NationStates Jolt Archive

For this thread: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=540504

Keep the OOC chatter in here please.

I sat we should make a wiki on NSwiki for this war.

I sat we should make a wiki on NSwiki for this war.

I suggest that you wait until it's all over, and there is some manner of a conclusion, before you attempt to document it on NS Wiki. I think a better idea in the meantime might be some kind of 'news' thread to document the events, and then attempt to collate them all neutrally in a Wiki article once the guns are silenced.

For a rough indication of the military forces of Twoyearslateistan, and what you'll be up against, AMF: Navy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan_Navy), Army and Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Suriname). Naturally, the equipment may be slightly below par and the exact specifications will differ, but Twoyearslateistan is prepared to deploy over half of these forces in its invasion of Automagfreek, which will occur as soon as the army comes back from its annual picnic.

I don't know... I have never actually RPed with AMF. I am curious to see how I could fall into the fold. I will figure out a way. Well For now I shall just read and wait.

Toori, maybe he is praising AMF because he can actually win versus BL, and not get beat down like you. And he doesn't mix FT and MT, which makes it hard to take you seriously.

A startling escalation. Will BL respond to this nuclear oblivion in kind, however? I find it hard to understand why he hasnt.

It would make sense to retaliate with a return of nuclear weapons. Maybe he is trying to gain support from the world to mobilize against AMF with news of their brutality.

Toori, maybe he is praising AMF because he can actually win versus BL, and not get beat down like you. And he doesn't mix FT and MT, which makes it hard to take you seriously.

You forgot to mention the fact that AMF can actually write a post worth reading, amirite?

A startling escalation. Will BL respond to this nuclear oblivion in kind, however? I find it hard to understand why he hasnt.

He doesn't have nukes, that's why.

Damn. I wish I could join this but Red Tide is holding my military. I might be able to participate diplomatically. Perhaps an emergency meeting should be called?

Just a few questions.

1) BL, would your government have asked by now for the Caelapene fleet from the Battle of Invercargill to leave Londinian territory? If not, I haven't otherwise moved them and they would still be at Invercargill Harbor.

2) AMF, did your nuclear strike hit Invercargill? If so, I'd like permission to have moved parts of my fleet out of the harbor before the nukes reached them, since I've only just seen this thread.

3) Do either AMF or BL object to me using tungsten rods? I've been developing my KINEBOM system for a little while, and currently the most powerful rod I have is equivalent to 18 kt TNT.

I love RODS!

Toori, maybe he is praising AMF because he can actually win versus BL, and not get beat down like you. And he doesn't mix FT and MT, which makes it hard to take you seriously.

Im not talking about the shit that happened way back at the beginning of the year, Im talking about recently within the last three months. Yeah, I admit, I was new, and thought I was a pimp shiz badass that could wipe anyone with my tech, cause I didn't read the stickies, and one of my friends that had supposedly been on Int. Inc. said that it was ok to mix that stuff. I appologise for being a jackass n00b, and raising a hissy fit for not getting my way. I have learned from it, and have moved on.


Oh, yes, that's obviously all my fault. Anyway, I cheer on anyone kicking BL in the arse.

I wasn't blaming anything on you, and so do I.

I can see the IC thread is just chock full of good RP. :rolleyes:

I can see the IC thread is just chock full of good RP. :rolleyes:

Gotta agree.

And an obligatory :rolleyes: .

Gotta agree.

And an obligatory :rolleyes: .

And a tertiary :rolleyes:

Seriously. Ya'll wanna make crapass posts and argue with other people, make a new freaking thread.

Okay, quick rundown:

Vetalian forces are mobilizing for total war. We've sent 7 million troops to defend BL's colonies against the various non-AMF nations trying to attack him, and a remaining 3 million have been sent to reinforce our colonies.

The remainder of our armed forces are at home and many have yet to be called up. It will take several months for our entire defense industry to really be up and running.

I also listed my colonies and their populations (so I can calculate the military units available on the islands themselves), and I do have a map of Vetalia if it is needed. Generally, our colonies are small, dense cities and so any combat for them would be dense urban fighting. This gives us a huge advantage over land forces, but does make us vulnerable to naval bombardment.

i dont think it is neccesary to fill the IC thread with bravado and feather-ruffling, perhaps a new thread should be made for that.

i dont think it is neccesary to fill the IC thread with bravado and feather-ruffling, perhaps a new thread should be made for that.

Naaa. I don't think we need a whole new thread just meant for dissing other nations...>.>

Naaa. I don't think we need a whole new thread just meant for dissing other nations...>.>


As long as it's not cluttering BL's/my war thread, I don't care where you post it.

AMF, check my post a page back or so.

AMF, check my post a page back or so.


I'm not posting anything more until BL gets a chance to reply.

Thanks to AMF for waiting up. Too many posts to read, and most of them rubbish. Hataria/Ryou, you are on permanent ignore. Stay out of my threads. I would sincerely appreciate it if the IC thread would stop having infinite amounts of n00bs who simply post "Yay AMF for killing BL!". It's irritating and pointless. I'll have an IC post shortly.

Okay, newbs and noobs, if you're going to attempt to hit BL, and aren't from Gholgoth or whatever, stop posting. We'll have a secondary war thread up to prevent further clutter that has disgraced the posters and the main thread. Act like professionals.

And, Toori, go away. I've already ignored you for mixing FT and MT, and I'm ignoring you once more now for magically conjuring fleets near my colonies. Just saying "Ooh, we're going to attack a colony!" doesn't count.

EDIT: LISTEN UP, PEOPLE! I will not tolerate any postings in the IC thread along the lines of, "Yay let's fuck BL over!" Make your own damn threads, or, better yet, wait until AMF and I finish our RP.

And, Toori, go away. I've already ignored you for mixing FT and MT, and I'm ignoring you once more now for magically conjuring fleets near my colonies. Just saying "Ooh, we're going to attack a colony!" doesn't count.

EDIT: LISTEN UP, PEOPLE! I will not tolerate any postings in the IC thread along the lines of, "Yay let's fuck BL over!" Make your own damn threads, or, better yet, wait until AMF and I finish our RP.

What the fuck are you talking about?! Like I told you and everyone else here, that MT FT shit was a long time ago! I never said, or did any 'magically conjuring' of anything, so I don't know what the fuck your talking about. And if you don't want anyone else to be in your war, they why the fuck did you put [OPEN...] on the title?!

What the fuck are you talking about?! Like I told you and everyone else here, that MT FT shit was a long time ago! I never said, or did any 'magically conjuring' of anything, so I don't know what the fuck your talking about. And if you don't want anyone else to be in your war, they why the fuck did you put [OPEN...] on the title?!

It's open to people who will be directly participating in the thread. It is not open to people who want to wage separate wars with me. I consider it "magically conjuring" because I was not told of this attack on Berincia prior to this, simply an attack on a colony; my radar systems are powerful enough that they should have detected you long before you arrived at that point. I don't care how long ago the MT/FT "shit" was, you're still on ignore.

It's open to people who will be directly participating in the thread. It is not open to people who want to wage separate wars with me. I consider it "magically conjuring" because I was not told of this attack on Berincia prior to this, simply an attack on a colony; my radar systems are powerful enough that they should have detected you long before you arrived at that point. I don't care how long ago the MT/FT "shit" was, you're still on ignore.

Open means open. If your intentions were specific, then you should have specified them in the title, or in the first post. And as far as you not being told about an attack on Berincia prior to this, thats because there was no attack on Berincia prior to this. I waited fairly for you to come back online and post out of decency. Then I posted so you could read and have your turn. Same with Cali. And yes, no shit, everyones radar systems are always powerfull enough to detect everything, then just freakin post that in your counter instead of raising a hissy fit saying it isn't fair. And frankly, I don't care if you don't care. Whenever you went around invading the countries you did, for whatever reasons, they never ignored you. Why is that? Hmm... maybe its because its a real jackass and a cowardly thing to do, reguardless of whether or not they thought you were a noob. And if I were in your shoes, and you were trying to attack me, and I ignored you, I would be the jackass, cause reguard of what I might think of you, my personal oppinion of you OOC doesn't belong on Nationstates.

Open means open to everyone until otherwise notified. Shall I post lists of people I don't want to RP with in each of my threads?

You, earlier, prefaced your attack by saying you were mobilizing against a colony - this is the normal forewarning I would have expected. Too bad you didn't specify which one.

Even if I were to accept your attack on Berincia legit, you're still on ignore. Stop arguing about it, because continuing to do so makes it worse.

Shouldn't we make another thread for the invasion of BL's colonies?

Shouldn't we make another thread for the invasion of BL's colonies?

Yes, Greal. That's what I've been trying to say for the past few hours.

Toori, me and BL could have taken careers as OOC lawyers after Laquasa Isle/Nova Aquaria/all his other accounts. As starter of the thread, he has ultimate authority over it, and he doesn't want you in. So, stop complaining about it and find something else to do.

I would say we should begin splitting up the threads now to keep things under control. If anyone is planning to move on Berincia, start the thread and we can begin from where my movements left off.

I can make the thread, though I'm not invading right now, does anyone object to this?

I can make the thread, though I'm not invading right now, does anyone object to this?

Yes. Let someone who's invading make the thread.

I can make the thread, though I'm not invading right now, does anyone object to this?

BL's not on, so I can't really say for sure. You might want to wait, or maybe create the thread and bump it when he comes back.

Toori, me and BL could have taken careers as OOC lawyers after Laquasa Isle/Nova Aquaria/all his other accounts. As starter of the thread, he has ultimate authority over it, and he doesn't want you in. So, stop complaining about it and find something else to do.


He has 50% of that authority, the rest lies with AMF since he is 50% of the original and main RP. So yeah, I have something better I could be doing, but I wasn't the one complaining about anything in the first place. Stop trying to fuck with everyone else, and maybe people won't get all giddy when someone tries to kick your ass.

He has 50% of that authority, the rest lies with AMF since he is 50% of the original and main RP. So yeah, I have something better I could be doing, but I wasn't the one complaining about anything in the first place. Stop trying to fuck with everyone else, and maybe people won't get all giddy when someone tries to kick your ass.

Actually, BL made the thread, he can technically allow whoever he wants and disallow those he doesn't. And if BL is ignoring you, than your point is moot anyways.

The only person acting like a noob here (as you so graciously called BL) is you.

OOC: I am pulling out of this, BL, disregard my attack, it never happened.However, I would like to base some units up in Berencia to defend my nation and to make myself feel better..

If nobody objects, I'd like to RP some evacing of civilians from those cities AMF hasn't glassed yet. ICly my government hates watching a nation get destroyed, even if said nation has done the same thing itself.

OOC: I am pulling out of this, BL, disregard my attack, it never happened.However, I would like to base some units up in Berencia to defend my nation and to make myself feel better..

No. Not happening.

CP: Sure, go ahead. You'd want to start with Argyll and Glascovia and move them to Palæstina.

Thanks. I'm going to try to catch AMF on IRC when I get home from school and ask him if he'd pwn me for trying it. I'd prefer to remain non-glassed until at least 1 billion.

I'll be deploying naval forces to shield the main regional landmass, and too launch evacuations too. I'll put an IC post up later though as ive got sleep and uni to do before that.

I'm curious about what the tech level is. Modern, Post Modern, some future tech? I'm interested in joining, but don't want to be considered a noob because I'm fielding proto-type powered armor units and Future Warrior-esque troop equipment. :)

Mt/pmt

Alright, thanks. *makes note "Leave phased plasma rifles home" ;)

I'm curious about what the tech level is. Modern, Post Modern, some future tech? I'm interested in joining, but don't want to be considered a noob because I'm fielding proto-type powered armor units and Future Warrior-esque troop equipment. :)



Question: why the need to join this RP? You only have 2 posts, so obviously this conflict doesn't pertain to you. I'm curious because everybody and their grandmother is being an opportunist and inserting themselves into this RP, which is only serving to clog it up.

Go BL!

No offense, AMF, but you disbanded EVIL =D

How does it not pertain to my nation? AMF just nuked another country. On a geopolitical scale, wouldn't that make most countries slightly nervous and have cause for comment and response?

I know I have very little post history, but how am I suppose to increase that if I don't interact with the rest of the community? I understand the effects of multiple people joining a thread, but then you shouldn't have the thread labeled as open if you don't wish for multiple people to insert themselves. As to why I'm interested; because from what I've seen for the most part its good RP and looked like a fun thread, and isn't that the point?

I simply was trying to make sure I didn't ruin the RP by having unreasonable technologies for the tech level, but if this is your response, then I see little point in joining an RP where I'm seen as unwanted.

How does it not pertain to my nation? AMF just nuked another country. On a geopolitical scale, wouldn't that make most countries slightly nervous and have cause for comment and response?

I know I have very little post history, but how am I suppose to increase that if I don't interact with the rest of the community? I understand the effects of multiple people joining a thread, but then you shouldn't have the thread labeled as open if you don't wish for multiple people to insert themselves. As to why I'm interested; because from what I've seen for the most part its good RP and looked like a fun thread, and isn't that the point?

I simply was trying to make sure I didn't ruin the RP by having unreasonable technologies for the tech level, but if this is your response, then I see little point in joining an RP where I'm seen as unwanted.

Even if you couldn't ignore it away (which everyone else not involved is currently doing, whether actively or no), you wouldn't be able to field any significant force to fight on either side, regardless of what others may be doing.

At nine million persons, given a rough estimate of 10 soldiers per 1000 population, you have 90,000 soldiers serving in your armed forces, including reserves and PM units. That's assuming you run on a volunteer system; running under a conscript system, you could, depending on your age structure and laws, have anywhere in the area between 225,000 to 2 million—again, counting total reserves and, if applicable, PM units.

Even assuming that there is a massive disparity between the /1000 ratios, and skewing it in your favour, BL still has ten times the amount of troops that you do. AMF has a considerably higher total population, at a total population of 9.85 billion, 7.584 billion more than BL.

It's not my place to deny you access to this thread, as I am not affiliated with it, but you should be aware of the force differences between the nations in question before becoming involved.

How does it not pertain to my nation? AMF just nuked another country. On a geopolitical scale, wouldn't that make most countries slightly nervous and have cause for comment and response?


This is NS. BL launched a few gigatons at some random nation a while back - North Calaveras, Greal, someone like that - and half the NS world didn't bat an eyelid.

To AMF, BL: Mind if I condemn AMF's attack and offer to take in Londinian citizens from the non-glassed cities, or are you good for humanitarian aid? After our evacuation of one of the nations I think BL glassed, I'm formulating a procedure for deradiation of large numbers of people and would like to try it out.

I understand that nuclear warfare is more common place in NS, but I highly doubt that leaders of nations would get to the point of "Oh look, another country got nuked, ho hum.", even if they didn't say anything.

And I understand that there are massive force differences. I don't envision my small nation can go toe-to-toe with either BL or AMF, but that doesn't stop them from offering their services in any fashion as a political gesture, or denouncing the actions taking place.

As to attacking either one, a mosquito attacking a human still is a distraction, and could divert attention from their ally. Or perhaps my nation could offer their services in the form of recon and guerrilla warfare, or some logistical support, freeing up however small portion of resources of either nation to focus more fully on their opponent. Simply because the contribution is small doesn't mean it lacks importance or impact.

But I think its fairly clear that my presence would be unwanted, so like I said earlier, there is little point in in me posting.

Question: why the need to join this RP? You only have 2 posts, so obviously this conflict doesn't pertain to you. I'm curious because everybody and their grandmother is being an opportunist and inserting themselves into this RP, which is only serving to clog it up.

I am helpping you mainly, to keep the Londinians from attacking you from their Colonies.

Just a few questions.

1) BL, would your government have asked by now for the Caelapene fleet from the Battle of Invercargill to leave Londinian territory? If not, I haven't otherwise moved them and they would still be at Invercargill Harbor.

2) AMF, did your nuclear strike hit Invercargill? If so, I'd like permission to have moved parts of my fleet out of the harbor before the nukes reached them, since I've only just seen this thread.

3) Do either AMF or BL object to me using tungsten rods? I've been developing my KINEBOM system for a little while, and currently the most powerful rod I have is equivalent to 18 kt TNT..

2) AMF, did your nuclear strike hit Invercargill? If so, I'd like permission to have moved parts of my fleet out of the harbor before the nukes reached them, since I've only just seen this thread.

It's your assets, you can have them/move them wherever.

3) Do either AMF or BL object to me using tungsten rods? I've been developing my KINEBOM system for a little while, and currently the most powerful rod I have is equivalent to 18 kt TNT.

Any sort of military strike would be responded to appropriately.

I am helpping you mainly, to keep the Londinians from attacking you from their Colonies.

I don't really need help.

Yea, well, even as long as I've been on here I still can't get enough of Automagfreek's RP's and stuffs....gives me nightmares sometimes thinking what would happen if I got on the bad side of things. Anyways, going on.

BL: you still have Sumatripte and I havent made any attempts to retake it. Just letting you know, since i didnt see it on the list of colonies where you are sending refugees. If there is a good reason for that, ignore this.

BL: you still have Sumatripte and I havent made any attempts to retake it. Just letting you know, since i didnt see it on the list of colonies where you are sending refugees. If there is a good reason for that, ignore this.

Thanks for reminding me of it, but due to its small size and distance from Victoria (the mainland), it isn't very useful.

Hrm... I'm gonna call bullshit on quite a bit of this here on grounds of technical infeasibility (/possible ignorance or misinformation)/ (If I dare call it this, but it is what it seems) GodMod.

Let's first take a look at the defenses post.

First line of defenses: Ok, somewhat feasible, they'd have to be extremely slow firing, extremely expensive and they'd only work outside the atmosphere, so Ok, sure, they'd intercept maybe about 80% of the missiles that they fired at... (given murphy's law, and that there are slight miscalculations)

Second Line: By far the least BS that I've seen, and most feasible, but again, not perfect. (Better system would have been Missiles+kinetic systems such as Brilliant Pebbles, but too late.)

Third Line: Ok, maybe one laser, but 3? Sorry, that's out of the question. The proposed systems were so long that it took a whole 747 to carry just one laser, not to mention the power requirements would be HORRENDOUS. Even then, the Jets'd have to have been close to the missiles in order to hit them thanks to atmospheric interference, which keeps the range of lasers to about.... 5-10Km if I remember right. Then there's the question of how they wouldn't have gotten shot down by Freekish Air Defenses if they had to be that close. Much Less ineffective than you claim.

Fourth Line: Complete Failure. If there had been an easy way to intercept artillery, then it would've been used on every ship that was produced since the ideas conception. Missiles Vs. Artillery=fail (excluding blowing it off course, which would still result in detonation or extreme fallout). CIWS Vs. Artillery= Fail (once again, maybe slightly move its path, but still not stop detonation).

Even then, you completely ignore the Cruise missile launches (Unless you intended your first three lines of defense to take care of, all of which would have been useless.), which would severely tax your defense system in terms of attempting to find the stealth cruise missiles, and being able to track/intercept the high-speed ones overshadowing the stealth ones, most likely taking the interest of the defense systems operators, making the stealthy ones even more effective.

Now, that's just a start. You manage to completely ignore the fact that a submarine just self detonated 20 nuclear SLBMs in the middle of your "fleet" and the overpressure of which would have been enough to capsize every ship, suck out the oxygen from most, and break quite a few ships in half.

At your "Radiation destroying nanobots": once again, fail within the next 25-30 year timeframe, maybe in 50 for the use of nanobots, and longer then for the absorption of radiation and fallout.

To the effect of the nukes. With each one that strikes, and detonates, your defensive response for that area is severely decreased, due to the shockwave disabling most, the firestorm destroying more, and the winds and EMPs disabling even more, making each successive attack more and more effective.

With that in mind: there's no way that there'd be much left of any forces in the nearby region, let alone modern communication to let them know to attack.

THEN: There's the, oh... Gigaton Nuke (you know... a billion tons of TNT? 2 Trillion pounds of it?) that went off, filled with cobalt for enhanced radiation? The destructive shockwave of that thing, in which 98% of anything living would be killed (Before the firestorm) within a freakin... 260 mile radius (Rough estimates based off of a 25 megaton nuke, but it does the job) and then within a 430 mile radius anything not specifically designed to withstand a nuclear blast would be destroyed (and those that were designed to withstand a blast would probably be severely damaged) and about 50% would be dead from just the shockwave (not including glass shattering and flying or debris).

And that's before getting to your "air armada" whatever that is, and how it would still be able to move, thanks to the shockwave extending a good 1200 miles in all directions, shattering the glass within it, and probably damaging most exposed aircraft.

I strongly suggest you rework your casualties and how your evacuations are proceeding. I'm surprised AMF is still RPing this after dealing with all that Bullshit. I'd have left long ago.

I apologize for the missile defences; I'm not an expert in ABM technology, not by a long shot. But, in regards to the GT nuke detonation, I personally calculated the blast, and, considering that it blew up *underground*, it did plenty of damage. It literally vapourized the entire island on which it was situated, which was not small by far. As for the 'air armada', how long does a shockwave last, and how effective is a shockwave when it is: 1) underground, and 2) horribly distant from the cities I'm going to. Even if we assume that the shockwave extends all the way out by 1200 km, it still doesn't touch most major cities.

The gigaton blast aside, there's little to nothing you can do about the nuclear artillery. And considering the guns were re-directing their aim after each shot and firing off auto-loading rounds every few seconds, your defenses in said areas would be completely compromised. Suffice it to say that most to all of the artillery would likely have hit.

Now the cruise missiles, as Illior said, would likely have had a much greater impact than what you RP'd. The SRBM's and ICBM's that were fired would likely draw your attention, allowing the stealthier cruise missiles to reach the further points on your mainland and wreak serious havok. AMF's attack could easily have hit every corner of your nation.

And nevermind that submarines outside your waters were firing SLBM's at you...which are very difficult to intercept. With your defenses already compromised, your ability to defeat the SLBM's would, again, be severely depleted.

As far as the gigaton nuke goes, I doubt being a little ways underground would effect THAT much of the blast. Considering the force at which volcanoes erupt and spread destruction, I think that there would still be serious damage to a very wide area. All your ships blockading the base would likely be lost from the sheer force.

In short, you've seriously downplayed the damage from this attack to the point of near absurdity. I am shocked that this RP is still continuing, because by rights your nation should be completely screwed not only from the blasts themselves, but the INTENSE fallout from so many salted (cobalt) nuclear devices. Not to mention a good deal of your power grids and anything in the air at the time would be disabled from EMP.

Did I say I wasn't screwed? No, by no means. I'm aware that I'm screwed, very much so. I ought to have placed in the fact that my ships were destroyed, which I will proceed to do. I still believe, though, that the nuclear artillery had a much smaller impact than you believe, simply because it doesn't have the range to hit anything important.

About EMP, though: It's only really effective at high altitudes. With the strikes AMF's been posting, the blasts have either been underground or at the surface, highly limiting their capacity.

Thanks for reminding me of it, but due to its small size and distance from Victoria (the mainland), it isn't very useful.

you could still probably cram about a million refugees into it, and lease some nearby land from my govt.

but you are right, it is rather tiny and unimportant.

Did I say I wasn't screwed? No, by no means. I'm aware that I'm screwed, very much so. I ought to have placed in the fact that my ships were destroyed, which I will proceed to do. I still believe, though, that the nuclear artillery had a much smaller impact than you believe, simply because it doesn't have the range to hit anything important.

You're thinking too one dimensionally. The nuclear artillery allows AMF to open up a wide area around the base so that the longer range weaponry can proceed further out without being shot down.

For example, if all your defenses and assorted systems in a say, 150 to 200 mile radius are disabled, then longer range missiles and such can travel said distance unopposed. Your defenses outside the artillery stike zones will have to work extra hard to stop what's not being stopped in the immediate vicinity of the base. As I said before about the cruise missiles and SRBM's, it's unlikely that you'd be able to get all of them considering what's happening.

And don't forget that every time a nuclear weapon detonates, your ability to keep fending off subsequent attacks is degraded, as Illior said. All it takes is one or two nuclear detonations to open up gaps that allow more nukes to travel further and detonate.

And again, you're ignoring the impact of the SLBM's that were fired from his submarines. Those are high megaton weapons that can severely harm large areas, considering they are MIRV'd weapons.

I'm not involved in this in anyway but its rather a question from something someone brought up before. How did AMF disband EVIL? I wasen't around for that and I'd like to read up on some history that lead up to this.

Hrm...

A one gigaton nuke underground... can someone say an opening of a new continental fault in BL?

Seriously though, the earth's crust would crack with the force of that blast if it was deep enough. I'm pretty sure that it was close enough to the surface to be comparable to what I mentioned, and if anything it might reduce the damaging shockwave by a hundred miles and make the fallout 3-5X worse.

He basically told BL that if he didnt disband it, AMF would rape him like no tomorrow. It was either the alliance or BL. Naturally, he chose to preserve himself, although he fought for the right to have the alliance as much as he could.

do you have that thread saved anywhere? I'd like to read it.

I'll look it up tomorrow and post it here for you.

Now, back to your war. I will be kinda helping you for a bit, BL, by declaring war on AMF and drawing some of his forces away. That won't last long and I will be defeated, as part of my plan to learn MT under AMF's tutelage, so enjoy it while you can. =P

I will.

Also, I expanded the effects of AMF's initial barrage and added in naval losses.

I am aware of the force differences. However, should that bar my nation from doing anything? It may be small, but does that mean they can't offer their services as a political gesture? And even though my military might isn't as large, its how you use it that counts just as much.

What political motivation would that be? You aren't affiliated with either side.

Even if my armed forces couldn't hope to defeat either of the two major players, they would still be something to consider, and diverting some attention away from whomever they're aiding. Perhaps Kaladria could provide some aid in the form of intelligence services or logistic aid, freeing up however small resources that could be used for other roles. Just because the contributions may be small, doesn't mean they're without importance or impact.

No, they wouldn't be something to consider; that was the whole point of my litany of numbers. At best, it would be a tenth the size of BL's military—a considerably professional one, at that—against AMF, it would be, at worst (well, for him), one-fiftieth the size. There is a point at which quality is simply irrelevant, and since we're dealing with two first-world militaries duking it out, the point becomes all the more pungent. The sheer size of the conflict would equate your military to, comparatively, a battalion-sized unit that just kind of kicked around in the corps' rear.

Georgia (you may have known it earlier as 'Soviet Georgia', to differentiate it from the US state) deployed troops to Iraq, but did anyone notice them? Not at all.

I understand that nuclear warfare is more common place in NS, but I highly doubt that leaders of nations would get to the point of "Oh look, another country got nuked, ho hum.", even if they didn't say anything.

Happens all the time, actually. Welcome to II, where there is no serious action taken against a government that puts people into a blender and feeds them to the formerly-living's mother and father.

And I understand that there are massive force differences. I don't envision my small nation can go toe-to-toe with either BL or AMF, but that doesn't stop them from offering their services in any fashion as a political gesture, or denouncing the actions taking place.

As to attacking either one, a mosquito attacking a human still is a distraction, and could divert attention from their ally. Or perhaps my nation could offer their services in the form of recon and guerrilla warfare, or some logistical support, freeing up however small portion of resources of either nation to focus more fully on their opponent. Simply because the contribution is small doesn't mean it lacks importance or impact.

The point is that both sides are quite able to take care of themselves, and, not to make an effort at insulting you, especially when compared to your nation. There is literally nothing that you can do that more troops on either side cannot do just as well or better. A token show of support is just that: a token.

But I think its fairly clear that my presence would be unwanted, so like I said earlier, there is little point in in me posting.

That's a fairly contradictory statement, but all right. See you about.

Take a look at what Tanaara posted in the active thread- that information is of much smaller tonnage - And with that massive an explosion the fact that it was sub ground isn't going to lessen its effects that much - I don't think any of your planes are flight worthy, and ships at sea had to deal with...any one with in about 200 miles of this ( radius ) is either dead or walking dead.

BL, just how big are you? Germany sized, USA sized, Russia sized?

Be nice to know that.

BL, just how big are you? Germany sized, USA sized, Russia sized?

Be nice to know that.

If I remember correctly, he's the size of Europe. But I could be wrong, so don't take my word for it.

I've never figured out the actual square area, but saying BL is the size of Europe is a good start. This (http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z259/pertinax201/Maps/BLmapC.png) is my map; 1 mm equals 10 km, so you can figure out distances for yourselves.

Map is even better. Give me something tangible to base plans on.

Map is even better. Give me something tangible to base plans on.

By the way, where is your first fleet, exactly?

By the way, where is your first fleet, exactly?

Heading on the most direct course for the best landing beaches near the fort that AMF just toasted. Still well aways from entering range of land.

That area is going to be radioactive slag..AMF detonated what equates to 20 Tsar bombs at that fort, if my maths are correct..

They aren't going to land troops there, but it's as good a direction as any to get into position for Naval operations. Unless fallout is blowing offshore to that area, in which case they'd alter course to avoid the worst of it.

And as for this:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13143732&postcount=91

I've taken the liberty of doing the math with three separate plotted points(the minimum needed to check that a line is indeed straight) and have used this line to extrapolate the effect of the gigaton blast. Which was simpler than I thought. I merely had to estimate another decimal point to increase by 1000 again.

1 ton(psi to miles):

15: 0.02
5: 0.03
2: 0.05
1: 0.07
0.25: 0.19
0.1: 0.38

1 kiloton(same):

15: 0.15
5: 0.28
2: 0.49
1: 0.73
0.25: 1.86
0.1: 3.81

1 megaton:

15: 1.53
5: 2.81
2: 4.92
1: 7.25
0.25: 18.6
0.1: 38.1

Note that each increase simply moves the decimal once to the right. Using the standard rules of rounding, I came up with this.

1 gigaton:

15psi: 15.34 miles
5psi: 28.14 miles
2psi: 49.24 miles
1psi: 72.54 miles
0.25 psi: 186.4 miles
0.1 psi: 381.4 miles

In terms of pressure waves, this weapon seems to have reached well beyond the point of being useful. The damage will HAVE to occur through other means. Meaning shockwaves through the planet itself. Being that the blast would have some of it's energy shoved straight into the ground, it will have the effect of an 8.0 earthquake.

Ah, I see. I stand corrected then *would by lying if he claimed to be any sort of tech expert*:)

BL, in regards to Olmedreca, did you forget the forces that Vetalia, (I think Mal), and I sent to defend your colonies?

BL, in regards to Olmedreca, did you forget the forces that Vetalia, (I think Mal), and I sent to defend your colonies?

IIRC, Vet sent most of his forces to the Middle East. Regardless, though, the proconsuls are a bit more squeamish than the Commonwealth government.

My apologies to everyone, I've been busy with work. I'll be available all day for most of this coming week, so I'll finish the necessary posts up immediately.

Thanks to AMF for waiting up. Too many posts to read, and most of them rubbish. Hataria/Ryou, you are on permanent ignore. Stay out of my threads. I would sincerely appreciate it if the IC thread would stop having infinite amounts of n00bs who simply post "Yay AMF for killing BL!". It's irritating and pointless. I'll have an IC post shortly.

that is just plain N00bish of you, I made a good post and have been since this started.

IIRC, Vet sent most of his forces to the Middle East. Regardless, though, the proconsuls are a bit more squeamish than the Commonwealth government.

For reference:

I send 1 million troops and 200-400 ships to every colony, and 2 million/400 to the Middle East and 2 million/400 to Berincia. If colonies are transferred, say to Olmedreca for example, I'd probably reroute my forces to other targets since the area is no longer a threatened target.

that is just plain N00bish of you, I made a good post and have been since this started.

I have the right to ignore whomever I wish. Feel free to do the same to me, if it makes you feel better.

For reference:

I send 1 million troops and 200-400 ships to every colony, and 2 million/400 to the Middle East and 2 million/400 to Berincia. If colonies are transferred, say to Olmedreca for example, I'd probably reroute my forces to other targets since the area is no longer a threatened target.

What part of the Middle East, exactly? I have major African holdings... so this could prove interesting.

Crimmond map:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9696/worldmapaho9.gif

What part of the Middle East, exactly? I have major African holdings... so this could prove interesting.

Crimmond map:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9696/worldmapaho9.gif

Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. Though I'd really, really prefer to keep this to Victoria, to be honest. I'd like to be able to still RP - if only with hordes of refugees - at the end of everything.

Okay, a quick question. The Crimm RPed my counterattack as successful, but AMF has also launched missile defenses to counter them.

Should we compromise and perhaps say a smaller fraction than previously estimated made it through to inflict damage? Even 50 biological ICBMs, or 10% of the total launch, would be necessary to cause the intended casualties, so it would be consistent with both AMF and Crimm's RPs of the attack.

However, I'm open to suggestions.

What part of the Middle East, exactly? I have major African holdings... so this could prove interesting.

Crimmond map:
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9696/worldmapaho9.gif

Actually, Crimm, Vetalia is set in a West African climate zone, and on a real world map I've always had our nation placed there. For the purposes of the RP, we could fight campaigns in the area for control of the strategic entryways in to the Middle East.

I have the right to ignore whomever I wish. Feel free to do the same to me, if it makes you feel better.

That is not a reason for Perm-Iggy. I should Ignore you, but that didn't stop you from destroying Hataria and bribeing Fris into Delateing me with out reason.

I guess Reason was never your strong sute.

Okay, a quick question. The Crimm RPed my counterattack as successful, but AMF has also launched missile defenses to counter them.

Should we compromise and perhaps say a smaller fraction than previously estimated made it through to inflict damage? Even 50 biological ICBMs, or 10% of the total launch, would be necessary to cause the intended casualties, so it would be consistent with both AMF and Crimm's RPs of the attack.

However, I'm open to suggestions.

It's entirely up to Crimmond, since it's his territory. I was merely doing my part per the Gholgoth defense network, and would definately asume the rest of the regional defenders would fire off what they could to minimize the attack.

It's entirely up to Crimmond, since it's his territory. I was merely doing my part per the Gholgoth defense network, and would definately asume the rest of the regional defenders would fire off what they could to minimize the attack.

Okay, I just wanted to make sure given how tightly coordinated Gholgoth defenses are.

It is quite likely that as a Gholgoth Nation, I will be posting support for Crimmond. This support will initially involve Humanitarian Aid toward containing the biological agents in his homeland, treating the injured and dieing, as well as helping with those sailors and soldiers suffering from radiation poising. Aid will likely be primarily be administered by military personnel. However, civilian aid workers will definitely be present.

You're more likely to see the aftermath of the attack and the horrific effects of biological warfare than any actual epidemic in progress. However, there is the risk it will spread, and your humanitarian aid will definitely have to work to contain it in the event that it does spread...you'll need top-notch biosafety measures to ensure this does not happen.

For reference, the agents used:

-Marburg virus, Type U
-Ebola virus, Zaire strain
-Hemorrhagic smallpox

Since this is a MT/PMT borderline RP, I assume there are widely available methods of containing these viruses and vaccines for them, if not these exact strains than similar ones that would provide protection. Vetalian bioengineering is pretty advanced, so these viruses have been engineered to boost mortality and increase their virulence to the point where they will spread like wildfire but also disappear quickly due to their sheer rate of infection killing off hosts before they can reproduce in sizable quantities.

I was inspired by the sweating sickness in 15th century Europe when designing the agents used in the attack, so this may help you craft a better response to the strike.

That is not a reason for Perm-Iggy. I should Ignore you, but that didn't stop you from destroying Hataria and bribeing Fris into Delateing me with out reason.

I guess Reason was never your strong sute.

Actually, although the practice itself is distasteful, he can actually ignore anyone he wants. It's called freeform, and he's also the one who made the thread, so he has effective mod powers over it.

Also, stop blaming people for what happened with Fris. You know why you were deleted. Stop throwing mud at people.

Okay, a quick question. The Crimm RPed my counterattack as successful, but AMF has also launched missile defenses to counter them.

Should we compromise and perhaps say a smaller fraction than previously estimated made it through to inflict damage? Even 50 biological ICBMs, or 10% of the total launch, would be necessary to cause the intended casualties, so it would be consistent with both AMF and Crimm's RPs of the attack.

However, I'm open to suggestions.

I'd say 15% would be good.

Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, and Syria. Though I'd really, really prefer to keep this to Victoria, to be honest. I'd like to be able to still RP - if only with hordes of refugees - at the end of everything.

Not a problem, actually. The Empire tries to forget that the Middle East exists most of the time. The oil there isn't worth the trouble of the religious wars.

Actually, Crimm, Vetalia is set in a West African climate zone, and on a real world map I've always had our nation placed there. For the purposes of the RP, we could fight campaigns in the area for control of the strategic entryways in to the Middle East.

Well, West Africa would be bordering me, so this could be mutually beneficial. I'll think up something today as I have my teeth worked on. I always do my best thinking while squirming under a tiny drill...