NationStates Jolt Archive

Link to original thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13269524
Lets not continue clutter up the thread with more OOC stuff than IC.

I don't have any problems with BG RPing a Soviet puppet government for radical Portuguese in India. Nor for him reminding us about the soviet presence in Portugal. It keeps us down to earth and reminds us that we cannot do anything.

Got to go to chapel. Edit some more stuff in later.

What was your concern Spyr? I have German troops in Portugal assisting them against an aggressor and protecting their homes and cities from further destruction. Furthermore, an unprecedented amount of aid is pouring into Portugal that has not been seen since Europe was rebuilt after world war two. Moreover, the new constitution is not draconian and is enacting reasonable changes that will ensure a lasting peace for Portugal. As a constitutional monarchy the government established will provide for peaceful relations with their neighbours while allowing them freedom they wouldn't have under a Holy League state.

What specifically did I say that you felt treated the Portuguese as "Mindless Tools"?

EDIT: Check out the cia factbook (https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/po.html#People).

Portugal's Religions: Roman Catholic 84.5%, other Christian 2.2%, other 0.3%, unknown 9%, none 3.9% (2001 census)

Almost 85% of the population is listed as Roman Catholic which is why a theocratic form of government could work for Portugal.

Whatever aid might be pouring in to Portugal, this isnt a blank slate on which an occupying force can just paint a pretty picture. Up until invasion by the Spanish, Portugal had a perfectly functional government and civil society, and a few months of League parades and aid followed by a few more of German parades and aid aren't going to change the fact that the people there have a solid sense of national identity.
Even in the event that they've viewed their latest experience with monarchies as positive, why a German monarch? They can credit Britain's Godfrey with mustering to avert invasion and then sheltering their exiled government on the free Azores while fighting the League to the bargaining table. They can credit Wilhelm with... with eating sausages while his Quinntonian allies said 'we really can't get involved', only to pop the purse strings after the Spaniards agreed to withdraw? Hell, Portugal even has its own domestic claimants to the throne who, having claims opposed to that of the Spanish Bourbons, can at least argue that they're from the country they're being assigned to lead.

A constitutional monarchy is a significant political change... I could perhaps understand how it might have appeal if the country was in ruins and grasping desperately for stability. But it isnt. Its a country that just underwent a quick invasion by a neighbouring power, who tried to bribe the population into accepting a foreign monarch as their leader.
If that worked in Portugal, the Germans wouldnt be there... Juan Carlos would be Prince of Lisbon and children would be throwing garlands for him in the streets. But it didn't, and there's no reason for a similar effort to work now that the crisis is passed.

Where's the link to the original thread where Spain invaded Portugal?

Anyway I suppose its a matter of perspective. If someone lived in a bad situation, like the Portuguese were, then a significant chance would be appreciated but if you lived a cushy North American live like us Canucks then a change to a constitutional monarchy probably would not be appreciated.

Why a German monarchy? Well first of all its not a monarch but a constitutional monarch and I would like to stress that constitutional part in case you missed it the first time. In either event it should be a German monarch because we saved their sorry ungrateful asses and want to have some small measure of control over their situation so they don't go back to fighting their neighbours and getting their houses blown up again. Moreover its a political situation which appeases France and the Spanish Bourbons because Wilhelm is related to the Spanish Bourbons which allows the Bourbons to claim a propaganda victory. I asked NG to post about this but he hasn't yet.

Portugal is not just a country thats undergone a quick invasion its also a country that had to look forward to centuries of harsh League rule with no respite and in an immediate situation of acute poverty with banding of migrating people who may or may not return to houses or jobs that even exist. Then what happens? Germans arrive, act quickly to bring peace and stability, drive out their enemies, and spend billions of their own dollars to rebuild their wreck of a country. They install a system which will provide lasting peace for their country and also give them freedom that would unheard of in a totalitarian regime.

The invasion appears here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=484776). The thread is long, but you dont need to go too deep to finish with Portugal... the invasion itself was a lightning strike which took the country in all of two days, save for the Azores, after which the Spanish set up provinical sham-democracies and began economic development to prepare Portugal for Iberian unity and the approaching war with Britain.

Yeah, uhm, as things stand, the Soviet-sponsored and thus far largely insignificant and ineffective Portuguese government in exile is going to suddenly look a lot more attractive to a whole load of Portuguese people, and the Igovians are going to appear prophetic at worst.

What do you think was so terrible about the Portuguese situation, Fleur? It reads as if you think that quality of life in Portugal was 3rd world!

"If someone lived in a bad situation, like the Portuguese were, then a significant chance would be appreciated but if you lived a cushy North American live like us Canucks then a change to a constitutional monarchy probably would not be appreciated."

Huh? Portugal's a modern, developed nation (with its fair share of traditional rural communities and what not, of course), with higher per-capita GDP than, say... Soviet India, for a start! In living memory for millions there its people had to stick their necks out to get the democracy and social and economic liberty they had before the quite recent Spanish invasion, and there's hardly a hint of monarchist yearning in modern Portuguese mainstream politics. Where's the Royalist Party? If it existed, it'd be some way behind the social democrats, communists, socialists, and ecologists.

Heck, so far as I'm concerned you can do this if you like, but it's never going to stick, that's all.

Needless to say, Gadar! is having a field day with Christo-capitalist imperialism, and Britain's anti-war camp probably just broke into tears.

Lets remember what absolute monarchy is like. Its not about free pie and icecream. Remember that just prior to or during the Spanish invasion France had used weapons of destruction on Gibraltor, which Walmington claimed killed over twenty eight thousand civilians and four thousand soldiers. NG claimed the function of Gibraltor was to ensure a speedy surrendor of Portugal. What kind of affect would that have on the civilian population? The invading regime is willing to kill civilians at the blink of a eye and ignore international conventions just as easily. A Holy League state is not a warm and fuzzy teddy bear but is a government capable of mass murder. Spain was no exception as during the war cities like Estremoz with a population of 15673were bombed into ruins to the point of "smoldering with long black pillars of smoke rising from within it". On the second day of fighting, Spain targetted Lisbon with tank and aircraft and bombed the heck out of it to pacify the population. While I may have overstated the extent of the physical damages Spain did attack and destroy areas with a high concentration of civilians.

Regardless of the physical damages, the affects of living under an absolute monarchy should be considered. Let me list a little bit about the policies enacted under Restorastist France.

As all these momentous events were happening left and right, so to speak, His Most Christian Majesty Louis-Auguste was not idle. Fearing that the reforms would waken the autocracy he believed necessary for the salvation of France, the King formulated entities which could enable heavy repression if needed. As the Estates General was created the monarchy also organized two ministries that would be beyond any Estates legislation: on the one hand creating the Ministry of the Interior and on the other hand completely absorbing the Ministry of War into the Royal Court. They both were classified in the official language as Bureaux Noirs, Black Offices, subject to no oversight at all and responsible only and directly to the King.

The Ministry of the Interior was given authority over all judicial and police forces in France, normal and secret (sic. la Marechaussee) as well as general oversight of all domestic affairs commercial, religious, and private in the kingdom. It was staffed with the most reactionary and, well, medieval bureaucrats of the aristocracy the King could find. Just in case there were any mixed signals, Louis-Auguste made his eldest brother le Comte d’Artois the new Minister of the Interior. Artois of course was noted for his penchant for repression and intimidation. The Bastille fell under its direct authority, and consequently His Most Christian Majesty was able to continue his absolute control over crime and punishment in France. ‘Dangerous Politicals’ went on being arrested, dragged off in the night, even as the Estates General sat down to debate. There were several particularly vicious raids on April 1st, where la Marechaussee detained, arrested, and imprisoned the staff on an entire primary school on the grounds they were teaching the children of convicted communists and anti-war activists algebra. One protesting teacher, a howling ‘soccer mom’ type, was beaten with clubs by the police to ‘teach her a lesson.’ No doubt the issues arising in chambers would cause some turbulence. Perhaps the Union of the French People would simply force recognition of ‘the good King’s duty’ by beating up the opposition.

The post of Minister of War, vacant since le Duc de Broglie committed suicide, was given to another Prince du Sang, the King’s third youngest brother le Duc de Normandie, and a war-hero from the African Theatre. Still in absolute control of the military, Versailles stacked the military command over and over again with loyal followers of the royal regime. Merit would get you far, but only being a member of the Court would get you to the top. Under the new de Normandie Ministry the high command was further screened to make sure only the most loyal and reactionary members of the aristocracy ever got in a position of major military power. A massive cult of Louis-Auguste swiftly descended on the armed forces, its intention to show the soldiers that their leader was in fact really “General Bourbon”, a father figure who was leading the French nation past one last bitter war on the way to boundless future prosperity. Material given to the armed forces praised the hearty King for his lifestyle and simple tastes, his accessibility to the common people, his kindness and his wisdom. A popular military short film portrayed Louis-Auguste as “the father of his people, over whose needs he keeps an earnest and compassionate watch.” The King was said to devote “special care and attention to the welfare and moral development of ‘the people’”, frequently joining with the common troops to “partake of their milk and wheaten bread.” To whit: “Thousands of invisible threads center in the King’s heart,” wrote one royal biographer; “and these threads stretch from the tenements of the poor to the palaces of the rich…and that is the reason why the French people always acclaims its King with such fervent enthusiasm, whether in Paris, Versailles, or on his way through the towns and country.

Is this the sort of life that people would look forward to? Terror squads, hitmen and secret police? Lets compare this to what Germany has done for Portugal.

First, Germany removed the invading army and then rebuilt Portugal and erased all the damages from the war. Third, Germany provided a form of government acceptable to their neighbours while allowing the Portugeuse freedom unheard of in a regime that is characterized by repression. In case there is any more confusion I will be posting a second time on Germany's theocractic economy and how life is like for the average person. But suffice it to say that Germans do not live under constant of the Kaiser. In case you did not fully appreciate the dialogue between the Kaiser and Shultz I will make it clearer. The Kaiser is powerless, impotent, ceremonial figure with no real powers in Germany.

Anyway, I think Spyr's comment that I treated Portugal like the land of "Mindless Tools" is an exaggeration to say the least. I never RPed hundreds of thousands of people taking to the streets in jubiliation that the Kaiser is their new constitutional monarch. Most people would probably be disappointed by the turn of events. But would they deal with it? Yeah probably.

The best argument you can come up with is 'hurr, look at the policies in this other country next to Spain, how terrible!'

I'm not a fan of the Spanish monarchy, but terror squads there were not... hardline capitalism under an autocrat, bolstered by nationalist sentiment, is the rule in Spain.

Its telling that, even when he had taken full military control over Portugal, the Spanish king didn't immediately declare himself Portugese monarch, but rather acknowledged political reality.

France is an argument against feudalism for the same reason the Soviet Union is an argument against Communism... a straw man, wonderful for propaganda purposes, but Spain's monarchy doesnt work that way, Britain's doesnt, Germany's obviously doesnt, hell even Papan's most joyous wet dreams in the Low Countries wont put him on the same footing as Louis Auguste. No one outside of France would want to live there, but to live in Spain all you'd need to want tis to have a bigger chance at being rich in exchange for democratic participation in government.

This essentially sums up the state of things after Portugese surrender:
Over seven thousand Portuguese soldiers and civilians, but mostly soldiers, had died during operations throughout the entire country, and over seven hundred Spanish soldiers had also lost their life. These, however, were soldiers that Spain could ill afford to replace - replace them with conscripts.

Plans were already being concocted to give Portugal a new future. She would be cut into her original provences, keeping the same administrative organisation for simplicity, and she would be governed by a communal president voted in only by the 'Portuguese Free States'. The Portuguese Free States were like the Autonomous Communities of 'older Spain' [the '91-'06 Democracy], only more words than actual freedom. The surviving Portuguese soldiers would be formed into a Portuguese Territorial Division, which Madrid had plans to expand into a Poruguese Territorial Army of some four infantry divisions and an armour division by the end of four to five months. For this she planned a massive propaganda campaign, sowing what Hitler had done in Austria - something of huge proportions which would attempt to explain the sudden annexation of the country as a unity between brothers, and nothing more than a united Iberian Empire. Indeed, just for show there were already ideas to have Portuguese citizens crown Phillip as their king. The Gibraltar, and her lack of people, would give Phillip the title of Duke of Gibraltar and he declared it as a subregion of Andalucia.

Where the link to Spain's factbook/ history?

I think your making the mistake of assuming that every single Portuguese knows intimately all the ins and outs of the Spanish and French system of governments. Generally, people are stupid plain and simple. In America, the average person thinks there are two billion Americans and can't place their own country on a map (http://www.watchingamerica.com/daralhayat000015.shtml). Assuming the average Portugeuse is twice as smart as the average American it still should not be taken for granted that they know the limits to the powers of monarchy in Spain.

However, they could have heard the far more interesting and scary rumours about the going ons in France. In their minds the actions of France and Spain may have become linked. Afterall, who supported France in their nerve gas attack on Gibraltor? The Spanish. Who annexed Gibraltor and become the new Duke? The Spanish King. Perhaps all they know is that there is this alliance of monarchs who just sprayed nerve gas killing a bunch of civilians and that this same alliance is now invading them. Not only that but some of their friends and family members in Lisbon and Estremoz had their houses bombed into rubble. This is a scary scary situation and although the war may have been carried out relatively bloodless people would be frightened.

When the war was over the invading army surprisingly did not do anything too scary but who knows how long that will last? Perhaps another nerve gas attack is only another day away. The massive propagandizing campaign of Spain may have convinced the Portuguese people but may have done little to minimize the fear of being under a new government. Sure the fear did may dissipated after years and years of being under a moderate monarchy but they did not have years.

Then what happens? Another foreign army displaces all the invading army and repairs out of their own pockets all the damage that was done in the war. After several weeks of occupation a new constitution is announced which leaves things pretty much the same but unlike Spain is not under a government which is associated in the minds of the people with nerve gas and civilian casualties. Furthermore, the arrival of the German troops is accompanied with boatloads of missionaries who do nothing but good to the Portugeuse people.

Am I slightly exaggerating the situation? Absolutely. But I can't believe that millions upon millions of Portugeuse will suddenly rise up and drive out the people who saved them. Is that what you wanted me to RP? They never drove out the Spanish why would they drive out the Germans? The Portuguese have their freedom back, they have their nation back, they have their economy functioning again. Note that Germany did not annex Portugal rather they both share the same head of state.

I could have just annexed Portugal and made it a province of Germany and if you'd prefer I could do that and guess what? You couldn't do a damn thing about it. Sure I'd have to double or maybe triple the numbers of troops there cuz they would probably be pissed but guess what? First of all it wouldn't be god modding and secondly, you couldn't do a thing about it. Unlike France, Germany is not involved in a costly overseas war and doesn't have to make political concessions. Lets remember why Spain departed Portugal. It wasn't because of millions of fanatical Igovian supporters. It was because France was losing a costly war and wanted NATO support. Germany is not in that same position and likely never will be. Heck if I wanted I could make Portugal Shultz's own personal shitting ground and you still couldn't do anything about it. Now make an IC post and stop wasting my time with all these OOC comments.

If what you want is roleplay where you have absolute authority over everything you do, and those who don't like it can sod off, then you can have it... it's called mainstream NationStates, actually, and its right through that door.

But that's not where you are, a fact I'm assuming is by choice rather than by accident. You're in A Modern World, where a certain level of consensus must be achieved to move forward in a shared world, and where NPC states are more than just population adders for whoever has the most troops in-country. So sit yourself back down, because this damn well needs some proper discussion.

You've reduced Portugal to a simple 'insert money, get out obedience' equation which leaves a complex civilization of millions, with centuries of history, a highly developed political culture, and an obvious sense of national identity to little more than puppets for whoever has the fattest purse.

There seems to be some strange impression that the Germans are the celebrated liberators here, which they arent... they're the guys who showed up after the Spanish came and went, the USQ said 'cant be bothered', the Brits spilled their blood, and the Indians declared bloody vengeance.
Ultimately, what pushed the Spanish out of Portugal was the British, who fought the League to the table with the country's independence as a rallying cry. For the more educated Portugese, it is clear that it WAS, in fact, due to 'millions of fanatical Igovian supporters' that the League was afraid enough to give anything up in the bargain.
Will the League be back? A legitimate fear, certainly. Will the Germans protect Portugal? They didnt utter a peep the first time around, and their brethren in Washington kept playing the neutrality card while VX fell over Africa and Gibraltar was flooded with incendiaries. Not the folks I'd lay my bets on... I'd want Tommy in the streets, he's proven his guts and (unlike the pickelhaube preachers and those subcontinental Celts) hasnt gone around imposing his form of government on everyone he meets.

Will the people start producing Yugoslavian AKs and gunning down Prussians in the streets? No, and if Germany wants to go imposing its monarch there wont be many who'll die to stop it. But will they like the idea? Why would they? They've got their own institutions, their own democracy... their own heroes, both the dead and the living who kept the light of the Republic burning on the Azores. They dont need a German king, and unless they view the Germans in the same light you say they see the French, there's no reason they wont say "thanks for the help, friends, but no thanks to the replacement of our traditions with yours... lets just sign a mutual protection pact in London and you can keep chatting about that interesting fellow Luther if you like."

I think that I need to put my Quinntonian two cents in here as my name keeps being brought into this again and again.

Fluer, what are you doing? What are you trying to accomplish by yelling and stamping around and insulting people and throwing a tantrum? I just don’t understand.

Now, as for the situation in country, the USQ would actually be opposed to a constitutional monarch of any type being placed in Portugal for what I think are obvious reasons, these people have a tendency over the last 50 years of actually seizing control, and in the public perception of both USQ and Portugal, the very idea of a monarch being in charge might be repugnant, especially if this was imposed by a foreign nation.

In my own defence, I will point out that the Portugal invasion happened twice. The first time it got struck from the AMW record, and in that invasion I declared war on Spain and was moving ships and troops in to defend Portugal. The second one occurred when I was busy with school, but when everyone came to the table to talk peace measures it was ME, both in threads and in TGs that demanded immediate Portuguese independence. Harrumph. Ah, what does it matter? I did sit by when the bombs were falling in Africa.

I can see the Portugese being grateful to the Germans, I can even see them responding fairly well to the missionary work, though Portugal in RL is one of the most nominalist Roman Catholic nation on Earth, and a very secularised and liberal nation in general. A theocracy would be completely foreign to them and probably repugnant in a nation that had to fight within the last century to break free from overwhelming Roman interference in national politics, much like our Quiet Revolution in QB.

It is hard to tell how much differently the Portuguese would be from the ones in RL, it is very possible that there would be a small Royalist Party, as extreme as the Ignovians are, and seen as such.

I would propose that the Germans try not to impose anything in the form of government, but rather would resurrect their own, working government, I am sure that placing a Constitutional restriction on a few choice extremist political views would find major support from a people that were yes, were, recently traumatised by war but beyond that would only, I think, create and foster resentment.

One note on this conversation, this is a collaborative creative effort, we police each other by consensus, no one can unilaterally do anything unless it is agreed upon by the community at large.

WWJD
Amen.

Pardon me. I was growing testy at all the OOC remarks about my RPing ability. But did I insult anyone who disagreed with me? Perhaps I am a bad RPer and that is a definite possibility given my many screw ups in the past but I never threw a temper tantrum or insulted anyone. Spyr believed I was treating the Portugeuse as a land of mindless tools but in my opinion he was trying to unilaterally impose a set of conditions on a RP in which he was uninvolved in. Which I why I made the comments like he "can't do a thing about it". Ultimately he can "do a thing about it" and as a highly valued member of AMW his comments are always appreciated. But there is a difference, in my opinion, in collaborative RP and insulting people and implicitly telling them they are bad at RPing, which is how I initially perceived things. So in the future I hope that we can all treat each other with respect and engage in mature discussions. I am not just telling Spyr this, although I certainly hope he listens, but also to myself and I can understand how my comments could be perceived as rude.

Also Quinn, are you trying to change the RP after I have clearly stated and articulated what Germany plans to do in Portugal? What I have done I have done. This discussion is helpful for determining how the Portuguese react to what I have done but it is not your place or anyone else's for that matter to tell me specifically how and what Germany will do. I would be much more comfortable with you RPing Quinntopian officials talking to Shultz phoning him regularly, putting as much diplomatic pressure as possible on him to change his mind, and strongly advocating your position. If you did that I can tell you that Shultz would take that very seriously. But if you just make comments telling me what to do I'll just ignore it.

But anyway, after this whole controversy I do not see what things have changed much. No, the Portuguese won't rise up in revolt. Yes, they will disappointed and may as Spyr alludes to, stubbornly passively resist it and would much more prefer a mutual defense pact. This are all valid points and ones which I listen to. But lets let the RP procede a bit further and mature before stating how things will turn how. Could the Germanys go for a defense pact and renounce the council of bishops and monarchy? Absolutely. But I am tired of certain people's patronizing attitudes and the refusal to RP what I have done.

What I am hearing is that I RPed that the Portuguese as being too gunghow about the Germans. Maybe if I stated this was largely the standard bias and propaganda that goes along with all my posts this whole shindig could have been averted. But I have to question Spyr's repeated assertion that I RPed it as "'insert money, get out obedience' equation". The only things I can find to explain that is where I RPed the Portugeuse people as "eagerly" anticipating the news of the government. I did not say they would like it and indeed from the very first post I stated that the Portuguese "skeptical of the German religiosity and feared a repeat of the Holy League tyranny. Only with time would they be convinced of the German sincerity." I then went on to say that these people "were a small majority."

I am working on a constitution for Portugal that should more fully explain the situation. Unlike France, Wilhelm does not have powers to control and intimidate the population at his every whim. I believe that the government I have chosen appeals to everyone but the Soviets. It has a monarchy for France and a council of bishops for the Quinntopians....

....ran out of time... more to follow.... will edit the stuff in... don't respond yet...

I think, perhaps, much of the above debate may well be due to a misunderstanding of intent... my own comments, and I think Quinntonia's as well, were based on an assumption that the Germans would attempt to conduct their occupation and form a government in a manner that would not alienate the Portuguese populace. Most objections were framed in that context, outlining why it is thought Portugal would not support the course set by the Germans, out-of-character suggestions to allow roleplay to be modified in case you had thought Portuguese reaction to a German monarch would be eagerly positive.
The response above seems to cut the legs from under that assumption, explaining that you do not in fact think the Portuguese will support the German-installed administration. If that is the case, then I apologize for rendering criticism where it wasnt due, but that would leave me somewhat muddled as to German intent... particularly given mention of impending elections, would not the Portuguese electorate simply vote for candidates who would bring an end to the monarchy, leaving the Germans having expended a great deal of effort and lost goodwill for little gain?
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On the subject of Portuguese democracy, there seems a bit of a temporal disconnect... it has been mentioned that political parties within Portugal have been preparing for elections and selecting new leaders, who would not wish for the exiled government to return. However, the exiles are not a newly raised institution. They have been active throughout the Spanish occupation and its aftermath, and if there has been time between Spain's departure and the present for parties to start choosing candidates, certainly the exiles would have had a chance to be involved?
More generally, how much time does everyone think has passed since the Germans took control of the country from Spain?
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A query, for Gurg this time, on the nature of the government-in-exile on the Azores. Given the speed of the Spanish attack, and Mac's statements about the country's surrender, it seems unlikely that the entire Portuguese parliament escaped to the Azores. There was some debate on Portugal's fate and the actions of its government in Iron West's OOC thread and the off-site forum, and I rather like the approach you've taken: the Portuguese President is certainly a legitimate government figure, but without the Prime Minister beside him, it can be argued that he is less a true government leader and more a figurehead, particularly if (likely) he doesnt have the complete parliament with him. Just who/how many do you see as having escaped to join the President's exiled government?

Given League anti-communist tendencies and a significant number of socialists and communists in the pre-invasion parliament (which, as per RL, consisted of: Socialist Party 121, Social Democrats 75, CDU 14 (Communist 12, Green 2), People's Party 12, Left Bloc 8), one also wonders at the fate of the former elected officials who were unable to get away, given League anti-communist policies and German efforts to detain leftists during the occupation. The People's Party, unlike their leftist counterparts, seems like they might have been in a position to try and 'make the best of it' under the Spanish and now the Germans, while the Spanish might have groomed the more extreme out-of-power parties such as National Renewal for collaboration, leaving them to either flee with their sponsors or try to squeeze into the new structure.

Erm, finally on this subject, the Azores remain under British protection, do they not? How have things been run there during this time?
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A final question to ponder, I suppose. Mac, and Spain under his control, was very thorough in its planning... they knew what they were going to do with every captured Portuguese tank and boat before they'd even taken control. While I doubt they'd be looting as they left, in the time between takeover and departure what would likely have been moved out of Portugal, and would the Spanish be in any mood to return it after being forced to bow out.
Political prisoners are a related issue, both due to the above-mentioned leftist parliamentarians and the staff of the Strainist embassy in Lisbon, who made the error of volunteering to help defend the city. Would the Spanish have executed such prisoners? Moved them to more secure camps in Spain? (and if so, returned them across the border afterwards?) Left them to be freed by locals or the arriving Germans?

Good questions. I have the impression that the Germans are doing a pretty good job of rounding up anyone the Spanish didn't, anyway! Have they also arrested Communists and others in the former Parliament, if such people have survived the Spanish?

The Soviet-sponsored government in exile is largely given its impetus by the presumed loss of so much government, such as the PM. They're not openly and entirely opposed to the pre-invasion President, they're just hoping to gain something in government when he comes back, and to fill some likely voids or create some by being the only ones outside the presumably reduced government in the Azores who have been at least claiming and trying to be doing something governmental. If that makes any sense. (I'm in a rush!)