NationStates Jolt Archive

a beginning goes here, I'm not very good at them.

ok, this is the hub thread for an RP starting at roughly 30 years war era technology. it's an 'earth', but it's definitely not ON earth. we have maps to prove it

it's kinda nasty because it is made in paint using a screen shot of a random editor thingy...
map of who owns what (http://www.imagebam.com/image/2eb70e7731943)
world, with some landmasses labled (http://www.imagebam.com/image/76a5f27732002)
terrain for the relevant area (http://www.imagebam.com/image/223cb87732004)

recruitment thread [purely so we don't lose track of it] http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=559277

currently involved nations are:

Terror Incognitia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=558511)
Frozopia (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13753000#post13753000)
Angermanland (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13753667#post13753667)
Mass Prediction
the above threads contain the nation's fact book in the first post. subsequent events taking place within that nation will be posted in that thread also. wars, or anything else of sufficient significance to warrant it's own thread will be linked below.



to sign up, any interested parties are going to have to do a number of things: first off, there are eight different scales, and we need to know where your nation falls on each one. then you need to chose three 'national ideas' from the list in the next post. from that information, I'll generate a list of advantages and disadvantages for your nation. ... should be noted that both concepts are ripped almost directly out of Europa Universalis 3 and adapted to work in a free form RP.

this allows people to have a nation as they want, but still have reasonable Problems to deal with. there an't no such thing as Utopia, after all. it also makes shaping fact books somewhat easier, and should help cut down the instances of 'you can't do that!' 'yes i can!'

the scales are as follows:

aristocracy-plutocracy
centralisation-decentralisation
innovative-narrow minded
land-naval
mercantilism-free trade
offensive-defensive
quality - quantity
serfdom - free subjects

in each case, the scale goes from 1 to 11. 1 means hard over towards the concept before the hyphen, 11 hard over to the one after it. a 6 is perfectly neutral. anyone choosing an excessive number of 6s will be prodded to death with a pointy stick.

to help you chose, i present the following summery of the different terms. note that each of these has Many different side effects, not all of which are immediately obvious. also, these descriptions are of the more extream examples. remember that each pair is linked:
arsitocracy: power is in the hands of a hereditory nobility
plutocracy: power is in the hands of the rich.
centralisation: all decision are made at the capital.
decentralization: the subunits of the nation make most of their own decisions without reference to the capital.
land: focuses on land warfare at the expense of naval warfare.
naval: focuses on naval warfare at the expense of land warfare
mercantilism: the government controls imports and exports, moving goods in accordance with the national interest
free trade: the merchants import and export whatever is most likely to profit them, to their minds.
offensive: be it on land or sea, the nation's method of fighting war is aggressive, taking the battle to the enemy.
defensive: be it on land or sea, the nation's method of fighting war is defensive, preferring to allow the enemy to shatter themselves against fixed positions and defensive formations.
quality: chiefly in the military, the emphasis on small, elite units over large armies of barely trained conscripts as the key to victory.
quantity: cheifly in the military, the emphasis on numbers rather than training being the key to victory
serfdom: the workers and farmers and the like are functionaly slaves, with barely any legal protection at all.
free subjects: the citizens are protected by law, can move at will, and are free to find whatever employment they might like, provided it exists.

it is hoped that this will cause plenty of Internal interestingness as well as international conflict.

locations on the map will be decided based on what you chose for your slider settings and where we need people. currently we're populating this world's version of Europe.

once this is done, you create a fact book [in the first post of a separate thread. that thread will then be used for all events taking place in your territory save major wars and the like] within the limits described by the resulting file and the geography of the location your nation is placed in.

this post will be updated significantly as details are filled in and various links become available. also when i haven't been up all night. consider it something of a place holder for now.

the national ideas list, and what each one does. they're devided into groups. yes, they've been ripped straight out of EU3, though i did write up the descriptions. hope the formating doesn't go too strange.

Naval:
Grand navy can support larger fleets
Sea hawks better quality officers
Superior seamanship ships crews are better at sailing [navigation, manoeuvre, etc]
Naval fighting instruction ships crews are better at fighting [blockades, line of battle, etc]
Excellent shipwrights ships are faster and/or can take more damage and continue functioning
Naval glory victory at sea is worth more prestige for both those involved and the winning nation

Land:
National conscripts can recruit larger armies faster. Unless/until mitigated, they’ll probably be slightly worse quality.
Grand army can support larger armies [in terms of financial and internal opinion issues.]
Military drill soldiers fight more effectively
Engineer corps trained engineers can build/man siege weapons, destroy fortifications, cross bridges, build forts, and any number of other useful things better than others. Additionally, officers [or at least those who have come through the corps themselves] are more skilled at making use of this fact.
Battlefield commissions over all officer quality is superior
Glorious arms great feats in battle are worth more prestige for the individual, and grand victories worth more for the nation.

Exploration:
Merchant adventures: your merchants are more inclined to go new places for new opportunities, and you’ll probably have more of them.
Quest for the new world: new lands to explore, colonise, subjugate, and exploit [or perhaps just spread your religion to in a perfectly peaceful manner] are important to your nation’s people. As such, there’s no shortage of volunteers as conquistadors, explorers and the like. [depending on what is emphasised in your expansion]
Colonial adventures your citizens are more than willing to ship out to new lands and wild frontiers to seek their fortunes. There may even be more would be colonists than you have ships to send them on.
Shrewd commerce practices your merchants are wily, understanding many of the driving economic forces behind what they do more intimately than most. They also know the advantage of not taking so much that there’s nothing to come back for the next time, among other things. They’re more likely, at least in the long run, to win any commercial ‘war’ than their competitors too, at least so long as it stays firmly in the realm of the economic.
Viceroys these are appointees who speak with the voice of the ruler [or ruling government] in distant colonies. When it’s just not practical to send back home to the capital for a decision, or when the ruler can’t practically go in person to ensure things are run well, these are the people who take up the slack. With this idea, a formal system allows you to chose them well, and gives them the authority to be effective. … that doesn’t mean there won’t occasionally be some bad apples though. Without it, your ruler will be reduced to sending his closest confidants or risking rebellion, or simply leaving the gap in the system there and losing large amounts of potential income, as well as ability to control the area.
Smithian economics various economic theories and thought on the nature of industry, labour, and the like mean that your nation’s economy is more efficiently organised, be it by accident or design. Goods can be manufactured quicker, cheaper, and with less corruption, while money can be easily directed where it is needed. At least, compared to your neighbours…

State Business:
Bureaucracy the bureaucracy is so well established and run that overhead and corruption are cut to a minimum. Tax income is thus more efficient, and orders given more effectively distributed and carried out. It does however have the danger that, left unchecked, over time bureaucrats will generally prefer Order and the Status Quo over any particular loyalty or reform.
National bank. by settings strict limits on the behaviour of financial institutions, and having a central reserve bank which sets the base rates upon which their choices must rest, inflation and corruption can be, if not eliminated, at least greatly reduced and tightly controlled in the financial sector of your nation.
National trade policy by making use of specific incentives and penalties, or simply issuing orders, one can control what is traded in and out of the nation as a whole, or at least how much of it. however, to be effective, this requires a unified national trade policy, such as, for example, Not trading with nations with whom you are at war. Without this, the merchants will do pretty much what they want regardless, happily trading anything which turns a profit with enemies, allies, or neutrals, wether you can afford to give it up or not, need it or not, basically as it takes their fancy. This allows you to take steps to curb such behaviour.
Espionage your spies aren’t simply people who happen to have a bit of an idea how to play the game. At the very least, the ‘local’ spy masters are trained professionals. This gives your intelligence networks, such as they may be, a significant boost, making the insertion of spies, as well as their information gathering and delivery, significantly better.
Cabinet. by appointing ministers to oversee specific areas [as well as represent those areas to any elected bodies or the public at large] you reduce the load on the ruler somewhat. This concept also includes the formalisation of the rulers inner circle of advisers and confidants, effectively providing more people who can fill diplomatic roles, at least on specific issues.
Bill of rights. at some point, official law has been passed guaranteeing the population, or at least certain portions of it, inalienable rights [there may well be associated responsibilities they must uphold to qualify for them, but they’re there.] on balance, while this limits what actions you can take within your nation somewhat, it also significantly reduces the risk that the people will take up arms against you in… protest. At least so long as an alternative method of expressing their views is provided in the bill. Wether the ‘people’ are the nobility, or the peasants, really depends on how the bill is written.
Cultural:
Church attendance duty or some equivalent. By making attendance compulsory, edicts and decrees can be issued through this medium, making their distribution more effective and less chaotic, over all raising stability and national responsiveness to actions taken by the government. It will possibly also net some profit from fines on defaulters for failing to attend, though this will cause unrest amongst those persons.
Divine supremacy your people, or at least the major religion in your nation, believe their faith to be the one true faith, and that it should be spread far and wide. Between that and the well established church training priests for the task, missionaries are easy to come by and ready to go and serve.
humanistic tolerance the prevailing view in your nation is that people are people no matter race, faith, or ideology, and as such discrimination is, on the whole, less than it is in other nations in the area. Official sanctions against non-conformists are light, and unofficial ones severely limited. As a result, unrest is greatly reduced. Surrounding nations which don’t share this trait may find themselves in trouble if their border territories include many people who find their lot to be less than ideal under their current rulers.
Scientific Revolution scientific discoveries are being made quite often, the universities are doing well, and better tools and methods for Research are coming to light all the time. As a result, technology in your nation is developing Rapidly. That said, it is consuming resources which might be better spent elsewhere… including skilled minds who might be better placed commanding armies, ministries, or industries.
Patron of the Arts be it the theatre or those who paint with brushes, dance or sculpture, music or, well, anything else, really, either your ruler, your government, or large numbers of well off individuals are financing artists and thus driving artistic endeavours to new heights. The result is greater prestige and, if they’re sharing with the population, greater contentment. That said, if its’ taking away from other important areas, and/or the public don’t get to see the benefit, it may well cause unrest due to wastefulness.
Deus Vult! Your religious and military institutions seem to have found some common ground here. Go forth into the world, conquer places, and force their populations to convert to your religion or be put to the sword [or musket, as the case may be]. On the upside, it’s not going to cause any internal unrest to declare war on pretty much anyone who’s not of your own religion. On the down side, everyone who follows any other religion is probably going to hate you. Those you actually invade may hold a grudge over it pretty much forever, depending on their general attitude as a people.

file generated for angermanland from above limitations:

The power is mostly in the hands of the aristocrats, government is significantly decentralised, and new ideas are ceased upon and employed with alarming ease. Angermanland puts such great emphasis on it’s navy that it’s army consists mostly of marines and the nobility’s personal guardsmen. The government controls most trade in and out of the country, but otherwise the people are left to live their own lives without interference from above. Significantly more emphasis is placed on quality than quantity in both the navy and what army is to be found, but not so much that the advantage of numbers is discounted. Great emphasis is placed on defending the homeland at sea before any enemy even reaches the shores of the country, and on protecting key points with heavily fortified positions and many, many cannon. Pirates are not so much hunted as smashed if they dare to attempt to prey upon the well protected merchant convoys.

Scientific Revolution scientific discoveries are being made quite often, the universities are doing well, and better tools and methods for Research are coming to light all the time. As a result, technology in your nation is developing Rapidly. That said, it is consuming resources which might be better spent elsewhere… including skilled minds who might be better placed commanding armies, ministries, or industries.

Engineer corps trained engineers can build/man siege weapons, destroy fortifications, cross bridges, build forts, and any number of other useful things better than others. Additionally, officers [or at least those who have come through the corps themselves] are more skilled at making use of this fact.

Naval fighting instruction ships crews are better at fighting [blockades, line of battle, etc]

With horses not exactly hard to come by, and a tradition of aristocratic knights being the kings of the battlefield, it is not hard to find volunteers willing to pay a significant portion of their own equipment costs, and many of the nobility already have many of the requisite skills for the job. In fact, due to numerous factors, recruiting and training cavalry in Angermanland is often cheaper and easier than recruiting infantry, though still more difficult and expensive than in, say, Frozopia.

Due to the personal freedoms and wide variety of professions available to the common folk of Angermanland, as well as a general emphasis on the pursuit of knowledge, there are few volunteers fro the infantry. few of them have the wealth or prior training to shoulder any of the burden of making them ready for war. As a result, infantry are expensive and time consuming to train and equip. on the other hand, their equipment and training Is somewhat more standardised as a result, for good or for ill.

The engineer corps, high demand for naval guns and gunners, and emphasis on solid defensive fortifications make for a high demand for cannons. As a result, the infrastructure to manufacture them quickly and cheaply is well and truly in place. Additionally, due to the opportunities for scientific discovery such a profession provides, the makers of cannons [and other guns] are not hard to find.

Warships are Slightly more expensive and slower to build than they could be, but this is mostly due to the tendency of the designers to constantly innovate, tweaking this or that to produce the best ship they can. Transport ships, on the other hand, are produced to a few standard designs, quickly, and cheaply, though of course still to a high quality. Mostly this is by way of applying the most useful elements of what is learnt in the construction of the warships, as well as the fact that a standardised design allows for rapid construction anyway.

The aristocracy provide a reasonable number of reliable candidates, bound by oath and blood to the ruler, to take diplomatic roles, and they typically know their place and duty well, so they tend to be reasonably good at it too. Additionally, due to the decentralised nature of the nation’s government and the need to keep the people satisfied with what is being done, many civil servants at all levels gain at least diplomatic skill simply by dealing with the day to day affairs of government. Those who show particular skill are often given more important diplomatic posts.

The nation’s spy network is large compared to it’s neighbours, though not particularly effective at acting in foreign territories as most of it’s members who are not kept busy with internal matters are skilled amateurs at best. Those belonging to the national government, rather than various factions, at least. However, a general sense of loyalty amongst the people due to how good their lot in life typically is, combined with the same constant internal ‘game’ makes it extremely difficult for foreign spies to operate effectively within angerman territory.

The Angerman, so keen to embrace new ideas, don’t care overly much about what religion is followed by people in other countries. For the most part, they don’t really care what religion their neighbours follow either. The over all effect is a nation of mixed religions, which over time tend to blend and adopt ideas from one another. This has reached the point where it’s best described as either all one, very strange, and highly mutable religion, or by saying that every household, or even individual, follows their own religion.

Merchants willing to go forth and set up new routs rather than continuing to manage those they already have established are few and far between, and most of those are acting on government orders. As a class, they rather like stability. When the nation is more stable, there are more of them to be found, but never as many as in places such as Incognitia.

The people of Angermanland have absolutely no interest whatsoever in going forth and colonising the world. With the rapid technological development taking place, there are ample opportunities at home to make a place for one’s self, after all, and if one managed to make a sufficient mess of one’s life that getting away was required, well, there’s always the navy.

The nation’s production capacity is very high, as there are many skilled workers to be found, and constant innovation are applied to improve the way things are done. The shipyards are one of the driving forces behind this, of course, but it is present in pretty much every other aspect of society as well.

Taxes collection methods are less efficient than they might be due to lax enforcement of relevant ordinances, reasonably normal levels of corruption, and a tendency to let people off when either it’s obvious they can’t pay or if they’re working on something which promises to pay well later [though records are typically kept of the latter, at the very least].

It is worth noting that for all that angermanland doesn’t have many merchants trading internationally and has few or no colonies, it’s efficiency at collecting the income from those that it does have is very high. Powerful ships protect convoys skilfully, and corruption is reasonably low.

Both the army and the navy do suffer somewhat from recruitment issues. There are Enough men to man the ships, and those newly constructed, and to fill out the ranks of the army, but hardly an abundance. [manpower levels are at 75% of an ‘average’ equivalent nation]

That said, the navy is extremely efficient at supporting and supplying it’s ships [part of the demand for transports is in the support of the warships], to the point where it can support as many as 20% more ships in a given area of operations without significant problems.

In combat at sea, few, if any, other force can go up against an angerman fleet, ship for ship, and expect to win. They are well trained, educated and equipped, as well as generally utterly confident in victory and highly disciplined. The same, unfortunately, cannot be said for the army, who are far more easily broken than their incognitian or frozopian counterparts. They are, however, still well equipped and at least reasonably well trained.

Shock tactics are almost anathema to the angerman military mind. At sea, they’d far rather out manoeuvre an enemy, immobilise him, and then blast him into submission, than attempt a boarding operation. On land, the emphasis is on sieges, and using cannon fire to shatter an enemy force. That said, few, if any, can outdo angerman troops in sieges, both offensively and defensively. Their skill with cannons and engineering serve them well in both cases. While the infantry aren’t quite up to frozopian standards of musketry, they are the equal of their incognitian counterparts in this area, and at least as good with cannons, which are one of the few things they field in large numbers, comparatively, due to their low cost.

All in all, the Angerman people Despise wars unless they are extremely well justified, short, and highly successful, spurning them as a waste of resources in most cases, and chafing under the restrictions that are required on their normal lives to maintain a force under conditions of conflict. While some of the nobility rather like the opportunities for glory, and the ships captains and crew like the idea of prize money, the aristocracy is not keen on anything which threatens their place in the world either.

The nation is undergoing a near constant scientific revolution, with some new discovery seemingly made every day, and many fortunes made and lost in the employment of such new developments. Educated citizens are easy to find, school and university attendance is comparatively high, as is literacy.

The distinctly liberal society does have it’s down sides, of course. People do get comfortable with the status quo, and unexpected changes can damage the stability of the nation. With anyone and everyone free to express their views and act mostly as they see fit, often leading to yet More changes to compensate, regaining that stability can be quite difficult, and takes quite some time.

file for frozopia based on above limitations:

The power is mostly in the hands of the aristocrats, government is somewhat centralised, and new ideas have great difficulty taking root, though are not always rejected. Frozopia puts great emphasis on it’s army, with it’s navy being a mere afterthought, only really even considered when the army has need of ocean going transports. The government controls most trade in and out of the country, and the people have very few freedoms, most aspects of their lives being dictated from above. The army and what navy there actually is both emphasize the quality of individual soldiers and leaders, as well as units as a whole, over how many are at hand, and particullary concentrate on offensive methods of warfare. After all, what need has one to defend, if the enemy is too busy protecting themselves to attack?

Cabinet. by appointing ministers to oversee specific areas [as well as represent those areas to any elected bodies or the public at large] you reduce the load on the ruler somewhat. This concept also includes the formalisation of the rulers inner circle of advisers and confidants, effectively providing more people who can fill diplomatic roles, at least on specific issues.

Grand army can support larger armies [in terms of financial and internal opinion issues.]

Espionage your spies aren’t simply people who happen to have a bit of an idea how to play the game. At the very least, the ‘local’ spy masters are trained professionals. This gives your intelligence networks, such as they may be, a significant boost, making the insertion of spies, as well as their information gathering and delivery, significantly better.

With horses readily available, and entire social classes dedicated purely, or at least in part, to military pursuits, recruiting useful cavalry can be done quickly and cheaply. Still more expensive to train and maintain than infantry, most of the cavalry’s training costs are shouldered by the individuals as simply part of life, rather than by the government

Infantry are also easier to equip and train for frozopia for similar reasons , though to a lesser extent.

The over all offensive emphasis of the military has lead to a lesser demand for cannon when compared to infantry and cavalry weapons, and as such less are made, and so less people make them, and they cost more to produce as a result. Training crew to high quality also takes longer due to a shortage of qualified personal. Also, the highly stratified society and lack of emphasis also contribute to the lack of skilled craftsmen who can make them.

Ships of all sorts take a long time to build in Frozopia’s few useful naval construction yards, and are expensive. Skilled artisans in this area are rare, and often imported for specific projects. Additionally, many of the workers are rather unskilled.

The aristocracy provide a reasonable number of reliable candidates, bound by oath and blood to the ruler, to take diplomatic roles, and they typically know their place and duty well, so they tend to be reasonably good at it too. Of course, there are always exceptions. Additionaly, the formal council which makes up the nation’s cabinet provides skilled and knowledgeable ministers who can serve this role.

The nation’s spy network is large compared to it’s neighbours, and the best in the area at gathering information. Many of it’s agents are professional spies and spy-masters. Unfortunately, factional dispute amongst the nobility and general dissatisfaction amongst the people mean that some of these spies are often tied up dealing with internal conflicts, and it is relatively easy for enemy agents to discover information and conduct other acts. However, if frozopian agents discover such activity, those responsible are unlikely to escape.

Frozopia is one of the few nations who’s government and citizens are taking an active interest in spreading their religion at this time. so far, at least, not at the point of the sword, but instead with missionaries, though their numbers are not exactly large yet.

Merchants willing to go forth and set up new routs rather than continuing to manage those they already have established are few and far between, and most of those are acting on government orders. As a class, they rather like stability. When the nation is more stable, there are more of them to be found, but never as many as in places such as Incognitia. Additionally, those who do go forth often have a very hard time competing against their more flexible rivals. Reliability will only get you so far.

The combination of desire and ability means there is a small but steady trickle of people willing to apply to the government to be sent to new lands as colonists, usually in return for elevated social status compared to their current position, or to escape… unfortunate circumstances at home.

The nation’s production capacity is slightly better than average, but could easily be better. Once again, tradition makes for slow going when new ideas for improving it are presented.

Taxes are collected efficiently, with corruption present but manageable, though there are still some losses to bureaucratic overhead and non-payment.

The lack of naval emphasis means much of the wealth which might be gained from Frozopia’s colonies is lost to the management of those colonies, corruption, piracy, and personal ambition. Additionally, an unwillingness to adopt new methods for new situations reduces the number of opportunities which are taken advantage of effectively. Some wealth still makes it’s way into the coffers in the capital, but significantly less than could be the case.

Both Frozopia’s army and navy have no problem with recruitment, as combat offers the opportunity for glory, prestige, and advancement within the nation, as well as fulfilling one’s societal obligations. [rough estimate, frozopia can maintain a standing army 115-130% as large as the equivalent population in an ‘average’ nation]

The armies are both skilled at managing their supply trains, and willing and able to live off the land to a large extent for short periods of time, allowing a given area to support greater than as 25% more frozopian troops than those of other nations. At least for a time.

Frozopian soldiers are noticeably harder to break on the battlefield than most others, showing bravery and discipline far greater than those of neighbouring nations.

Both on the land and at sea, frozopian fighting personal are particularly skilled in shock tactics, such as the charge, boarding, and the like, and their leaders well trained in these areas. They are also one of, if not the, most effective when it comes to firing solid volleys or broadsides.

The frozopian people pretty much accept war as something that happens. They don’t complain about it. in fact, many of them express a great amount of support for whatever wars might be taking place, or potentially take place. War justifies the lot many of them have in life, and as such will sometimes even reduce dissatisfaction amongst the populous, and will certainly keep the nobility occupied, at the very least.

Over all, the nation’s educated scientists are few, often in the employ of rebellious young nobles, and not as well trained as they could be. What discoveries are made are typically by people ‘on the job’ in war and crafts, and often have a hard time gaining wide acceptance without a lot of time and effort.

The highly stratified society and strong military makes keeping the realm stable something of an easy task for the government, so long as they don’t do anything catastrophically stupid. And if worst comes to worst, it’s a simple matter of stationing a reasonably large body of soldiers in the area or taking the fight to a few rebels and renegades.

file generated for terror incognitia based on above limitations:


The power is mostly in the hands of the wealthy, administration shows vague signs of centralisation, it’s people are reasonably open to new ideas, the government keeps an eye on trade but isn’t particularly controlling, the army and navy somewhat emphasise offensive operations, quality is considered somewhat more important than quantity when it comes to troops and ships, and the citizens are, by and large, free to live their own lives as they see fit.

Shrewd commerce practices your merchants are wily, understanding many of the driving economic forces behind what they do more intimately than most. They also know the advantage of not taking so much that there’s nothing to come back for the next time, among other things. They’re more likely, at least in the long run, to win any commercial ‘war’ than their competitors too, at least so long as it stays firmly in the realm of the economic.

National bank. By settings strict limits on the behaviour of financial institutions, and having a central reserve bank which sets the base rates upon which their choices must rest, inflation and corruption can be, if not eliminated, at least greatly reduced and tightly controlled in the financial sector of your nation.

Bill of rights. At some point, official law has been passed guaranteeing the population, or at least certain portions of it, inalienable rights [there may well be associated responsibilities they must uphold to qualify for them, but they’re there.] on balance, while this limits what actions you can take within your nation somewhat, it also significantly reduces the risk that the people will take up arms against you in… protest. At least so long as an alternative method of expressing their views is provided in the bill. Wether the ‘people’ are the nobility, or the peasants, really depends on how the bill is written.

Cavalry units are expensive and time consuming to equip and train, as few have the necessarily skills and equipment before signing up.

Infantry, while cheaper, still costs a bit as the troops most definitely expect to be payed, whatever else they may or may not expect. Again, few enter the army with much in the way of the required skills before training.

The over all offensive emphasis of the military has lead to a lesser demand for cannon when compared to infantry and cavalry weapons, and as such less are made, and so less people make them, and they cost more to produce as a result. Training crew to high quality also takes longer due to a shortage of qualified personal.

Ships of all sorts are built quickly and cheaply, and continuously in the various shipyards of the nation, warships and civilian ships alike.

Few, if any, diplomats are to be found, and when they are, they’re probably either merchants moonlighting for the government, or immediate family or trusted friends of the ruler.

The nation’s spy network, though small and slow to expand, is reasonably competent. A combination of this and a loyal population makes enemy espionage in the nation more difficult than it otherwise might be; though by no means impossible.

The government is taking no interest in the spreading of the nation’s chief religion, or any others. And frankly, none of the population are showing any inclination to go forth and spread the word either.

Merchants are to be found pretty much as you’d expect, the more prosperous the nation is, the more trade there is, the more stable the general area, the more merchants there are. And incognitian merchants are particularly shrewd. Remarkably, they’re also the most inclined to pay the requisite share of their earnings to the government with the least hassle of the nations in the area.

The people of Incognitia have little or no desire to go out and colonise other lands. They’re quite happy staying in civilised lands, thank you.

The nation’s production capacity Is reasonably well organised and effective, though by no means an industrial monster.

Taxes are collected reasonably fairly and efficiently, though there are still some losses to beraurocratic overhead, corruption, and non-payment.

What few colonies and conquests the nation’s picked up in other lands along the way are reasonably productive, paying their taxes mostly on time and mostly in full. However, they suffer from the useual tax collection problems, as well as the occasional act of piracy if naval vessels are not tasked with the protection of the transports.

The incognitian army and navy both suffer a little from lower recruitment rates than they could have [estimates place it at about 90% of what would be expected of a nation that size], however both army and navy are well trained and fairly effective.

The nation’s harbours are well equiped to handle reasonable numbers of ships, allowing them to support slightly higher numbers of warships without straining the supply network overly much

Both on the land and at sea, incognitian fighting personal are particularly skilled in shock tactics, such as the charge, boarding, and the like, and their leaders well trained in these areas. They are also above average when it comes to fireing solid volleys or broadsides.

While it doesn’t take long for the incognitian people to start grumbling about any war that may be being fought, it is supremely unlikely for that grumbling to become anything more without outside influence.

Over all, the nation’s educated scientists are reasonably good at what they do, gradually expanding the boundaries of knowledge and occasionally discovering important and entirely new things in various fields.

The nation suffers from a weakness, however, in that after significant upheavals of any sort, from starting a war to forcing significant change to their way of life, the people are slow to settle back into a more stable state, so any upheavals can have wider reaching repercussions, for longer, than might otherwise be the case.

What's '30 years war era' in idiot terms?

we're talking matchlock muskets which take a full minute or so to reload, cavalry who may or may not wear armour and are armed with wheel lock pistols and sabers. artillery that's useful as field guns, though not as good as that available in the Napoleonic era and significantly less practically maneuverable.
the pike still has a place in battle, providing almost as much shock as cavalry on the offensive when properly used [they don't charge, mind, they push], and the defensive staying power the muskets don't have once they've fired.

though becoming rarer, units armed with swords and shields can still be found, used mostly to deal with the threat of pikes. halberds are useful and effective if properly employed as well, though it requires a lot more training to get an effective halberdier than it does to get an effective pike man.

units will typically take much higher casualties before breaking than in later eras as well, for the simple reason that the only way to survive is to keep going. break and run, the cavalry will run you down. stop, the musketeers and cannons will tear you apart. advancing is the only real option for survival once you begin. that said, they're still human.

so far as social and economic ideas and concepts are concerned, we're looking at the 'early modern' era... basically, if you can find it today and strip it Way back down to it's initial form, that's about what we're looking at.

the printing press is around. steam power is still a way off. castles, properly reinforced, modified, or simply recently built, are still relatively effective defenses... at least until your opponent brings up proper siege cannon, but they're ridiculously expensive to build and maintain, and slow to transport.

if you've seen the big sailing ships from the Napoleonic and later eras, the first ships recognizable as that kind of warship are in use, but still in their early stages of development.

oh, trained European [especially German and Italian] 'swordsmen' come ridiculously close to living up to the Myth that surrounds the Japaneses samurai. of course, European, german, italian, and japanese have no meaning in this RP :)

IRL, the Americas had been discovered, Spain has colonized them and still has it's empire, i think. from memory, France and england were just starting to do colonize North America. in the RP, that's going to amount to people who chose the right ideas and settings getting to have colonies on another continent. [hint: Quest for the New World is a MUST if colonization of other lands is your goal. otherwise those nations who take it will find the places first, and if possible take it all, like spain and portugal in south america. ]

not sure if that's quite an idiots guide to what it means, but it's a lot more detail regarding tech.

oh, bear in mind: quirky tech which has IC justification and is well RP'd, as well as not being obviously impossible may well show up if there isn't any significant objection to it. it won't always work, of course, and it'll never be impossible to do with the resources available, nor will things that aren't at least Plauseably likely to work... work. the idea being 'just because no one came up with it in OUR time line, doesn't mean they couldn't in a different one' ... where it's actually possible, mind you.

edit: that's what 30 years war era tech means, anyway.
as for the 30 years war era it's Self... it was a big war that engulfed pretty much all of Europe from France [or at least it's border] all the way to Poland [or at least it's border]. theoretically between 'Catholics', mostly in the south, and 'Protestants', mostly in the north. in reality much of it was the various princes deciding they didn't like being part of the HRE anymore, and swedish ambition, and the Austrian HREmperor's stubbornness, sundry others looking to make a name for them selves. or so it looks to me. not to mention most of the soldiers were mercenaries, apparently. prone to switching sides as individuals or entire units from one battle to the next depending who was winning, who was paying, and what opportunities there were for plunder. the general population got pretty much screwed by the whole deal.

tagy.

@Anger: So...I have to put my nation through that flaming hoola-hoop of a process to come out with the statistics or what?

from the list of 'national ideas' chose three.

for each of the eight pairs of descriptors [centralized/decentralized etc] chose the number that best fits your nation as you envisage it. [ie, how much of each of those things it is], 1 being as much the first half of the pair as possible, 11 as much the second half, 6 being utterly neutral and balanced, anything else being a point in between. [i'd advise you taking a land emphasis rather than a naval, because i know exactly where to put you on the map if you do. yes, i'm aware the map's not up there yet]

from that, I'll produce a file like the ones i posted for myself, frozo, and incog, and put it up here.

use that as a basis for writing your fact book and knowing your nations Weaknesses as well as it's strengths and the like.

actually, along the way it does produce actual statistics. they're just pretty much irrelevant to the RP once i generate the resulting file. except perhaps occasionally in resolving disputes.

it's actually nothing like as complex as it looks.

edit: i do most of the work for you, and if you get on msn it can be done quite quickly.

OOC: Did you get this from Europa Universalis III? How do I sign up?

@ Mass Prediction: view the post above; it needs a series of 8 numbers, and three ideas from the list.
If you're not sure, put up some ideas of what you're after, and someone (probably Angermanland) will suggest suitable National Ideas and slider values.

OOC: I'll just use the National Ideas from EU3.

National Ideas:

Excellent Shipwrights
Divine Supremacy
Military Drill

Ideology

Aristocracy-----I-----Plutocracy = 6
Centralisation--I--------Decentralisation = 3
Innovative-------I---Narrowminded = 8
Land----I------Naval = 5
Offensive----I------Defensive = 5
Mecantilism-----I------Free Trade = 6
Quality--I--------Quantity = 3
Serfdom----I------Free Subjects = 5

'just using the national ideas from EU3' is a bit redundant, seeing as how that's exactly what the listed ones are :) the only modifications are to the effects so that they fit an RP rather than the computer run strat game.

I'll get to work on your file now.

for future reference [and so far I'm the one who's 'violated' this in the biggest way], the end result is going to be a lot easier to deal with if the slider combinations make sense :) [decentralized mercantilism is a bit of a challenge, for example]

i wonder if anyone will ever take quantity over quality?

*goes to start work on the file*

file for Mass Prediction:

Mass Prediction

8 million pop

power is split between those with hereditary titles and those with wealth. government is significantly centralized, though the various provinces do have Some autonomy. It takes some effort to get new ideas, concepts, and technology accepted and used, but it’s hardly impossible. Mass Prediction puts some small emphasis on it’s army, though it’s navy is hardly neglected. The government has a hand in international trade, but doesn’t interfere much. Little emphasis is placed one way or the other in terms of the nature of military strategy and tactics, leaving individual commanders to make their own decisions. Almost as much emphasis is placed on the quality of soldiers, leaders, and equipment at the expense of numbers as is the case in Frozopia.

Excellent shipwrights ships are faster and/or can take more damage and continue functioning

Military drill soldiers fight more effectively

Divine supremacy your people, or at least the major religion in your nation, believe their faith to be the one true faith, and that it should be spread far and wide. Between that and the well established church training priests for the task, missionaries are easy to come by and ready to go and serve.

horses not exactly hard to come by. However, the emphasis on quality combined with only average interest on the part of the nobility in war, thus leaving the slack to be taken up by others, results in cavalry which are slightly more expensive and time consuming to train than they might be. While this is not exactly crippling, it is slightly noticeable when compared to Angerman cavalry, and blatantly obvious when compared to the noble cavalry of Frozopia.

The combined effects of what lingering elements of serfdom can be found in the nation, the emphasis on quality, and the emphasis on land warfare results in infantry that are also slightly more expensive than they could be. This places the required training time and cost roughly half way between that of Frozopia and Incognitia, though noticeably less than that of the infantry of Angermanland.

While cannons are not as cheap, and their crew not as skilled, as those found in the forces of Angermanland, Mass Predicition has, none the less, taken to the idea well enough, producing reasonable quantities at reasonable cost, giving them a distinct edge in this area against forces such as the Frozopian army.

Warship construction time is of a match to that of the harbours of Angermanland, however where angermanland is slowed down slightly by constant changes, Mass Predicition is instead slowed by it’s weaker production capabilities combined with the extra effort required to produce it’s superior ships. These factors also affect the cost somewhat. the lack of emphasis on sea going interests however, makes it’s self felt in the area of transport and merchant ships. While Mass Prediction can compete for in warship construction, in this area it falls behind significantly, it’s ships being noticeably more expensive and time consuming to build than those from incognita, and drastically so compared to Angerman ships. Of course, it goes with out saying that it’s still doing better than Frozopia in this area. None the less, even here the results are superior, producing ships with greater cargo capacity, speed, and/or seaworthiness.

In the area of diplomacy, Mass Prediction finds it’s self slightly limited. It has enough people with enough skill to handle normal events, but will quickly become swamped if too many things need to be done at once. They’re mostly drawn from the ruler’s family, though various individuals specialising in such things may be hired, or merchants instructed to take up the role, or the occasional trusted noble sent to do the job, when necessary.

The nation’s spy network is of slightly above average size, and its spy masters are careful to husband their resources. Mass Predictions spies are some of, if not the, best in the world at gathering information and carrying out secret missions. That said, other nation’s spies don’t have too much difficulty doing the same in Mass Prediction’s lands, as the general population have little care for the doings of their betters, and more than a few will happily give up what they know for the right price.

Mass Predicition’s religious community have taken to the idea of spreading their idea of the ‘one true faith’ with great enthusiasm. While they have yet to take up the sword in this pursuit, their fervour in this endeavour is great enough for some to find its potential effects worrying. As a result of this, willing missionaries are easy to come by.

Merchants will rarely take up new trade routs not specifically requested by the government, but it’s not unknown. The comparative profits from government approved routs, combined with the adjustment in tariffs for following them, mean that they’re more willing to finance the expeditions themselves as well, there by reducing the cost to the government. People with a desire to follow this life, however, are fewer than they could be, meaning incognitian merchants are still somewhat more common in ports and major trading cities than those from Mass Prediction. It is, however, worth noting that the merchants from this nation aren’t exactly the most skilled. Incognitian merchants have little or no trouble competing with and surpassing them in any unrestricted environment, while what few angerman merchants are to be found will also not exactly find it difficult to get ahead.

The innate view of their nation as superior to those around them, combined with a lack of interest in what few disincentives there are, [mostly those only apply to merchants anyway] mean colonists are reasonably easy to come by here. While still not a great flood, it is enough that colonising new lands should be relatively easy, if not exactly fast.

The nation’s production capacity is slightly better than average, but could easily be better. The demands of the army eat into a little of it, and the tendency for significant chunks of it to be diverted towards individual schemes rather than the national interest removes a lot more as a meaningful factor.

Taxes are collected remarkably efficiently, with what little corruption there is being manageable. The centralised government and lack of significant other factors mean that little of it is diverted before reaching the national treasury.

The slgiht lack of naval emphasis means that a portion of that wealth which might come from various colonies and trading posts across the ocean is lost to piracy, and to the managing of those colonies themselves in the absence of significant support from home. However, the vast majority still reaches the capital.

Both army and navy have little problem with recruitment, however the cost of training equipment, and supplies for recruits does put something of a limit on how many they can take. [rough estimate, mass prediction can maintain a standing army 97.5%% as large as the equivalent population in an ‘average’ nation]

Mass Prediction’s army is well trained in Military discipline. The infantry will follow orders more quickly and precisely than most. muskets and cannon will be reloaded slightly faster on average. the cavalry have a slightly easier time maintaining formation and are more likely to heed a recall order. Pikemen are more likely to react to the need to change facing and stance due to enemy activity quickly enough, Provided the relivent order is given. On balance this greatly increases their odds of victory in battle quite significantly.

When it comes to standing and fighting, or advancing, in the face of enemy cannon fire, cavalry charges, and the like, Mass Predicition’s forces don’t hold a candle to the juggernaught that is the Frozopian army, and struggle event to match the soldiers of incognitia. They do compare reasonably favourably to Angerman soldiers, however, at least in open warfare.

As a side effect of the quality emphasis and drill, Mass Prediction’s solders and officers are almost as skilled at ranged combat as those of Frozopia, and noticeably superior to those of Incognitia and Angermanland. Knowing when to advance, retreat, hold, or other wise manoeuvre to get the best firing positions, how long to wait in the face of a charge before firing, judging the distance of cannon shot, and the like.

The on balance, due at least in part to their sense of national superiority, the people are even less inclined to become dissatisfied due to war than those of Frozopia. Without other poor decisions or enemy agents provocateur acting in their lands, the people of Mass Prediction will generally just shrug and get on with life.

On balance, the nation’s scientific advance is slightly slower than that even of Frozopia, due at least in part to an unwillingness to accept the ideas of other ‘less civilised’ nations as having any merit. This shows it’s self in all areas.

While centralisation, serfdom, and other such factors do make it easier to regain any lost stability in the realm, the advantage is not as great as that of Frozopia. [of course, compared to the disaster that is angermanland or incognitia in this regard, it is still a huge advantage.]

mass predicition:

I'll add you to the link list in the first page once you write your fact book.
I'd advise that you don't post that until after we get the maps up though. the terrain and who you border will be significant.
for now, I'll just add your name to the list :)

My factbook is right here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=558537

Bump

A bit different to what I thought. I'll give it a miss, thanks, but looks like a good RP to come.

Angermanland sounded familiar, and then I remembered the WWII character RP we did. Back in the days when...well, I couldn't RP then either, but it was fun while it lasted and sad to see it die.

Well, have fun, all.

ww2 character RP? never did one of those that i remember. there was a nation based one that didn't go anywhere much, but that was for rather different reasons...

actually, I've done very few character RPs, none of them were very good for various reasons, and none of them lasted very long.

edit the second: my first RP was actually also Terror Incognitia and Frozopia's first as well, from memory. a big war against Aust, probably best remembered for the event which lead to my signature. lots of promise there. my personal biggest failing was a total inability to spell. Firefox having a spell checker helps a lot in that regard :) don't think I've ever been Bad at this, now that i think about it...

on a completely different note:

Mass Prediction, there was a reason that i asked you to wait until the map was posted before doing your fact book up. the most significant issue with it is actually that the geographical description.. doesn't exist on the map. hopefully where I've put you will do. I'll post links to the map as soon as Incog or Frozo manage to figure out hosting it somewhere.

also 'The Charter of Mass Prediction declares that "every man shalt be judged by his owne weight in Morals and in Streyngth..." ' conflicts with your nation's slight bias towards serfdom rather than freedom, and if it's actually law rather than just a vague pronouncement of ideals then it also conflicts with the fact that you don't have the relevant national idea. [edit: or at least, this appears to be the case.]

more ideas, as well as changes to your nation's position on various scales can come about as a result of IC developments, but both bring about fairly significant changes and upheavals, and/or take quite a while to implement. as such there needs to be a fairly significant IC justification for them, as well.

hopefully where I've put you will do.

As long as it's not on an island.

*laughs* no, it's not on an island. though we do still have a couple of those. and an interesting peninsula which is connected to the rest of the continent by what appears to be a narrow stretch of sea-level-ish swamp. actually, where i've put you is bordering frozo, with your territory mostly being hill country and forest. you do have quite a significant coastline though.

Clearly, you have a memory worse than mine.
Well, have fun, shoot each other nicely and N00KS DIDN'T EXIST THEN.

huh... i ran a search, i Had forgotten that rp, i think...
even so, it's still nation based rather than character based as of the first few posts, so perhaps that's what threw me off...
but yeah, my memory Is pretty bad when it comes to recalling exactly what i want when i want to.

Right. links to the maps are now in the first post.

the nature of the site they're hosted on means i can't put the maps themselves into the thread... but they're untidy and full of white space, so i don't mind that so much :D

[the big line through the middle is an unfortunate side effect of me having to assemble them from several screen shots.]

Mass Prediction, if you could please update your fact book to actually line up with the maps and the limitation file, i'll link it on the main page and we can start doing stuff involving you [among other things, you're in a good position to interact with myself and frozopia, both peacefully and in war]

also, please include a link back to this thread at the start of the post.

i hope this isn't triple posting, Jolt is being weird, but...

also worth noting: your nation is actually the most technologically Backward of the four though it's worth noting that the difference between your nation and Frozopia won't be noticeable for Centuries, it's that small :D].

actually, the more i look at that fact book post you made, the more i find conflicts between it and your limitations file...
if you can't think of anything else, just copy and paste the limitations file and use that until you come up with more details and specifics. i'd rather you didn't if possible, but it's better than nothing, ya know?

[i call it a file because i have a file on my comp here. it's probably not a 'file' as such when it's a post, i guess. ]

(early note, it's Spooty, or Toops, or hell, whatever puppet you remember me by.)

You mentioned that the current Map is psuedo-Europe, would it be worth waiting for you to release your psuedo-Africa, or ought I fill up as much space in (Europe) as possible?

(early note, it's Spooty, or Toops, or hell, whatever puppet you remember me by.)

You mentioned that the current Map is psuedo-Europe, would it be worth waiting for you to release your psuedo-Africa, or ought I fill up as much space in (Europe) as possible?

Long time no see toops!

Filling up Europe is generally a good idea. Whereabouts is best decided by your own judgement and whatever slider values you choose (i.e. throwing yourself in a dessert with strong naval capabilities is...a little weak shall i say?)

throwing yourself in a dessert

I am liking that idea :P

I just now looked at the Map, my god, it's awful!!! I can't work out anything, the Terrain map is no more than an incoherent jumbling of oddly shaped blobs, the only map I could access didn't show any obvious Desert Terrain, and the heavy predominance on Archipelego makes me slightly aprehensive about joining, Africa or no.

I'll wish ye luck and leave ye be, sorry, it's just not the game for me.

the terrain map is bad, yes. mostly due to lack of key due to how it was created... went with best guesses based on colours.

the map of the different nations is divided into territories where unclaimed

and the archipelago looking thing? that's a WORLD map. those are continents. mostly not as big as IRL, but there are more of them to compensate.

also, as frozopia was SUPPOSED to put in the recruitment thread, you actually DON"T get to chose where your nation is. it'll depend on what settings you chose and where we need people.

it's not 'choosing a naval emphasis and starting in the desert is bad' it's 'if you take a naval emphasis, you're obviously not going to be put in the desert'

Argh. and the ONLY map frozo linked in the recruitment thread is the 'nations and unclaimed territories' one. all those random colours? Unclaimed.

the first post of THIS thread has the world and the area etc.

*sigh* i hate trying to organize this stuff.

the three maps in the first post of this thread are:
borders and unclaimed teritories
the world [it looks archipelago-y because there are more continents which are smaller, but fewer significant islands, which are mostly larger]
and the Third link is the terrain map for the 'Europe' equivalent area. the yellow-y white stuff we figured was probably desert. but there was so much of it we ended up saying 'ok, most of it's just crappy land, not Actual desert'

all righty:

on the subject of ships, warships specifically, we have the following information for the period this RP is set in:

so, we have a rough definition: if it's built in the last 20 years, 1st rate is 1000+ tons and 50+ guns, 2nd rate is 750+ and 40-50 guns, 3rd rate is about 500 tons and 30-35 guns. if it's older than that, everything pretty much takes a step down

anything 3rd rate or bigger is a 'large' ship. anything smaller, built primarily for war, and not a galley, is a 'small' ship. everything else [armed merchants, galleys , unarmed cargo ships, canoes with a crossbow strapped to the bow] is a transport for the purposes of the limitations documents.

edit: please note that things such as east-indiamen do not fall into the 'transport' category by way of being, on occasion, as heavily armed as third rates, and there being instances of them being part of a line of battle. that right there puts them in the 'warship' category, if nothing else.