NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: I am looking to actually develop my naval forces from just an ad hoc collection of what I’ve bought from time to time and some RL naval equipment to something fully capable of defending my Empire and carrying out other necessary matters on the seas. I did such a thing in the past, when I had no naval development to speak of, but, being rather n00bish at the time, I went about it in the wrong manner, and now I seek to correct this.

My current list of ships (not entirely up to date, but sufficient) is as follows:
Dreadnaughts:
5x Overlord Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught
4x Atlantis Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught
6x Leviathan Class Trimaran Super Dreadnaught
8x Kraken Class Super Dreadnaught
Carriers:
16x Dweladelfia Class Super Dreadnought Carrier
1x Empire Class Carrier
1x Admiral Class Carrier
1x Valkyrie Class Helicopter Assault Carrier
Battleships:
50x Valiant Class Battleship
1x Lord Class Battleship
1x Orca Class Battleship
2x Chieftain Class Pocket Battleship
Cruisers:
60x CM-2 Storm Class Cruisers
4x Stingray Class Cruiser
4x Thunder Class Cruiser
Destroyers:
60x Zumwalt Class Destroyer
2x Flank Class Destroyer
2x Search Class Destroyer
3x LC-2 Intruder Class Landing Craft
Submarines:
12x Hunter Class Submarine
2x Nautilus Class Submarine
2x Dolphin Class Submarine
34x Seawolf Class Submarine

Obviously, I would prefer to use as much of my current navy as a basis as possible. I would also prefer to have a relatively simplified system with similar enough systems and equipment for everything to be compatible with minimal adjustment.

Simplicity and compatibility are important to my military, and my navy should be no exception.

For maintenance and updating, I plan to spend 30% of my national military budget on my navy (according to my custom division of my budget, that is 18.3% of my national budget, plus 30% of whatever tribute/gifts/extraordinary income I may receive), though I would be willing to go well over that for initial purchases.

Specifically, I am looking for a proper naval organization/layout and suggestions for the ships to fill these roles. Where I could purchase those that are unique to NS would also be helpful, and I have no problem with you shamelessly playing up your own storefront’s product so long as said product lives up to my needs.

While I'm no expert that this, I think that it would be of general agreement that the number of battleships should be far less than the number of destroyers and cruisers, since battleships need escorts by destroyers, cruisers, and aircraft carriers.

While I'm no expert that this, I think that it would be of general agreement that the number of battleships should be far less than the number of destroyers and cruisers, since battleships need escorts by destroyers, cruisers, and aircraft carriers.

That makes perfect sense, thank you.
This current layout is not the result of any planning, but just what I happened to purchase. As such, it makes perfect sense that there would be severe disparities between the proper balances of forces and the existing ones.

Also, seeing as to how your military budget is only around 2 trillion dollars higher than my own, and as to how I can only afford to maintain 2 super dreadnoughts, the number of super-dreads you have would deplete nearly ALL of your budget on only maintenance, not to mention the commissioning of the ships themselves, supplies for the crews, etc.

Well, what kind of navy are you looking for? Do you need a strong defence force, in which case super dreadnaughts and battleships serve little purpose? Do you require a powerful offensive force, in which case a battleship or arsenal ship clearing out an area for an invasion force landing is useful? Do you need an all-around good force, capable of projecting power abroad whilst keeping the enemy away from your land? That will determine your naval structure.

For my case, I'm more on the defensive, more interested in repelling superior forces than in invading foreign lands. Pretty much the only operations I'll run in foreign land these days are special ops or peacekeeping missions. I have mainly escorts (frigates, destroyers), attack submarines, arsenal ships, and light carriers; the specifics will come once Draftroom accepts my ships.

Also, seeing as to how your military budget is only around 2 trillion dollars higher than my own, and as to how I can only afford to maintain 2 super dreadnoughts, the number of super-dreads you have would deplete nearly ALL of your budget on only maintenance, not to mention the commissioning of the ships themselves, supplies for the crews, etc.

I see your point. They are indeed quite expensive to maintain, and I need to keep up the rest of my forces. Of course, I generally divide up my budget differently than the calculators do (I stick with their total amount, just divide it differently), but that does not change much, since my navy really gets just under a third of my total military budget.

I can help you with the redesign, but then you should be ready to ditch some ships and be quite reserved in future purchases [don't buy ten different ships for the same purpose].

Well, what kind of navy are you looking for? Do you need a strong defence force, in which case super dreadnaughts and battleships serve little purpose? Do you require a powerful offensive force, in which case a battleship or arsenal ship clearing out an area for an invasion force landing is useful? Do you need an all-around good force, capable of projecting power abroad whilst keeping the enemy away from your land? That will determine your naval structure.

For my case, I'm more on the defensive, more interested in repelling superior forces than in invading foreign lands. Pretty much the only operations I'll run in foreign land these days are special ops or peacekeeping missions. I have mainly escorts (frigates, destroyers), attack submarines, arsenal ships, and light carriers; the specifics will come once Draftroom accepts my ships.

My primary concern is defending my Empire. For my homeland alone, this is a relatively simple task, as there is really only one (albeit relatively lone) coastline suitable for most invading forces. However, with my colonial territory, particularly in Arterus, the situation is far more complex, as the territory is widely dispersed over many landmasses.

Of course, I also would like to maintain a suitable ability to apply my forces in non-defensive ways, particularly in support of my allies or in counter-offensive concerns. Thus I cannot fully devote myself to defensive naval forces.

The third option you listed is closest to my preferred navy.

If you coast is what I think it is, then I think you should focus more on a light naval force to patrol your waters. Then, build lots of shore batteries and the like instead of using battleships, which can be substituted by destroyer escorts and battleships mixed together. Also, based on your description, I think you should focus less on your navy and more on your anti-aircraft defences. Stoklomolvi has an utterly huge coastline, with ice blocking off the northern coast and the landmass itself separating the Western and Eastern Seas (think Soviet Union coast and size, only slightly larger). As such, focus more on air and ground rather than the navy.

I can sell you boats.

If you coast is what I think it is, then I think you should focus more on a light naval force to patrol your waters. Then, build lots of shore batteries and the like instead of using battleships, which can be substituted by destroyer escorts and battleships mixed together. Also, based on your description, I think you should focus less on your navy and more on your anti-aircraft defences. Stoklomolvi has an utterly huge coastline, with ice blocking off the northern coast and the landmass itself separating the Western and Eastern Seas (think Soviet Union coast and size, only slightly larger). As such, focus more on air and ground rather than the navy.

The defense of my homeland's coastline is far more land based, just as you described. My military has traditionally been more army-centered, and such defenses are second nature. However, defense of my colonial assets require far better naval forces and organization than I currently have.
Thus this thread. :)

I can sell you boats.

OOC: Hey, how's it going?

What sort of boats are you talking about?

I looked at the maps of your colonies, and I noticed that one of them was Denmark and the other was on the Gold Coast, while the last one was a huge chunk of land. I think that you could assign a fleet of ships to permanently defend the massive island chain colony, while you can have some ships patrol the coasts of Denmark and your African colony while constructing large shore battery and anti-aircraft cannon defences. That way, less strain is placed on your navy.

Errik that Arterus is moot. You don't have Arterus lands.

I looked at the maps of your colonies, and I noticed that one of them was Denmark and the other was on the Gold Coast, while the last one was a huge chunk of land. I think that you could assign a fleet of ships to permanently defend the massive island chain colony, while you can have some ships patrol the coasts of Denmark and your African colony while constructing large shore battery and anti-aircraft cannon defences. That way, less strain is placed on your navy.

That would be an efficient use of resources, relying more on my land strengths and less on my naval forces. That has been what I have been using thus far, but I am painfully aware of the issues a particularly navally powerful enemy could cause, and I need to have a more reliable navy.

Zukariaa;13205474']Errik that Arterus is moot. You don't have Arterus lands.

What?!

I looked over half of the posts, and apparently that thread is dead and/or dying profusely. At any rate, I think an air force would prevail over a large naval invasion fleet, since if you know about the sinking of the Japanese super battleship Yamato then you would know about the effectiveness of aircraft against ships. As such, your air force probably would be your best defence against ships.

Errik: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=535238&highlight=Arterus

I remade Arterus. You have nothing atm.

I looked over half of the posts, and apparently that thread is dead and/or dying profusely. At any rate, I think an air force would prevail over a large naval invasion fleet, since if you know about the sinking of the Japanese super battleship Yamato then you would know about the effectiveness of aircraft against ships. As such, your air force probably would be your best defence against ships.

My primary issue there is that my nation has invested quite a bit in taking and developing the colonies, much of Errikan history is in the area, and the resources it provides are very important to the Empire (the vast majority of our oil in particular comes from Arterus). So I have no issue with the thread closing down and dying, but the land ceasing to exist is understandably problematic.

Thus one of the primary uses of effective battle naval forces is providing effective and mobile bases for aircraft, which should do most of the fighting in naval battles. The mobility of naval forces allows for a far more efficient defense, as covering the whole coastlines effectively with stationary positions is, quite understandably, quite expensive.

No it would not.

Zukariaa;13205529']Errik: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=535238&highlight=Arterus

I remade Arterus. You have nothing atm.

I don't suppose it would be possible for old Arterus to continue to exist?

I don't suppose it would be possible for old Arterus to continue to exist?

It wouldn't, lol.

Zukariaa;13205536']No it would not.

It wouldn't, lol.

Damn. That certainly is troublesome. I will have to come up with a way of making up for that in my nation's history/economy.

Ground-launched cruise missiles are an excellent means of anti-ship force projection. Tomahawks have a 2500km range, and my LY300 Manticore MLRS can fire 14 of them... that's 1512 for a one brigade salvo, and I'm sure there would be a lot more than one brigade within 2500km.

Plus, if you were to buy LY300s, you get them half price.

Also working on the Longsword class supercapital with Isselmere, which can cough up several thousand anti-ship cruise missiles. Would enable you to scrap a goodly portion of the ships you field currently.

Ground-launched cruise missiles are an excellent means of anti-ship force projection. Tomahawks have a 2500km range, and my LY300 Manticore MLRS can fire 14 of them... that's 1512 for a one brigade salvo, and I'm sure there would be a lot more than one brigade within 2500km.

Plus, if you were to buy LY300s, you get them half price.

Also working on the Longsword class supercapital with Isselmere, which can cough up several thousand anti-ship cruise missiles. Would enable you to scrap a goodly portion of the ships you field currently.

Hello, my old friend.

That sounds quite enticing. I will visit your storefront.
When do you expect the Longsword to be finished?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyras
Ground-launched cruise missiles are an excellent means of anti-ship force projection. Tomahawks have a 2500km range, and my LY300 Manticore MLRS can fire 14 of them... that's 1512 for a one brigade salvo, and I'm sure there would be a lot more than one brigade within 2500km.

Plus, if you were to buy LY300s, you get them half price.

Also working on the Longsword class supercapital with Isselmere, which can cough up several thousand anti-ship cruise missiles. Would enable you to scrap a goodly portion of the ships you field currently.
Hello, my old friend.

That sounds quite enticing. I will visit your storefront.
When do you expect the Longsword to be finished?

The stats and weapons are ready, as are all the systems, etc. Currently we're just waiting on the lineart. Which, admittedly, one doesn't need, but I like being thorough.

The stats and weapons are ready, as are all the systems, etc. Currently we're just waiting on the lineart. Which, admittedly, one doesn't need, but I like being thorough.

I find it to be an important part when I am first looking it over. Besides, it certainly doesn't hurt to be thorough, as oftentimes the true strength is in the details.

I find it [lineart] to be an important part when I am first looking it [the item] over. Besides, it certainly doesn't hurt to be thorough, as oftentimes the true strength is in the details.

All true. Nothing gets onto my storefront without a half-way decent picture.

I'm off. Small children command my attention...

Well, Errikland, someone much more skilled in naval warfare and logistics has stopped by and has offered you a ship that will replace half of your anti-shipping needs. Good luck with your new ships, since I probably won't be needed any more.

Well, Errikland, someone much more skilled in naval warfare and logistics has stopped by and has offered you a ship that will replace half of your anti-shipping needs. Good luck with your new ships, since I probably won't be needed any more.

Thank you for your help. I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors, so long as those endeavors do not involve pointing weapons in my direction.

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That again.