NationStates Jolt Archive

This is an OOC apology to everyone here on NS...

Firstly... I'd like to apologize to the NS RPing community here. The recent mobilization of forces in ViZionarian controlled lands was partially due to OOC knowledge of a possible invasion of me by multiple nations, most of whom are part of #Draftroom on IRC chatline.

That should not have happened. IC and OOC should NEVER mix, and the actions of mine, being that this was based on the defense of my nation, is part of what ruins the integrity and fun of this game. I've always been an advocate of OOC and IC not mixing, yet I myself get involved in an OOC/IC mixture in that. I'm sorry for that, and can understand should anyone feel I have harmed this game by that action.

Secondly... I'd like to aplogize to those on the #Draftroom and beyond whom don't like me. Why? Because I have apparently done something that has offended you guys, or upset you guys, that makes you not like me. I honestly have no clue WHAT I did, but whatever it is, I'm sorry. I'm also sorry I used OOC information to prepare ICly for your attacks.

I have closed down the threads preparing for the attack, and will also agree to not involve myself in any of you guys' RPs so there are no further altercations of this sort.

However... I would like an explanation by those of you who were planning to use OOC reasoning as a basis for an IC attack on me.

I would also like to know WHAT I did that wronged you - rather you were going to be involved in that invasion or not - so that you do not like me. I would simply like to know WHAT or WHY. I would also like to be able to make it up if possible.

Anyway, again, I'm sorry to the NS RPing community for using OOC information to prepare ICly, and as such those related threads are officially closed from here on out.

I'd also like to once again say that, for this exact reason, IC and OOC do not mix! It will only ruin this game. Which is why I have elected to no longer RP with those whom do not like me/those that I do not get along with OOCly.

A few misconceptions to clarify...
#1. This does not include all of Draftroom - there are many good and responsible members on it that were not, nor would get involved in, an OOC/IC mixture RP, and as such only a few on #Draftroom were involved.
#2. Allanea was NOT my original informant, rather one of multiple I had on this.

And, one last note... Merry Christmas!

If they were planning to attack you for OOC reasons. They are the ones at fault. If they were OOCly planning to attack you for OOC reasons, it should be acceptable to defend yourself from an OOC attack. It's only fair.

I'd like to kick off this discussion with *insert generic indignant rant here.* TBH, if it was all of #draftroom, you'd have been blitzed before the end of the day, because I and others move FAST when given the opportunity and inclination. It was, to my knowledge, a select few (especially considering I never saw any discussion of this, and I have NO life AKA am on #draftroom all the time)

BTW guys, so you know what exactly ViZion is talking about, #draftroom is a channel on Esper.net, Chatzilla URL irc://irc.esper.net/draftroom. There are at any given time about 20 people online, of a community numbering well over 40, nigh 50 I think.

Anyways, I'd like to point out that as one of the many citizens of the Draftroom IRC channel, I've got nothing to do with this, have no clue what you're going on about, and can safely say most of the rest of draftroom feels the same.



Second, I'd like to point out that you are perfectly within your right to take advantage of a few things that just MIGHT
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=294969
be of worth if you don't agree with things.

Third, Lone Alliance, your sig is EPIC.

If they were planning to attack you for OOC reasons. They are the ones at fault. If they were OOCly planning to attack you for OOC reasons, it should be acceptable to defend yourself from an OOC attack. It's only fair.
I'm still partly to blame. I simply should have outright done nothing instead of preparing. I involved myself in a mixture of OOC and IC, which is wrong. Thus, I am partially accountable for this.

If simply because of my nations age, younger nations/players look upto me - among countless others - and what I did was giving a completely wrong example of how to go about RPing on NS.

I'd like to kick off this discussion with *insert generic indignant rant here.* TBH, if it was all of #draftroom, you'd have been blitzed before the end of the day, because I and others move FAST when given the opportunity and inclination. It was, to my knowledge, a select few (especially considering I never saw any discussion of this, and I have NO life AKA am on #draftroom all the time)

BTW guys, #draftroom is a channel on Esper.net, Chatzilla URL irc://irc.esper.net/draftroom. There are at any given time about 20 people online, of a community numbering well over 40, nigh 50 I think.

Anyways, I'd like to point out that as one of the many citizens of the Draftroom IRC channel, I've got nothing to do with this, have no clue what you're going on about, and can safely say most of the rest of draftroom feels the same.
Sorry, that was not directed at ALL members of #Draftroom, and I'll edit my post to make that clearer.

Second, I'd like to point out that you are perfectly within your right to take advantage of a few things that just MIGHT
http://forums2.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=294969
be of worth if you don't agree with things.
Heh, yes, I actually recently announced my Ignore Missile, which would have been perfect for this. *kicks self for being an idiot* I have been wanting to test it, too... lol

As far as I am concerned, you're not at fault.

It's the people who go "OMG ViZion/Kahanistan/whoever is a nublet let's beat on him more" who are at fault.

You were perfectly in the right to fortify your lands.

Or to fire the IGNORE superweapons.

Or to declare your leader is invulnerable and can rip tanks apart with his bare hands.

They're the ones being unreasonable.

As far as I am concerned, you're not at fault.

It's the people who go "OMG ViZion/Kahanistan/whoever is a nublet let's beat on him more" who are at fault.

You were perfectly in the right to fortify your lands.

Or to fire the IGNORE superweapons.

Or to declare your leader is invulnerable and can rip tanks apart with his bare hands.

They're the ones being unreasonable.

Seeing as you picked up on a plan that wasn't even to do with invasion or any sort of threat of military action. You then told them OOC'ly of this and posted reinforcing positions which Praetonia picked up on, then the topic the other day was the final straw. Yes you have the right to reinforce your lands if there is an IC justification or determined threat such as a couple of people mobilising for war but this never happened.

Eh, sorry for offtopic. But can us, in modern technology, construct (and mass producing) viruses/bacteria firing weapon?

ViZion and Allanea Thanks for stopping this before it became a massive pissing contest. I don't hang in the draft room and I did not know what was happening behind the scene so I was a little blindsided by this (I knew there was going to be an invasion but did not know there would be any OCC problem like this). Both you guys were big enough to say hey we need to stop this before it got out of hand.
If you guys want to role play the invasion the right way then I am in just let me know and the rules you want to follow. I have seen to many RPs self destruct because of some unsolvable OCC BS by one party or another.
You guys are willing to talk and deal with the issues like real adults and that is refreshing.

ViZion...I look up to you, usually. :D

And I think you can, Java-Minang, but that might get Post MT, so...they can be primitive, I guess.

Ok, thanks for it. Then I never done God-Modding! Well, maybe an overrated high tech. However it can be fixed quite easily.
What about prototipe weapon? Please go to the 3rd page of Rebellion of Java-Minang and see my post then tell me do I done God-Modding or not.

Completely off-topic, so:

OOOOC(Out of OOC): Well, you really haven't specifified the weapon's abilities. Bomb? Missle? Anyway, bombs or grenades are MT...don't know about missles

I'm guessing NSII has accepted your apology; as for your hand in the matter, personally, I don't find you at fault.

Now just get back to RP'ing already, I looked forward to your posts when I had my very first nation and I still do.

Offtopic:No missile. I wanted that my AR can shoot Ebola in their bullets. So when a bullet hit (or not hit) the opposition must be dieing...
And the grenade got anthrax so when opened Antrax bacteria spouring out and plageuing the opposition.
That and that. Maybe I will edit my post that said I have mass-produced them. Only prototipes.

Offtopic: First of all, it's prototype. Second, it would be incredibly painstaking to load ebola into small bullets...I don't know about anthrax. Plz stop posting offtopic after this post. PM/TG if you need to

I do believe I almost had the same problem as you when I found quite a few people on the draftroom and on II have no sense of humour.

OOOOC: Coat a bullet in Antrax spores, or get a hollowhead round and stick them in there, and you're done.

For missiles and grenades, you can fix them up with biological warheads. Just remember that the viral ones don't last long and the bacterial/other ones need to be kept cold.

Offtopic OK, I have made a thread about that at II. Let discuss it there

On topic: I want to apologize to Prazinia. 'My nation' I mean the formal one, the De Facto, The government. The rebels, on the other hand, may put spies near your land...

On topic: I want to apologize to Prazinia. 'My nation' I mean the formal one, the De Facto, The government. The rebels, on the other hand, may put spies near your land...

no you not this has nothing to do with this topic and FYI just saying out of the Blue that you have spies in or near someone nation with out RPing them getting there is God modding

Well, well. OK OK. I announce I made a mistake. A very critical one. I do God-Modding ...
OK, I will not entering some spies without RPing them first

I do believe I almost had the same problem as you when I found quite a few people on the draftroom and on II have no sense of humour.

(OOC: Ouch.)

Since no one seems to know what has been going on (although many seem to think they do) I will explain from the beginning, since I am, unfortunately, the (indirect and unintentional) root cause of this mess.

Essentially, I was planning to start an RP about the future of the part of ViZion Italy that came under my control following the ViZion Civil War. I anticipated that this would cause some sort of conflict, as ViZion would most likely want to try to stop Praetonia from creating a secure and stable political settlement with ex-ViZion Italy as an independent entity. I anticipated that this would result in a fun political and military RP.

Unfortunately, I told Willink, Doomingsland and Clandonia about this (Willink and Clan because they are allied to Praetonia and would probably support its attempt to establish this political settlement, and Doomingsland because he is the other occupier of ex-ViZion Italy) via query (an IRC private messaging function), and as a result we only vaguely alluded to it on the main channel.

Allanea interpretted the limited information he received (ie. the snippets on the main channel, rather than the 'full picture' which only Doomingsland, Willink, Clandonia and myself knew) to mean we were planning to invade ViZion for no particular IC reason (not entirely unreasonable either - #draftroom has been known to launch such wars in and the past), and informed you of this, leading to the regretable metagaming of defences. [Your apology is accepted, btw. I realise it was mostly Allanea who told you to do this. For the sake of completeness, he told me OOCly over IRC that this was a plan to covertly annex you. I don't know if this is true - make of it what you will.]

Now there is certainly an anti-ViZion sentiment on the #draftroom channel. I don't really know what has caused this, but I think it is mostly banter with no particular cause (#draftroom gets very carried away, clandonia in particular is the target of ruthless banter, despite being a regular member), and those responsible for it are, for the most part, not the people who would have been involved in this RP. For my own part, I certainly do not hate you, and I do not want either a mutual ignore or to see your country destroyed (although Praetonia ICly may have other views, since it wants to hang on to its possessions...).

This is, I believe, the full story. My particular take on it is that ViZion's actions were not ultimately justifiable, but also not unreasonable given what he thought was going on. Allanea quite deliberately manipulated OOC and IC information for self-advantage - if anyone is to be blamed it is him, but again, he was mainly acting on assumptions he made as a result of incomplete information. For the most part, I think this is just a very large misunderstanding. If ViZion does not want to go ahead with the RP (as I outlined above, not the mythical #draftroom dogpile invasion) then I will understand, but I would much prefer it if he did.

I do believe I almost had the same problem as you when I found quite a few people on the draftroom and on II have no sense of humour.

Nah, it was just the fact that you're not funny. At all. Whatsoever.

Or maybe it is because you don't understand the jokes?

No, I understood them, and its something a 7 year old with a stunted growth of humour would find amusing. I mean, 'The Melon Cannon'? What the hell?

Or maybe it is because you don't understand the jokes?

Whether they are humorous or not is a matter of opinion. The NS Draftroom is a tasteless place with no sense of decency. They might find the racist banter they regularly engage in to be amusing, but I certainly didn't. Either way it's a matter of taste. I do realise that OOC and IC do quite frequently intermingle amongst its members, however.

Not everyone who goes on #draftroom engages in "racist banter". Many of us find it just as tasteless as you, but the channel's anarchic rules do not make it a banable offence unless it is done with malice.

Whether they are humorous or not is a matter of opinion. The NS Draftroom is a tasteless place with no sense of decency. They might find the racist banter they regularly engage in to be amusing, but I certainly didn't. Either way it's a matter of taste. I do realise that OOC and IC do quite frequently intermingle amongst its members, however.

Decency is for the weak. If you can't handle #d, then don't go in #d and don't worry about what happens in #d. If all we talked about were pretend weapons of war, there wouldn't be 40-50 people who go there.

Yeah, we do mix OOC and IC crap in there, but you know what, who cares. Better to communicate than not to communicate(outside the forum) as far as RPs go.

Decency is for the weak. If you can't handle #d, then don't go in #d and don't worry about what happens in #d. If all we talked about were pretend weapons of war, there wouldn't be 40-50 people who go there.

Yeah, we do mix OOC and IC crap in there, but you know what, who cares. Better to communicate than not to communicate(outside the forum) as far as RPs go.

(OOC: Not to mention that this OOC communication makes us all better as NS players and RPers. You know what they say... if you can't handle the racism/sexism/blatant noob-hatery/general derision/occasional your-mom joke then stay out of the kitchen.)

I humbly recommend we stay on-topic.

To clarify, Allanea was not the person who originally informed me of this. Allanea was simply one of multiple people who gave me a heads up. Also, I do not think Allanea meant to cause a problem like this, rather it was my decision to prepare without IC knowledge of an impending attack - Allanea, as we as the others, did not say "Hey, we're sending troops to you because of what I heard." It was them responding to my request for help. Again, as I said before, I am partly to blame here, not so much those who came to build up.

None of my 'informants' will be named. I will, though, talk to them to see if there's more to the story that they know and haven't shared, or if what I was told was all of what they heard.

Also... Merry Christmas everyone!

For those who complain about #draftroom's humour, or lack thereof:

A forum for designing and discussing weapons, and an IRC channel for the same, tends to appeal to a certain demographic group. This demographic group, in the case of #draftroom, is a subset of the basic demographic group of NS -- young and male -- combined with above-average levels of aggressiveness and, I suspect, a wee bit of insecurity. (I'm no psychologist, but it doesn't take a degree to see that.) As a result, many of its members enjoy antagonising others they dislike, winning wars, and including plenty of gratuitous violence (and, in some cases -- probably those most lacking it -- sex) in their roleplay posts. Like all IRC communities I've seen to date, it's highly elitist and a few hours each day are spent bashing virtually everybody who is not part of it -- common targets include Pythogria, Hataria, Kahanistan, DMG (the only major weapons designer and seller who is not part of the NS Draftroom), any alliance formed after the year 2005, Clandonia Prime (even though he is actually a much better roleplayer now), and whoever is the newest regular member -- most recently Central Prestonia -- as well as "n00bs-of-the-week". Alfegos, I'm afraid this is your week.

#draftroom regulars are probably going to be the first to accuse me of talking out of my rear end. So as a disclaimer, I point out that this post consists of my impressions based on several months in the channel, and should not be taken as facts.

Thanks. I honestly thought they would be doing so. I guess I'll be expecting some unjustified invasions soon.

For those who complain about #draftroom's humour, or lack thereof:

A forum for designing and discussing weapons, and an IRC channel for the same, tends to appeal to a certain demographic group. This demographic group, in the case of #draftroom, is a subset of the basic demographic group of NS -- young and male -- combined with above-average levels of aggressiveness and, I suspect, a wee bit of insecurity. (I'm no psychologist, but it doesn't take a degree to see that.) As a result, many of its members enjoy antagonising others they dislike, winning wars, and including plenty of gratuitous violence (and, in some cases -- probably those most lacking it -- sex) in their roleplay posts. Like all IRC communities I've seen to date, it's highly elitist and a few hours each day are spent bashing virtually everybody who is not part of it -- common targets include Pythogria, Hataria, Kahanistan, DMG (the only major weapons designer and seller who is not part of the NS Draftroom), any alliance formed after the year 2005, Clandonia Prime (even though he is actually a much better roleplayer now), and whoever is the newest regular member -- most recently Central Prestonia -- as well as "n00bs-of-the-week". Alfegos, I'm afraid this is your week.

#draftroom regulars are probably going to be the first to accuse me of talking out of my rear end. So as a disclaimer, I point out that this post consists of my impressions based on several months in the channel, and should not be taken as facts.

(OOC: Quit talking out of your rear end.

You forgot TPM, too.)

This thread is about (a) imported ViZion's sensible apology (b) developments therefrom.

This thread is not about (a) the virtues, or lack thereof, of another forum -- note that, Barkozy; (b) any other RP (Java-Minang and Shansekia, thank you for taking that elsewhere).

I humbly recommend we stay on-topic.
Not so humbly, me too.
Also... Merry Christmas everyone!
Enthusiastically, me too.

Hey, Ardchoille, I don't suppose a rule could be added about drama importation?

None of my 'informants' will be named. I will, though, talk to them to see if there's more to the story that they know and haven't shared, or if what I was told was all of what they heard.
Unless one of your 'informants' was Praetonia, Clandonia, Willink, or myself, then your informants didn't know the full story. Period. As Prae said, some people heard some random talk on the general board and interperetted it the wrong way (that we were going to attack you for OOC reasons...well, as Prae said we weren't going to attack you in the first place and there were no OOC reasons other then wanting to have a good RP) and went and told you without knowing what was really going on. It's quite simple. Now, we can either continue with the witch hunt or move past this, it's your choice.

Any serious ViZion war/zomgclusterfuck information was kept to a separate channel (which I visited in order to make a deal*). The only information discussed in #draftroom itself regarding the war or whatever was in very vague, general terms ("war with vizion hurf durf"). So I can back up Doom's claims.

Also I second Axis.

Alfegos, I'm afraid this is your week.

Pretty sure I've never seen Alfegos mentioned on #draftroom aside from when I was trying to get his contract for a pistol. :/

*Nothing major. I wanted some POW's to run horrible horrible medical experiments on.

Unless one of your 'informants' was Praetonia, Clandonia, Willink, or myself, then your informants didn't know the full story. Period. As Prae said, some people heard some random talk on the general board and interperetted it the wrong way (that we were going to attack you for OOC reasons...well, as Prae said we weren't going to attack you in the first place and there were no OOC reasons other then wanting to have a good RP) and went and told you without knowing what was really going on. It's quite simple. Now, we can either continue with the witch hunt or move past this, it's your choice.
Precisely.

-_- I don't see any issues with ViZion, and I support any closed moves that he attempts to do with certain people. OOC and IC shouldn't mix, it did, but now let's go back and make it work :) that's the nice thing about RP, you can always restart.

I object STRONGLY to commentary from The Charr and Alfegos. I do not remember ever seeing them on the channel, so if they have been on, it was surely for a rather short period of time. Vojvodina-Nihon I have never seen on with any great frequency.

But past that, enough drama, why not actually post? :) certain aforementioned detractors might consider productivity more worthwhile than senselessly pontificating on an IRC channel they have neglected to attend to with any real regularity.

Merry Christmas everyone

EDIT: I have just been told that Vojvodina-Nihon is Vodina, sorry about that. He's been on a bit, but I'd still say he's talking about the glass being half empty.

-_- I don't see any issues with ViZion, and I support any closed moves that he attempts to do with certain people. OOC and IC shouldn't mix.

I object STRONGLY to commentary from The Charr and Alfegos. I do not remember ever seeing them on the channel, so if they have been on, it was surely for a rather short period of time. Vojvodina-Nihon I have never seen on with any great frequency.

But past that, enough drama, why not actually post? :) certain aforementioned detractors might consider productivity more worthwhile than senselessly pontificating on an IRC channel they have neglected to attend to with any real regularity.

Merry Christmas everyone

Actually, I come on practically every day, or every other day; and I usually spend about half an hour actually looking at the channel and saying things, although I am in the channel for up to twelve hours on days I go on (as my computer is usually on all day). And I've been doing this for about four months, so I've formed a moderately informed opinion of the channel in that time, despite supposedly limited experience. I've seen The Charr only once or twice, and Alfegos never.

anyway, I guess I'm done here.

Pleasant non-denominational celebration occurring around the time of the winter solstice to all concerned.

Pleasant non-denominational celebration occurring around the time of the winter solstice to all concerned.

Because political correctness is cool. :rolleyes:

For those who complain about #draftroom's humour, or lack thereof:

A forum for designing and discussing weapons, and an IRC channel for the same, tends to appeal to a certain demographic group. This demographic group, in the case of #draftroom, is a subset of the basic demographic group of NS -- young and male -- combined with above-average levels of aggressiveness and, I suspect, a wee bit of insecurity. (I'm no psychologist, but it doesn't take a degree to see that.) As a result, many of its members enjoy antagonising others they dislike, winning wars, and including plenty of gratuitous violence (and, in some cases -- probably those most lacking it -- sex) in their roleplay posts. Like all IRC communities I've seen to date, it's highly elitist and a few hours each day are spent bashing virtually everybody who is not part of it -- common targets include Pythogria, Hataria, Kahanistan, DMG (the only major weapons designer and seller who is not part of the NS Draftroom), any alliance formed after the year 2005, Clandonia Prime (even though he is actually a much better roleplayer now), and whoever is the newest regular member -- most recently Central Prestonia -- as well as "n00bs-of-the-week". Alfegos, I'm afraid this is your week.

#draftroom regulars are probably going to be the first to accuse me of talking out of my rear end. So as a disclaimer, I point out that this post consists of my impressions based on several months in the channel, and should not be taken as facts.
Sorry to go off topic, but is this a puppet of an older nation?