NationStates Jolt Archive

Sango Air Defense, Inc Sango-12 Fighter plane

Type: Muilti-Role Aircraft

Length: 70 feet

Wingspan: 50 feet

Engine: two Bankuian Tech thrust vectoring engines

Speed: Mach 1.6

Wing area: 666 ft² (61.87 m²)

Range: 3,300 km (2,050 mi)

Guns: 33 mm

Missiles, 12 Hardpoints, uses The Shark Anti-Aircraft Missile and Wolfeel-78 Anti-Shipping Missile.

other names: S-12, F/A-14 Enforcer (Cazelian name for the Plane), "Filly NATO call Name: FireCoral

Role: Ground Attack Strike fighter
Intercepter
Anti-Shipping
Air Superiority
Recon

a Forward-swept wing Plane, this fighter was made for takeing Control of the Air and to fight enemy Shipping.

a Muilti Role Aircraft, it is made not only as a Air Superiority/Intercepter Fighter Craft, but also good for Ground attack and Anti-shipping roles. This aircraft is good for what Job that may be done.

Some points, I done a few aircraft. You probably need several more statistics in there. Some of the ones I noticed off hand:

You need wieght limits on your pylons, aircraft weight, fuel weight, max take off wieght. Wieght is as much an important part of the craft's capabilities as its weaponry.
For speed you should probably include cruise, supercruise, and stall speed at least.
For weapons I would recommend a smaller main gun (between 20-30mm) recoil on the 40 is killer especially if its a rapid firing weapon, and spent shells could damage the fighter.
A maximum operational altitude is also a pretty important stat to include on these things.

Surely Hataria you mean the Sukhoi Su-47.

Bump, planning to sale this.

I would think that you would need more statistics like SaintB said before selling it. Nobody knows how much the thing weighs, etc. Also, you should explain what you mean by Bankuian Tech thrust vectoring engines.

Put this on draftroom

Also, you should explain what you mean by Bankuian Tech thrust vectoring engines.

The Bankuian Tech thing is the name of the maker of the Engines.

http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom

^Draftroom^
Post it there...

http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom

^Draftroom^
Post it there...

I don't have to post it in the Draftroom if I don't want to, and I Don't want to.

It will get reviewed by peers there...

Surely Hataria you mean the Sukhoi Su-47.

You people are too fast for me. It is a truncation of the Su-47 stats.

Of course the Su-47 has extremely high agility at low speeds due to its forward swept wings and its thrust vectoring engine. But it only has a maximum speed of Mach 1.6. Therefore I recommend at least reclassify it where it belongs, as a Strike Fighter, a ground attack craft first and foremost where its high agility and lots of hardpoints pay off.

In low altitude attack missions, air superiority fighters will find themselves stymied by thicker air and the extreme agility the Su-47 offers will be able to outmaneuver the more advanced planes to escape or to kill its target.

Another reason is that air superiority fighters and interceptors on NS can regularly pass Mach 2, and in the case of several of my interceptors, offer Mach 4 interceptions.

Couple of suggestions for you, TRBI. Firstly- its the SU-47. I would advise that it stops being the SU-47, and starts being an original design. If this is a problem, then my second piece of advice is to give more statistics. See SaintB's post. Also, a write-up would be good. Give us as much detail as you can. A picture would be nice as well. Thirdly, NSDraft is your friend. I know its made up of Havenite elitists and a couple of other guys, but they do know a thing or two that you can benefit from. And, right now, its a SU-47 knock-off, which frankly doesn't make me want to buy it.

It will get reviewed by peers there...
ooc: And that is precisely why he won't post it there, he's never been good at accepting that his designs are flawed.

I think leafy there had some point...

An air superiority craft needs to at least keep up with the enemy plane.
Both via altitude and airspeed.
Otherwise it'll have nearly the exact same faults as the A6M.

Including the tendancy for the wings to warp and twist into a spin during a high-speed dive...

As an interceptor, it should at least be able to outrun whatever gets near its airspace.

So, yeah, it's a tight-turning precision ground-pounder... (A-10/Su-25 replacement?)
And there are better dive-bombers out there...

ooc: And that is precisely why he won't post it there, he's never been good at accepting that his designs are flawed.

Or that they are copy pastes from wiki...

This is a minor copy and paste edit job from wiki:


Sango Air Defense, Inc Sango-12 Fighter plane
Type: Air Superiority/Intercepter Fighter Craft
Length: 70 feet
Wingspan: 50 feet
Engine: two Bankuian Tech thrust vectoring engines
Speed: Mach 1.6
Wing area: 666 ft² (61.87 m²)
Range: 3,300 km (2,050 mi)
Guns: 40 mm
Missiles, 12 Hardpoints, uses The Shark Anti-Aircraft Missile and Wolfeel-78 Anti-Shipping Missile.
a Forward-swept wing Plane


and... (broken up to excluse stats he didn't use, order changed for clarity)


Length: 22.6 m (74 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: 15.16 m to 16.7 m (49 ft 9 in to 54 ft 9 in)
Powerplant: 2× Lyulka AL-37FU(planned) flying prototypes used 2 Aviadvigatel D-30F6 afterburning, thrust-vectoring (in PFU modification) turbofans with digital control
Maximum speed: Mach 1.6[2] ((1500 kmh, 1056 mph)Range: 3,300 km (2,050 mi)
Wing area: 666 ft² (61.87 m²)
Guns: 1× 30 mm GSh-30-1 cannon with 150 rounds
Missiles: 14 hardpoints (2 wingtip, 6-8 underwing, 4-6 conformal under the fuselage)

The only changes I can detect is that he upped the cannon to 40 mm and lowered the hardpoints. He also renamed the engines, but didn't change any important stats (i.e. wing area, dimensions, etc.)

This is a minor copy and paste edit job from wiki:



and... (broken up to excluse stats he didn't use, order changed for clarity)


The only changes I can detect is that he upped the cannon to 40 mm and lowered the hardpoints. He also renamed the engines, but didn't change any important stats (i.e. wing area, dimensions, etc.)


Cazeila helped a bit with it, The thrust vectoring engines were his Idea

Put this on draftroom

No, don't.

Cazeila helped a bit with it, The thrust vectoring engines were his Idea

really? Cazelia's never let on that he ever worked in Sukhoi's R&D department.... :P

If you didn't get it: the original Su-47 also had thrust vectoring, as posted, hence: I think not.

No, don't.

red'd for EMPHASIS.

Depends on the draftroom.

Yep, as stated "Powerplant: 2× Lyulka AL-37FU(planned) flying prototypes used 2 Aviadvigatel D-30F6 afterburning, thrust-vectoring (in PFU modification) turbofans with digital control" directly from wiki. See, I wouldn't have a problem with what you did, except you didn't give credit. Last time I checked, thats plagarism.

really? Cazelia's never let on that he ever worked in Sukhoi's R&D department.... :P

If you didn't get it: the original Su-47 also had thrust vectoring, as posted, hence: I think not.

Worked with the armaments a bit, I didn't expect the thing to be so similar to the Su-47 (Even though the Su-47 is an epic plane)

If I were to do a little bit more on the design, I would make the thing about 9 ft longer, 5 ft more wingspan and some avionics. Just me though.

I did the same thing with the F-14, added better engines, higher caliber gun, fitted more harpoints ect ect...

But seriously the draftroom is where it's at; you have a fuckton of awesome designers there who can iron this thing out.

But yet again it's just me.

The Last time I got on that site, I was kicked out by their mod, who was bais and I can tell you who it was, Carbandia! He was mad over me being friendly with one of the NSers being friendly with me that He kicked me out for no reason.

The Last time I got on that site, I was kicked out by their mod, who was bais and I can tell you who it was, Carbandia! He was mad over me being friendly with one of the NSers being friendly with me that He kicked me out for no reason.

Or possibly because you blatantly copied Wiki, claimed you didn't, and threw a hissy fit when we proved you wrong? Because that seems a bit more logical, and, you know, factual.

Or possibly because you blatantly copied Wiki, claimed you didn't, and threw a hissy fit when we proved you wrong? Because that seems a bit more logical, and, you know, factual.

and you get off this thread, you are being a pain in my rear end.....AGAIN.

The Last time I got on that site, I was kicked out by their mod, who was bais and I can tell you who it was, Carbandia! He was mad over me being friendly with one of the NSers being friendly with me that He kicked me out for no reason.
ooc: please, if you are going to accuse someone of ejecting you then get your facts straight. Not only am I not a mod, but I have no wish to ever become a one.

ooc: please, if you are going to accuse someone of ejecting you then get your facts straight. Not only am I not a mod, but I have no wish to ever become a one.

I would become a mod just to ban Hataria and those people dumb enough to invite him ^_^

Stop bickering...

Stop bickering...
How is defending myself against a accusation that has no basis in reality "bickering"?

So the re-arming and nerfing of what essentially would be a Chinese monkey-model Su-47 de-evolves into a "So and so banned me/That there be plagerism" spiele?

FFS, it's a game. A very freeform game at that.
He could call a blimp a high speed interceptor for all I care, so long as performance isn't too insane I'd be alright with it.

I also happen to find memorizing 'Sango-12' easier than "Nerfed indiginous Su-47 Berikrut Prototype".

It's also pretty hard to legally plagerise an underdeveloped stat-block w/o any development write-up...
I don't think Jolt has to be worried about getting sued by Sukhoi for this.

Put simply, the Su-47 is a technology demonstrator, not an actual fighter. It has yet to be tested in combat.

Thus, I would doubt the effectiveness of any Su-47-derived plane.

Put simply, the Su-47 is a technology demonstrator, not an actual fighter. It has yet to be tested in combat.

Thus, I would doubt the effectiveness of any Su-47-derived plane.

It's just like with the steampunk airships... to the point a few Hollywood movies and computer games(*cough*Freedom Fighters*cough*) have the limited presence of Su-47, simply because it "looks cool":

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool

I was only trying to help, ot create a monster...

I was only trying to help, not create a monster...

well, I do need help in Plane Design.

Put simply, the Su-47 is a technology demonstrator, not an actual fighter. It has yet to be tested in combat.

Thus, I would doubt the effectiveness of any Su-47-derived plane.


That's not fair. This is NationStates, concept aircraft are bloody everywhere, flying around and out performing other aircraft. Also it isn't fair to just say this aircraft is a copy of the Su-47 but it isn't, at least not stat for stat. Also every NS made aircraft on this game is copied from an RL aircraft but with some added tweaks. Every aircraft.

Mine are copied from RAF and USAF aircraft like the EF-2000; Tornado GR4, F3, ECR; F-22, and F/B-22 (Bomber concept); A-10; F-16 and F-15 to just name a few plus some other aircraft off NS with the designers permission.

NS is a game, not a defence industry and thus developing an aircraft from scratch without help or support from existing aircraft is not only difficult, but nearly impossible. Also i think Ryou's previous bad experiance with nicking RL designs and giving them different names has tainted his reputation to such a degree that if any stat is similar to an RL aircraft he is instantly criticised.

Give him a break and instead of forcibly nitpick the design just show him how to improve it. He'll listen.

Also he doesn't post on the NS Draftroom because of previous bad experiances and I agree with him, it's probably for the best that he doesn't stir up any past bad blood.

That's not fair. This is NationStates, concept aircraft are bloody everywhere, flying around and out performing other aircraft. Also it isn't fair to just say this aircraft is a copy of the Su-47 but it isn't, at least not stat for stat. Also every NS made aircraft on this game is copied from an RL aircraft but with some added tweaks. Every aircraft.

Not true. This proves you do not know how the NS draftroom community works. I can give dozens examples of purely Player created aircraft. They might have simmilar concepts, but are in no way just RL planes with a few tweaks.

Also he doesn't post on the NS Draftroom because of previous bad experiances and I agree with him, it's probably for the best that he doesn't stir up any past bad blood.

I can't find what he's posted on the old draftroom. He wasn't flamed. All people did was point out that his designs were just copied stat blocks from wiki. And on the Draftroom, this gets you Deated. It is stated in the rules.

Rules for New draftroom: link (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=3)
Rules for old Draftroom on plagarism: link (http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_NS_Draftroom/index.php?showtopic=936=37)

OOC: On the point of Wikidesigning I use the MiG-107 Spectrum as my primary Space Fighter in MT. It is based on proven tech on the MiG-105 Spiral prototype. I give credit to the MiG-105, I say that its designers helped design the MiG-107 which is an upgrade using modern technologies for my government. It uses upgrades that the Soviets planned to implement (something we here at NS love).

The content is mostly my own, I made up names and associated technologies and used an existing booster for my launch stage.

IC: The Sango-12 has been give the code name of Sango-12 'Filly' in Leafanistani Air/Space Forces parlance.

Strategic Solutions, Preliminary Intelligence Report

The Filly as designated by Air/Space Force Subcommittee on new plane development is a variant of the Su-47 Berkut technology demonstrator. As a forward swept wing aircraft with 3D thrust vectoring, its extreme maneuverability is a threat to helicopters and a menace to surface forces. Its many hardpoints means that it will be able to act effectively as a ground attack fighter and perhaps even a heavy missile carrier to sink shipping.

Because of its designation in Ryou Black Islander forces as a Air Superiority Fighter and Interceptor means that during operations against the Filly it will most likely be used in those roles. Bomber crews are advised not to get into turning battles with the aircraft as its maneuverability will mean it will win. They are advised to take advantage of their high speed to outrun the Filly as its maximum speed is only Mach 1.63. Fighter crews are also advised not to get into a fight with the Filly but to speed off and shoot at a distance.

In the event a dogfighting is necessary, avoid turning battles at all cost. Strap in and thrust up and engage the Filly in a climbing battle where even reserve J-10s and Su-35s will be able to take advantage of their higher rate of climb. As always work in teams to take down the Filly.

The next time your foreign intervention comes under fire, call Strategic Solutions for assistance. We promise to deliver the most favorable outcome.

(c)2024 Strategic Solutions, a wholly owned subsidiary of General Resources Conglomerate

[END]

OOC: On the point of Wikidesigning I use the MiG-107 Spectrum as my primary Space Fighter in MT. It is based on proven tech on the MiG-105 Spiral prototype. I give credit to the MiG-105, I say that its designers helped design the MiG-107 which is an upgrade using modern technologies for my government. It uses upgrades that the Soviets planned to implement (something we here at NS love).

The content is mostly my own, I made up names and associated technologies and used an existing booster for my launch stage.

IC: The Sango-12 has been give the code name of Sango-12 'Filly' in Leafanistani Air/Space Forces parlance.

Strategic Solutions, Preliminary Intelligence Report

The Filly as designated by Air/Space Force Subcommittee on new plane development is a variant of the Su-47 Berkut technology demonstrator. As a forward swept wing aircraft with 3D thrust vectoring, its extreme maneuverability is a threat to helicopters and a menace to surface forces. Its many hardpoints means that it will be able to act effectively as a ground attack fighter and perhaps even a heavy missile carrier to sink shipping.

Because of its designation in Ryou Black Islander forces as a Air Superiority Fighter and Interceptor means that during operations against the Filly it will most likely be used in those roles. Bomber crews are advised not to get into turning battles with the aircraft as its maneuverability will mean it will win. They are advised to take advantage of their high speed to outrun the Filly as its maximum speed is only Mach 1.63. Fighter crews are also advised not to get into a fight with the Filly but to speed off and shoot at a distance.

In the event a dogfighting is necessary, avoid turning battles at all cost. Strap in and thrust up and engage the Filly in a climbing battle where even reserve J-10s and Su-35s will be able to take advantage of their higher rate of climb. As always work in teams to take down the Filly.

The next time your foreign intervention comes under fire, call Strategic Solutions for assistance. We promise to deliver the most favorable outcome.

(c)2024 Strategic Solutions, a wholly owned subsidiary of General Resources Conglomerate

[END]

Now that I can agree on.

Not true. This proves you do not know how the NS draftroom community works. I can give dozens examples of purely Player created aircraft. They might have simmilar concepts, but are in no way just RL planes with a few tweaks.



I can't find what he's posted on the old draftroom. He wasn't flamed. All people did was point out that his designs were just copied stat blocks from wiki. And on the Draftroom, this gets you Deated. It is stated in the rules.

Rules for New draftroom: link (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=3)
Rules for old Draftroom on plagarism: link (http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_NS_Draftroom/index.php?showtopic=936=37)


I never said every aircraft designed is just an RL one "tweaked2, some are some aren't. Most of mine aren't. But generally most aircraft designed have RL ones as an inspiration or as a blue print to work from to make ones own aircraft. It also proves nothing about what I know or don't know about the Draftroom. I'm actually a bit offended by the comment.

Ryou (then Hataria) posted several naval vessels as his own that had been completely nicked off NS wiki. While he did wrong and hadn't read the rules, he was most certainly not treated in a friendly way. I hold hold that against the folks on the draftroom. I'm just saying that it's because he doesn't carry a good report on the draftroom and because of his reputation on making his own designs.... well let's face it, I doubt he'll recieve the warmest of welcomes.

I never said every aircraft designed is just an RL one "tweaked2, some are some aren't. Most of mine aren't. But generally most aircraft designed have RL ones as an inspiration or as a blue print to work from to make ones own aircraft. It also proves nothing about what I know or don't know about the Draftroom. I'm actually a bit offended by the comment.

Ryou (then Hataria) posted several naval vessels as his own that had been completely nicked off NS wiki. While he did wrong and hadn't read the rules, he was most certainly not treated in a friendly way. I hold hold that against the folks on the draftroom. I'm just saying that it's because he doesn't carry a good report on the draftroom and because of his reputation on making his own designs.... well let's face it, I doubt he'll recieve the warmest of welcomes.

Stevid is right. I know I sometimes use Wiki to help in the design, But that don't meen you have any right to Nitpick on me.

Draftroom is definitely biased against Hataria/Black Ryou Islands/whatever the hell he wants to call himself, seeing as he fails to abide by the basic forums rules and regulations regarding plagiarism and originality with virtually every post he made there. It would behoove him to stay off of our forums, as he is not welcome nor is ever likely to be welcomed there, and I sincerely ask the International Incidents community to never besmirch our boards by associating his threads with its name ever again.

:)

I read his(admittedly, very, very ridiculous) assualt rifle thread on the NS Draftroom. I am going to say this: he was never banned, his account status still says 'Member', but the Draftroom did react to him in a rather hostile manner. I conclude that he simply never came back.

Proof: http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1646

Oh, and Carbandia is not a mod...

Ehm (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1646&view=findpost&p=2728468)... Red Tide2, that thread wasn't exactly written by him. Now I suggest all to stop further bull slinging specifically directed about this old problem before it hits the fan in a NSD vs. TRBI thing I really don't want to happen now.

--------

Regarding the more ample and more relevant subject of the supposed "lack of original aircrafts in NS", I utterly disagree too (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=2394). I don't think the only aircraft I designed is just a tweak of RL specs, because I doubt you'll ever find a RL air superiority fighter with four displays in the cockpit, some point-defense interception capabilities and short take-off and landing capability, which airframe is made by a cranked-arrow and a little flying-wing like delta wing, because the engine exhaust is in the middle, which resembles one of the exhausts of the YF-23 to reduce RCS and is also slightly above wings in the fuselage rather than behind them, plus with unstable canards and which takes advantage of the Coanda effect on both its turbofan placement above the wings an on its fluidic vectored thrust nozzles to allow its STOL capability. Of course, I searched some information instead of CTRL+C CTRL+V specs to design it, and maybe it might end with a different airframe because I have not finished to discuss or search about the cranked arrow delta wing pros and cons, but according to NASA page on it, it does have the sort of performance I would need for its ceiling and climb speed.

Proof: http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1646


fake hataria, was a prank (probably by Franberry)

fake hataria, was a prank (probably by Franberry)

I say it is Fris or Maldorians, those two have it out for me. I want who ever is doing it to stop it now.

I say it is Fris or Maldorians, those two have it out for me. I want who ever is doing it to stop it now.

Fris, the Mod? He doesn't even RP, why would he go on there. When that happened, Mal didn't even know about the other draftroom.