NationStates Jolt Archive

Ehem. Too much OOC clutter already.

Now, let me provide you with a list of colonies that are worth invading:

East Indies (Spices and Tea galore)
West Indies (Chocolate and Sugar galore)
Naucratis/Cape Colony (I'm sure there's something to have there)
Spire (Coal and Oil)
Gateway (Various Ores)
Archangel (Agricultural) [Right across from one of your colonies]
Golddale (Gold & Silver)

I was just about to make one of these myself. Anyways, I think I'm going to start with Gateway, I also have a colony in the area. So I'll edit my post accordingly... lets just pretend I was heading there all along, never intending to take Graecia.

Sounds good...

Do you have a new post for Gateway, or is it the same response from Graecia?

Same post. Except you've got some naval battling and the civvies are evacuated, heading to VP.

Do you want to post your fleet engaging mine at 300kms? Or would you like me to move closer to land?

Either or. I'll let you decide.

You can attack now if you'd like, I am at 300km's, so it would be an appropriate area to fight. If you'd like to just post your forces, and how far they are from me, I can make the first attack, or you can just post your forces and attack. [As long as they are not within 300km's, I would have attacked far before.] Moving in closer would just be me posting something like this.

"Fleet moves closer. 200km's out. The end"

Wait, how many ships are you sending to Gateway? I'm not sure if the list you gave is total attacking force or just for Gateway.

The first list was total, the second list is heading towards Gateway.

Alright, no nukes, that's respectable enough. Now, what about use of chemical and biologicals? Same, or acceptable?

If you had stayed in Haven this would of never happened!

I noticed. But then again, he's not going near my homeland anyways, so...

Alright, no nukes, that's respectable enough. Now, what about use of chemical and biologicals? Same, or acceptable?
I have no problem with them... however I wouldn't suggest firing at my homeland... for the same reasons as the nukes. But be aware, by troops standard uniforms include bio-chem gear included in their equipment [along with dragon skin - hence the reason they are bulky and slow]... so it won't be all that effective.

FYI my fleet is headed to gateway to provide air support for the battle. Too bad that I have to rp an endless vendetta against you Kroando, im sure youre a nice guy in person.

FYI my fleet is headed to gateway to provide air support for the battle. Too bad that I have to rp an endless vendetta against you Kroando, im sure youre a nice guy in person.
Don't worry, I'm not a nice guy. And your vendetta isn't endless. It will come to an abrupt end when Logan and Ky is commonly referred to as 'Kroando's Nuclear Waste Dump Site'.

Haha, just kidding... but seriously...

Also, please post when your forces get within 400miles of mine Logan. Speaking of which, what nickname do you prefer? LK? Logan? I just hate typing Logan and Ky every time...

O.o No friendly competition then? All right *Insert random battle cry here* its on.

Just say Logan, oh and my fleets still about 800 miles away.

Ah, it's always in good wholesome friendly competition. I guess I was asking for it by dumping nuclear waste in your seas...

I'd say you're safely out of my range still. I'd know of your presence, but you're pretty much safe for a while.

Lord Sumguy: Erika Redmark is dead.

Kroando: I'm not exactly fluent with naval battles, so bear with me. You've given me a lot of insight so far... as an IC excuse Gateway hasn't ever been threatened and the fleet is just to enfore the tolls on the bay, so it's not exactly war ready. Yeah, IC excuse. Anyways, when you get to the more important colonies, I'll be ready.

Hey, you're just me two years ago. No worries. Everyone has to learn.

Say, Kroando, is your currency freely traded? If it is, I think I might induce a little bit of inflation to worsen shortages in your country.

Actually, it's not traded at all. I have been meaning to do a write up on my currency, but I guess for the time being, I'll give a brief explanation right here.

Kroandon Credit is basically a person's, or organization's credit standing with the Kroandon Central Bank. The value of a single credit is fixed, and cannot be adjusted, regardless of production or spending. There is no paper currency, as all person's have access to their funds via their identification cards. [A ID card serves as a lisence, a credit card, library card, access card, everything] Anyways, the only way to produce more credit is to recieve it from one of the five Korporations. The five Korporations, being the only one's capable of generating credit, are the only ones whom could cause inflation. However in reality, the five major Korporations [Honvorg Iron & Arms, Helicon Inc., HydroKorp, KEK and Junkers Korp] do not produce new credit unless it is through foriegn sales, all other credit is actually recycled. As the Korporations own pretty much everything [food, housing, power, everything], whatever they pay their workers actually ends up back with them. [Roughly 30% of their profit goes to the government] It goes something like this.

Korporations > Workers > Workers Put their Credit into KCB [bank] > Workers Spend their Money on food, booze, gambling, housing, clothing, etc. > Back to Korporations, whom own all of the above

In order to cause inflation, you would have to create a massive number of credits. To do so, you would have to purchase massive sums of product from a Korporation. But even if you were to do so, the Korporations would be the only ones in possession of the credit, thus limiting it's access to the market, thus not causing inflation at all.

So to answer your question... No.

Okay, I like that people are coming to my aide, but from now on only three people on my side per theater, including the LION RRF and myself. Don't want to make this a dogpile.

And yeah, mind if I do some relatively harmless digital and economic warfare? Things like spamming all public government and Korporate networks, hacking the Korporations to send money out of nation, etc.

Stealing Kroandon Credits would be rather pointless, as they would simply be invalidated as soon as they were illegally exported. Additionally, with one of the toughest defense networks in the world, it would take a long as time to hack it. As to spamming networks, again, its a war of hackers... and as I have more hackers [serving as counter-hackers], and more money... you can try, but I doubt much would come of it.

As to numbers, I really don't mind a slight dog pile. I am the aggressor, so I deserve a bit of it.

Lord Sumguy: Erika Redmark is dead.

Kroando: I'm not exactly fluent with naval battles, so bear with me. You've given me a lot of insight so far... as an IC excuse Gateway hasn't ever been threatened and the fleet is just to enfore the tolls on the bay, so it's not exactly war ready. Yeah, IC excuse. Anyways, when you get to the more important colonies, I'll be ready.

oh, oops. edited.

Does it seem excessive to anyone that I just launched 400 missiles against 50 fighters? I mean, they do each carry 3 of those defensive missiles that, according to Kroando, have a 98% hit probability. However even if every one of those defensive missiles shot down one of my AMRAAM's, there would still be 5 for each plane. Ah well they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and Kroando seems to like massive missile spams...

Actually, I only sent 10 aircraft at you, so you sent 40 missiles at each of my aircraft. Which is exactly what I would do should I ever fight someone bigger than myself with better tech. 'Evade that ya sonofabitch' No I liked it. If you had only fired 2 at each, AMRAAM's, evasive manuvers, chaff, flares, stealthiness, etc. I'd still have a few plans left.

And the 98% thing I believe was meant to be in relation to shooting down cruise/ballistic missiles. Probably 30% against an AA Missile. Let me check, I may have typed it up incorrectly.

And 1010102, I have many more fleets than the one currently engaged at Gateway. I may have one intercept your fleet enroute to Gateway. Would you have a problem with this?

Actually, I only sent 10 aircraft at you, so you sent 40 missiles at each of my aircraft. Which is exactly what I would do should I ever fight someone bigger than myself with better tech. 'Evade that ya sonofabitch' No I liked it. If you had only fired 2 at each, AMRAAM's, evasive manuvers, chaff, flares, stealthiness, etc. I'd still have a few plans left.

And 1010102, I have many more fleets than the one currently engaged at Gateway. I may have one intercept your fleet enroute to Gateway. Would you have a problem with this?

sure, Specs to your Halcons pleze?

Look under Kro-Tech, everything I use should either be there, RL, or have a link in my military factbook.

You have a link to your naval force stats?

ooc: I may have misunderstood you Kroando, I was under the impression that all 50 Halcons were within 40 miles of my F-16's, not 10. Even I wouldnt have shot 40 missiles at each plane...
K, we'll just assume a lesser number. How many missiles per plane?

Yes intercepting my fleet near gateway would be acceptable. However be aware that my fleet is stationed just off the coast, and the will have support from the ground.

Its in my sig. I know it says FT, but it has an MT section aswell.

Yes intercepting my fleet near gateway would be acceptable. However be aware that my fleet is stationed just off the coast, and the will have support from the ground.
I was referring to 1010102's fleet. Your fleet I'm including in the battle for gateway, alongside Vontanas'.

100x Type 32 AAW Destroyer
500xType 31 ASW Destroyer
200xType 29 Class General Purpose Destroyer
200x Type 27 Class AA Frigate
I was looking through your factbook, and couldn't seem to find those. I may just be retarded, but would you mind helping me a bit there?

I was looking through your factbook, and couldn't seem to find those. I may just be retarded, but would you mind helping me a bit there?

If its there, its a forgien design. I'll edit the link to quester's naval storefront in a sec.

link (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=543501)

I was referring to 1010102's fleet. Your fleet I'm including in the battle for gateway, alongside Vontanas'.

ok then, oh and shouldnt Vontanas currently be engaging you in a naval battle? He should post soon...

FYI i'll change the number of F-16's shot down from the LACI's to be higher if you like, but you even say on Kro-tech that theyre intended for shooting down ICBM's and cruise missiles. Not highly maneuverable fighters that can accellerate to nearly three times their speed.

No, my mistake for never upgrading the LACI. Will do after this war ends. The SDCI should be enough to get me through the war. And yes, I am engaging Vontanas navally... there is not much left of his fleet however.

By the way ive been wondering something, exactly how far off the coast of Gateway is the battle taking place?

I've been assuming it's somewhere in the middle and away abit. There's a southern and northern peninsula that open up to a bay, so invading is going to be an interesting process once boots hit the ground.

Where could I find a map of Gateway? Oh and you are aware that ive landed a large number of troops there, right?

Where could I find a map of Gateway? Oh and you are aware that ive landed a large number of troops there, right?

Factbook, and no. The more the merrier, I suppose. But, I just don't want to many people in on this directly fighting at once. LION members are suggested to let Orzio (temporary LION commander) control the forces of all LION nations helping. Makes things less jumbled.

There is a map of Gateway in his factbook under 'Gateway', or in my factbook, under 'New Grevestok'. We both have colonies on the land mass. My fleet was 300km's from the coast when the battle began, so to the north east of the top land mass would be about right.

Factbook, and no. The more the merrier, I suppose. But, I just don't want to many people in on this directly fighting at once. LION members are suggested to let Orzio (temporary LION commander) control the forces of all LION nations helping. Makes things less jumbled.

Im aware of this, but im not a member of LION, my war with Kroando is ostensibly to help protect you from the "Kroandan menace" but is essentially a form of revenge for his nuclear waste dumping in my waters.

Speaking of which, my invasion of Logan and Ky will be up shortly. Before I post it, do you have a map?

Speaking of which, my invasion of Logan and Ky will be up shortly. Before I post it, do you have a map?

yeah just a minute...

Hey how do I send something from paint?

Host it on Imageshack.

All right here you go

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5525/loganandkyhz5.png

Note that the red spots are major cities, the green area is the country itself, the black area is foreign countrys, and the blue area is the ocean (obviously) with New Hilingrad (population 20 million) being the one on the top left, Lennonton (population 10 million) on the bottom, and the capital city of Tyrins (Population 50 million) Being at the center. In terms of size the country is comparable to the former soviet union at the height of its power. As for geography It's mostly Dense Pine forests, with the exception of the southern coast which is mostly rolling hills, and above the mountains which is essentially a volcanic, frozen waste.

By the way, I generally like to consider Logan and Ky as being on the other side of the planet from Kroando, and if you are going to send a fleet to invade, dont rp that you suddenly showed up at my shore, I have early warning sattellites. I would see you coming as soon as you set out.

Yes, I also consider you to be on the other side of the globe [hence why I dumped nuclear waste in your ocean]. Don't worry, my first post will be, IC'lly, 3 or 4 weeks after the invasion of Gateway, and my fleet will still be roughly 2,000 miles away from your country.

Few questions about your post/the number of aircraft you are operating.

After the success of the F-16's on the Kroandan ships compared to that of the B-54's, the Admiral decided that an overwhelming F-16 attack was in order. This attack was to be combined with a number of F-22's which would provide protection from any Kroandan planes that managed to get in the air. All in all 1,000 F-16's launched from the ground, with an additional 200 f-22's flying alongside. They had 300 KM to go from Gateway, but at Mach 2 it wouldnt take them very long. They intented to get to fleet and overwhelm them before they had a chance to recover from the Vontanian attack.

As the 1,000 F-16's neared their target, they released a total of 4,000 AGM-119 Penquin anti-ship missiles, which were aimed at a huge variety of Kroandan ships. (Im assuming that you couldnt send out Halcons because youre being attacked by Vontanas, it wouldnt have made a huge difference anyways).

You have about 1,900 total fighter jets [not including bombers]. You have 6 Nimitz's. Now the Nimitz is meant to carry F/A-18 Hornets, which can fold their wings, not fixed wing F-22's or F-16's, but we can just ignore that. My question is how 6 Nimitz's managed to transport 1,900 aircraft, as each only can carry a maximum of 84 aircraft, which would mean 504 total. And since these aircraft are fixed wing, they would take up more space, and thus, you would not be able to even fit 84 on each, probably more like 50 or 60. Anyways, the number of F-16's isn't the problem [would cost you ~25Billion for 1,500], it's how you got them all there on 6 Aircraft Carriers.

Now if you somehow transported them on massive cargo barges, which may be possible, it would take days to unload them to shore. And as I arrived in Gateway before you... they would not be ready for battle yet.

Just a small issue I think we should discuss before we continue.

How far is Gateway from Vantania Proper? Just curious.

Never really bothered with distance, as it hasn't been an issue before, but we'll call it 3.5 thousand miles.

K, so I guess my fleet's got another NS day till it joins the fight. Damn, was hoping it would be a little closer than that.

Oh, if anyone needs them, the stats for the F-25 SeaHawk are here (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1627)

Just so everyone knows, there is another Kroandon Fleet between Vontanas Proper and Gateway, I will post it's stats, and it's response to the Khan strike, in my next IC post.

LION: I know you mean well, but could you please let someone control your forces under the blanket "LION RRF" sort of thing? Orzio has dropped out, as he's rusty from war, so I'd prefer it if Binaria did it. I'd rather, for my sanity, not have to read through every LION members defense aide, so having it all under one person would help.

Everyone else: My side is not open to anymore defenders at the moment unless Logan and Ky drops out. Which is likely since he's apparently about to get invaded. Read the last sentence of the first paragraph of this post for my reasoning.

Actually, I'd rather let Binaria RP the whole LION forces this time. Its been a little bit since I've RPd a war on this scale, some I'm a little rusty. Unless this makes it all a hassle.

Just so everyone knows, there is another Kroandon Fleet between Vontanas Proper and Gateway, I will post it's stats, and it's response to the Khan strike, in my next IC post.

I don't remember seeing that in the IC posts, but I might have just missed it. Where would it generally be: the midpoint, or close to either VP or Gateway?

Actually I did, at the beginning, rp that I was carrying most of planes and whatever on cargo ships. Im not sure how long its been since I arrived at gateway, but it seems to me that I had sufficient time to unload most of them. Another thing is that I have 1,500 (plus 10 bombers) and not 1,900 fighters as you stated. Also note that I have the 1 Overlord class, which can hold 180 or so planes.

LION: I know you mean well, but could you please let someone control your forces under the blanket "LION RRF" sort of thing? Orzio has dropped out, as he's rusty from war, so I'd prefer it if Binaria did it. I'd rather, for my sanity, not have to read through every LION members defense aide, so having it all under one person would help.

Everyone else: My side is not open to anymore defenders at the moment unless Logan and Ky drops out. Which is likely since he's apparently about to get invaded. Read the last sentence of the first paragraph of this post for my reasoning.

yeah i'll probably stick around until the battle for Gateway is done, im supposedly not going to be attacked for another 3-4 NS weeks.

Well, in the IC/OOC discussion, once it was decided that the 'Grand Big Ass Army Fleet' wasn't heading towards Vantanas Proper any longer, it broke up and was heading to various colonies. One such fleet, stopped, to block LION's route to Gateway. All my attacks on his colonies are happening at the same time, they are just, for RP's sake, being RP'd one at a time.

I'd have no issue with Binaria running the combined LION forces. I'm allready dealing with the political flux thats currently happening. Binaria: I'll TG you my list of armed forces mobilized in the conflict tomorrow, okay?

Only thing he has to do now is accept...

300 F-22 raptors
360 F-16 Falcons
? number of long range bombers (I have 1000 B-52's and 100 B-54 Night Falcons)

Army/other air forces:

transported mainly by converted civilain freighters...

20 Legions. 100,000 people per legion, totaling 2 million Troops.

5000 Stryker APC's
2500 SHBT-2 Behemoth tanks
5000 M198 Howitzers
500 M-150 Warrior systems
500 AH-64 Apaches
300 F-22's
2000 A-10 thunderbolts
1000 F-16 Falcons

Seems there are 5,560 various aircraft [1,960 fighters - 1,360 F-16's/500 F-22's]. Also, I don't see how you would have arrived before me though, I was heading straight for it from the get go... by the time you mobilized and headed out. I was already mobilized and heading out. (And this place is 4,000km's from me, thus, a long ways from you) You had to mobilize, guess where I was going, and try to beat me there. It's unlikely enough that you would get there the same day as me, let alone before me. And 1,000 B-52's would take an ungodly number of transports to move. I still don't see how you could deploy so many aircraft so quickly, even with the 180 from the Dreadnought.

I could see 660 total [80 per carrier, 180 from Dread] thus only 300 left to take off in quick action. [10 bombers would easily consume the space of 60 jets]

Seems there are 5,060. Also, I don't see how you would have arrived before me though, I was heading straight for it from the get go... by the time you mobilized and headed out. It's unlikely enough that you would get there the same day as me, let alone before me.

I didnt say that I arrived before you or even on the same day, just that I had sufficient time to unload. The 1,500 number was refferring to the planes actually prepared to fight. So anyways lets go over this for a second, the Nimitz could carry 504 fighters, I used 300 in the original attack. This attack im using 1200, which means that 200 could be launched from the Nimitz, 1000 would have to takeoff from shore. I suppose I could delay the attack a little, lets say it took place a day after the original battle with me and Vontanas, and that you spent that day cleaning up from the battle. Is that acceptable?

oh and btw I wish I could take the numbers of what I was supposed to have transported to Gateway back, I wasnt exactly thinking of the logistics of it all. Im admittedly new to NS warfare...

I'd say it'd take at least a full 24 hours to unload that number of aircraft. However 24 hours after my battle with Vontanas, and I'd likely make an attack or two on your base. Another question would be does Vontanas even have enough runways for so many aircraft? He doesn't seem to have any aircraft there, and if he did those runways would likely be filled. No matter, lets just say that 36 hours after the fight with Vontanas, you would have unloaded your aircraft.

As to the logistics, it's what wins the wars. Can you imagine the amount of fuel those aircraft consume? Anyways, you're doing pretty good so far. You just have to take into consideration the time it takes to unload aircraft, supplies and whatnot... and more importantly, where they're being unloaded to.

I'd say it'd take at least a full 24 hours to unload that number of aircraft. However 24 hours after my battle with Vontanas, and I'd likely make an attack or two on your base. Another question would be does Vontanas even have enough runways for so many aircraft? He doesn't seem to have any aircraft there, and if he did those runways would likely be filled. No matter, lets just say that 36 hours after the fight with Vontanas, you would have unloaded your aircraft.

Alright but lets just say that the B-52's and half of the A-10's are being transported back to Logan and Ky, and that their inclusion in the invading force was a horrendous computing error. So how's this attack going to work out then?

Thats fine, I didn't think you'd be able to transport that many anyways. My attack... well, once my battle with Vontanas is over, you shall see.

All right, well im gonna call it a night soon...

As am I... I have two finals I really need to get ontop of. Will continue tomarrow. Perhaps a quick post regarding my second fleet...

Logan and Ky, how do you fit B-54 Bombers, which according to DMG's thread is bigger than the B-52, on your SDs? It may say heavy bomber capable, having one take off even with a catapult would require the ship to be a signle flightdeck with out any large caliber guns what so ever. SO overlords are godmodes.

Well, actually im considering that my country and Gateway are 2,000 miles apart, and B-54's have a range of 7,500 miles, so they could easily have flown to the battle. Therefore Overlords are not godmodes. Besides, we both use them.

So... Kro, whenever you feel like responding. And Binaria, do you have an answer yet?

If I accept can fight how I want, and with no target or weaponry restrictions?

If I accept can fight how I want, and with no target or weaponry restrictions?

Yes...

Yes...

I'll do it.

Yes...
We did agree upon no nuclear weapons...

SO overlords are godmodes.
Regardless of the pheasibility, I do not use mine as carriers. Ergo... problem solved.

Bump.

ok currently my fleet is packing up and heading back to Logan and Ky pending youre soon to come invasion. Also on the issue of nukes and whatever, I wont use them, unless of course all hope is lost (Which would basically entail you overunning Tyrins).

Well in your worst case scenario, you would probably be better off accepting the terms I eventually present to you rather than nuclear war. Remember, my priorities are gaining natural resources, not wiping you off the earth. Even if I were to take your capital, it would only be to force you to the bargaining table, not to destroy you.

I have more common sense than to nuke you. what i meant is targeting your civilians with sublaunched cruise missiles.

First of all, Kroando was talking to me about the nukes. Second of all, Kroando, the troop numbers I gave you in the IC thread about your invasion did not include non combat personell. Are the numbers too high (4.5% of my population would be sent to fight, only about 1.2% of my population are proffessionally trained soldiers though).

LORD SUMGUY: Barzahl

In case anyone cares, I dont want a large amount of people interfering with Kroandos invasion, there is an open spot for maybe 1 person, but no OMG huge nations with 50,000 freakin ships. It ruins rp's when one side gets to overpowered. On the flip side, I wouldnt appreciate, and I dont think Kroando either would appreciate some nation jumping in with a huge fleet and completely overunning me. Im swamped enough with just Kroando attacking me...

Hey everyone, especially you Kroando, I would just like to declare once and for all that the plural form for Logan and Ky is KYAN, not Loganian and Kyian, not LK, its KYAN.

Yes, I will not be accepting any help in regards to my offensive campaigns. I do not have an IC desire to split my conquests... so ya. And anyways... no one likes me, so no one would ever think of helping me. Problem solved.

I have more common sense than to nuke you. what i meant is targeting your civilians with sublaunched cruise missiles.
If you can hit one of my cities with a missile... well bravo. [Hint - I have 6 Billion People, and 8 Cities]

I will remember the Kyan. It is also Kroandon.

I meant en mass launch. Each attack sub has 16, and I have 500 of those subs.stats (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1532) sub stats (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=1569&hl=)

Well you are free to try. Remember, Antarctika is 4000 miles away, and trust me, you will not find another person more paranoid about missiles hitting their cities than myself.

Well you are free to try. Remember, Antarctika is 4000 miles away, and trust me, you will not find another person more paranoid about missiles hitting their cities than myself.

I probably should have asked about it before I did that.

EDIT: I'm going to bed. Peace.

The Sub forces quit runing silent and began moving toward the Kroandon fleet that was landing on Gateway. When they would reach within forty kilometers they would fire a massive salvo of Mark 72 Heavy Torpedoes at the enemy fleet with the first part aimed at trying to catch the ASW ships off gaurd and destroying as many as they can.
Quick question. What path are your submarines taking to get to Gateway? I don't know if you saw it, but in one of my first posts I had my submarines deploy Rocket-Torpedo Mines a few hundred kilometers before my fleet. These mines lock onto anything making noise [whales & submarines included] within several hundred meters, and fire a high speed rocket-torpedo at the target. Now since you wouldn't know about the mines... anyways, I'll show you a map of whats going on and let you add/edit your post accordingly.

Map of Fleet Locations/Mines (http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4329/27633654sr6.png)

@ Vontanas, waiting for someone from your foreign ministry to take LS's call

it would be nice to have an official map with coordinates so we can use it the postings....

My nation would have requested access to some of the satellites to have a view of the battlefield to be more able to respond to battles and rescuing casualties... don't know if any would allow this?! My nation has not deployed satellites in this sector yet and not planning to while the war still rages on.

If any are planning to use anti-satellite weaponry, my nation could sell some satellites which are equipped with this... not launched yet but could be launched near the end of this current war as soon as everything is shipped and whoever launches it up in orbit.

sorry I havent been able to post much lately, a lot of things have been coming up. I might be gone for a day or two this weekend, but if not i'll get plenty of posting in. Anyways i've got another post up on the revisiting old friends thread.

Oh and by the way, I would like to more fully explain to you the geography of Logan and Ky. First of all, understand that nearly all major cities are located on the coast, Near Tyrins on the edge of the mountains, and in the northeast where there is very fertile volcanic soil. These are all connected by a series of 3 Superhighways which branch out from Tyrins (one going to New hilingrad, one to Lennonton, and one to the large city and farming centers in the northeast). Besides that, the inland area of Logan and Ky is entirely Boreal Forest (besides the wastes above the mountain range), with the Kyan pine accounting for most of the trees.

The Kyan pine trees are huge, over 300 feet tall and well over 10 feet wide. They branch out near the top, creating a canopy which causes the forest floor to be dark 24/7. The forest floor is one of the most interesting and dangerous environments in the world, the roots from the giant trees twist around and stick up out of the ground, sometimes creating tunnels and other odd formations on the forest floor. The forest is also reputed to contain huge, deadly animals, most of which are no yet documented due to the danger of actually traversing down there.

The Kyan pine trees are huge, over 300 feet tall and well over 10 feet wide. They branch out near the top, creating a canopy which causes the forest floor to be dark 24/7. The forest floor is one of the most interesting and dangerous environments in the world, the roots from the giant trees twist around and stick up out of the ground, sometimes creating tunnels and other odd formations on the forest floor. The forest is also reputed to contain huge, deadly animals, most of which are no yet documented due to the danger of actually traversing down there.

Sounds like the perfect place for Wawi training!!! Maybe after the war I'll IC you a request to send my religious students there for martial arts and small unit tactics training!?

Sounds like the perfect place for Wawi training!!! Maybe after the war I'll IC you a request to send my religious students there for martial arts and small unit tactics training!?

Sounds good.

Sounds like the perfect place for Wawi training!!! Maybe after the war I'll IC you a request to send my religious students there for martial arts and small unit tactics training!?
Ehem... don't you mean you'll IC me a request? Haha... just kidding. Anyways, looks like an excellent RP environment, I will get a post up ASAP.

How effective would a mass salvo of noise making torpedos fired from long range be?

The mine would be activated, making it ping [to determine what was making the noise], revealing it's location. However once it determined it was a torpedo, it would simply go back to passive search. So you wouldn't make the thing shoot, but you would know where it was. Nice approach, I will have to change the mine at the end of the war to counter such a move.

However you would not know about the mine of course until you ran into one...

The mine would be activated, making it ping [to determine what was making the noise], revealing it's location. However once it determined it was a torpedo, it would simply go back to passive search. So you wouldn't make the thing shoot, but you would know where it was. Nice approach, I will have to change the mine at the end of the war to counter such a move.

However you would not know about the mine of course until you ran into one...

After those SLBM, don't you think I'd step up ASW patrols? Also could dropping basicly depth charges on them either set them off or destroy the mine itself from the overpressure?

To the first part, I am certain you did step up the ASW Patrols, but even still, the mines were laid before the SLBM attack. Additionally they were layed over a thousand kilometers from your fleet, they probably would have gone undetected. As to the Depth Charge, you'd have to hit them pretty close to destroy them, there wouldn't be much in the way of over pressure, as the mine consists basically of a couple torpedos and a small, DU box.

As far as setting them off, no, explosions would not trigger the mine's sound sensors. Once you know where they are however, it's not all that difficult to destroy them. Be imaginative.

Disregard that last post (the deleted one).

Kroando please change your post on the revisiting old friends thread to reflect the fact that my fleet continued on, they did not stop and there is no possible way you could have caught up with them.

My last post did not say that your fleet did stop. It only said that I fired SLBM's at your fleet... which have over 2,000mile range. There was no actual post saying that your fleet stopped and I was engaging it. I am still following it, but the only attack I launched could have just as easily been fired from 5000 miles away as 100.

Hey Kroando what time zone are you in? It seems like we're always posting at different times of day. Also, I did a little research and the F-16 can indeed carry 6 AMRAAMs and 4 Penquin missiles, but at the price of not being able to carry a large load of bombs.

Hey Kroando what time zone are you in? It seems like we're always posting at different times of day. Also, I did a little research and the F-16 can indeed carry 6 AMRAAMs and 4 Penquin missiles, but at the price of not being able to carry a large load of bombs.
I'm in US East, but my schedule is messed up now, so I'm posting at weird hours throughout the day. It should normalize in coming days.

I'll post shortly.

A few questions: How are you doing all this?

Let me explain:

Before this war, in the "We Are Dying" thread, you stated that you were under economic recession, majorly. So, how are you affording all of this? These are my main points:

-In the "We Are Dying" thread, you stated that lots of men were joining the military. So, you can subtract training, feeding, and outfitting them from your war budget.
-Also, if so many of your people have been forced into unemployment, that seriously slashes at your tax base.
-Any profits at all you might have gotten from Gateway would be offset by the cost of poisoning the soil, the logistics and what-not of supplying Gateway, the cost of all those FOAB's you've been putting into the ground, and the cost of being to reinforce everything due to my guerillas.
-Afterall, you have to pay extra just to get the economy of Gateway restarted, redig through a bunch of rubble to get to the veins of ore, and farming can't be done with all of that poison you pumped into the soil.

So, basically, I'd think that the sheer cost of doing all of this would be catching up with you. RP'ing acknowledgement of this would be nice.

Nazi Germany was in a horrible economic recession before WWII, and only started to recover once they started annexing countries and going to war. Why? Because war did two things. It gave people jobs in the factories. And it gave people jobs in the military. Unemployment is now taking a complete 180. Regarding training and equipping, while training may be an issue, equipping them would not. My nation has massive... massive stockpiles of arms, bombs, ammunitions and FOABs. The forces I have deployed are also, are not even 1% of my population, thus would be rather easily supported, especially with my temporarily booming wartime economy.

War does damage a nations economy... however I have been at war for less than three weeks... economic impacts take months and months, if not years to come into effect. There will eventually be reprocussions, but not for awhile.

You can double that considering you're going to war with Logan and Ky. As for the positive benifits of war, I'm fully aware of them. It was war, among other things, that lifted the US off it's feet from the Great Depression and onto the road to Superpower-dom. Still, the annexations you've done so far, Gateway, have not given you much if any returns.

Another concern that's been raised is that you have a lot of ships. I'm not so sure of the sources so I'll just quote him directly:

"I'm mostly trying to figure out how large his navy is. He's put together at least three fleets totaling over 8000 ships in the Wolves thread alone, plus his attack on Logan and Ky with another 2500+ ships. Even with a 5+ billion nation, the construction and maintenance of this fleet alone would bankrupt him, much less scrape any money for an air force or army.

I've sent a little over 300 ships, and that's nearly the whole of my navy. Granted, I'm under a billion, but I still have an army and air force to finance.

Anyone else feel this is overkill?"

To which I responded:

"The biggest fleet I've ever seen raised on NS was Questers; he rose a whopping ten thousand ships, and that was because he was about to go into a major war, the Questo-Gholgothic War, and had his entire economy devoted to the war effort. Even then, he had other nations like myself supporting him. And Kroando is no Questers. Raise your concerns with him in the OOC thread."

Now we really need to get sources on those numbers. And just for reference, I am .046 from 6 Billion.

2500 at Logan and Ky. You counted 2,100 transport ships as military vessels. What they are are oil tankers that have been stolen by the government, and loaded with troops and tanks as transports. There are less than 400 military vessels attacking Logan and Ky. In comparison to "Questers Fleet" - which boasted pure military vessels, massive ones at that, not 'Repair Ships' and 'Support Ships', like mine do. Also, I have seen far larger fleets, with Praetonia deploying a fleet of 10,000 ships and calling it 'moderate'.

But, I will now go through and detail in my entire deployed fleet, note I have an annual defence budget of 37.732 Trillion, and this fleet was built over ten to fifteen years.

Logan and Ky Fleet
-12 Cadiz Class SSBN's - 24 Billion
-11 Tenerife Class SSBN's - 22 Billion
-25 Negotiator Class Destroyers - 32 Billion
-29 Nimitz Class Carriers* - 95 Billion
-7 Modernized Iowa Class Battle Ships (Strengthened Hulls - Upgraded Missile Defense Systems - Increased Missile Firing Capacity) - 7 Billion
-250 Visari Class Destroyers - 300 Billion
-25 Detection Class Logistic Boats (LADAR-RADAR-SONAR Systems - 1 CIWS Gun) - 9 Billion
-75 Repair Class Logistic Boats (Repair Equiptment - 1 CIWS Gun) - 50 Billion
-2,100 M-Class Carriers (Massive transport ships... massive.) - Stolen/Purchased Low Grade Transports - 21 Billion [10 Million Each]
-4 Overlord Class SuperDreadnoughts - 1.2 Trillion

TOTAL - 1.760 Trillion

Gateway Fleet
Naval Forces - Visari Class Destroyer 600 - 600 Billion
Naval Forces - Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer 100 - 100 Billion
Naval Forces - Visby class corvette 100 - 50 Billion
Naval Forces - Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier 12 - 36 Billion
Naval Forces - Negotiator Class Cruiser 12 - 20 Billion
Naval Forces - Montana Class Battle Ships 1 - 1 Billion
Naval Forces - RADAR/SONAR/LADAR Detection Ships 13 - 6 Billion
Naval Forces - Tenerife SSBN 11 - 22 Billion
Naval Forces - Cadiz SSN's 10 - 20 Billion
Naval Forces - Fire Support Ships 10 - 5 Billion
Naval Forces - Large Invasionary Transports 105 - 105 Billion
Naval Forces - Wasp class amphibious assault ship 40 - 40 Billion
Naval Forces - SDC-4 Overlord Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught 4 - 1.2 Trillion
Naval Forces - Tanker Class Missile Carrier 5 - 1 Trillion
Naval Forces - Supply/Logistical Ships 300 - 100 Billion

TOTAL - 3.340 Trillion

Voltonic Fleet
Naval Forces - Visari Class Destroyer 600 - 600 Billion
Naval Forces - Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer 100 - 100 Billion
Naval Forces - Visby class corvette 100 - 50 B
Naval Forces - Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier 12 - 40 B
Naval Forces - Negotiator Class Cruiser 12 - 20 B
Naval Forces - Montana Class Battle Ships 1 - 1 B
Naval Forces - RADAR/SONAR/LADAR Detection Ships 13 - 6 B
Naval Forces - Tenerife SSBN 11 - 22 B
Naval Forces - Cadiz SSN's 10 - 20 B
Naval Forces - Fire Support Ships 10 - 5 B
Naval Forces - Large Invasionary Transports 105 - 105 B
Naval Forces - Wasp class amphibious assault ship 40 - 40 B
Naval Forces - SDC-4 Overlord Class Trimaran SuperDreadnaught 4 - 1.2 Trillion
Naval Forces - Tanker Class Missile Carrier 5 - 1 Trillion
Naval Forces - Supply/Logistical Ships 300 - 100 B

TOTAL - 3.34 Trillion

Archangel Fleet
Naval Forces - Visari Class Destroyer 400 - 400 B
Naval Forces - Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer 50 - 50 B
Naval Forces - Visby class corvette 40 - 20 B
Naval Forces - Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier 6 - 24 B
Naval Forces - Negotiator Class Cruiser 12 - 12 B
Naval Forces - Montana Class Battle Ships 3 - 3 B
Naval Forces - RADAR/SONAR/LADAR Detection Ships 13 - 6 B
Naval Forces - Tenerife SSBN 11 - 22 B
Naval Forces - Cadiz SSN's 10 - 20 B
Naval Forces - Fire Support Ships 10 - 5 B
Naval Forces - Large Invasionary Transports 105 - 105 B
Naval Forces - Wasp class amphibious assault ship 40 - 40 B
Naval Forces - SDC-4 Overlord Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught 1 - 300 B
Naval Forces - Tanker Class Missile Carrier 5 - 1 Trillion
Naval Forces - Supply/Logistical Ships 300 - 150 B

TOTAL - 2.157 Trillion

Grand Total - 10.597 Trillion. My annual budget is over 37 Trillion. Over ten or fifteen years [370 Trillion]? Easily afforded. Yes supply costs... maybe another trillion? Again, we aren't even close to touching my max. I still have the vast majority of my budget to spend on other parts of the military.

Another note. The first fleet [fleet in opening post] does not exist. It broke up to form the other fleets.

Wow, the combined forces of the entire planet earth couldn't stop that deployment!!! and I thought the American navy was huge, they can't even touch that; even if they combined their entire fleet they would still be smaller than the smallest of the above fleets.

Also considering that for every seaman deployed out there, there is a ratio of about 7 support personnel on land per seaman and about 13 support personnel per infantry soldier.... not to mention the size of the naval port to even supply such a fleet!!! Astounding!

A few facts.

1. My only naval port has a population three times the size of the United States [900 Million], and covers an area the size of New York State.

2. My nation has a population twenty times the size of the United States.

3. The United States of America has a GDP of 13 Trillion. The Imperial Koalition of Kroando has a GDP of 164 Trillion.

Kro, you can respond in the thread you know... I posted my response yesterday...

I wanted to get this cleared up before I continued... I suppose we are done here then?

I wanted to get this cleared up before I continued... I suppose we are done here then?

Yes. And while I was waiting, I thought of a better way to go about this guerilla thing. This warfare is to asymetric for attacking convoys. Oh, and Gateway should be fun, mix of "conventional" and guerilla tactics, depending how many troops are at the battle.

Hmm, in case you havent noticed I may be losing a piece of my country here. Briefly before this war started up, there was a small scale civil war in Logan and Ky, which resulted in a group called the Rising Tide being defeated by my government. They did, however, manage to occupy a remote northern area of my country. They then joined the Kiravian commonwealth. Kirav now recognizes them as sovereign and is sending an envoy to help them set up their "country". I cant really do anything since all my military forces are focused on your invasion. Just thought you should know.

Ah don't worry... I'll take it when I'm done with you.

So whats going on with the LION Fleet attempting to break through to Gateway? We had quite a few of them trying to jump in... they all seem to have dissapeared.

Don't know, Binar was supposed to be RPing all of them under one flag in order to make it simple and coherant, but he hasn't yet. Don't know why he hasn't, he's been on a few times.

Hmmm... Well, the rest of the war is still going on, it's really up to you if you continue trying to help Vantanas. All I know is that Gateway has fallen, and Archangel isn't looking to hot...

I'll mention it, see if things can be sorted out to *hopefully* continue this.

Well, I could always start attacking LION Shipping if you need some motivation to come back...

Nah, that won't be necessary...

Couple questions though:

Your fleet that is attacking Archangel, where is it located (ie north, south, east, west) of Vant's landmass, considering he's the penninsula?

Second, is this the fleet thats at Archangel

NAVY

Naval Forces - Visari Class Destroyer 400
Naval Forces - Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer 50
Naval Forces - Visby class corvette 40
Naval Forces - Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier 6
Naval Forces - Negotiator Class Cruiser 12
Naval Forces - Montana Class Battle Ships 3
Naval Forces - RADAR/SONAR/LADAR Detection Ships 13
Naval Forces - Tenerife SSBN 11
Naval Forces - Cadiz SSN's 10
Naval Forces - Fire Support Ships 10
Naval Forces - Large Invasionary Transports 105
Naval Forces - Wasp class amphibious assault ship 40
Naval Forces - SDC-4 Overlord Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught 1
Naval Forces - Tanker Class Missile Carrier5
Naval Forces - Supply/Logistical Ships 300



And this the fleet thats behind the LION forces?

Voltonic Fleet Strength
Naval Forces - Visari Class Destroyer 1,100
Naval Forces - Arleigh Burke Class Destroyer 200
Naval Forces - Visby class corvette 120
Naval Forces - Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier 20
~1,000 Halcon Stealth Fighters
Naval Forces - Negotiator Class Cruiser 155
Naval Forces - Montana Class Battle Ships 2
Naval Forces - RADAR/SONAR/LADAR Detection Ships 13
Naval Forces - Tenerife SSBN 43
Naval Forces - Cadiz SSN's 12
Naval Forces - Fire Support Ships 220
Naval Forces - SDC-4 Overlord Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught 7
Naval Forces - Tanker Class Missile Carrier 19
Naval Forces - Supply/Logistical Ships 300


Just wanting to make sure I've got things clear.

The Fleet at Archangel is West of the island. And yes, the fleet breakdowns are correct, though a few ships from the Archangel fleet have been sunk.

Sorry but I just find the forces portrayed as completely unrealistic as presented. Without going into details, 1000 aircraft of the same type in the aircraft carriers? What about supply aircraft, ecm aircraft, AWACs, bomber types, ground support, ASW aircraft, anti-ship aircraft, etc? Are you insinuating that all these aircraft are interceptor types for air to air? If yes, then you are lacking other aircrafts to do other tasks and your airforce would be destroyed within a few short battles with a fraction of the numbers that you have. If no, then it means that they are multi-purpose and it also means that you must definitely be wary of how many sorties that your fleet can sustain at any one time. You can not have them all launched at the same time for obvious reasons. If your aircraft are multi-purpose then they must have excellent intelligence operatives to know when and where to strike otherwise an aircraft which is specialized in air to air would blow away your generalist aircraft on a random meeting or at any time if their forces are better equipped in intelligence operations than you.

This is just a small comment on one issue, the comment could be longer and I could add other issues. It is easy to say that you have "x" force and pretend to use it but you are not considering the strategic or political realities behind deployments of such numbers.

When I commented on the lack of realism of having such a large fleet, I was told that the nation had the right logistics to back it up. Fair enough, you can even roleplay that you have a hidden financial backer through dummy corporations and the like to even have 200 times more than what you are currently deploying, of course doing so would invite an espionage roleplay to have spies trying to find and stop such backings, etc. My point though, is that apparently this same nation has a lack of resources to sustain this force which means that operationally your force will not survive a week before being completely shut down through a lack of resources and all your enemy has to do is to cut your supply routes and your huge fleets become sitting ducks.... One ship could take out 20 of yours in this situation.

Nice to quote numbers for stats for tactical combat or even operational maneuvers but you don't seem to be able to realistically sustain this force because you are not presenting any strategic, political or logistical stats to back up this huge force. Not that I want to bash any side or the other, I just want to comment on what seems to me to be a lack of realism?!

Well yeah, but that'd be too hard to rp. Relax, this stuff is never gonna be 100% realistic...

Sorry but I just find the forces portrayed as completely unrealistic as presented. Without going into details, 1000 aircraft of the same type in the aircraft carriers? What about supply aircraft, ecm aircraft, AWACs, bomber types, ground support, ASW aircraft, anti-ship aircraft, etc? Are you insinuating that all these aircraft are interceptor types for air to air? If yes, then you are lacking other aircrafts to do other tasks and your airforce would be destroyed within a few short battles with a fraction of the numbers that you have. If no, then it means that they are multi-purpose and it also means that you must definitely be wary of how many sorties that your fleet can sustain at any one time. You can not have them all launched at the same time for obvious reasons. If your aircraft are multi-purpose then they must have excellent intelligence operatives to know when and where to strike otherwise an aircraft which is specialized in air to air would blow away your generalist aircraft on a random meeting or at any time if their forces are better equipped in intelligence operations than you.
I assume you wrote that entire thing without looking up the aircraft, yes?

When I commented on the lack of realism of having such a large fleet, I was told that the nation had the right logistics to back it up. Fair enough, you can even roleplay that you have a hidden financial backer through dummy corporations and the like to even have 200 times more than what you are currently deploying, of course doing so would invite an espionage roleplay to have spies trying to find and stop such backings, etc. My point though, is that apparently this same nation has a lack of resources to sustain this force which means that operationally your force will not survive a week before being completely shut down through a lack of resources and all your enemy has to do is to cut your supply routes and your huge fleets become sitting ducks.... One ship could take out 20 of yours in this situation.
I assume you did not read my entire fleet break down, which was explained already to Vontanas. My fleet comes to a grand total of around 10 Trillion. My annual military budget is 37 Trillion. The fleet was not built in one year, but ten, giving me 370 Trillion Dollars to build a 10 Trillion Dollar Fleet.

To assume that I do not have supply convoys constantly backing up my fleets is also, rather ridiculous. I have supply convoys moving non-stop to and from my country to resupply these fleets... you say that they could easily hit them and ruin me. Ok... well, no one has attempted to attack one of my convoys.

My point though, is that apparently this same nation has a lack of resources to sustain this force
You say I cannot sustain this force. Why is that? Where exactly did you read that I did not have enough resources to sustain my fleet? I devote over 2 Trillion Dollars to simply supplying and maintaining my fleet...

This is just a small comment on one issue, the comment could be longer and I could add other issues. It is easy to say that you have "x" force and pretend to use it but you are not considering the strategic or political realities behind deployments of such numbers.
Political realities. Nice word. Read up on my nation first, you will find that it is not the United States, where the Democrats yell when the Republicans do something. I have a massive backdrop to this war, and I am not going to explain myself just because you failed to read it.

Once you read my entire factbook, and the thread We Are Dying, come back, and we can have a proper discussion. As my factbook is rather long, I'll see you in a few days.

I just heard a rumor saying that you had almost no resources left which if true makes me wonder how you can sustain a war for more than a couple of weeks. You say you can then that's fine by me, just remember that a peacetime logistic cost and a wartime logistic cost is quite different. The rumor is unverified and you just countered it with the fact that you are not lacking resources, cool! I stand corrected, my comment was based upon the "if the rumor is true then" statement.

No I did not read about your aircraft specifics, I've only read air war strategies and basic air force doctrine as to why people get certain aircraft and not others. My comments were looking at two possibilities, either your aircrafts are specialized to do one task only or they are generalists able to perform multiple tasks depending upon the configurations loaded at that moment. Either way you do it has some pros and some cons. The latest fleet composition did not indicate if you had addressed those specific issues, not that it matters because most seem not to care and go under the same logic of higher numbers win irrelevant of strategies used. It seems Clausewitzian thought is driving the logic behind the battles and I suggest that Hart should be read as well to be more rounded and to realize that sometimes much smaller forces when used well will outperform superior forces. Also you seem to be fighting the naval battles using Corbett's thinking of one huge fleet against another huge fleet, and I suggest that perhaps Mahan should also be read to understand that the navy's primary use is to guarantee trade or to prevent the enemy in being able to engage in trade.

Now Corbett and Clausewitz are nice aspects to follow and they seem to prefer the spectacular battles, but there should be some subtleties as well and allow Mahan and Hart to play their part too. Historically people who relied too much on power plays lost out in long term issues even if they won many battles along the way. A small nation of 5 million can win against a huge nation of 50 billion and it is not through "boxing" but through "aikido". Look at Alexander's victories against the huge Persian empire (small versus huge). Had Alexander entered the "boxing ring" and fight using those rules he would have lost, instead he used his intelligence against an enemy who was overconfident in its numbers. Alexander had been a philosopher before taking charge of his armies, who taught him to use his brains? To think outside of common assumptions?

It would be nice if some of this stuff could be roleplayed, but it seems that stats over-rule any sense of interesting storytelling!?! But that is just my observation.

You're thinking here is very accurate in the area of modern and pre-modern naval combat, and should my enemies every employ proper tactics, such as those you described, I would in turn counter them with similar tactics.

However you must look at things from my perspective. I have a larger and more powerful fleet than that of my enemies. My enemies attempt to defeat me in 1 on 1, massive naval battles... in which I have a clear advantage. Why then would I attempt to engage in any other sort of naval warfare? Should I be fighting a larger opponent, I would clearly engage in a more logistics centered method.

good point

My post got eaten. This computer really makes me angry sometimes. I'll probably post later.

Kroando, you can't just hack another satellite like that. It's called godmodding, and I have a feeling you chose Google because it's not a nation, but it's still godmodding.

Why is satellite hacking not allowed? It is perfectly possible with modern technology - and I picked Google because I don't know which nations have satellites in the area. Please, look up the definition of God Modding in one of the stickies. Saying computer hacking is god modding is like saying that firing missiles is hacking. Besides, if Orzio could pin point which satellites were mine, he would be using computers to analyze my transmissions... which is damn close to hacking. I am simply taking it one step further.

If thats too much for you, I'll just say I had another innactive satellite in the area, thus untracable, and I will now activate it and achieve the same result.

Actually, the method of figuring out which sats were yours Kroando was to see which sats would be flying over said area or were in a geosync orbit and blind them. Basically, I blinded any sats in the area, no matter who's they were (save for myself, of course). The lasers are on every major/large warship, meaning I had a couple hundred. As for an inactive one, I'll think about it more, whether it would've been targeted at all or not.

Even if you had hacked another nation's sat (which my opinion is that it could be done) it would take some time to accomplish, not to mention reposition it and then analyze the pictures. Sat networks wouldn't be easy to get into, I would imagine. Your fleet is a little bit behind me, but by the time it got the pics it would be nearly upon the mines, if not already hit them, much less find the exact location of the southern fleet.

Basically, I feel that your attack is a little premature, though I'm fine with it being used later.

Oh, and is it being launched at the main fleet only, the southern only, or both?

Even if you had hacked another nation's sat (which my opinion is that it could be done) it would take some time to accomplish, not to mention reposition it and then analyze the pictures. Sat networks wouldn't be easy to get into, I would imagine. Your fleet is a little bit behind me, but by the time it got the pics it would be nearly upon the mines, if not already hit them, much less find the exact location of the southern fleet.
Hmmm... well I did not know you were blinding all satellites, just a risky move. [I doubt Doomingsland, Questers, AMF and such like having their satellites blinded.] However in order to fire the ballistic missiles the satellites are not needed, as they can fire based off of your active radar. [Not all too accurate, but there are alot of MIRVs]

Sat networks wouldn't be easy to get into, I would imagine.
Thats why I picked Google. I was looking for a relatively low-security company, not a foriegn military satellite.

Oh, and is it being launched at the main fleet only, the southern only, or both?
Main Fleet Only.

I think that a fair way to solve this would be to save the imagery for later. So I don't know that you're laying mines, or about the southern fleet (yet). However I have still deployed scout destroyers in every direction roughly 30 miles out as a precautionary measure to having lost my satellites, and fired the missiles based on your Active RADAR Pings.

Sound ok?

Why is satellite hacking not allowed? It is perfectly possible with modern technology - and I picked Google because I don't know which nations have satellites in the area. Please, look up the definition of God Modding in one of the stickies. Saying computer hacking is god modding is like saying that firing missiles is hacking. Besides, if Orzio could pin point which satellites were mine, he would be using computers to analyze my transmissions... which is damn close to hacking. I am simply taking it one step further.

If thats too much for you, I'll just say I had another innactive satellite in the area, thus untracable, and I will now activate it and achieve the same result.

Hacking them in and of itself is not godmodding, but doing it with out letting the owner defend his network in whatever way possible is.

I'd suggest that blinding all satellites would bring new adversaries into the conflict. Remember how the US got involved in WW1. The Germans sank a neutral commercial liner which was flying an American flag. Some belligerent nation would take great offense in having its satellites blinded... Just a possibility to be aware of.

I think that a fair way to solve this would be to save the imagery for later. So I don't know that you're laying mines, or about the southern fleet (yet). However I have still deployed scout destroyers in every direction roughly 30 miles out as a precautionary measure to having lost my satellites, and fired the missiles based on your Active RADAR Pings.

Sound ok?


That sounds like a good compromise I can live with.

As for other people's sats, yeah its risky but there's no permenant damage. Basically its just blowing the circuit breaker on the sat, all that needs to be done is flipping the switch or a reboot. Doesn't seem like a good pretext to go to war, IMO. But thats just me. :p

I'd suggest that blinding all satellites would bring new adversaries into the conflict. Remember how the US got involved in WW1. The Germans sank a neutral commercial liner which was flying an American flag. Some belligerent nation would take great offense in having its satellites blinded... Just a possibility to be aware of.


True, but there are worse things to get pissed off enough to go to war over instead of temporarily taking away the picture ability of a sat. If someone were to get pissed about it, then they can talk to me about it. Besides, with as many nations as there are in NS, especially the powerhouses, they have a huge supply of sats either already in orbit or ready to go if needed.

Hacking them in and of itself is not godmodding, but doing it with out letting the owner defend his network in whatever way possible is.
Orzio blinded other nation's satellites without letting them know. Tell me what the difference between a temporary hack and a temporary blinding is.

SK: America was an oil barrel waiting to be lit. There were lots of "warhawks", and even the public opinion before hand was "neutral, but supporting the UK". Most nations probably haven't even heard of this war, as there are many, many wars going on in the world at any given time, and I could see this being dismissed as a minor tech problem more then a laser shooting, as they'd be blinded.

Kro: I'm not saying his attack wasn't a godmod, I'm just saying something. Anyways, busy day today, tomorrow or thursday definitely. It's finals week here, so I've got work like crazy, along with studying. So, it'll be disjointed for a while.

Vontanas what are you doing with the whole rising tide/sending in paratroopers to my country thing, if anything.

I apollogize for my drop off.I didn't have much time and motivation for the last few weeks. I just felt tired, and had a lot of crap going on in my life.

I apollogize for my drop off.I didn't have much time and motivation for the last few weeks. I just felt tired, and had a lot of crap going on in my life.

It's okay, Orzio picked up where you left off, so we should be fine.

Should Kroando accept your surrender, what will the LION coalition do? It seems to me there only reason for being in this war was to protect you, so they will likely drop out too. That leaves me in a terrible situation, as I'd be standing alone against Kroando. I suppose I could try a plea to LION to send aid to crush the severely weakened Kroandon fleet stationed off of my country, which would surely force his troops on the ground to surrender.

Should Kroando accept your surrender, what will the LION coalition do? It seems to me there only reason for being in this war was to protect you, so they will likely drop out too. That leaves me in a terrible situation, as I'd be standing alone against Kroando. I suppose I could try a plea to LION to send aid to crush the severely weakened Kroandon fleet stationed off of my country, which would surely force his troops on the ground to surrender.

LION would back off and rebuild itself from the losses it took. As for you, if you can get some ships to the Order of America's colony in the Sawney Islands to pick up the Gateway soldiers, you'd have a nice supply of reinforcements on hand. And I'm sure I can invest some money in your government to help with the war effort.

LION would back off and rebuild itself from the losses it took. As for you, if you can get some ships to the Order of America's colony in the Sawney Islands to pick up the Gateway soldiers, you'd have a nice supply of reinforcements on hand. And I'm sure I can invest some money in your government to help with the war effort.


Whats this talk of surrender? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
(cookie for the refference)

Should Kroando accept your surrender, what will the LION coalition do? It seems to me there only reason for being in this war was to protect you, so they will likely drop out too. That leaves me in a terrible situation, as I'd be standing alone against Kroando. I suppose I could try a plea to LION to send aid to crush the severely weakened Kroandon fleet stationed off of my country, which would surely force his troops on the ground to surrender.
If LION sent it's fleet to help you... don't you think I'd send my other fleets to... stop them?

Vontanas- money would help somewhat, but with Kroando's fleet right off of my shoreline theres not really much I can do except produce my own weapons, and I'd still need to get the raw materials transported in by land.

Kroando-I suppose you would... but it seems to me that there would be a point by which the cost of the invasion of my country was more than what would be gained by whatever resources.

Kroando-I suppose you would... but it seems to me that there would be a point by which the cost of the invasion of my country was more than what would be gained by whatever resources.
By that logic, LION would have already quit. They have no reason at all to help you, and by doing so, will probably be facing domestic opposition to the war. I on the other hand, have much to gain. Economically speaking, LION, by helping you, is just beating up it's own military and economy, while I am fueling mine.

Hey Kroando, where are we on the naval battle? Do you want to just end it now, or duke it out a little more and agreeing that the ceasefire message is on the way?