NationStates Jolt Archive


IDI Shipyards Commissions new Flagship ירושלים

IDF
21-11-2007, 09:08
Israeli Military News Service, Haifa:

After twenty-two years of construction, the INS ירושלים (Yerushalayim/Jerusalem) was commissioned to much fanfare at the Haifa Naval Base. The new vessel has already completed sea trials before being delivered as a Pre-Commissioning Unit to the Israeli Navy.

The vessel is the flagship of the Israeli Navy and Chief of Naval Operations Joseph Jacobson. Her first Commanding Officer is Commodore Itzhak Robinski. The ship performed well during her sea trials nine months ago and had additional work done on her to fix a few issues that came up.

With all of the issues ironed out, she was deemed fit for delivery and commissioning. Over three million showed up to witness the ceremony.

Despite the fanfare over the commissioning of this grand vessel, not much information has been released to the public. What we do know is that she is nearly 3,000,000 tons and 950 meters long. She mounts 30" ETC guns in addition to secondary armaments. Her armor scheme is heavily classified, but it has been linked that she has a special fire suppression system and a new missile defense system.

The following report is heavily classified and has only been released in this thread for purposes of letting others know about the vessel. Of course other bits of info will leak and foreign intel services will discover stuff about here, but in the meantime gawk at my vessel,

ירושלים (Yerushalayim) Jerusalem class SDN

Project Overview: The Guillen class SDNs of IDF’s past were moderately successful against contemporary super dreadnaughts. They still did not dominate the battle space in the way that ships built by IDF are expected to. It was with this in mind that naval engineers and naval architects decided to design a new ship instead of making a second batch to follow the four Guillen class vessels.

This has proven to be a bright idea as the prevailing mindset changed in recent years following the IDF Civil War. It was decided that future warship designs would be made to excel in one particular area. Attempts to build a jack of all trades ship made the navy more economical, but it failed to create the best battle ready navy afloat. The ships could perform many diverse tasks well, but they never excelled anywhere.

This new mindset was put to use for the design of the Yerushalayim class. While this new class of vessels is equipped to be adequate at several tasks, its primary mission is to deliver a large quantity of 30” shells on target.
New technologies in armor, damage control, weaponry, propulsion, and power have been developed in the years since we rolled out the Guillen. These technologies have been put on test beds and thoroughly analyzed. Some have even found themselves placed on smaller ships in the fleet where they have performed well.

IDF Shipyards is proud to present the specs and general information for Pre-Commissioning Unit Yerushalayim.

MAIN STATS

Length: 950 meters or 3,117 feet
Width (overall): 288 meters or 945 feet (including main hull and 2 outriggers)
Draft: 26 meters or 85 feet
Displacement: 2,995,500 tons full load

POWERPLANT/PROPULSION

Primary Powerplant: 12x Masada Engineering SPB2-A pebblebed reactors rated at 145 MW each. They can provide well over 1500 MW for propulsion and power for various ship systems. Most importantly, these provide power for the ETC guns. After researching nuclear power for about 50 years the Jewish State has discovered some efficient designs appropriate for use aboard large warships.

Auxiliary Powerplant: 4 x Westinghouse A4W reactors rated at a total of 208 MW. These can provide limited power for propulsion and the ETC guns.
Emergency Power: A large store of batteries has been added to the second blast space (specified in armor scheme) below the waterline. The batteries have the dual purpose of being strong pieces of equipment to absorb the blast of a torpedo, and they also provide a last ditch source of power. In order to ensure maximum battery life, each battery is occasionally drained and then recharged. There is a set schedule so only a few batteries are down at a time. Even with every battery charged to the maximum, power can only be provided for 48 hours with few ship systems online.

Electric Power Generation: Each reactor is connected to a separate electric turbine. These turbines convert the heat energy in the high pressured steam into pure electrical power. This power is used for the various ship systems.

Propulsion: The Yerushalayim is equipped with eight high powered water jets. Six of the jets are affixed to the main hull while one additional one is on each of the outriggers to help with the vessel’s maneuverability. Each of the water jets has vectored exit points. These allow the outgoing water to be directed in a controlled direction. It is through this system that the ship’s primary maneuvering is provided. This system provides the ship with a cruising speed of 25 knots and a top spring speed of 28.5 knots. The ship’s movement is further improved by a bulbous bow, which decreases drag.

Maneuvering: In addition to the thrust vectoring of the water jets, several sets of maneuvering thrusters are at the bow and stern of the vessel. These allow more fine maneuvers. This is key as the primary engines cannot be safely used in shallow waters or in busy harbors.

Armaments

Primary Batteries The primary weapon of the Yerushalayim class DN is the 30” ETC guns it carries. The vessel carries five Israeli Defense Industries Mk-1948 30/86 ETC guns. Each turret mounts four of these deadly guns. When using rockets based off of the Extended Range Guided Munition program, the vessel can lob its shells 750 km.

A variety of shells can be used from standard high explosive shells to a naval derivative of the APDS tungsten shells. HE is optimal against ground targets and poorly armored vessels. Well armored vessels need a KE dependent weapon that can penetrate a vessel’s hull. Regardless of shell size, HE won’t be effective against a large amount of armor. It will just explode against the side of a vessel. Another type of shell that is carried can inject superheated plasma through an enemy ship’s armor. This is done with the hope of starting fires aboard an enemy ship. It is a little known fact that more vessels are lost to fire than flooding.

The guns can fire at angles ranging from -2 degrees to 31.5 degrees over the horizon. The use of UAVs equipped with laser designators and sensors which measure air conditions greatly increases the accuracy of the guns over long distances. (more detail in Aircraft section)

The guns are reloaded by an automatic loader. The autoloader uses an elevator system to take shells out of the magazine below decks into the turret lobby where it loads the shells into the barrels before firing. The autoloader allows each gun to be fired once every 60-70 seconds. (times vary based on maintenance level of the machinery) The automated system is capable of working faster, but it means removing the blast hatches, which is NOT recommended. More information is provided on this topic in the Survivability section.

Secondary Batteries The vessel is equipped with 40 IDI Mk-70 5/65 ETC guns. The guns are mounted on 20 dual turrets. These 5” guns allow the ship to engage closer targets. With ERGM assisted shells, the 5 inch mounts can fire 250 km. These weapons are great for gun support of ground troops.

Missile Cells: While the Yerushalayim is not a missile ship, she does mount IDI 5th Generation VLS cells. She carries 256 cells in 4 groups of 64 (arranged 8x8) individual cells. The light number of VLS cells is done to ensure that all vulnerable portions of the ship can be covered by the outriggers. Each of the cells is double length to allow the storage of twice the normal number of missiles in the cells.

Point Defense: The point defense system of the vessel shows the true ingenuity of IDF engineers. Instead of several different systems, a new integrated mount has been developed for defense against incoming missiles and shells.

Israeli Defense Industries has brought forth the patented Mk-1 Mod-0 Integrated Point Defense System. This IDI invention combines several interceptors in 20 separate pods placed throughout the vessel.

Each of the Mk-1 pods mounts a 30 mm autocannon that boasts a fire rate of 8,000 rounds per minute. This is just one of the three separate systems the Mk-1 uses. The good sized Mk-1 cells also mount small point defense SAMs. These are based off of the RAM, but have more advanced sensors. Each pod can carry 15 of the small missiles. The final part of the 3 pronged point defense is the use of the IDI Anti-Missile Laser System. This system was first tried on the Netanyahu and has been perfected after seeing large amounts of combat use. This laser can hit and destroy missiles as soon as they come over the horizon. It is effective at taking out cruise missiles when they get in range, but is more effective at taking out ballistic weapons and medium sized shells. This is because the ballistic arc of travel allows more time to engage them.

Due to the large size of the Yerushalayim, each of the Mk-1 pods contains its own RADAR. This is needed for more precise targeting for each unit placed on the half mile length of the ship.

Underwater Armaments: The Yerushalayim does not contain the large torpedo tubes other DNs carry. These compromise the strength of the hull and provide a good chance of secondary explosions should a ship take an otherwise survivable hit.

The ship is armed with twelve underwater railguns. This is a relatively new technology for IDF, but it has been tested and has killed incoming torpedoes out to 60 meters. The system is fully automated. While a torpedo may still explode close the hull, it will not likely cause any damage since it won’t get a direct hit.

Survivability

Armor: The primary key to this ship’s survival is the armor. The ship doesn’t carry aircraft and weighs in at nearly 3 million tons because of the armor it carries. The key to the vessel’s survival is a honeycomb network of heavy structural support beams made of titanium. While these account for much of the inflated cost of the vessel, they ensure survivability.

The outer layer of the ship’s hull is lined with explosive reactive armor. This armor provides protection against HE rounds which most ships fire. The primary issues ERA has on tanks is not an issue as no ships would be close enough to the Yerushalayim in battle for issues to occur. The hull is protected from the elements by a layer of rubber tiles similar to those which coat submarines. The tiles harm the effectiveness of active SONAR and absorb noise. Behind the rubberized layer is a layer of electrically charged armor. It is a thin layer, but it can put heavy amounts of electrical energy through a plasma blast. It also has effectiveness against KE weapons. On back of the conducting sheet is a grounding layer. This layer is attached to the first primary layer.

The first layer of primary armor is thick steel. There is a large space between the first layer and the next layer. Several layers of cylindrical tungsten rods and a sheet of kevlar are within this void. The void exists to that armor piercing missiles can explode harmlessly away from the important sections of the ship. The rods work to break up, slow, or divert the energy of armor piercing KE weapons. Weapons which inject plasma streams are also made ineffective through the use of this void space. The fire suppression system is operational in this void.

The second layer of primary armor is also made of steel and helps contain explosions which occur in the primary void space. It also helps stop KE weapons slowed by the first layer and tungsten rods in the void space. A secondary void space is placed behind this layer of armor. It is smaller than the first, but it has two more layers of tungsten and allows for further energy dissipation. IDF’s new fire suppression system is also used in this layer. This final void space also houses the back-up power batteries mentioned earlier in this technical report on the vessel.

The final layer of armor is composite armor not unlike the Chobham armor seen on tanks. It is effective against KE penetrators and shaped charges. This final layer is connected to the honeycomb structural support beams.
A separate layer of Chobham armor lines key spaces such as magazines.
Torpedoes are often used against SDNs. This is known to us so we have decided to add tungsten supports to the keel so that a torpedo exploding directly under the keel will not fracture the keel. The entire keel has been reinforced throughout the length of the vessel. These tungsten supports are a part of the vast honeycomb system that is a part of the ship’s structure. A direct hit from a large torpedo will not crack this ship’s keel. In fact, the destruction of the keel would not likely cause the failure of the ship’s structure as the honeycomb support system makes it so that the stress from the ship’s weight is not put directly on the keel.

The passive defense of three blast spaces were added to the armor scheme below the waterline. This means that should a torpedo pierce the armor, then the blast energy will be absorbed by the batteries that line the spaces between the armor layers. These batteries do add weight to the vessel, but they do serve a purpose and help power the vessel.

The trimarian design adds more passive defense to the vessel. The outriggers are the most exposed portion of the ship. While the superstructure, bow, and stern are exposed, they do not carry the most vulnerable parts of a ship. The magazines, reactors, and weapons are all masked by the outriggers, which provide extra steel for any shells to penetrate before damaging vital systems of the ship.

Damage Control Systems: The initial hit from a weapon is not what is going to sink your ship. The after effects of flooding and fire are more likely to destroy your vessel. Of these threats, fire has led to more ships being lost in battle than flooding. As you walk through passageways and compartments, you will notice several pipes running along the bulkheads or hanging from the overhead. Every single compartment and passageway has several three-way gaskets. These pipes are part of the advanced fire suppression system.

Each compartment has at least two sets of 4 pipes. Within the three pipes are water, CO2, Dry NaCl granules, and AFFF. The pipe gaskets are controlled from the bridge, AMR-1, AMR-3, and DC Central. Those four sites can control all gaskets aboard the ship. Localized DC Lockers can control the gaskets for nearby compartments. The use of multiple sets of pipes ensures that breaches won’t compromise the entire system. Pressure can be cut off if necessary when a pipe bursts.

Extra pipes are present in critical areas of the ship like magazines and turret lobbies. This is crucial as these sections may require emergency flooding of water, or one of the chemicals used by the ship. It has happened in past battles where flash fires in these areas destroyed an entire ship. The quick ability to flood the compartments can suppress these flash fires before they compromise the ship.

The key to the fire suppression system is an array of sensors which inform DC crews, engineers, and the bridge what damage has occurred and where it is. They also can detect which type of fire is burning. This allows the operators of the fire suppression system to know which system to use to extinguish the fire. This is important as the crew needs to know whether a fire is Class A, B, C, or D. Use of water on class B,C, or D fires can make matters worse and only NaCl granules can deal with a dreaded class delta fire.

Flooding is of course still a threat to any ship. The ship has hundreds of powerful pumps in its many compartments. These pumps can be powered by emergency generators should main and auxiliary power fail aboard the vessel. It is doubtful that flooding rates would exceed the rate at which the pumps can expel water. Should a compartment be overwhelmed, it will not be a problem as the ship is well compartmentalized thanks to the heavy use of bulkheads and watertight seals around all hatches, which are dogged during combat conditions.

A solid hit to a vessel can breach bulkheads and lead to flooding. It is for this reason that dozens of DC lockers are placed throughout the ship. These are sites where DC teams can meet and store equipment. They also can control local fire suppression systems from the DC lockers. Wood and steel used to shore up sagging bulkheads is also stored in these locations.

A hit to a turret lobby is a threat that ships have faced since WWI. The British BCs lost at Jutland were lost due to flash fires resulting from such hits. The shaft from the turret lobby to the magazines is a vulnerable spot due to fires. It is for this reason that three blast doors are placed along the shaft. They slow down the reload times by about 10 seconds, but they make the ship much safer in battle.

Aircraft

Unlike other SDNs of similar size, the Yerushalayim doesn’t carry a large air wing. This is part of the specialization of ship roles. SDNs carrying an air wing are just making their ship more vulnerable. Aircraft require large amounts of fuel and having them armed on the deck means that there is a great potential for large secondary explosions which can lead to the destruction of a ship.

This move also means that a smaller crew can be carried and the ship has a lighter base load. The weight saved by this move allowed IDF Shipyard’s designers to add additional armor and reserves for fire retardant chemicals.
This ship still has capabilities for aircraft. It has the deck space to land several helicopters, but it normally does not carry them.

The ship does carry a squadron of UAVs. These UAVs are designed to have a much smaller RCS than most stealth aircraft. This is achieved due to their small size and the use of traditional stealth techniques. The primary use of the UAVs is for enhancing the targeting of the main guns by providing laser designators and data on atmospheric conditions. This data greatly increases the accuracy of the shells, especially the shells of the APDS variety with fins.
The UAVs used are heavily classified and not for sale at this time. The addition of UCAVs is possible for this vessel and will likely be done in the future. As of the launch of this vessel, no UCAVs are carried.

Command and Control

SENSORS: The ship carries an array of RADARs and SONARs. Decades have been spent researching improved RADAR and SONAR systems for ships of the Kheel Heem. The new L’Chafes RADAR suite was developed by Israeli Defense Industries midway through the construction of the Yerushalayim. The ship was supposed to have the standard RADAR suite found on most vessels in service with the Kheel Heem, but the design was changed to incorporate the new system.

The large oval shaped pod atop the vessel houses the IDI Caleb I Mod 0 Search RADAR. It is capable of sending RADAR waves out in all 360 degrees and has an output of twenty-five million watts of power. Much of this power can be directed down a single degree of bearing. It will affect electronics in the area directed. This has been tried successfully as a method of last resort to fry the electronic systems of incoming “vampires.” This RADAR tracks both surface and air targets. The high energy output allows it to burn through jammers.

The ship has eight smaller fire control RADARs. They control weapons as they are in the final stages of acquisition. In cases where the targets are over the horizon, closer vessels and/or aircraft can fulfill this final role. The UAVs carried aboard this vessel were designed with this in mind.

The ship has a tenth generation active/passive SONAR built into the bulbous bow. This system is combined with the towed arrays to form the Yam Sonar Suite.

ECDIS is carried aboard all IDF Navy vessels for navigation purposes. It can cross link the RADAR targets onto the standard GPS coordinates. This is helpful not just for the navigation job it fulfills, but also for allowing you to have a better idea of the geography around the target.

CIC: It is obvious that this ship will be the flagship of any Navy that may use it. Due to this fact, a large CIC has been constructed to ensure that your battlegroup commander has a firm grasp on the battle. The CIC is located deep within the vessel under the superstructure. The large room is about two decks in height and is lined with LCD monitors. The crew in CIC can manage the battle for the entire fleet.

CIC is equipped with top encrypted ship to ship communications equipment. This allows the battlegroup commander to have direct links to all of the COs of each of his ships.

The ship’s own RADARs do not have to be operating for the crew to get a view of the battle. Under EMCON conditions, the ship can upload the RADAR picture from one of its escort vessels or an aircraft. When the ship’s own RADARs are operating, it can track up to four thousand targets. The crew in the CIC has a full view of the battle even if a target is not within their own RADAR range. This is done as the RADAR picture provided is a composite of the picture that each battlegroup asset has. This picture is then transmitted to the CICs of each ship in the fleet carrying compatible equipment. History has shown that having a clear picture of what you are up against is crucial in winning a naval battle. It is perhaps more important that the power of your ship.

Computer System: A large compartment stands towards the bow above Auxiliary Machinery Room #2 (AMR2). This compartment houses fourty-eight mainframes which run many of the ship’s functions and provide assistance for targeting calculations and navigation. Secondary housings for computers can be found inside of AMR 8 AMR11, AMR 14, AMR 21 and AMR 29. Each of these secondary housings carry twelve additional mainframes. The primary computer room and the two AMRs each have large quantities of coolant stored for the purposes of keeping the computers from overheating. These computers are linked to each other and smaller workstations through over a million miles of fiber optic cord.

Crew and Storage

The Yerushalayim requires a rather large crew. The planned crew size is about 12,000 sailors. The Admiral’s wardroom should have about 500 commissioned officers. The goat locker should have 2,000 Chiefs (E-7 through E-9). The crew will be rounded out by 9,500 enlisted men from E-2 to E-6 ratings. Accommodations are made for 500 marines.

The officer quarters are set up so that the 12 men at O-6 and above each get their own cabin. Only the Admiral, CO, and XO have a sizeable one. The rest are about 100 square feet. Senior Officers (O-4 and O-5) share a double with another officer. JOs (O-1 through O-3) are placed in a cabin with a 3 high bunk. All officers are of course welcome in the wardroom, which has been placed in the superstructure below the bridge. All of the officer’s quarters are within the superstructure.

The Chiefs get double stacked bunks in large berthing areas. The Chiefs do have their own mess area and recreation area in the goat locker. No officer or junior enlisted man is granted access into the goat locker without expressed permission from the Command Master Chief. The goat locker is located amidships. It is above Engine Room #3 and below the CIC. Many of the berthing spaces for the chiefs are within the outriggers.

Enlisted men are cramped into large berthing spaces. Many of the berthing spaces are placed within the outriggers. Their bunks are three high and all of their possessions are either in a locker or under the mattress. More crew can be carried if hot bunking is done. This is often used when Midshipmen are on their summer cruise. If hot bunking is used, the crew capacity is increased by 50%, but morale can suffer.

Large storage holds are also placed within the outriggers. The ship can store enough supplies for an 8 month cruise with a full crew. She of course can resupply at sea if necessary. When on a shorter 3 month surge deployment, she can serve as a fleet replenisher. She can do this either through lines or vertical pallets.

Pricing and Export:

The Yerushalayim is NOT for sale at this time. Should it be sold in the future, it will be done so only to trusted allies and with some of the technologies stripped.

The PCU Yerushalayim as built has a cost of $475 billion per unit. This is a high cost compared to other SDNs, but we see it as worth the price as this vessel has upgraded armor, damage control, computer, and command capabilities over any SDN afloat. The use of materials such as titanium and tungsten have contributed to the great cost of this vessel. Sure there are cheaper SDNs with full airwings, but they are much less likely to survive a fight than our SDN is. She will have a better chance to survive the anti-SDN torpedoes that doom all other SDNs.
Qooi
21-11-2007, 09:42
((OCC questions asked IC))

What internal security measures are in place? Such a mighty vessel is no doubt protected against large-scale physical attack, but what's to stop, as an example, an act of espionage that could at worse render the ship unusable, or at least effect its combat readiness? A small explosion in the right place would perhaps cripple the ship, as would I imagine the release of a bio-chemical weapon? Also, as vessels become more and more computerised, the risk of cyberterrorism only increases. How do you defend against these sort of threats?

Although such a vessel is far beyond our budget and indeed needs, we cannot help but envy such a marvel of engineering.
Stevid
21-11-2007, 10:48
You'd be crazy not to put Marines on there in which case that would be his counter-espoinage stuff. But it's a militray ship, your average officer would notice someone out of place and duelly detain them or shoot them.

Armour

About the armour IDF, Honeycomb structure? Fail, while it does work it just doesn't work for very long. Honeycomb structures, particularly when employed on such a large and heavy ship such as this, have a tendency to shatter after say.... a missile or shell impact. ERA on tanks is great because the shells can be deflected or countered by other means. On ships it is terrible, a ship this size isn't going to be shot at by tank shells. This is easily a super dreadnought so dreadnought killer shells (20-35" shells) are going to be striking it, not to mention NS missile striking with a terminal velocity of Mach 4 and above. ERA in this case is over expensive and offers little or no protection. However I noticed you mentioned void spaces which is exactly what I use and many others to armour our ships. First layer of armour being the strongest and thickest, a foot or so of void space where the shell is deflected and then the secondary and even teritary layer or armour.

I can't remember how to work out the Block Coefficient on ships so I dunno if the displacement is right. An avergae guess would be yes.... but I dunno... maybe a tad light.

Armament

You shouldn't need underwater railguns with this thing, in fact any under water armament is going to be a waste if you are defending against torpedoes. This is a grand ship so are you willing to send it into battle unescorted? The escorts would handle the subs and the torpedoes, any torps that are launched would be dealt with anyway and a mass launch would be detected. If one torpedo hits your ship it won't be the end of the world. More like the hit would have been a lucky shot anyway. Screw the underwater armament and just escort it everywhere.

Aircraft

Not many SDNs carry airwings anyway and only a few Super Caps (mine included) have them. Your average wing would be under 50 aircraft. With UAVs the number is again restricted.
___________

I'll let the major critics who spend most of their time to understanding the naval maths, but those are my two cents really. I would pick up on more but others could talk about it better.

Also, try posting it here:

http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom
IDF
21-11-2007, 23:12
You'd be crazy not to put Marines on there in which case that would be his counter-espoinage stuff. But it's a militray ship, your average officer would notice someone out of place and duelly detain them or shoot them.
We do have 500 marines on the ship. In addition to that, one of the over 100 ratings for our enlisted sailors is Naval Infantry. They fulfill the role the Marine Corp was originally supposed to do. It is different from the marines as the marines are infantry trained in amphibious assaults.


Armour

About the armour IDF, Honeycomb structure? Fail, while it does work it just doesn't work for very long. Honeycomb structures, particularly when employed on such a large and heavy ship such as this, have a tendency to shatter after say.... a missile or shell impact. ERA on tanks is great because the shells can be deflected or countered by other means. On ships it is terrible, a ship this size isn't going to be shot at by tank shells. This is easily a super dreadnought so dreadnought killer shells (20-35" shells) are going to be striking it, not to mention NS missile striking with a terminal velocity of Mach 4 and above. ERA in this case is over expensive and offers little or no protection. However I noticed you mentioned void spaces which is exactly what I use and many others to armour our ships. First layer of armour being the strongest and thickest, a foot or so of void space where the shell is deflected and then the secondary and even teritary layer or armour.

I can't remember how to work out the Block Coefficient on ships so I dunno if the displacement is right. An avergae guess would be yes.... but I dunno... maybe a tad light.

The honeycomb structure isn't built to survive the hits above the waterline. We have three layers of primary armor and two void spaces to fulfill that role. As was specified in the torpedo defense section, the honeycomb structure is utilized so that a hit to the keel isn't fatal to the structural integrity of the vessel. Using the normal construction methods, a keel hit will be fatal to a ship.

The ERA won't do much against a shell, but it is useful against an armor piercing missile. Our ERA can be switched into active mode where it explodes as an APS just before a missile impacts it. The explosion sends out shrapnel which will hopefully damage the missile leading to a premature explosion of the warhead. We know it will do almost nothing to a shell.

As for our primary armor, we have the electrified sheet in front of the main armor. The void spaces aren't normal void spaces as tungsten rods are used to break up KE shells. This means our first void space is larger than most as these rods take up space. The fire suppression system also protects the ship from a still burning rocket motor or class Delta fires we expect from some weapons.

The second layer is just sheer steel and the void space behind it is smaller, but has a few more tungsten rods and batteries so the space serves a purpose other than defense.

The final layer is chobham. While chobham on an earlier layer would be easily breached, having it on an inner layer is useful as it would stop KE shells which were previously slowed by other layers and tungsten. This is the key to our armor. The use of earlier layers to slow, deform, and reshape a shell before it hits the final layer meant for KE weapons.

Armament

You shouldn't need underwater railguns with this thing, in fact any under water armament is going to be a waste if you are defending against torpedoes. This is a grand ship so are you willing to send it into battle unescorted? The escorts would handle the subs and the torpedoes, any torps that are launched would be dealt with anyway and a mass launch would be detected. If one torpedo hits your ship it won't be the end of the world. More like the hit would have been a lucky shot anyway. Screw the underwater armament and just escort it everywhere.

We will always have a screening force. The problem is that a sub always holds the advantage over the surface screening fleet. Even if we aren't talking about subs, there are larger torpedoes deployed much as the CAPTOR is. Those could spell a problem.

Aircraft

Not many SDNs carry airwings anyway and only a few Super Caps (mine included) have them. Your average wing would be under 50 aircraft. With UAVs the number is again restricted.

___________

I'll let the major critics who spend most of their time to understanding the naval maths, but those are my two cents really. I would pick up on more but others could talk about it better.

Also, try posting it here:

http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom
Fair enough
Questers
21-11-2007, 23:39
meantime gawk at my vessel

No.

This has proven to be a bright idea

Superdreadnoughts =! Bright Idea.

Length: 950 meters or 3,117 feet
Width (overall): 288 meters or 945 feet (including main hull and 2 outriggers)
Draft: 26 meters or 85 feet
Displacement: 2,995,500 tons full load

OK Firstly your displacement is probably, even if you don't fix the draught, about two fifths of what it should be. Since you didn't give stats for the outriggers I can't properly calculate displacement but nevertheless, 2.995 mio tons is way too small.

Secondly your draught is too low and won't allow sufficient structural integrity. Again, since you don't give outrigger stats, I can't really suggest a suitable draught, but it should be in the 40-60 metres area.

Each turret mounts four of these deadly guns. Why use quad guns? Efficiency caps out at triple turrets, and especially if you're going to fire long range I would assume you would prioritise accuracy over weight of fire.

When using rockets based off of the Extended Range Guided Munition program, the vessel can lob its shells 750 km.

Um, no. Firstly, the possibility of hitting a ship at 750km is less than 1%. Firing at OTH your accuracy is abysmal. Its bad practice to overrate and provide the maximum number for your designs to trick people into thinking thats its standard capability.

Secondly, explain how the munitions are guided? INSGPS? RADAR?

A variety of shells can be used from standard high explosive shells to a naval derivative of the APDS tungsten shells. HE is optimal against ground targets and poorly armored vessels. Well armored vessels need a KE dependent weapon that can penetrate a vessel’s hull. Regardless of shell size, HE won’t be effective against a large amount of armor. It will just explode against the side of a vessel. Another type of shell that is carried can inject superheated plasma through an enemy ship’s armor. This is done with the hope of starting fires aboard an enemy ship. It is a little known fact that more vessels are lost to fire than flooding.

OK. No ranges for HE or APDS. I would suggest using APBC intsead of APDS, its generally just better for large shells.

The guns can fire at angles ranging from -2 degrees to 31.5 degrees over the horizon. If you want range, they should be able to fire at higher degrees. Guns generally have their range top out at 45 degrees so you don't need to go higher.

The use of UAVs equipped with laser designators and sensors which measure air conditions greatly increases the accuracy of the guns over long distances. (more detail in Aircraft section)

So now you have laser guided shells? Measuring air conditions doesn't really help if your shell has to travel 500km+ of air to hit a moving target. Its just not going to happen. UAVs for missiles, definately, definately yes. Guns... not so muhc.

The guns are reloaded by an automatic loader.

Three plus three is six.

The automated system is capable of working faster, but it means removing the blast hatches, which is NOT recommended.

ould you not just make it so the blast hatches open to allow shells to pass through then close when they've moved?

Missile Cells: While the Yerushalayim is not a missile ship,

Because...? IDF, its not 2004 anymore. We have moved on. Guns =! Supreme.

she does mount IDI 5th Generation VLS cells. She carries 256 cells in 4 groups of 64 (arranged 8x8) individual cells

How big are they? If they're not big, then thats hardly any VLS at all.

The Yerushalayim does not contain the large torpedo tubes other DNs carry. Um, what?

but it has been tested and has killed incoming torpedoes out to 60 meters

Any sources whatsoever this is possible IRL? I really do not believe that 'underwater railguns' could work at all, unless this thing is solidly 'PMT.'

Several layers of cylindrical tungsten rods and a sheet of kevlar are within this void. No. Tungsten is a crappy material to use for armour for various reasons, not least because it likes to set on fire.

The final layer of armor is composite armor not unlike the Chobham armor seen on tanks. It is effective against KE penetrators and shaped charges. This final layer is connected to the honeycomb structural support beams.

Why do have the anti-penetrator at the back? That makes no sense. If its already penetrated you have received any damage you are going to take. A penetrator is blown out as soon as the ship is penetrated, the speed is what keeps the missile or shell going. Therefore putting your anti-KE armour at the end just lowers your survivability; unless your first steel layers are purposefully weak, but that is really not a good idea because you assume that your KE layer will stop everything...

A separate layer of Chobham armor lines key spaces such as magazines.... Chobham is a tank armour, not a ship armour. A ship is not a tank. You cannot apply the same principles.

The trimarian design adds more passive defense to the vessel.

On the contrary. It massively increases the amoutn of space you have to armour and makes the ship more vulnerable to mission kills by allowing you to lose a significant portion of your balancing/stability.

Damage Control Systems:

OK, this part I like.

Unlike other SDNs of similar size, the Yerushalayim doesn’t carry a large air wing. No, we stopped doing that several years ago.

The primary use of the UAVs is for enhancing the targeting of the main guns by providing laser designators and data on atmospheric conditions. ...Laser guided shells. Have you ever considered how close a UAV needs to be to use laser guiding?

This is a high cost compared to other SDNs, but we see it as worth the price as this vessel has upgraded armor, damage control, computer, and command capabilities over any SDN afloat. No, it doesn't.

The use of materials such as titanium and tungsten have contributed to the great cost of this vessel. Um... no, not really. All steel >>> mixes of titanium/tungsten.[/QUOTE]

While I feel this could have been an outstanding design two years ago, it just doesn't fit with NS today.
IDF
21-11-2007, 23:49
snip

Thx for the input. I'll probably RP this vessel having serious problems. No follow-up vessels in this class have been ordered so a new ship should appear in about 20 NS years.

I will still use this vessel though and not decommission it as I can use it for many roles. Besides, I've thrown half a trillion into it.
Allanea
22-11-2007, 00:11
OOC: If you plan to decomission it, perhaps I can request IDI to sell them to me?
IDF
22-11-2007, 00:16
OOC: If you plan to decomission it, perhaps I can request IDI to sell them to me?

I can't sell a ship that contains so many classified technologies. The CIWS, RADAR, fire suppression systems, mainframes, etc can't be sold. The fire suppression system is too costly to remove to make sale worth it.

Besides, this is still an effective command and control unit and a good weapon for shore bombardments. I can always use it as a terror weapon against my foes.
Axis Nova
22-11-2007, 00:19
Just as a note, underwater railguns won't work since the water will just short them out.
Stevid
22-11-2007, 09:56
Just as a note, underwater railguns won't work since the water will just short them out.


Precisely, the great the great thing about railguns is the absense of chemical firing replaced magnetics and electronics. Last time I checked salt water and electricty doesn't work.

Scrap them and never look back, that's what escort ships are for.
Questers
22-11-2007, 19:00
Besides, this is still an effective command and control unit and a good weapon for shore bombardments. I can always use it as a terror weapon against my foes.

Good idea; I'm keeping a single superdreadnought in service just for that, and the radar height and capabilities they can give, as well as shore bombardments. I think I might refit mine to make it more of a command/electronic ship more than anything, though I dunno.
Allanea
22-11-2007, 21:50
OOC: Questers, do you have any surviving SDNs you don't need?