NationStates Jolt Archive


Low-cost fighter/trainer now for sale: F-5M "Tigro El Cheapo" [NS Draftroom Approved]

Vault 10
15-05-2008, 03:33
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/F5_von_c130.jpg/300px-F5_von_c130.jpg
BRIEF HIGHLIGHTS:

Technological benefits:
* Variants using jet fuel or liquid hydrogen
* Usable as a multirole fighter or a high-performance supersonic trainer
* High manoeuvrability thanks to lightweight construction
* Not top-grade, but contemporary avionics
* Advanced ejector seat

Economic benefits:
* Unit cost starting at $4 million
* Minimal maintenance requirements - at least 3-5 times lower than for a typical fighter
* Low fuel consumption



INTRODUCTION


Aerospace Logistics aircraft, unlike some other products, have never been known to be expensive. The lack of roads, as well as long distances and bandits, made aviation the most viable mode of transportation, so planes had to be affordable. And, thanks to great scale of production, both personal aircraft and airliners from ALC were always very competitively priced, to say the least, while staying up to date technologically.


This wasn't always so easy with combat aircraft, however. High costs and long development terms, combined with immediate need for more airframes due to the civil war, made regiment commanders opt for older and cheaper inventory. And, as the civil war was losing its intensity, by the law of universal conservation the pressure to lower expenses intensified.

Despite the advances, the company's unwillingness to spend funds on warfare left the commanders with a need to prefer the evolutionary approach. Or, less euphemistically, well proven and matured designs. Or, plainly, as of 2008 the Fighting Falcon wasn't yet quite on its way to replace Tiger II and Crusader as the standard fighters of the Aerospace Logistics fighter fleet.
New fighters were developed, accepted in small numbers, but no new fighter was as good as to be a replacement for multiple older ones. In a warped way, the abundance of pilots due to widespread personal aviation led to a situation where, when it came to the question of what to put on the treadmill, innovation lost to efficiency. Finally, the administration gave up and just kept the Cost-Cutting Section the most funded out of all the Engineering department.


As always, they had to prove themselves with a new fighter, and they wanted it to be different - to actually be built and purchased by regiment commanders. And for that, it had to be cheap; not just reasonably priced as F-35, not affordable as SAAB Gripen, not even merely low-cost as F-16, but seriously cheap. With a capital "C", but preferably without capital "heap" (as not to waste ink).


Most of the earlier ALC upgrades to the Tiger II were in fact intended to make it even cheaper. Which, for F-5, the fighter that used to be eight times cheaper than its 1960s contemporaries, thanks to being based on a decoy drone engine and a trainer's airframe, is no easy task.
But no one can say the engineers weren't trying: nothing that made the original Tiger II so good was gone, it kept up with the times, yet costs still went down due to painstaking fiddling. Their efforts were not in vain, and the F-5 is still produced by the company, projected to remain in service until 2085.

So what is that new model that allows to keep F-5 in service for so long? Let's see.



F-5M - TIGRO EL CHEAPO


F-5M is itself an upgraded (according to the brochure) or downgraded (according to the pilots) - there's no clear consensus on this point - trainer/fighter revision of F-5G. It has no official name, but has been dubbed "Tigro El Cheapo" by the crews, referring to extensive use of foreign components and labor. The letter "M" is rumored to stand for "Miser", or, alternately, for "Moses", comparing the F-5M's introduction on the 40th anniversary of F-5 Freedom Fighter with Moses' achievement of finding the only place in the Middle East where there's no oil.

The El Cheapo airframe is built of approximately 75% fibreglass, 5% Kevlar, 10% aluminium alloy, and 10% other materials. Thanks to this, the airframe is much cheaper to build and significantly (800kg) lighter than that of the original, but only capable of Mach 1.5, rather than Mach 2.1 as F-5G, since the cheap composite materials used don't take heat well.

The original General Electric F404-GE-100 afterburning turbofan, developing 18klbf or 80kN of thrust, was replaced by a lighter and cheaper Aerospace Logistics TF-72, a largely similar engine, but only capable of 72kN. Since afterburners can damage plastic airframes (requiring more metal), produce heat stress increasing maintenance hours, and most importantly consume expensive fuel, the F-5M engine, obviously, has no afterburner, and features a bypass ratio of 0.7 for better fuel economy.
Since it was designed for minimal maintenance, the engine can be easily disconnected, removed from the aircraft and disassembled into four main parts for individual replacement of each. Thanks to aramide composite fan blades, fibreglass-reinforced casing, and lack of afterburner, the engine only weighs 750kg, 250 less than F-5G F-404, and is over a meter shorter. Unfortunately, it's still heavier and larger than the F-85's twin J85 (which fit into 400-kg and 1.2m), proving that as good the Cost-Cutting Division engineers are, they aren't quite as good as Northrop's were in 1960s.

So, is there a single part of F-5M that isn't all about cheapness?
Yes. Since the regiment commanders were willing to pay for decreased detectability, the S-curved intakes retain metal parts, coated with a low-cost radar absorbent material, similar to that on MLSS-21, to cover the engine from radar waves. The engine casing has the same RAM applied to it. Avionics block shielding is similarly faceted and coated. And all that.
Is then F-5M a stealth aircraft?

No. As the radar-transparent fibreglass wings and most of fuselage already offered a great RCS reduction, it was merely decided to use the opportunity. The most detectable parts just were made less detectable using basic technology, and only from frontal hemisphere and from below, with little attention paid to the rear. Not all reflecting parts are protected, only the major ones, and only when it was easy to do. There is no internal bay, and all payload is well visible, especially from the side. Joints and openings aren't finely sealed and matched, surface finish is far from perfect, the overall build quality is purely functional. While lack of afterburner makes the exhaust a bit cooler, it's nowhere near true stealth aircraft such as B-2.
True stealth only begins at low RCS, and the Tigro El Cheapo doesn't have any other necessary stealth features, except for one: emissions reduction.



http://www.webweavers.co.nz/system-80/hardware_stringy.jpg (http://www.webweavers.co.nz/system-80/hardware_stringy_ad_large.jpg)
Fig.1. All avionics used in F-5M have been certified by a panel of experts to be simply amazing.


Due to the appalling 20-km range of the original radar, its merely low (but not extremely low) maintenance requirements, and very high cost of modern AESA alternatives that could offer good range, it was decided not to bother mounting a radar on the El Cheapo at all, thus eliminating emissions from it. Some of the radar-related features are still in place, such as a terrain-following radar for navigation and a sensitive radar warning receiver. But instead of a search and tracking radar, the aircraft's nosecone houses a more compact and cheaper, but effective FLIR system. It provides a target identification range of 10km, but detection range of 30km against a typical modern fighter, which means most times the plane would have to fire blind, unless it receives data from other sources. But this is OK, because in comparison to most modern ASF the F-5M only has advantage in dogfights (thanks to the agility of a light fighter) and missile evasion, and would be either going for close range with a loud "Kiyaeee!" scream or be guided by AWACS and heavier fighters. The first is especially effective when piloted by Asians used with inspiration.


Thanks to its amazing radar capabilities, F-5M achieves a world first - it's the world's first fighter ever to receive data and guidance from its missiles, rather than provide it to them.
The technological wonders don't end here. F-5M also has a system called "Fly-by-Tension-Wire" (FTW), which uses advanced glass fibre tension wires instead of simple copper wires in conventional FBW systems. Whole two pages of the brochure given to the pilots (since the manual is replaced by an online wiki to be written by crews) are dedicated to advantages of this system over the common FBW.


Of course, putting proper military-grade processing systems was out of question, as they take a lot of place, consume power (which means fuel) and are very expensive. Instead, opening the nosecone and the shielding cage gives access to an 8U, 50cm, 400mm deep fully railed rack, for all avionics needs. Industrial-grade hardware is installed into the rack, providing for all processing needs, with the level of redundancy depending on the specific operator's preference. A basic set of true analog flight instruments, fully certified for general aviation, in no way connected to the processing unit, is provided in the cockpit. The digital part of the avionics displays its output on one 24", two 20" CRT color displays, the HUD and the helmet display. The input in flight uses standard stick and throttle system, while for advanced functions is utilizes a QWERTY keyboard, a trackball, and programmable buttons under the screens. Due to previous complaints from pilots without individual planes, touchscreen functionality was not provided. All of this is controlled by CP/M-32, a real-time POSIX-compatible 32-bit operating system, modified on open-source basis.

Introduction of this highly innovative avionics suite provided an increase in the ejection rate to over 30 ejections per 100 pilots, a record among ALC aircraft in peacetime service. However, thanks to the reliability of FTW system, instantly disconnected from avionics with a lever chopping off the wires, the flight controls usually stayed unaffected. Most of the ejections were caused by the failure of communications, errors in data provided on the screens, mostly in night-time flights, or actual combat damage quickly rendering the avionics insane. This rate was suspicious, so, a further investigation was started, first following the F-5L case, where pilots watching video tapes tended to mistakenly grab the wrong stick. In its time, that was solved by increasing the funding for Aerospace Logistics Pimping Corps.
However, as almost all flightsuits were proven to be intact, this mystery stayed, until an investigator's kid, Kevin Brodovski, climbed behind the pilot's seat in one flight. There, he discovered the main reason for near-crashes: instead of boring themselves with such things as flying a jet fighter, thanks to the astonishing performance of the new avionics, the pilots were playing such high-performance and active games as ADOM, Wasteland, and Star Control. So far all attempts to block programs were hacked around, but don't worry: the search for a solution is underway.



http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/K-36.gif (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=3169)
Fig.2. "...But the important thing is..."

[Ejector seat main design thread - on HTDC] (http://z3.invisionfree.com/HighTech/index.php?showtopic=106)

[Ejector seat sales thread - on II] (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556077)


But there is one component in this fighter which is actually built properly and, furthermore, works properly.
The Symmetriad Laertes IV ejection seat, as name suggests, was not developed by the Cost-Cutting Section of the ALC Engineering Deparment, and so, thanks to the Symmetriad's inflexible policies, remains an island of quality in the sea of affordability.
Due to high ejection rate, Symmetriad forced upon ALC its new line of low-g ejection seats. Low-g seats are important since even short-term subjection to an accelerations found on most seats - 12g to 14g - make ejection a very dangerous event. Injuries include broken joints, damaged spinal cords, and in some cases worse. The trend towards lower-g seats continues to this day; old seats used to be more traumatic.

Laertes IV is a zero-zero ejection seat, designed for pilot+gear weight of 20 to 150kg (being the only seat to date safe even for children), in addition to the seat's 100-kg ejected weight. Apart from improved ejection capabilities, it offers enhanced ergonomics - 5 degrees of freedom in adjustment, as opposed to 0 or 1 in most seats. Seat adjustment is electronically controlled to help the pilot cope with g-forces and prolonged flight.
[For more information on this system, see the main article (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=3169).]


When it comes to ejection, the acceleration of Laertes IV doesn't exceed 9g (unless deemed inavoidable, e.g. underwater ejection), which is achieved by throttled initial impulse - the propellant load is divided into multiple cartridges, and only a number of them is used, depending on pilot weight and current g-load. Following propulsion is provided by three guided hybrid-fuel rockets, their thrust and direction controlled by the seat's control unit to ensure vertical position, as monitored by the inertial navigation system.

Since the Symmetriad trusted the ALC ED Cost-Cutting Section as much as insurance agents, some additional features were added when the plans of F-5M were presented to them, scaring eight engineers and three analysts speechless for two days. As a result, a roll bar on top of the seat was added to prevent neck injuries should the canopy jettisoning fail (which it did on more than one occasion).
Further, recognizing that F-5M cheap avionics trusted with F-5M extreme manoeuvrability could easily black out the pilot into loss of consciousness, the seat includes a parachute allowing the seat land together with the pilot, and inflatable flotation modules. [Normally, the conscious pilot would still be separated so he can control the landing].

Apart from that, Laertes IV includes an independent flight monitoring system, connecting to both aircraft's avionics and dedicated Symmetriad altimeter, digital INS and GPS receiver. If the system predicts a 80%+ crash or otherwise destruction that can't be avoided by the avionics or the pilot, the seat ejects automatically with 1 second warning (when time is available) unless manually overridden. This means that even if the pilot is incapable of pulling the handle, the seat will save him if crash is expected.

Fitting these seats is worth $300,000, but both pilot's training and his life are considerably more valuable. Only in a year after Tigro El Cheapo was introduced, dozens of lives are considered to have been saved by the seat's specific capabilities.
And most importantly, if not for the Laertes IV seat, the Tigro's cheapness wouldn't outweigh its lack of reliability. With this seat, however, the plane doesn't endanger the pilot's life, while offering high performance for unprecedented low cost.


KEY SPECIFICATIONS

* Crew: 1 or 2
* Length:
** Single seat, jet fuelled: 11.2 m
** Twin seat, jet fuelled: 12.5 m
** Single seat, hydrogen fuelled: 15.0 m
** Twin seat, hydrogen fuelled: 16.0 m

* Wingspan: 8.0 m
* Height: 3.4 m
* Empty weight:
** Single seat, jet fuelled: 3,850 kg
** Twin seat, jet fuelled: 4,100 kg
** Single seat, hydrogen fuelled: 4,200 kg
** Twin seat, hydrogen fuelled: 4,400 kg
* Normal combat weight (in air superiority role):
** Jet fuelled: 7,050kg
** Hydrogen fuelled: 6,400kg
*** Achieved through lighter fuel, at same range.
* Maximum takeoff weight:
** Jet fuelled: 11,500kg
** Hydrogen fuelled: 12,800kg


* Fuel capacity:
** Jet fuel: 3,500 L or 2,700 kg internal, up to 3,000 L external
** Hydrogen: 15,500 L or 1,800 kg, internal only
*** Note: Using 90% hydrogen, 10% methane mixture

* Payload:
** Standard, in air superiority role: 800 kg
** Standard, in strike role: 2,400 kg
** Standard, in light bomber role: 3,200 kg
** Maximum, with jet fuel: 3,950 kg
** Maximum, with hydrogen: 6,000 kg

* Engine: ALC TF-72 low-bypass turbofan
** Thrust on jet fuel: 72.0 kN
** Thrust on hydrogen: 78.0 kN

* Service ceiling: 17,500 m
* Rate of climb:
** Jet fuelled: 190 m/s
** Hydrogen fuelled: 245 m/s
* Thrust to weight ratio, in air superiority role, combat:
** Jet fuelled: 1.02
** Hydrogen fuelled: 1.20

* Cruise speed: Mach 0.9 or 1050 km/h
* Supercruise speed: Mach 1.5 or 1,600 km/h
* Maximum speed: Mach 1.5 or 1,600 km/h
*** Note: The engine has no afterburner, so supercruises all the way.

* Ferry range:
** Jet fuelled: 6,500 km
** Hydrogen fuelled: 7,500 km
* Maximum combat range:
** Jet fuelled: 4,500 km
** Hydrogen fuelled: 5,500 km

* Combat radius, max payload:
** Jet fuelled: 600 km
** Hydrogen fuelled: 1,100 km
* Combat radius, strike:
** Jet fuelled: 1,000 km
** Hydrogen fuelled: 1,900 km
* Combat radius, interdiction:
** Jet fuelled: 2,100 km
** Hydrogen fuelled: 2,600 km



[B] - * - * - and now for something completely different - * - * -
The accountant-exciting section

Now, if you're an accountant, none of the above probably was of significance to you. What matters to you is another thing: How much will it cost? And the answer is simple: This product will make you happy.

Cost breakdown:
* Airframe material: fibreglass, 1600kg, $150/kg - $240,000
* Metal components: Al-Mg alloy, machined, welded, 160kg, $500/kg - $80,000
* Forming and construction: pressing, bolts, glue - $50,000
* Engine: turbofan, 70kN thrust - $700,000
* Control surfaces: 8 surfaces - $200,000
* Other mechanics: landing gear, pumps, valves - $200,000
* Avionics interface: $80,000
* Processors: 8x1U server, $25,000x8 - $200,000
* IRST system: $800,000
* Ejector seat: Laertes IV, minimal version - $300,000
* Other costs: $200,000

* R&D, over 1,000,000 aircraft:
** Airframe development - $20 billion
** Engine development - $30 billion
** Avionics development - $10 billion
** Software development - $100 billion
** Testing - $5 billion
** Post-design development - $15 billion
** Cost overruns - $5 billion
** Promotional distribution - $4 billion
** Writing the manual - $0
** Coming up with a creative name - $0
** Spanish translators - $0
** Idiots writing cost breakdowns - $0 [Hey, what? If I'm not paid for this, I'll... I will... I will account you to death!]
** Grandiose picnics for the development team - $10 billion
Subtotal $200 billion;
Per aircraft $200,000.

* Assembly work: 10 working days, 960 man-hours
** 1 engineer, 80 man-hours - $24,000
** 5 technicians, 400 man-hours - $80,000
** 1 supervisor, 80 man-hours - $12,000
** 1 welder, 80 man-hours - $12,000
** 2 workers, 160 man-hours - $20,000
** 2 assistants, 160 man-hours - $16,000
** Equipment rent, 3 weeks - $30,000
** Building rent, 3 weeks - $6,000
** Management waste, 20% - $40,000
** Overtime, leaves, union matters, 10% - $20,000
** Component and post-assembly testing - $20,000
** Overhead, 10% - $20,000
Subtotal $300,000.
Total $3,500,000.

Options:
* For 2-seater variant:
** Lengthened airframe - $50,000
** Second ejector seat - $300,000
** Second avionics interface - $80,000
** Additional mechanics - $20,000
** Other costs - $20,000
Subtotal $470,000.
* For LH2-fuelled version:
** Lengthened airframe - $50,000
** Cryogenic tank - $200,000
** Cryogenic pumps - $50,000
Subtotal $300,000.
* With Standard L4 ejector seats instead of Basic:
** Single-seater -$200,000
** Two-seater - $300,000

Additional export costs:
* Return on investment: ~10%
* Testing and shipping: $50,000



Total cost for export:

* Single-seater, standard jet fuel - $4,000,000

* Two-seater, standard jet fuel - $4,500,000

* Single-seater, hydrogen fuelled - $4,300,000
* Two-seater, hydrogen fuelled - $4,800,000

* Option, full-feature Laertes IV ejector seats (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556077):
** Single-seater: +$200,000
** Two-seater: +$300,000



The fighter is offered for sale to all nations (reserving the right for exceptions), through the Hub Limited Exports, or directly through this thread (OOC or IC both fit).
Soviet Spain
15-05-2008, 03:46
(I'm buying this to use against my own main nation LULZ)

Encryption level: 2048 bits RSA

TO: Aerospace Logistics
FROM: Presidente Carlos Cavallo - República Popular Española - Partido Comunista Español
SUBJECT: Purchase Request

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/soviet_spain__0.jpg

The People's Republic of Spain has sought for a long time a cost-effective replacement for its aging F-5 Tiger IIs light fighters. However, most fighters offered around, in these recent times, were particularly featured by the overprevalence of stealth technologies and steep maintenance costs. We are glad to have found the best choice of upgrade over our old F-5s into your modern but extremely cost-effective fighter. Thus we ask for the purchase of an initial batch of 50 single-seated, standard jet fuel F-5Ms with Laertes IV ejector seats for evaluation purposes in live training exercises. If our request is confirmed, we will immediately wire the $210 millions of the total cost of the purchase, although we would be more willing to make larger purchases if it is possible for a small discount to be offered over the final price.

Carlos Cavallo
Presidente de la República Popular Española
Vault 10
15-05-2008, 04:07
http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/ALC1.PNG
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: Presidente Carlos Cavallo - República Popular Española - Partido Comunista Español

Indeed, we expect this will be an optimal choice for you: while different in detail, the F-5M is still an evolution of F-5 in concept. Thus, your personnel will be able to quickly adapt to maintenance and control of this aircraft, and it won't require special facilities.

Considering larger purchases, our company normally offers discounts, but it's pretty difficult to reduce price on this one. However, we always can find a solution. If you plan on a force of 500 airframes or more, the fighters can be shipped in kit form, while you would manage the assembly (see cost breakdown section), which we presume you can do cheaper. Since the aircraft was designed to be easy to assemble, this shouldn't present any problems. We'll still have to send some specialists for training and oversight, but this will reduce cost of each unit by $250,000.

Please respond whether it would be a suitable variant, and what number would be required.


With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Vault 10
16-05-2008, 10:11
OOC: Complete specs added.
Yanitaria
17-05-2008, 05:25
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i156/UNDComrade/Yanitaria/OfficialCommunication-1.png

The United Royal Provinces of Yanitaria would like to purchase 2,000 two-seater standard fueled F-5Ms, with the Laertes IV ejection seats, for the total cost of $9,600,000,000. These planes will be called the AeLoJT-5M "Tigre" in Yanitarian service, and will be used as pilot trainers.
Vault 10
17-05-2008, 20:00
http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/ALC1.PNG
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: The United Royal Provinces of Yanitaria

Thank you for your purchase. We'll prepare 2,000 twin-seater fighters, fully tested and equipped with full-feature ejector seats, and transport them by air within a few days.


Looking forward to future relations,
With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Greal
17-05-2008, 23:21
http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff41/838millionman/Grealflag56.jpg?t=1211061821
Official Greal Statement
Ministry of Foreign Affairs

The Imperial Republic of Greal wishes to purchase 4,000 two-seater standard fueled F-5Ms with with the Laertes IV ejection seats for a total cost of $19,200,000,000. The planes will be used as trainers extensively around Greal.


Regards
Greal Military Procurement Division
Vault 10
18-05-2008, 00:36
http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/ALC1.PNG
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: The Imperial Republic of Greal
Military Procurement Division

The transfer will start in short time. Four thousand planes from the produced stock should be transferred within a week. If your airbases and training centers contact us (at 10-002-14 or https://ALC.VT/Sales/Greal), the aircraft will be delivered directly to them.


It has been a pleasure doing business with you.

With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Scandaria
18-05-2008, 00:54
TO: Aerospace Logistics
FROM: Chief William A. Moreland Chief of Foreign Affairs
SUBJECT: Purchase Request

The Nation of Scandaria would like to purchase 150 two-seater standard fueled F-5Ms for 675,000,000. These fighter Jets will be used partially for training and partially for operations.
Vault 10
18-05-2008, 01:35
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: Scandria, William A. Moreland, Chief of Foreign Affairs

Greetings, and welcome to the sales department of Aerospace Logistics! We're glad you made a good choice in the purchase.

Our airbases have this number of planes ready to transfer at the moment. As soon as the bases are ready and the payment is transferred, we'll transport to you 150 fully ready two-seater F-5M, with conventional fuel system.


Looking forward to further communication,
With best regards,
Anthony Stevens,
Aerospace Logistics Sales Department.
Scandaria
18-05-2008, 02:11
We can wire you the money as soon as you need it. Just tell us where.
Hisperians
18-05-2008, 03:31
The United States of Hisperians would like to buy 200 Tigro El Cheapo two seater Hydrogen fueled planes. Transaction will be sent on the aknowledgement of order.
Vault 10
18-05-2008, 03:47
http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/ALC1.PNG
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: The United States of Hisperians

Your order is acknowledged, and transfer will begin as soon as the specifics are clear.
The total cost will be $960,000,000 with basic version of ejection seats, or $1,020,000,000 equipped with full-featured Laertes IV pilot support and escape system.

With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.




Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: Scandria, William A. Moreland, Chief of Foreign Affairs
You can simply transfer the payment to the ALC Sales Department, current order #436. Account information enclosed.

...


With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Soviet Spain
18-05-2008, 06:53
Encryption level: 2048 bits RSA

TO: Aerospace Logistics
FROM: Presidente Carlos Cavallo - República Popular Española - Partido Comunista Español
SUBJECT: F-5M Approved by our evaluation tests, new request


http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/soviet_spain__0.jpg

We have been quite impressed to see how despite being as cost-effective, it provides a much more superior performance to the F-5 Tiger II than we initially expected, and seems even less maintenance-intensive than it. We have a sufficient quantity of fighters and AEW&C aircrafts to provide the needed situational update to the F-5M, and as the specialists agree, it is indeed an excellent, cost-efficient choice to have no radar rather than a virtually useless radar for modern combat in an light fighter, specially in an age marked by the overprevalence of stealth aircrafts. I would like to inform you that, as our primary worry is air superiority, we are dedicating a significant part of our reserve funds into this purchase. Thus, we would be very grateful to have an additional bonus to our acquisition. Some of our technicians believe that it is possible to defeat in most cases stealth technology by using the right combination of both passive and active radars, both static and airborne, and we would like to ask for a small favor, as we don't have stealth aircrafts to put a project like this to test nor we have any expertise with stealth technology. If you could send us aid to develop a new radar grid into our territory, as a safeguard to our own sovereignty, we would always remind Aerospace Logistics first whenever a new need to our military arises. Below is the exact listing of our request, considering a discount of $250,000 per unit due to the large purchase. We request all of them with Laertes IV ejection seats.

Carlos Cavallo
Presidente de la República Popular Española

ANNEX: Listing

Single-seater, standard jet fuel: 600 ($ 2.37 bi.)
Two-seater, standard jet fuel: 400 ($ 1.82 bi.)

Total purchase cost: $ 4.19 billions

To be wired once purchase approval is confirmed
Vault 10
18-05-2008, 11:38
http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/ALC1.PNG
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: Presidente Carlos Cavallo - República Popular Española - Partido Comunista Español

Your purchase is confirmed.
And yes, indeed, F-5M requires even less maintenance than F-5E: the number of metal joints to check is minimized, the new stronger airframe offers easy access to all components, and the non-afterburning engine is derived from the civil aviation, where low maintenance has always been vital. In addition, in our 45-year experience with F-5, we have highly refined the fuel and control systems, so the modernized components are simpler, more reliable, and have longer servicing intervals; plus all new systems have electronic self-testing to aid the ground crews. It does require a maintenance crew, but a large number of these airframes serves in our civilian flight schools as a training aircraft, without putting strain on their personnel, and its disarmed variant even is a popular choice for well-off private owners.


As far as radar system development is concerned, we are well familiar with counter-stealth warfare, and are ready to send out a number of specialists to aid you in the development of your system. Of course, we can't compromise the security of our deep-stealth special forces, but we will lend you now-standard stealth aircraft such as F-22, which we operate in a considerable number.
Our more general solution against high-stealth aircraft is, however, based on IR detection in conjunction with a synthetic aperture continuous array for the longest ranges. Some of this technology we can transfer, some not, but even the older of our solutions offer cost-efficient methods of reducing effect of enemy stealth. But this would rather be discussed between specialists.


With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.


[OOC: If you need OOC help, don't hesitate to ask, here or on the Draftroom.]
Hisperians
18-05-2008, 20:27
The transfer is in process. $1,020,000,000 is being sent to your sales Department.

http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn280/jdacheifs0/JackJohnson.jpg
Jack Johnson
Head of Logistics
2 Government Rd Hisperians D.G
Vault 10
18-05-2008, 22:29
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: The United States of Hisperians

We have received the transfer. 200 aircraft will be flown to you as soon as possible.
Thank you for your order.


Looking forward to future relations,
With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Fatahland
19-05-2008, 08:42
The Glorious People's Liberation Air Force of Fatahland requests 2,000 of these most excellent fighters in their most basic configuration.

We believe that there is no necessity to supply them with the Laertes IV ejector seats, as the pilots of the GPLAF are not likely to be bested in air combat by any mere capitalist imperialist pilot from such a benighted state as slave-owining Doomingsland , or redneck Allanea, or imperialist Questers, or jingoist Praetonia, or even isolationist Bretton. Should they in fact be shot down, then it would be better to them to die in glorious combat, as heroes of the Motherland, than to fall into slavery in the hands of the capitalist imperialists, who without doubt would torture them terribly to make them give the technological and industrial secrets of the Motherland.

As such, no ejector seats.
Vault 10
19-05-2008, 16:31
http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/ALC1.PNG
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: Glorious People's Liberation Air Force of Fatahland

We respect your bravery and dedication. Unfortunately, it's not in our traditions to sell aircraft without an ejector seat at all: extensive empirical research has shown the pilot's butt requires support in flight. All our experiments with using the military standard US Army M17A6 MIL-43307 ANSI YTM-752ND Mark 27 Larch Battle Stool have so far ended in the pilot's butt under high g-loads devastatingly crushing the M17A6 MIL-43307 ANSI YTM-752ND Mark 27 into between 6 and 22 M81A2 MIL-34811 Mark 3 Combat Larch Chips, which are even less comfortable to sit on.
It is known to us that some pilots in the GNAA and GNAVT are using the patented Garrison IT Alternate Support System, but we would advise against its use by straight pilots.

So, we would strip (more precisely, our secretaries would)... sorry, we'll have stripped - we'll have even the basic version seats stripped, and install old military surplus trainer seats, for no charge (as we'll save on utilization). As they are lighter, we can, equip each aircraft with the Glory Device, which would be highly approved by N.Gastello, was he to have one - all for no additional cost, out of respect.
The total order cost would be $750 million.


Best wishes,
Anastasia Maximova.
The Dienstad Cartel
19-05-2008, 22:41
Secret IC:

To Whom it may Concern Regarding the F-5M in the Aerospace Logistics Corporation:

The Cartel wishes to seriously enquire into whether or not this make of aircraft can be modified to be used on a small aircraft carrier. The Cartel is willing to pay large sums of money to fund any development into a carrier based version designed specifically for us.

We do not have the facilities within our organisation to modify the aircraft ourselves which is why we humbly ask your corporation to invest in creating a carrier based version even if it is solely for us. We wish only to purchase twenty aircraft of the single-seater, standard jet version.

If the conversion from land based to carrier based is successful then we will seriously consider your company for further investment in this aircraft... assuming of course a conversion to a carrier is possible.
Vault 10
19-05-2008, 23:45
http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/ALC1.PNG
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: The Dienstad Cartel

Certainly. These aircraft have extremely light frames, low drag and high lift, making them particularly suitable for naval role. Actually, they are able to take off from supercarriers even without catapults and modifications. With modifications, the planes are suited even for the smallest of carriers.

Additionally, now we in cooperation with Sumer (also known as Dostanout Loj, and famous for Nineveh International MCA-7 tank, the greatest competitor to Kriegzimmer's Nakil and Lince) are working on creating a joint F-5N/S version - a more advanced, though more expensive, dedicated naval fighter. This is a major event for the company, since the nation of Sumer very rarely purchases foreign equipment, making exceptions only for the most effective designs.

While it will be some time until F-5 Naval/Sumerian is released, and the sale will be more restricted due to joint nature of design, we can promise we'll do everything possible to ensure that every F-5M customer will be offered an opportunity to purchase F-5N/S when it is released.

For your current order, we'll ferry 20 planes as soon as $80 million is received.


With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.


P.S. Heh: http://www.nationstates.net/page=display_region/region=greater_dienstad
The Dienstad Cartel
20-05-2008, 08:25
To: Aerospace Logistics Corporation
RE:

The money will be wired to you as soon as you recieve this message. Thank you for you custom and the corporation thanks you again. We require these aircraft as quickly as possible thus we are wasting no time in delivering your payment. We hope the delivery of the aircraft will be just as swift.

Thank you.

OOC:

Your on the ball, I guess being regional delegate has its advantages. I took the guise in the last post as a corporation. In IC terms there shouldn't be a direct link between the Cartel and the corporation front. At least not at first glance. :D
Vault 10
21-05-2008, 20:39
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: The Dienstad Cartel

The planes have been ferried to you, and are arriving right now.

As for the naval version, we could either produce a simple navalization of F-5M, which would cost about a million more, or suggest the currently developed F-5N/S, which is planned to feature more advanced avionics (including AESA radar on some airframes), but cost 9 to 18 millions depending on variant.


Looking forward to future relations,
With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Vault 10
24-05-2008, 01:50
...So, without much ado, we would like to once again offer this aircraft to the public.

Conditions, costs and variants are negotiable.
Burtilana
09-06-2008, 01:53
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5080/bafol9.jpg
We would like to purchace 1000 twin seated, jet fuelled F-5M "Tigro El Cheapo" fighters please, the full amount of $4,500,000,000 shall be wired upon approval.

President Vladimir Burte
Vault 10
09-06-2008, 03:37
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: President Vladimir Burte

The order is approved. We'll ship the aircraft in a few batches within two weeks, starting from now.


With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Allanea
31-08-2008, 15:35
Official Message from Alexander Kazansky

I suddenly decided I want ten. Ship them to me.

OOC: Please get on MSN or Yahoo ASAP.
Vault 10
01-11-2008, 17:30
PRIVATE
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: Alexander Kazansky

Thanks for your purchase. We've shipped the planes.

WBR, A.S.
Allanea
02-11-2008, 09:06
Official Message of the CSS Military

Please send us 2,000 F5M aircraft, jet-fueled and equipped with Symmetriad Laertes seat. We will pay you ten billion dollars for them.
Vault 10
02-11-2008, 13:42
PRIVATE
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: Alexander Kazansky

Thank you. We'll start the shipments today. The full order should be transferred within a week.

Looking forward to future relations,
With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Anghele
02-11-2008, 14:57
M.A.C HEAVY INDUSTRIES


ANGHELE M.O.D CERTIFIED DEFENSE CONTRACTOR

I.S.O - 9001 Regulations Compliant Manufacturer | S.O.T II Tax Payer
NFTA - Class III/X Certified Dealer
NFR - Certified Firearms And Destructive Devices Manufacturer
IATA - Registered Small Arms And Explosives Importer / Exporter

We wish to purchase the following items:

x600-Single-Seater,Standard Jet Fuel F-5M Variant
Cost: ($2.37USD Billion)

x400-Two-Seater, Standard Jet Fuel F-5M Variant
Cost: ($1.82USD Billion)

All in Matte Black.Non-Reflective.

Total purchase cost: $ 4.19USD Billion

All Full Extras

Funds Shall Be Wired Upon Approval Of Order.

10 Aircraft Of Each Variant Will Be Used By M.A.C Private Security To Guard Our Facilities. The Remaining Aircraft Will Be Incorporated In Anghele Air Force Training Division.

For any inquiries please contact us:

Link To Storefront: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=570831

M.A.C Direct Line: 21-456-3450

M.A.C@DefenseNet.Agle

Thank you,

M.A.C Heavy Industries Defense Management.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vault 10
02-11-2008, 15:18
http://www.freewebs.com/vault_10/ALC1.PNG
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: M.A.C Heavy Industries Defense Management

The order is approved. As our facilities are currently busy producing and preparing aircraft for Allanea, only 100 can be shipped today, and the shipment of the rest will start 6 days from now, to be completed within 24 days. All aircraft will be assembled up to the specifications and painted in Matte Black IR-suppressive paint.

( If the speed of delivery is a concern, we can withdraw aircraft in perfect condition with under 1 month of service from the operating units, but I presume this is not the case. )

With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.



P.S. Of course, the delay is IC, not OOC.
Anghele
02-11-2008, 15:37
M.A.C HEAVY INDUSTRIES


ANGHELE M.O.D CERTIFIED DEFENSE CONTRACTOR

I.S.O - 9001 Regulations Compliant Manufacturer | S.O.T II Tax Payer
NFTA - Class III/X Certified Dealer
NFR - Certified Firearms And Destructive Devices Manufacturer
IATA - Registered Small Arms And Explosives Importer / Exporter

We wish to purchase the following items:

x2.600-Single-Seater,Standard Jet Fuel F-5M Variant

x2.400-Two-Seater, Standard Jet Fuel F-5M Variant

All In Light Aircraft Carrier Grey.

Full Extras
--------------------------------------------------

x5.000-Single-Seater,hydrogen fuelled F-5M Variant

x7.000-Two-Seater,Hydrogen Fuelled F-5M Variant

All In Dark Gun-Metal Grey

Full Extras

Funds Shall Be Wired Upon Approval Of Order.

10 Aircraft Of Each Variant Will Be Used By M.A.C Private Security To Guard Our Facilities. The Remaining Aircraft Will Be Incorporated In Anghele Air Force Training Division.

For any inquiries please contact us:

Link To Storefront: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=570831

M.A.C Direct Line: 21-456-3450

M.A.C@DefenseNet.Agle

Thank you,

M.A.C Heavy Industries Defense Management.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vault 10
02-11-2008, 16:51
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: M.A.C Heavy Industries Defense Management

Greetings again. Your order is approved.

The cost, Symmetriad Laertes IV (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556077) ejector seats included, will be:
x2.600-Single-Seater,Standard Jet Fuel - $10,920M
x2.400-Two-Seater, Standard Jet Fuel - $11,520M
x5.000-Single-Seater, Hydrogen Fueled - $22,500M
x7.000-Two-Seater,Hydrogen Fueled - $35,000M
Total - $79,940,000,000

All jet-fueled aircraft will be prepared for aircraft carrier service, with shock-absorbing landing gear, and painted with light gray seawater-resistant masking paint.
The hydrogen-fueled equipment will have regular rough runway landing gear, and be painted gunmetal dark gray. Additionally, we'll transfer all necessary plans for refueling equipment.


With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.
Anghele
02-11-2008, 20:53
Aerospace Logistics Corporation
To: M.A.C Heavy Industries Defense Management

Greetings again. Your order is approved.

The cost, Symmetriad Laertes IV (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=556077) ejector seats included, will be:
x2.600-Single-Seater,Standard Jet Fuel - $10,920M
x2.400-Two-Seater, Standard Jet Fuel - $11,520M
x5.000-Single-Seater, Hydrogen Fueled - $22,500M
x7.000-Two-Seater,Hydrogen Fueled - $35,000M
Total - $79,940,000,000

All jet-fueled aircraft will be prepared for aircraft carrier service, with shock-absorbing landing gear, and painted with light gray seawater-resistant masking paint.
The hydrogen-fueled equipment will have regular rough runway landing gear, and be painted gunmetal dark gray. Additionally, we'll transfer all necessary plans for refueling equipment.


With best regards,
Anthony Stevens.

M.A.C HEAVY INDUSTRIES


ANGHELE M.O.D CERTIFIED DEFENSE CONTRACTOR

I.S.O - 9001 Regulations Compliant Manufacturer | S.O.T II Tax Payer
NFTA - Class III/X Certified Dealer
NFR - Certified Firearms And Destructive Devices Manufacturer
IATA - Registered Small Arms And Explosives Importer / Exporter


Funds Have Been Wired.


For any inquiries please contact us:

Link To Storefront: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=570831

M.A.C Direct Line: 21-456-3450

M.A.C@DefenseNet.Agle

Thank you,

M.A.C Heavy Industries Defense Management.
Allanea
23-11-2008, 20:00
Official Confederate Order Form

We in the Confederacy require a boost in the size of our Air Force. A lot of it will be created by boosting the amount of F4M aircraft in service. In practice, we require 5,000 additional F-4Ms, equipped with the Symmetriad Laertes IV Ejector seats. As we also need to boost the economy of V10, we will pay 30 billion dollars for these craft. This time, we would wish the aircraft to be hydrogen-fueled.
Vault 10
20-12-2008, 19:01
OOC:
Per discussion over IM, approved.
Allanea
28-01-2009, 16:06
Official Message from the Allanean Government:

We require 10,000 F4M Tigro El Cheapo aircraft, equipped with hydrogen engines and Laertes IV ejector seats. We will pay the full price of 45 billion dollars for them.
Hurtful Thoughts
21-02-2009, 00:03
We would like to purchase 500 2-seat multi-fuel capable F-5Ms and support-staff/facilities for the TF-70 turbofan for a total of $2.5 Billion.

Pilot Lt. Willie Deckard and WSO/Co-Pilot/wingman 2nd Lt. Rick Armstrong after seing the sleek and agile F-20s, couldn't wait to take it through their paces, and were somewhat astounded when another pilot [Cpt. Winters] showed up and almost proclaimed them to be as agile as a flying brick.

They wasted no time in preparing to take to the air in their own personal 'supersnic go carts of the sky'.(((OOC:Ahaha, i love that. But what are your guys normally flying?)))Modded F-4 Phantom IIs (maybe unmodded Su-34s+Su-30s in land-attack and resserve units), and they initially did quite well compared to an [NS] advanced fighter such as the F/A-103
Vault 10
09-03-2009, 16:31
Allanea: Additional order approved.

Hurtful Thoughts: Approved. As for DPR, see the offer in the telegram.
The Grand World Order
06-05-2009, 06:02
((OOC: The first form works best when piloted by Asians...

roflcopter goes soi soi soi.))
Techno-Soviet
06-05-2009, 06:10
OOC: lulz