Dostanuot Loj
26-11-2007, 01:03
I posted this on the draftroom, and I figure I'll put it here too for V10 or TFEI to use. It's meant to be generalised, a rough outline.
This is rough, and meant to be very general. It's done by roughly dividing personell by tank forces, where able, in a number of armed forces structures. I'm hoping for a more polished version but it doesn't look like it will happen. At the very least this will allow you guys to figure out what your tank forces cost, how big they are or can be, and how many personell they take.
Section One: Breakdown
I'm going to divide tanks into five categories through this. These are general categories that cover the technological level of the tanks themselves, and are very generalised.
Cat-1: Pre-MBT era tanks such as early T-54 versions, Shermans, T-34s, and so on.
Cat-2: Early MBT versions, ranging from late model Centurions and T-55s, to the M60, AMX-30, and T-72.
Cat-3: Late generation MBTs including the Leopard 2, Abrams, LeClerc, T-80 and T-90, as well as others.
Cat-4: NS grade MBTs, when generally designed to a "level" above those of RL MBTs. High sophistication.
Costs and date will depend on these categories.
Section Two: Costs
The general rule of thumb is that a tank will cost 10% of it's procurement when new cost in spares and maintenence every year. This is virtually universal for active use tanks. Reserve use tanks will cost roughly half of this if used not that often, and stored tanks will cost 1% or less of their purchase price depending on how they are stored. Tanks stored in pieces more akin to a ready-to-assemble kit will cost nothing but what the building costs, and the once a month walk through by security. Tanks kept in mostly running order will need to be taken out every few months, and will cost more. Tanks kept stored in running order will need to be checked, run, and tested every few weeks, and will cost the most, but be the quickest to get into action.
Section Three: Personell
This is where it gets tricky. I will break it down in terms of regiments (Or battalions if you wish to think like that), purely armoured regiments with no infantry attached. A tank regiment consists of between 40 and 60 tanks in 3-4 companies, for reference.
In regimental format, a Cat-1 tank will take 8-12 personell per tank within the regiment. This is not speaking logistics, this is total people in the unit. So a regiment of 42 Cat-1 tanks will need between 336 and 504 people in it. The lower the number of personel, the lower the readiness and quality of the regiment.
Cat-2 tank regiments will take 14-18 personel per tank.
Cat-3 tank regiments will need 20-24 personel per tank.
Cat-4 tank regiments will take 26-30 personel per tank.
These are for independent tank regiments, designed to operate on their own with their own basic logistical support. For regiments built into larger units sharing a common motor pool, the numbers per regiment may be dropped, but the larger unit will need a further ammount tacked on as common. From the above numbers, 30-60% of those personell will be within a dedicated logistics aspect of the larger unit. This means for a division of three regiments sharing a common logistical unit, the regiments will have half what is listed above per personel (or more), and the division will have 30-60% of that number per tank as counted from all the regiments in a seperate unit.
An example. We have a well maintained fleet of M1A2 Abrams. We have a regiment of 48 tanks with 12 personel per tank because of a shared divisional logistics. The division consists of three such tank regiments, for a total of 144 tanks. The personell will be each regiment containing 576 personell, three regimets in the division makes 1728 personel, plus 2073 personel in the combined logistics. That makes a total division strength of 3801 personel, 144 tanks, and no support elements.
Support elements such as infantry, artillery, aviation, and so on are tacked on after. And remember, divisions will need their own logistical systems as well when combined into larger units. These will tack on a further 10% the number of personel per tank.
So in the end we have a general personel of the army need list. For land forces you will need approexemetly 2840 per 100 M1A2 Abrams tanks you have, or 28.4 personel per tank. And this is purely personel involved with the tanks. Infantry, artillery, administration, aviation, and so on will cost extra.
Section Four: Numbers
This is where people may not notice much. How many tanks you can have depends on a lot more factors then people to man them or money. We've already discussed the maintenence and personell issues for active tanks, and the costs of tanks maintenence regardless, now we will look into how your tanks exist.
You can have tanks in four basic states. Active, Reserve, Storage, and Kit.
Active is the state of your tanks being used, this is the most costly in both money and personell, but your tanks are ready to go and be used at a moment's notice.
Reserve is the state where your tanks are in active use by your reserve forces. Either several crews will share a tank, or one crew will use a tank and keep it maintained as needed. This is the second most costly measure and keeps the tanks themselves capable and maintained ready for combat, but your crews will not have much training on them, or you will have several crews per tank.
Storage is the state that most of your tanks willlikely be in, and most of them will be of the previous generation. In this state your tanks are either fully functional, or mostly functional, and are maintained by a small staff. At this level 20 people can easily maintain 100 tanks in high-readiness storage. Tanks in this state will take a little time to be readied for combat, and older models may need to be upgraded, but they will be avalible as war reserves as needed.
Kit is what I call the lowest readiness stage of Storage. In this stage tanks and their componants are almost, or are, completely disassembled. Hulls, turrets, guns, everything is stored as individual pieces. In this stage little to no paintenence is required, merely a decent warehouse tohold everything. However, pulling tanks from this stage requires they be put back together again, which will take the most time, but still be quicker then building new ones. Ideally, for armies with large tank forces, this will be where many of their tanks are.
General rules of thumb are that a nation can keep two-thirds of it's tank force in high readiness Storage, with the remaining third being split between active and reserve units. Further tanks, limited only by how much space you have, can be kept broken down as near kits.
If we take for example, the US Army just after the end of the cold war, and the Soviet army just before the end.
The US Army had roughly 5000 tanks in service with the Army, Marines, and National Guard. A further 10,000 tanks were avalible in storage, mostly older types. The Soviet army on the other hand had 16,000 tanks in some form of active or reserve use, out of a total 52,000. A further 20,000 would be in storage in a state ready to be brought into action if needed. The remaining tanks would be taken apart and stored as componant pieces to be put back together if needed. By using kit storage, the USSR managed to retain a high number of tanks for combat, while not spending too much money and personell on them.
Take my own forces for example. Right now Sumer has the largest (that I know of) armoured force on NS. A total of 6,360,000 main battle tanks (current count). Of that, about 1.6 million are in active service, 1.25 million in reserve service, a further 1.5 million in a high-readiness state of storage, and finally 2 million more tanks stored as quick-assemble kits. This provides a massive number of ready tanks if needed, as well as war reserves. The number of tanks possible to be owned by Sumer could stretch as high as fifteen million with more vehicles produced.
Section Five: Lifespan
Now here is the last thing, and needs to be considered before assuming you can keep and store any tanks you wish. The lifetime of a tank depends on it's wear and tear, how much it's used. Outside of combat, tanks will last 15-20 years if well maintained in active use. In less active use they could last as long as 25-30 years, like in reserve use. Stored tanks can be stored as long as 50 years before regular maintenence and testing/running wears them down, and tanks stored in kit fashion can be kept as long as needed. These limits are important to remember because it's the point at which the tank's chassis begins to crack and wear down. Canadian Leopard C2 tanks for example are at the end of their life pushing some 30 years now, their chassis' are cracking and they are becomming virtually impossible to maintain. This is whay happens with regular use, and is the general limiting factor to tank force sizes, especially on NS.
There, it's rough and general, but it gives you a good idea. I hope it helps.
This is rough, and meant to be very general. It's done by roughly dividing personell by tank forces, where able, in a number of armed forces structures. I'm hoping for a more polished version but it doesn't look like it will happen. At the very least this will allow you guys to figure out what your tank forces cost, how big they are or can be, and how many personell they take.
Section One: Breakdown
I'm going to divide tanks into five categories through this. These are general categories that cover the technological level of the tanks themselves, and are very generalised.
Cat-1: Pre-MBT era tanks such as early T-54 versions, Shermans, T-34s, and so on.
Cat-2: Early MBT versions, ranging from late model Centurions and T-55s, to the M60, AMX-30, and T-72.
Cat-3: Late generation MBTs including the Leopard 2, Abrams, LeClerc, T-80 and T-90, as well as others.
Cat-4: NS grade MBTs, when generally designed to a "level" above those of RL MBTs. High sophistication.
Costs and date will depend on these categories.
Section Two: Costs
The general rule of thumb is that a tank will cost 10% of it's procurement when new cost in spares and maintenence every year. This is virtually universal for active use tanks. Reserve use tanks will cost roughly half of this if used not that often, and stored tanks will cost 1% or less of their purchase price depending on how they are stored. Tanks stored in pieces more akin to a ready-to-assemble kit will cost nothing but what the building costs, and the once a month walk through by security. Tanks kept in mostly running order will need to be taken out every few months, and will cost more. Tanks kept stored in running order will need to be checked, run, and tested every few weeks, and will cost the most, but be the quickest to get into action.
Section Three: Personell
This is where it gets tricky. I will break it down in terms of regiments (Or battalions if you wish to think like that), purely armoured regiments with no infantry attached. A tank regiment consists of between 40 and 60 tanks in 3-4 companies, for reference.
In regimental format, a Cat-1 tank will take 8-12 personell per tank within the regiment. This is not speaking logistics, this is total people in the unit. So a regiment of 42 Cat-1 tanks will need between 336 and 504 people in it. The lower the number of personel, the lower the readiness and quality of the regiment.
Cat-2 tank regiments will take 14-18 personel per tank.
Cat-3 tank regiments will need 20-24 personel per tank.
Cat-4 tank regiments will take 26-30 personel per tank.
These are for independent tank regiments, designed to operate on their own with their own basic logistical support. For regiments built into larger units sharing a common motor pool, the numbers per regiment may be dropped, but the larger unit will need a further ammount tacked on as common. From the above numbers, 30-60% of those personell will be within a dedicated logistics aspect of the larger unit. This means for a division of three regiments sharing a common logistical unit, the regiments will have half what is listed above per personel (or more), and the division will have 30-60% of that number per tank as counted from all the regiments in a seperate unit.
An example. We have a well maintained fleet of M1A2 Abrams. We have a regiment of 48 tanks with 12 personel per tank because of a shared divisional logistics. The division consists of three such tank regiments, for a total of 144 tanks. The personell will be each regiment containing 576 personell, three regimets in the division makes 1728 personel, plus 2073 personel in the combined logistics. That makes a total division strength of 3801 personel, 144 tanks, and no support elements.
Support elements such as infantry, artillery, aviation, and so on are tacked on after. And remember, divisions will need their own logistical systems as well when combined into larger units. These will tack on a further 10% the number of personel per tank.
So in the end we have a general personel of the army need list. For land forces you will need approexemetly 2840 per 100 M1A2 Abrams tanks you have, or 28.4 personel per tank. And this is purely personel involved with the tanks. Infantry, artillery, administration, aviation, and so on will cost extra.
Section Four: Numbers
This is where people may not notice much. How many tanks you can have depends on a lot more factors then people to man them or money. We've already discussed the maintenence and personell issues for active tanks, and the costs of tanks maintenence regardless, now we will look into how your tanks exist.
You can have tanks in four basic states. Active, Reserve, Storage, and Kit.
Active is the state of your tanks being used, this is the most costly in both money and personell, but your tanks are ready to go and be used at a moment's notice.
Reserve is the state where your tanks are in active use by your reserve forces. Either several crews will share a tank, or one crew will use a tank and keep it maintained as needed. This is the second most costly measure and keeps the tanks themselves capable and maintained ready for combat, but your crews will not have much training on them, or you will have several crews per tank.
Storage is the state that most of your tanks willlikely be in, and most of them will be of the previous generation. In this state your tanks are either fully functional, or mostly functional, and are maintained by a small staff. At this level 20 people can easily maintain 100 tanks in high-readiness storage. Tanks in this state will take a little time to be readied for combat, and older models may need to be upgraded, but they will be avalible as war reserves as needed.
Kit is what I call the lowest readiness stage of Storage. In this stage tanks and their componants are almost, or are, completely disassembled. Hulls, turrets, guns, everything is stored as individual pieces. In this stage little to no paintenence is required, merely a decent warehouse tohold everything. However, pulling tanks from this stage requires they be put back together again, which will take the most time, but still be quicker then building new ones. Ideally, for armies with large tank forces, this will be where many of their tanks are.
General rules of thumb are that a nation can keep two-thirds of it's tank force in high readiness Storage, with the remaining third being split between active and reserve units. Further tanks, limited only by how much space you have, can be kept broken down as near kits.
If we take for example, the US Army just after the end of the cold war, and the Soviet army just before the end.
The US Army had roughly 5000 tanks in service with the Army, Marines, and National Guard. A further 10,000 tanks were avalible in storage, mostly older types. The Soviet army on the other hand had 16,000 tanks in some form of active or reserve use, out of a total 52,000. A further 20,000 would be in storage in a state ready to be brought into action if needed. The remaining tanks would be taken apart and stored as componant pieces to be put back together if needed. By using kit storage, the USSR managed to retain a high number of tanks for combat, while not spending too much money and personell on them.
Take my own forces for example. Right now Sumer has the largest (that I know of) armoured force on NS. A total of 6,360,000 main battle tanks (current count). Of that, about 1.6 million are in active service, 1.25 million in reserve service, a further 1.5 million in a high-readiness state of storage, and finally 2 million more tanks stored as quick-assemble kits. This provides a massive number of ready tanks if needed, as well as war reserves. The number of tanks possible to be owned by Sumer could stretch as high as fifteen million with more vehicles produced.
Section Five: Lifespan
Now here is the last thing, and needs to be considered before assuming you can keep and store any tanks you wish. The lifetime of a tank depends on it's wear and tear, how much it's used. Outside of combat, tanks will last 15-20 years if well maintained in active use. In less active use they could last as long as 25-30 years, like in reserve use. Stored tanks can be stored as long as 50 years before regular maintenence and testing/running wears them down, and tanks stored in kit fashion can be kept as long as needed. These limits are important to remember because it's the point at which the tank's chassis begins to crack and wear down. Canadian Leopard C2 tanks for example are at the end of their life pushing some 30 years now, their chassis' are cracking and they are becomming virtually impossible to maintain. This is whay happens with regular use, and is the general limiting factor to tank force sizes, especially on NS.
There, it's rough and general, but it gives you a good idea. I hope it helps.