NationStates Jolt Archive

Transcript from GLBT Relations Minister Heidi Moneif broadcasts on all national and local television channels at 6:30 PM Standard Time:


For the last fifty years Athenae Magnus's GLBT population has grown from 10% to 30% (in most major cities the population ranges from 40-58%) due to its historic gay-friendly policies and liberal culture. As of today nearly 5.4 million of our 18 million population is naturally homosexual or living an alternative lifestyle. Much of this change has been the mass emigration of homosexuals from oppressive nations to our own, Socialist, pro-gay nation.

The election, last year, of our own Homosexual President; the honorable Angelo De Orvaa, has seen an even greater emigration of homosexuals into our great nation.

With his help and with sympathetic votes from our legislators we've seen the tax code revised to see homosexual couple benefits equal to those of heterosexual benefits, full adoption rights awarded for homosexuals living in all states and regional provinces, government-funded sex-change operations and hormone therapy for trans individuals, and the government funding-backed promise to help all oppressed homosexuals living in all nations emigrate from their home nation to this one (including passports, airfare, and obtaining a job and housing).

So far, nearly 200,000 refugees have flooded into this country and an additional million are expected to arrive yearly by 2010. In a nation as small as ours, this has had the effect of permanently altering the nation's demographics; with more extreme changes to occur as years pass.

In 2012 the government's sociological experts, census takers, and medical professionals expect the biological homosexual population to exceed 50% of the population by August of that year.

In earlier times this would seem to be a dangerous demographic shift, which could strain resources as a group that cannot have children grows old and needs others to take care of them; however, the nation of Athenae Magnus is planning to not only solve this problem but perpetuate the change.

Starting next month the government is initiating an artificial insemination project and promotion that will allow Lesbian couples to obtain children within a week of requesting.

Secondly, there will be payments of up to 1,000 dollars for any woman who wishes to have a child for a homosexual male couple.


The President, culture minister, the sociological minister, the minister for public health, and myself, the GLBT minister have also persuaded the legislators of the Communal congress to enact a law deemed controversial by many, but necessary by the GLBT community.

In 2005 several nations around the world have used advances in medicine to try and wipe out the homosexual populations in their countries. They have used technology that can identify homosexual children, fetuses, and adults and use biochemical medicine to permanently alter the sexuality of fetuses in the womb, while executing, imprisoning, or exiling born homosexuals (as the technology cannot be used to alter a person's sexuality after birth).

We have proposed, and won, the right of homosexual parents to use this technology to alter their child's sexuality to that of homosexual.

For too long homosexuals have had to deal with the pain of being born into families that are not like them; or worse, families that reject them.

All other minority groups are born into families like them:

Blacks are born into Black homes, Whites are born to Whites, Asians are born to Asians, Indigenous children are born into Indigenous homes.

Homosexuals are the only naturally-born group that are born to parents that are not like them.


This pain, coupled with the pain of being oppressed and massacred by certain nations and groups have called for an extreme response.

If things continue without the methods we are resulting to in Athenae Magnus, if this technology is used throughout the world by families who do not desire homosexual children; Homosexuals could be wiped out by the year 2050.

We cannot allow this Genocide to occur; we must make Athenae Magnus a refuge; we must make Athenae Magnus the first Gay nation in the history of the world!


[End transcript]

Memo from the office of Theocrat Charier of the Theocracy of Fluidism Viriline to the leadership of Athenae Magnus:

We have become alarmed by your pro-gay fanaticism. While we never harm homosexuals, they are simply not an open part of our culture, and we are sure that many people in your nation feel the same way, if secretly.

We also fear for the safety and well-being of those in your nation who would remain resolutely straight if these new laws are carried out which will make your whole nation gay.

We therefore have a solution. Our religion involves the flow of things throughout all people. This leads us to the necessity of the theocrat having many wives so he can have many children and pass his blood and inherent power around.

At the moment we are collecting up to 5000 wives for him for this purpose.
See the first post in the following thread for details.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=552885

The theocrat currently has a total of 515 wives. He needs more to hit the maximum.

We therefore have a plan to make both nations happy. We will allow every single homosexual person in our nation (a handful, but there may be more than we expected) to come to your nation. In return, we would like for you to grant sanctuary for the remaining heterosexual women in your nation by sending those who fit the requirements and understand the duties mentioned in the above thread to be wives of the theocrat. We are willing to take up to 1000 women for that job, and we may allow ordinary immigration for some of the rest.

Please respond to this memo either in this thread, the thread whose link is provided, or better yet, both.

Best wishes,
Fluidism Viriline

The SSFZ is proud to see another Socialist nation involved in securing the rights of the LGBT community. The SSFZ itself has a estimated LGBT community of up to 30 million, and Grand Commissar Cole, leader of the Zintharian Worker's Party and first Marshal of the then USSZ, is bisexual.

Once again, the SSFZ commends your nation's great actions and reminds you that the SSFZ is here to aid you in any way.

Message from the Imperial government of West Corinthia

We, too, are alarmed by your pro-gay fanaticism. It is impossible for us to see how you can maintain a sustainable population with a majority homosexual populace. For the time being, we have issued a travel restriction against your country. No Corinthian citizens may travel to Athenae Magnus,and anyone attempting to enter West Corinthia who has come from Athenae Magnus or has visited Athenae Magnus will be given an extensive background check and will be observed for up to one month before being granted entry to West Corinthia or deported. Corinthian exiles are also blocked from traveling to Athenae Magnus, though some are homosexual, and they will instead be routed to the Corinthian prison colony on Tol Numenor.

End transmission.

Breeders and Women Official Declaration:

Echoing the sentiment expressed by Fluidism Viriline and West Corinthia, we are alarmed by this insane fanaticism. However, we also find great sense in the deal offered by Fluidism Viriline, and urge the government of Athenae Magnus to act on it. We intend to start sending homosexuals to your nation immediately. We also intend to obtain this early detection technology that you complain about.

As the ruler of a nation where only less than 3% of the populous are homosexual (that is to say, less than 3% are openly homosexual) I must praise the actions Athenae magnus for coming forward and instead of labelling Homosexuality a crime (either via law or against nature) openly embracing it and putting in place systems to safegaurd the future of their populous and even offering incentives.

To the other nations openly bashing this very brave move, we are pleased to see that no militaristic threat has been made but be warned, should any be suggested, the current (if depleted and slightly outdated) Exetonian military will be placed on immediate standby and forces shall be sent to Athane Magnus to help protect the nations rights to rule as it sees fit.

Dominion Communications

While the Amazonian Dominion has no right proclaiming what your sovereign nation can or can not do, this situation will be monitored closely. As your population slowly declines and hits a negative growth factor - an output of having a primarily non-reproducing population - we can only figure that heterosexuals still living in your nation will be opressed and possibly even enslaved as breeding vectors to keep your nation viable. At the first sign of any sort of oppression against open heterosexuals, action will be taken.

Consider your future with thought.

-Dominion Foreign Affairs

Dominion Communications

While the Amazonian Dominion has no right proclaiming what your sovereign nation can or can not do, this situation will be monitored closely. As your population slowly declines and hits a negative growth factor - an output of having a primarily non-reproducing population - we can only figure that heterosexuals still living in your nation will be opressed and possibly even enslaved as breeding vectors to keep your nation viable. At the first sign of any sort of oppression against open heterosexuals, action will be taken.

Consider your future with thought.

-Dominion Foreign Affairs

Far be it for the proud Socialist State of Exetonia to be wanting to get on anybodys backs, at present i can see no evidence that would lead you to come to your conclusive hypothesis. Surely a nation with a rich history such as yours would be able to urr on the side of caution when threatning nations with military action should something happen.

Ok should the slave situation arise by 2012 or even before, i could assure you that the Exetonian Government and people would be appauled but we would also fight on the behalf of that nation to defend its rights to rule as it wishes (whilst of course using our peace keeping presence there to sequest as many slaves to freedom as possible)

[ooc: private communique to Amazonian Dominion]

OOC lol another nation with no post count or join date

Far be it for the proud Socialist State of Exetonia to be wanting to get on anybodys backs, at present i can see no evidence that would lead you to come to your conclusive hypothesis. Surely a nation with a rich history such as yours would be able to urr on the side of caution when threatning nations with military action should something happen.

Ok should the slave situation arise by 2012 or even before, i could assure you that the Exetonian Government and people would be appauled but we would also fight on the behalf of that nation to defend its rights to rule as it wishes (whilst of course using our peace keeping presence there to sequest as many slaves to freedom as possible)

[ooc: private communique to Amazonian Dominion]

SIC

Dominion Communications

We are merely providing fair warning to the nation of Athenae Magnus, as such a problem is very much likely to occur. Minorities across the globe face discrimination and oppression every day, and with heterosexuals being very much the minority in the nation in question, an entirely new situation - one of exploited reproduction - has a high likelihood of arising should the Athenae Magnus population decline (as it should with a primarily non-reproducing population). Consider it a warning for Athenae Magnus to watch out for and attempt to solve before it ever arises.

-Dominion Foreign Affairs

Official Communication of Fluidism Viriline:

We also express concern about the possible exploitation of heterosexuals, and we urge you to accept our deal. if we find out that heterosexuals are being enslaved and exploited, action will be taken.

Official Open Communique from The Imperial Foreign Ministry

I am most concerned given the developments that are occurring within the nation of Athenae Magnus. As the Dominion has rightly pointed out, there is a danger of heterosexuals becoming oppressed and exploited. Let it be known that the Empire cannot and will not tolerate this.

Emperor Ianovich I

Pax Lupum!

From of the office of Foreign Relations minister Ulanda Grey:

This is a comprehensive message being sent to every concerned nation, for and against, in succession.


Athenae Magnus would first like thank its supporters; Exetonia has shown graciousness and generosity beyond the pale. Zintharia is commended for their support as well, words cannot describe our appreciation; we know our measures are radical and it takes courage to stand behind us. We couldn't be happier to have such support from our Socialist compatriots, as far as we are concerned you are our allies.

The following directives have been issued by order of the president:

There are no passport limits on Exetonian/Zintharia citizens, as many may visit as see fit.

Exetonia's and Zintharia's goods are no longer under our usual tariff restrictions (though all goods that are banned are still sanctioned).

Joint military training sessions can commence at the request of Exetonia and/or Zintharia.

Citizens desiring to travel to Exetonian/Zintharian tourist destinations are given special, easy to acquire mini-Visas and Passports that last no more than 2 months.

Universities will be given funds to send their students on educational sight-seeing trips to Exetonia's and Zintharia's monuments, historic towns, nature preserves, and museums.

An Embassy will be established in both countries within the next year should permission be granted.


On to our detractors:

Threats of war amount to bullying of the worst kind. We are a small and peaceful nation, but we are perfectly willing to defend ourselves against any and all attacks. We threaten no nation, we wish only to live in peace and in a manner in which we choose.

To Fluidism Viriline:

We are astounded at your proposal. While we will not stop any of our women from choosing to put themselves before your ruler we don't have the power to compel them to do so. Your proposal has been picked up by our newspapers and television stations and anyone desiring to emigrate to your nation and wed your leader can contact your embassy/foreign office. If you do not have one of these we are willing to let you set it up provided you sign agreements which will guarantee no military action will be taken against us.


The foreign office, under the advice of the Public Health Minister, will be issuing the following statements to clear up the following common concerns:

For one, many suggest that our population will crash if we allow ourselves to become a majority homosexual population:

This is false, I am afraid, over half of all homosexuals are women. It is common practice, where allowed, that homosexual men will artificially inseminate homosexual women and adopt the resulting child. Heterosexual women are welcome to help as well.

Athenae Magnus will, by 2012, be the first nation on earth in which a majority of its population will be born through artificial insemination.

We have had, since 1973, a two-child or more tax policy due to our historically below-average birthrate even amongst heterosexuals. The government awards stipends to families with one child, with an increase for every child afterwards.

For instance: if you have one child the government will award you a one-time 1,000 Labor tax deduction. If you have two children it will be increased to 2,000 (which means you will have a total of 3,000 Labors). If you have three children you receive a one-time 1,000 dollar deduction and 1,000 dollars every year after that. For each additional child you'll get an additional 1,000 dollars a year.


It's worked remarkably well; nearly 50% of our homosexual population already has had at least one child and that figure is on a yearly rise as we begin our marketing campaign. We expect the homosexual population to maintain a birth-rate at the average heterosexual level by 2015.



Now onto the most pressing worry; the heterosexual population.

Heterosexuals are still welcome, of course; most of them came from heterosexual couples (as stated in the official press release) and we wouldn't lock our mothers and fathers in prison, whether or not they've rejected us.

Athenae Magnus is simply in a unusual position, we are naturally attaining a majority homosexual population; and we have the technology to maintain it.

There has been opposition, but Athenae has always been, going back to the middle-ages, a refuge for various minority groups (including Homosexuals, Jews, Communists, Pagans, Gypsies...etc..). So long as no opposition turns violent heterosexuals are still welcome to voice their concerns.

Any violence or discrimination of heterosexuals will not be tolerated, and heterosexual nationals are still welcome in our country.


We hope this has addressed all concerns from our neighbors. It is our desire to have as many friends as possible for we will be traveling into unknown territory; this is going to be a challenge after all. However, it is a challenge Athenae Magnus is proud to face; we hope to be the home of every homosexual and homosexual supporter.

So, to the people of the world we say: Athenae Magnus welcomes you: gay and gay-supporting; heteorsexual, bisexual, homosexual, trans-gendered or simply exploring!


Signed,
Foreign Relations Minister Ulanda Grey

The news of a homosexual majority abroad caused much intellectual debate in the Kiravian Empire. While homosexuality was permitted, the Empire had none of the ridiculous laws passed that granted special protections and privileges to those practicing it. Kiravian culture was very clan-based, and thus homosexuals, unable to produce children, weren't common.

The most puzzling question of all was, though: How could a majority homosexual country maintain its population?

The People's Communist State of North Calaveras would like to give there congrats to your fine nation, we are also a very pro-gay nation. We should open trade and vacations between our two countrys, we can help in your future gay-paradise.

OCC: ^^ yes...

Open Declaration of the Dictorial Republic of Sumer

I find it personally curious how much of the world continues to believe in false, and even bigoted, ideals of sexual orientation, let alone that it is genetic. In a nation such as mine, where same-sex and mixed-sex relations, both sexual and emotional, are the norm and have been for thousands of years, this concept of homosexual, or heterosexual rights, or indeed the existance of either distinct group, is merely a laughable concept of the foreign world. It appears, to us, that rather then further the rights of a segment of your population, you wish instead to divide and isolate them, to provide walls where there should be bridges. Yes, you may indeed see what you do as right, or great, but as your population declines and those left begin to understand their oppression imposed upon them by their own culture, you will begin to see reality. Your sexuality-segregation policies are merely a laughable way of commiting your own nation to the bowels of history, without a peep lest it be from someone some day suggesting that you tried something that failed.

Good luck with your endeavour and flawed concepts.

- Head of State, Dictator of Sumer, Priestess of Inanna,
Ridingir Kisikil Dumumiapuabiak Dumuaninatumak Urukak Leshbarkingdu Kalamak Ninuru

Signed: Kisikil Ninatuma

We in osterstatt are shocked at your nations forcing of people to adopt a sexuality that is not truly theirs. The use of technology to alter a child's mind without their decision is something that is abhorrent. While we in osterstatt endorse the right to quality of life by practicing euthanization of severely disabled before cognizance, we do not force our people already conscious to change. It would be best to allow the proper children to decide whether or not they wish to become deviants.

Regardless of my criticisms. I applaud your creation of a homeland for the Homosexual populace, and your offering to provide easy emigration. I wish to utilize your acceptance for osterstatt's homosexual population. We will pay for their initial housing and travel. We will also issue passports.

It is our desire to send our non-correctable deviants to your country, that we need not worry about them.

Would you accept these emigrants?

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Kiravian Empire

Permissum Astrum Subleuco

Imperial Secriat of State

Open Declaration

Upon learning of the legalisation of fetal neurochemical manipulation by the Magnusian government, the Kiravian Empire preemptively blocks all diplomatic, trade, or military relations with the People's Republic of Athenae Magnus. Furthermore, we officially condemn any and all use of non-preventative prenatal manipulation in any nation and by any method.

We do not do this out of discrimination towards homosexuals, we do this out of the philosophy that it is the right of an individual to determine his own destiny, and that it is beyond the right of the parent to alter a child before birth to fit their sexual preference, nonwithstanding whatever that preference may be.

It is true that there are cultural adversions to homosexuality. But if non-heterosexuals wish to truly fight these, then they become nigh hypocritical by altering their child to better suit their own personal views.

Heavy travel restrictions have been placed, barring any Imperial ship, or plane from travelling to Athenae Magnus, and any KE citizen whoe remains in Athenae Magnus for more than 10 days without permit or extenuating circumstance risks losing citizenship. Athenae Magnus nationals wishing to enter the Kiravian Empire ill be subject to a thorough background check, moderate travel restrictions within the Empire, and possible temporary surveillance.

This declaration and the act behind it have been approved by the Imperial Senate and Emperor Irasur Seawind.

An interesting report was in the Emperor's inbox about a nation of homosexuals. Beneath it was the most recent expendature report from the Transgender Department of his mental institutions, one of the departments not affected by the Belkan Purge under the Homosexual Equality subclause. Inspiration struck, and he wired the following telegram:

FROM THE DESK OF EMPEROR MUNDUS I
TO- THE GOVERNING BODY OF ATHENAE MAGNUS
Dear Sir, Madam, Sirmadam or Madamsir,
In Belkaros, homosexuality is not at all opposed. Transgenderism, on the other hand, is viewed as a mental defect. We have been at a loss as to what to do with these individuals and have been hospitalizing them as wards of the state. We would like to send these individuals to you to live in freedom.
Yours,
Gnaeus Mundus I
Emperor of Belkaros

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HUDSON PALACE

To all whom it may concern,

I feel profoundly compelled to mirror the most righteous sentiments expressed by my honourable peer in the Kiravian Empire regarding the harrowing dissemination of news that unborn offspring are artificially altered to espouse similar values of homosexuality as their parents.

Far be it for me to cast judgement on a sovereign government or any particular culture, however this manner of modification is beyond abhorrent, and one can only express one's concerns without resorting to the primitive nature of profanities with a great deal of self-control. These children, unborn though they may be, have a right to self-determination which goes above and beyond the prerogative of the parents, and not a soul - neither government nor individual - has the privilege to interfere in such a delicate matter. Mechanically or chemically altering this preference for one's own selfish ends goes well beyond all forms of decency. Your measures are little more than a form of positive discrimination!

One feels that one must put into place similar punitive measures as the Kiravian Empire, including the same manner of travel restrictions, along with additional trade embargoes. Taerkast money shall certainly not go towards the funding of such an oppressive and abhorrent regime. Without appearing too hostile, however, one would call for an international discussion regarding Athenae Magnus' continued mutilation of their children, and whether such should continue. One would hope that the Magnus government would comprehend the error of their ways and work to effect change most promptly.

Yours sincerely,



His Royal Majesty King Benjamin I,
Royal Kingdom of Taerkasten

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Official Statement

Frankly, the Federal Republic of Hamilay is not particularly concerned over any policy decisions with regards to sexuality enacted by Athenae Magnus. However, we do wish to point out that Ms Moneif's statement with regards to the following;

Homosexuals are the only naturally-born group that are born to parents that are not like them.

is rather dubious - take the mentally disabled, for example.

Also, we also hope that parents have the right to alter the sexuality of their children to facilitate the birth of a heterosexual child, or there is a clear double standard here.

However, we must reiterate that, as this policy does not appear to be problematic for either the population of Athenae Magnus or the world at large, it is not a cause for particular concern, although this may change if an agenda of institutionalised discrimination against heterosexuals becomes apparent. For this reason the Federal Republic urges international restraint, and we wish to warn that there may be unfortunate consequences for aggression directed at Athenae Magnus.

Regards.

The Hon. R. J. Fletcher
Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade
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To:R.J Fletcher, Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, FRH
From: James D Howard, minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Exetonia
Subject: Same Page

It has become apparent from your recent open declaration that we appear to be on the same page with regards to the current situation in Athenae Magnus and the current international tensions it is causing. Perhaps an organised plan of action should any unwarranted action be taken against Athenae Magnus should be discussed at this time with the hopes that we should never have to use it.

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Encrypted Communique
To Minister J. D. Howard, Exetonia/Minister U. Grey, Athenae Magnus

At this time, it is unlikely that the Federal Republic will be able to commit military units to provide for the security of Athenae Magnus, save possibly in the event of a full-scale invasion by a nation unfriendly to the Federal Republic. However, should Athenae Magnus accept it, we would be happy to provide economic, military and moral support in the event an overly hostile threat is made.

Kind regards.

The Hon. R. J. Fletcher
Minister of Foreign Affairs and Trade
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In Regards to the Crisis in Athenae Magnus,

As a "citizen of the world" - as certain, socially-conscious individuals will now call it - and an expatriate of a nation long since deceased, I keep my eyes wide for national entities and communities that seek to do something particularly drastic or challenging to the normal conceptions of what human culture and the collective unconsciousness of the human species deems "appropriate". Since the dawn of time, this naturally hypocritical species has denied desires and urges of their fellow man. Why? Simply because they themselves cannot see through the veil of ignorance and bypass that horrendous fog that blinds them.

However, much to the difficulty of some, on the other end of the spectrum, we are faced with individuals such as "The Honorable, Angelo De Orvaa": the "Homosexual President". Quite frankly, what bearing does an individual's sexual preference, orientation, or urges have on his or her ability to govern and administer? Truthfully, can one say or list a single point that would validate a persons desire for whom to make love with in relation to their administrative faculties?

Yet, back to my point; in the nation of Athenae Magnus (I'm assuming a carry-over of the Renaissance Age's resurgence of Greco-Roman culture, coming to mean "Great Athens".) is now using genetics and the religion of science to alter the perceptions and desires of the pre-born. Though the Aristocracy has dabbled in genetics - for different purposes - I do not see a reason or proper rationale behind altering the sexuality of a pre-born child in such a manner - mainly for two reasons: one being practicality, the other being another flaw in the very nature of the hypocritical animal that is the human being.

As stated, the first reason is merely - and very cruelly, I must state - practicality. For the first twelve to thirteen years of that altered child's life, he or she will not even know what "sexual orientation/preference/etc." is or will be. What, truthfully, does it matter? Is this for the security of the parents? If so, what should a truly loving couple - regardless of their sexual proclivities - care their child's sexual preference is? The government of Athenae Magnus states that this "alteration" is an attempt to destroy discrimination, when in fact, they are merely using "reverse discrimination". If the parents love their child - whether they be homosexual, heterosexual, or neuter - then the sexual proclivities of their child should be of no bearing to them - whether at birth or in the future. Yet, once more, I have deviated from my point: practicality. If one truly did desire to "socially engineer" a child to choose - or become - heterosexual or homosexual, why not use a much easier - much cheaper - form: propaganda, indoctrination, etc. Yet, perhaps this lies within the very heart of the problem: the naivety of the government of Athenae Magnus.

As I see it - and onto my second point - the government of Athenae Magnus - your government - is using genetics to break the "social relationship" in what they are attempting to do. They are attempting to rationalize the fact that they are destroying the possibilities of this child for their own political or social goals. Yet, instead of being firm in their purpose and using indoctrination or social engineering - tools of governments often deemed authoritarian or tyrannical - they are disassociating themselves to such a degree that they are able to fool themselves into believing what they are doing is proper and well.

To be completely honest, I know as a single individual that - at the moment at least - I will leave no lasting mark on this conflict. Just as well, as quite honestly, I do not care what foolish humans do with their foolish childer. It takes place within a nation that, quite honestly, is already missing out on the wonderful proclivities that their god gave them: the masculine penis, the feminine vagina, the unification of the two, and any combination thereof. "How," you say, "Are they committing this atrocity?" Through this alteration of children, the drafting of legislature to mandate morality - albeit different from the "heterosexual biased" legislature of the world, and the politicalization of the act of mating, they have lost the purpose of it all: enjoyment in the process of creation and love-making.

You all give-up so much in a futile attempt to secure what little you have...

With Regards,
Louis Riese

IC

The office of the ARTIS President-

"What?" A man behind a large dark oak spat as read a memo handed to him by a young advisor.

"It is as it reads sir I double checked then rechecked to make certain I wasnt brining you an april fool's day joke." The young man in the suit was appreciably restraining a laugh.

"I have seen many things in my years, but, this takes the cake. At least for the moment." the grey haired man shook his head.

"Draft a declaration sir?"

"To what? I would not soil my reputation adding to this debacle. O'Donnelly may have had the support to issue public statements on every issue but i will laughed out office for even acknowledging this.

The Sumerians have said all that needs to be said on the matter, tossing our lumber in only raising the flames.

I only want to hear of this again if they start exterminating people based on sexual choices. Then I will draft a statement. Till that moment please tell me you have something else for me to deal with besides playtime in fairyland."

From of the office of Foreign Relations minister Ulanda Grey:

An updated response to requests, inquiries, concerns, and other international developments and debates will be provided soon. Athenae Magnus thanks you for your patience as we attempt to handle the international firestorm our reforms have started.

Sincerly,
Ulanda Grey

Comrades of Athenae Magnus,

We are alarmed at your pro-gay tendencies. We are alarmed that you think that two gays can have children. This is why we have decided to declare a state of war on Athenae Magnus. Comrade Isildar believes that it will be for your greater good if we stamp out your tendencies.

In marxism,
United Socialist States of Uglywolf.

From the office of Foreign Relations Minister Ulanda Grey:

All requests from sympathetic nations will be met with gracious acceptance. Any assistance, diplomatic exchanges, economic partnerships, and military support is welcomed with open arms. Specific deals can be worked out directly by telegram.

We welcome the newly acquired support of North Calaveras, and the defensive support of Hamilay (Though your nation rejects our program).


Under the review of the National Advisory Board on Public Health and Medical Research I submit the following statements in response to criticisms regarding the nature of homosexuality as a biological construct.

All available, peer-reviewed research indicates the likely-hood of sexuality being rooted in genetics; at the very least the genetic background tends to preference one sort of sexual activity over another.

In hundreds of animal species, from birds to mammals, homosexuality is found to be naturally occurring. As far as modern biology is concerned; animals do not make a conscious decision to be this or that sexuality; it seems that they are naturally inclined towards gender preferences.


The concerns, and outright hysteria, on the part of some nations for our policy of promoting bio-chemical manipulation of fetus's towards one sexual preference needs to be addressed.

It's been said that we are denying the fetus's right of self-determination, to decide which sexual orientation they will be. Our doctors and biologists regret to inform these detractors that noone gets to decide their sexual orientation; it is decided by nature.

What we are doing is over-ruling nature in favor of our own needs and desires, it is placing more control in the hands of human beings; control over our destiny and our rights as a people to survive.

The people of Athenae Magnus did not come to this decision hastily, it took years of deliberation. However, we had to weigh the survival of homosexuals and our culture against the possibly unethical practice of biologically altering a fetus's sexuality. We feel we made the right decision.



GLBT Relations Minister Heidi Moneif will field all questions regarding the need for these measures and the cultural background that facilitated the desire, and the need, for their implementation.

We would like to, first of all, thank the government of Hamilay for it's just decision to defend us militarily, despite the fact that its officials do not find our policies agreeable.

Unfortunately, we must stand offended at the following statements issued by Hon. R. J. Fletcher:

"Frankly, the Federal Republic of Hamilay is not particularly concerned over any policy decisions with regards to sexuality enacted by Athenae Magnus. However, we do wish to point out that Ms Moneif's statement with regards to the following;

Homosexuals are the only naturally-born group that are born to parents that are not like them.

is rather dubious - take the mentally disabled, for example."


There is a rather stark difference between being born with a disability, a disorder, a dysfunction, or a disease and being born homosexual. Homosexuality is an acceptable, non-harmful, biological state of being much in the way having dark skin or almond eyes is.

We feel we did not make ourselves clear enough in the statements we made regarding the issue of being born to parents not of your sexual orientation; we are the only racial group not born to parents of our race.

If you accept the basic definition of race Homosexuality falls under the title. According to Miriam-Webster a race is defined as (bolded for emphasis):

2 a: a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics

There is no other race that is born to parents that not only do not share it's characteristics; in many cases they are openly hostile to their own children as a result of this racial difference.

Homosexuals have shared interests, shared habits, and shared biological characteristics (there are even noted differences in physical shape and appearance as well as different sorts of brain activity).


We are both flabbergasted and offended at the statements made by Louis Riese of Fifth Monarchy.

We understand that people coming from majority groups, or relatively un-oppressed or privileged groups will not understand the need for homosexuals to rear homosexual young and have a home, a nation for themselves. What you need to know is that homosexuals are terrified that this new age of medical wonders and religious fanaticism has the potential to wipe out all homosexuals within the next fifty years, especially in nations already attempting to eliminate their populations.

If we were Jews many wouldn't have a problem with us founding a homeland and raising our children to be Jewish, if we were Black Africans noone would bat an eye, if we were Gypsies, if we were Asians; if we were Indigenous tribes we would see an outpouring of support.

All other racial groups have a homeland, and nearly all major religious groups; homosexuals are the only minority which can never, naturally, attain a majority and have never had a nation to call their own. We have been beaten, murdered, harassed, tortured, given drugs and shock treatment, burned at the stake, raped, fired..etc..etc...for thousands of years. And now, at the dawn of the new millennium, it seems that all that pain and suffering may end with us all being slowly suffocated in the night; as bio-medical advancements continue it will be more and more possible for upstanding parents to "fix" their children, and especially easier to chemically "mark" homosexuals for future elimination.

We ask you, what are we to do? Until we have our own nation we can never be sure that the goodwill we have enjoyed in the last 10 years will last; historically our position has had the tendency to flip from total acceptance to outright genocide.

In classical times we were allowed to freely associate, we were tolerated and even accepted to a great degree. However, once Islam and Christianity moved in we were put on pillars and burned; and worse. We are afraid, we are terrified, and that is why we had to act in such a radical manner.

You say we are missing out on heterosexual love; we say you're missing out on the beauty of homosexual love. We have given so much to heterosexuals, culture, science, art, literature, politics; we are just asking to be given back the peace, security, and freedom that heterosexuals enjoy in 99.999999% of the countries in the world.


We have not forgotten the joy of love, Louis Riese; we appreciate love even more due to the fact that we've had to die for our love. Unlike any of you we have had to be tortured and killed for a single kiss, we've had our flesh torn to pieces just to hold the ones we love, we have had to duck and hide from nearly every political, economic, and religious system on earth and throughout most of time. We know love, we love greater and stronger than most because we are willing to fight and die for love.

In Greek times they allowed homosexuality to flourish in military ranks; they knew that men would fight harder if they knew their lovers were in danger. We all will fight together to protect our love; and to perpetuate our culture; the culture that has given the world some of the greatest works of art, literature, drama, and even science and warfare.

We hope you will come to understand this all in time.

Sincerely,
Ulanda Grey, Heidi Moneif

Endorsed by:

Athenae Magnus Medical Association

Athenae Magnus Psychology Board

A 3/4ths vote by the Emergency Committee on Diplomatic Relations.
Majority voice: Communist Party Sen. Jack Longdon
Minority voice: Le Soile Sen. Tanny Uston

A unanimous endorsement by the Presidential Cabinet

Signed personally by President Angelo De Orvaa

Dominion Foreign Affairs - Communications

While the use of artificial insemination can be a dangerous one - both physically and psychologically for mother and fetus - the Dominion can not make affair of this matter, as we already genetically modify physical attributes of discarded and unwanted fetuses for use in military programs.

As for now, the Dominion will wait and watch to see homosexual vs. heterosexual domestic policy that will arise from such demographic shifts within Athenae Magnus. As such, however, let it be known that Amazonia keeps its doors open for any heterosexuals living in Athenae Magnus that wish to leave for a primarily heterosexual society. However, our declaration still stands - should oppression of untolerable levels be found to be launched against the heterosexual population of Athenae Magnus, methods will be launched to extract such population before further damage can be inflicted.


-Dominion Foreign Affairs

To the Governing Authority of the People's Republic of Athenae Magnus,

I do not believe that your government has the proper capacity to understand what I meant with my philosophical statement. I never stated that you are "missing out on heterosexual love". I stated that, due to your politicization of sex, sexual preference or orientation, and the act of love making - period, whether homosexual, heterosexual, pansexual, etc. - that you as a people - and recently, you as a species - have lost the meaning behind the beauty of sexual relations with a loved one - regardless whether they are male or female.

As for stating that We do not understand your "persecution"... While you were merely a minority in a blasted-land of defunct tribes, We were being ripped from our soil by the Assyrian Empire. While you were gathering in the brothels and grottoes of the River Siene, the Euphrates, etc., We were being hunted hand-over-fist by the Persians. While you were enjoying true power in the seat of power, the Macedonian and Alexandrian Empires tracked Us to the very ends of the River Indus to stake Us to the very soil from whence we all originated. While We were proclaimed as "heretics", "deviants", and "heathens" by the Romans, you sat on the throne, proclaiming your imperial sovereignty over much of the known world. Lastly, while - at last - you were too being persecuted, we had suffered nearly a millennia of ignorance that nearly lead to the eradication of our entire species - whether by bullet, bomb, or dagger.

So, young one - young homonoth - before you place accusations, take note: I am one of your few friends within the community of the vau that believes that your species shouldn't be culled into near extinction.

~ Louis Riese

Dominion Scientific Affairs - Communications


For the informed reports of all concerned national parties;

A review of the case of nature's products to nurture's effects in the decision of sexual orientation


In bringing up the card of nature's effects on the decision of homosexuality, the nation of Athenae Magnus has brought up several topics which need to be addressed thoroughly with both biased sides, rather than just a single one. Indeed, eliminating bias in such a situation is impossible - with nations such as the Amazonian Dominion defending the rights of heterosexuals (though tolerating homsexuality), and with nations such as Athenae Magnus slanted heavily towards the needs of homosexuals.

That being said, homosexuality is not singularly a question of nature as implied by the nation of Athenae Magnus. In this statement, the nation in question has defied science's proof and drawn up its own singular "evidence" to defend their own validations. While the Dominion acknolwedges that biochemical levels in the brain and certain quantities of various neurotransmitters do affect levels of aggression and other tendencies that are often labled "male" or "female" in nature, scientific proof has yet to suggest that individuals are slated towards liking members of the opposite sex or the same sex more.

The nation of Athenae Magnus draws to claim that such examples of homosexuality have been witnessed in nature, which is true. What it erroneously claims, however, is that nature in its sense of predestination has determined this trait. Rather, it is environmental circumstances that have determined homosexuality amongst the animal kingdom. In each and every instance so far documented objectively, such instances of homosexuality occur in environments dominated by a single gender. The classical case is the captivity of penguins leading to homosexuality amongst penguin populations. Rather than being simply a random variable, such behavior arose in the case in question from the lack of female individuals.

What such cases prove is not nature's slant towards homosexuality or heterosexuality, but rather, nature's drive to reproduction. Reproduction is the goal of every species to further generations and the basis of the sex drive. In even the most desperate of situations - in such the penguin situation, there being a lack of females to mate with - the sex drive to reproduce still rules, tempting homosexuality. Such sex drives can deviate due to social, environmental, or political shifts, a case proven time and again throughout history.

Athenae Magnus's statement that homosexuality is identical to the states of eye color and hair color is a fallacy. Sexual orientation is certainly not attributed to any naturally-occuring gene on the human genome, and so has not been found even with the products of the Human Genome Project completed. No gene has keyed for homosexuality or heterosexuality - simply towards varying chemical levels, none of which trend towards homosexuality or heterosexuality.

Rather, it is environmental circumstances that have slated populations towards homosexuality or heterosexuality. Homosexuality arose in Ancient Greece in response to free-thinking minds of the day and a liberal atmosphere that welcomed social change and open thought. Homosexuality has arisen through various historical militaries due not to biological flags, but to the passion involved in battle and the comraderie that has transcended simple teamwork in a military. Each case is different; and none are simply merely biological incidents.

Even in Athenae Magnus, the power of nurture over nature is quite evident. Even as the scientists of Athenae Magnus attempt to "engineer" homosexuals, they will never find a specific gene to "create" homosexuality. There is no gene. They may be able to increase chemical levels to create more masculine or more feminine individuals in terms of traits, but they will never be able to direct an individual's sexual orientation through bioengineering. Their environment, however, will direct such sexual orientation and hence produce a homosexual individual. They have no need to go and waste resources in attempting bioengineering, as it is virtually useless, unless one wants to translate a fetus into a more masculine or feminine individual in terms of traits.

In all, nature provides the small part of determining traits - which can lead to increased similarity towards one gender or another, but not affinity. The most masculine fetus from Praetonia could very well end up a homosexual in Athenae Magnus, while a genetically-modified developing child in Athenae Magnus could very well end up a heterosexual in Automagfreek. Psychology and society's combined effects can change the most astute mind.


-Amazonian National Board of Science

OOC- Damn, Amazonian Beasts is well spoken. I just love reading his/her posts. Just throwing that out there. Will post military support as needed.

The Principality of Kurona


Kurona outright condemns your desires to mess with the laws of nature. Your claim the fetus is predetermined to chose has been debunked by most experts from all nations that have responded as being stuff of nonsense. Even if it were you are messing the very laws of nature which will have consequences in the end. Consequence you can not fathom until it is far too late. and your own ideas you have stated are just as mundane and medieval of thought as the oppression of Homosexuals you claim others apply. Kurona will not support you in these decisions ever.

OOC: Thanks, Belkaros - him, for reference :D

Letter from the Theocrat's Office to Athenae Magnus:

Many nations are eager for a response.

Letter from Information Minister Aaron Pfizer:


We are afraid a lengthy and full response to nations concerned with our policies and the reasons behind them will still be some time in coming. The Information Ministry is authorized to provide links to relevant articles and documents indicating the validity of our stance.

Have a look here, and please be patient as the government of Athenae Magnus adapts to our nation's recent entry onto the world stage:

This provides a clear example of why it is patently obvious that homosexuality is primarily a biological trait:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/01/02/sheep_research/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/03/040309073256.htm


These are statements from the international scientific community endorsing the theory of biologically-based sexuality:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/05/020528074252.htm

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002340883_gayscience19m.html

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/12/071210094541.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4215427.stm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/11/071130165501.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/10/031022062408.htm

http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=OytPgw_cNtUC&oi=fnd&pg=PA31&dq=homosexuality+biological&ots=lV2xBYMU43&sig=zN2wQ6IWAOEAn1j-6ItAnDbVCvM#PPA38,M1


This is a balanced debate, covering both sides of the argument:

http://www.philosophy.ilstu.edu/horvath/PHI202Sp08/LeVayHamerByne.homobio.pdf


Sincerly,
Aaron Pfizer