NationStates Jolt Archive

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa56/jackofh3arts/defensebanner.png
1 Via Audax | Spoletium A01-007

To the Nations of Europa Atlantica:

The Holy Empire of Anselmus is interested in participating in War Games with one or more of her sister nations, to be held on either the Balearic Islands, if Kenny does not protest, or the island of Corsica. We propose that ground forces be division-sized, with minimal fixed-wing and naval support. Those nations interested will please reply to this message. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Daniel Boatwright
Minister of Defence
The Holy Empire of Anselmus

OOC: Bump.

OOC:*ahem*

You could just invade Fictional Archipelago 001, which looks exactly like what you want, but doesn't require anyone's permission.

OOC: You're right. I've always had a problem with those bastards on Fictional Archipelago 001 anyway.

OCC: yes, please do invade Fictional Archipelago 001, and leave the balearics alone.

NO! Wait! *Evacuates Fictional Archipelago 001 of Pratans*
Now you can invade it.

OOC: You guys all suck, btw.

OOC: We can't do them in unclaimed territory so Corsica is out of the question so we need to do them on some other islands. Maybe Texel and Vlieland?

The Kingdom of Kabavian is willing to accept the challenge of The Holy Empire of Anselmus on the Reclaimation of The Balearic Islands, and requests the role of the defender in this scenario. However, we seek clarification on your request of "minimal fixed-wing and naval support".
Regards,
Ministry of Military and Defense
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg13/kabavian/AlidKabihr-1.jpg
Alid Kabihr

OOC: I won't be able to actually start until later tonight, as Yanitaria is going to help me get a basic military set up. And I was under the impression that this scenario was primarily naval combined with aircraft support to get troops on the island?

EDIT: Also, what island do you want to battle on? I missed your first part on if the Baltic Islands not being available going to another set up. I'm still up for the Baltic Islands, except doubling the scale so it's worth the time to capture either of the two islands for a staging area /aircraft landings, but I'm willing to change.

The Ministry of Defence of the Armed Federal Republic of Corbournne
1 Rue de Corbournne, Corbournne

The Armed Federal Republic of Corbournne would be glad to participate in these war games, and offer out own islands, Gabinique and Eugene (RL Saaremaa and Hiiumaa) as sites for the event.

Sincerely,

Jacques Massena
Minister of Defence
Armed Federal Republic of Corbournne

The Kingdom of Kabavian is willing to accept the challenge of The Holy Empire of Anselmus on the Reclaimation of The Balearic Islands, and requests the role of the defender in this scenario. However, we seek clarification on your request of "minimal fixed-wing and naval support".
Regards,
Ministry of Military and Defense
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg13/kabavian/AlidKabihr-1.jpg
Alid Kabihr

OOC: I won't be able to actually start until later tonight, as Yanitaria is going to help me get a basic military set up. And I was under the impression that this scenario was primarily naval combined with aircraft support to get troops on the island?

EDIT: Also, what island do you want to battle on? I missed your first part on if the Baltic Islands not being available going to another set up. I'm still up for the Baltic Islands, except doubling the scale so it's worth the time to capture either of the two islands for a staging area /aircraft landings, but I'm willing to change.

OOC: Tree Bitch, it's the Balearic Islands, the Baltic is an ocean up towards Sweden, Finland, and Poland.

OOC: Texel and Vlieland are probably a bit small for our purposes, so I think we should go with Corbournne's offer of his two islands. They're about the size of the Balearics and I'd rather do this somewhere in EA as opposed to a "fictional" place. What say all of you?

OOC: Bump.

OCC: Sorry about the delay. My military is nearly done, I just need to tackle tanks, navy, and artillery and then it's done. I should be done sometime tonight or tomorrow, as im currently cramming for an upcoming midterm... Also, changing Islands in fine by me, choose where you want the key town to be.

OOC: Yeah, my military isn't quite ready yet, need some more ships, planes, and a Main Battle Tank. There are some nice cliffs near the village of Perrine (RL Panga) on the north coast of Gabinique, Corbournne. (RL Saaremaa, Estonia)

The Theocratic Republic of the Beatus, wishes to participate in this training operation, and wish to request how these War Games will be conducted?

OOC: Alright, so here's what's up. The following nations have committed to the first EA war games:

Anselmus
The Beatus
Benelux
Corbournne
Kabavian

The stage we have selected is the Corbournnian islands of Gabinique and Eugene, or RL Saaremaa and Hiiumaa. A map of Saaremaa is below:

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa56/jackofh3arts/Saaremaa_map_tourist2.png

Kabavian wants to defend, and no one else has specified a role. What say all of you?

OOC: I'd like to defend, though it doesn't really matter.

[OOC: I'll join in as defence.]

OOC: Would that make the sides too lopsided?

OOC: Would that make the sides too lopsided?

Not if you limit the unit sizes.

OOC: Yeah, good point. Ok, I'll attack with the Beatus and Benelux and the other guys will defend. How much naval and air combat do we want?

OOC: And what sized ground forces? Division-sized? A couple divisions?

OOC: You ought to limit it to one division (15K troops, including logistics), one carrier battle group (or equivalent, based around one large carrier, and at most, 2 smaller ones, with supporting naval units), and the carrier's compliment of aircraft, plus a supporting wing of strategic bombers, with tankers.

OOC: OK, 15,000 troops including logistics is 7,500 actual troops.

I need to organize my navy for sure (Off to Delkor!)

Also, keep in mind these are war games ICly too.

[OOC: Only one division? Damn. My "tactics" rely on numbers.]

OOC: Alright. I'll get started on my ORBAT. I hope no one plans on using ridiculous "post-modern" technology.

OOC: OK, 15,000 troops including logistics is 7,500 actual troops.

I need to organize my navy for sure (Off to Delkor!)

Also, keep in mind these are war games ICly too.

OOC: When you have PMCs or dedicated support divisions on hand, yes.

Otherwise, it's four men supporting for every one man fighting. This includes tank mechanics, helicopter repairs, drivers, and such.

But once you get low on men, then less people are needed for logistics.

Edit: medical assistants, hospitals, and some support can be outsourced to your navy. Perhaps 1 in 3 can fight.

OOC: I would not be opposed to leaving the logistics-wanking out of it, really.

OOC: Wanking means unrealism. I'm simply letting you know that with out private military companies or something similar, very few troops actually see combat in reality.

It's been that way since the dawn of time, and in an all out RP, one can expect you to know your logistics marginally. A division is more than enough to take the Islands, and I'd like to see the less experienced RPers get some practice that includes all aspects of the military they RP. I know that I wish I had done so.

One could just use "iced-mochas in a coffee shop" to feed one's army...

No PMT? Aww, I like using ion cannons and cluster missiles and Obelisks of Light and laser cannons and particle beams and Gauss rifles and Arclite cannons and canister rifles and oh bother it.

Logistics are very important; one MRE can be the difference between victory and defeat. One bullet can change the entire tide of a battle. And of course, logistics supply both. I think.

Alright, we'll have logistics

And Stok, if I wanted all that junk I'd just play Command and Conquer haha.

So shall we get started?

For the purposes of this exercise, dubbed SHINING BEACON by the Imperial Army, elements of the 22nd Airborne Division have been integrated into the 1st Anselmian Expeditionary Force to give the normally heavy mechanized task force a light infantry airborne component. This is to ensure the entirety of the Army's commitment to SHINING BEACON remains within the proposed constraints.

Order of Battle, 1st Anselmian Expeditionary Force (1AEF)
Revised 26 FEB 2008

HQ Brigade (HQ/1AEF)
----------------------
-Headquarters & Headquarters Company, 1AEF
-Headquarters Support Company
-832d Signals Battalion
-555th Helicopter Attack Battalion, AH-64D Apache Mk II

13th Imperial Lancers Regiment (13LAN)
--------------------------------------
HQ Battalion, 13 Lancers (HQ/13LAN)
-B Troop, 112th Helicopter Reconnaissance Battalion (Airborne)
-1st Platoon: 2 x OH-635 Caracal (Attached to 1st Bat.)
-2nd Platoon: 2 x OH-635 Caracal (Attached to 2nd Bat.)
-3rd Platoon: 2 x OH-635 Caracal (Attached to 3rd Bat.)

1st Battalion, 13 Lancers (1/13LAN)
-HQ Company
-A Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-B Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-C Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-D (Recce) Troop, 6 FV92 Praetorian CFV

2nd Battalion, 13 Lancers (2/13LAN)
-HQ Company
-E Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-F Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-G Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-H (Recce) Troop, 6 FV92 Praetorian CFV

3rd Battalion, 13 Lancers (2/13LAN)
-HQ Company
-J Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-K Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-L Troop, 12 FV70 Templar II MBT
-M (Recce) Troop, 6 FV92 Praetorian CFV

16th Imperial Regiment of Grenadiers (Mechanized) (16GRE)
---------------------------------------------------------
HQ Battalion, 16 Grenadiers (HQ/16GRE)
-A Troop, 153rd Helicopter Reconnaissance Battalion (Airborne)
-1st Platoon, 2 OH-635 Caracal (Attached to 1st Bat.)
-2nd Platoon, 2 OH-635 Caracal (Attached to 2nd Bat.)
-3rd Platoon, 2 OH-635 Caracal (Attached to 3rd Bat.)

1st Battalion, 16 Grenadiers (1/16GRE)
-HQ Company
-A company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-B Company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-C Company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-D Pioneer (Recce) Company, 6 FV92 Praetorian CFV

2nd Battalion, 16 Grenadiers (2/16GRE)
-HQ Company
-E Company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-F Company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-G Company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-H Pioneer Company, 6 FV92 Praetorian CFV

3rd Battalion, 16 Grenadiers (3/16GRE)
-HQ Company
-J Company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-K Company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-L Company, 12 FV90 Praetorian IFV
-M Pioneer Company, 6 FV92 Praetorian CFV

35th Heavy Horse Artillery Regiment
----------------------------------
-1st Battalion, 35th Heavy Horse Artillery
-A Battery, AR90
-B Battery, AR90
-C Battery, AR90
-D Battery, M1131 Onager FSV
-2nd Battalion, 35th Heavy Horse Artillery

22nd Brigade Combat Team (Airborne)
-----------------------------------
-1st Battalion, 22nd Parachute Infantry Regiment
-A Company, Airborne Infantry
-B Company, Airborne Infantry
-C Company, Airborne Infantry
-D Company (Recon), FV1114 HMMWV
-2nd Battalion, 22nd Parachute Infantry Regiment
-3rd Battalion, 22nd Parachute Infantry Regiment
-2nd Battalion, 73rd Light Artillery Regiment (Airborne)
-B Company, 904th Helicopter Attack Battalion
-22d Brigade Support Battalion

1st Sustainment Brigade
-----------------------
-Headquarters Company, 1st Sustainment Brigade
-579th Combat Engineer Battalion
-889th Medical Support Battalion
-901st Aviation Supply Battalion
-A Troop, CH-47 Chinook
-B Troop, UH-90 Pegasus
-C Troop, UH-90 Pegasus
-13th Forward Support Battalion
-16th Forward Support Battalion
-35th Forward Support Battalion
-224th Aviation Support Battalion

OOC: Questions? Comments? Naval and air forces orbats to follow.

OOC:

Yani: I'm talking just for the land troops. I heard that navy is 1 in 3 are actually on boats and for air force 1 in 4 are actual pilots. I suppose I will be using a 1 in 3 anyways because I would attack with marines not the army. This means the Koninklijk Landmacht would be left entirely out and I'd be using the Korps Mariniers, Koninklijk Marine and Koninklijk Luchtmacht. Orbat ASAP.

OOC:

Yani: I'm talking just for the land troops. I heard that navy is 1 in 3 are actually on boats and for air force 1 in 4 are actual pilots. I suppose I will be using a 1 in 3 anyways because I would attack with marines not the army. This means the Koninklijk Landmacht would be left entirely out and I'd be using the Korps Mariniers, Koninklijk Marine and Koninklijk Luchtmacht. Orbat ASAP.

OOC: In the navy, assuming two crews, it about 42-45% are on boats, the rest are land bound. With the airforce, it's much, much higher, since aircraft are more complex, so it's actually something like 1 in 10.

With the marines or army, it's about 1 in 3 if the navy is supporting them

Will have troops info up soon.

Yeah, I know, 1 in 4 is pretty unrealistic for aircraft. I'll use 1 in 10. Divisions actually consist of 10,000 to 20,000 soldiers so I think it would be much larger taking into account logistics personnel, say 45,000 including logistics personnel.

Now, I do not know about anyone else, but it is a nightmare getting 15,000 marines to shore because we only get one carrier group unless those will be counted separately.

Again, I still need to compile my ORBAT.

Actually, logistics personnel are included in a division. But that means that everyone is fighting with the same amount of people.

While it's true that it's 15,000 soldiers, clerks, drivers, and cooks are soldiers first, and whatever their job is second.

So we're talking 15,000 personnel on the ground, including both combat and logistics personnel. Not including air force personnel deployed from other bases, or navy personnel off the coast. Where do land-based aircraft launch from? Are they expected to fly from our home countries?

Yes, but those are obviously separate because you'll never have an Army or Marine division that includes elements from the navy or air force. It's simply not done.

So you will have 15,000 troops on the ground. Those include the troops that are also the division mechanics, the division clerks, the division MASH staff, the division logistics staff, the division culinary staff and so on and so forth.

No offense, Yani, but I don't appreciate you lecturing me on what constitutes an army division. You're not the only one around here who wishes he were Tom Clancy, Larry Bond, or Harold Coyle. You may have noticed I already posted an OrBat of the division I plan to deploy.

Realism is important. Without realism, I can claim that I can fire a hand-held 300mm flak cannon with 3 chain gun attachments and an ion cannon on my head. Well, that's more wank, since the moment I do anything I'll just explode and the sheer weight of the weapons will crush me, but that's realism. A patrol-boat holding 50 AShM is wank. A soldier holding an MG42 by the hip and getting every shot on a soldier 300 m away is wank. Et cetera. Remember that you can choose your own division sizes, however.

I don't think anyone was suggesting we not be realistic, Stok. I was just saying that we shouldn't necessarily have to RP exactly what our battalion supply trains are doing, etc. Obviously they exist, and obviously this is going to be strictly realistic MT.

Point taken.

Logistics are very important, though. If I destroy one caravan of yours that is loaded with, say, million dollar missiles (don't ask), that's quite a big blow to your men if your men are out of missiles.

Logistics are very important, though. If I destroy one caravan of yours that is loaded with, say, million dollar missiles (don't ask), that's quite a big blow to your men if your men are out of missiles.

Further, if you don't have men processing your mail, your troops moral drops.

If you don't have men to repair your tanks, any little breakage will halt your advance.

And if you don't have cooks, then your men will starve.

I am not trying to lecture you, but these are all elements of an interesting and realistic RP. Once you drop those instances for the sake of expediency, it's not much of a stretch to drop other things as well.

For instance, my soldiers don't need to be supplied with ammo every day. I am sure they can just magically poof it into existence.

Further, you don't even really need to RP your logistics. Just have numbers handy in case the enemy wants to RP attacks on them.

I know that. Again, see orbat.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but can't you just split a division up so you have a certain amount of troops that are combat and just go from there? As Yani suggested 1 in 4 logistics, that leaves about 3750 actual troops that will be fighting, and so you can put that many people in the required areas (tanks, artillery, troops in the front line etc) and then logistics would be covered no? Then just have a carrier equililence of aircraft and a few suporting ships.

And onto something regarding the scenario, how is this going to play out? The impression im getting is the attackers are attacking a specific area, but I wouldn't mind if the whole island was open to attack, or there's like 6 spots that they could possibly land to make it more interesting and challenging. That's my two cents... (fyi, my military is built now, I just need to do the number crunching)

Landing only your combat troops initially will work for a couple days at most, but if we want to do this as realistically as possible, there will need to be logistics personnel. Also, airdropping supplies could work.

OOC: Bump

Please explain this idea of an impending threat?

With the impending threat of invasion, we no longer feel we can participate in this "war game" as all forces are needed to protect our people.

Anselmus would like to engage the Beatus in diplomatic talks to ascertain the nature of this perceived threat and to see if she can dispel this notion.

We are also withdrawing.

The government of Anselmus is still very much interested in conducting these exercises, regardless of alliance.

We will re-join these games should they only involve states which are not NOP members.

Well good then.

The Armed Federal Republic of Corbournne respects the decision of Beatus, if that is how they feel. We also denounce the Benelux Government for being so close-minded. Both alliances seem to wish peace for the region, yet you are withdrawing for the simple reason that New Oslo Pact members are participating. This was meant to bring our nations together, not to tear them apart. We are glad that the Anselmus Government is not so biased.

OCC: I'll have my army posted tonight, was busy fighting off a chem midterm for the past few days. And that's a shame you guys are withdrawing, I was intending this to be practically non-related to whats actually going in EA, and just give us a chance to get rp experience instead the old fashion way.

EDITED: Hey Anselmus, approximately how many troops including logistics are you bringing into this battle?

Uhh...One division. About 15,000. That's on the ground only.