NationStates Jolt Archive

OOC: This is a follow up thread to the Second Sussex Conference, where we can discuss details on defending the member nations of the NEA and assessing threats to the NEA.

Trivalvia's initial assessment:

Threats:

The recent creation of The Eastern Powers and their open opposition to the Nova Europa Alliance has upset initial plans by the NEA. The three members of the Eastern Powers all have large populations (and thus it is safe to conclude their militaries are large as well), and large allocations of their government budgets to military spending, both in percentage and absolute terms.

In terms of capability, therefore, Trivalvia believes the EP represents a serious threat.

Measuring intentions, however, is another matter. We have recieved some assurances that the Eastern Powers is a defensive alliance, a counterpoint to our own. Yet, we are not entirely clear on the long term plans of the EP. There is some concern that Tigerlan, the largest EP member in terms of continental population and resources, may have plans to annex all or part of the Republic of Czechalrus, a nation currently nonaligned but with friendly ties to the World Soviet Party. Plus, the heavy influence of Tigerlan within the nation of Spectare, suggests a lower-level threat, although this threat may be more political than military. Tigerlan influence in Spectare does suggest a desire by Tigerlan to influence other nations as well. Any civil disturbances and uprisings within NEA member nations may find support coming from Tigerlan and possibily the Maldorians, itself a nation with a history of imperialism.

The third member state of the Eastern Powers, Wanderjar, is something of an enigma. This nation has long enjoyed good relations with The World Soviet Party, and yet it appears to be the originator of the Eastern Powers. Measuring its intentions will rely on more intel.

A secondary threat also exists from a different direction, although its severity is a little harder to judge. Mutual hostility between The World Soviet Party and the nation of Clandonia Prime has been a long-standing issue, and recently has resulted in the exchange of weapons fire between Clandonian and Soviet ships. While hostilities have cooled since, there remains the possibility of a flareup between these two nations in the future.

Obstacles to NEA effectiveness:

The biggest obstacle to the NEA is its dispersion. As discussed in the Second Sussex Conference, the member nations do not enjoy complete freedom of movement between themselves, with various nonaligned or potentially hostile states blocking air and land access between member nations and in some cases even blocking sea access. Ezaltia is the most isolated nation of the seven member nations, with its sea access potentially blockable by Wanderjar and Tigerlan, and with a large land border with Tigerlan allowing for possible easy invasion by said nation.

SaintB and Naasha share a land border, which will allow them to support each other in the event of attacks, but SaintB especially is easily isolated from other NEA members, while Naasha enjoys air and sea access with Dartia, and through Dartia with other NEA members. Siriusa is also isolated, but as it is far from the Eastern Powers, and has no other enemies thus far, it is perhaps the least-threatened of the nations, and thus its relative isolation is not as much of a problem.

Trivalvia and TWSP both share a land border, and can have sea access to Siriusa (and thus access to the Nova Mediterranian and to NEA members there), and TWSP especially would be the closest member to respond to threats to Ezaltia. These two nations would also be among the least threatened of the seven members, and thus might be able to provide support to other NEA members with a minimal threat of reprisal.

Recommendations

On a larger strategic level, Trivalvia recommends the following:


The creation of a Continental Defense Force, consisting of military units donated from all member nations.
The establishment of CDF units and bases in nations in accordance to their relative isolation and threats to them. Thus Ezaltia, Naasha, and SaintB would recieve a larger portion of the CDF, while Siriusa, Trivalvia, and TWSP would recieve smaller CDF presence.
Induction of nations such as Terror Incognitia and Quadesh into the NEA, to increase total military size of the CDF as well as to open lines of supply.


Trivalvia also recommends that the NEA set clear policy with regards to the Czechalrus and Spectare situations, and encourages that any intelligence regarding these situations be brought to light in this meeting to help refine threat assessment and thus final policy decisions.

Naasha accepts the summary of the situation and suggestions put forward by Trivalvia. We would also like to suggest the placement of CDF units in view of the security of local objectives. These would include the Gibraltar Strait, the SaintB and Naashan borders with the Eastern Powers and the Baltic Sea link between TWSP and Ezaltia.

As stated by the Naashan delegate, this arrangement [the CDF] is aproved by us since, as the Trivalvians have explained, Ezaltia is sorrounded by hostile nations and if an invasion should start, we would be the first to respond.

Furthermore, and now with the aim of protecting our trade, I propose the creation of a common Merchant Marine, which will probably result in less attacks from the Clandonians and other parties hostile to the NEA.

Agreed on everything said thus far. I'd like to add the following:

If war breaks out between the NEA and the EP, the three major fronts will likely be Tigerlan-Ezaltia, Wanderjar-TWSP, and Maldorians-Naasha-(SaintB? Don't have the map handy right now). Thus, it is imperative to fortify these borders against any incursion.

As I stated in the Sussex thread, anti-ship batteries should be placed on the coasts of TWSP, Sweden, and Errikan Nordenland. While the most likely threat is now inside the Baltic Sea, these postions will still prevent Wanderjairan and Tigerlanian fleets from threatening anybody besides TWSP and myself.

The Strait of Gibraltar also becomes vitally important. A hefty naval force should be placed there to block in Maldorians from leaving the Mediterranean.

All the EP nations share land borders with each other, making their logistics trains very easy to manage. The same cannot be said for us. Since most of our logistics flow will be by sea or air (and mostly in contested waters and airspace), it will be vital to protect these trains. Escort duties should be supplied by nations mostly out of harm's way, such as Trivalvia, Siriusa, and Dartia.

The EP supplies, while easy to manage, are by no means invincible. Special-forces units dropped inside Tigerlanian territory can do a world of good.

Dartia and TWSP, both major arms manufacturers, will also be vital to our success. Every measure should be taken to protect their factories and infrastructure.

OOC: I confirmed my membership for the EA today, so take that into account.-

Agreed on everything said thus far. I'd like to add the following:

If war breaks out between the NEA and the EP, the three major fronts will likely be Tigerlan-Ezaltia, Wanderjar-TWSP, and Maldorians-Naasha-(SaintB? Don't have the map handy right now). Thus, it is imperative to fortify these borders against any incursion.


Well, Wanderjar has stated that if war breaks out between NEA and the EP, he will not attack me unless I attack him first, I trust his word but I've told him that the NEA is before all other alliances.

As I stated in the Sussex thread, anti-ship batteries should be placed on the coasts of TWSP, Sweden, and Errikan Nordenland. While the most likely threat is now inside the Baltic Sea, these postions will still prevent Wanderjairan and Tigerlanian fleets from threatening anybody besides TWSP and myself.

There are already well over 5,000 Coastal guns on my, well, coast... both coasts.

As well as Khans and assorted missiles and EMPs.

The EP supplies, while easy to manage, are by no means invincible. Special-forces units dropped inside Tigerlanian territory can do a world of good.

I can do that, I have Spec. Ops. trained by the Wanderjarian GSG-9 and the Hurtians, as well as the Staat-Truppen.

Dartia and TWSP, both major arms manufacturers, will also be vital to our success. Every measure should be taken to protect their factories and infrastructure.

Then again, I have one S-400 battery per square kilometer in TWSP, yes, I have 10,000 S-400 batteries.

The Strait of Gibraltar also becomes vitally important. A hefty naval force should be placed there to block in Maldorians from leaving the Mediterranean.

Maybe a minefield? Both anti-sub and anti-ship of course, as well as coastal guns and missiles.

Agreed on everything said thus far. I'd like to add the following:

If war breaks out between the NEA and the EP, the three major fronts will likely be Tigerlan-Ezaltia, Wanderjar-TWSP, and Maldorians-Naasha-(SaintB? Don't have the map handy right now). Thus, it is imperative to fortify these borders against any incursion.

But that's all a really big IF.

As I stated in the Sussex thread, anti-ship batteries should be placed on the coasts of TWSP, Sweden, and Errikan Nordenland. While the most likely threat is now inside the Baltic Sea, these postions will still prevent Wanderjairan and Tigerlanian fleets from threatening anybody besides TWSP and myself.

No debate to that, but it doesn't appear that Wanderjarian fleets will be threatening anyone. But there still is that IF

The Strait of Gibraltar also becomes vitally important. A hefty naval force should be placed there to block in Maldorians from leaving the Mediterranean.

Don't forget that Spectare is basically an extension of Tigerlan's power, reaching the Mediterranian and could augument Maldorians. It's not just one force we'd be up against. And Spectare's proximity to Dartia could prove to be problematic.

All the EP nations share land borders with each other, making their logistics trains very easy to manage. The same cannot be said for us. Since most of our logistics flow will be by sea or air (and mostly in contested waters and airspace), it will be vital to protect these trains. Escort duties should be supplied by nations mostly out of harm's way, such as Trivalvia, Siriusa, and Dartia.

Spectare and Wanderjar both narrow the window of opportunity to help the eastern NEA nations, such as Naasha, SaintB, and Qadesh. For them, supplies delivered to Naasha via the Mediterranian and then ferried around the eastern part of the NEA. And supplied to Ezaltia could be sent by close overseas allies, naturally.

The EP supplies, while easy to manage, are by no means invincible. Special-forces units dropped inside Tigerlanian territory can do a world of good.

Dartia and TWSP, both major arms manufacturers, will also be vital to our success. Every measure should be taken to protect their factories and infrastructure.

EAI is closed, just thought you ought to know. That limits it to TWSP.

Maybe a minefield? Both anti-sub and anti-ship of course, as well as coastal guns and missiles.

Siriusa has pretty much got that covered.

OOC: Brief response before going back to work...

IC:

I agree with Siriusa, we are dealing with 'ifs', and I prefer we limit our discussions to defensive efforts (like anti-shipping guns, merchant marines, and the CDF) rather than planning counter-offensive maneuvers... We'll be putting the EA on alert with our actions as it is, no need to make things worse :)

"Sweden" and Errikan Nordenland are both outside NEA jurisdiction so far, so building defenses there has issues beyond mere technical and logistics.

IC:

Naasha has enough ports on our western coast to help remedy the logistics problems faced in the east of the continent. We would expect Dartia to keep sea lanes between our nations open and therefore keep ourselves and SaintB supplied. In the event of war breaking out, CDF forces need to be deployed immediately to the Naashan-SaintB border as this will be the key to SaintB's survival, we need to keep open a route for supplies and reinforcements.

At the onset of any war, Naashan naval assets would be deployed to threaten the Maldorians coastline and navy. We believe ourselves to be navally equal or superior to them, but our ships may become tied up in defending the Naashan islands in the Aegean if we don't deal with their presence quickly.

Yes, Tigerlani and Maldorians navy's presence in the Black and Aegean seas will have to be... terminated as fast as possible as to allow for the liberation of Naasha's, Dartia's and SaintB's naval assets from any threat. As well as giving us the chance of an amphibious counter attack if it should come to that.

To get the proposed CDF going, Trivalvia is willing to donate 5 regiments of its ground forces (1 Trivalvian regiment is a mixed force of 3 infantry battalions, 1 tank battalion, 1 artillery regiment, and 1 combat engineering battalion).

Things we will need to settle:

1. We are primarily a defensive alliance, and will certainly act if our own member states are threatened, but we should set some NEA policy with regards to nations within Nova Europa with which our nations have friendly relations or individual alliances/treaties with.

I'm thinking especially of Czechalrus (which now has the entire northern border covered by the Eastern Powers), which - unless I am mistaken, has good relations and at least trade treaties with The World Soviet Party, and possibly with other NEA nations as well. With regards to the NEA and the Eastern Powers, Czechalrus is officially "nonaligned".

If Czechalrus is invaded (and the entry of The PeoplesFreedom into the Eastern Powers does make that likely), should we intervene, and when? Getting a consensus on this question will, I think, help to fix a timetable on how rapidly we will need to establish the CDF and get forces in position, as well as what kind of other preparations we may need to make.

In my opinion, I suspect that Czechalrus will be a test of the NEA's ability to protect its members - failure to act there may lead the Eastern Powers to believe that they can annex other nations with relative impunity, and we will face an increasingly belligerant enemy with increased resources and manpower to match.

2. We should also look at our own militaries and share notes on numbers and overall strength and force projection. How big an operation can each individual nation support and for how long? Are there gaps in the abilities of one nation that need to be filled. We have more nations than the EP (for now), so perhaps some of our individual contributions to any NEA military operation can be specialized. (Answering these questions might also help determine our answer for #1)

We are prepared to donate five regiments and two armoured regiments to the CDF ground forces. This amounts to approximately 10,000 infantry and 2000 tanks.

I suggest that rather than having member nations permanently donate air or naval units, we establish 'CDF control zones', sections of water or airspace that one or more CDF nations are obligated to defend, these would be rotated on a yearly basis.

That does sound like a good idea. Rotating units in and out of CDF service would have some benefits:

1. This would put national military units in close contact with units from allied countries, helping to solidify on a "grassroots" level friendship between NEA nations.
2. Rotation will allow for newer technology - and soldiers fully trained in its use - to be implemented, rather than having to pull permanent forces off duty for re-equipping and re-training purposes.

Trivalvia recommends that CDF control zones would be defined as follows:

Ground CDF zones would cover the nation in question (Units stationed in, Ezaltia, for example would have the capacity to travel all over that nation, but would not be authorized to cross borders). Larger nations may have to have more than one CDF zone, with a minimum of one or more bases in each zone.

Sea CDF zones would cover territorial waters for the nations in question - waters outside of territorial waters would have to be the responsibility of NEA task forces assembled for specific operations. The Territorial Waters restriction should be enough to provide coverage of openings such as the Gibralter Strait.

Air CDF zones would cover both the nation in question and its territorial waters.

Such zones would allow CDF units to respond to foreign invasion at any point, and prevent enemy forces from simply invading "around" control zones, neatly keeping the CDF out of the picture. Restricting sea and air patrol to territorial waters will help to increase security for individual nations while not laying claim to larger bodies of water, which might in turn create incidents.

We agree to these suggestions, it now falls to individual nations to suggest CDF control zones for their own territories and allocate bases to the forces stationed there.

For Naasha, for example:

Ground control zones:
Naashan Control Zone (NGCZ) - Kinnarn LFB
Surdun and Aegean Control Zone (SAGCZ) - CFD Jaevre, Tretton LFB

Sea control zones:
Naashan Control Zone (NSCZ) - Tretton NFB, Gunwe NFB, Keyremar NFB

Air control zones:
Naashan Control Zone (NACZ) - Samka AFB, Reyvver AFB, Freeport AFB

As Siriusa said, these are all huge IFs, and it may be premature to focus our attention on wartime tactics. However, it's never too soon to begin fortifications and CDF rotations.

Ezaltian CDF zones

Ground
Eastern Flatlands (EEFCZ)- Orielle and Christiania Royal Army Bases (ORAB and CRAB respectively), Avalon AFB
Southern Lochs (ESLCZ)- Satine and St. Patrick RAB, Valhalla AFB
Norden Mountains (ENMCZ)- Corass RAB, Nimbus AFB

Sea
Ezaltia (ESCZ)- Port Corass

AIr
Ezaltia (EACZ)- Avalon AFB, Valhalla AFB

Well, if I'm not mistaken, both Naasha and Ezaltia have bases in TWSP, but I can open some new ones for the CDF to use.

Here Be My Armed Forces Organization Thread! (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=524367)

I dont know how many men you need me to donate, because I can certainly spare a few thousands (total military as of today: 29,000,000 that being 1% of the population, not dividing between logistics nor branches of the armed forces).

So yeah, I also suggest you guys join my "Officer Exchange Program", as I think it'll increase cooperation between each nation's armed forces and it'll also be helpful so, well, officers, get used to the customs, terrain and tactics of other members.

Officer Exchange Program and Staat-Truppen Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=538389)

Hope I'm not forgetting anything.

Oh yes, we should get a map of the CDF's control zones worked out.

The EP supplies, while easy to manage, are by no means invincible. Special-forces units dropped inside Tigerlanian territory can do a world of good.

OOC:, Just a small OOC note, I hope you try and land special special forces inside my territory, although getting them in by air is a massive problem for your planes, massive AAA line all acrost my border defense line. By sea you have the First Tigerlanian Task Force on one end, and the Second on the other, The Third is in the pacific, and the forth is under refit. By land you have the same problem as air, The Layered Defense Line.

Lastly I must say I don't understand what all the fuss is about, this "Us Against Them" mentality needs to disappear, War would not be good for eather alliance, Peace must be maintained.

http://www.nationstates.net/images/flags/uploads/dentara.jpg

Official Statement Of The Holy Empire Of Dentara

The Holy Empire Of Dentara applauds this approach to ensuring the defence of all the nations of Nova Europa. With our good relations with the majority of the Nova Europa Alliance member nations, it is thus fitting that we contribute to the defence of our allies.

The Imperial Armed Forces is ready to contribute the 13th, 18th and 22nd Imperial Guard Regiments (exact details shall not be transmitted at this time, for security reasons) for immediate assignment in the Continental Defence Force, and a further commitment of the 4th and 9th Imperial Blood Guard Regiments and our elite 2nd Holy Guard Regiment to be deployed in the advent of hostilities shall be made. We can also deploy a sizeable force of Air and Naval firepower, if necessary, and are willing to increase deployments as required.

Furthermore, we are willing to make sizeable financial investments into the Continental Defence Force, should such be necessary. It is our hope that this gesture shall further cement our good standings within the Alliance.

His Most Holy Lordship, The Emperor Aramius 1st, Supreme Commander Dentaran Imperial Armed Forces, Lord Admiral Dentaran Imperial Navy, Sky Marshal Dentaran Imperial Air Force

OOC: A small OOC on my military. WSP has all these statistics, but you should have them here for review and thus it'll make your thread even more interesting ;)

My military possesses 300 million men, 2.5% of my total population. This is spread out, however, by 150 million men actually in Wanderjar, and another 150 million in my territory of Francaden which I have annexed (and makes up a significant part of my population). My focus is typically on heavy armor, and mechanised/motorised infantry, so be prepared for a combination of Mechanised Wave and Blitzkrieg/Kampfgruppe Doctrines. I have approximately 100 Armee Korps, each one varies in size based on its purpose of creation. In general, most have anywhere from four to ten divisions, save the Penal Legions (Prisoners forced into military service) or the Foreign Legion which have around ten to eleven divisions each. The elite of the elite are the Schutzstaffel, which are composed of the best Wanderjarian, Kaztanian, and Francaden soldiers which are selected based on them possessing specialties or abilities which are needed by the SS. The same goes for the Grenschutzgruppe-9 (GSG-9), which many consider one of the best Special Operations units in the NS world. Yes, they did train WSPs special forces so he knows how they operate. They focus predominately on assassinations, sabotage, guerrilla raids, insurgency and counter insurgency operations. They've operated in all of these with amazing success in the past, and have operated in places such as Chitzeland, Blackhelm, Kraven Corporation, Rastorian Syndicate, et al.

A very brief explaination of my military. If you want me to add anything, else, just ask. :)

OOC: Thanks for the reference material, Wanderjar. However this turns out, it will be interesting RPing with - or against - you. *bows*

And Tigerlan - I think I speak for everyone when I say nobody wants war here either. As Siriusa and Ezaltia have stated, we're dealing in "if's", but good leaders do make some preparations for worst-case scenarios.

Perhaps a summit meeting RP sometime to ease or prevent tensions might be in order after both of our respective alliances are in order?

Lastly, Dentara... forgive my poor memory but are you in Nova Europa? I didn't see you on the map...

OOC: Yes, I'm a Nova Europan. I've just had a lot of school-related stuff on recently, so my activity has been near nil. And as for the map, I 'was' there, until someone decided to remove the second landmass in the map. I'm still thinking about where to try and shift to (especially since the only free land spots are not very... *ahem* advantageous, when compared to my old spot)

We agree with most of what has been said here today, and will assist in patrolling our region's waters and skies. Should someone draw a map of the patrol zones, we will monitor the areas assigned to us with all due diligence.

As far as the rapid reaction force goes, we are leaning towards providing some airborne units, logistical support units, and a carrier battle group or two. We will most likely wait to see what everyone else is contributing, and try to fill in any obvious gaps.

Given our location and other factors, we feel our own nation is relatively secure compared to some of our other member nations. Unless our situation changes, the NEA would probably be best served by deploying its assets elsewhere, and we have no problem with that.

Sounds fair, Dartia. Given earlier discussions I think we'll be seeing the bulk of CDF forces deployed in nations with the greatest threats.

I think this system can be employed for determining what forces go where in the CDF:

1. Member nations contribute as much they want or as little as they can spare. As I mentioned earlier a good benchmark might be 5-10% of a nation's total fighting strength.
2. CDF command then assigns those units to zones where those units would a) function best in and b) be needed the most. (OOCly this would be determined by a consensus among the players)
3. The units assigned to the CDF are essentially on loan, and may be rotated out so long as other units from the nation arrive to replace them. Naasha suggested a yearly rotation.

OOCly, we should probably designate someone to keep track of all this, noting which units have been donated from whom and where they are deployed. If we can get our offsite forums revived, perhaps a special thread set up there can serve this purpose. If nothing else, it will allow us to know what's "on the ground" when a crisis hits.

Well, it's a good thing we came up with all of those "ifs," the way things are turning out.

I tried to outline general control zones on the map in paint. Sadly my tools are rather limited, individual control zones within nations will require a larger map. Note that I expanded the Naashan CZ into SaintB in order to have the same force deployed along the whole Maldorians border, allowing troops in the SaintB CZ to deal with the Spectare and Czechlarus borders.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j157/Caliyen/Nationstates/NovaEuropaControlZones.png

Funny how that works out, eh, Siriusa. Of course, I was hoping we'd have more time to get things in place, but... *shrugs*

Basic divisions on the map looks good. Dartia and Trivalvia probably will have the smallest deployment of CDF forces within their borders as we're the two nations in our alliance that will face the least in terms of threats (though that can change in the future).

Since I've called for an emergency teleconference with NEA leaders in the "TPF Missile Crisis" thread, we can probably deal with specifics for the crisis in hand there. As a result, how things work out there will probably affect our longer term defense strategy planning *here*.

Basic divisions on the map looks good. Dartia and Trivalvia probably will have the smallest deployment of CDF forces within their borders as we're the two nations in our alliance that will face the least in terms of threats (though that can change in the future).

Actually, You're rather close to the whole crisis if you're planning on supporting TWSP military-wise and perhaps even otherwise, and Dartia is right next to Spectare who is essentially just an extension of Tigerlan's reach.

Since I've called for an emergency teleconference with NEA leaders in the "TPF Missile Crisis" thread, we can probably deal with specifics for the crisis in hand there. As a result, how things work out there will probably affect our longer term defense strategy planning *here*.

We should probably make a separate thread for that to avoid cluttering up that one.

Actually, You're rather close to the whole crisis if you're planning on supporting TWSP military-wise and perhaps even otherwise, and Dartia is right next to Spectare who is essentially just an extension of Tigerlan's reach.

We should probably make a separate thread for that to avoid cluttering up that one.

I agree, it'll probably be better if we keep the NEA planning to this thread and the discussion on the other.

One note of caution:

Everything we've been discussing here needs a long time to develop; time for troops to be assigned and deployed, time for bases to be built, etc. Given the current crisis (which does, sadly, look like it's escalating to a full-blown war), we may have to shelve such preparations in favour of more ad-hoc "what we can do RIGHT NOW" measures.

I'm a little saddened at the state of affairs in the north of the continent. TPF said something about '50 fleet carriers' and Wanderjar's population is 11 billion. I hope they'll tone their deployed forces down otherwise the war in the north could be brutally short.

On the southern front, I'm confident that myself and SaintB should be able to contain the Maldorians. I'll bottle him up in the Black Sea with my naval forces and we can effectively remove him from play. I think Dartia should be assigned the duty of subjugating Spectare and Qadesh as early on as possible, both are small and could be overrun easily enough, but if we allow Tigerlan to get reinforcements in there then they could cause a real logistics headache by attacking our sea and air lanes in the med.

I'm a little saddened at the state of affairs in the north of the continent. TPF said something about '50 fleet carriers'

He said 25

and Wanderjar's population is 11 billion. I hope they'll tone their deployed forces down otherwise the war in the north could be brutally short.

*does doubletake* Whaaaaaaaaaaaat? How can he possibly have 11 billion? His NS page says 3.578 billion, not 11.

I believe Wanderjar is counting all of his colonies (we will, I think, need a list for intel purposes). Essentially 11 billion - and the military such a population can support - should be considered his *worldwide* influence. The 3+ billion on this continent will be probably what he'll depend on for this war (if it breaks out) but don't quote me on that...

Trivalvia can contribute some naval forces to help intercept any "behind the lines" naval strikes against TWSP and/or enemy attempts to reinforce or resupply fleets in the Baltic from out of the region. We could also send ground forces to aid Dartia either in repulsing an invasion or in taking the fight to Spectare and Quadesh if they do get involved (at the very least, it will be interesting to see just how "sovereign" those two nations are...)

I believe Wanderjar is counting all of his colonies (we will, I think, need a list for intel purposes). Essentially 11 billion - and the military such a population can support - should be considered his *worldwide* influence. The 3+ billion on this continent will be probably what he'll depend on for this war (if it breaks out) but don't quote me on that...

But if he has colonies far and wide, he will probably only be able to rely on the immediate forces at hand for the time being, at least until the reinforcements arrive...

Trivalvia can contribute some naval forces to help intercept any "behind the lines" naval strikes against TWSP and/or enemy attempts to reinforce or resupply fleets in the Baltic from out of the region. We could also send ground forces to aid Dartia either in repulsing an invasion or in taking the fight to Spectare and Quadesh if they do get involved (at the very least, it will be interesting to see just how "sovereign" those two nations are...)

I don't really support the using of Spectare and Qadesh essentially as puppets. If they want to RP on their own as supporting whichever nation, that's perfectly fine by me, but if another nation just uses them/their numbers to augment his or her own power... that's really no different than just creating a puppet, is it?

I believe Wanderjar is counting all of his colonies (we will, I think, need a list for intel purposes). Essentially 11 billion - and the military such a population can support - should be considered his *worldwide* influence. The 3+ billion on this continent will be probably what he'll depend on for this war (if it breaks out) but don't quote me on that...

Trivalvia can contribute some naval forces to help intercept any "behind the lines" naval strikes against TWSP and/or enemy attempts to reinforce or resupply fleets in the Baltic from out of the region. We could also send ground forces to aid Dartia either in repulsing an invasion or in taking the fight to Spectare and Quadesh if they do get involved (at the very least, it will be interesting to see just how "sovereign" those two nations are...)

OOC: You are quite right. Well said. The colonies I've annexed include a small city state inside of Cazelia, and a rather large place called "Francaden" which was an October 04 nation. I annexed him a LOOONG time ago, like in 2006. So yes, worldwide I do have a population of 11 billion. HOWEVER, the nation of Candistan literally merged itself with me, and its population traveled to my nation and settled there. Thus ON THE CONTINENT I have some...approximately 6.5 Billion. I personally have 3.587 billion at this time, Candistan has 2.761 or something to that effect. It totalled out, regardless, to being 6.5 billion rounded (slightly). Yes, still enough to field that 150 million man military I boast and equip it, but without having to deal with the FULL Wehrmacht ;-)

OOC: Oh and as for toning down deployed forces, I'll ensure that no matter what occurs, it'll be an interesting fight. I don't wank (or at least I try not to) and I'm always open to compromise, so if a war DOES come, we'll just have some fun with it ;-)

Oh and if it does come and the Eastern Powers "wins", don't be afraid about the whole "Give me your password and run down to delete" thing. I hate people who do that. All that'll happen is your Government would be changed to be a satellite of mine. I do hope that should I lose, you would do the same for me. I won't annex you. The only reason I annexed those other guys is because they deserved it. ;)

I'm tagging for a later post when I have time... I'll let it be known now ICly I am totally against a war in NE for several reasons and my position will be to take a live and let live stance.

I'd like to take that stance as well, however, given the fact that the principals here (Doomingsland, TWSP, and TPF) were only too eager to get troops involved, my nation's government is, well, panicked, and prepping for the worst.

If an opportunity for a dialogue presents itself, however, we'd take it... (those involved with the teleconference discussing this crisis PLEASE respond!)

If an opportunity for a dialogue presents itself, however, we'd take it... (those involved with the teleconference discussing this crisis PLEASE respond!)

Where? :confused:

OOC: You are quite right. Well said. The colonies I've annexed include a small city state inside of Cazelia, and a rather large place called "Francaden" which was an October 04 nation. I annexed him a LOOONG time ago, like in 2006. So yes, worldwide I do have a population of 11 billion. HOWEVER, the nation of Candistan literally merged itself with me, and its population traveled to my nation and settled there. Thus ON THE CONTINENT I have some...approximately 6.5 Billion. I personally have 3.587 billion at this time, Candistan has 2.761 or something to that effect. It totalled out, regardless, to being 6.5 billion rounded (slightly). Yes, still enough to field that 150 million man military I boast and equip it, but without having to deal with the FULL Wehrmacht ;-)

While you role-play a 11.2 population, you will be ignored by me. I haven't decided yet whether or not to ignore the puppets or annex them. I'll get back to you on that.

While you role-play a 11.2 population, you will be ignored by me. I haven't decided yet whether or not to ignore the puppets or annex them. I'll get back to you on that.

Erm, why? Most of the nations in NS that have conquered other states often call up soldiers from their vassals. And this would mean you would also be ignoring Maldorians. As for Candistan, I have talked to both Wandy and Candistan in the same conversation. Definetely not the same person, so it's not puppet wank. It's the same thing that Azazia and (someone else, i cant remember) did when they became Oceania or whatnot.

While you role-play a 11.2 population, you will be ignored by me. I haven't decided yet whether or not to ignore the puppets or annex them. I'll get back to you on that.

I feel that this is a little harsh. That said, if you were to deploy a (3%) 336,000,000 man military then I'd be inclined to do the same. I'm happy to roleplay with your colonies and such, but please don't start throwing vast numbers around.

All that said, I've seen you roleplay and I believe that you'll do what's best for keeping the war enjoyable, not just utilise all these colonies to provide hordes of soldiers and win.

Erm, why? Most of the nations in NS that have conquered other states often call up soldiers from their vassals. And this would mean you would also be ignoring Maldorians. As for Candistan, I have talked to both Wandy and Candistan in the same conversation. Definetely not the same person, so it's not puppet wank. It's the same thing that Azazia and (someone else, i cant remember) did when they became Oceania or whatnot.

For a number of reasons. I find it unlikely that Wanderjar annexed a 2004 nation when he a noob. Also, Wanderjar moved into our region nearly a year ago. He never said anything to us about his abnormal population until recently.

Most importantly, we have a system in place for determining what population a person has earned the right to play. That system says Wanderjar has earned the right to play a 3.5 billion population nation.

Erm, why? Most of the nations in NS that have conquered other states often call up soldiers from their vassals. And this would mean you would also be ignoring Maldorians. As for Candistan, I have talked to both Wandy and Candistan in the same conversation. Definetely not the same person, so it's not puppet wank. It's the same thing that Azazia and (someone else, i cant remember) did when they became Oceania or whatnot.

Indeed. I just think of vassals as a nation that asks for defense. In return, they give the owner a few soldiers. But yea, Kampfers is right.

For a number of reasons. I find it unlikely that Wanderjar annexed a 2004 nation when he a noob. Also, Wanderjar moved into our region nearly a year ago. He never said anything to us about his abnormal population until recently.

Most importantly, we have a system in place for determining what population a person has earned the right to play. That system says Wanderjar has earned the right to play a 3.5 billion population nation.

No, the system also says that you can use your annexed nations soldier's. He already made it clear he is not going to deploy vast numbers, I can almost guarantee I will deploy more overall than him, so really you have little to worry about. Also, his abnormal population just came into effect recently, when he decided to include it and merge with candistan. Wanderjar is resposible enough and a good enough roleplayer to handle that population without wanking.

For a number of reasons. I find it unlikely that Wanderjar annexed a 2004 nation when he a noob. Also, Wanderjar moved into our region nearly a year ago. He never said anything to us about his abnormal population until recently.

Most importantly, we have a system in place for determining what population a person has earned the right to play. That system says Wanderjar has earned the right to play a 3.5 billion population nation.

I can't vouch for Wandy's 04 annextion, but I can vouch for his merger with Candistan. I ahve had both of them in the same MSN convo and in different MSN convos. Completely different people.

While you role-play a 11.2 population, you will be ignored by me. I haven't decided yet whether or not to ignore the puppets or annex them. I'll get back to you on that.

Hey man, I legitimately annexed those territories through RP'd wars, not by annexing puppets. Francaden, Candistan (Who voluntarily came), etc were either fought for etc, but were certainly not my puppets. Just need to clarify that. So there is no wanking involved, simply my conquests.

*sigh*

If I had the ability to devote all 24 hours of my day to NS I *might* be able to keep this whole damn mess together... As it stands I can at best devote 1 hour and it seems to be nowhere near enough.

Fine.

People, I seem to be under the impression that when you're in an alliance, you *consult with your allies* before going off and committing unilateral military actions. That's what I tried to do... and it was completely useless. So, enlighten me - what is an alliance in NS terms?

(This is not just me being pissed off - I am honestly concerned my expectations do not match with NS reality. Actual advice is appreciated).

I think that what we have learned from the missile crisis thread is that things move far too fast for all involved nations to get a say in, let alone debate over possible measures to take.

With that in mind, I'd like to push for the formation of an NEA security council immediately. I suggest five permanent members: Dartia, Ezaltia, Trivalvia, TWSP and myself all with veto powers, and with a rotating temporary membership of three other nations. Non-members could still appear before the security council and address any issue, but they may not vote on resolutions.

The security council would elect a chairman (of an ACTIVE nation), who would oversee proceedings, invite nations to address the council, call votes and have the power to make emergency resolutions such as the probation of member states or deployment of CDF forces.

A permanent security council thread would be created to ensure that everyone in the NEA is kept up to date with things inside the council and threats to the alliance.

I agree, but I think we should go even further.

If it's okay for the NEA, I'd like to press for The World Soviet Party being named "Official Ambassador to the Eastern Powers", and allowed to install offices in Wanderjar (hoping they accept and the Wanderjarians are official ambassadors to the NEA). Think about it as some sort of "red phone" between the NEA and the EP, like the US and USSR had during the Cold War.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee51/gmorocco/Coat_of_arms_of_Morocco.png

I, King Ahmed Kazim, hereby request re-admission to the Nova Europa Alliance on behalf of my nation.

By my hand,
King Ahmen Kazim

Good idea, TWSP. You've got my support.

Naasha, I like the idea you've put forward - would Dartia or Ezaltia care to voice their opinions?

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13155245&posted=1

Here we go again, TPF clearly wants a war here. I would like the NEA to urge his allies in the Eastern Powers to rein him in here, since I don't think they are all as prepared and willing to fight as he is.

Noted. The Trivalvian legislature has already passed a resolution to this effect (in which we condemn TPF, not the whole EP, and express the proverbial Hope for peace and coexistance between our alliances), but no diplomatic links are present. I'd say TWSP's new ambassadorial status came at a very opportune time.

That said, and assuming TPF gets his land, Trivalvia will probably look to have CDF naval and air bases established in the Quadrivalve Archipelago and the North Island Territories.

Looking to when the CDF is established; while each nation will have specific control zones they are expected to patrol, I'd like to see CDF forces in those zones under the specific control of the nation in question.

e.g. A CDF land base in Ezaltia has forces from Trivalvia, Dartia, and TWSP. Nation X launches an attack and it's in the control zone where that CDF base is located.

Ezaltia can RP the movements, and attacks of the CDF units stationed at that base. The nations that contributed forces can RP "dramatic scenes" involved, but Ezaltia would be determining losses, loss of equipment, etc, as if they were his own forces.

In this example, this allows Ezaltia to take advantage of the CDF to help repel or blunt the invasion without the contributing nations having to be online at the time (would be more fun if we were, but that's the way the cookie crumbles sometime). Of course, CDF forces would be restricted in they cannot be used outside their designated control zone.

EDIT: Heads up: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=541403 While probably not a cause for war, this may be cause for concern. Diplomats and defense planners take note.

Sorry for not making an appearance here sooner, especially given the huge rising tensions.

I fully support Naasha's decision for a security council to determine military matters. As a small group, it will make decision-making much simpler and thus we can take action, if need be, sooner. While some may argue that it may have too much control, we have a quite diverse group and all opinions will likely be represented.

I also support a 'red phone' system between TWSP and Wanderjar, and urge that it should be set up posthaste.

Also, Trivalvia, I like your idea of RPing the CDF forces. For clarification, using your example, I would determine where forces go, and what they do, while the nation contributing tell it like a story?

PS. Greater Morocco's got my endorsement.

One quick thing now, I have some good news and some bad news for the NEA, however, they are too critical to be posted.

If anyone is interested in getting them, please TG me or give me your MSN addies (if any).

I'd like to make an official request to rejoin the NEA. I've been with you guys so far, and I'd like to make it official (again). I guess this'd be the place to make that request.

Well, Dentara, I have no objections, and TWSP has also voiced support in the recent past. If Naasha and Ezaltia don't object, I'd say welcome aboard.

Greater Morocco; welcome back to NS; if you've got the time, I believe we have room.

I certainly don't object to Dentara or Greater Morocco.

OOC: Sorry to disrupt the thread, but I posted in the Nova Europa Expansion thread a couple of days ago, applying for entry. Trivalvia expressed no concern with me joining the region in landmass #1. Given the current state of affairs between the NEA and the EP, I wanted to make sure that I was indeed accepted into the region before everything goes to hell.

On a side note, I also applied for the NEA, but was told to due further research (aka read the Second Sussex Conference) before turning in my application. After reading the thread, I have decided to continue with my application into the NEA. Does anyone have any objections with either of these two things.

No problem here, I will add you as soon as I get back from school.

Someone please TG him the password.

BA7 and Dentara have my endorsements too. It'll be good to have a neighboring ally, BA. :)

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13159639&postcount=20

This means trouble, and war at that.

TWSP, check your TGs.

Someone TG me or get me on MSN (gooberwoc@hotmail.com) and tell me what all is happening?

About some of the things mentioned here in the conference. I believe that Naasha, and not my Kingdom would be under the most threat from EP if such a war were to happen. Maldorians and Tigerlan are nations with strong relations and ties to my own, in fact we are all three signatories of the Eurasion Defense Initiative of which Tigerlan and I are two leading members; I should also note that though I have not joined both Tigerlan would support me if I did join regardless of my NEA membership. I would also like to suggest that perhaps we could build a joint NEA base in each member nations borders, this could be manned by soldiers from all NEA nations and would be treated as neutral ground.

I agree with your assessment, SaintB... although the prospects of an NEA-EP war are looking less and less likely, thank goodness. Of course, we currently have a shooting war with TPF that could make things dicey for our northern nations...

The idea for a NEA base in each nation pretty much sums up the concept of the CDF :) The above mentioned shooting war does mean that we're a little occupied, but I see no reason why our more stable nations can't get started.

Speaking of nations... has anyone heard anything from Dartia recently? I know he left our region to form one all his own, but beyond that I have no knowledge if he is still part of the continent or the alliance ICly.

The last posts I saw from him were the ones where he was getting a little frustrated with Wanderjar's enormous population. Could be he left because he didn't want to get dragged into a war there.

I've been informed that Wanderjar will today, and if not possible tomorrow, maker a post declaring his neutrality in this conflict.

Good to hear, TWSP - although I think it would be a good move on our part if NEA nations decline from sending troops or aircraft through Wanderjaran territory and airspace for this war. It would, admittedly, make counterattacks on TPF more difficult to arrange, but it would help preserve Wanderjaran neutrality.

If Dartia has truly pulled out, I'll list his nation as "nonaligned", pending a decision on whether he's still on the map or not.

As far as CDF bases in Trivalvia is concerned: I would recommend CDF naval bases be built on Bivalve Island and an island in the North Island territories. Actual construction to be delayed until we can insure no TPF wolf pack slips in to tear said bases up.

Finally, Trivalvia is going to be opening up some of its current military tech for other NEA nations to use (those operating storefronts within the NEA may also be permitted to allow this tech into said storefronts). Mostly naval designs for now, but other goodies will include comm/recon aerostats, field solar and wind-power generators, and a multi-purpose LAV.

TPF will not be honoring Wanderjar is this conflict. We won't be attacking his forces, but we will be moving through his territory and his airspace.

TPF will not be honoring Wanderjar is this conflict. We won't be attacking his forces, but we will be moving through his territory and his airspace.

So, you are basically violating his neutrality?