NationStates Jolt Archive

IC Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=552692

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OOC: I know you said no posting, so I made an OOC thread to let some things be said I think need to be said.

One, I replied as an elf normally would, being rather arrogant and prideful with their magical strength and long lives. So, no one take that to heart. Not sure if they did, but whatever.

Second, MM, buddy....you're coming off really arrogant here, like a bit too much. I know we all have different tech levels due to being from different nations (Mine being on the level of LOTR basically but without the blasting powder), but we all don't like nukes as much as you do. It's good to know Joram can throw down with the big boys, but reign in the guy. Its bound to make someone angry at this rate. I know he's supposed to be arrogant, but don't overdo, kay?

Also, guys, seriously. I can understand why Bal did the IC post on it, but the arguing is getting a bit.....I can't describe. You are arguing about who has had the more tragedy done to them. It rang slightly of who had the bigger junk in the trunk, if you get my meaning. I can see we are moving along, but lets avoid stuff like that in the future. We're here to help build fantasy tech, not compare staffs.

In my defense, I had to hurriedly write my second post in the morning, so I thought the beast was dead, and I was only able to reply to posts I sped read, so I simply replied to the argument.

I'm done now, I await for Warhaven's post.

Good, this should cut down the clutter and bring some organization to things.
As for my half of the arguing, my character was trying to get the point across that "not everything is glamorous, deal with it and move on to become a better person." But hopefully it'll be over now and Warhaven can catch up and sort things out. Heaven knows, we REALLY need it.

IC Thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=552692

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OOC: I know you said no posting, so I made an OOC thread to let some things be said I think need to be said.

One, I replied as an elf normally would, being rather arrogant and prideful with their magical strength and long lives. So, no one take that to heart. Not sure if they did, but whatever.

Second, MM, buddy....you're coming off really arrogant here, like a bit too much. I know we all have different tech levels due to being from different nations (Mine being on the level of LOTR basically but without the blasting powder), but we all don't like nukes as much as you do. It's good to know Joram can throw down with the big boys, but reign in the guy. Its bound to make someone angry at this rate. I know he's supposed to be arrogant, but don't overdo, kay?

Also, guys, seriously. I can understand why Bal did the IC post on it, but the arguing is getting a bit.....I can't describe. You are arguing about who has had the more tragedy done to them. It rang slightly of who had the bigger junk in the trunk, if you get my meaning. I can see we are moving along, but lets avoid stuff like that in the future. We're here to help build fantasy tech, not compare staffs.

In my defense, I had to hurriedly write my second post in the morning, so I thought the beast was dead, and I was only able to reply to posts I sped read, so I simply replied to the argument.

I'm done now, I await for Warhaven's post.

James is the one with the nuke. Minor, wildly unimportant correction.

It's nort arrogance so much as disgust at the way things are going. The sheer incompetence of other delegates, and their narrow mindedness, is severly angering the pair.

James is the one with the nuke. Minor, wildly unimportant correction.

It's nort arrogance so much as disgust at the way things are going. The sheer incompetence of other delegates, and their narrow mindedness, is severly angering the pair.

I agree. Of course, it didn't help that they both thought the other was being thick skulled (which is a literal case with Josh, I lost track of how many falls he's had without breaking anything. I should think about working on that...). But they called a truce now, so hopefully they can find a way to work together rather than bicker.

Oh, and if anyone finds his emotional weather patterns annoying, let me know and I can tone it down.

As for the tech levels, we're almost all from different worlds, so shouldn't we be allowed to bring that tech with us? I see it more like cultural differences than anything. Then again, the tech I've got is about that of WWII Europe so any opportunity to improve is appreciated.

I agree. Of course, it didn't help that they both thought the other was being thick skulled (which is a literal case with Josh, I lost track of how many falls he's had without breaking anything. I should think about working on that...). But they called a truce now, so hopefully they can find a way to work together rather than bicker.

Oh, and if anyone finds his emotional weather patterns annoying, let me know and I can tone it down.

As for the tech levels, we're almost all from different worlds, so shouldn't we be allowed to bring that tech with us? I see it more like cultural differences than anything. Then again, the tech I've got is about that of WWII Europe so any opportunity to improve is appreciated.

First Advice: Burn the Carcano's. :p

WWII Europe loosely had nuclear devices, so I'm not doing anything that he couldn't theoretically do.

Continuing on, it seems rather apparent that everyone is trying to make this an alliance. That simply will not stand. For one thing the very idea is asinine. For a secondI'm FT, Telros is PT, you're, as you mentioned, WWII.... The only thing anyone here has in common is magery. Make it an academy, or some such, not an organization with ANY military element.

Ok, let me be more specific, Europe 1940. Nukes were in their early stages, even with the Manhattan Project. I could do it, but they wouldn't be nearly as powerful as yours. And the tech levels can mix here since this is a world between worlds, or am I mistaken?

Also I think we should clarify things a bit. What I (and many others) are trying to do is set up an academy and a place of study, that kind of thing, which you want. The "military" you are thinking of is merely a tiny little task force designed to protect the school in times of an attack. They will NOT go to wars. They will NOT fight unless the school is under attack. They will NOT leave alliance grounds when on duty so that they won't threaten anything. We're not trying to build something up to help back us up in our personal wars, rather it's just something so that we can protect the property. Think of them as magically improved security guards rather than an army. Is that agreeable or no?

Ok, let me be more specific, Europe 1940. Nukes were in their early stages, even with the Manhattan Project. I could do it, but they wouldn't be nearly as powerful as yours. And the tech levels can mix here since this is a world between worlds, or am I mistaken?

Also I think we should clarify things a bit. What I (and many others) are trying to do is set up an academy and a place of study, that kind of thing, which you want. The "military" you are thinking of is merely a tiny little task force designed to protect the school in times of an attack. They will NOT go to wars. They will NOT fight unless the school is under attack. They will NOT leave alliance grounds when on duty so that they won't threaten anything. We're not trying to build something up to help back us up in our personal wars, rather it's just something so that we can protect the property. Think of them as magically improved security guards rather than an army. Is that agreeable or no?

I'd like to point out that in order to handle the STUDENTS, the "security force" would need to be so powerful as to make the academy redundant. What kind ofthreats do mage academies tnd to run into? Demonic assaults, magic gone awry, and similar things. Simply because you have ten billion guys with magic tools and security badges, doesn't mean they can stop an accidentally summoned Elder Daemon. Security guards are less than redshirts. If they are elite daemon killing, dragonslaying, zombie banishing, lich maiming elite infantry armed with uberweapons of destruction and murder, WHY are they guarding a mage school, rather than TEACHING at it?

Oh, now that last sentence was one hell of an argument. And it's one that I don't have an answer for. I suppose we'll have to make like Harry Potter and have the teachers defend the place then. That a good enough compromise for you?

Also, we should start coming up with positions we'll need filled. Dean of Students or Principal comes to mind. We'll need a variety of teachers and minor positions like custodians I think will kind of fill themselves in. Another thought is, should we go into detail about subjects taught or no? I have a feeling we'll all want our own brands of history and magic taught so we'll need to generalize things a bit. Fire and Water magi will probably have to cooperate with a class like "Elemental Magics" though a bard's musical magic would probably be it's own class that ties in with others. I'm not sure what one would call Joshua's magic and similar ones though, it's evolved and taken on a life of it's own.

Oh, now that last sentence was one hell of an argument. And it's one that I don't have an answer for. I suppose we'll have to make like Harry Potter and have the teachers defend the place then. That a good enough compromise for you?

Also, we should start coming up with positions we'll need filled. Dean of Students or Principal comes to mind. We'll need a variety of teachers and minor positions like custodians I think will kind of fill themselves in. Another thought is, should we go into detail about subjects taught or no? I have a feeling we'll all want our own brands of history and magic taught so we'll need to generalize things a bit. Fire and Water magi will probably have to cooperate with a class like "Elemental Magics" though a bard's musical magic would probably be it's own class that ties in with others. I'm not sure what one would call Joshua's magic and similar ones though, it's evolved and taken on a life of it's own.

Kinda what I've been arguing the entire time.

I'd say more specialization than that, a class for each elemenbt, and whatever other forms of magic you happen to have, classes for the various histories, and specialties within those classes, and classes for the various forms that don't fall into the elemental spectrum.

As a note, I will be solidly against either Balrogga or Warhaven having a position of authority, on the basis that Warhaven is very much a tool of cliches, and Balroga grates upon my nerves with his sanctimonius prattle. Magic Sorcery would be strenuously objected to, but reluctantly accepted. Those seem to be the only ones with which I have any problem. I'd lobby strongly for Telros, orCtan to take an authoritative position st the academy. Based upon the rather lackluster end of the last thread wherein Balrogga "ran" a school of magic, and in so doing ended up, as best I can gather, effectively utterly depopulating the thread by letting everyone run wild.

You never made it clear that's what you wanted. You kinda made it sound like if there's an attack that it's every man for themselves and screw the little guy.

I'm going to have to vote Telros cause from my experience he's been the one to take initiative and run like a mad man with it. As for Balroga's prattle, it gives me something to read and keeps me from being bored. :D

And let's start a couple lists here.
Classes
Elemental magic (one class per major element)
Musical magic
Spellwork (creating spells, casting verbal/written ones, ect.)
Alchemic magic (where Joshua's started out)
Inherent magic
Psyonics (this is fairly wide open)
Magic as an energy (what Joshua's turned into, almost like a being that can move and manipulate things)
Conjuring/disappear
Magical Transportation
Histories (general magic, specific types of magic, various important people and worlds)

positions to be filled
Teachers
Dean/principal
Council Head
Department Heads (maybe?)


Feel free to add to the list.

That is how the White Tower was set up. The instructors were responsible for answering the calls for help and their authority only really extended to the actual academy itself.

My vision is to have an academy based thing without any national alliance thing. That just ties nations into politics, a mess we don’t want. The instructors will of course teach the students and they will each have their own specialty but also teach any generals that are not covered by their areas of specialty.

As far as your comment about me running the White Tower awry, it was only after 16,157 posts so I must have done something right before the players that were in the Thread went on to do RL things. I can always go away back to the Tower and open it as a rival school. I am sure some may find you intolerable enough to follow me back there.

I don’t want this to be a war. Something like that would ruin the thread so set aside your OOC feelings toward me and work with everyone else to make IC posts that progress the STORY, the only important thing here. If the others do not want me here then I will leave. I don’t stay where I am not wanted. Just let me know ASAP.

Guys, organization is nice and all, but if this becomes EXACTLY like a school, and not with a bit of elbow room for freeform, I will be withdrawing.

Also, no I do NOT want cultural exchanges. My nation is at the tech level it is BECAUSE I want it there. I do not want 1940's era nations to cross over the technology they have into my culture. I'd rather not have the crisis of trying to find a way to preserve my nations culture once that is introduced.

Now, MM, as for your announcement....

I will not start a flame war here, nor will I tolerate one. So, as OP of this thread, I am going to ask you to not say such things about the people I rp with. If that is your opinion of them, fine, but don't say it here.

Now, Balrogga, I have never seen to be sanctimonious. He has been humble, friendly, helpful, and always willing to do stuff for people in ALL the threads I have been in with him. You say his prattle annoys you; tell me, have you considered how the arrogance of your characters and love for technology have annoyed others? I have already seen the annoyance in peoples posts about that. I also do not consider WH's characters too cliche. I am sure we all have cliche characters, but how we rp them matters.

Also, while I thank you for how highly you consider me, remember this is only my first run in Fantasy tech. Sure, I have rped it before, seen and read enough of the genre to do it, but its still my first time. I would do my best if selected but I am still a new guy when it comes to this.

As for Warhaven...are you kidding me? You are saying the OP of the THREAD cannot be part of running the organization he is RESTORING? That's just...wow, I cannot show enough my shock at that.

As for Bal's school, it went on for quite some time. I don't see how it was so bad if it was so long and nominated for one of the longest threads in NS if I recall correctly.


EDIT: I just saw Sylvonia's post. I am...honored by your words. I will be honest in that I don't remember meeting you, so I guess you are talking from reading the threads I have been in. In any case, thank you for the support. But I'd honestly like WH and Balrogga, along with C'tan, on it as they are well-experienced, innovative and good rpers.

That is how the White Tower was set up. The instructors were responsible for answering the calls for help and their authority only really extended to the actual academy itself.

My vision is to have an academy based thing without any national alliance thing. That just ties nations into politics, a mess we don’t want. The instructors will of course teach the students and they will each have their own specialty but also teach any generals that are not covered by their areas of specialty.

As far as your comment about me running the White Tower awry, it was only after 16,157 posts so I must have done something right before the players that were in the Thread went on to do RL things. I can always go away back to the Tower and open it as a rival school. I am sure some may find you intolerable enough to follow me back there.

I don’t want this to be a war. Something like that would ruin the thread so set aside your OOC feelings toward me and work with everyone else to make IC posts that progress the STORY, the only important thing here. If the others do not want me here then I will leave. I don’t stay where I am not wanted. Just let me know ASAP.

If you open it as a rival school expect Joshua and his army of Golums to follow and not thing twice about causing damage. :D

Nah, I'm just messing with you, he'd probably tag along for the ride and we'll see what happens.

Guys, organization is nice and all, but if this becomes EXACTLY like a school, and not with a bit of elbow room for freeform, I will be withdrawing.

Also, no I do NOT want cultural exchanges. My nation is at the tech level it is BECAUSE I want it there. I do not want 1940's era nations to cross over the technology they have into my culture. I'd rather not have the crisis of trying to find a way to preserve my nations culture once that is introduced.

Now, MM, as for your announcement....

I will not start a flame war here, nor will I tolerate one. So, as OP of this thread, I am going to ask you to not say such things about the people I rp with. If that is your opinion of them, fine, but don't say it here.

Now, Balrogga, I have never seen to be sanctimonious. He has been humble, friendly, helpful, and always willing to do stuff for people in ALL the threads I have been in with him. You say his prattle annoys you; tell me, have you considered how the arrogance of your characters and love for technology have annoyed others? I have already seen the annoyance in peoples posts about that. I also do not consider his characters too cliche. I am sure we all have cliche characters, but how we rp them matters.

Also, while I thank you for how highly you consider me, remember this is only my first run in Fantasy tech. Sure, I have rped it before, seen and read enough of the genre to do it, but its still my first time. I would do my best if selected but I am still a new guy when it comes to this.

As for Warhaven...are you kidding me? You are saying the OP of the THREAD cannot be part of running the organization he is RESTORING? That's just...wow, I cannot show enough my shock at that.

As for Bal's school, it went on for quite some time. I don't see how it was so bad if it was so long and nominated for one of the longest threads in NS if I recall correctly.


EDIT: I just saw Sylvonia's post. I am...honored by your words. I will be honest in that I don't remember meeting you, so I guess you are talking from reading the threads I have been in. In any case, thank you for the support. But I'd honestly like WH and Balrogga, along with C'tan, on it as they are well-experienced, innovative and good rpers.

I am completely serious. It's fairly common in FT. The only FT organization where the progenitor is also the leader is the GE, and we are all aware of just what a shining example that is for everyone. I'm rather hopeful it's fairly common most everywhere, but I cannot speak to that with any definite certainty. Consider that, had everything been dependent upon its creators for continued life and success, the GFFA and ESUS would have died long ago, as their primary creatrs are effectively non-entities in RP.

Warhaven has in my experience repeatedly demonstrated to create, but not effectively execute a plan. I applaud the idea, but feel that based on my past experience with him, I cannot in any way support him as an authority figure.

The White Tower was more run by Kaymiril and Snake Eaters, upon their abandonment of the thread, and with only Balrogga remaining as a control, it rapidly disintegrated. In my experience, both he and his crony Godular subscribe to a theory of age being equivalent to power, whereby he justifies all things, no matter their objectionable nature. Based on that, and the rapid disintegration of the White Tower when under his sole control, I cannot support him as an authority figure. After Kaymirils exodus, it lasted a whopping ten pages, after SE left it lasted an awe inspiring 2. Two pages of mainly OOC posts at that.

The inclusion of the Behemoth was a contrived plot device, unnecessary to the furtherance of the story, and simply blowing it up is the most effective way to get back to the actual point of the thread, which is the creation of the college, and not the destruction of a random monster. No matter how much it may be disliked, the furtherance of the story is my goal, and not, as mentioned, the elimination of random monsters.

I think that sums up everything I have to say on this matter, and all I will say OOCly.

My personal favorites, Enchantment, Artifice, and Arcane Metallurgy, I feel should be included in the list of classes.

*sigh*

MM, if you have a problem please talk directly to me and not shout your OOC feelings to the internet. Remember, you are using your OOC feelings to affect your IC actions. That is not a good sign. I don’t know what I did to warrant these personal attacks but you have to let it go before it twists you further.

Your comments about the founders of the GFFA and the ESUS not RPing is absolutely false. CW and Abh are still playing actively and from what I understand they are two of the founding members of the GFFA. CW even states he is in his Sig. Mindset is the founder of the ESUS and is still RPing. He says so in the List Of FT Nations Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=551755).

Kay quit NS for school. Her nation no longer exists. SE also went off to school. Several of the remaining players no longer have active accounts either. You cannot place the blame on me if they decided RL was more important than some silly internet game yet I still feel the target upon me.

You comment about Godular is also not researched very well. I went almost a whole year without even RPing with him, us having a falling out and only recently started working together in a thread where we were both helping a third party nation rebuild after a devastating attack (without the foreknowledge of the other being there ICly).

Also your comment about beings deriving their power based on their age, it is true. Galvenor has over three years of OOC playtime. I introduced him into the White Tower back on 13-01-2005, 7:41 AM (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7932866&postcount=16), that allows over 1100 IC years of existence that is absolutely documented (based upon the widely accepted 1 RL day = 1 NS year). I role-played the character to the level of ability he is at and earned it. Read the thousand pages of White Tower if you don’t believe me.

Now let the damn thing drop.


I must apologize to everyone for the turn the OOC Thread took. I do not wish to continue the arguments, no matter if they are valid or invalid in nature. NS is not the place for that.



If I were to open the White Tower as a rival school I would ask that nobody remove their characters from this RP, instead creating more so you have ones in both schools. We are after all an academy, not a national get together … it would be too political in nature if we went that way. Besides, you could have your characters run into each other as competing characters in your other Threads to create more IC Drama. It would expand the RP options.




Back to the topic at hand.

Galvenor’s specialty is Meta-Magic, or the manipulation of spells by changing their raw mana to create or merge them together. He is also a pure mind and interacts solely by Psionic abilities, as all Ta’Nar and Childer do so he could be working with students in that field too.

My idea for this was as follows:

throw together a sort of council of players to OOCly agree upon a loose set of regulations to fantasy tech. Maybe even RP it along the way.

Mainly, that was to accomplish the following:

1)Establish a complete list of all known non-RL deities and demi-gods.

2)Establish a standard set of terminology. (Its hard when one is a wizard, another is a mage, both are the same power, yet to one, a wizard is a mage of advanced skill and knowledge. Also, Muggle seems perfectly fine to describe one without any skill in magic, psionics, or anything in that category.

3)Establish a standard set of Elements. (Everyone knows fire, Water, Earth and sky, but what of others? Chaos should certainly be included, so should others.)

4) establish a Methodology. (is magic done by reciting poetry, the will and the word, the mind alone? Does it require a careful mixing of Elements, as though the were ingredients? How much can one cast anyways? How do we define one's limit?)

5)Establish a universal spellbook, and a list of Forbidden magic. This isn't to say these are the only spells one should use, or that Forbidden magic is neccessarily forbidden, only that the universal spellbook are the most widely known spells, and that Forbidden Magic is sort of like Nukes in MT, a real RP killer, and thus should be used as a plot device, like The Flares.

6) teach the accepted universal standard to others.

This isn't to say any of these are the ONLY things one can do in Fantasy, but rather it establishes a loose universal standard any newcomer to the tech can look at, agree on, and follow. Anyone can have their own varience, and will obviously have their own private spellbook, and will likely do otherthings diffrent from the standard, which brings us to step seven:

7) establish the list of Varience: a list with a one post per nation one-shot, of how their nation varies from the universal Norm and other important things to be aware of. This could be a part of one's factbook we keep the link to, it could be a sheet of things one posts in the Varience thread, or maybe someone just decides to follow the universal standard. The point of this list, is to provide a handy quick refrence to how someone does something diffrently from the standard. Basically a factbook, except totally devoted to one concept.

In closing, I think The council and it's works would provide for a universal neutral ground, sort of like the U.N, with it's Multi-national laws, except for magic, and ours wouldn't be real IC laws, unless we wanted them to be, just agreements.


Now, about me having a position of authority:....... I really don't want one, except for one suggustion I'll post Icly, but what it amounts to is this:
I designed The Magekillers in the unlikely event Kay or Bal decided to attack me, or MS after I met her as Ri-an, or someone just looking to make a name for themselves.

I'm happy to teach about The Void (I am the most qualified after all), about Magi-tech (the blending of Magic and science), and anything else you want me to do. But really, I want to use the magekillers, and the Arachnians.
From what I gather, the popular consensus is that everyone wants a school to tech the youngins about their powers, and how to use them, but not to protect them so much they become weak when faced with adversity.
What I want is just that, to be that real adversity, to be the Test administrator, to have them fight either a Magekiller, or an Arachnian. Either they live to tell the tale, or they die, or are so horribly maimed and scarred for life they wish they had died, or some other less horrible fate should it be wished I hold back somewhat.

I feel this how I can best satisfy the general desires of the group.

Miehm is absolutly correct, I can throw plans together with the best of them (I knew I should've taken that job offer before Iraq happened:p), but when it comes to actual execution, I tend to falter after awhile.

Also, The White tower falling apart was my fault, I felt the need to be superior to everyone, and everything, and still not entirely trusting Bal, Snake or Kay, devised Kajeenith and the Nothingness originally as the one thing that could totally pwn them and destroy them. In the end, it drove us apart, and inspired them to seek more worthwhile pursuits elsewhere in RL, and so they left. It worked, it destroyed the tower, but not like I planned. It is one of the few things I regret in life.

This is why I do not want such a position here, other than to teach the one area I'm qualified to teach, and teach in an area I personally don't see much use of in Ns that I myself did not create, but rather cobbked together from numerous sources most of which I don't even remember anymore. If I am given any more authority than that, I cannot promise I wouldn't fall back into my old need for complete superiority.

I simply assumed authority for the debate to provide direction. As soon as Elections are over, I'll gladly move aside.

Now, let us quite this bickering and arguing like a bunch of first year mages who just discovered the existence of Fire magic.:D

1)Establish a complete list of all known non-RL deities and demi-gods.

2)Establish a standard set of terminology. (Its hard when one is a wizard, another is a mage, both are the same power, yet to one, a wizard is a mage of advanced skill and knowledge. Also, Muggle seems perfectly fine to describe one without any skill in magic, psionics, or anything in that category.

3)Establish a standard set of Elements. (Everyone knows fire, Water, Earth and sky, but what of others? Chaos should certainly be included, so should others.)

4) establish a Methodology. (is magic done by reciting poetry, the will and the word, the mind alone? Does it require a careful mixing of Elements, as though the were ingredients? How much can one cast anyways? How do we define one's limit?)

5)Establish a universal spellbook, and a list of Forbidden magic. This isn't to say these are the only spells one should use, or that Forbidden magic is neccessarily forbidden, only that the universal spellbook are the most widely known spells, and that Forbidden Magic is sort of like Nukes in MT, a real RP killer, and thus should be used as a plot device, like The Flares.

6) teach the accepted universal standard to others.

This isn't to say any of these are the ONLY things one can do in Fantasy, but rather it establishes a loose universal standard any newcomer to the tech can look at, agree on, and follow. Anyone can have their own varience, and will obviously have their own private spellbook, and will likely do otherthings diffrent from the standard, which brings us to step seven:

7) establish the list of Varience: a list with a one post per nation one-shot, of how their nation varies from the universal Norm and other important things to be aware of. This could be a part of one's factbook we keep the link to, it could be a sheet of things one posts in the Varience thread, or maybe someone just decides to follow the universal standard. The point of this list, is to provide a handy quick refrence to how someone does something diffrently from the standard. Basically a factbook, except totally devoted to one concept.


Well, here's my reply to these from my view.

1: That's fine, nothing wrong with a list.

2: OOCly, I don't see why we need to have just ONE set of terms. Having different words for things shows culture. I mean, everyone has different names for stuff in FT, and they aren't all the same.

3. Unsure, I assume this is just a list.

4. There are many methods, so you can't just have one method of doing things.

5. I am iffy with this, as everyone has spells for different reasons. My nation has only the spell repertoire it has for a reason, and adding new spells to it would mess things up, and also, everyone cannot learn all the spells in a Universal spellbook. Theres just too many to learn, and it'd be pretty ridiculous to know them all.

6. I don't like teaching of a universal standard to others. It should be we teach them what fits them. If its the univeral standard, fine. But if they are fire people, and are skilled with it, we aren't going to teach them about water control, are we?

I am a bit uneasy about this establishing of regulations, no matter how 'loose' over Fantasy. I like going about my way with my way of doings thing, and not to be restricted by what people think should be done in fantasy tech.

If I am misinterpreting things, then tell me as this is how I am seeing this right now.

Well, I suppose I'll chip in a bit more.

So far the list of classes (to my knowledge and obviously we can create more if need be) is as follows.
Elemental magic (one class per major element)
Musical magic
Spellwork (creating spells, casting verbal/written ones, ect.)
Alchemic magic (where Joshua's started out)
Inherent magic
Psyonics (this is fairly wide open)
Magic as an energy (what Joshua's turned into, almost like a being that can move and manipulate things)
Conjuring/disappear
Magical Transportation
Histories (general magic, specific types of magic, various important people and worlds)
Meta-Magic
Enchantment
Artifice
Arcane Metallurgy
The Void
Magical technology

I say we hasten the process of getting the Wizard Council Code set up and then allow for Warhaven to have his go at playing the Magekillers as true bad guys, not just someone looking to bug the school. The behemoth was interesting, but it's too easy to defeat, even if that just set it back. Besides, I have a few additional charcters I could bring in as students once we open the school.

*sigh*

MM, if you have a problem please talk directly to me and not shout your OOC feelings to the internet. Remember, you are using your OOC feelings to affect your IC actions. That is not a good sign. I don’t know what I did to warrant these personal attacks but you have to let it go before it twists you further.

Your comments about the founders of the GFFA and the ESUS not RPing is absolutely false. CW and Abh are still playing actively and from what I understand they are two of the founding members of the GFFA. CW even states he is in his Sig. Mindset is the founder of the ESUS and is still RPing. He says so in the List Of FT Nations Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=551755).

Kay quit NS for school. Her nation no longer exists. SE also went off to school. Several of the remaining players no longer have active accounts either. You cannot place the blame on me if they decided RL was more important than some silly internet game yet I still feel the target upon me.

You comment about Godular is also not researched very well. I went almost a whole year without even RPing with him, us having a falling out and only recently started working together in a thread where we were both helping a third party nation rebuild after a devastating attack (without the foreknowledge of the other being there ICly).

Also your comment about beings deriving their power based on their age, it is true. Galvenor has over three years of OOC playtime. I introduced him into the White Tower back on 13-01-2005, 7:41 AM (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=7932866&postcount=16), that allows over 1100 IC years of existence that is absolutely documented (based upon the widely accepted 1 RL day = 1 NS year). I role-played the character to the level of ability he is at and earned it. Read the thousand pages of White Tower if you don’t believe me.

Now let the damn thing drop.


I must apologize to everyone for the turn the OOC Thread took. I do not wish to continue the arguments, no matter if they are valid or invalid in nature. NS is not the place for that.



If I were to open the White Tower as a rival school I would ask that nobody remove their characters from this RP, instead creating more so you have ones in both schools. We are after all an academy, not a national get together … it would be too political in nature if we went that way. Besides, you could have your characters run into each other as competing characters in your other Threads to create more IC Drama. It would expand the RP options.




Back to the topic at hand.

Galvenor’s specialty is Meta-Magic, or the manipulation of spells by changing their raw mana to create or merge them together. He is also a pure mind and interacts solely by Psionic abilities, as all Ta’Nar and Childer do so he could be working with students in that field too.

I said I wasn't going to reply, but your statements require some correction. I did not say that they did not RP, simply that they are not in charge. The ESUS, for all intents and purpose, as best I can tell, has no leader in the sense that the GE has a leader, though I will submit that Mindset is your mouthpiece. CoreWorlds is not in any position of authority within the GFFA. The issue at hand is creation versus authority, not continued playing.

Kay still RPs offsite, having gotten tired of NS, SE I cannot speak for, and therefore that portion of your argument also falls flat, though I believe he did mention quitting permanently at some point when last we spoke.

However, despite my opinion, Warhaven has taken the rap for you, and as such, I apologize.

Most of the things on his list of ideas are ok by me, barring the appearance of the universal standard, spellbook, and terminology.

Truce?

*offers hand*

Can we set all the bad blood behind us and concentrate upon the Story?

Truce?

*offers hand*

Can we set all the bad blood behind us and concentrate upon the Story?

Tone down your assumption of superiority, and you have my agreement. Time is not the answer to all things, and on NS less so. Accept that, and we'll never have a problem again.

Ta'Nar think they Are superior. You are confusing IC attitude with OOC player.

Ta'Nar think they Are superior. You are confusing IC attitude with OOC player.

In my experience, your OOC justification for IC arrogance is just as arrogant as what you're doing IC. We'll use your argument thread to hash the rest of this, since I kinda told Telros I'd cut this out.

Thank you, MM.

Also, that thread, MM, is for future tech, I don't know if it can be used for fantasy ones? Bal?

If not, I can easily make one for that reason.

So I'm wondering what the majority tech of all of your nations are? FT? Fantasy? Also, is it a Council or a School? Both? I just think those things still need to be worked out.

Most people appear to be FT, although Sylvonia is 1940's tech, and I am essentially the same tech as LOTR. Also, at the moment, it appears to be a council and a school, yes.

Well Telros, it appears that we're the backwards nations in this one. Ah well, WWII era tech works just fine for my purposes (since I rarely use it anyway).

As for whether this is a school or a council, I think it's a bit of both. We're a place of learning, but if the need should arise where we need to form an actual army for something, I think we could do it. It would be hard, but possible.

Balrogga is definately an FT nation although I haven't used any of the FT with Galvenor other than possibly a shuttle to first arrive, I cannot remember it's been so long.



A question to ask Warhaven and others:

Do you want to have a school rivelry going on with a second school? I would take new characters from those that wished to participate and reopen the White Tower if enough wanted to do so.

I support getting a rival school running. I think we might be able to coordinate inter-school events such as tournaments or sporting events too so as to add to things. Besides, most of us can easily create another character to use or have our current ones travel from one school to another. Then again, I'm not very good with starting things so it might work to the better if we have someone who's been around longer throw some support and ideas at it.

I would like to have an IC reason to pull away and reopen the White Tower.

I also do not want to pull away any characters from here.

If enough people approve of the idea I will start it. I will look for your opinions here and I think we should both use this boards as the shared OOC Thread so we can work both IC threads without needing to switch between seperate Threads. It isn't like we would be hiding anything from the others seeing as players are going to be in both.

1)No problem with a complete list, Phenixica has about 5 Living Deities that they worship and 1 dead one. The 5 are more the personification of the 5 different tribes and the 1 dead one being the original Phoenix who gave birth to the other five and in turn they created the Phenixican race

2)We class ourselves as Mages, but Phenixicans are all magically attuned but being near technology hapers the ability to use it. Like on arcanum and how mage characters couldnt use technology without it exploding in there hands and naturally being weaker.

3)Fine, aslong as fire is :P

4) The mind conjures the magic, it is in our blood that our magic comes from.

5)Cool, but magic in Phenixica is simply different ways of manipulating Fire and some other elements (in rare cases)

6) teach the accepted universal standard to others.

This isn't to say any of these are the ONLY things one can do in Fantasy, but rather it establishes a loose universal standard any newcomer to the tech can look at, agree on, and follow. Anyone can have their own varience, and will obviously have their own private spellbook, and will likely do otherthings diffrent from the standard, which brings us to step seven:

7) establish the list of Varience: a list with a one post per nation one-shot, of how their nation varies from the universal Norm and other important things to be aware of. This could be a part of one's factbook we keep the link to, it could be a sheet of things one posts in the Varience thread, or maybe someone just decides to follow the universal standard. The point of this list, is to provide a handy quick refrence to how someone does something diffrently from the standard. Basically a factbook, except totally devoted to one concept.

So im fine with everything, I think it all looks pretty good.

EDIT: btw in WW1 tech, starting in FT soon but thinking of making 2 halves

I was also getting annoyed at 'who is better' i mean really,we all have our different areas. No one area is better then the other. some of you guys really need to stop trying to whip it out and duel with them.

I was also getting annoyed at 'who is better' i mean really,we all have our different areas. No one area is better then the other. some of you guys really need to stop trying to whip it out and duel with them.

Well that's stopped for the most part. There's a bit of arrogance here and there, but it's mostly stopped.

Thank you, MM.

Also, that thread, MM, is for future tech, I don't know if it can be used for fantasy ones? Bal?

If not, I can easily make one for that reason.

Bitchfest is a bitchfest so far as I'm concerned. We're both FT nations, even though it's not necessarily an argument pertaining to FT. It may be a thought to make a fantasy arguments thread though, if we really keep things going like this. Having a place to hash shit out can help, if people have the sense to understand the concept of a lofical fallacy. That defect has been the biggest flaw in the FT argument thread.

Very well, I will make a fantasy argument thread soon, and it shall be linked to this one so you all can go to it, for present and future problems. Also, Bal, if you want, the elves, mine in particular, could hear of the White Tower, and then talk with you during this break in the action that is occurring, and it could lead to Galvenor deciding to reopen it.

By the way, my tech level is PT/Fantasy, despite what my factbook says. (I'm currently planning on changing it around.)

Antanjyl's "Gods" (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10295018&postcount=1) Though its old and I'll probably edit some of them, they most likely won't change all too much. Though I'll probably be darkening them up a bit.

Sweet; in that case, feel free to interact more freely with my nation. I am also PT/Fantasy, and I didn't want the cultural exchange to happen seeing as most people are scifi and all that.

Sweet; in that case, feel free to interact more freely with my nation. I am also PT/Fantasy, and I didn't want the cultural exchange to happen seeing as most people are scifi and all that.

I object! I am not Sci-fi at all. I'm Fi, there is very little Sci about me. Infact most of my Sci would crumble in a humorous and entertaining manner if given even so much as a stern Glare!

All joking aside, I have PT capabilities, I have MT, (Jiralyn did say she was owner and CEO of Entropia LTD. It's on Earth, in The Entropic Isles.)
I have FT and PMT/NFT.
Clearly I have Fantasy.

I'm, I'm, I'm Omnitech!

So, you DO have a Fantasy/PT nation? You see, this is information I NEED. I thought you were only FT.

I only have one nation, but I can do many things. I can go so far back in time, as to have PHT (Prehistoric Tech) and have a group of Cavemen grunting in their caves if I so desired.

Most of my PT, is wrapped up in my Fantasy though. Infact Fantasy if the core makeup of my nation, everything else is secondary.

Mostly when I think PT, I think King Arthur and Avalon.

Very well. I have an intro thread up, with my world and nation, which will turn into some NPC plots over time, with help from Bal and maybe participation from him, so if you want to join, I can send you the thread.

Very well. Send, send away.

Here you are:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13571879#post13571879

Now, before I post, I have to make absolutly sure, is magic okay?

Yes, as long as you are fair and dont godmod with it, and don't do major things without asking me, yes.

Yes, as long as you are fair and dont godmod with it, and don't do major things without asking me, yes.

Me? Oh, no, not with the Character I plan on sending in. A Member of The Legions of The Knights of Doom. Beyond a simply Doomknight. Depending on how he's treated, will depend on if he helps the Orcs, or fights them. Make no mistake, Legionairs are not to be taken lightly, and while most of what they do is good old fashioned Physical Violence with in this particular case, a Mace (main weapon) a Longsword (secondary) and Crossbow (Ranged), It's their Demon Horses that are magical, plus if they Pray to The Darkness, they can sometimes get spells cast for them.

However it's mostly low key stuff.

Completly fits your requirements.

So, any idea of a timeframe on when we're going to be finished?
I ask because of one specific Reason: I'm going into a state of Civil War.
It all winds back to Destrudo's appearence at The Council. After he manages to leave the Void, he tries to whip The entirety of the Magekiller Clans (he is their leader after all) into attacking The Wizard's Council. Tajen, The Emporer, Gets wind of his plans, and not wanting things to turn ugly, he is a pretty reasonable man on most days, he appears and blocks their efforts.
Well, The clans don't trust each other, and they definatly don't like the Emporer, and so a brawl breaks out among all the leaders that boils into a full blown civil War.

Why this is any concern of yours: The Planetary shields will be completly erected making all transit to and from Riptide impossible, thus trapping you on Riptide, and inadvertantly involving you in Civil-War. Oh I've got more planned than what I've posted, but why spill all the details now?

No idea, just that we work out a viable structure, which appears to be mostly done as we have the rules set, and have established a way of punishing. Now we just need to make classes and teachers, and should be all set.

I've been keeping Yendor quiet because I don't know how serious you folks want to make things. Basically, the document that you're using for the group's "constitution" is missing some key parts:

* Powers of the Council.
* Method of Removal for the Council Executive
* Powers of the Executive
* Succession
* "National" Alignment/Governing Law

I don't know if this is intentional or not--and I might be wrong about this (I will admit that I haven't studied the council rules as closely as I should have)--so I'm keeping my flabby fingers from flapping--ICly at least.

Can someone help to remedy my confusion?

I am wondering if I can join your thread sometime during this week. I will be bringing a very old wizard to the council along with several others who will be representing my nation.

Notice: I have a fantasy nation, a future-tech nation, a real life tech and a steampunk nation.

Stench, after our IC lunch, bring those subjects up, at the very least the subject will be aired, and we'll see what happens from there.

Headhunters, while yes we have many posts, IC timewise, we've actually done very little. Come on in, the water's fine.

Sorry I haven't been around for the past couple days. A friend of the family passed away and I was needed elsewhere in RL.

What did everyone decide about wanting a rival school? What should I use as a IC reason to seperate myself from the Council here to form one?

I never heard anything from any others.

Shall we finish lunch and get back to the rules debate?

Ending lunch would be a good idea.

But Balrogga's questions are still unanswered.

I really don't care one way or the other, I'll do one, I'll do two. I cannot think like Galvenor, so I cannot imagine his reasoning.

Is this still open? Because if so, I'd like to introduce a monk-style character.

Oh and by the way, I was reading the list of elements you've got down so far and I think you've missed out Time. Of course, that may have been deliberate- if so, just ignore my ramblings.

We've had very little time pass ICly, and we just had another character enter. I'm pretty sure it's safe to join, though I hope I'm not circumventing Warhaven.

Personally, I'd rather that Time is not something messed with magic, because its confusing, and it can do things no one can stop without using magic with time as well.

You have to have time, because time is inseperably linked with Space, and without Spacial magic you can't have Teleportation, nor could anyone have gotten to Riptide without getting a starship and flying to it.

You have to have time, because time is inseperably linked with Space, and without Spacial magic you can't have Teleportation, nor could anyone have gotten to Riptide without getting a starship and flying to it.

And there you have the basis for deja fu: The martial art that gives you "The feeling that somehow, somewhere, you’ve been kicked in the head like this before."
Don't 'cha just love terry pratchett?

I am going to say this again, I don't care. I am against the use of time, I in fact despise the chrono technology in FT. It is quite easily to do the same and have them using dimensional technology. But the manipulation of time, no, hell no.

If you guys go ahead with it, fine, but I will remove myself from anything with that in it. As in the classes and stuff. I will still rp, but anything that involves chronomancy, I will not participate in.

I agree, Chronomancy is something that really is not needed, time travel can be used as a plot device by seeking out great artifacts instead of having Fred the Innept casting a spell.

I was just looking at the link to the offsite forum in Warhaven's sig- what happened to the old council?

The White Tower fell silent after many of the players moved on to other sites or to RL endevors.


I just made a post citing the reason Galvenor would strike out on his own starting a rival school. Please, if you want to join him, don't pull out of this Thread, instead making new characters for that one. I don't want to kill this one by opening a rival school. It would be better to have students in both if you wanted to.

I agree, Chronomancy is something that really is not needed, time travel can be used as a plot device by seeking out great artifacts instead of having Fred the Innept casting a spell.

But there is more to Chronomancy then simple time travel.

I thought I made myself clear. I do not like anyone messing with time, even a little bit. Why? Because they want to do something grander with it, more flashy, and it leads to things like time travel. It's an arena that is murky, and can lead to plenty of powergaming. No, I do not want to even try to climb that craggy peak.

Also, you may do technology stuff, but do not expect me to take notice of it in my posts, as I do not want that stuff filtering into my nation. I want to keep it at the level it is at.

I was trying to set an IC reason to start the second school, not suggesting you move this one.

Also, you may do technology stuff, but do not expect me to take notice of it in my posts, as I do not want that stuff filtering into my nation. I want to keep it at the level it is at.

What are you talking about, Magi-science, or science in general. Magi-science is the offspring of the union of magic and science, and is usable at any tech level, even low ones like PT, such as a self-reloading catapult that had been enchanted to always fire giant exploding fireballs of doom. I don't have any, and that is just an example, but you get the idea. If it's the nanites, you can't have them even if you wanted them, or I wanted to give them to you.

Isn't that the Artifacers and Enchanters domain?

The Artifacers build the devices and the Enchanters imbue them with magic.

Hey, wait up for me!

I've been on break from NS for about three weeks now due to RL stuffs, but I've returned. And of course as a FanT RPer, especially character based, and member of the White Tower, I would like to join in on this (sans the aggressive arguments).

Got me a character in mind that I am going to write up then introduce, hopefully in the next couple of hours - just got to finish reading the thread first.

I think I will join in as soon as you guys finish with lunch and get past this argueing about rival schools and such.

No Bal, there is more to Magi-science than the example I listed. Magi-science is an entire worldview.

Under Magic, Gravity has no bearing of any kind whatsoever. Its superstition more or less.

Under Science, Gravity is Law. Basically, What comes up, must come down.

Under Magiscience, it's niether. What goes up, must come down, unless an interveining force in some manner either supports or prevents said object from coming down.

---

Under Magic, a machine is no more complex than the miller's windmill, which even thin is relativly simple.

Under Science, Machines can be simple, but the more science one knows and understands, the more complex they tend to become. A windmill is simple, a computer is complex, especially with all that programming, a Nanite transcends complexity and enters an as of yet undefined new level complexity. Maybe hypercomplex.

Under Magi-science, Machines can be simple, all the way to the complex, and while indeed many things can be built by an artificer, and then enchanted by an enchanter, the more complex aspects cannot be duplicated by anything other than Magiscience, such as entire computer systems that have the ability to use magic. Not enchanted with magic, can use magic, like a normal mage can. Such things are usually programmed with entire spellbooks in their logic systems, not just a few spells.

----------

A mage usually does notinvestigate science too closely. Why should he, when he can wiggle his fingers and achieve the same effect?

A Scientist lacks the belief required to even begin to understand magic, believing only in what he can define and prove, which is why no scientist as of yet is able to prove God's existence, but that's a whole 'nother can of worms I choose not to open at this time.

A Magiscientist understands that science exists, and studies it closely, while studying his magic as well, and uses his magic to fuel some aspects of science that are normally impossible, likewise also using Science and the scientific process to further advance and understand his magic, as well as using the many laws, principles and theories to influence his magic in powerful new directions.

Bal, how's the idea of just setting up a rival school to provide competition and help further the education of both schools. Say we have slightly different classes at the White Tower so that if they wish to study there they could or they could study what we're offering. The sports and other things that we could offer as extra activities are another reason. Students can't really compete if they're from the same school. This way they compete to bring the prize to their school.

I think I will join in as soon as you guys finish with lunch and get past this argueing about rival schools and such.

We are finished with lunch, and rival schools is lookin like it'll become a prime fixture.

Basically, there's no better time than right now.

Your concept of Magi-science introduces technology into the RP that is not needed.

Where is a computer needed in a magical setting? Why would you need nanites in this setting? Where is anything like that needed in this proposed setting? If the players wanted that, they would have joined in an FT campaign, not a magical.

If you want a robot, make an animated statue and call it a Golom like in Dungeons and Dragons. They have iron, stone, flesh, doll, glass, crystal, and many others introduced as purely magical constructs based upon a FINELY CRAFTED object. Not any object will hold an enchantment and even if you had one that was quality enough, you would need the correct spells to include into the enchantment AND the initial spell required to create the enchanted state of the object you wanted to make.


If you use MT or FT stuff in the RP, it will potentually ruin the setting. I have what could be called extreme FT tech but not once do I even attempt to use it nor have I ever in a magical campaign unless it was required as part of the plot. The most I have done is for transportation to or from the place the RP was taking place (plot device).

You know, this is about the most fun arguing ICly I've ever had. So, we have a few basic guidelines, established schools, and punishment, and are now talking about funding. Anything we missed someone wants to mention ICly, or oocly, or should we draw up the offical format of the document, sign it, and call it a thread?

I say we have a thread for each school, a new one for the white tower, so that history may finally rest, and one for the the other school.

Keep this thread as the main ooc thread, and then after awhile, we can start doing other things, as in it's a major event that deserves it's own RP sort of thing, like the day the Magekillers attacked sort of thing.

Your concept of Magi-science introduces technology into the RP that is not needed.

Where is a computer needed in a magical setting? Why would you need nanites in this setting? Where is anything like that needed in this proposed setting? If the players wanted that, they would have joined in an FT campaign, not a magical.

If you want a robot, make an animated statue and call it a Golom like in Dungeons and Dragons. They have iron, stone, flesh, doll, glass, crystal, and many others introduced as purely magical constructs based upon a FINELY CRAFTED object. Not any object will hold an enchantment and even if you had one that was quality enough, you would need the correct spells to include into the enchantment AND the initial spell required to create the enchanted state of the object you wanted to make.


If you use MT or FT stuff in the RP, it will potentually ruin the setting. I have what could be called extreme FT tech but not once do I even attempt to use it nor have I ever in a magical campaign unless it was required as part of the plot. The most I have done is for transportation to or from the place the RP was taking place (plot device).

What part of example don't you get? I never said it had to be a computer, I simply said it was an entire diffrent way of looking at things.

Besides, did you even read the part where I said it could use magic, was not enchanted, but could use magic? Golems and enchanted golems are commonplace, but I have yet to seem something constructed that could think for itself and use magic as though it were human, or maybe even elven. in a fantasy setting that was not at one time already Human, or Elven, or some other commonly accepted race.

I used computers and nanites as an example because everyone knows what a computer is, and nanites are familier enough that I shouldn't have to explain too much what they are. Think outside the box, I'm not limited by what I use as an example. I only used what I did so others could get an idea of what I was driving at.

What is all this speak of advanced technology? I personally don't think it belongs with Fantasy at all.

I feel like I should hold off on my entrance until some things are sorted out.

Telros, I quote myself here when I say that Joshua said "but that would be troublesome with the economy." So, you may have missed it, but if you look at post 159, right after the gold crafting comment, you'll see an unedited sentence containing that bit of info. Also, Joshua is NOT human, as has been pointed out earlier.

And DMG, jump on in whenever you want. Part of joining in would be to help sort it out, unless you want to be like me and use MAGIC in the WIZARD'S council. Course, I don't want my tech in here at all so I'm ignoring that bit. Besides, what good would 1940 european tech do when there's magic around?

Warhaven, I'll have to agree. This is a fun IC argument.

Oh, I'd love to join in - I have my character all built up and I know where I want to go with it - but it seems like a few too many things are up in the air currently. I'm not sure anyone here actually knows what's going on. Yes, the necromancy is a valid and even good debate to have ICly. It shows differences and is simply an important point in dealing with magic. However, there are a bunch of things that are just... "huh?"

-Are there going to be two schools or one? Bal tried to make a reason for the second one and then Warhaven shot it down (albeit saying, "But go ahead, create a new one.")
-Technology blitz? wtf? When did magic fantasy become "bring in anything you want, it'll work"?
-Is time magic in or out?
-The school can move wherever it wants...
-Economics? Yes, it's true that if everyone just created gold it would become worthless (as gold itself as very little inherent value) and the currency based economy would crumble, but you can easily get around that by saying that gold is enchanted so that it can't be created (like how it works IRL. I could take a piece of paper and draw the dollar on it, but nobody would accept it because its obviously fake). However, a more valid point, I believe, is why would wizards even want gold/money? By the looks of it, these people can create pretty much anything they want either by snapping their finger or molding it out of sand and rearranging the molecular structure or whatever. Which brings me to my next point...
-Like so many RPs, especially fantasy ones, a few people in this are quickly turning it into let's see if I can create the biggest, most badass, unbeatable character or thing. Besides being boring and overdone, that's the bane of any RP. Try giving your characters/creations flaws or weaknesses. Even if they want to be tough guys ICly, that doesn't mean they should be OOCly near-perfect.
-Finally, and perhaps most importantly, have we [you guys] settled on what this even is yet? Is it a council? A school? A world? A remake of the White Tower?

Let me try to answer some of these. I can't get them all, but I can get some, hopefully most.

-Are there going to be two schools or one? Bal tried to make a reason for the second one and then Warhaven shot it down (albeit saying, "But go ahead, create a new one.")
~We're going to have 2 schools it sounds like, so we can have competition and such between them. It would make for something more interesting and something more to RP later on.

-Technology blitz? wtf? When did magic fantasy become "bring in anything you want, it'll work"?
~I'm staying out of the technology seeing as it's the WIZARD'S council, not the MAGISCIENTIST'S council.

-The school can move wherever it wants...
~Cara moved it to demonstrate that it would be safe.

-Economics? Yes, it's true that if everyone just created gold it would become worthless (as gold itself as very little inherent value) and the currency based economy would crumble, but you can easily get around that by saying that gold is enchanted so that it can't be created (like how it works IRL. I could take a piece of paper and draw the dollar on it, but nobody would accept it because its obviously fake). However, a more valid point, I believe, is why would wizards even want gold/money? By the looks of it, these people can create pretty much anything they want either by snapping their finger or molding it out of sand and rearranging the molecular structure or whatever. Which brings me to my next point...
~Damn, why didn't you bring this up BEFORE?

-Like so many RPs, especially fantasy ones, a few people in this are quickly turning it into let's see if I can create the biggest, most badass, unbeatable character or thing. Besides being boring and overdone, that's the bane of any RP. Try giving your characters/creations flaws or weaknesses. Even if they want to be tough guys ICly, that doesn't mean they should be OOCly near-perfect.
~Good point, this is something we should all work on.

-Finally, and perhaps most importantly, have we [you guys] settled on what this even is yet? Is it a council? A school? A world? A remake of the White Tower?
~The White Tower is the rival school, so this isn't a remake of it. We don't have a school name yet (WH, there's something we need to work on), and Riptide is merely the planet we're on. Or were on, I lost track. It was originally going to be a council to give a general way of working magic, but various people pushed it into being a school. Personally I like the educational idea, but it'd be nice to see an actual council generally governing magic get formed. As for a world (as I touched on with Riptide), I'm not sure.

And that should be all except one or two.

Would it be too late for me to send an epileptic wizard called Ian Berezovsky? He's a technophobe type because of some past incident he had with an steam engine, so he won't bring any 1800s Industrial Revolution or Steampunk technology with him. Like I mentioned once, in Soviet Steam, you either have, regarding technology or magic, a sort of incompetent and unreliable "Jack of all trades, master of none" like my other character Yelena who always fail with teleport spells, or someone fully dedicated to one of them because both require studies and alike, and because they are sort of incompatible. Boris is the latter. Regarding his college of magic, it would be interesting to have it as Necromantic: Black (http://www.gamebanshee.com/arcanum/spellcolleges/necromanticblack.php) specialist, there are reasons for him to have chosen it. And he'll have a drink for Orc proletariat in the World of Arcanum against the Gnomish bourgeoisie. Where like in Soviet Steam, there is a Magic vs. Technology conflict.

Alright, I might as well toss all my cards on the table for the hell of it...

[DISCLAIMER: This was written from two to three in the morning, so I am sorry if it doesn't make sense, has spelling errors, rambles, or attacks people. My point here was not to attack people, but rather to highlight what I thought were some important issues. Also, if you don't agree with certain opinion parts, that's fine, that's just the way it is. I am sure I have more to write, but I'm done for now. One final note, I am sure there are easy or quick answers to some of these examples or points, I can think of many responses myself (and then the responses to those in turn), but I didn't feel like writing out the full debate. Try to look at the bigger pictures I am highlighting. And sorry that some of it does not pertain to specifics of the thread, but rather the forecasts for the future of any thread.]

1) Two Schools ~ Good idea in concept, shaky and delicate in practice. I know originally a second school was proposed because there were some OOC debates going on about who was going to run this one (though at the time I don't even think the idea here was considered a school). However, most of those OOC flame debates seem to have died down - though I do doubt that the underlying feelings have disappeared - so the idea to create a second school was maintained under the purpose of creating competition. Two schools, people could RP in either or both, and then there would be competitions between the two. Interesting idea, but I see a certain failing here. It's hard enough as it is to keep one magic school open, so keeping them both going would be highly dependent on the same people participating in both and the competition being a big success. Only problem is, this type of "competition" between two schools as it is proposed doesn't seem like it will last long. What, there will be duels, some sports, a couple of scavenger hunts? Maybe you get through one of them, but personally, I think that'll die. I'll reiterate because I've rambled... the competition and thus the threads will die. They become boring, repetitive, tiring, and they flop. However, if you really want a "competition" between two schools, I would suggest real competition: a school for good wizards (like this one seems to be) and one for the bad wizards. There was the White Tower and at times there existed the Black Tower where all the evil people were. Then the competitions are real. Real battles, not just duels, real penalties, real things to gain. Then it becomes more like an RP and less like Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire. However, even then I have my reservations.

2) The White Tower ~ In my mind, there are a few reasons why the White Tower was immensely successful and most school threads die relatively quickly (I've been in quite a few of those). Some of these things that made WT successful this new school seems to have, and others not so much.
--(a) Leadership: While most people were free to be teachers or take other rolls of importance/power, there were always a couple of guiding voices. They had important characters that ran the school or directed the plot and they also RPed lots of NPCs. What any good thread needs is leadership, and so far it isn't clear what's going on here. MM seems (seemed?) concerned about certain people running it. WH said he didn't actually want to. C'tan hasn't responded to his nomination really (idt). And then there is this notion of splintering into two schools (even if people participate in both). To make that work, where two schools coexist in different threads (or even the same thread - which would be hectic as heck), and depend on each other for competition, etc. We need leaders that will coordinate and work together to make the RPs, competitions, whateva... well, work.
--(b) Less Structure: Yes, usually the more structure and definition, the better and smoother an RP goes, but the problem with school RPs is that they aren't over structured. I don't think we have fallen into that trap yet (e.g. schedules), but I do see small signs of it. One reason the White Tower (at least when I was apart of it) worked as a school was because there were no "official classes." There were no class listings, or groups of twenty students learning in a room. If your character wanted to learn something, he would find one of the school's numerous teachers/wizards and ask to be taught. You could ask any subject, any specifics, anything. Formal classes never work for so many reasons. I'd say freeform schooling is better.
-----(i) I thought the issue about gold, the economy, and paying teachers was very interesting. It's one that I've addressed in past school RPs that I have done. However, sometimes I think it is better to leave well enough alone. Simply ignore it. As purported, this is not an alliance or any type of transnational or international body... it's just a school. You don't need to get bogged down in this type of little detail. Explain it away by saying the gold coins are enchanted so that you can't reproduce them without proper authority, but don't get into the nitty gritty (unless its an IC RP Plotline). Maybe teachers will just teach at the school because they can and they want too. What else does a powerful wizard really need? A few more shekels? I think not.
--(c) Plots: Even though the White Tower was mostly a school, there were plot-lines that would enter, be RPed out, and then go on their way to be replaced by a return to normality and then more plots. This somewhat ties in with leadership as it was the leaders who often brought those plots, but a school of pure teacher-student interaction will die out. Once in a while you need to energize it with some outside threat, quest, character, or what have you (this may even be where the other school comes in if it were Good versus Evil). True, the Behemoth in the beginning was kind of random and didn't serve much purpose, but you're going to need things like that (hopefully that are a little longer and more interesting) to keep things new, fun, and interesting.
--(d) Ease of Entrance: I don't there is going to be a problem with this, but one of the things that helped the White Tower last for literally, years, as an RP is that new people kept coming in. That is, both new characters and new RPers could easily enter to replace old ones that die or stop posting. A new nation wants in, let 'em. A new character wants to teach, let 'em. New blood helps the old blood stay fresh.

3) Technology ~ Seriously, what the hell is going on? I realize that I am a bit of a fantasy purist - (I believe magic and technology don't really mix. If magic is involved, technology shouldn't really pass steam power. Maybe, maybe early 20th century at the most. If technology is modern or postmodern, then I think you should acknowledge it exists, but not truly include it. I don't really see future tech and fantasy coexisting - that is just too much wankery and imagination to me. "What about Star Wars?" you say. Personally, I don't see the Force as the same category as high fantasy and magic, but even if I did cede that point, I would focus on either the galactic aspect that involves technology or the character aspect that involves the force. Enuf said. I don't like mixing tech with magic.) - but this just seems to be spiraling out of control.
---(a) I can understand that if you are using a character from your FT nation, you might bring them to the planet in a spaceship (as I recall someone in White Tower doing), but why make their future technology a main focus or aspect of their existence here? It just detracts from the RP and the real focus of this which is magic. It's about wizardry, which last time I checked is magic. The whole magicscience or magictech debate, combining the two things, is a bit far out there for me. As someone previously said, if you want to imbue a metal suit of armor (or a golem) with magic, making it capable of fighting... fine. If you want to imbue a series of computers with magic so they are fully sentient and can themselves cast magic... well that's just nuts. I'm all for being creative, but there has to be a line where you say, "No, this is about magic. Not about your super robot that can kill our giant enemy." I am willing to wave my hands and ignore that somehow our characters come from societies where one has the ability to destroy a world with the push of a button and the other is learning that marching in a line is no longer effective in combat (and no information crosses to the other society), but I'd only wave my hands so much. You can justify ignoring or skipping over that someone arrived in a spacecraft, you can't exactly just ignore that someone is walking around with a nuclear warhead, has a mech parked out front, and keeps babbling on about their cool new laser gun.
--(b) There is also just the logical issue here. Technology is based in science, even theoretical or questionable science, meaning that you have to be able to explain why something happens, why technology works the way it does. Magic, however, does not require logic or explanation. How did I create matter out of thin air? I just did. I snapped my fingers and a pumpkin pie appeared in front of me. So, in the debate of technology or science versus magic, which wins? I'd have to say in theory that magic always wins as there is no logic behind it or constraints on it, but then that is the point isn't it. IT'S FRICKING MAGIC. Magic is essentially accepted God Modding.
--(c) Then there is an issue of IC logic, which is merely a point of interest that someone once made and I thought was interesting. Because of the previous point about magic trumping technology, a society would have little reason to develop technology. Why improve farming technologies when you can snap your fingers and create a banquet? Why create cars and spaceships if you can fly or teleport to another planet? Why create guns or lasers if you can create energy pulses or explosions with your hands? Simply put, there would have to be a logical (even if its not rationale) reason for a society to exist with high technology and magic. For the hell of it, I'll list some responses that I see as valid: i) magic was newly founded after all of the technology was developed (but you still have to explain why magic suddenly came about); ii) magic is rare and all but a few still have to live life as if there was none; iii) your specific magic system doesn't allow spells that would be useful in replacing technology; iv) you have some religion that forbids the use of magic and coming here to the school was an affront to that.

4) Personal Pet Peeve ~ This is just a general statement about the RP. Personally, I hate when people make references to real life ICly, especially in fantasy worlds where these things don't even exist. I can forgive it in modern tech where conceivably real life nations could exist (not to mention that a lot of people use real life military technology), but in fantasy? Not even in a fantasy world would our modern society exist in a NationStates fantasy world. References to George Bush, the Tsar Bomba, and the like <--- Things that annoy me.

5) My Character is... is Superman ~ Inevitably in any character RP, ESPECIALLY fantasy ones, there are characters or "things" that or inanely and unnecessarily powerful. Warhaven has already admitted that his creation of Kajeenth ruined the White Tower by forcing others out (though I see he has made a couple of appearances here), but even a character not as powerful as Kajeenth can ruin things. Characters, people in general, are innately flawed and have weaknesses. Maybe your character has weak mental barriers against psionics, maybe your character can use powerful spells but only at a great personal cost, maybe your character knows a lot but is scared and thus unable to use that knowledge, maybe your character is easily tempted or tricked or manipulated. RPing is about writing a story, it's the main point. That is not to say that you must or even should conduct your characters to intentionally make the best story (like when James Bond is guarded by a single, stupid agent in an unlocked room), but rather that there must be a balance to all things in a story. Every movie, every book, every story in which there are powerful elements at work, there is eventually a way to overcome them. Good or evil, there has to be the POTENTIAL for failure, for loss. Try making a character that has an interesting personality or like or specialty rather than making an all around powerful character. But this also doesn't just apply to characters. Things like a universal spell book that has every and all the most powerful spells just take up room for growth and stories. So yes WH said that only the person who had retrieved it could read the spells and if someone wanted to climb once-it-called mountain to get it them-self, they could. But then why have anyone start with it in the first place. Better for it to just be a myth that someone might want to start a plot line about. Giving a character the wand that can't be defeated is the same, for all intents and purposes, as making them Superman. Starting people at the top kills growth, which is at the heart of any story.

6) Alright, He's Not. But his NAME is Superman ~ Related to the point above. So you create a character who seems pretty powerful and then comes into the thread and proceeds to pick a fight. When confronted OOCly about it you say, but that's just ICly that he is saying it, he isn't really Level 100, he's just Level 97. Great, so instead of five Supermans running around, we have five arrogant guys who insist that they are Superman. It seems to happen a lot. It is the step down from creating the most powerful character. We say, "Okay, I'm not going to GM and make him all powerful. BUT! He is going to be pretty powerful." And then we get into the RP and we meet someone else that had the same subconscious thought process, but hell, "Nobody gets to be more powerful than me, right?" So my guy starts bumping chests and then we refuse to back down and admit the possibility of not being the ubermensch. The point being is this: Just because we have agreed not to make our characters all living Gods, doesn't mean we've accomplished anything. Everyone going into the thread and proclaiming their divinity is just as bad. Sure one character might be an arrogant prick, or even two, but some people can try being passive aggressive, or being even more arrogant (yes, more) and dismissing another's claim rather than confronting it, or maybe accepting it to be true, or even not caring, or maybe silently confident in one's self. Basically, everyone doesn't have to have brass balls.
--(a) Similar point to 5 & 6: Take this example where we can theoretically quantify everyone's character's power/strength/ability/whateva into a number. Obviously, nobody can be Level 100 because that is GMing, which isn't allowed. So everybody tones it down a little bit and makes there character Level 90. But hell, the point of forbidding Level 100 was that it would kill any story in which there was no possibility of loss/failure, so if everyone is Level 90, the same applies. Stalemate. Nobody can touch anybody else. So everyone agrees to lower again, and everyone settles on 80... etc. etc. Point being that just because we've agreed not to GM, doesn't mean we've accomplished anything for the RP.

7) Back to the RP at Hand and on to some Specifics ~ These can be IC debates as much as they are OOC debates, but I think some things need to be clarified.
--(a) Council: Do we want a council that runs the school or just a headmaster and his underlings? If the former, are there senior members, a head member, members that administer certain things, or is everything equal and composed of a council of peers? Do we want a council of equality or near equality ICly, but one or two people OOCly administering and guiding this thing? Or even ICly do we want one or two people guiding it with plot-lines and the like?
--(b) Right and Wrong: Are we going to set a list of what is banished (as voted on or established by some council or headmaster)? The likes of forbidden magic is very broad and defined differently in many societies. To some there is none, some despise necromancy or maybe just certain spells, some embrace everything as knowledge but refuse to use some of it, some would ban any magic used for attacks or misdeeds. Where is the line? The White Tower, I know at least in its later years, forbade necromancy of any kind to be learned (a necromancer was banished as he attempted to enter if I remember correctly). Some say magic has no inherent color, i.e. that what makes it good or bad, right or wrong, acceptable or forbidden is how we use it.
--(c) Students: I know we are definitely, extremely, exceptionally in the beginning phase of this, but as this was conceived as a Council, it only really invited powerful wizards. Sure the message was addressed to whoever wanted it, but no eight year old who just learned how to make fire was going to follow it. When this does begin as a school, people here will have to bring in students... that is unless you think we can get enough others to join as well, which I doubt it, especially not for any extended time (in fact I highly doubt all the people who have posted here will be here next week still posting). Most characters in the White Tower were in fact students, while the two, three, or four leaders of the thread controlled their main characters as well as teachers. So seeing as this started with ten or so powerful characters, something will need to be done so that people aren't sitting idly by. Need lots of students or something for teachers to do.
--(d) Systems: Perhaps one of the most important aspects of everything here is what this was originally, seemingly intended for - to create some semblance of unification for understanding magic. A single codex if you will for magic. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem likely, possible, or even what people want. However, there is no doubting that some conflicts will arise from interactions of different systems. If your system says fire is the opposite of wind and mine says fire is the opposite of water, what happens when my fire meets your wind? That may be an oversimplification or even something that is easily agreed upon (such as defining water and fire as being opposing elements), but I am sure there are some other issues that will arise. As an example mentioned previously in this thread, what about the issue of time magic? Some say it must exist, others say ignore it. And even that may be an over simplification or extreme example. Essentially, what if two logically conflicting things occur, creating some paradox like when the unstoppable force meets the immovable object (just on a lower scale). Are we going to try to standardize things? Because I have seen resistance to that, especially considering how this began with characters from nations (thus bringing their national/societal magic system with them).

[*8 Cents*]

*reads DMG's points*

As for Miceland, I think they were in the Magic Sorcery but... I've developed the nation abit more since then. As for Magic/Tech ... I've been thinking about this...

In terms of Magic... the only real difference between the mice and a "Artificer" as defined by Eberron in DnD is that the item created, in this case the teleporter, can actually interact with the magic it's infused with. In this case direct the destination.

It may look like something from a sci-fi because it is functionally equivalent to it. As for most student's they wouldn't have anything like this... perhaps an amulet , wand or other such standard Fantasy fair.

As for IC Logic in terms of Miceland we can't actually "cast spells" but they can much like the artificer infuse items with magical energy. Magic to them is very analogous to a standard tech energy source. Whether steam ,electricity, nuclear or other similiar power, and the magic devices equate to the "technology".

Though "Higher Tech" devices are going to be rare perhaps down-right exotic. DnD has a number of Teleportation and mount summoning spells so I can't see why adoption of the same basic principles can't be applied to artifacting.

My opinions are only my own and I will be taking them to wherever I go.

No technology. If I wanted it I would have joined a FT thread.

Wizard's Gold is highly unstable and short-lived at best. It is also easily dispellable and most shopkeepers would have something to check. They would have something to ensure they are not given a coin that will evaporate or turn into turkey gizzards later after the customer left. The RL version are the little markers stores have to check the paper currency. Conjured spell compoante have no value so real stuff must be gathered. Besides, that would be an adventure to secure those fresh ingredients instead of buying some at the store or conjuring them out of thin air.

I do agree the economy will take a back seat and be rarely mentioned in the Thread. In the White Tower I had Galvenor sitting up at nights sometimes working on the books. That is all the mention of economics because the players were there to run their characters, not to have bake sales.

Black Necromancy will not be at the White Tower as far as I know. Healing will even though it is technically also Necromancy. In this matter there is only Black and White, no greys in between.

Players who are teachers should also have characters that are students. Start them out at the most basic level and roll play them slowly over the years to gain those powers. I will be using Galvenor to bestow a sense of continuality but I also plan on running a couple students myself.

That is enough rambling for the moment. I have to get back to work.

--(b) Less Structure: .....If your character wanted to learn something, he would find one of the school's numerous teachers/wizards and ask to be taught. You could ask any subject, any specifics, anything. Formal classes never work for so many reasons. I'd say freeform schooling is better.


Sounds like making it a University type institution would be more appropriate then..
Which actually, I think would be much better for rp purposes..

I had only mentioned funding to head off any future complaints that even though we were wizards we still needed some method of support, and thought the Storefront idea might be a nice backround defence.

Secondly, Again, Magiscience just isn't about technology, but clearly it's too complicated a subject.

Third, I had mentioned necromancy through Cara and the Tome deliberatly to see what reactions to it might be. I can see both sides of the argument, and perhaps the powers of life and death should be left out altogether.

fourth, that's it, I'm done. I'm sorry I even tried. Clearly this was a bad idea from the start. Silly me, I thought maybe people could work together to form common ground. Now I can see only fools would think such a thing. I will place the castle on a world far from my worlds in normal space, and leave, taking my artifacts with me, and if anyone ever dares to approach me ICly with anything arcane, I will kill and destroy them immediatly on the spot without question.

Good thing nobody took my points personally, but rather as constructive criticism to make the RP better...

Geez, overreacting much, WH?

Edit: Now that I see what you have done, I must say you are being pathetic. Oh, I'm sorry, we didn't all sip tea, play nice, and calmly just make a council for you, so we can just go into a bloody civil war that involves us, which was OBVIOUS you kept trying to rush us towards. And now, spurned because we *gasp* are arguing over the approaches to certain things, which HAPPENS, you get all pissy and run away, saying you'll kill anything that is arcane that comes to you.

How pathetic, how childish. Go have fun in your sandbox.

Please, there is no reason for everyone to fly off the handle.

Is it because I RPed the split we have been talking about and was mentioned a few posts back as being something we were going to do?

I thought that was agreed upon already and with the upcomming "lockdown" it had to happen right away or that would ruin the whole split and second school thing.

I am thinking it had more to do with my explanative rant.

I say start up the OOC thread for the "second school" or "new school" (whatever you want to call it). If WH wants to retract killing this thread, then so be it, but one way or another we might as well get that going. And maybe this time starting with the OOC rather than the IC will enable it to work.

Telros is right. You sent Behemoth into our midst and expected us to fight it, we used our own styles and we won, if temporarily. You brought people from all over and all races together and you expect them to work entirely peacefully!? Not going to happen! We all brought our views and we all actually made PROGRESS, even if it was slow. It would have been entirely possible for you to have Cara say "We'll figure out the budget later, let's move on." and that would have been the end of it. Just because you didn't like how slow we were going or what we were doing or whatever it was that drove you to just WALK AWAY from an RP that may have actually been more interesting once we stopped working things out and moved on to better things doesn't mean you need to act like a child that isn't getting it's favorite candy.

WH, I'm not trying to flame you (though it may seem that way), I'm just mad that you gave up on something that could have been great once we got out of politics and into more action.

Good thing nobody took my points personally, but rather as constructive criticism to make the RP better...

As of yet, I have not.

Geez, overreacting much, WH?

I'm sick of the OOC arguing, I'm sick of being told a simple idea is impossible when really it's not, I'm sick of everyone dragging their feet through the mud and dragging everything out to the point it becomes work instead of something relaxing and fun, and I'm tired of having my original point ignored. I'm positivly sick of it, why should I even try anymore? Why do I even bother staying on these forums? all I wanted was common ground so that maybe Fantasy could become as widely accepted as FT and Fantasy, which was why I had posted that list of things to establish a common ground with, like having a character know Common and Elven. Everyone knows common, its how everyone knows and understands each other, but that doesn't mean elves can't speak elven, or dwarves can't speak dwarven or don't speak it predominantly, it was the same with the list, it was a sort of new language, a new methodology, established by us, for us. a sort of universal system. I was going to go so far afterwards, as to vow to stick completly to the universal system.

Of course no one wants to be exactly like everyone else, which was why I had the seventh part, an OOC not for use ICly, unless one had permission of the poster, list of how each one of us was diffrent.

MT and FT are popular, because science is a universal thing, it only has one methodology, and each law and principle and theory is like a spell. Of course they might change, like a wizard might fine tune a spell to make it work better, but with Fantasy there are so many systems and variables that it's completly stupid. Its no wonder nothing ever lasts in fantasy, the systems can't work together, because they each have their impossibilities so diffrent.

At least going from ST to SW, you have a sort of underlying common ground, hyperspace could just as easily be termed Warp, or maybe transwarp depending on the situation. At least with all the different FT resources, one has moderen science to interpret them with, and with such, can quickly establish common ground. you can't do that with Fantasy. In D&D for instance, Fireball is a spell low level people can't cast, yet in another system it's about as basic as Magic missle. And even still, in one system you can't left more than a few pounds of weight, but in another, so long as you had the power to do it, you could left a bulldozer if you so chose. Now imagine if these two interacted, half the time they'd be calling godmod on each other simply for following their own systems, each of which is fine on it's own, but is unfit for interaction.

But even still, all that I could take, I could handle, but what really inspired me to call it quits and leave, was when you and balrogga left. It became abundantly clear then that the ship was sinking, and I will not stay onboard a sinking ship and try to save.

I didn't leave because I was UNHAPPY WITH THE BLOODY THREAD! I "left" because my CHARACTER doesn't like NECROMANCY, and it would be OOC to keep her there! I thought I made it obvious with how she reacted.

Fine, I will delete my post, and I will take a small vacation away from everything, leaving bal in charge. I didn't want the lead anyway, so it doesn't matter if I take a break from unreality. Go ahead and do whatever you want, and after May the 25th, I will return to NS.

Galvenor left because we OOCly agreed there would be a second school and if he didn't then he would not be able to leave due to the lock down. It was a planned event that everyon e knew was going to happen.

Well, I'll give you one thing, this shouldn't be work, it should be fun. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't require a little bit of work to make it fun.

All I wanted was common ground so that maybe Fantasy could become as widely accepted as FT

And that's a great sentiment. I would love if fantasy was as widely accepted and RPed as MT and FT because I very enjoy it very much. In fact, I tend to think that fantasy character RPs leave a bigger window to make a more interesting RP than do MT character RPs. However, the problem incurred here is that this Fantasy started blending every other tech possible. Instead of Fantasy and magic, it became fantasy, magic, future, post-modern, modern, past, WWII, industrial, pre-civilization, etc. If you want to make it like MT or FT, you have to keep it contained within itself for the most part.

Everyone knows common... but that doesn't mean elves can't speak elven... it was the same with the list.

Unfortunately, that analogy breaks down rather quickly. There is a VAST difference between cultures with separate languages and cultures with separate magic systems. Languages, unlike magic systems or technology, can't conflict with one another. In fact, they DON'T interact with one another. There is no progress, development, advancement that makes language any better, more powerful, or easier than it was previously. Magic, on the other hand, is a system that affects reality not communication. It'd be like playing soccer with each team having to play by different sets of rules. A single unified system is fine for a single RP, but not when you invite people from different societies to a council. Just think about if you did that IRL with different notions of magic. Suppose you told the makers of DnD, Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, etc. to unify their systems....

With Fantasy there are so many systems and variables that it's completly stupid.

Last time I checked (which was about five minutes ago), there are different systems for future tech to. One person uses star wars tech, another uses battle star galactica, or stargate. In the important parts, they are very different. But you find ways to make them work in an RP together... you don't have to boil everything down so that you say two missiles in BSG equals one missile in SW... you just write the story. That's what fantasy is about... You're not shooting bullets at each other, you're writing out what a spell does, describing it and its potency, and the other person replies. It's give and take.

Its no wonder nothing ever lasts in fantasy

Oh, brilliant point. It's not like the White Tower lasted for years... or a series of RPs in the NationStates forum I was in called Clash of the Gods lasted for over 8000 posts (and continuing).

At least going from ST to SW, you have a sort of underlying common ground, hyperspace could just as easily be termed Warp

It could be termed as such, but it'd be wrong. There are conflicts when any two systems interact. In SW you can prevent FTL travel with gravity wells, meaning it's hard to invade the heart of another nation, but in numerous others you can just warp there or use a wormhole. In some FTs you can phase into another dimension, in SW that'd be ridiculous. Hell, some FTs like BSG wouldn't even allow energy shields.

In fantasy, it's all about how you write it. Generally, and very surprisingly, people aren't calling GM with every spell. As long as you aren't purporting to cause devastation on a global scale, people will accept a fireball as either an advanced attack or a basic skill. It's all about the power in it. If I claim a fireball that could destroy the planet, it doesn't matter what system you're using, people won't accept it, but otherwise, I doubt people will care that much.

But see, this here was what I was talking about before. Obviously, not everyone knew or agreed with what was going on OOCly. About a billion times it has been mentioned that Balrogga/Galvenor was creating a second school, and yet...

Personally, if you leave for the next month and a half, we may as well just start over fresh.

And this is why it's a good idea to listen to the guy with experience. Who suggested that we take over, and that he NOT be in the position of power? Righto, now I suggest, having some bit of experience with such, that we move posthaste unto the white tower, and make our mark there, without bitching about anything other than necromancy and classes.

Whatever. I'm done making points, done arguing, done pointing out flaws.

I want to participate in a White Tower revisited thread, I am just waiting for something to begin. Once a thread is started ICly, my character will arrive.

Here is the link to the second school:

The White Tower--- revisiting the Greatest College of Magic (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=554181)

Someone take over the first school. I am concentrating on the White Tower.

It will be more fun if there are two, not just one.

Please?

I can take care of it, there's another character I can call up. I have stuff to do right now and then I'll come back and call for another character to help. Should I take over Warhaven's characters too? Cara seems pretty necessary and so I think someone should.

Someone take over the first school. I am concentrating on the White Tower.

It will be more fun if there are two, not just one.

Please?

What's involved in this?

(I envision the two schools as having slightly different purposes--the First School would be more high-and-mighty stuff, while the Second School would be more folksy. That's why I sent Yendor to the First School and Marvel to the Second School.)

Which is first and which is second?

(I am just going to concentrate on the White Tower, for now at least.)

Wizards Council is First and White Tower is Second.

BTW, please forgive the little prank that Marve just pulled. He can't help himself. He's a demon. :) :) :)

Hey!

Mine was set up First...

Hehehehe

Seriously, each school should follow their own direction and let the participants decide what happens and the people running it keep things going. That worked in the White Tower for a long time.

Ok, so what gives? I was under the impression that we were supposed to keep this going too because we wanted two schools going. Are we abandoning the Council for the Tower or should we keep this up too?