear, chemical or Biological weapons.

thankyou for your time!

TO: Aaron Jimsis, First Class Tactical Scientist of the Meritocracy
FROM: Surge Strong, Leader of the ABP

Technicals may not be modern, but they sure as hell are cheap, reliable, and fast. our own range are all 4x4s, fully armoured upto a 7.62x39mm round, easily repairable, and come with four options, AA, Anti-Infantry, Anti-Armour, and transport.
Please find enclosed a leaflet.

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3290/apbxb9.jpg
ARMED PROTECTORS OF BURTILANA

New from the APB:
Technicals - A warlord's power is measured by how many of these vehicles he has, how powerful are you?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6e/Technical_Liberia.jpg
Grab yourself an armour-plated pick up truck with a machine gun, AA gun or recoiless gun, and enjoy your drive to work!
http://www.fromthefrontline.co.uk/blogs/media/blogs/alex/technical.jpg
Visit www.apb-store.com (http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=560781) to purchase.
Prices start from as little as $15,000, we are not responsible for your actions!

OOC: Just FYI you don't have to pay anyone to use RL designs, they're fair game make yourself.

OOC: I am working on my own designs, basically though they are civilian pick ups, bought up to military standard.

OOC: Just FYI you don't have to pay anyone to use RL designs, they're fair game make yourself.

Yeah, that true, but it also doesn't mean you can write yourself a "blank check" for them.

In such a case, you'd be building them yourself or getting inventive with some parent-nation handing to you as "outdated surplus".

So, um... nukes, not fair game unless you like getting glassed for being S-noobish.

Draftroom has "international mall" section, and even though there are some factions on NS that don't like their hypocracy, it's still a pretty orderly place to look-up stuff for newbies.

Yeah, that true, but it also doesn't mean you can write yourself a "blank check" for them.

In such a case, you'd be building them yourself or getting inventive with some parent-nation handing to you as "outdated surplus".

So, um... nukes, not fair game unless you like getting glassed for being S-noobish.

Draftroom has "international mall" section, and even though there are some factions on NS that don't like their hypocracy, it's still a pretty orderly place to look-up stuff for newbies.

OOC: Of course a 10 mil pop nation can't have 5,000 M1A2s and 20 Nimitz class carriers, but you don't have to buy those things from a storefront. I use a lot of RL tech, albeit upgraded.

Gordonopian Arms Supplies a wide variety of armaments for countries both large and small. Our current selections include:

Small Arms
HCC (High Caliber Combat) Sub-Machine Gun 1500 USD
HCD (High Caliber Defense) Assault Rifle 2000 USD
LR (Long Range) Sniper Rifle 5000 USD
SR45 (Short Range .45) Handgun 200 USD

Vehicles
A-6B Main Battle Tank 200 Million USD
Combat Humvee 1000000 USD
Unarmed Transport Humvee 500000 USD

Aircraft
ASLS (Air Sea Land Superiority) Cessna Citation Columbus 5 Million USD
CF-1 (Combat Fighter) 10 Million USD
TB-1 (Tactical Bomber) 25 Million USD

Ships
Hyperion Class Destroyer 500 Million
Lincoln Class Cruiser 2 Billion USD
Perkins Class Aircraft Carrier 3 Billion USD (alone) 3.5 Billion (With Aircraft)
Boston Class Battleship 3 Billion USD

Gordonopian Arms Supplies a wide variety of armaments for countries both large and small. Our current selections include:

Small Arms
HCC (High Caliber Combat) Sub-Machine Gun 1500 USD
HCD (High Caliber Defense) Assault Rifle 2000 USD
LR (Long Range) Sniper Rifle 5000 USD
SR45 (Short Range .45) Handgun 200 USD

Vehicles
A-6B Main Battle Tank 200 Million USD
Combat Humvee 1000000 USD
Unarmed Transport Humvee 500000 USD

Aircraft
ASLS (Air Sea Land Superiority) Cessna Citation Columbus 5 Million USD
CF-1 (Combat Fighter) 10 Million USD
TB-1 (Tactical Bomber) 25 Million USD

Ships
Hyperion Class Destroyer 500 Million
Lincoln Class Cruiser 2 Billion USD
Perkins Class Aircraft Carrier 3 Billion USD (alone) 3.5 Billion (With Aircraft)
Boston Class Battleship 3 Billion USD


Where did you get these toys?
While I know some people love to "invent cool stuff"
I get the feeling that these are the dreams of minds with no background
in Engineering / economics or Military history.
( No I take that back there have been worse things but they were jokes )
Where did you get your prices?

Battle ships? Really?

What kind of quality can you boast about a 10 million dollar fighter?
you know who makes a fighter for that price?
The Russian's circa 1950's.

Come on,
While you probably enjoyed creating silly things with little or no basis
in real life. And will use them in this game,
I'm offering quantifiable products.

To: Aaron Jimsis, First Class Tactical Scientist of the Meritocracy
From: Jennifer Alexander, Crookfur Arms.
Subject: re. your request for proposals

Dear Sir,

It is with pleasure that I introduce both myself and my Company, Crookfur Arms, one of the worlds oldest and most respected providers of Defence Material.

Our current catalogue is availble here (http://z8.invisionfree.com/Crookfur_Arms/) and I would be msot obliged if you could take the time to have a look through it.

At Crookfur Arms we are also perfectly willing to under take custom design, upgrade and modification work and we will always do our utmost to tailor a solution to perfectly fit your requirements.

I look forward to hearing from you

Kind regards
Jennifer Alexander
Head of Sales
Crookfur Arms.

OOC:
Cascade States: perhaps you might want to revaluate soem of the entries in your post, least a phrase involved, pot, kettle and black form in people's minds

Where did you get these toys?
Come on,
While you probably enjoyed creating silly things with little or no basis
in real life. And will use them in this game,
I'm offering quantifiable products.

OOC: Instead of making a post that is borderline trolling, why don't you help him out? What he's offering is nothing in comparison of what other people have put on NS in the past. Lay off ffs.

------------

IC:

The Army of Dashie is willing to offer your army two premium assault weapons. We are an army of quality over quantity who manufacture only the sturdiest weaponry for any theater.

We are willing to offer:

The BGRA1 Assault Rifle (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13719904&postcount=2)

The Type08B MOD-12 Assault Weapon (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13725778&postcount=7)

If interested, we will begin to negotiate a price.

OOC: Instead of making a post that is borderline trolling, why don't you help him out? What he's offering is nothing in comparison of what other people have put on NS in the past. Lay off ffs.

------------

IC:

The Army of Dashie is willing to offer your army two premium assault weapons. We are an army of quality over quantity who manufacture only the sturdiest weaponry for any theater.

We are willing to offer:

The BGRA1 Assault Rifle (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13719904&postcount=2)

The Type08B MOD-12 Assault Weapon (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13725778&postcount=7)

If interested, we will begin to negotiate a price.

I'm not "down" with internet speak, so you'll have to pretend like I'm a normal
literate person.

I realize that people are free to build what ever crazy things they want.
I'm merely asking how people justify the creations and costs.

I am not trying to highjack this thread.

If the young master wishes to have some assistance on the subject of
II Arms deals I'd be more than willing to assist. It seems to be my calling
on II.

And I like technicals, they rock.

OOC:
Cascade States: perhaps you might want to revaluate soem of the entries in your post, least a phrase involved, pot, kettle and black form in people's minds[/QUOTE]

Oh what did you have in mind?
I can back up most if not All of my nation's weapon's costs.
As I keep up with the news of Real life arms deals I have some idea as to
what things cost.

To: Aaron Jimsis
From: The People's Republic of Falkasia
Although not specifically asked for in your request, the Peoples Republic of Falkasia would like to offer up two of our premier designs, the BI-3 Missile Defence Satellite (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=560262), and our T-12 Light Tank, of which details will be provided below.

Please, inform us if you are interested.

T-11 Light Tank:
Manufacturer: Falkasian Armored Designs
*Crew: 3 (Driver, Loader/Gunner, Commander)
Weight (pounds): 29 tons
Length: 25'4"
Width: 12'6"
Height: 12'6"
Armor Thickness: 1/2 inch of Steel Plate, 1/4 inch of Depleted Uranium Tiles, 1/4 Reactive Armor Tiles. 1/4 inch Reinforced Titanium Alloy Plate inside Crew Compartment
Forward Speed (Paved): 65 mph
Forward Speed (Cross-Country): 45 mph
Reverse Speed (Paved and Cross-Country): 30 mph
Engine: AGT-1500 turbine engine
Allision TG-250-2A powershift cross drive transmission with 4 forward /2 reverse
Fuel Tank: 317 Gallons
Fuel Consumption: 2.3 MPG
Vertical obstacle climb: 51 in
Maximum width ditch: 110 in
Fording Depth: 48 in
Main Gun: 152mm cannon; 20 Sabot rounds and 15 AP Piercing Rounds
Missile Launcher; 5 TOW Missiles
Coaxial machinegun: M240 - 7.62mm
Commander's machinegun: M2 - .50 cal
Sensors and Fire Control: M140 Gunner's Ranging and Firing Computer, IR SACLOS data link, Radio/GPS Command Link, MK3 IPD (Incoming Projectile Deflection) Computer
Price: 3,000,000 USD

Now that's a tank!
It looks legitimate in all respects, Maybe I'll make Greg run the numbers on the
weight and such.
( I'm a machining student, one of my friends is an M-60 / Abrams driver from the gulf war)

Now that's a tank!
It looks legitimate in all respects, Maybe I'll make Greg run the numbers on the
weight and such.
( I'm a machining student, one of my friends is an M-60 / Abrams driver from the gulf war)

Very cool, and thanks for the compliment. I really appreciate it.

OOC:
Cascade States: perhaps you might want to revaluate soem of the entries in your post, least a phrase involved, pot, kettle and black form in people's minds

Oh what did you have in mind?
I can back up most if not All of my nation's weapon's costs.
As I keep up with the news of Real life arms deals I have some idea as to
what things cost.[/QUOTE]

Mainly your Huey and hind costs.

$250,000 is a the price of a robinson R22, unit repalcmeent cost for the -H has been quoted at about $4-5million.

The cost of the Hind would of course depend on the model, a rough guess of a modern -V, -P or an Mi35 would be in the $15-20 million region, based on recent suadi purhcases

Most of the things I've read in the past say Huey's retail for about a
quarter of a million USD ( That was 2000-2003 USD ).
And Hind troop transport / gunships were only about three million each.
But could always make them more expensive.
Did the Saudi family buy better ECM suits?
What kind of weapon's packages did they come with?
Were they brand new custom projects for the the House of Saud or off
the shelf from existing stocks?

OOC: You never know what the Saudis buy, all you know is they can afford it. lol

When they can simply write a blank check for what ever they want,

I'm surprised that they haven't had an army group gold leafed!

Think about it,
Gold tanks, Helicopters, Humvees. soldiers...
It would be so bright it would blind the enemy!
Think of the envy.

Lol. Crime would go through the roof though. Think of all the golden tanks being stolen.

*Pictures a golden tank driving down a road in a poor suburb.*

Hey, it would make tracking their weapins that much easier. Just look for giant, gleaming blobs on photos, lol!


To be honest, I'm surprised they haven't bought out the world yet!

just to keep this up

Most of the things I've read in the past say Huey's retail for about a
quarter of a million USD ( That was 2000-2003 USD ).
And Hind troop transport / gunships were only about three million each.
But could always make them more expensive.
Did the Saudi family buy better ECM suits?
What kind of weapon's packages did they come with?
Were they brand new custom projects for the the House of Saud or off
the shelf from existing stocks?

As I said $0.25 mil is what you need to pay for a twin seat psiton engined helicopter.

I have seen that price quoted for the various avionics and rotor upgrades and modifications carried out on the exiting UH-H fleet to bring them up to Huey II standard but most second (third) hand ones I have seen on the market are in the $2million region. $250,000 sounds suspiseicously like an over haul price on an otherwise free military donation.

Export Mi-24s (known as Mi-35s) regularly go for about $15-20million for an Mi-35M model(Mi-24VM/PM equivelent) and have done to Venezuela, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia all of which where pretty similar new biulds.
Anyone getting them cheaper would be getting refurbish Hind-Ds of debatable usefulness and liekly getting them as part of a Russian debt repayment scheme.

What kind of quality can you boast about a 10 million dollar fighter?
you know who makes a fighter for that price?
The Russian's circa 1950's.
F-4 Phantom. It certainly is not an F-15 or an F-22 or a Su-37, but it is certainly better than a MiG-15 or -17 like you suggest.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8196/overwatch2gl1.png

Overwatch Incorporated.
Military goods and services since 1979.

Transaction Offer
Aaron Jimsis, First Class Tactical Scientist of the Meritocracy

Overwatch Inc. is proud to offer the K28 Automatic Rifle (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=562643), and is confident that the quality of this weapon will meet or exceed that of any other on the market. The K28 is an air-cooled, gas operated, selective fire rifle capable of being used for a range of purposes. The closed-open bolt hybrid nature of the weapon allows it to function as both a Light- or General-Purpose Machine Gun, and also as a precision Designated Marksman's or 'Parasniper' Rifle.

The K28 has markedly soft recoil, but still delivers extreme stopping power due to the power of the 7x50mm CTA round. It is extremely reliable, with accuracy comparable to most semi-automatic sniper rifles. A wide range of attachments offered my Overwatch Inc. means that the weapon can be quickly customised for use in any situation, and it's modular design means that it can be constantly updated.

This weapon has already passed a plethora of preliminary tests and has been accepted into service for all branches of the Agrandan military. Other nations of Gholgoth have expressed intense interest in acquiring the weapon, as well as numerous other states. The K28 is clearly a world-class product, with only a handful of comparable competitors.

Overwatch Incorporated Sales Department.

F-4 Phantom. It certainly is not an F-15 or an F-22 or a Su-37, but it is certainly better than a MiG-15 or -17 like you suggest.

Only if I'm selling them because I can no longer afford to keep them flying...
Or if it's the F-4C or "dumbed-down" F-4F/RF-4E... *shudder*

More likely he'd be getting an A-4 Skyhawk for that price instead.
Argentina seems to be making some decent use of them currently, BTW.
Although I wouldn't settle for anything less than an A-4SU.

OOC: New advert for my Technicals, again, they aren't modern, but they are cheap!

Are you fed up with rush hour traffic? Do you wish for a stress free journey? We have the solution!
New from the APB:
Grab yourself an armour-plated pick up truck with a big gun, and enjoy your drive to work!
http://www.freewebs.com/socialiststatesburtilana/AAMT1.jpg
Technicals - A warlord's power is measured by how many of these vehicles he has, how powerful are you?
http://www.freewebs.com/socialiststatesburtilana/technical2%20copy.jpg
Visit www.apb-store.com (http://www.forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=560781) to purchase.
Prices start from as little as $15,000, we are not responsible for your actions!
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/3290/apbxb9.jpg
ARMED PROTECTORS OF BURTILANA

OOC: You really like to sell ick-up trucks, don't you Burtilana?

OOC: hehe they are the APB's biggest export (my aunt asked for the pink one!)
interested in one for your daily commute? lol

OOC: lol, I think I'll pass. I already have a gold-plated Armored Car for that.

We have what you need.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/grunt74/NS1/PhoenixDynamixBlackRedLogo.gif (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=334378)

I fou have what he needs, whay don't you post a link?

he can click the picture or the link in my signature

Our signatures don't come up unless you're logged out, ironically. Makes no sense.

that's a setting on your account you can change.
i view all signatures whether or not i am logged in.

To: Aaron Jimsis
From: The People's Republic of Falkasia
Although not specifically asked for in your request, the Peoples Republic of Falkasia would like to offer up two of our premier designs, the BI-3 Missile Defence Satellite (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=560262), and our T-12 Light Tank, of which details will be provided below.

Please, inform us if you are interested.

T-11 Light Tank:
Manufacturer: Falkasian Armored Designs
*Crew: 3 (Driver, Loader/Gunner, Commander)
Weight (pounds): 29 tons
Length: 25'4"
Width: 12'6"
Height: 12'6"
Armor Thickness: 1/2 inch of Steel Plate, 1/4 inch of Depleted Uranium Tiles, 1/4 Reactive Armor Tiles. 1/4 inch Reinforced Titanium Alloy Plate inside Crew Compartment
Forward Speed (Paved): 65 mph
Forward Speed (Cross-Country): 45 mph
Reverse Speed (Paved and Cross-Country): 30 mph
Engine: AGT-1500 turbine engine
Allision TG-250-2A powershift cross drive transmission with 4 forward /2 reverse
Fuel Tank: 317 Gallons
Fuel Consumption: 2.3 MPG
Vertical obstacle climb: 51 in
Maximum width ditch: 110 in
Fording Depth: 48 in
Main Gun: 152mm cannon; 20 Sabot rounds and 15 AP Piercing Rounds
Missile Launcher; 5 TOW Missiles
Coaxial machinegun: M240 - 7.62mm
Commander's machinegun: M2 - .50 cal
Sensors and Fire Control: M140 Gunner's Ranging and Firing Computer, IR SACLOS data link, Radio/GPS Command Link, MK3 IPD (Incoming Projectile Deflection) Computer
Price: 3,000,000 USD

This does appear to be much improved but I have some questions,

1 why is it a lite tank if it weighs 72 tons? ( that's 10 tons more than the Abrams )

2 How did you come up with the figure for the wieght? I'm guessing out figured out how many square feet of 1/2inch thick steel plate the tank
is made out of and multiplied the total dimensions. Then you must have added
the weight of all the other equipment / fuel and weapons ?

3. How have you gotten around the issue of Ground pressure
The heavier a tank is there is a corresponding need to increase it's tread width and length to keep it's overall ground pressure low.
( If the ground pressure becomes too high it will just sink into the ground )

It also is more wear on the treads when you make a tank heavier and increases maintainance requirements. I'd recomend you look at some of the
First World War designs for artillery and the prototypes the Germans had
for Massive tanks to use in World War Two. ( The Great Patriotic war )

It will greatly increase your logistical burden.
Also you'll need new and more special vehicles to carry your tanks, the weight
of these would prohibit their use in most cities.
( it would crush pipes, sewers and anything else burried under streets.)
You'd have to deploy them by rail, which may become a liablity if your
rail roads are struck by your opponent.
And let's not forget that any tank built can still be killed by One Man portable AT missile. Counter measures are good but not fool proof, eventually
they'll get through even the best defense.
Not to mention the Five Hundred pound bomb solution.

No it could be a very usefull tank, under the right circumstances. But It has
alot of issues which until they are worked out I'd hold off on entering it into
a Tank contest.

OH MAN! We should totally have a beauty pagant for tanks on II!
It would be the best rendition of ( you nation here ) 's tanks! All the photo
Shop / Microsoft Painter's would go crazy!
Sorry I digress.

But keep working on it, if you can work out a couple of kinks in the designs
I will probably buy some for technical evaluations.

Oh and fair warning there is another country who's nearly carbon copied your
tank.
You should look up the Canedian Army, I think that's how it's spelled.

that's how it's spelled. It's the NEW AA51-tank or something.

IC:We at Universal Defense industries, are interested in your dilemna. We have many modernized weapons, that our experts have created. We hope that they shall be up to your standards. The website for the store is attached here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=562737), and we may give you a discount.