NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: Greetings.

Essentially, I'm looking to start off the history of my NS country with its rebellion against a colonial power that initially colonised it, and was wondering if anyone would like to volunteer for this. :)

As a brief introduction; Panannon is supposed to be situated on an identical copy of continental North America, situated in the geographical position of Virginia. I intend for the country to be socialist/communist in nature (the exact type of socialism/communism likely varying throughout its history), and after independence I intend to repeat the expansion of the United States across the continent as the population grows. Later on in the life of my country, I am planning to open up certain sections of the continent to colonisation by other NSers to make things more interesting.

Is anyone interested in this? The initial rebellion will probably consist of two-to-three initial RPs that will set the general mood, the main characters and the eventual build-up to revolution in the colony - through armed or peaceful means will depend on the way things go. This means that the colonial power has to be somewhat cruel towards this particular colony to forment such revolutionary thought, and also means that the colonial power would have an interest in investing time and money into holding onto this colony - after all, a foothold on a mineral-rich and expansive continent as yet uncolonised by other powers is something I imagine would be particularly valuable.

Please let me know.

My country does a bit of colonizing, so I can volunteer as the colonial power. One question though. Would this occur in the present or in the past?

i would like to be the colonel power.

Being that we are colonial ourselves, we would be willing to be the aid/ally of either you or the colonial power; depending on if such an entity would be desired and whichever you deem would be more appropriate in this matter (think France during the Revolutionary War, but either on America or Britain's side, depending).

Also, I echo the question of whether this is a past or modern RP.

My nation is geographically located on the Northwest Coast of
The USA and Canada,
we'd be happy to have colonized you !

If this is MT then i'll be willing to RP a neighbour, semi neutral at first but inclined to attack anyone if theres something in it for me......

When it comes to brutal economic exploitation, I'd say we are likely to be involved. Especially considering Vetalianization basically involves completely shattering any existing culture and replacing it with our own, with particular emphasis on economic control.

I'm a white African nation, pick me! It would play alot into my nations history.

I'm a white African nation, pick me! It would play alot into my nations history.

Wait, you're also a white African nation? Good God...

If you choose Blackhelm as your colonial overlord, I would be willing to assist your rebel forces similar to how the French aided the Americans (but maybe less openly) during the revolution. West Corinthia doesn't support communism, but as a former GASN nation we are anti-Blackhelm ICly.

If you choose Vetalia as your nation's master, I'd be willing to get involved; after all, I am a sovereign protectorate of his. In fact, I would basically be the Canada to your American Thirteen Colonies. In addition, I'd be mostly neutral, slightly Vetalian leaning, but my corporations will actively defend their investments, from blockade, attack, etc. (Hint: Give me captured Vetalian investments)

The Vantanian Empire (which, if this takes place in the past, should still exist) will definitely be a good semi-neutral power in this regard, especially if both me and Blackhelm are involved in one way or another (and given our history, that's not entirely implausible...we often handle the financial and banking side while Griffincrest is involved in natural resources). In addition, things are undoubtedly tense between the various companies involved, making it even more unstable.

Either way, I want our citizens fleeing the country and the entire colonial regime going down. Plus, I'd like to see more countries with a visible Vetalian cultural mark to them stemming from our previous presence.

ok i have an idea. We can all have a peace of the place. (share it basically.)

^^^^^ No. Just, no.

I would colonise you, but I'm already communist, so a communist breaking away from a communist in order to become communist would seem a bit odd.

Wait, you're also a white African nation? Good God...

Vet your African??? I thought you were Russian!

Vet your African??? I thought you were Russian!

Basically, we're the descendants of Russian colonies in the region a long time ago, with a big cultural split in the ancient past that over the centuries turned us in to the greedy, materialistic people of today. Vetalian Russian is also its own dialect; mutually intelligible and all that, but definitely very distinct and recognizable among other Russian nations.

Firstly, thankyou for the replies, I am glad there has been so much interest.

In light of the offers made, I would be most interested in becoming a breakaway colony of the Vetalia and his Vantanian Empire. The notion of putting this somewhat in the past has interested me as an idea, and I am intrigued at the notion of beginning my RP career on these forums by actually starting my nation's history right from the start. Perhaps, just as an example, we could RP the initial rebellion around the technology and history level of the 1920s? The revolution in Russia would be causing a stir for left-wing groups of the time, and against this revolutionary backdrop seems a good time for oppressed citizens of Panannon to be thinking about their own futures.

For those others interested in joining in on either side of this particular story arc once the actual rebellion gets going, you are completely welcome. It would be quite satisfying for me to have these events feature into the long-term history of other player's nations and characters, as I will likely play a few Past-Tech RPs at various stages in my countries expansion in territory across my version of the American continent before bring myself up to the present day Modern-Tech setting.

Vetalia, what do you think about this idea? Does the time setting fit with your nation's history? Perhaps you could give me (or link me to) some general information on your nation as it would be at this time, and suggest any improvements to this idea? I in turn will begin putting together some ideas for my oppressed peoples - probably something along the lines of an ethnic group similar to the Native Americans who have been enslaved as part of the colony and then fight back.

Thankyou for your interest.

1920's would be perfect, honestly. This rebellion would be a good way to put events in to motion that eventually result in our own revolution against the Imperial government in the 1950's. I've been looking for a good event to fill in this part of my history, so this works quite well.

I'll attempt to give you a brief idea of what's going on in 1920's Vetalia:

Our country was a semi-constitutional empire with a powerful Emperor, which meant he was able to generally rule outside of the power of the Vetalian Senate and the Praetor, who at the time was similar to a Prime Minister (after the revolution, that position became equivalent to president). However, his power was not unlimited and so there were a number of controls on his power, both legally and effectively in the form of the Vetalian aristocracy.

Just like today, our people were very wealthy (and avaricious), but there was far greater income inequality that enabled a fairly small number of people to wield huge control over economic and political decisionmaking. Socialist and othre left-wing causes were becoming more popular among the working classes, and the government was trying hard to control those sentiments while preserving the interests of the wealthy.

Vetalia did have colonies at the time, although with the exception of your territory were generally in Africa and a few small naval outposts around the world. The territories in the Americas were important both due to their abundant natural resources and cheap labor but also as a trading hub for the entire hemisphere. Unlike the African colonies, which had a higher status due to their historical and cultural ties to Vetalia, the Americas are lower and are treated more like a gold mine for the government than an extension of Vetalia.

As a result, economic exploitation, slavery, apartheid-like policies and other forms of colonial oppression were all permitted and in fact encouraged, not the least due to the sympathy of your people to left-wing causes. By the 1920's, there were around 100,000 of our citizens (including soldiers) in your territory administering the various facets of the colonial economy.

Sounds interesting guys, whens the shooting match start? :sniper:

:D

1920's would be perfect, honestly. This rebellion would be a good way to put events in to motion that eventually result in our own revolution against the Imperial government in the 1950's. I've been looking for a good event to fill in this part of my history, so this works quite well.

I'll attempt to give you a brief idea of what's going on in 1920's Vetalia:

Our country was a semi-constitutional empire with a powerful Emperor, which meant he was able to generally rule outside of the power of the Vetalian Senate and the Praetor, who at the time was similar to a Prime Minister (after the revolution, that position became equivalent to president). However, his power was not unlimited and so there were a number of controls on his power, both legally and effectively in the form of the Vetalian aristocracy.

Just like today, our people were very wealthy (and avaricious), but there was far greater income inequality that enabled a fairly small number of people to wield huge control over economic and political decisionmaking. Socialist and othre left-wing causes were becoming more popular among the working classes, and the government was trying hard to control those sentiments while preserving the interests of the wealthy.

Vetalia did have colonies at the time, although with the exception of your territory were generally in Africa and a few small naval outposts around the world. The territories in the Americas were important both due to their abundant natural resources and cheap labor but also as a trading hub for the entire hemisphere. Unlike the African colonies, which had a higher status due to their historical and cultural ties to Vetalia, the Americas are lower and are treated more like a gold mine for the government than an extension of Vetalia.

As a result, economic exploitation, slavery, apartheid-like policies and other forms of colonial oppression were all permitted and in fact encouraged, not the least due to the sympathy of your people to left-wing causes. By the 1920's, there were around 100,000 of our citizens (including soldiers) in your territory administering the various facets of the colonial economy.

This sounds particularly excellent, thankyou for your interest in the matter. :) The idea that I had been formulating in my head was RPing Panannon as a Native American tribe, and given the Virginia territorial setting I am intending to use as a base for my nation, I have decided that the Panannon state will be a variation on the Powhatan tribe-nation that controlled that area before colonisation. The Vetalian colony would, like the English in Virginia, have simply taken over the territory, but instead simply enslaved the majority of the Panannon tribe for use in mining efforts in the colony, giving me a population base upon which to begin.

A few questions;

What kind of population base would you recommend I start off with at this time? Does it seem feasible that the 100,000 Vetalian colonists would have been able to continue control five million Panannon's following their initial enslavement? I assume this would be possible, for example with the white-minority governments in the African colonies of many empires of the 18th century.

How highly educated and involved in local administration would be at least a minority of the Panannon population? This is to determine some of the background behind a few characters I intend to have at the centre of the revolution.

What level of rights, such as freedom of assembly and speech would be allowed within the native population? I assume a low level, but I would like to check.

I imagine the first RP arc would be based around the beginnings of an organised resistance and setting the development of several characters crucial to my nation's history, and indeed a possibility of you doing the same for this part of your NS historical development. Likely thefore the second RP would begin with the actual civil unrest in the colony, and then blow over into a full-scale revolution. The good thing about PT roleplays is that we don't have any current constraints on either nation as it is deemed to already have happened, so I hope you don't mind me stretching this particular section of history over two RPs.

As for my country's political system, I am interested in developing a form of ethnic nationalist and libertarian socialist ideals that would seem to suit a colony largely comprised of one major oppressed ethnic group (although in reality the Powhatan nation was made up of around 30 tribes, they were to some degree of a shared Algonquian background) that has many cultural and social roots based upon shared ownership and control.

I hope this continues to interest you.

I'll keep an eye on this and I'd be glad to join if you want another player on either side. 1920s would be interesting because I've never been able to RP my country since it became a monarchy.

In the 1920s West Corinthia was the Democratic Peoples of Corinthia (before the schism between east and west). It was a weak democratic nation struggling against the growing influence of the Soviet Union (it eventually fell under Soviet control but never embraced communism). The country was just beginning to industrialize and urbanize. The government was weak and corrupt and civil war was common between rival political parties. Due to a long economic depression, the government often loaned out the army for mercenary work in other countries.

Given the state of my country during this time, actual military involvement would be difficult. Corinthian soldiers would probably best be used as mercenaries by the Vetalians in the same manner that the British used Hessian mercenaries.

West Corinthia did not become a military and economic power until after it became a monarchy in the 1970s.

Can I still be involved? 1920's were a strange time in my nation, I need some history in there.

Can I still be involved? 1920's were a strange time in my nation, I need some history in there.

I'd certainly be interested in your participation at some point in these two RPs, although I'd like to obviously keep participants to a minimum in order to avoid a dogpile at the start of my RP career. What did you have in mind?

I'll keep an eye on this and I'd be glad to join if you want another player on either side. 1920s would be interesting because I've never been able to RP my country since it became a monarchy.

I'd certainly be interested in your participation on any particular side, although I think I'm going to keep participants down to myself, Vetalia, you and Blackhelm for this right now. As I said, the first RP is likely to be mostly character development, with the odd cruel event by colonising forces to assist in the plot advancement to the revolution, which will likely take place in the second RP.

OOC: Bump for Vetalia's notice.

We've always been a rabble rouser with a history of supplying arms to nations against the will of others. We are also a colonial power with two colonial holdings still; one which is was conquered in our early years and one which was a rogue province that broke away then needed protection as it had no armed force to defend against Talematros (god, am I still in a cold war with them?)...

We can be a third party supplier. :)

I am very interested in this. The 1920's is an interesting time... I will be against your naton, if you allow me inside this RP. (TIS is very anti-communist, even when it just started)

In the 1920's, I didn't really exist. The "nation" of Vantanas was a tribal confederacy that had just experienced major culture shock, as Nova Brittanica annexed it as a base for destroying German possessions in the Pacific, during the Great War.

The Democratic Republic of Nova Brittanica, however, was a major power. Having just schizmed from the United Kingdom, they stood on their own as an Atlantic power, half-way between Canada/US and the UK. With an influx of new Pacific power, and a strong economic base, with an influx of new trade from the UK, Canada, Africa, France, Japan, China, and the US. As such, though NB was smaller at the time, we'd be at the same general power status as Vetalia.

With Vetalian power waning, greedy imperialists would love to seize the chance to expand on their empire. Ultimately, they wouldn't, but NB would be France to your America, and try to assimilate you, also unsuccessfully.

OOC: Bump. Post tomorrow regarding organisation. Thankyou for you interest.

The Empire of Max Beagle would like to help the rebels, be it with munitions, or actual soldiers.

This sounds particularly excellent, thankyou for your interest in the matter. The idea that I had been formulating in my head was RPing Panannon as a Native American tribe, and given the Virginia territorial setting I am intending to use as a base for my nation, I have decided that the Panannon state will be a variation on the Powhatan tribe-nation that controlled that area before colonisation. The Vetalian colony would, like the English in Virginia, have simply taken over the territory, but instead simply enslaved the majority of the Panannon tribe for use in mining efforts in the colony, giving me a population base upon which to begin.

Oh, yeah, we would definitely do that. Your population would not be really affected by our colonization in the sense of any attempts to systematically eliminate it; there might be losses due to disease and slavery, but we would be interested in preserving our human resources rather than destroy them. Generally, it would be best to assume there has been a significant Vetalian presence for a long enough period for you to build up the population, middle class, and intelligentsia to successfully rebel.

In addition, if it's the 1920's, there would be pretty significant infrastructure investment. The actual economic state of the colony would be akin to British India, with a fairly developed infrastructure that we would use to both produce revenue and resources and to control our colonial possessions. It would also give you an economic base for after the revolution.

A few questions;

What kind of population base would you recommend I start off with at this time? Does it seem feasible that the 100,000 Vetalian colonists would have been able to continue control five million Panannon's following their initial enslavement? I assume this would be possible, for example with the white-minority governments in the African colonies of many empires of the 18th century.

That would be more than possible, especially when compounded by the presence of foreign/loyalists within the territory. If anything, you might need a higher population for this RP to better balance our our forces. My suggestion would be to use the population level that coincides with the start of the RP, since we're definitely going to send in reinforcements if the situation starts to get out of control and you'll need the additional manpower to keep up the fight.

How highly educated and involved in local administration would be at least a minority of the Panannon population? This is to determine some of the background behind a few characters I intend to have at the centre of the revolution.

Since the entire population would not be enslaved (manumission and service in the Colonial Army are the main means to emancipation as well as birth in Vetalia or the descendants of freed slaves), there would be a fairly significant number of free Panannon citizens in the colony. By the 1920's, this would likely be a supermajority of the population, with maybe 15% at most still held in servitude. Enough to still be a colossal social injustice, but not so much that your citizens are unable to fight back. Basically, the remaining 85% would still be "enslaved" in the sense that they are colonial subjects, generally barred from further progress by the government's racial and ethnic prejudices.

There would be a small native elite of educated citizens who would aid the Vetalian colonial administration in governing the territory, although since they would have been educated in local, Vetalian-run schools and in Vetalian universities, they might not be as in touch with the rest of their citizens and some might even be torn between their comfortable status quo and the clear economic repression of their fellow people.

What level of rights, such as freedom of assembly and speech would be allowed within the native population? I assume a low level, but I would like to check.

Basically, any kind of public demonstration would be outlawed and subverted pretty quickly. However, since it's also the 1920's, Vetalian control over these things would have waned considerably compared to early in the colony's history.

It would vary depending on social status; slaves would have the most scrutiny while the free classes would have progressively less. Panannon citizens of Vetalia would have the same rights as any Vetalian, but they would also be far more Vetalianized and much less likely to support rebellion as a result.

I imagine the first RP arc would be based around the beginnings of an organised resistance and setting the development of several characters crucial to my nation's history, and indeed a possibility of you doing the same for this part of your NS historical development. Likely thefore the second RP would begin with the actual civil unrest in the colony, and then blow over into a full-scale revolution. The good thing about PT roleplays is that we don't have any current constraints on either nation as it is deemed to already have happened, so I hope you don't mind me stretching this particular section of history over two RPs.

As for my country's political system, I am interested in developing a form of ethnic nationalist and libertarian socialist ideals that would seem to suit a colony largely comprised of one major oppressed ethnic group (although in reality the Powhatan nation was made up of around 30 tribes, they were to some degree of a shared Algonquian background) that has many cultural and social roots based upon shared ownership and control..

Since Vetalian colonial policies are aimed at cultural and economic control, an ethnic nationalist movement would be most effective due to the clear presence of and attempts by our country to eliminate your native culture and replace it with our own (sort of like the missionary system in the Americas, but in this case generally secular).

There would be a lot of pent up anger at our successful suppression of your cultural institutions that could be focused in to such a movement.

Given the state of my country during this time, actual military involvement would be difficult. Corinthian soldiers would probably best be used as mercenaries by the Vetalians in the same manner that the British used Hessian mercenaries.

West Corinthia did not become a military and economic power until after it became a monarchy in the 1970s.

We would definitely use mercenaries in addition to Colonial Army Panannon forces and Vetalian troops. Especially as a gendarmerie to aid the military and civil police forces in keeping things under control.

Also, since the Vetalian government is becoming increasingly corrupt and decadent, there will be a lot of room for foreign countries to bribe and pay off officials as well as a lot of excess and extravagance paid for by the enslavement of the native people.

Of course, there will also be many good people involved in the administration; the difficulty will be distinguishing them and preventing the revolution from consuming innocents in the process. This will obviously be a very character-heavy RP in order to really show this war and how it affected our country in the ensuing decades.

Alright, last post of this series. The flag/emblem of Vetalia at the time:

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/vetalia__1.jpg

For fear of spoiling a future RP, this is technically the flag and emblem of the Vetalian Democratic Republic, but other than the addition of text on the banner is identical to the banner of House Kosyachenko, the ruling family of the country at this time. This is of course a bit of foreshadowing...the Kosyachenkos have appeared more than a few times in our history, to say the least, and they are quite prominent in this period as well. Basically, they are the "villains" of Vetalia although their rapacious greed and dedication makes them heroes in the eyes of the country's imperial loyalists and many others...in fact, roughly 110 years after this RP, the Kosyachenkos would briefly reestablish the Empire.

The 19th century Vetalian rulers would have been the major shaping influence on your colony, but the current government will consist of the weak and corrupt Vadim Merov and his successor Roman Kosyachenko.

Bump.

Excellent, this all seems to be coming together quite successfully, and Vetalia has provided some very helpful answers to my questions.

As to those who will be participating in this RP aside from Vetalia and myself, I have decided upon the following:

Vanteland
West Corinthia
Blackhelm

For those others who have expressed interesting in participating, I thank them. However, for my first RP, and given this particular RP's character-heavy design, I am interested in keeping the number of participants to a minority at this time.

I will create and post an OP by the end of the night. Revision for an exam beckons firstly however. From now on, we will use this thread as an OOC thread to point out and discuss any issues that may arise.

I look forward to writing with my fellow participants.