NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, this is an OOC/Planning/Discussion thread for now.

Let's get to the point. For IC and OOC reasons, I came up with this:

I'm fairly crap with land/air conflicts, but I found I have a small 'talent' for naval ones. I also have a big, big navy. Now, taking a leaf from the british (I am a brit myself, as a point of interest) I'd like to become what you'd call a 'naval power'

No, I don't wanna become a super-wanked nation with excellent everything and genetically-created soldiers. I just want to be a bit of a guy to reckon with at sea. Obviously, I need your help.
Just a point to make first: This is for RP reasons. This is not a big hey-I'm-great-you-suck-hahaha-superwank-godmod. Again, this is just for RP reasons. I will sacrifice this for having a rubbish (ish) army and air force, deal?

Just like some nations have crap this and good that, I'd just like some of the same. However, useless being a naval power if nobody knows, which is why I posted this. Criticism yes, but Constructive please.

And McPsychoville, please stay out of this thread.

Cool w/ me. If I were you, I'd get a really good naval air combat force (plus carriers) and a sizable marine force. You need to cover land and air, even if it's through sea.


Assuming you've just started your navy,
I'd advise these for your beginning navy:
-Missile cruisers
-Frigates
-Carriers
-Attack submarines with something like VLS for land attack
-Transports
Don't bother with battlecruisers/ships and destroyers for now. The main part with a small force is mobility.

When it gets larger:
+battlecruisers
+ballistic missile submarines
+destroyers

Add some firepower now. That's how my navy developed, and it's worked for me. Don't bother with battleships, they're friggin cumbersome and limited in versatility.

Constructive comments for me too.

Good move, Antigr - by specializing your military, you're not only doing your nation a favor, but showing that you've got the knowledge of a top-tier RPer. After all, every nation in the RL world isn't the tops at everything military wise - the US may have the best Navy, but they don't have the best land army. Things go even further than that, but this is great stuff.

What I'd do in your position, if looking to promote naval prowess, is weaken your land-based air assets while improving carrier air assets. Also, you may want to look into developing advanced missile systems. To raise funds, you could probaly divert funding from a major numerical ground army and divert it instead into a well-trained, smaller marine force that is inserted via naval control of local waters and supplemented with naval assets, both surface and aerial (in missiles and aircraft).


You said for constructive comments, Ep Halo, and I'm gonna give you one - think about the battleships/dreadnoughts - you may want to build one. They're not the best, but they do serve as mobile badass platforms - equipped with mucho guns and missiles, they can serve out badass on a high level. if you deploy cruisers and frigates around them for defense, your big craft can strike virtually unopposed while your smaller ships fend off attacks. It's all in how you use things.

Buy books.

Design and draw ships. Serious ones. : P

Get a storefront.

This is what I, and many of my friends in "the business" have done.

Don't expect it to come quickly. I started naval stuff in mid 2004 to get where I am now...

Also, being a naval power means you ought to be recognised as one by the others, too. This means the following:

1. No pretending what you're not. Don't just go I HAV A KIKAS NAEVI after a month (not that I think you'd do that, but Hataria did...)
2. Understand that some people are already considered naval powers for a reason.
3. Don't make uneducated statements. If you think it might be wrong, don't say it.

Most importantly: Demonstrate that you know how naval warfare works!

You said for constructive comments, Ep Halo, and I'm gonna give you one - think about the battleships/dreadnoughts - you may want to build one. They're not the best, but they do serve as mobile badass platforms - equipped with mucho guns and missiles, they can serve out badass on a high level. if you deploy cruisers and frigates around them for defense, your big craft can strike virtually unopposed while your smaller ships fend off attacks. It's all in how you use things.

I'm going to tell you for a fact that's not true. The battleship is dead. Get over it.

I've been working on what some of you have said already. I'm typing up a batch of naval writeups for stuff in MS Word, and am working on pics.

For now, all the write-ups I've done are land-based weapons and stuff, contained in my Armoury/Storefront, the link is in my signature.

I have quite a few books - apart from one on battleships, they're pre-1979, but I get the basics from them and the details from the web.

As for your battleship comment, unfortunately to say I have made them - but not those wankified superdreadnoughts.
Just about the same size as the last HMS Hood, a British ship, to be used as a gunfire-support ship and classified as such. Yes, I agree with the battleship argument.

Thank you for your compliments and advice!

Oh, one last thing - we've all heard the battleship argument, it really comes down to choice. Still a few small battlecruisers around these days, though. Oh, I miss the days when the Royal Navy had the power it did - now they can't take over a puddle, thank-you-very-much-peacemongers.

Oh, yeah: and welcome to the senior service.

If you want any help any time (i'm around, that is) from me, you can catch me on msn (matt.labunda@gmail.com).

Found a fault. The problem (RP-related), as I see it, is this:

You can't be a naval power if nobody knows about it, and due to the scale of this place, people won't.

Found a fault. The problem (RP-related), as I see it, is this:

You can't be a naval power if nobody knows about it, and due to the scale of this place, people won't.

That's the point. You have to make yourself known, but not by making stupid stunts, but by slow and respected development of design and doctrine.

And McPsychoville, please stay out of this thread.

After the telegram full of bile you sent my way, you're in no place to be making demands.

After the telegram full of bile you sent my way, you're in no place to be making demands.

It's his thread and according to NS rules he has the right to tell you not to post it in, which you just kind of broke, so um... I guess you're breaking a rule.

That's the point. You have to make yourself known, but not by making stupid stunts, but by slow and respected development of design and doctrine.

Yeah, gave up crazy stunts after 3 posts and craziness after about a hundred. Although size of this place may be a bit of a downer, I suppose that comes with joining. Thanks again for your help.

And McPsycho, do you think you're in much of a position to create trouble, mister super-flame-for-no-reason man? Please leave my thread.

A few points:



Battleships/battlecruisers are no longer feasable
Nuclear subs are very good (see what the Royal Navy managed to do to the Argentinian Navy during the Falklands war using just one antiquated torpedo).
Try using a few airships for recon, transport, etc. They are fast and reasonably cheap. (Of course, you could always do what I have done and put missiles/guns/etc on them and use them offensively).


But otherwise, good idea.

You know Matt I was reading one of your posts the other day when you were saying how shells were better than missiles because they had better AP values and were cheaper. You also said "the armor on ships make missiles worthless." This is on illors technology thread. It is very interesting to see how far NS has come since the days of the SD.

A few points:



Battleships/battlecruisers are no longer feasable
Nuclear subs are very good (see what the Royal Navy managed to do to the Argentinian Navy during the Falklands war using just one antiquated torpedo).
Try using a few airships for recon, transport, etc. They are fast and reasonably cheap. (Of course, you could always do what I have done and put missiles/guns/etc on them and use them offensively).


But otherwise, good idea.

Mmm... I somewhat disagree.

Battlecruisers like the Kirov are extremely useful as ASuW shooters, because with correct doctrine, SAGs do stand a chance against CVBGs, just not SAGs with guns. However, the slow moving, heavily armoured BB just isn't going to work, you're right.

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Falklands/CONQ.gif GOD SAVE THE QUEEN

Airships are good cos they can go really high and probably hold a really big RADAR, but I have doubts about them being fast...

Airships? I know tech has advanced, but the word still brings the Hindenburg and it's flaming wreckage to mind before anything else.

And airships? Fast? They're just oddly-shaped baloons.

Airships? I know tech has advanced, but the word still brings the Hindenburg and it's flaming wreckage to mind before anything else.

And airships? Fast? They're just oddly-shaped baloons.

You need to look up some of the designs by APA and Talost on /d/ then.

Carriers are certainly the way forward for modern navies.

There is the American route with Super Carriers the size of small cities and defended by smaller destroyers and submarines or the route the British, Russians and others take of smaller carriers protected in a similar way.

You can build a smaller carrier a lot quicker and get get more for the same amount of money you'd spend building a single super carrier.

Off course what you can build depends on the naval budget you assign so if you have a huge budget you can have super carriers and really good naval air power.

Even though you're trying to liquidate your land assets, leave your ICBM's alone, and still go for a efficient, marine corps.

Airships: maybe. I'd go for a VTOL Sentry if there is ever one. Or just take a Osprey and stick a huge radar in there. But airships are still good, as long as you provide defensive cover.

JHust an unrelated question - I know that carriers the size of, say, britain's are light carriers, but what is the difference between light and escort carrier?