NationStates Jolt Archive


NST Organized Training RP Signup - War I (MT/early PMT version)

imported_ViZion
29-12-2007, 08:49
RP Thread Click Here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=546910)
This is our SIGNUP thread only. This training/practice RP will not begin until January 5th (Saturday) - SIGNUPS CLOSED FOR FIRST OF WAR TRAINING RPS.

NationStates Trainers (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=545309) is hosting a training RP for those who feel they would like to improve on their war RPing. Please note! This will have absolutely NO effect on your nation. It is simply a training/practice RP.

It is open to any and all newer NS'ers who are looking to improve on their warring skills. This is being done simply to help everyone along in improving their RPing abilities - and this may even help us older RP'ers... we may, after all, notice a good idea or hear something from another person that we haven't thought of ourselves. None the less, this is oriented to helping younger nations improve your RPing abilities so that you can improve and offer a powerful punch in your next big war - where it will actually count.

NST'ers - the trainers - will be here to offer OOC assistance, however will be forbidden to actually ENTER ICly into this war. However, NST'ers will be allowed to offer limited IC humanitarian aid AT MOST.

This war will be split into 2 sides. Later on before the RP opens those who enter into this training we will split up into the two sides.

A pure PMT and a FT version will be held in the future after this, possibly starting not much after this one starts.

Please post in here as to rather you wish to join this RP. Please note, only MT (Modern Tech) and early PMT (Post Modern Tech) may join this particular one. All NST'ers are expected - if you're part of MT - to offer up OOC assistance.

DEFENDERS
Dynamic Revolution
Shesharlie
Brutland and Norden
Third Spanish States
Kalmurstan
The Philippiniada

OFFENDERS
Mi-Goh
Emmerican
Java-Minang
Miamoria
Turka-Sir
Shakal
Greal

Please post if you applied but aren't listed above and your side will be assigned.
Dynamic Revolution
29-12-2007, 23:30
Sign me up please :D
Questers
30-12-2007, 00:21
Count me in for a trainer.
Jenrak
30-12-2007, 16:06
I'll take a look sporadically as a trainer.
imported_ViZion
31-12-2007, 03:41
Sign me up please :D
Done. Quest and Jenrak, thanks. :)
Shesharlie
31-12-2007, 03:52
Id like to sign up!
(not as a trainer...a participant ^.^)
Mi-Goh
31-12-2007, 06:20
I want in, please. As a participant.
Brutland and Norden
31-12-2007, 08:10
I'd be in, though may not be able to post on the week of January 5-13, kinda busy that week.
Greal
31-12-2007, 08:15
I want to be the participant.
imported_ViZion
31-12-2007, 08:44
You guys have been added. Anyone got any questions right now?
Greal
31-12-2007, 08:46
Where is the war going to be?
Kahanistan
31-12-2007, 08:48
I feel a bit old to be training here (May '05), but I need a better knowledge of strategy and tactics. To remove tech as a factor (not all of us are tech buffs), I'd go back to RP'ing with old Soviet crap for this, if I'm allowed in. I'm MT and tend to be resistant to using advanced PMT but allow enemies to use it against me.
imported_ViZion
31-12-2007, 08:49
Well, unless there are other inputs, I figure we will be using everyones nations/lands. We will setup one side to be the innitial defenders, and you guys shall battle it out from there.
Third Spanish States
31-12-2007, 08:56
Can I still join to train roleplaying of asymmetric warfare (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare)?
Dynamic Revolution
31-12-2007, 19:05
I'm assuming we're gonna fabricate some story to instigate this conflict. If so I wouldn't mind being the "Instigator".

I do have on question. I know we are using MT, but do numbers factor in as well? To give an example I currently operate 30 U212 class submarines. However in RL only 5 have been built. I know that many do not factor in the numbers, but I have seen a thread or two where they do...


On a side note Third Spanish States I lol'ed when i read about the Pickup trucks being turned into technicals xD
Emmerican
31-12-2007, 19:17
Count my in aswell if theres space my small nation are big bunch of war mongerors.
Mi-Goh
31-12-2007, 19:25
Yeah, initially I'd like to know what decides the strength/quantity of your forces, and why everyone gets so adamant about it. Is there somewhere I can go to find out exactly how many soldiers and what kind of weapons I'm allowed to have?
Kahanistan
31-12-2007, 19:30
Soldiers: 1/200 of your population for a well-trained, well-equipped army and no plans for war.
1/50 of your population if you're like Israel and have a well-trained force, sort of well equipped, slightly weaker economy, and are constantly under threat.
1/20 of your population if you're like North Korea and have troops with bolt-action rifles and rusty AK-47's, a shitbag economy and are expecting war.
Jenrak
01-01-2008, 00:48
Yeah, initially I'd like to know what decides the strength/quantity of your forces, and why everyone gets so adamant about it. Is there somewhere I can go to find out exactly how many soldiers and what kind of weapons I'm allowed to have?

1% peace-time
5% war time

General guidelines.
Uiri
01-01-2008, 00:55
I may be offering constructive criticism throughout the thread.

Yeah, initially I'd like to know what decides the strength/quantity of your forces, and why everyone gets so adamant about it. Is there somewhere I can go to find out exactly how many soldiers and what kind of weapons I'm allowed to have?

How many soldiers? I can do that. What kind of weapons? Whatever tech level you are playing I assume. For example, you can't use Rifle A-02 which was first manufactured in 2002 in a WWII RP. You can't use say, Death Star-esque lasers in an MT RP.

I will figure out soldiers if you tell me:

What percent of your troops are land soldiers,
What percent are Navy soldiers,
and what percent are pilots.
Mi-Goh
01-01-2008, 01:18
Maybe 60 percent of my army are foot soldiers. 15 percent are navy and 25 percent are air force.
Third Spanish States
01-01-2008, 01:54
Am I the only one here with only 0.2% of the population at the active military as a form of "elite" force also trained in guerrilla warfare among other non-conventional warfare?

Also sadly I lost the thread with the download link, but I use that "Making a Military" .xls and expanded it to add my own designed armored vehicles, pre-designed ships and aircrafts. The problem is that I have no idea on how to reach an approximate value for the yearly maintenance costs of a fifth generation aircraft or of MT+1 armored fighting vehicles. Now on the composition of forces this is basically it in terms of manpower:

55% Army*, 23% Navy and 22% Air Force

*Highly mechanized, for each infantry squad there is an AFV squad with enough IFVs to transport all infantry forces of it.
Brutland and Norden
01-01-2008, 02:55
I have 0.09% of my population in the armed forces. That too small?

60.5% Army; 25.1% Navy; 13.4% Air Force.
Greal
01-01-2008, 03:25
I have around 13 million men in the army, around 20 million total in the whole military, is that too much?
Java-Minang
01-01-2008, 04:24
Sign up!
I have 20 million population.
So I have (because me are a military nation) at least 1.4 million in military.
The people that bring logistic, are armed too.
So when I need them to war, they go.
Is this OK?

(PS: Also my president is secretly using bio-weapon. Is this OK? If not then it's OK to me. )
Daehanjeiguk
01-01-2008, 04:58
Well well well! I'm happy that someone's gone ahead done this. I don't think that I'd be of much help, but for now, I think it's right to correct some misconceptions by offering this statement:

War is a difficult affair, and to consider war as a game of numbers is folly.

Sign up!
I have 20 million population.
So I have (because me are a military nation) at least 1.4 million in military.
The people that bring logistic, are armed too.
So when I need them to war, they go.
Is this OK?

(PS: Also my president is secretly using bio-weapon. Is this OK? If not then it's OK to me. )


Correction: You have a population of 20 million.

Therefore your maximum military population is 1,400,000, including your reserves. Your active military is probably something in the neighborhood of 500,000 soldiers, with around 100,000 in combat arms. And regardless of what you may say, if your logistics crew go to war and die, someone's going to be pissed about not having enough munitions at a certain place, so you can't send every single of your 1,400,000 soldiers Including your equipment maintance - because you've probably got tanks, artillery, helicopters, fighters, bombers, ships, munitions, and other things too - you're running a steep budget. But your economy can only support about $9,016,800,768.00 (from NSDossier (http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/)).

Per soldier, you're paying only $6400 (or whatever is your convenient form of currency), not including equipment maintenance and training. Of course, this doesn't include the staggered payment offered to logistics and reserve troops, but even a staggered costs scenario wouldn't afford much. If your soldiers withstand the economic impoverishment, they will not stand long against a country that has a much smaller, better furnished, and better maintained force.

Your force needs to be smaller, much more efficient. Either that or go on with the guns or butter ideology. My advice is to figure out how much you can reasonably afford. A military state cannot have a strong, sustainable economy, so you will have to sacrifice some of your military strength for economic sustainability, because your economy helps to pay for the defense of the state. Otherwise, a strong military but a weak economy will ruin the state in a long-term war, whereas a weak military but a strong economy has the capability to survive a long-term war.

Besides that, if your president is secretly developing bio-weapons, he needs to be on my red-list (not my black-list, which is the list of people who need to die). I'd judge your president specifically developing biological weapons to be unlikely - your President is likely a political leader, not a biologist; unless he happens to hail from a forgotten heritage of doctor-politicians. In any case, the possibility to develop biological weapons is very possible, but your country wouldn't have sufficient infrastructure to conduct such experiments safely and purely. For the sake of your country's growth - which I personally advise should be the VERY FIRST thing that any country should be concerned with, more so than defense (unless of course, you're in the middle of a revolution) - biological weapons programs should be postponed until your population exceeds 40 million (which will come soon enough).
Daehanjeiguk
01-01-2008, 05:09
I have 0.09% of my population in the armed forces. That too small?

60.5% Army; 25.1% Navy; 13.4% Air Force.


Here's what I'd say about too small - if you're being invaded by someone, your military is too small; if no one's invading you, your military is too big.

Personally, small countries don't need too much to defend their country domestically. That leaves plenty room to make that small force efficient and advanced. Bigger military forces eat up a lot of money, so are particularly devastating to small or weak economies.


FYI, if such advice is not fit or not approved for use here, please let me know and I'll kindly retract these posts.
Java-Minang
01-01-2008, 11:17
OK. It is a secret plan though...
IF I got 1 million, will my economy prevail?
Jenrak
01-01-2008, 18:20
OK. It is a secret plan though...
IF I got 1 million, will my economy prevail?

No.
Trailers
01-01-2008, 18:43
I'm gonna tag this and later, tag the actual practice RP so I can see how to format the FT practice RP, but I will not be participating in this one.

EDIT:

Sign up!
I have 20 million population.
So I have (because me are a military nation) at least 1.4 million in military.
The people that bring logistic, are armed too.
So when I need them to war, they go.
Is this OK?

(PS: Also my president is secretly using bio-weapon. Is this OK? If not then it's OK to me. )

I remember, back when I first started NS, the common age for being developed enough for biological weapons/nuclear arms or nuclear power plants was somewhere around 200 million. But, of course, we were a bit stricter, and almost everyone was MT..
Miamoria
01-01-2008, 20:04
Sign me up!
Emmerican
01-01-2008, 22:10
Just thought i'd post my troop numbers:

I have a population of 32 million at the moment I am writing this, with miltary service compulsory. So i'm going to say 0.8% of the population is eligable for miltary service (288,000) which is then broken down into 10% airforce, 5% navy (all supply boats to keep my forces fighting in the frontlines.) and the other 85% being my army.Which again broken down 40% are reserves, while atleast 20% of my main force are logistics and finally the remaining 25% are ready and able soldiers which around 0.5 of these are special forces.

Best I could do on my forces if it needs cleaning up abit please message me.
Turka-Sir
01-01-2008, 22:20
I could use a good excersise for this site's style of waging war. It'll be interesting to participate in. Sign me up.
Java-Minang
02-01-2008, 01:42
Oh man!
Then how much my military you think it should be?
Daehanjeiguk
02-01-2008, 03:34
Oh man!
Then how much my military you think it should be?

To anyone and everyone:

Your military should be as big as you can afford it to be. Check out the NS Economy stuff (I prefer NSDossier (http://nsdossier.texasregion.net/main.aspx) - because it works...), and figure out how much your country can afford. This step allows you (1) determine how much finance you can afford into your military, (2) plan ahead for economic and military expansion (because you're not going to be stuck at 20million people forever), (3) you can legitimately post military declarations and have a reasonable financial reserve to support extra declarations, and (4) it's just common courtesy to have something that minimally realistic.

I have to say now that I'm very pleased that you are at least demonstrating an interest to get this right from the start, which is a characteristic seldom found even among veterans. I'm not saying that it's a rare thing, because there is a substantial population on NS that values a sustainable government and economy; but nonetheless, I'm glad that you are showing some care for the development of your country. If you get this rolling on the right foot, and have some patience (because we all need a little bit of patience sometimes), your country will grow into a strong and respectable member of the NS community.


I'll post a few stats here and tell you what kind of force I would develop in your stance:

Military Budget:
$14,577,860,658.38

Population:
23,000,000

Per capita income:
$7,087.76


For starters, I'd reserve half of your military budget for research, maintenance, and acquisitions, so starting from about $14 billion, we've now got 7$ billion for our soldiers. Since your per capita income is only $7000, we can afford spending $10000 per solder, for a salary. Double the income to cover training costs. With that, we are able to arrange a strong and sturdy force of some 350,000 soldiers. Put 250,000 soldiers into reserve (because it's always better to have a reserve), and you have an active force of some 100,000 soldiers. Given logistics and such, your active combat force can number between 15,000 and 35,000 troops. This is - of course - not including any air force or navy, which for your state would be beyond your economy. Air force and naval units cost a lot of money to maintain, so I'd wait until you got a sizeable population of some 50 million people.

Now you might moan about having only 100,000 troops with which to fight (actually, 35,000 troops...), but I'll mention that these are 100,000 very efficient and very well maintained troops. If you were fighting against another country whose army numbered as much as 1 million troops, no logistics, poor pay, and poor training, you'd fare much better in war and possibly beat that person if you had good commanders leading the charge. Now I'm not suggesting taking on every country in the world with your efficient and effective force, but for now, you've probably got a very well furnished defense force that can carry some capacity to project your national interests abroad at a short distance.

A good scenario:

You're bordering some belligerent country whose social and economic capabilities are similar to your own (20 million people, GDP $150 billion); except your neighbor has a wildly over-populated military. They have 1 million people in arms, but they're very poor arms (AKs), they lack good armored units, their infrastructure sucks, and their air force is small and limited. Some time later, you're having some border disputes with your belligerent neighbor and for some reason the %$#%^ decides to send in his army to intimidate you. You can throw your troops back at him and stare each other into a "chicken" fight before you decide to go to war. Your enemy gets a little frightened and decides to do a pre-emptive strike.

You don't have an air force, so to speak, but if you've planned your military well, your efficient force has anti-air defenses and although the first strike is pretty bad, you send your defenses on alert and virtually wipe out the enemy air force. In the land attack, your forces - significantly outnumbered - are able to hold tenable positions and use superior firepower and tactics to stop the enemy invasion. Their forces suffer in range of some 20% to 35%, while your losses number around 5%. Their forces - under-paid, under-managed, under-furnished - realize that you're going to win the war if this continues on, because they're spending too much money on their inefficient army. You broadcast messages to the enemy forces, urging them to surrender, offering them a hope of better life if they stop fighting. It won't stop everyone of them, but a good number try to defect or abandon the enemy. Attrition losses them put back another 5%. By the time you're ready to counter attack, your enemy will have lost over a third of their army and if you have a good counter attack, they will be unable to stop your attack. In a few months, they will offer peace. A wise commander will accept the negotiations and try to achieve a sustainable peace. In the process, you will have taught your neighbor a lesson and you will have increased your country's military prestige, providing also valuable combat experience to your soldiers and commanders.

Of course, this assumes that your enemy will be inferior in quality of their soldiers and arms. It is not always this blatant, but you can see that indeed, though you are outnumbered, you can defeat a larger force by maintaining a better army and better equipment.


This is the value of efficiency.

I remember, back when I first started NS, the common age for being developed enough for biological weapons/nuclear arms or nuclear power plants was somewhere around 200 million. But, of course, we were a bit stricter, and almost everyone was MT..

I'm not sure what rule that harkens from, but my personal rule of thumb is if you can afford it, it's plausible. Whether or not it's reasonable is another matter. Biological weapons are cheap and easy to make, because half of the work (if you're doing it right) is being done by the microbes themselves. Of course, it takes a lot of work and the expertise to culture extremely virulent strains to make it work right, but compared to synthesizing chemicals or even pursuing a nuclear programme, biological weapons are cheap and easy. In fact, the majority of the expense in biological programmes is the safety aspect (well, that would depend on who you're hiring as well). Of course, this is not to encourage other smaller countries to start their covert biological programmes, because it is a significant cost and I'm personally not willing to have an unnecessary economic burden if I won't be able to utilize effectively (i.e. spray an enemy without having repercussions brought back upon me for using the weapon in the first place). WMD platforms are mostly useful as a deterrent and then as a absolute strike mechanism.
Dynamic Revolution
02-01-2008, 07:31
My population is around 500,000,000... My military is hovering right around 1.4% So thats roughly 7,000,000
My current defense budget is $1,757,652,770,954.64
I have mandatory conscription and im pulling up my reserves...So expect the number of troops to rise
Shakal
02-01-2008, 07:47
Am I to big for this already? (2.6 Billion) Because I have not got into a war yet that has lasted for more than 12 posts before dieing or something.

If not, I will gladly give advice on what I do know...
Greal
02-01-2008, 07:55
Even for a country my size, thats very tiny compared to the largest nations...............
Third Spanish States
02-01-2008, 09:06
How many logistics and social among other issues would a 10+ billions large nation suffer in MT?
Questers
02-01-2008, 10:28
Yay, time that I can say something.

Mostly that the fact that you're like Russia in geographical size compared to everyone else; transporting personnel across such a huge country, plus, realistically, keeping down seperatists and maintaining law and order over 10 billion people is a daunting task. For this you etiher need a really efficient civil service (think British India; 2,500 Brits for 400 million Indians). Then you have transport and environment issues... the amount of waste that ten billion people produces, and also the difficulties of taxing and controlling them all.
Java-Minang
02-01-2008, 12:14
How about if I spray my Bio to my puppet state or my (real) friend?
With their permission though.
Will the community still attack me?
Questers
02-01-2008, 13:07
So, um, what kind of tech are people using here?

If anyone's using Soviet stuff (which I'd consider my speciality...) then I'll volunteer to tutor them on the right materiel and equipment to use.
imported_ViZion
02-01-2008, 21:30
Spanish, unless I missed your post, are you entering?

Also, let me know what you guys think on admitting Shakal into this due to his outright size advantage compared to others involved here. I've added him to the list and will remove if you guys are worried about that.

Quest, it'll be MT/early PMT (depending on where people view the breakoff period) That being upto about 2015-2020 tech level.
Third Spanish States
02-01-2008, 22:02
Spanish, unless I missed your post, are you entering?

Also, let me know what you guys think on admitting Shakal into this due to his outright size advantage compared to others involved here. I've added him to the list and will remove if you guys are worried about that.

I'm in for training because for now I'm only roleplaying low-intensity warfare against organized crime, and I don't worry about Shakal, specially it's only a simulation and I need a chance for asymmetric and guerrilla warfare, including some hundreds of technicals armed with either MANPADs, TOWs or LMGs.

Also I don't worry about being outnumbered, though my army is no "300"
imported_ViZion
02-01-2008, 23:38
Alright, you're added. :)
Java-Minang
03-01-2008, 02:29
Hey, if this kind of thing happened?
1 of my puppet(i got 2)
have more money than my main!
Well that's offtopic:D
OK so now I decide to do what you say.
I will cut my men to reserve, get latest weapon and equipment for the active, research many things. Et ceteria.
Java-Minang
03-01-2008, 12:56
I have become 29 million!
Do my army still have to be 100.000?
Gurguvungunit
04-01-2008, 05:35
I should let you know that I'm going to be away for the first day of the war, and I'll be frantically writing college stuff this whole weekend. I'll try to stay abreast of it, but my comments might be fairly limited.
Greal
04-01-2008, 05:37
I have a population of 1.466 billion people, and I also have a military of 36.78 million. Is that alright?
(Though it will decrease soon)
Gurguvungunit
04-01-2008, 06:20
A good rule of thumb can be gained by watching the armed forces numbers for peacetime and wartime states. As a general rule, 1% of your population in the military is seen as a very stable arrangement (in that removing 1% of your population from the workforce for constant military duty isn't that damaging). Most people say that the maximum you should ever have is 5% of your population at arms.

Now, this changes when a nation declares war, and then only when the war is one of survival. Looking at WWII, nations like the Soviet Union and the United States put huge percentages of their populations (comparatively) to arms, and got away with it. They also regeared almost all of their heavy industry to support the war effort, but both things take time and a severe toll on a nation's long-term economic growth. The US after WWII was smart enough to disarm fairly quickly (still keeping a large, drafted army around, but not constantly on notice for deployment). The USSR was similar, but in the end we saw the United States go to a wholly professional army using advanced technology to counter Soviet numbers, and guess what? The US is still around.

So... yeah. For most purposes, 1%-5% of your population. If you're gonna go 'total war', you need to spend a while RPing that buildup so it's believable. I'm doing this right now in A Modern World, it can be a time (like in RL) where you can introduce a lot of technologies and put them into service quickly while still being believable. On the other hand, it does take a very real toll on your society and economy, so total war is not the best long-term strategy.
Kalmurstan
04-01-2008, 06:28
I'd be interested in taking part in this, if there's still space and you don't mind me jumping in so close to the start.

Ignore the population on my nations page, I know I do ;). I treat my nation as if it had a population of 70 million rather than the 500+ the "official" stats give. Hope you don't mind that. My whole armed forces total around 200,000 spread across all services (Air, Ground, Naval) and most of the equipment is Soviet/Russian (most? I mean all.)

My rping skills need a good workout, especially as far as war goes since I've never had to fight one yet (hopefully I won't have to fight a real one, but you know how things go sometimes), so it'd be nice to get to have a go at this here violence thing without any real risk to the little chunk of frozen dirt I call Kalmurstan.
Shakal
04-01-2008, 07:05
Well, I have around 140 million citizens in the military. But that includes all services and logistics. 27 million actual troops. I use mixed forces, the Nakil and another are my MBT, while my airforce is F-35 and F-22 while the navy is totally made up... If you want I could offset numbers by using only single army group or something?
Daehanjeiguk
05-01-2008, 00:16
People, let's do something marvelous and novel!

Let's unilaterally drop the ridiculous 1% margin thingamabobber, because for some folks, it just don't make sense.

Let's take a walk down to Reality and see what countries around the world typically have in their armed forces (courtesy of Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_size_of_armed_forces)):


UK
Population - 60.6 million
Armed Forces - 190,000 (57,000 reserve)
per capita - 0.41% of population
Budget - $67.0 billion (official)
Budget per GDP - 3.0% (official)
Budget per soldier - $271,200 (official)

USA
Population - 303 million
Armed Forces - 1,426,000 (858,000 reserve)
per capita - 0.75% of population
Budget - $553.10 billion (official)
Budget per GDP - 4.0% (official)
Budget per soldier - $242,200 (official)

China
Population - 1.3 billion
Armed Forces - 2,255,000 (800,000 reserve)
per capita - 0.24% of population
Budget - $44.94 billion (official)
Budget per GDP - 1.7% (official)
Budget per soldier - $14,700 (official)

Russia
Population - 142 million
Armed Forces - 1,200,000 (2,400,000 reserve)
per capita - 2.5% of population
Budget - $32.4 billion (official)
Budget per GDP - 1.9% (official)
Budget per soldier - $9000 (official)

DPRK
Population - 23.3 million
Armed Forces - 1,106,000 (4,700,000 reserve)
per capita - 24.9% of population
Budget - $5.0 billion (estimated official)
Budget per GDP - 21.8% (estimated official)
Budget per soldier - $860 (estimated official)


Now, which country would you want? As I've said before, if you can afford it, it's yours. But you must know what you are making before you start pulling numbers from whatever wazoo you're using. Militaries are enterprises, among other things; it takes a lot of capital to finance and operate, so just putting up numbers is simply going to be an impressive wank-fest. If you're a comfortably-set state at around 1 billion people, you can consider having 1 million people in arms (active, reserve), maybe even 2 million. Reaching out into the 5 million or 10 million stretch and you'd better have sound figures to legitimize those figures.

Any questions?
Gurguvungunit
05-01-2008, 02:19
Your figures actually make the point that I was. You'll note that the nation with the highest militarization (the DPRK) is also a hermit dictatorship, and by all accounts it is unable to feed its people. The vast majority of its energy and funds go to upkeep on the military, and it is therefore incapable of rising beyond a certain point as a society.

The United States or Great Britain, by contrast, have roughly .75 and .5% respectively, and irrespective of current economic issues (the subprime crisis is a passing thing, as are all economic crises) the USA and the UK use the money not spent on clothing their troops, maintaining their equipment, etc. on educating their people and providing for a quality of life that the DPRK cannot. There is, obviously, more to the deal than just the percentage of population in the military (history has a fair deal to do with it as well) but it is certainly possible to say that the fewer men you have at arms, the better equipped those few men will be, the larger your total workforce, etc.

Of course, the numbers aren't hard rules. That's actually the point that I made, if you had bothered to look at what I was saying. Depending upon your situation, you may choose to have a larger or smaller military, a better equipped or more numerous force, any mix in between. It's called roleplaying, and for the sake of getting started, it's a lot easier to deal with percentages than it is to deal with weighing all of the possible variables. As roleplayers progress in skill and experience... by all means, toss out the 1-5% guideline. You'd just better be prepared to roleplay what that would actually mean... bread lines, food stamps, economic collapse, a totalitarian regime.
Daehanjeiguk
05-01-2008, 03:48
... by all means, toss out the 1-5% guideline. You'd just better be prepared to roleplay what that would actually mean... bread lines, food stamps, economic collapse, a totalitarian regime.

Actually... that's not what I meant, although it does well to illustrate another point. Not every country has a sparklingly clean economy that makes it possible to have a small, efficient military. It wouldn't be quite as realistic if we had clean cut countries all around the world, because not every country IRL is a stunning market economy that has a GDP per capita over $40000.

But to clarify my points, I wasn't referring to your specific post; rather I was referring to these fine posts here:

I have a population of 1.466 billion people, and I also have a military of 36.78 million. Is that alright? (Though it will decrease soon)

Armed Forces per capita - 2.5%
Budget - $10.5 trillion
Budget per GDP - 31.4%

Well, I have around 140 million citizens in the military. But that includes all services and logistics. 27 million actual troops. I use mixed forces, the Nakil and another are my MBT, while my airforce is F-35 and F-22 while the navy is totally made up... If you want I could offset numbers by using only single army group or something?

Armed Forces per capita - 5.1%
Budget - $24.1 trillion
Budget per GDP - 42.4%


If there's another figure with which you're using to make your economics information that is more in line with sustainable economic practices, please show the evidence for it. Otherwise, spending trillions on your military relative to other affairs going to kill your economy - unfortunately, one aspect of NS that is unrealistic. By all means, you can afford it. But have you considered this?

If 25% of your economy is devoted to your military, then that means 75% is leftover for the rest of your country. If your economy sustains a GDP of $1 trillion, that means your army get $250 billion, while the rest of your country gets $750 billion. That might seem fair in some respects, but let's have a look at those numbers with your army. If you've got a total population of about 100 million, and your military is about 5% of that (that is, 5 million in arms somehow), that means you're getting $250 billion for 5 million people, and $750 billion for $95 million people. Rounding out the numbers, you're spending $50000 per soldier, but only $8000 per person for your country. That's a difference that can have either revolution or economic collapse on the brink.

Of course, the economy is only one half of the equation. Social and political standards can affect your country's ability to project your force or even to mobilize.
Gurguvungunit
05-01-2008, 04:12
Oho, right. Never mind then.
Kansiov
05-01-2008, 05:05
I do not follow NS Economy, simply because the way its Calculating the Economy is complete shit. You have many NSers that spend like 40% of their budget on Defense, which is impossible for that Nation to even run their economy and yet their Per Capita is $30,000+.
Jenrak
05-01-2008, 23:46
Also I don't worry about being outnumbered, though my army is no "300"

Technically it was 6300
Gurguvungunit
06-01-2008, 02:17
Is this happening? If so, where's the war?
imported_ViZion
06-01-2008, 02:25
I've had the thread up for a few hrs, no one posted yet... RP Thread here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=546910)
Kalmurstan
06-01-2008, 02:26
Is this happening? If so, where's the war?

It looks like something is going on here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=546910), but not a great deal. I think until we get some sort of details on sides, the causes of war, backstory, etc. we'll be playing a waiting game.

Heck, I don't even know if I'm involved! I requested to join, but haven't been added to the list (it's not up to date according to the linked thread), so I'm kind of in the dark. I'm guessing I'm in, since I've put my name down, but only time will tell.

EDIT: It also looks like imported_ViZion beat me to posting the link :P
imported_ViZion
06-01-2008, 02:28
As stated in that thread, those who applied are in.

My nets working for the moment - like I said in there, my net keeps giving me trouble and in 1 hr I g2g if my net holds...

I'd like to ask for NST'ers to help in setting up the sides so we can get it going.
imported_ViZion
06-01-2008, 02:30
DEFENDERS
Dynamic Revolution
Shesharlie
Brutland and Norden
Greal
Third Spanish States
Kalmurstan

OFFENDERS
Mi-Goh
Emmerican
Java-Minang
Miamoria
Turka-Sir
Shakal

Please post if you've applied but are not listed above and your side will be assigned.
Third Spanish States
06-01-2008, 02:37
I hope there can be some geographic and structural details which can be taken advantage of like:


Rivers
Hills
Mountains
Caves
Bridges
Tunnels
Woods


Any hints on the type of environment the conflict will happen into? I can help giving ideas for detailed maps of the battlefields, though maybe this is a bit too complex to the point of becoming a PBF Turn-based Strategy though I would love to see in II a well-detailed battlefield map with drawings symbolizing barracks, enemy buildings, etc.

Also can the defending side use a bit of "best defense is offense"?
imported_ViZion
06-01-2008, 02:56
I hope there can be some geographic and structural details which can be taken advantage of like:


Rivers
Hills
Mountains
Caves
Bridges
Tunnels
Woods


Any hints on the type of environment the conflict will happen into? I can help giving ideas for detailed maps of the battlefields, though maybe this is a bit too complex to the point of becoming a PBF Turn-based Strategy though I would love to see in II a well-detailed battlefield map with drawings symbolizing barracks, enemy buildings, etc.

Also can the defending side use a bit of "best defense is offense"?
You can absolutely take advantage of your natural defenses. You just can't say "Nobody can get through my mountains that surround my nation!" As for where it'll be happening, that's more upto you as a RPer. I'm not going to set a "It has to be here" rule, as most war RPs aren't setup to be in only one area of a nation when someone invades you - normally (the only ones that are like that are usually closed, and even in closed wars, it's normally as all-out sort like most...)

Thus, where the attackers choose to invade and launch their strikes is where it shall happen.

As for the "offense is the best defense", some nations on the defense can, if they're able to, launch an attack on the offensive nations - just like would happen in many multi-nation wars.

We're making this RP to be just like most war RPers, except for the fact it's training and has no effect on your nation when it's finished. Even so, do all that you can to win, as it'll teach you how to win when it counts.
imported_ViZion
06-01-2008, 03:10
Hey guys, g2g for the evening... if one or two NST'ers can finish getting the sides setup and answer any questions to get it going, please do so.

See ya.
Uiri
06-01-2008, 03:20
I think I will be on for about the next hour so I'll handle any questions/comments/concerns. I just wish to know why the it seems like smaller nations are on the offenders and bigger nations are defenders. Not that it matters to me, just wondering...
Daehanjeiguk
06-01-2008, 03:25
*clears throat*

Before any war starts, we must consider the factors that lead to a war.

(1) Some disagreement. It can range from the simple border dispute to the more hostile nationalist manifest destiny (or opposition to such). But no war gets rolling without a reason to fight. And it helps to have people who share your views. I personally don't favor the "pulling names from a hat" routine (this is in no way suggesting that the lots chosen are bad, but just not natural), but I think that we should get the players together and see what reason they could arrive to getting a war underway. Maybe one bloc shares the perspective that the world needs a free market system, opposed to the other bloc suggesting that a centrally planned economy is the way to go; maybe one bloc thinks that hot dogs are really frankfurters (or wieners) and, and the other bloc thinks that hamburgers are really Salisbury steaks. I don't know - some reason. Vegetarians against carnivores? Dogs against cats? Angels against demons? Violins against Violas? Any of those will work (of course, in a more established scenario, usually topics involving national interests are more appropriate).

(2) The pitch. Or the field. Or whatever you want to call wherever you're fighting. Geography influences a lot of warfare, so getting the right place to practice a wide variety of war zones would be ideal.

(3) Mobilization. Because you know armies don't pop up like daisies. It takes time to mobilize forces and deploy them to their theater of operations. Usually this follows the decision that a war is needed to resolve the issue, but I think that we've resolved to have a war before we've decided on the why (besides the obvious practice clause). But even for war games, countries prepare their forces being sent to exercise, so having some ORBAT (Order of Battle) would be useful to give a starting disposition of the forces involved (and not just numbers - units, equipment, commands, and positions).

(4) How long? Is this going to be a long war or a short war? The length of conflict will help to determine the over-all strategy that you should pursue. If you've got a small efficient military, your objective is to win quickly and absolutely, especially if your enemy is larger. Precision and efficiency are important in a short campaign. If you're technologically or logistically inferior to your enemy, you may want to consider a war of attrition. Usually, attrition hurts the better organized and bettered maintained force, so if you can afford a long war and the losses that accompany it, prolonged conflict is your route. While this doesn't necessarily determine whether or not you will fight or not, for the exercise, it would be useful to know what strategy you should use.

By this time, you realize that wars are a deep investment, both before and after. I'd take this moment to preach about the wonders of getting your military in order before you ever decide to go to war, because if you have all of the information necessary, mobilization and deployment is so much easier. Instead of giving us the ORBAT for each and every combat, you can maintain your own log of units, their equipment, their positions, and if you're really detailed and have the time to do so, their composition and command structure. The good thing about doing this in advance is that you get to use the same structure in future conflicts with little fuss. It also allows you to keep a check on your units in action. I think pretty much every seasoned warfighter on NS has an ORBAT somewhere, ready for use at a moment's notice.

I'd say solve these things first (among other things), and you're well on your way to having a great war exercise.
Shakal
06-01-2008, 05:58
Here is a map of my nation, its basically alot of fields, except of course the mountanis and coastal areas.

Note: I did not show wooded areas on the map.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5689/shakalmapni6.png
Third Spanish States
06-01-2008, 06:05
Before considering the factors that would lead a nation to invade mine(besides another "Call to Arms against Anarchists and Commies!!!!1111oneoneone"), I'll first start giving some OOC Military information: I'll use an early version of my nation for it with 415 millions rather than its current population nearing 500 millions inhabitants of official NS stats. Exact composition of forces are based on the Factbook available military data besides the information given here. Also my future plans is to design every single military hardware of my nation, though for now I'll have some bought things from RL military as equivalents to my future designs, and finally I'll have a establish Navy and Air Force for now(All those RL ships and aircrafts will be replaced by Third Spanish States own one day).

Numbers


Active Military

Army

Infantry: 116,000 (1000 Iron Columns, 500 mine-sweeping independent squads)
Vehicles: 71,200 (1000 Steel Striders, 400 S-400 Triumf vehicle launch systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_Triumf))
Special Forces: 37,000(6,000 Blackguards, 30,000 demolition/stealth experts, 1,000 hackers)
Anti-Air Missile Silos: 100
Fixed SAM turret platforms: 15,000
Radar Towers(Range 650km each): 145
Logistics: 430,000 personell and 10,000 support vehicles

Navy: Divided into 5 combined arms fleets and into 7 submarine town escorts

Aircraft Carriers and Amphibious Warfare

CC Oso Class Cruiser-Carrier (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1797&view=findpost&p=2777929): 25
LHD1 Juan Carlos I Carrier/Amphibious Assault Ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buque_de_Proyecci%C3%B3n_Estrat%C3%A9gica): 15
Gerarld R. Ford Class Carrier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CVN-21): 5
Galicia Class Amphibious Transport Dock (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/galicia): 30

Destroyers

Zumwalt Class Stealth Destroyer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zumwalt_class_destroyer): 15
Hobart Class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_air_warfare_destroyer): 35
Iroquois Class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_class_destroyer): 25

Frigates

Fridtjof Nansen Class Stealth Frigate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fridtjof_Nansen_class_frigate): 50
USS Freedom Littoral Combat Ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Freedom_%28LCS-1%29): 70
USS Independence Littoral Combat Ship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Independence_%28LCS-2%29): 100

Cruisers

Oso Class Cruiser-Carrier
Ticonderoga Class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticonderoga_class_cruiser): 30

Submarines

Virginia Class Attack Submarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_class_submarine): 85
Ohio class Ballistic Missile Submarine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_class_submarine): 25

Corvettes and Patrol Boats

Braunschweig Class Stealth Corvette (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig_class_corvette): 50
Skjold class patrol boat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skjold_class_patrol_boat): 100

Minesweepers/Minehunters

Ensdorf Class Minesweeper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensdorf_class_minesweeper): 25
Kulmbach Class Minehunter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulmbach_class_mine_hunter): 20

Airplanes/Helicopters

F-35B STOVL Multi-role Fighter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35_Lightning_II#F-35B): 850
EA-18 Growler Electronic Warfare Airplane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA-18_Growler): 250
P-8 Poseidon Multimission Marine Aircraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-8_Poseidon): 100
EH101 Anti-submarine Warfare/Utility Helicopter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EH101): 250
MH-60R Seahawk Multimission Helicopter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SH-60_Seahawk#MH-60R_Seahawk): 400
E-2D Advanced Hawkeye AEW (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_Hawkeye#E-2D_Advanced_Hawkeye): 20


Air Force

Attack Airplanes

A-10C Thunderbolt II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II#Upgrades): 550
A-12R Avenger III (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-12_Avenger_II): 250

Anti-submarine/Multimission Littoral-based Helicopters

EH101 Anti-submarine Warfare/Utility Helicopter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EH101): 250
MH-60R Seahawk Multimission Helicopter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SH-60_Seahawk#MH-60R_Seahawk): 550

Attack Helicopters

Kamov Ka-50-2 Erdogan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamov_Ka-52#Ka-50-2_Erdogan): 800
Mil Mi-28N (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mil_Mi-28#Variants): 550

Bombers

B-1R Lancer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-1_Lancer#B-1R) Strategic Bomber: 150
BS-3 Schwab (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2_Spirit#Recent_events) Heavy Stealth Bomber: 50
FB-22 Medium Stealth Bomber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FB-22): 100

Transport

Antonov An-124 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-124) Transport Plane: 155
BAe 125 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Aerospace_C-29#Military_operators): 350
AST-40 Underground (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2_Spirit#Specifications_.28B-2A_Block_30.29) Stealth Transport Plane: 45
V-22 Osprey Multimission STOVL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-22): 80
DHC-7 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada_Dash_7) STOL Regional Airliner: 450

Transport Helicopter

CH-53K Super Stallion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CH-53E_Super_Stallion#CH-53K) Heavy Lift Helicopter: 170
EH-101 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EH101#Royal_Air_Force) Medium-lift Transport Helicopter: 390

Drones

Watchkeeper WK450 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watchkeeper_WK450) ISTAR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISTAR) UAV: 115
RQ-4 Global Hawk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RQ-4_Global_Hawk) Surveillance UAV: 80
CQ-10 Snowgoose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CQ-10_Snowgoose) Cargo delivery UAV: 70
MQ-9 Reaper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MQ-9) Surveillance/Attack UAV: 42
RQ-11 Raven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RQ-11_Raven) Miniature Recon UAV: 15,000
RQ-14 Dragon Eye (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Eye) Miniature Recon UAV: 1,000

Electronic Warfare

E-10 MC2A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-10_MC2A) AEW&C (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airborne_Early_Warning_and_Control): 80
EA-18 Growler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EA-18_Growler) Electronic Warfare Airplane: 1,500

Fighters

F-35A Lightning II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35#F-35A) Heavy Multi-role CTOL: 1,500
F-35B Lightning II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-35#F-35B) Heavy Multi-role STOVL: 1,000
F-20R Shadowshark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-20) Light Air Superiority Fighter: 1,800
F-22 Raptor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22#Specifications_.28F-22_Raptor.29) Medium Air Superiority Fighter: 1,200


LASER(Experimental)

YAL-1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1) Airborne Laser Weapons System: 25

Patrol

P-8 Poseidon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-8_Poseidon) Multimission Marine Aircraft: 150

Refueling

KC-767 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_KC-767) Tanker: 65



Reserves:

Manpower: 250,000
M1117 Armored Security Vehicles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1117_Armored_Security_Vehicle): 5,000

Civilian Militias

Manpower: Estimated 41,500,000
Armaments: FA-65 Assault Rifle (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1831), A-31 Light Machinegun, GEM Guided Missile Launcher, makeshift weapons.
Technicals (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_%28fighting_vehicle%29): Estimated 10,375,000
Improvised Recon UAVs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio-controlled_aircraft): Estimated 25,000



About the Militias, they usually schedule combat training and/or paintball matches on the weekends. And I'll reconsider previous statements: the Navy and Air Force are probably larger than the Army.
Brutland and Norden
06-01-2008, 06:44
*edits map*

You can use the map of Brutland and Norden, the more detailed road map (http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/984/brutlandandnordenroadmaqb1.gif) and simpler road-less one (http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8452/brutlandandnordensansrojr9.gif) here [warning: BIG MAPS!; click to enlarge]. Since I'm on the defender side, you can invade [yep, I'm allowing this 'cause this won't change anything anyway] for whatever reason, prolly 'cause you just feel like it or you are greedy for more land.

The drawback is, I won't be posting much during the first week [lots and lots of stuff to do in RL], and you need me if you're gonna RP invading my nation, so...

I don't know. It's up to you guys. :D
Brutland and Norden
06-01-2008, 07:05
Brutland and Norden's military is in my factbook (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=546056) (posts 11-14).
Third Spanish States
06-01-2008, 07:29
*edits map*

You can use the map of Brutland and Norden, the more detailed road map (http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/984/brutlandandnordenroadmaqb1.gif) and simpler road-less one (http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8452/brutlandandnordensansrojr9.gif) here [warning: BIG MAPS!; click to enlarge]. Since I'm on the defender side, you can invade [yep, I'm allowing this 'cause this won't change anything anyway] for whatever reason, prolly 'cause you just feel like it or you are greedy for more land.

The drawback is, I won't be posting much during the first week [lots and lots of stuff to do in RL], and you need me if you're gonna RP invading my nation, so...

I don't know. It's up to you guys. :D

Whoever invades you will need some serious early reconaissance to find the best shore invasion point beforehand. Now I sadly suck at mapmaking(This is my map in comparison (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9229/tssmapmc4.jpg), and I still didn't add the Early PMT underwater towns and floating cities), is there someone still active making maps by request in II?
Brutland and Norden
06-01-2008, 07:35
Whoever invades you will need some serious early reconaissance to find the best shore invasion point beforehand. Now I sadly suck at mapmaking(This is my map in comparison (http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9229/tssmapmc4.jpg), and I still didn't add the Early PMT underwater towns and floating cities), is there someone still active making maps by request in II?
The drawback probably is that I have a very long coastline to defend. :(

Your map's great, actually. I do not know if there is someone who makes maps. I've seen some threads on that occasionally both in II and Gameplay, but the last time I've seen one was a few months ago. ;)
Turka-Sir
06-01-2008, 18:22
Do the attackers need to post a map/make a description of their land as well?
Uiri
06-01-2008, 18:25
For defenders' retaliation purposes, so yes. I think it wise to have those kinds of maps handy anyways because you might do something you'll regret which causes someone to declare war on you for real.
Gurguvungunit
06-01-2008, 19:35
Alternatively, and to make this go more quickly, we could just arbitrarily assign them nations in Europe (just for geographical stuff) and have them go at it. That way, there's no question of 'this geography is ridiculous, tectonics don't work that way' etc.

Dunno, it's an idea.
Third Spanish States
06-01-2008, 21:08
I've completed a detailed map of Third Spanish States with the submarine towns and floating cities also added, here it is:

http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3346/completemapls8.jpg

I used some creative liberties as I believe nothing replaces a river as a source of drinkable water and thus through damming and engineering they've constructed some artificial rivers and lakes as well, most of them covered by woods and Riparian Forests.

I'll be adding the Air Force soon.
Shesharlie
06-01-2008, 23:08
Here's my military for check and IC reference.

Ill' try to update this (or add posts) to keep track of my military status.

All values have been taken on January 6,2008 and will be used throughout the RP.
Population: 723,000,000 people
Defense Budget: $585,573,340,846.53
GDP Per Capita: $4,908.50

So Ill be using about $450,00,000,000 for active soldiers (shesharlie uses lots of foreign technologies, so research has a comparatively small budget) and $8,000 for soldier's wage.

Military Force: 56,250,000 total
Active Duty: 18,750,000 (1/3 of total)
Reserves: 37,500,000 (2/3 of total)
*Note: Shesharlie DOES have a 1-year conscription when a male turns 18. So if a Draft were placed, I would have a military more prepared than say, the US with a draft. In retrospect, the Reserve Forces are significantly higher.

ARMY
500 Leopard 2 Main Battle Tanks
680 M3 Bradley Fighting Vehicle
560 LAV 25 APC
900 Vextra 105 Armored Patrol Vehicle
1600 M777 mobile Howitzers
200 M270 MLRS
400 PzH 2000 Tank Howitzers
300 M1097 Avengers
200 MIM-104 Patriots
500 SA-22 Greyhounds
65,000 Trucks, HUMVEEs and logistics vehicles
1200 Iron heart APCs
1200 Iron Heart IFVs
400 Iron Heart ATMGs
100 Iron Heart Command post
400 Iron Heart Mortars
400 Iron Heart Ambulances
1000 Iron Heart SAMs
9000 Battle transport Trucks
1000 TRA-92 "Eiko" Light Attack Helicopters
18 LY4030 TEL,
18 LY4031 TEL,
18 4032 TEL,
112 LY4030 missiles,
288 LY4031 missiles
36 LY4032 “Rampart” missiles
2 Moat
2 Bastion,
2 Keep,
2 BCCV.
63 PAMV
10000 HEMT Trucks

Air Corp:
30 SiK-7S
200 Su-37
300 Su-35
300 F-15
30 F-F-15 IFCS
50 A-10C
20 B-52H
10 B-1B
300 C-130J
15 AC-130H
30 KC-130J
20 LC-130J
11 EWR VJ 101


NAVY
2 Hasley Class Super Dreadnoughts (SN-Alteri and SN-Litz)
1 Iowa Class Battleship (1985 refit) (SN-Radical)
5 Slicer Class Carriers DMG product
3 Queen Elizabeth Class Carriers (SN-Ridge, SN-Valley, SN-Plain)
4 Yekaterina Class Cruisers (SN-Jackal, SN-Hound, SN-Fox, SN-Wolf)
4 Storm Class Cruisers DMG product
5 Ticonderoga Class Cruisers (SN-Cypher, SN-Mobius, SN-Blaze,SN-Pixy)
4 Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers (SN-089 SN-064 SN-071 SN-050)
5 Sovremenny Class General Purpose Destroyers
4 Ulyanov Class Destroyers
3 Udaloy II Class ASW Destroyers
12 Type 23 Class Frigates
4 modified Al Riyadh (F3000S Sawari II) Class Frigates
16 Virginia Class Attack Submarines
8 Typhoon Class Ballistic Missile Submarines
10 San Antonio Class amphibious transport dock (LPD)
70 All-purpose cargo ships
60 Troop transport ships
40 All-purpose tender craft

Naval Aircraft:
60 F/A-18E Super Hornet Fighter jets
50 S-3 Viking Attack jets
10 F/A-103 Stanza Strike Fighter jets
10 V-22 Osprey aircraft
20 EC-2 Panther helicopters
16 EC-1 Tiger helicopters
10 EA-18 Growler jets
8 RC-2 Global Hawk UAVs
8 E-2 Hawkeye aircraft

Sound alright?


EDIT: a map (http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/9484/novamappj9.jpg) of Shesharlie.
Kalmurstan
07-01-2008, 02:56
Sorry in advance for this huge list type post thingy. This is pretty much my entire active army. Reserves (and eventually a map) can wait for my brain to stop hurting :p

Ground Forces
Armoured Force

3 MBT = Section
2 Section = Platoon
4 Platoon = Company
4 Company = Regiment

27x T-55
68x T-62
88x T-64
82x T-72
41x T-80
14x T-90

10 Regiment

Mechanised Infantry

3 APC + 21 men = Section
4 Section = Platoon
4 Platoon = Company
6 Company = Regiment

128x BTR-60
272x BTR-70
544x BTR-80
256x MT-LB

9 Regiments

Armoured Infantry

3 IFV + 21 men = Section
4 Section = Platoon
4 Platoon = Company
6 Company = Regiment

518x BMP-1
778x BMP-2
432x BMP-3

6 Regiments

Light Infantry

7 Men = Section
4 Section = Platoon
4 Platoon = Company
6 Company = Regiment

17 Regiments

Air-Mobile Infantry

7 Men = Section
4 Section = Platoon
4 Platoon = Company
6 Company = Regiment

64x Mi-24 "Hind-D"
32x Ka-60

4 Regiment

Arctic Wolves (Spec-Ops)

6 Men = Section
4 Section = Platoon
3 Platoon = Company
4 Company = Regiment

36x Mi-24D "Hind D"
36x GAZ-3937 "Vodnik"

3 Regiments

Recon Force

4 Men = Section
3 Section = Platoon
4 Platoon = Company
6 Company = Regiment

Recon Vehicles (Crew drawn from recon force)
16x BRDM-2
10x PT-76
15x GAZ-3937 "Vodnik"
16x UAZ-469

1 Regiment

Artillery Force

4 Art = Section
3 Section = Platoon
4 Platoon = Company
4 Company = Regiment

60x D-30 2A18M 122-mm
96x M-46 130-mm
36x 2A65 (M1987) 152-mm
82x 2S3 M-1973 Akatsiya
84x 2S19 MSTA-S 152-mm
36x 2S7 203-mm
48x TOS-1
60x 9P140 Uragan
48x 9K51 BM-21 Grad (Hail)
36x 9A52-2 BM-30 Smerch

3 Regiments

Air Defence Force

3 AAV = Section
3 Section = Platoon
4 Platoon = Company
4 Company = Regiment

144x ZSU-23-4 "Shilka"
108x Tunguska-M1
108x SA-8 GECKO
72x SA-13 GOPHER
144x SA-15 GAUNTLET

4 Regiments

Total Army Size
101,071

Air Force

Tactical Bomber Group

4 Aircraft = Flight
4 Flight = Squadron
3 Squadron = Wing
6 Wing = Group

320x Su-24
256x Su-34

2 Groups

Stratigic Bomber Group

2 Aircraft = Flight
4 Flight = Squadron
3 Squadron = Wing
6 Wing = Group

36x Tu-22M
24x Tu-95
12x Tu-160

1 Group

Recon Group

2 Aircraft = Flight
3 Flight = Squadron
3 Squadron = Wing
4 Wing = Group

56x Su-24MR
16x MiG-25

2 Groups

Transport Group

2 Aircraft = Flight
4 Flight = Squadron
4 Squadron = Wing
6 Wing = Group

96x Il-76
4x An-22 Antey
56x An-72
36x An-124 Ruslan

3 Groups

Fighter Group

6 Aircraft = Flight
4 Flight = Squadron
4 Squadron = Wing
6 Wing = Group

178x Su-27
92x Su-30
38x Su-33
416x Su-34
20x Su-35
22x MiG-29
22x MiG-31

6 Groups

Tanker Group
9x IL-78

1 Group

AWACS Group

5x A-50 Shmel

1 Group

Total Airforce Size
15,960

Naval Forces

Northern Fleet
1x Admiral Kuznetsov Class heavy aircraft carrying cruiser
* 12x Su-33
* 5x Su-25
* 6x Ka-27
* 18x Ka-29
1x Moskva Class helicopter carrier
* 14x Ka-25
2x Kilo class submarine
1x Golf class submarine
1x Juliett class submarine
2x Akula class submarine
2x Kresta I Class cruiser
2x Kresta II Class cruiser
2x Slava class cruiser
1x Sovremenny Class destroyer
2 x Kashin class destroyer
1x Udaloy class destroyer
1x Kirov Class Battlecruiser
2x Ivan Rogov class Amphibious Warfare ship

Eastern Fleet
1x Kiev Class aircraft carrier
* 13x Yak-38
* 10x Ka-27
* 7x Ka-25
3x Kilo class submarine
1x Juliett class submarine
1x Kynda Class cruiser
1x Kresta I Class cruiser
2x Kresta II Class cruiser
1x Slava class cruiser
2x Kashin class destroyer
2x Udaloy class destroyer
1x Kirov Class Battlecruiser
1x Ivan Rogov class Amphibious Warfare ship

Southern Fleet
1x Kiev Class aircraft carrier
* 13x Yak-38
* 10x Ka-27
* 7x Ka-25
4x Kilo class submarine
1x Juliett class submarine
1x Kynda Class cruiser
1x Kresta I Class cruiser
2x Kresta II Class cruiser
1x Slava class cruiser
2x Kashin class destroyer
2x Udaloy class destroyer
1x Kirov Class Battlecruiser
1x Ivan Rogov class Amphibious Warfare ship

Total Navy Size
31,733

Total Military Size
148,764

Any comments, suggestions, questions and constructive criticism welcome. I know it seems small, (0.2% or so of my role-played population of roughly 70 million) that's intentional. I'm trying to represent a nation just coming out of a civil war and in the process of rebuilding its forces. As for why someone might want to invade us. Well, we're "damn Commies" and we're small. Two fairly clear cut reasons. Obviously we have questionable policies, the resistance was put down harshly (executions and labour camps for all!) and did I mention we're Red's and we may very well be hinding under your bed!
Greal
07-01-2008, 02:57
I'm just not in a mood to post my whole military.:D
Kalmurstan
07-01-2008, 03:05
I'm just not in a mood to post my whole military.:D

The way my head feels, I wish I hadn't either, but once I'd started, it felt wrong to stop :p
Greal
07-01-2008, 03:05
The way my head feels, I wish I hadn't either, but once I'd started, it felt wrong to stop :p

I suppose I could write up a small portion of the military
imported_ViZion
07-01-2008, 03:43
Alternatively, and to make this go more quickly, we could just arbitrarily assign them nations in Europe (just for geographical stuff) and have them go at it. That way, there's no question of 'this geography is ridiculous, tectonics don't work that way' etc.

Dunno, it's an idea.
True, but it seems most have figured out their map (and starting to figure out their military) now... just looks like the actual start of this RP will be a few days later than expected.

Oh well, looks like this could be much better than expected actually. :)

And Greal, keep in mind once ya get at least a basic outline of your forces, you'll be set and can update it when needed w/ much less work required. ;)
Greal
07-01-2008, 03:45
True, but it seems most have figured out their map (and starting to figure out their military) now... just looks like the actual start of this RP will be a few days later than expected.

Oh well, looks like this could be much better than expected actually. :)

And Greal, keep in mind once ya get at least a basic outline of your forces, you'll be set and can update it when needed w/ much less work required. ;)

Okay I'll be writing something up later.
Emmerican
07-01-2008, 20:40
Just thought i'd post the troops taking part from my side:

A battlion = 100 men
A regiment = 50 men

Special forces company Alpha.

5 battalions of project:gamma

8 Parachute regiments

Both are equipped with an emmerican made armour (resembling that of the halo's ODST armour with built in team comm via helmet aswell as camera and flashlight,
aswell as having extensive guerilla fighting and sabotage techniques.)

Alpha company and bravo company both have:



10 battalions of republican guards (heavily armoured soldiers wielding your standard m4/m8 carbine.)

5 regiments of striking cobra's (resembling most modern day armed forces grunts in countrys such as britain and america except, they are specialised in sabotage.)

15 regiments of honorary engineers (equipped same as striking cobra's yet specialised in vechicular repair)





vehicle convoy alpha bravo and charlie each consist of :

12 Leopard 2A6 tanks with snow camoflage
5 Humvees all equipped with 0.50cal machine guns
and 3 Seach and rescue vechicles.


Navy

Is pretty much non existant but contains:

but since we are more specialised in destruction we shall send 2 halycron long range super dreadnought class ships (emmerican custom made) from our fleets to assist troops.
and we have commandered 10 civilains boats which we will use to transport our soldiers when the coast line is secure

air force.

We are still building our airforce and those not used in defence are used when facing alot of danger so i''l provide my troops with as much as I can without weakening myself.

contains 2 AC-130 gunships.
and 8 C-5A/B Galaxy.

If my math is right i should be below my total forces.
My miltary are a small elite fighting force that are there to cut the head off the snake and make a quick retreat into the shadows before being noticed.

The map

About the map i'm not good at maps and wouldn't know where to start, so i'm assuming if its okay with everyone I can take the role of a country similar to the netherlands.
Kalmurstan
08-01-2008, 02:39
OK, so I've got a rough map, which you can find here (http://www.exiledwolf.co.uk/kalmurstan/kalmurstanmap.jpg). (North is towards the top, btw)

It's not the prettiest map by any stretch of the imagination, but it gives you an idea of where my major cities are, where the only real mountains are, and... not much else :D. Maybe I should use words to improve matters some.

Apart from the mountains to the east, which reach just over 2000m (6,560ft) at their peaks, the rest of the country is pretty much rolling hills that don't reach much over 500m (1,640ft) at the highest.

I know I've left rivers off the map, that's because I'm too lazy to work out where they'd flow. The same goes for lakes, I've not figured out where I'd like them to sit. I might change that over the next few days, but I'm not promising anything :p.

As always, if you have any questions, just ask!
Shakal
08-01-2008, 03:14
Well, 99% of my military is on NS Wiki...
If its not up I will try and write some out, but if I can I want to salvage as much as possible.
EDIT: Well, here are the numbers in next post, sadly all the custom info for my designs is also on wiki...
Shakal
08-01-2008, 05:50
Here is my military as short as I could possibly make it. Equipment is at the end. Except ships, they are in the navy breakdown.

Military Manpower: 135,000 - 5% Of Population
Standing Military: 27,000,000 (1%)
Reserve Manpower: 13,500,000 (0.05%)
Logistics And Supply Manpower: 94,500,000 (3.5%)

Standing Military Breakdown:
-Heer (Army): 23 Million
-Luftwaffe (Airforce): 1 Million [Includes Air Cavalry And Paratroopers]
-Kriegsmarine (Navy): 3 Million [Includes Marines]

Heer Breakdown
Total: 23 Million
[I]Divisional Types:
-15,000,000:Motorized Infantry
-4,608,000:Mechanzed Infantry
-240,000:Armored
-450,000:Light Infantry
-1,375,000:Mountain Infantry
-52,000:HQ Infantry
Division Numbers:
Mot. Inf:1000
Mech. Inf:400
Pcr:30
Lgt:60
Mtn:110
HQ:26
Brigade Numbers:
350-Self Propelled Artillery:420,000
250-Tank Destroyer:200,000
150-Rocket Artilley:75,000
50-Field Hospitals:5,000
150-Anti-Air:150,000
200-Military Police:300,000
100-Engineer:125,000

10 Men = Squad
10 Squads = Company
5 Companies = Battalion
10 Battalions = Regiment
5 Regiments = Brigade
3 Brigades = Division
3-5 Divisions = Corps
2-6 Corps = Army
2+ Armies = Army Group
2+ Army Groups = Army Front

Troop Breakdown:
Motorized Infantry
Troops: 15,000
Non-Tracked Veichles:
-550 Various Truck Models
-50 Armored "Cars"
Tracked Veichles:
-100 IFV
-150 APC
Other Veichles: 50

Mechanized Infantry
Troops: 12,000
Tracked Veichles:
-250 IFV
-500 APC
Other Veichles: 50

Armored Division
Troops: 8,000
Tracked Veichles:
-100 IFV
-150 APC
Tanks:
-1000 [Sounds High But I Only Have 30 Of These Divisions]

Light Division (Also Called Urban Division)
Troops: 7,500
Non-Tracked Veichles: 250
Tracked Veichles:
-30 IFV
-220 Urban War Veichles (Smaller Tanks With Better APS)

Mountain Division
Troops: 12,500
Non-Tracked Veichles:
-400 Various Shakal Military Trucks
-100 Armored Cars
Tracked Veichles:
-125 Mountain IFV
-75 Mountain APC

HQ Division
Troops: 2,000
Veichles:
-50 Command Veichles
-150 IFV
-50 APC

Brigades
Self Propelled Artillery
Troops: 1,200
Weapon Units:
-90 SPG (155mm)
-40 SPG (180mm)

Tank Destroyer
Troops: 800
Weapon Units:
-40 Archibald = 155mm
-30 Juggernaut = 140mm
-80 Melody = 180mm

Rocket Artillery
Troops: 500
Weapon Units:
-40 Rocket Viechle Trucks
-10 IFV

Field Hospital
Troops: 100
Medics And Other Personell: 400

Anti-Air
Troops:1,000
Anti-Air Pieces:
-60 Tracked 40mm Quads
-140 Tracked Portable SAM (3 Missles Each)

Military-Police:
Personell:1,500
150 Urban War Viechles

Engineer:
Personell:1,250
200 Engineering Viechles

Luftwaffe Breakdown
Airborne Troops:10 Divisions (80,000)
Air Cavalry Troops: 20 Divisions (240,000)
Pilots: 35,000 (Includes Helicopter And Recon)
Repair Crews: 645,000

Divisional Breakdowns:
Airborne
Troops:8,000
Viechles:200 (Not Including Aircraft)
-40 IFV
-60 APC
-100 Urban Warfare Viechles

Air Cavalry
Troops:12,000
Viechles: 500
-50 Urban Warfare Veichles
-200 Apache Attack Helicoptors
-50 Chinook Transport Helicoptors
-100 Tiger II Attack Helicoptors
-100 Buluga Transport Helicoptors

Kriegsmarine Breakdown
Total:3 Milion
Marines: 20 Divisions (400,000)
Sailors:1,600,000
Repair Crews:1,000,000

Ships: (This May Scare You A Little)

2 Super Capital (28-30inch Guns, 20k Crew)
8 Sunrise Strongpoint Ships (Totally Missle Armed SC Vessels, 2k Crew)
10 Super Carrier Vessels (180 Aircraft Each, 5k Crew)
30 Escort Carrier Vessels (Nimitz Class Carriers)
50 Heavy Cruisers (8-20inch Guns, Heavy Armor)
200 Missle Cruisers (30 Tomahawk Cruise Missles, 2-6inch Guns)
200 Light Cruisers (18 Tomahawk Cruise Missles, 8inch Gun)
500 Destroyers
2000 Smaller Vessels (Frigates, Corvettes, And Coastal Defence Ships)

200 Tanker Ships
300 Logistics Supply Ships
500 Transport Vessels

Veichles And Other Equipment

Artillery
-PzHr 2000 155mm SPG
-Panscrier-12 170mm SPG
-M109 Paladin 155mm SPG
-Panscrier-10 SPRA
-Panscrier-13 SPRA

IFV
-kPcR-08
-kPcR-12
-M1 Bradley (Declining Numbers)

APC
-gPcR-10
-gPcR-12
-gPcR-14

Tanks
-1A1 Nakil
-PcR V Auf-F2 (140mm Main)
-PcR VI Auf-C (Suffers From Technical Problems)
-PcR VI Auf-D (Prototype, 130mm HV Main)

Urban Warfare Veichles
-uPcR II Auf-B (60mm HV Fast Cannon)
-uPcR II Auf-C (64mm HV Fast Cannon)

Tank Destroyers
-40 Archibald (155mm Main Fixed)
-30 Juggernaut (140mm HV Main Fixed)
-80 Melody (180mm Main Turreted, New But Well Tried)

Multi-Role Fighters
-Su-37 Terminator
-F-22/A Raptor
-X-02 Wyvern
-Su-45s
-LPcR-12 Wasp

Interceptors
-LPcR-14 Condor
-F-35

CAS
-LPcR-11 Pelican
-F-15S Strike Eagle

Strategic Bimbers
-SLPcR-15 Avro
-SLPcR-16 Avro II
-B-2 Spirt
Greal
08-01-2008, 07:20
Heres a basic outline of my military that I will be using for this rp.

Basic Outline

Standing Military: 22,500,000
Reserve: 25,000,000+
Logistics Personnel: 16,100,000 (Reserve Included)

Military

Army: 17,500,000
Air Force: 1,500,000
Navy: 3,500,000

Divisions (Each Greal Division has 30,000 men)

Total divisions: 583 divisions (+ 1 brigade) (And 833 Reserve divisions and 1 reserve brigade included)

(OOC: I'll add the rest later)
Greal
08-01-2008, 07:30
They'll fall to my ten thousands of badass airplanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:RQ-11_Raven_2.jpg)!
:rolleyes:

(Couldn't resist)

You want to see the number of my aircraft? :D

And you are on my side.......:sniper:
Third Spanish States
08-01-2008, 07:30
Heres a basic outline of my military that I will be using for this rp.

Basic Outline

Standing Military: 22,500,000
Reserve: 25,000,000+
Logistics Personnel: 16,100,000 (Reserve Included)

Military

Army: 17,500,000
Air Force: 1,500,000
Navy: 3,500,000

Divisions (Each Greal Division has 30,000 men)

Total divisions: 583 divisions (+ 1 brigade) (And 833 Reserve divisions and 1 reserve brigade included)

(OOC: I'll add the rest later)

They'll fall to my ten thousands of badass airplanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:RQ-11_Raven_2.jpg)!
:rolleyes:

(Couldn't resist)
Dynamic Revolution
08-01-2008, 09:18
Do yall really want a complete list of my military? Suffice it to say i'm going to be reasonable.

On another not, Defenders.....we need a name....like "The Allies". That way we can be referred to rather quickley, and with spiff
Java-Minang
08-01-2008, 09:52
Basic Outlines (Still not too good at this one)

Standing army : 250.302
Reserve: 600.001
Infantry: 114.200 foot infantry, Generally armed with SS2, (The new Indonesian-made AR, In RL!) as 5 men in the 7-man squad use it...
Tanks: 4300 tanks, with 20.245 men in there (including reserve)

* AMX-13,
* FV101 Scorpion (most with 90mm guns),
* Alvis Stormer AVLB,
* Commando Ranger,
* Alvis Saladin,
* Ferret armoured car,
* Commando Scout,
* Commando Stormer,
* AMX-VCI MICV,
* AMX-VTT,
* Alvis Saracen (14 upgraded),
* V-150 Commando,
* BTR-40S (Modified),
* Renault VAB,
* Panhard VBL,
* pindad APS,pindad APR.
* Heavy armored Badak (Rhino) tank, prototupe.
Navy: 53 light class ship, 14 frigate, and 2 submarine.
Airforce:
5 bombers, 24 fighter (Yea I'm short of these)..
Logistics: 400.000 men.
Dynamic Revolution
08-01-2008, 21:09
I just did a little research and the playing field is deffinetly one sided... Greal is huge, me and spanish are approaching 700 million...it seems very one sided. Any chance of leveling it?
Daehanjeiguk
08-01-2008, 21:17
haha...

let me ask you guys a question:

since when has any country mobilized its entire armed force for war?

Unless you're counting all of those times where the states were annexed and had a fight for survival, you probably don't find it all too often.

I don't think anyone is expecting anyone to send the armada and the air force. If the United States mobilized its entire armed force and sent them all to Iraq, Iran, North Korea, and pretty much the rest of the world would be having a party right now.

Now, if you guys are just posting your armed forces stats, that's nice too. But at this point, you're staring at the face of war - the rest of the world only needs your mobilization orders, that is those armed forces that will be participating in the conflict itself. For God's sake, do not send your entire army. Post up an expeditionary unit to be sent to fight (or if you're defending, a list of units on defense).

If latter on in the conflict you discover you need more men (and indeed, in protracted conflicts, you will find that you need more men), send the mobilization orders for more men.

Why am I saying this?


Well, believe it or not, mobilizing troops for deployment and conflict costs a lot of money. More than maintaining. Any conflict that is far from home is especially expensive. If you mobilize your entire armed forces for conflict abroad, you're going to find that your resources are (1) in short supply; (2) frequently wasted on units that aren't needed; and (3) subject to inflation (as you need more, you don't have more, you need to buy more, the price suddenly shoots up, you can't afford as much as you used to afford). Keeping a force that is as large as you need to be is the way to having your economy and your military achieve wartime efficiency.

Now, whoever among you geniuses can tell me what the threshold is for what size mobilization order you should have is going to win a life-time supply of cookies if you get the answer right. I don't know the answer, and if I did, I'd have a job at the Pentagon right now, telling them what a whacked job they've done for the past thirty years.



Anyway, as long as we're on the topic, we can get down to the business of deciding why you guys are going to have this war (besides the obvious). It seems that much of my economics lecture didn't sink in.




What might be a useful tool also is an example by more seasoned war RPers. That way, others have an idea of what to do and to make some imitations. Setting a good role model while having fun too.
The Philippiniada
08-01-2008, 21:29
sign me up for the defenders please...
Shesharlie
08-01-2008, 21:35
Since all of the participants are displaying their military forces, I think that they all should be checked and verified as valid and attainable numbers. From calculating according to Daehanjeiguk's method found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13337102&postcount=35), I found that I had estimated my active forces 300% of what I would have liked.

That said, I think calculating military based on the defense budget and not based on total population is a far more accurate way of figuring out what forces you have at your disposal.
Kalmurstan
08-01-2008, 21:43
haha...

let me ask you guys a question:

since when has any country mobilized its entire armed force for war?

--snip--

Anyway, as long as we're on the topic, we can get down to the business of deciding why you guys are going to have this war (besides the obvious). It doesn't seem that much of my economics lecture didn't sink in.

First off, mobilisation of a whole army is a very expensive hobby. Agreed. I don't think there's anyone, anywhere, who could realistically deploy their entire military to a conflict. Not that I know why anybody would want to, since then you're leaving the door open for someone else to invade your undefended nation. Country Swap anyone?

My full list is there so people know exactly what I can pull out should everything go severely sideways. If they turn 960 tanks into scrap, that's every tank in my army. It stops me pulling regiment after regiment from out of one orifice or another.

As for any ones reasons for war against me, I think I might have mentioned them before in passing, but I'll run through them again in a little more detail. Apart from the apparent II staple of "kill the kommies!!!1!!11", I'm tiny. I'n not the 500+ million nation of the page, I'm the considerably smaller 70ish million nation. Someone might fancy my frosty island as a new piece of their nation. I'm sure I have some natural resources somewhere :). I've got a fair bit of industry which might be worth something to someone, although right now they're churning out TV sets so every citizen gets their daily dose of Communist "Information" *coughpropagandacough*.

I'm also a dictatorship, and I'm sure some nations would love to change that, especially since most of the internal attempts at change end up with several hundred people being chained up and shot. For some reason members of the international community don't like nations executing civilians without trials...
imported_ViZion
08-01-2008, 21:53
Updated, Greal moved to offensive and Phil added.
Third Spanish States
08-01-2008, 21:57
Let's suppose Third Spanish States supported the Red Skulls.

Air Force: 1,500,000

I hope it's in number of military personell rather than in number of airplanes.

Things are going to get really nasty.
Daehanjeiguk
08-01-2008, 22:23
Since all of the participants are displaying their military forces, I think that they all should be checked and verified as valid and attainable numbers. From calculating according to Daehanjeiguk's method found here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13337102&postcount=35), I found that I had estimated my active forces 300% of what I would have liked.

That said, I think calculating military based on the defense budget and not based on total population is a far more accurate way of figuring out what forces you have at your disposal.

Well, you need both. In general, however, your economy will limit your military capacities before your population will. It's just a matter of economics - people are cheaper than capital. But thanks for noticing this point, and you've taken the first step to making a respectable and realistic fighting force! Not only respectable and realistic, also more reliable too!

First off, mobilisation of a whole army is a very expensive hobby. Agreed. I don't think there's anyone, anywhere, who could realistically deploy their entire military to a conflict. Not that I know why anybody would want to, since then you're leaving the door open for someone else to invade your undefended nation. Country Swap anyone?

My full list is there so people know exactly what I can pull out should everything go severely sideways. If they turn 960 tanks into scrap, that's every tank in my army. It stops me pulling regiment after regiment from out of one orifice or another.

As for any ones reasons for war against me, I think I might have mentioned them before in passing, but I'll run through them again in a little more detail. Apart from the apparent II staple of "kill the kommies!!!1!!11", I'm tiny. I'n not the 500+ million nation of the page, I'm the considerably smaller 70ish million nation. Someone might fancy my frosty island as a new piece of their nation. I'm sure I have some natural resources somewhere :). I've got a fair bit of industry which might be worth something to someone, although right now they're churning out TV sets so every citizen gets their daily dose of Communist "Information" *coughpropagandacough*.

I'm also a dictatorship, and I'm sure some nations would love to change that, especially since most of the internal attempts at change end up with several hundred people being chained up and shot. For some reason members of the international community don't like nations executing civilians without trials...

Well, you're on the right track. But I never said anything bad about posting all of your military information; I just mentioned that it's more worthwhile to post your mobilization orders so people know what they're going to fight. Trust me - people can be incredibly stupid (and by 'can be', I really mean 'are). If you post your full battle regalia for them to see, they're going to think that that's what you're sending to fight them. And despite what the literacy scores suggest, people can't (edit: don't) read. I'm one of those people too, so I'm taking this from personal experience (actually, there's two lessons here: 1. read what you're looking at, and 2. if there's room for error, Murphy's law applies).

Anyway, I've said it , and I know that others here have said it too: having your ORBAT information is very useful for managing your armed forces. So I suppose once people have gotten their military affairs in order (preferably in good order), we can manage what's a good mobilization order (although I again admit that the science behind it is really just a fancy art with a lot of numbers - hence, martial arts).

And another point, now that I see plots emerging - are the defenders going to be united against multiple attackers, or multiple defenders against united attackers, or singular wars, or alliance wars? Who's precisely going to be fighting whom?



As an added note, since I've already dug myself deep into this affair, I'm considering sending IC military observers to those states that want it. Accepting military observers will require diplomatic formalities, but I trust that it will be very rewarding to those that desire it.
Emmerican
08-01-2008, 22:56
i'll accept the miltary observers if it is okay with you ?
imported_ViZion
08-01-2008, 23:04
Philippiniada and Emmerican, proper grammer (even down to capitalization of the correct letters) is quite important ICly. Also, use more description and be more conversational in your messages between eachother.

Also, Phil, if I read your post correctly your guy instantly arrived at Emmerican when you guys were practically still setting up a meeting... that usually doesn't happen ;)
Dynamic Revolution
08-01-2008, 23:07
With a defense budget in excess of 1.1 trillion by your calculations I can afford 20 million...My population on the other hand probably wouldnt be able to accomodate that.....im sticking with my initial assesment. 2% of my population in service=11,170,000
Like Isreal im going to put roughly 95% in reserves. That gives me about 1,750,000 in active service

Im not going to bring up all of my forces until i see what Greal is doing. It dosent seem right to have a 1.75 million man supremely well equipped military against several poorly equipped 1 million man armies. The main factor here is Greal, Third and I combined are close to Greal's population. If he decides he wants to go all out then ill bring everybody up
Emmerican
08-01-2008, 23:14
Sorry about that imported shall hopefully do better now you have pointed it out.:p
Daehanjeiguk
09-01-2008, 00:11
Well, I'll tell you something that I like to do with my budget, to help start people off.


As a custom, I believe most people prefer to NS Trackers strictly, because they're the only reliable place to get economic statistics for any and every country. But that shouldn't and doesn't stop others from making their own budgets.

But to prevent others (and myself) from reaching the sky in terms of economic capacity, I tend to use the GDP information as the foundation of all of my work. From there, I make balanced estimates on my government's budget. Since this is a lecture on financing your army, I'll skip the parts about how I make my budget out, including setting a good tax rate.


Your armed forces should not occupy more than about 5% of your total GDP. In war time, you can expand this to about 15%, but I'd recommend not doing so unless you really have to do it (i.e. you're going to die if you don't). So about 5% is a good number to work with. Actually, the best number to work with is exactly as many soldiers relative to your population as your military budget to your GDP (i.e. 1% or your population for 1% of your GDP); but because numbers don't always add up (especially if you're considering advancing your military technological prowess and stockpiles, matching ratios isn't always a lucrative option).

But for simplicity's sake, I'll say 5% of your GDP is used for the military. Now, there is a big difference between GDP and budget, because one is a theoretical economic value, and the other is what you have, but since explain either or will involve setting taxes, I'll hold off distinguishing the two for another time. Let us suppose that your country has a population of 1 billion people, and each person theoretically earns $20,000 per annum - your GDP is about $20 trillion, so 5% of that leaves you with a sizable NS military budget of $1 trillion bucks. Reserving half of that for your research and stuff, you're left with $500 billion for your soldiers - training, maintaining, paying, and recruiting (since the army doesn't sell itself usually). Since you don't want to be paying your soldiers less than what they would earn according to the national average ($20,000), you want to pay them more, so that the army appears to be a good career option (also prevents subversion). I'd set something on the neighborhood of double the GDP per capita as a good number to accommodate most of the options. With all of those numbers done, you can afford good 12,500,000 in arms. Accounting for logistics (I'd say safely 60% of your forces, better more), you can have 7,500,000 soldiers. Put half into reserves (in this case, I'd say 4 million), and you've got 3,000,000 combat forces.

But now you can see - for 5% of your economy, you are supporting 1.25% of your population; with 95% of the rest, you are supporting 99.75% of the rest. In layman's terms, you're affording $80,000 per soldier while you're also supporting just over $19,000 per citizen. Now, for your economic standards (medium-level economy) you can support a good-sized military. If you want to be more efficient, cut your forces even more and pay more per soldier.


These are of course guidelines, and if you really feel the need to completely trash your country, be my guest.



And for those who are reputedly dyslexic, I'd recommend spellcheckers. Firefox is built with an automatic spellchecker (but doesn't fix grammar problems, like capitalization and verb sense). The best alternative is to use a word processor (like MS Word or whatever is the best equivalent for Macs) and copy and paste the finished work to the post. Other than that, I have little other advice. I personally have few qualms against bad spelling except until it becomes a really bad habit and unwieldy to attempt to understand what is being said.
Greal
09-01-2008, 01:45
Updated, Greal moved to offensive and Phil added.

I'm on offensive now? Ok, you got it

as for my air force, some of that is paratroopers...........don't worry, I don't have 1 million planes.:D
Shakal
09-01-2008, 05:53
Same here with the military numbers, mine is my entire military so that you know that I am not pulling numbers out of nowhere.


I'm also a dictatorship, and I'm sure some nations would love to change that, especially since most of the internal attempts at change end up with several hundred people being chained up and shot. For some reason members of the international community don't like nations executing civilians without trials...

Well, in that case I should be defending you as I am a Benevolent Dictatorship...
Kalmurstan
09-01-2008, 06:19
Well, in that case I should be defending you as I am a Benevolent Dictatorship...

Hmm... benevolent dictator, eh? Having mostly been either a corrupt or psychotic dictator, I'm not familiar with this idea I'm afraid, is it similar to a malevolent dictator ;)

I'm pretty certain that whilst we have nice, organised alliances right now, things will change as the RP goes along. As they say (far too often), all's fair in love and war. Things get misinterpreted, allies change, pacts are signed and broken, generally the plan goes to pot. If we come out of this war with the alliances as they are now, I'll be amazed (that is, assuming the trainers don't mind the back-stabbing, cloak and dagger politics that some nations *innocent whistle* might get up to)
Dynamic Revolution
09-01-2008, 07:11
Wait....some people are against cloke and dagger politics? oops *puts away garote wire*
Kalmurstan
09-01-2008, 07:22
I was shocked too, but apparently there are some people out there who feel you should be honest and open as far as your intentions go.

I try and make sure those kinds of people end up working in my nations labour camps ;)
Third Spanish States
09-01-2008, 07:28
A false flag operation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Flag) could be an excellent powderkeg for a war, if well roleplayed.
United gaming Leauge
09-01-2008, 07:43
I wish to sign in as a offender....if not..i can be a defender if it is required of me.
Dalnijrus
09-01-2008, 10:15
I can provide a terrain map for the war. Just let me know how big you want it to be.
The Philippiniada
09-01-2008, 12:59
guyz... do u know how to make a map for your nation?,,, hehe.. just wanted a map for strategic purposes, plus, does the nation's here border each other?
Java-Minang
09-01-2008, 15:06
The Philippiniada, I just RP-ing as the paranoid General Hafiz OK? My government is not like that. That is why I put the Defense Ministry as the sender. Or didn't I?
Java-Minang
09-01-2008, 15:07
My nation's map : http://fanaticterrorist.multiply.com/photos/photo/8/1
Notice that the black line is the border. My capital is Jogjakarta.
Java-Minang
10-01-2008, 01:41
The Philippiniada, I want to ask you about your military strengh and your terrain.
If you like you should make your own factbook...
Dynamic Revolution
10-01-2008, 08:45
Greal, you are correct...I should of been more specific what i ment was where dose everyone else want to be
Greal
10-01-2008, 08:47
Greal, you are correct...I should of been more specific what i ment was where dose everyone else want to be

There are a couple of big nations besides me that need more space then Greal needs, how do we fit them all into Europe?
Dynamic Revolution
10-01-2008, 08:49
are they rp'ers or just going to advize us
Greal
10-01-2008, 08:51
I don't want to be the only one conquering you guys :D
Dynamic Revolution
10-01-2008, 08:59
Please...an invasion of DR would lead to a quagmire....youd never win...Have you ever seen Red Dawn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Vr5u-horQ&feature=related)?


Being in france has its advantages....i really wanted great britain, but ill leave that to some newer RPer's itll give them the ability to practise some air raids without getting super involved

Do you know who the bigger nations are?
Greal
10-01-2008, 09:03
Please...an invasion of DR would lead to a quagmire....youd never win...Have you ever seen Red Dawn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Vr5u-horQ&feature=related)?


Being in france has its advantages....i really wanted great britain, but ill leave that to some newer RPer's itll give them the ability to practise some air raids without getting super involved

Do you know who the bigger nations are?

I would never win? :D :sniper: good luck, I'll crush you!

But for now, I'm out of the war until I can find out who my "neighbors" are
Dynamic Revolution
10-01-2008, 09:09
No lie, you probably could crush me....officialy...my citizens would never except your rule. They fought too many civil wars to get where they are right now.

However i hope Third Spanish gets involved soon, i cant fight this war all by myself. Phill and i stand alone and hes a small nation thats at the front of the fighting....he'll be killed unless he has a military mind
Greal
10-01-2008, 09:12
No lie, you probably could crush me....officialy...my citizens would never except your rule. They fought too many civil wars to get where they are right now.

However i hope Third Spanish gets involved soon, i cant fight this war all by myself. Phill and i stand alone and hes a small nation thats at the front of the fighting....he'll be killed unless he has a military mind

I need to find out who my neighbors are first.........
Dynamic Revolution
10-01-2008, 09:13
I noticed that...so far you guys dont have many ppl rping

on another not, how are things in Grunt? has that thread stagnated?
Greal
10-01-2008, 09:15
I noticed that...so far you guys dont have many ppl rping

on another not, how are things in Grunt? has that thread stagnated?

waiting for you in grunt :D
Dynamic Revolution
10-01-2008, 09:29
my apologies...the situation has been remedied :D
Greal
10-01-2008, 09:31
my apologies...the situation has been remedied :D

Back to the subject

it would take many men to get into France, marching across Europe.

I hope I don't have to use Nukes.....:D
Dynamic Revolution
10-01-2008, 21:13
Well right now im a little worried about htat army amassing on your border.....i might have to premptively strike that army
Shakal
11-01-2008, 02:44
Well, I just posted. What is going on with the maps here? are we using europe or our own?
Kalmurstan
11-01-2008, 02:48
As far as I'm aware, most people are using European terrain. Defenders are Western, aggressors are Eastern.
Shakal
11-01-2008, 03:43
As far as I'm aware, most people are using European terrain. Defenders are Western, aggressors are Eastern.

Well, for now I will play with what I have written, or I could be my place in the Atlantic or such?

Here is the ORBAT of what I am sending to Kalmurstan:

6. Flotte

1 Super Capital
S.I.N Samantha
2 Super Carriers (360 Aircraft: 196 F-35 Lightning II, 54 B-2 Spirt Bombers, 110 X-02 Wyvern)
S.I.N Titan
S.I.N Drow
5 Escort Carriers (350 Aircraft: 145 F-35 Lightning II, 55 X-02 Wyvern, 100 LPcR-12 Wasp)
S.I.N Widow
S.I.N Orwell
S.I.N Victory
S.I.N Challanger
S.I.N Barracuda
2 Heavy Cruisers
S.I.N Hellfire
S.I.N Ezekiel
10 Missle Cruisers
S.I.N Jailhound
S.I.N Deleware
S.I.N Luster
S.I.N Umbridge
S.I.N Melody
S.I.N Yellowknife
S.I.N Firefly
S.I.N Illustrious
S.I.N Strangler
S.I.N Ranger
15 Light Cruisers
S.I.N Justice
S.I.N Sydney
S.I.N New Zagreb
S.I.N Banja Luka
S.I.N Venecia
S.I.N Illyria
S.I.N New Amsterdam
S.I.N Brussels
S.I.N Alesia
S.I.N Stonehenge
S.I.N New Ireland
S.I.N Scottland
S.I.N Simmons
S.I.N Orville
S.I.N Yorkshire
50 Destroyers
71. Zerstörergeschwader
72. Zerstörergeschwader
73. Zerstörergeschwader
74. Zerstörergeschwader
75. Zerstörergeschwader
94. Zerstörergeschwader
95. Zerstörergeschwader
96. Zerstörergeschwader
97. Zerstörergeschwader
98.Zerstörergeschwader

2. Expiditionary Force
3. Marine-Sturm-Division (45. PsZ Brigade)
4. Marine-Sturm-Division (108. SPA Brigade)
5. Marine-Sturm-Division (46. PsZ Brigade)
6. Marine-Sturm-Division
7. Marine-Sturm-Division (109. SPA Brigade)
8. Marine-Sturm-Division
11. Marine-Sturm-Division
12. Marine-Sturm-Division (110. SPA Brigade)
13. Marine-Sturm-Division (111. SPA Brigade)
16. Marine-Sturm-Division (112. SPA Brigade)
17. Marine-Sturm-Division (113. SPA Brigade)
42. KSS-Ps.Gr.Div. 'Niedersachsen'
46. KSS-Ps.Gr.Div. 'Walhalla' (34. FlaK Brigade)
Infanterie-Div. 'Breslau' (Mech.)
Infanterie-Div. 'Hamburg' (Mech.) (35. FlaK Brigade)
1. Ps.Gr. KSS-Leibst. Johann (36. FlaK Brigade)
7. Panscrier Division (Vetran Division) (71. Engineer Brigade)
IGG-Regiment 'Freiheit' (Elite Division)

Nothing personal Kalmurstan, thanks for being so helpful.
Kalmurstan
11-01-2008, 03:59
Well, for now I will play with what I have written, or I could be my place in the Atlantic or such?

Here is the ORBAT of what I am sending to Kalmurstan:

<<Snipped one heck of a deployment>>

Nothing personal Kalmurstan, thanks for being so helpful.

Last time I help someone ;)

If I'm lucky my troops may actually open their second days rations :p

Gives me a nice opportunity to RP the underdog (like I was ever going to be anything else) and try some sneaky tactics though. So let your armada come, I'll turn it into an artificial reef! :D

As for where you're located, I don't mind if it's the middle of the Atlantic or wherever. If you've got a map and everything worked out, it's probably easier to stick with that or modify it a little to fit the scenario than shoe-horn your nations population and that into some other nations borders.
Third Spanish States
11-01-2008, 05:12
Sorry I took so much time to reply. I was unsure on what to add. But first, for this simulation Third Spanish States will actually be on that large island west of Portugal like it actually is. Otherwise the size of its Navy wouldn't make much sense. Second, I would like to request a separate 1 vs 1 thread for this training as I doubt I could participate in it on its current state by arriving late and because it makes it much easier and better organized than a 6 vs 6 or alike in a single thread. And last, I'm inviting Greal for this 1 vs. 1 simulation, though the invaders will have to bring their Aircraft Carriers from Russia to the Atlantic as a needed part of the whole operation. No "I own Portugal", I ask.

My suggestion is to separate the training into different simulated theaters of war as well, to make it better organized as the current RPing, because 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 already starts to get somewhat complicated, but is still playable. Anyway separating it will bring better results.
Shakal
11-01-2008, 05:43
As for where you're located, I don't mind if it's the middle of the Atlantic or wherever. If you've got a map and everything worked out, it's probably easier to stick with that or modify it a little to fit the scenario than shoe-horn your nations population and that into some other nations borders.

Well, I agree with the population, cramming almost 3 billion into a European nation would be nigh immpossible... expecially maintaining my nations living standards...

BTW the Expiditionary force is only around 280-380k men, more will have to follow of course, but I have to be mildly realistic.

So let your armada come, I'll turn it into an artificial reef

...

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Gurguvungunit
11-01-2008, 06:09
Sorry I took so much time to reply. I was unsure on what to add. But first, for this simulation Third Spanish States will actually be on that large island west of Portugal like it actually is. Otherwise the size of its Navy wouldn't make much sense. Second, I would like to request a separate 1 vs 1 thread for this training as I doubt I could participate in it on its current state by arriving late and because it makes it much easier and better organized than a 6 vs 6 or alike in a single thread. And last, I'm inviting Greal for this 1 vs. 1 simulation, though the invaders will have to bring their Aircraft Carriers from Russia to the Atlantic as a needed part of the whole operation. No "I own Portugal", I ask.

My suggestion is to separate the training into different simulated theaters of war as well, to make it better organized as the current RPing, because 2 vs 2 and 3 vs 3 already starts to get somewhat complicated, but is still playable. Anyway separating it will bring better results.
Alternatively, you could fight Gurguvungunit. I haven't actually done anything with her for a while (yes, I refer to my nation in the third-person feminine, sue me), and I like to think I've got a decent grasp of naval warfare. Obviously I wouldn't use my full population/military, that'd be evil. Interested? I'd be able to give you direct tips from the opposition, which actually makes it easier.
Third Spanish States
11-01-2008, 07:17
Alternatively, you could fight Gurguvungunit. I haven't actually done anything with her for a while (yes, I refer to my nation in the third-person feminine, sue me), and I like to think I've got a decent grasp of naval warfare. Obviously I wouldn't use my full population/military, that'd be evil. Interested? I'd be able to give you direct tips from the opposition, which actually makes it easier.

Interested, I'll make a thread on it later... at roughly somewhere between 13:00 to 17:00 PM according to Jolt Forums standard clock
Greal
11-01-2008, 07:52
Well right now im a little worried about htat army amassing on your border.....i might have to premptively strike that army

You could, I do have another 50 million in my reserves, though in this rp I will be "gentle".

Great, I got to wait for Emm's response before I go striking down Phil and anyone else in my way.
Dynamic Revolution
11-01-2008, 07:53
then i guess the time to strike is now...
Greal
11-01-2008, 07:58
then i guess the time to strike is now...

me? if you do............:cool:(DR) :sniper:(Greal)
Java-Minang
11-01-2008, 08:08
So, anything interesting happened? Sure I will mobilize my army soon, after Greal strike (So, me is the reinforcement..):D
Greal
11-01-2008, 08:14
So, anything interesting happened? Sure I will mobilize my army soon, after Greal strike (So, me is the reinforcement..):D

Where in Europe is your nation located? I need some information before I go on with my assault........
Dynamic Revolution
11-01-2008, 08:16
you forgot something

:cool:(dr) :sniper:(greal) :mp5:(DR)

thats why the first guy looks so smug
Greal
11-01-2008, 08:20
you forgot something

:cool:(dr) :sniper:(greal) :mp5:(DR)

thats why the first guy looks so smug

Added:D

:( (DR) :sniper: (Greal) :mp5: (DR) :sniper: (Greal's allies)

anyway, back to the subject

I will be around tomorrow early morning (Pacific time)

Just in time for the battle :D
Java-Minang
11-01-2008, 08:22
Turks...
Greal
11-01-2008, 08:23
Turks...

Perfect, to my south! :D

I'll put up a post later invading Turkey :D
Java-Minang
11-01-2008, 08:33
Woi!! I'm in the offensive too!!!
Java-Minang
11-01-2008, 08:36
I'm in your side!!
Or that is?
You're offender right?
And I am too!!
Greal
11-01-2008, 08:39
I'm in your side!!
Or that is?
You're offender right?
And I am too!!

Ok, we should delete our posts. :headbang:

You could strike the defenders rear for me.
Java-Minang
11-01-2008, 08:55
OK, but you attack their front first, then I will charge and lay waste to them at near the coast line (and of course, delete their logistic)
Still, are you just trying to attack me?
Greal
11-01-2008, 08:56
OK, but you attack their front first, then I will charge and lay waste to them at near the coast line (and of course, delete their logistic)
Still, are you just trying to attack me?

no, I edited the post, the Black Sea fleet is heading to Southern France........
Brutland and Norden
11-01-2008, 08:58
Please...an invasion of DR would lead to a quagmire....youd never win...Have you ever seen Red Dawn (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Vr5u-horQ&feature=related)?

Being in france has its advantages....i really wanted great britain, but ill leave that to some newer RPer's itll give them the ability to practise some air raids without getting super involved

Do you know who the bigger nations are?
Me? Sorry, going through one hell of a week. I'd rather use my own map, which if it would be in the world, would be located right in the South Pacific, prolly where NZ and the Solomons are. Otherwise if we are just going to use RL geography I'd like to take USA, Canada, and Mexico for my 2.3 billion+ population.
Greal
11-01-2008, 09:02
Me? Sorry, going through one hell of a week. I'd rather use my own map, which if it would be in the world, would be located right in the South Pacific, prolly where NZ and the Solomons are. Otherwise if we are just going to use RL geography I'd like to take USA, Canada, and Mexico for my 2.3 billion+ population.

You could take Africe down south, since its close to Europe........
Brutland and Norden
11-01-2008, 09:05
You could take Africe down south, since its close to Europe........
You don't want me anywhere near Europe. :p Anyway, at least it won't be that one-sided if I enter, since there would be the logistical problem of transport across the North Atlantic. Alternatively, you can invade me through Alaska. :D
Greal
11-01-2008, 09:07
You don't want me anywhere near Europe. :p Anyway, at least it won't be that one-sided if I enter, since there would be the logistical problem of transport across the North Atlantic. Alternatively, you can invade me through Alaska. :D

Thats a good idea:D

My attention has to be ion Europe, but since you are bigger then me, I can't exactly invade Alaska.......
Java-Minang
11-01-2008, 09:10
Let's begin the war!! Brut & Nord, let's fight! (Oh no.. I'm searching death... Anyway if you're in America, I'm saved!)
Java-Minang
11-01-2008, 09:34
So, Greal, will you strike from land first, from water first, or from air? Or even defending first and then counter attack? (I suggest you do the 1st first. They entrenched, have small reserve, a loosely coordinated artillerry attack could bring and end to them, quick, and very painful :p)
The Philippiniada
12-01-2008, 02:56
DEFENDERS
Dynamic Revolution
Shesharlie
Brutland and Norden
Third Spanish States
Kalmurstan
The Philippiniada

where are this people?!?!?! im holding out on a war against Java Minang, Greal and Emmerican!!! :sniper::mp5::gundge::headbang::headbang:
The Philippiniada
12-01-2008, 02:58
and Brutland, youre a filipino right?
Brutland and Norden
12-01-2008, 07:34
This is what I'll be RPing with, I'm not using Brutland and Norden. Here's a mini-factbook. Essentially, it is US + Canada + Mexico, multiplied by a factor of 5. (since the pop of US + Can + Mex is ~ 1/5 that of B&N.)

United North American States
Country Name: United North American States - Estados Unidos Norteamericanos - États Unis Nord-Américains
Capital: New York City, Hudson Capital Territory
Form of Government: Federal Republic
Head of State and Government: President Timothy B. Hendrickson
Official Languages: English, French, Spanish
Monetary Unit: North American Dollar
Map: available here (http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8971/usanmapov6.png).

Population: 2,344,431,825
GDP: $91,859,910,000,000
GDP per capita: $39,690.05
States:
State (Abbr.) - Capital (RL equivalent)
Altiplano (AL) - Aguascalientes (Durango, Zacatecas, San Luis Potosi, Aguascalientes)
Arctic (AR) - Yellowknife (Northwest Territories, Nunavut)
Atlantico (AT) - Veracruz (southern Tamaulipas, Veracruz)
Carolina (CA) - Charlotte (North Carolina, South Carolina, southern Virginia)
Cascadia (CS) - Seattle (British Columbia, Oregon, Washington)
Chesapeake (CH) - Washington (Maryland, DC, northern Virginia)
Desert (DE) - Tucson (Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Utah, Sonora, Chihuahua)
Erie (ER) - Buffalo (upstate New York)
Florida (FL) - Tallahassee (Florida)
Great Lakes (GL) - Chicago (Minnesota, Wisconsin, northern Illinois, northern Indiana, Michigan)
Greater Alaska (GA) - Anchorage (Alaska, Yukon Territory)
Greater Missouri (GM) - St. Louis (Missouri, eastern Kentucky, southern Illinois)
Greater Ohio (GO) - Cincinnati (Ohio, southern Indiana, west and central Kentucky, West Virginia)
Hawaii (HI) - Honolulu (Hawaii)
Hudson Capital Territory (HCT) - New York City (New York City, suburbs, Long Island, northern New Jersey)
Lower California (LC) - Mexicali (Baja California Norte and Sur)
Maritime (MA) - Halifax (Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island)
Mexico (MX) - Mexico City (Mexico, Distrito Federal, Morelos, Puebla, Guanajuato, Queretaro, Hidalgo)
New England (NE) - Boston (Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island, Vermont)
Newfoundland and Labrador (NL) - St. John's
North Prairie (NP) - Regina (Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba)
Ontario (ON) - Toronto
Pacifico (PO) - Guadalajara (Sinaloa, Nayarit, Jalisco, Colima, Michoacan, Guerrero)
Pennsylvania (PA) - Harrisburg (Pennsylvania, southern New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland panhandle)
Puerto Rico (PR) - San Juan (Puerto Rico)
Quebec (QU) - Montreal
Rocky Mountain (RC) - Denver (Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming)
the South (SO) - Atlanta (Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi)
South Prairie (SP) - Omaha (North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas)
Tehuantepec (TE) - Oaxaca (Tabasco, Oaxaca, Chiapas)
Texas (TX) - Austin (Oklahoma, Texas, Coahuila, Nuevo Leon, northern Tamaulipas)
Upper California (UC) - Sacramento (California)
Yucatan (YU) - Merida (Yucatan, Quintana Roo, Campeche)

MILITARY
Commander-in-Chief: President Timothy Hendrickson
Head of the General Chief of Staff: Gen. Etienne Charbonneau
Total Strength: 17,687,767 (0.76% of population) [excluding National Guard units]

United North American Army
Chief: General Cedric Hempstead
Number in Active Service: 4,591,026
Number of Reserve Forces: 5,214,741
Number of Divisions: 177
Headquarters: Fort Hood, TX

Army Districts [Designated as Armies]
Central (NP, SP, ER, GL, GO, GM, ON) - Camp Heartland, Omaha, SP
Number of Divisions: 8 Infantry; 5 Artillery; 5 Armored; 2 Engineer; 4 Marine; 1 Airborne; 0 Ski; 1 Mountain
East (NL, QU, NE, HCT, PA, CA, CH, MA) - Fort Drum, ER
Number of Divisions: 7 Infantry; 5 Artillery; 5 Armored; 3 Engineer; 5 Marine; 4 Airborne; 1 Ski; 4 Mountain
Gulf (FL, SO, TX, AT, PR) - Fort Hood, TX
Number of Divisions: 7 Infantry; 5 Artillery; 5 Armored; 2 Engineer; 8 Marine; 5 Airborne; 0 Ski; 2 Mountain
North (GA, AR) - Fortress of the Arctic, Whitehorse, Arctic State
Number Of Divisions: 2 Infantry; 2 Artillery; 3 Armored; 1 Engineer; 2 Marine; 3 Airborne; 4 Ski; 3 Mountain
South (AL, PO, MX, YU, TE) - Fort Mexico, Mexico City, MX
Number of Divisions: 8 Infantry; 5 Artillery; 5 Armored; 2 Engineer; 5 Marine; 3 Airborne; 0 Ski; 3 Mountain
West (CS, UC, LC, RM, DE, HI) - Union Camp, Reno, Desert State
Number of Divisions: 7 Infantry; 4 Artillery; 5 Armored; 2 Engineer; 5 Marine; 4 Airborne; 1 Ski; 6 Mountain

United North American Navy
Chief: Adm. Jerome Lockheart
Number in Active Service: 2,232,000
Number of Reserve Forces: 832,000
Number of Vessels: 3,372
Headquarters: Galveston Naval Base, Galveston, TX
Ship Prefix: UNANS

Navy Fleets
Arctic - Arctic Naval Base, Tuktoyaktuk, AR
Ships: 2 battleships; 12 frigates; 17 cruiser; 19 destroyers; 21 corvettes; 45 patrol boats; 39 submarines; 33 icebreakers
Atlantic - Hampton Roads Naval Base, CA
Ships: 10 battleships; 82 frigates; 94 cruisers; 105 destroyers; 129 corvettes; 511 patrol boats; 102 submarines
Gulf - Galveston Naval Base, Galveston, TX
Ships: 5 battleships; 47 frigates; 58 cruisers; 87 destroyers; 79 corvettes; 289 patrol boats; 65 submarines
Pacific - Coronado Naval Base, San Diego, UC
Ships: 16 battleships; 119 frigates; 157 cruisers; 189 destroyers; 202 corvettes; 702 patrol boats; 155 submarines

Navy Ships (NB: Note, their names are that used by the UNAN, but the links direct your to RL battleships. Just changed their name.)
Battleships (33)
Carolina class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_class_battleship) (33)
Frigates (260)
Canada class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halifax_class_frigate) (105)
New York class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry_class) (132)
Quetzalcoatl class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronstein_class_frigate) (23)
Cruisers (326)
Cumberland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ticonderoga_class_cruiser) class (326)
Destroyers (381)
Saint James class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arleigh_Burke_class_destroyer) (204)
Sioux class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_class_destroyer) (177)
Corvettes (431)
Durango class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descubierta_class_frigate) (118)
Heller class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braunschweig_class_corvette) (188)
Indefatigable class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Littoral_Combat_Ship) (135)
Patrol Boats (1547)
Baffin class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingston_class_patrol_vessel) (221)
Bryce class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orca_class_training_vessel) (402)
Queensborough class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific-class_patrol_boat) (390)
Sierra class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Durango_class) (256)
Tezcatlipoca class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oaxaca_class) (278)
Submarines (361)
Columbiana class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_class_submarine) (119)
Cortez class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_class_submarine) (67)
Victoria class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_class_submarine)(88)
Washington (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawolf_class_submarine) (87)
Icebreakers (33)
Endurance class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USCG_Polar_Class_Icebreaker) (33)

United North American Air Force
Chief: Bartram Templeton
Number in Active Service: 2,005,000
Number of Reserve Forces: 2,813,000
Headquarters: Offutt Air Force Base, Omaha, SP

Air Force Commands
Central (NP, SP, ER, GL, GO, GM, ON) - Union AFB, Eau Claire, GL
East (NL, QU, NE, HCT, PA, CA, CH, MA) - Hanscom AFB, Bedford, NE
Gulf (FL, SO, TX, AT, PR) - Lackland AFB, San Antonio, TX
North (GA, AR) - Elmendorf AFB, Anchorage, GA
South (AL, PO, MX, YU, TE) - Santa Lucia AFB, MX
West (CS, UC, LC, RM, DE, HI) - McChord AFB, Pierce Co, CS

Air Force Vessels
Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles (224)
Combat Aircraft (5,545)
Airborne Early Warning & Control Aircraft (305)
Trainers (3,021)
Transport aircraft (1,784)
Attack helicopters (3,647)
Transport helicopters (3,893)
Aircraft Carriers (99)
Muskoka class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz_class_aircraft_carrier) (55)
Superior class (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_R._Ford_class_aircraft_carrier) (44)
[since this will just be drawn out again, just assume that the UNAAF uses aircraft of the RL Canadian Forces Air Command, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_Air_Command) United States Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force), and Mexican Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Air_Force))
Greal
12-01-2008, 23:47
DEFENDERS
Dynamic Revolution
Shesharlie
Brutland and Norden
Third Spanish States
Kalmurstan
The Philippiniada

where are this people?!?!?! im holding out on a war against Java Minang, Greal and Emmerican!!! :sniper::mp5::gundge::headbang::headbang:

We have the same problem, I see only 3 "offenders" around.
Gurguvungunit
13-01-2008, 00:13
Third Spanish States, please TG me that thread's link.
Java-Minang
13-01-2008, 09:10
and 1 is very weak...
Java-Minang
15-01-2008, 09:52
So, where do I strike? I know Greal has attack head-on, so should I charge at their Coast?
Greal
16-01-2008, 02:14
So, where do I strike? I know Greal has attack head-on, so should I charge at their Coast?

Coast will be fine, I need some pressure taken off me.
Greal
24-01-2008, 09:02
we need more offenders and defenders.............
Dynamic Revolution
24-01-2008, 21:28
Gimme like 1 week, I should pop back in......gotta install my new hard drive
Greal
25-01-2008, 04:45
Ok, you got it....... We also need ViZion here......
imported_ViZion
25-01-2008, 07:12
Ok, you got it....... We also need ViZion here......
Sorry, been really busy, new job. Anyway, whats up? Hows the training going?
The Philippiniada
25-01-2008, 07:26
Vizion, Great to see you, :D, the Training has been great!. Unfortunately, only me. Kalmurstan. and Brutland are the active members on the Defensive Side, plus im holding out an invasion of Greal/Java/Emmerican, totally outnumbered, LOL,
Greal
25-01-2008, 10:33
Hey ViZion, good to see you, when Brutland comes in he will have more then me.........
Questers
25-01-2008, 15:57
[OOC: Totally forgot about this. If the defensive side needs some temporary backup, I can provide it?]
The Philippiniada
25-01-2008, 16:29
Questers, I think you can do that. We are totally outnumbered,
Questers
25-01-2008, 17:34
[OOC: Ok, can someone give me a rough outline of the thread and whats going on?]
Jenrak
25-01-2008, 21:21
[OOC: Ok, can someone give me a rough outline of the thread and whats going on?]

I'd like to know too.
Greal
26-01-2008, 01:04
Well, we are using Europe as the area for the training rp. I'm in Russia, Phil is in Western Germany, Emmerican is in Eastern Germany. So far, I managed to break through Phil's Defensive line and I'm still laying siege to some cities in the area. Emmerican has been backing me up, I managed to bomb 3 Brutland and Norden ships (To provoke a war :D) and they declared war on me. But no combat with Brutland and Norden has started yet. Actually I'm outnumbered............:D
Brutland and Norden
26-01-2008, 06:43
Well, we are using Europe as the area for the training rp. I'm in Russia, Phil is in Western Germany, Emmerican is in Eastern Germany. So far, I managed to break through Phil's Defensive line and I'm still laying siege to some cities in the area. Emmerican has been backing me up, I managed to bomb 3 Brutland and Norden ships (To provoke a war :D) and they declared war on me. But no combat with Brutland and Norden has started yet. Actually I'm outnumbered............:D
The offender Shakal is actually bigger than all of us, but I do not know the numbers he's RPing. All I know is that he wants to turn Kalmurstan into a protectorate.
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 11:55
Brut. Plano na tayo!.
Kalmurstan
26-01-2008, 12:07
The offender Shakal is actually bigger than all of us, but I do not know the numbers he's RPing. All I know is that he wants to turn Kalmurstan into a protectorate.

He's not doing too badly with that plan either, at the moment I'm in the "having my butt handed to me" phase of my defence :D. From what I remember, and I could double check this but I'm lazy, he's sent half a million men aboard a naval detachment, so that seems like roleplaying at his full size.
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 13:04
Good luck with that Kalmurstan. LOL. but with Quester's Help. You may turn the tide of your war. and beating Shakal to the sea. :D
Kalmurstan
26-01-2008, 13:26
Good luck with that Kalmurstan. LOL. but with Quester's Help. You may turn the tide of your war. and beating Shakal to the sea. :D

Their assistance would definitely help, yeah. But I have no intentions of beating Shakal back into the ocean, I'm gonna beat him into the ground :p

Hopefully
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 13:45
Hopefully


LOL. i almost believed, if it wasn't for that "Hopefully" comment, haha :D
Brutland and Norden
26-01-2008, 13:58
Brut. Plano na tayo!.
may nakakaintindi ba ng tagalog sa mga kalaro natin?
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 14:02
wala pare. sikreto ang lahat ng pinaguusapan natin
Brutland and Norden
26-01-2008, 14:13
haha sana. hindi ko sigurado kung hindi marunong magbasa ng tagalog si Greal...

ininvade ko na si Greal, para mabawasan ang pressure sa iyo.

ipapadala ko ang atlantic fleet papunta diyan. pero dahil ang declaration of war ng UNAS congress ay kay greal lang, hindi pwedeng makipaglaban ang UNAS kay java-minang o emmerican. Pwedeng ipadala ko ang pwersa ko sa sector kung saan nandoon si greal. Kaso mga ilang araw bago makarating ang mga tao ko diyan.

Pwede din siguro na isa-isahin natin sila. mukhang masayang unahin si java-minang... baka pwede pa natin siyang maging kakampi kapag natalo natin siya... KAPAG...
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 14:27
Kakayanin ko si Emmerican at si java Minang. mas malaki ako sa kanilang dalawa at baguhan pa lang si Emmerican. si java medyo marunong din. pero kakayanin din siguro. pinaka-nagpapasakit ng ulo ko ay si Greal. mag-drop ka rin ng tao sa Front ko. para suportahan ako. medjo madugo ang labanan sa Hannover, Kassel at Lunenberg. attrition ang gagamitin ko. flank attack ang gagawin ko. Logistics Disruption. LOL. sana gumana. siguro ang hihingin ko lng sayo pagkain. gamot. TANGKE. at EROPLANO. (lang eh no.. :D) ung Atlantic Fleet mo ba pwede dumaong sa Kanlurang Alemanya? kung pwede lang. Blockade mo ung Emmerican Naval Invasion Force. para walang logistics. short lived invasion. LOL
Brutland and Norden
26-01-2008, 14:42
sige, papadala ako. pero mas mainam siguro na mayroong komunikasyon sa mga gobyerno natin. kung sino ang pinuno ng ekspedisyon malamang siya ang makikipag-coordinate. Gagawa ako ng post mamaya, wala ako sa computer ko. pero aalis na and atlantic fleet.

may nga tanong lang ako:
1. ilan ang mga tao ni greal. Nasaan? nasa hilaga, o sa timog?
2. haharangan ko rin ang emmerican. saan?
3. pwede bang maglanding sa lugar mo? mas mainam siguro kugn hinid sa iisang lugar and landing. sa heligoland bight o sa friesland pwede ako mag-landing ng mga troops; at dahil wala na si DR, malaamng pwede na rin sa lupain niya. mas mabilis and transportasyon kapag sa lupa kaysa sa dagat, pwede pang mabomba ng mga subs.
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 14:57
si Greal ay may half a million na dineploy, siguro akala niya gagana ang blitz
si Emmerican sa Emden Coast, nakapaglanding na siya, harangin mo nlng ung logistics chain niya
Sige, sa France ka nalang magland.

then. repel the invasion! haha
Brutland and Norden
26-01-2008, 15:05
si Greal ay may half a million na dineploy, siguro akala niya gagana ang blitz
si Emmerican sa Emden Coast, nakapaglanding na siya, harangin mo nlng ung logistics chain niya
Sige, sa France ka nalang magland.

then. repel the invasion! haha
kalahating milyon?! syet, haha. parang one-fourth yata yun ng buong hukbo ko. kailangan ng taktika....
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 15:10
UU. desperate na taktika ang kailangan ntin! hit and run?, harrasment, maybe psycho warfare
Brutland and Norden
26-01-2008, 15:24
hindi naman siguro... sana...

pwede pa rin naman ang guerrilla warfare sa likod ng front line sa mga lugar na na-okupa. maaaring makapagpabagal o makagulo ito sa paggalaw ng kalaban...
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 15:33
Sana nga. Di ko nasagot tanong mo. sa North sila umatake. Sinasakop nila ang Lunenberg. Hannover. at Kassel. 3 agad ang pinuntirya. kailangan ng suporta duon. bigay ka ng taktika na pwede kong gamitin.
Brutland and Norden
26-01-2008, 15:52
wag mo silang hayaang mag-cross ng Weser... ano man ang mangyari, huwag mo silang hayaan!!!
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 16:09
Wesser-Fukuda river?. Sige. Naka-lista na. mag-rp ako na sinimulan ng Engineers Corps ko na i-barikada ang Wesser. plus anti-invasion pariphenalia, mga patibong. siguro panahon na para sa suicide attacks pag umabot sila sa Wesser?. tingin mo? Iraqi ang istilo ba.. LOL. ETA para makarating ka sa Kanlurang Alemanya?.
Brutland and Norden
26-01-2008, 16:16
Wesser-Fukuda river?. Sige. Naka-lista na. mag-rp ako na sinimulan ng Engineers Corps ko na i-barikada ang Wesser. plus anti-invasion pariphenalia, mga patibong. siguro panahon na para sa suicide attacks pag umabot sila sa Wesser?. tingin mo? Iraqi ang istilo ba.. LOL. ETA para makarating ka sa Kanlurang Alemanya?.
kailangan ko pang mag-compute. ibang computer gamit ko, masasabi ko mamaya siguro... malamang mga ilang araw... hindi na naman kailangang mag-mobilize, ready na for deployment ang mga pwersa ko.
The Philippiniada
26-01-2008, 16:24
ahh ok sige. ETA pra mag-fall back ang forces ko siguro mga .... 12 more oras pa(NS TIME). hangang hindi umaabot ang patay ko ng 3000. marami ng patay ang Greal, 3000 mahigit na, siguro pag mauna siyang mag-retreat, papalakasin ko ang lungsod na sinasakop niya. then ready para sa isa pang lusob ng Greal. ang Fleet niya rin pala. kahit may storm. bumibira pa rin. although mababa ang posibilidad na tumama sa targets. meron din akong bubuoin na SpecOps Group. Assasination and Sabotage ang main duties.
Greal
27-01-2008, 00:11
The offender Shakal is actually bigger than all of us, but I do not know the numbers he's RPing. All I know is that he wants to turn Kalmurstan into a protectorate.

I need Shakal to help me..........
Java-Minang
31-01-2008, 13:55
In the name of God...

Greal! Help me by encircle his southern defences !
Greal
31-01-2008, 13:56
In the name of God...

Greal! Help me by encircle his southern defences !

I also need help dealing with Brutland and Norden...........We need another offender.
Brutland and Norden
01-02-2008, 04:28
I also need help dealing with Brutland and Norden...........We need another offender.
Nope, we're both fighting a two-front war. :D And TBH, I am having difficulty enough with your big area and difficult terrain...
The Philippiniada
01-02-2008, 17:38
Java. Please don't stall the timeline. you are waiting Greal to help you, while the NS time in the Invasion is ticking. please respond :)
Dynamic Revolution
01-02-2008, 22:36
allright guys, got my new hard drive and im up and running. If y'all will allow me I'd like back in on this one. It's up to yall where you want me, or if im even allowed back in
Greal
01-02-2008, 23:56
Probably you need to aid Phil.....
Brutland and Norden
02-02-2008, 03:29
Probably you need to aid Phil.....
Yup, that's why we'd be facing each other on two fronts. But it'd take 3-4 days for much of the force to arrive, and so I'm still waiting for 3-4 RP days to pass...
(will not be posting later or tomorrow, I have an exam.)
Java-Minang
02-02-2008, 06:37
Ok Ok...
Greal
02-02-2008, 23:46
I can't really attack all of them on my own.
Emmerican
02-02-2008, 23:54
well ill quickly roll into phil Greal and then i'll launch an assault on Brutland, if its okay with him while hes fighting on 2 fronts.
Stoklomolvi
14-02-2008, 03:22
What's the current situation? If possible, I'm the Ukraine, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, and Byelorussia. Yes?
Greal
14-02-2008, 03:59
What's the current situation? If possible, I'm the Ukraine, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, and Byelorussia. Yes?

Well, The current situation is that I am invading Phil, I am currently sieging his cities, Shakal is hitting someone else, I could really use your help on the Phil front.

You may use that land
Shakal
14-02-2008, 05:37
Dont worry Greal, Ill be able to help you pretty quick. Just a pest control problem in Spain and the march to the Rhine. From there, who knows???*









*Because I Dont!
Shansekia
15-02-2008, 00:38
Shakal, mind if you tell me how those tomohawks are "modified"? Extra speed, payload, etc.?
Greal
15-02-2008, 02:42
I need some more missiles to attack, somehow Phil keeps surviving the missiles :D
Shakal
15-02-2008, 04:03
Shakal, mind if you tell me how those tomohawks are "modified"? Extra speed, payload, etc.?

Range. Sorry, should have said. On that note quick, how "technical" are you defenders willign to get? Since the Nakil (From what I understand At Least) are much more powerful than most modern tanks and would prove a pain i nthe butt to kill with many of todays anti-tank weapons.

I just ask this because I want to know your guys attitude on it so I can RP casualties from a fairer prospective. ;)
Shansekia
15-02-2008, 07:32
Range. Sorry, should have said. On that note quick, how "technical" are you defenders willign to get? Since the Nakil (From what I understand At Least) are much more powerful than most modern tanks and would prove a pain i nthe butt to kill with many of todays anti-tank weapons.

I just ask this because I want to know your guys attitude on it so I can RP casualties from a fairer prospective. ;)

If by technical, you mean stat blocks and such, yes, definitely :D. I'd really like more info on the F-22N and the X-02 as well.

BTW shakal, did you srsly need to send thousands of tanks? I was owned to begin with. :(
Java-Minang
15-02-2008, 09:19
I'll charge at Phil... *

*2 weeks more! After doing exams
The Philippiniada
15-02-2008, 09:26
Java. Reply to my posts
Greal
15-02-2008, 09:31
seems like the training rp is actually doing better then I expected, lots of activity.
Java-Minang
15-02-2008, 11:45
er.. Post links?
I have no time nor bandwith to read all that pages!
Kalmurstan
15-02-2008, 15:02
If by technical, you mean stat blocks and such, yes, definitely :D. I'd really like more info on the F-22N and the X-02 as well.

BTW shakal, did you srsly need to send thousands of tanks? I was owned to begin with. :(

The X-02 is from Ace Combat 4 or 5... in fact, it may be both! That is, unless the X-02 in question is a completely home-grow design, then that'll teach me to try and explain a nations custom hardware. As for specs, they elude me right now

The F-22N is easier to explain, again, unless it is a completely home-grown piece of kit. If it's the standard F-22N, that was a proposed carrier-based variant of the F-22, scraped by the USN because of the inherent difficulties in making it work with the current USN carrier fleet. So it would just be an F-22, but carrier based.

Shakal, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and fill in the blanks on any X-02 specs I missed if I'm right.
Shakal
15-02-2008, 18:54
If by technical, you mean stat blocks and such, yes, definitely :D. I'd really like more info on the F-22N and the X-02 as well.

BTW shakal, did you srsly need to send thousands of tanks? I was owned to begin with. :(

Yes, yes I did need to send thousands of tanks. I plan to drive them all the way to Berlin, before Greal gets there! unless he already has... then my goal is the Rhine.

The X-02 is from Ace Combat 4 or 5... in fact, it may be both! That is, unless the X-02 in question is a completely home-grow design, then that'll teach me to try and explain a nations custom hardware. As for specs, they elude me right now

The F-22N is easier to explain, again, unless it is a completely home-grown piece of kit. If it's the standard F-22N, that was a proposed carrier-based variant of the F-22, scraped by the USN because of the inherent difficulties in making it work with the current USN carrier fleet. So it would just be an F-22, but carrier based.

Shakal, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, and fill in the blanks on any X-02 specs I missed if I'm right.

At Kal... How did you know that so well...

The X-02 is found of wiki be searching X-02, cant do it myself at the moment, no time with school and all.
Kalmurstan
15-02-2008, 20:01
At Kal... How did you know that so well...

I'm full of useless bits of military knowledge. I know a little bit about a lot of things. The X-02 Wyvern, that was just me gaming waaay too much over the past few years ;).

The X-02 is found of wiki be searching X-02, cant do it myself at the moment, no time with school and all.

Ahhh, the old gem Wikipedia. I didn't think of checking there, which is odd considering it's my home-page at the moment.
Dynamic Revolution
15-02-2008, 20:04
Shansekia, may I suggest "burnt earth" style tactics? I mean your up against a guy who has a multi-billion person pop. and they all live in an area the size of Argentina? I doubt Shakal has the "beans, and bullets" to maintain this fight. Pull back your men and people into my country. We'll begin setting up fortifications there. In the mean time make everything in your country completely useless to him, we can re-construct later
Greal
15-02-2008, 23:56
I have a country the size of Russia..................:D in this rp anyway.....
Shansekia
16-02-2008, 01:26
Shansekia, may I suggest "burnt earth" style tactics? I mean your up against a guy who has a multi-billion person pop. and they all live in an area the size of Argentina? I doubt Shakal has the "beans, and bullets" to maintain this fight. Pull back your men and people into my country. We'll begin setting up fortifications there. In the mean time make everything in your country completely useless to him, we can re-construct later

I didn't know we were training-RPing the recontruction too! Anyway, that's what I'm planning. There's a reason one of my armies, the 2nd, hasn't been mentioned yet. What do you think they're doing? Hmmm...;) As for falling all the way back to you, that'll be a good idea. I'll watch their tanks desprately gripe with the elevations of Cordillera Cantabrica and Sistema Central first though, thank you very much.

BTW, what country were you again? And everyone else, is anyone France? Thanks. Need to know how to evacuate...
Dynamic Revolution
16-02-2008, 20:53
Ahhhh my good friend Shansekia....
Do you think I would ask you to retreat all the way to Poland? No my friend, I would not. I am France. I apologize for not saying that earlier.
Greal
16-02-2008, 23:56
Well, we really need a map of us

Stok, where are you?
Stoklomolvi
17-02-2008, 00:10
I am behind you, ready to poke you with a pointy stick.

I'm confused as to where everyone's men are...we need a map.
Greal
17-02-2008, 00:17
I am behind you, ready to poke you with a pointy stick.

I'm confused as to where everyone's men are...we need a map.

As far as I know, phil is in WEstern Germany, DR is in France, Shan is in Spain. I'm in Russia, Oilyp Prata in in Norway, Emmerican is in Eastern Germany. And you are in the rest of the eastern nations.
Kalmurstan
17-02-2008, 00:20
I'll see what I can do... I've got time on my hands, a copy of Fireworks already open and nothing better to do at the moment. I'll see what I can whip up
Kalmurstan
17-02-2008, 07:23
After a bit of work, some coffee and too much Family Guy, here's my interpretation of our "Home Turf"

Big map: 1024x853, 490kb (http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh139/Exiled-Wolf/NST_RP_Map.png)


I'm also working on a "Who is where right now?" version, but that involves reading through the entire RP thread and updating it as I go along, so it could take a while.

Phil, I know it might be a tad out of date now if the front's moved, but roughly where does your defensive line run from/to/through? It'll help me figure out where everyone's pushed through to, and if they've pushed further in or been pushed back, I'll pick up on that as I read through the RP pages. Ta.

Also, depending on how Brut's invasion of Greal's Eastern coast goes, I may throw a map together for that. Same goes for any other conflicts that may open up as we go along. But for now, that's your lot, and since it's 6am here and I've not seen my bed since yesterday morning, I think it's about time I hit the hay.
The Philippiniada
17-02-2008, 12:23
Well. I may think of signing a peace treaty with Greal, the fight has been terrible,:headbang: but that doesnt mean i'll end the war with Emmerican(which by the way hasn't posted for sometime now...) tactics tactics, i'll end the war with Greal, then drive to East Germany!;)











if i can persuade Greal to end it's siege........
Dynamic Revolution
17-02-2008, 23:07
Phil dont you leave me high and dry....All my allies are folding underneath me...Well, lets hope I can send in some Jihadists and hurt yalls occupation to the point that you wont have the ability to fight me openly.... by the way Greal, I just launched about 2000 planes in your direction
Greal
18-02-2008, 06:41
DR: 2000 planes? where did they come from?

Phil: If you want a peace treaty, then you better put up a post in the RP thread.
The Philippiniada
18-02-2008, 08:47
DR: Read my TG



Greal: Well. im thinking about it. i may put it up. but i won't let any piece of my land to be given to you. LOL. (i hope),
Greal
18-02-2008, 09:00
DR: Read my TG



Greal: Well. im thinking about it. i may put it up. but i won't let any piece of my land to be given to you. LOL. (i hope),

I am waiting for a post from you in the RP thread.
Dynamic Revolution
18-02-2008, 21:15
They have been heading towards your front with Phils for like 3 weeks now...
The Philippiniada
18-02-2008, 21:22
what's heading with me?
Greal
19-02-2008, 04:08
They have been heading towards your front with Phils for like 3 weeks now...

I didn't see a post mentioning 2000 planes......
Dynamic Revolution
19-02-2008, 19:33
*Grumble grumble*....Ill dig em up and give them a lil bump
Greal
20-02-2008, 03:05
Okay, thanks for the posts.