NationStates Jolt Archive

I have been checking some of the Modern, Post Modern and Future tech nations around Third Spanish States share something in common with both MT and PMT. And then, considering the importance of this for roleplaying, I would like to know where exactly it does fit in better. I always thought of it as PMT, but I suspect it's right between MT and PMT, instead of fitting fully in only one of them.

I checked those big comparison charts thread and some of the PMT designs (http://doc-evilonavich.deviantart.com/art/Ground-chart-Big-23694960) were clearly much ahead Third Spanish States tech level, as it just can't make hovertanks. On the other hand, well, better to brief some of its advanced technological contents in a list:


Human Cloning
Carbon Nanotubes armors for tanks
Floating mobile island fortresses built with nanotech materials.
Arcologies
Underwater mining facilities and small towns.
Automated anti-air defense systems.
Advanced artificial island building technology(Somewhat ahead of Dubai)
Artificial Intelligences which synthesize thousands of posted opinions into a single message and keep its direct democracy efficient.
Functional modified H&K G11 assault rifles.
Useful portable miniguns.
Infantry multi-purpose missile launcher with targeting system capable of hitting tanks, helicopters and heavy aircrafts.
Alternate fuel sources, mainly hydrogen cars
The first steps to build a Space Elevator are being made.
Vat-grown meat from steam cells, which resurrected the meat industry.
Light anti-air vehicles with powerful engines capable of reaching 74.6 mph in road.


Basically this briefs the technological highlights of Third Spanish States. But... MP5s are still the default submachineguns, Kevlar isn't yet obsolete for infantry bulletproof vests, no rail guns and the only hovering vehicles are maglev trains. If you don't think the listed is enough, you can check the factbook as well. So, any tips on where should I put my nation? MT? PMT? Both?

PS: I'm not sure if it should be here or elsewhere, but as most roleplaying happens here, I guess it does.

Human Cloning is more FT then PMT and no where near MT

Human Cloning is more FT then PMT and no where near MT

Efficient human cloning, definitively FT, but I guess I forgot to mention it is anything but efficient.

It is actually just a little better than current animal cloning in comparison(About 5% chance of successful cloning), which does not block its practice as most of its population have secular and utilitarian views, and is almost exclusively used for research purposes, cloning for reproductive purposes is usually only done in very specific situations, as 95% of the fetuses are "discarded".

Bah, human cloning is easily possible. The only FT part is if you're accelerating the growth process.

Nanotubes aren't too useful for tank armor anyway, so might want to reconsider that. G-11's are also easily MT, given that they're over twenty year old. Miniguns aren't going to really be useful every in a man-portable capacity (ammo alone is too heavy). Everything else, barring nanotech, AI, and space elevator, is also pretty much feasible in MT.

As long as you dont have clone armies or island in a box toys you should be good in the MT/early PMT levels like most people. I dont see very much true PMT anyways..

I would say your early PMT, aside from the AI and all that. Cloning is here, right now it is more then possible. It is done constantly on cows and other farm animals, the only and i repeat the only reason it is not done on humans is ethical reasons. This being said cloning whole armies is not going to happen, nor are we quite capable of cloning fully functioning replacement bodies. However organs can be grown in animals, at least experimentally to use in transplants. I would definetly say your either late MT [the next twenty years] or PMT [about 25-30 years ahead].

However nano construction for macro scale objects <.< well we are far off from that simply because it would take..years to construct a car out of nanomachines right now, let alone a floating island <.<. Also carbon nanotubes are all nice and what not. But a 152 mm Rocket propelled AT shell at mach six is more then likely to make a mockery of that armour anyways, so you still quite happily fit in to MT, its not like anything you have would be invincible. [Also for those that care to wank stats, I also witnessed a video of a T-72 killed from the side by a 20 mm cannon on a bradley, yes a 20 mm shouldnt be able to go through the armour, but it did after a little bit. Armour doesnt always stop what its rated to stop in each situation, this is especially true for tank armour, as the sheer strain of the impact[s] on a stretched skin vehicle can cause it to DIE without the armour being penetrated.]

Even the floating island fortress could be taken out by a few MK 48 torpedo's very easily. much like those 1km super dreadnoughts would break up
MUCH easier then a 120 meter frigate underthe strain of that torp. That being said something so big would make a viable target for a tac nuke. I would say you can play in either PMT or MT, though most MT and PMT people share the same world, as high PMT or near FT is generally grouped in with FT. [High PMT or Near FT is such stuff as gundam's, Battlestar galactica and the like.]

Remember MT is not necessarily going to flow the way it did for us. Greed kept us from the stars, had we kept at the proper rate right now we would have MT space ships capable of going to mars.This is a fact, the russians were building one in the 70's. In fact the design for the mars ship is the basis for the international space station[ though the mars ship would have been arranged out in a line :p]. So you could wind up fitting in to MT just fine. To be on the safe side though..I would go early PMT.

[Note, every year in current science we start to implement things that could only have been considered PMT before. If this seems capable in the next twenty years, then it is MT. Cloning is MT, as is automated AA [though still not any more useful against piloted jet fighters then it was in the sixties heh.]Personal rocket launchers capable of hitting tanks and helicopters and aircraft exist right now [see the last bit of fighting between HAMAS and the IDF, Merkava's, tanks tougher then M1's were littering the landscape in burning heaps heh.] Underwater mining and villages are also easily possible as are moon bases.]

Bah, human cloning is easily possible. The only FT part is if you're accelerating the growth process.

No "growth acceleration", just more or less the same process that worked with Dolly.

Nanotubes aren't too useful for tank armor anyway, so might want to reconsider that. G-11's are also easily MT, given that they're over twenty year old. Miniguns aren't going to really be useful every in a man-portable capacity (ammo alone is too heavy). Everything else, barring nanotech, AI, and space elevator, is also pretty much feasible in MT.

Part of the tanks ideas came from these articles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_protection_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_research_and_development

Thanks for clarifying about nanotubes too. I guess I'll have to replace miniguns for a caseless ammo machinegun(if it's feasible). And the A.I. is just a much more advanced software than MS Word tools for synthesizing text, nothing more. Not so far from current day AIs too. And there is already a space elevator project on the way.

So which would be choice of "late MT" or "early PMT" for a light-weight tank armor?

I guess I'll go with an electric reactive armor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactive_armor#Electric_reactive_armour).

Now the most important thing is that, based on its history my nation timeline is some year quite ahead of 2023(building an artificial island of such size takes time), so its technology should be realistic considering its Age.

Also, what could be used to build an artificial floating island that doesn't involve nanotech? And thanks DVK for the explanation on why huge ships aren't useful. Guess I'll have to stick with the still not designed nuclear submarines, frigates and, transports, carriers. I guess I'll leave nanotechnology as mostly a research activity too.

big ships well Questers HMS Hood is 1,919 metres in length

big ships well Questers HMS Hood is 1,919 metres in length

I do believe that Questers had a change of heart some time ago and no longer fields battleships.

Welcome to PMT then. Some parts are MT, but many are firm PMT. Low-PMT, perhaps, but still not MT.


I do believe that Questers had a change of heart some time ago and no longer fields battleships.
More like a change of mind.
Furthermore, he's decommissioning his SD fleet.


P.S. Electric armor sucks in both TL.
So does space elevator.

P.P.S. Are you going PMT to WIN WARZ or because you want? If the latter, just go. If the former, don't be silly, it won't help. Decide where you want to be and tailor your tech to that, not vice versa.

Welcome to PMT then. Some parts are MT, but many are firm PMT. Low-PMT, perhaps, but still not MT.



More like a change of mind.
Furthermore, he's decommissioning his SD fleet.


P.S. Electric armor sucks in both TL.
So does space elevator.

I guess I'll stick with composite, alloys, ERA and NERA then, though the description in Wikipedia seems very deceptive or overestimated about Electric armor capabilities if it really sucks. Guess it isn't a good source, but I don't know much besides a few sites with statistics about firearms.

In operation, a high-voltage power source charges the armour. When an incoming body penetrates the plates, it closes the circuit to discharge the capacitor, dumping a great deal of energy into the penetrator, which may vaporize it or even turn it into a plasma, significantly diffusing the attack.

And the Space Elevator is just a research program, as the first step to build one is research.

P.P.S. Are you going PMT to WIN WARZ or because you want? If the latter, just go. If the former, don't be silly, it won't help. Decide where you want to be and tailor your tech to that, not vice versa.

Nope, no "WARZ PWNAGE LULZ" silliness, that's also why most of its weaponry already exist too(people still use AK-47 ARs now, why wouldn't they use the more modern rifles in 20 or 30 years ahead?). I'm interested in PMT because it fits more the concepts of my nation and its timeline, according to this article (http://ns.goobergunch.net/wiki/mt.html#Postmodern_Tech). Guess I'll start modifying some of its military, I have no problem admitting I know near nothing about military tech and base everything on superficial knowledge in an attempt to make it seem believable.

Offtopic: Dogmeat, never forget. :salute:

*edit

Replacement for the minigun: http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1000

I guess I'll stick with composite, alloys, ERA and NERA then, though the description in Wikipedia seems very deceptive or overestimated about Electric armor capabilities if it really sucks. Guess it isn't a good source, but I don't know much besides a few sites with statistics about firearms.
Well, if you're interested - NS Draftroom and Tanknet (http://www.tank-net.org/) (not NS) are quite helpful. Tanknet on more serious level, but NSD is better to start with so you come to Tanknet with some knowledge.


And the Space Elevator is just a research program, as the first step to build one is research.
You see, it still sucks. Well, let me elaborate... The immense effort expended in building such a system, and then renewing it (as it gets worn quite fast), even if not outweighing the useful payload, is barely competitive with low-cost rocket launch technologies.
The "build a small one and it will grow" idea is a fallacy: growth rate would be so slow that the old cables would be torn by the time the new ones enter service. Well, in a century... but who's gonna wait a century - and, then, it's still not too good.


people still use AK-47 ARs now, why wouldn't they use the more modern rifles in 20 or 30 years ahead?
You mean "why would they"? Well, they're being replaced with AK-107, and that's about as much as is going to happen in the next 30 years.

As a matter of fact, I have designed, with lots of help from Maxim Popenker (http://world.guns.ru/about/AB00-E.HTM), a sort of what could in some alternate reality become a future rifle. R1 Advanced Combat Rifle (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showtopic=139&hl=), as it's called. But as for RL, I fully realize that something even like that but simpler won't be fielded in even 30 years. Maybe in 50, but as an experimental or spec ops weapon. It just won't be needed.


I'm interested in PMT because it fits more the concepts of my nation and its timeline, according to this article.
Heh, I've wrote quite a bit of that... Well, if your concept is PMT, go for PMT. OTOH you could just as well crack on some techs and bring yourself to MT level, but remember that today in NS MT is Modern Tech. That is, what is possible now (in a couple years maybe), or would be possible by now if it weren't neglected (e.g. aerospace was developed intensely, but not tanks). We have a nanotech consortium, but its goals are limited to production of nanotubes and research in very primitive micromechanics.

There is four time periods not three:

1). MT= Modern Tech
2). PMT = Post Modern Tech
3). NFT = Near Future Tech
4). FT = Future Tech

More like a change of mind.
Furthermore, he's decommissioning his SD fleet.

Hehe, you won't get any argument from me, I've always hated the 19th/early 20th century navy mindset that permeates this place. I just remember he has a sticky ranting about battleships, is all.

There is four time periods not three:

1). MT= Modern Tech
2). PMT = Post Modern Tech
3). NFT = Near Future Tech
4). FT = Future Tech

There are more than that, in fact. The ones I can remember:


Past tech (ranging across a wide variety of eras)
Modern tech
Post-modern tech
Near-future tech
Future tech
Fantasy tech


I think there are even more genres that I can't remember... and that's not including the times when genres clash and merge sometimes either.

This is a very diverse place!