NationStates Jolt Archive

For any disputes, questions, comments, or concerns.

Hmmm... I think an OOC thread is a great idea. Thanks! :D

Well, here begins the OOC component of the invasion of Undershi...

Undershi, I am really starting to get confused by your posts. All they have to shoot at is the drones, which on their radar is bombers. Your SAM's are also shooting at drones, and thats why my Sariel's (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=484971) are hitting them with Radar-seeking missiles. Until your SAM's are down, your fighter have nothing to shoot at, unless you send them at my aircraft near the fleet.

Ah, didn't see this yesterday when i posted in the IC thread, so i'll delete that one and put the question here: Does anyone have a problem if I get involved in this??

Okay, TPF, something to consider - first of all, other nations (Wanderjar, for example) have been sending in their bombers. Also, I'm fairly confident that if your bombers are in range to hit my defenses, then my fighters, and probably my ground based missiles, are in range to hit them. You're not fighting a n00b nation with n00b tech - Undershi stuff is just as good as your stuff.

We've got AWACS, surface based radar and so on... and even if you and your allies have nuked my satellites, I've still got some left for recon and observation. In short, when your bombers come in, they're coming in against a tough, fully modern, air defense net.

This is a basic description of the organization of Undershi's Air Defense Network:

Hierarchy of command:

Unified Command: Controls all Undershi military assets.
Homeland Defense Command: Controls all Undershi military assets dedicated to the defense of the homeland.
Air Defense Command: Coordinates all Air Force, Air Defense and Civil Defense units.

On the lower level:

Provincial Air Defense Centers: One for each province, other than the western steppes, which are too sparsly settled to require one. Each controls air defense assets at the provincial level.

Regional Defense Commands: Controls the actual tactical disposition of defense assets. Many exist within each province. These commands must act with the resources assigned by the Provincial commands.

District Defense Centers: Organize specific portions of the regional defense scheme. Three or four of these to a region. Most Civil Defense assets are under their control.

As an observer, I see one glaring flaw in your argument Undershi. Sarials can only be seen by two things. First, carrier free radar, which has a range of like 24 m or some shit like that. The other is doppler, but that just gives you a rough estimate of where it is, and wont return any accurate firing solutions. The sariel is designed for stelf, you just gotta roll with it.

As an observer, I see one glaring flaw in your argument Undershi. Sarials can only be seen by two things. First, carrier free radar, which has a range of like 24 m or some shit like that. The other is doppler, but that just gives you a rough estimate of where it is, and wont return any accurate firing solutions. The sariel is designed for stelf, you just gotta roll with it.

Arguement accepted. We would be using doppler too, though. So we'd have a rough idea of where they were... maybe area-of-effect weapons? I see some FAE use coming on...

Arguement accepted. We would be using doppler too, though. So we'd have a rough idea of where they were... maybe area-of-effect weapons? I see some FAE use coming on...

Perhaps. I would personally opt for sending swarms of interceptors to the area and hunting them down thataways.

FAEs are entirely useless against anything smaller than a zeppelin, and even then you're better off using a normal missile.

What I would suggest is trying to guide in aircraft using ground based radars until they're close enough to lock on with IR-guided or laser-guided missiles.

Now that we have cleared that, I will wait for you Undershi to respond to the Sariels and take casualties. Then we shall continue.

Losses to the Undershi military so far:

- 100,000 from Drescon's tidal wave stunt
- 100 fighters downed by enemy fire while defending Undershi
- 80 fighters (mostly older Thunderer fighter-bomber designs with modernized IR guided AAM packages) downed attacking TPFs Sariels
- 14 AWACS downed
- 60,000 from Sariel bombardment
- 20,000 from Wanderjar's bombardment
- 10,000 from other bombardments
- 8,000 from super-gun bombardment (assuming all shells were used)
- 2,000 from Rynaldi rebel attacks

Civilian Dead:

- About 800,000 from the finalized version of Drescon's tidal wave stunt
- 1.2 million from TPF's bombardments

FAEs are entirely useless against anything smaller than a zeppelin, and even then you're better off using a normal missile.

What I would suggest is trying to guide in aircraft using ground based radars until they're close enough to lock on with IR-guided or laser-guided missiles.

Thanks for the advice. I'll give it a try.

Losses to the Undershi military so far:

- 100,000 from Drescon's tidal wave stunt
- 100 fighters downed by enemy fire while defending Undershi
- 80 fighters (mostly older Thunderer fighter-bomber designs with modernized IR guided AAM packages) downed attacking TPFs Sariels
- 14 AWACS downed
- 60,000 from Sariel bombardment
- 20,000 from Wanderjar's bombardment
- 10,000 from other bombardments
- 8,000 from super-gun bombardment (assuming all shells were used)
- 2,000 from Rynaldi rebel attacks

Civilian Dead:

- About 800,000 from the finalized version of Drescon's tidal wave stunt
- 1.2 million from TPF's bombardments

I haven't posted that yet, but yeah, only the High Explosive shells were used. The Nucear and Chemical Agent shells weren't fired, and they're not going to be fired. That'll be in my IC post right now.

I can accept 1000 losses each hour for an 8-hour frame. I don't really know what to do from then on though. >_>

While I'm here, guess I might as well show my 'Dogs of War.'

President Surveys Biological Weapons. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=422764)

President Surveys Dogs of War (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=423101)

There are currently 200 thousand Dogs of War on the Loft of the Avenger, with various objectives ranging from search and destory to terrorize and demoralize.

I don't think I'll deploy the Biological Frontline Morale Destroyers.

You need to invest in AIM or MSN, Undershi. :P

Also, when I start moving in to land troops on Saint Rynald, I need a play-by-play of your resistance, so I know what to have my people fight when I write my post.

I'll need an overview of Southland, Western Steppes (In the Iceland, UK, and Normandy regions, and later on), as well as the Undershi province from all major entrance points -- the coast, Northern, Western, Southern provinces, and Saint Rynald.

Alright, here's some basic stuff.

The Western Steppes provinces are basically uninhabited, or at least very sparsely inhabited. The figure of 15 million that was given signifies only the Undershi population there - there are some locals still running around, and they don't like the Undershis. The geographical layout is similar to Europe, with the Urals as the Western Mountains.

There's an Undershi airbase in Iceland (which is Northreach Island here), and it's housing a couple squads of Lightningbolt fighters, and one squad of Golden Eagle heavy bombers.

Undershi strategy with the Western Steppes will be to fight fiercly while retreating, and destroying infastructure on the way. The remaining locals should be helpful - they're still fighting the Undershi invaders.

The locals there are roughly Germanic, and are very courageous and defiant - sixty years ago, when Northland was overrun, they were also added on to the Undershi Empire, something which they resisted. In the last sixty years, about ninety eight percent of their population has been either killed off or rounded up and deported to the east... mostly killed off... and the rest are still fighting.

The UK region is one of the least heavily occupied - when the Undershis took it, they were too busy planning for wars in the east (Paxton and Saint Rynald) to really bother building up the infastructure to exploit the west, especially a western island.

But, they wanted to occupy it...

So, they sent in some troops, and planned to round up the people and place them in labor camps, building up infastructure for latter exploitation. Their troops were resisted, rather fiercly in fact. The areas where Undershi troops met the most fierce resistance were Scandanavia and Britain - they responded by slaughtering everyone they could find. Britain/Ireland is basically unpopulated (millions were slaughtered with nerve gas and carpet bombings, then troops went in and hunted down survivors). The effective total population of the UK is an Undershi garrisson of about 5,000 on the southern coast, and a few hundred starving survivors hiding in the hills. That garrisson would likely withdraw to the continent as soon as you started landing troops.

As for the invasion of Saint Rynald... I'd like to keep some stuff in reserve, we can have an exchange - you post what you do, I respond, you respond to my response, and so on.

And yes, I do need AIM.

I'll get AIM too... My AIM is "NeoTetraMagic." Add me! :D

Also, Undershi, do you have any particular place you want the Supergun to have targetted? If not, then I'll mark on the map a strip of terrain on the far eastern coast of the Undershi Province.

I know I'm not that great of a War-maker person, but I'm learning.

Alright, I don't actually think there's much of a point in me giving you suggested targets - you could try hitting Undershi City, or you could just hit the Iron Coast - either way you'd inflict damage.

Alright, I don't actually think there's much of a point in me giving you suggested targets - you could try hitting Undershi City, or you could just hit the Iron Coast - either way you'd inflict damage.

Okay. Iron coast it is. Which, I assume, is the far eastern coast of Undershi Province?

Okay. Iron coast it is. Which, I assume, is the far eastern coast of Undershi Province?

That is indeed correct.

Okay, so we've got a Socialist (Maoist to be precise) rebellion in Southland, and a Christian rebellion in Saint Rynald - who wants to support which, who wants to send supplies etc., who wants to just invade and smash the rebels as well as the Undershi occupiers?

Oh, and a quick point - Paxton province could well rise in open rebellion if the Paxtonites were given weapons. Which would be bad for the Undershis, as it would lead to more troops getting dragged away from the fighting to face the rebels...

Okay, so we've got a Socialist (Maoist to be precise) rebellion in Southland, and a Christian rebellion in Saint Rynald - who wants to support which, who wants to send supplies etc., who wants to just invade and smash the rebels as well as the Undershi occupiers?

Oh, and a quick point - Paxton province could well rise in open rebellion if the Paxtonites were given weapons. Which would be bad for the Undershis, as it would lead to more troops getting dragged away from the fighting to face the rebels...

Naturally, I will be supporting the rebels in Rynald, even if they are Catholics :p

As for the commies...I suspect they will be supported and then subsequently crushed.

And if the Paxtonites need weapons, I will happily use my IC contacts in Allanean Arms to give them such. ;)

Sorry no IC post today, just logged on to skim threads, and figured I'd comment.

I know of one Paxonite who would be delighted if I gave guns to the Paxton rebels, and I will, I shall post the list later.

Ah, okay Derscon. Very Machiavellian of you...

I know of one Paxonite who would be delighted if I gave guns to the Paxton rebels, and I will, I shall post the list later.

Yes, so do I. Perhaps an RP from his angle? Or maybe you could send in an elite team, and they could link up with the underground or something?

Undershi Fleet Command, Port Baxter

...

20,000 anti-shipping missiles launched at the assembled fleets of the Democractic Colonies, TPF and Wanderjar. The pain was only begining...

Nice post, Undershi. I would like, however, to inquire as to how many missiles are being targeted at which nations forces in specific, especially since the DC fleet is so far away from the TPF and Wanderjar fleets.

Also, am I correct in my understanding that Fort Baxter is on the coast of Undershi Province?

Hey, guys, I'm sorry for my absence, and I know it's annoying for you guys for me to ask this, but could everyone hold off a little until the weekend? I've been bogged down in RL with school, and believe me, Derscon WOULD have a response to these things, but I don't want to find Blackhelm and Pudu troops to fight off when it, realistically, would have been impossible to even get into the waters without my noticing, nevertheless completely ignoring.

Nice post, Undershi. I would like, however, to inquire as to how many missiles are being targeted at which nations forces in specific, especially since the DC fleet is so far away from the TPF and Wanderjar fleets.


Also, I was hoping to get some details on the missiles themselves. Fast or slow? Big or small? Stealthy or non-stealthy? Easy to shoot down or difficult to shoot down? Chances of being shot down by air-to-air missile / RIM missile / CIWS gun?

It won't be certain how well those anti-ship missiles will penetrate fleet defenses unless a specific missile is mentioned or atleast some of those details are provided.

With appologies for my long absence...

A few things to clear up.

First of all, Port Baxter (Port, not Fort) is on the Undershi coast, about where Tsingtao is in the real world.

As for the missiles, 8,000 at Wanderjar's fleet, 8,000 at DC's fleet and 4,000 at Derscon's fleet.

The missiles themselves are all of the same Undershi-made design - the UA-AASM, the Undershi Arms Advanced Anti-Shipping Missile.

The UA-AASM has the following stats:

Launch Mass: 650 - 665 kilograms

Range: Maximum range given at 400 km, actual effective range somewhat shorter (375-ish).

Guidance: Active radar backed up by low-grade IR sensors. (Somewhat vulnerable to ECM, although offensive ECM (hacking etc.) is ineffective.)

Speed: 875 kph (CIWS are no more effective than against usual missiles, in fact arguably less effective.)

Downsides are a relatively high cost per unit, a tendency for the IR backups to interfer with guidance, high weight and volume (so limits magazine space on naval vessels) and a tendency for a higher-than-usual number of manufacturing defects, some from cost-cutting measures and some from active sabotague on the part of the workers.

(Like most Undershi military gear, these are built by norm workers. The penalty for sabotague, if caught, is to be either flogged to death or impaled.)

Effectively, assume ECM is more effective than usual by a small-ish margin, and that CIWS etc. are a touch less effective.

First of all, Port Baxter (Port, not Fort) is on the Undershi coast, about where Tsingtao is in the real world.

As for the missiles, 8,000 at Wanderjar's fleet, 8,000 at DC's fleet and 4,000 at Derscon's fleet.

The missiles themselves are all of the same Undershi-made design - the UA-AASM, the Undershi Arms Advanced Anti-Shipping Missile.

The UA-AASM has the following stats:

Launch Mass: 650 - 665 kilograms

Range: Maximum range given at 400 km, actual effective range somewhat shorter (375-ish).


If the entirety of the missiles are being launched from Port Baxter, I don't believe they actually have the range to hit the DC fleet at their current position. See map below, where the yellow dot is Port Baxter and the red dots are the DC fleet moving away from Phoenix Island:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v207/JC_Denton/undershimap.jpg

As well, the DC invasion of Phoenix Island is on hold for the moment, as the DC fleet at Undershi moves away to engage the incoming Blackhelm fleet at sea. As I mentioned in an IC post, the DC Marine transports and the majority of the logistical vessels have been placed within the Dersconi fleet formation for the time being.


EDIT: Also, who is this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13152369&postcount=6) in reference to? If it's DC, I would like it noted that the Democratic Colonies isn't a member of the GPE and should not be considered Prussian.

EDIT AGAIN: I suppose you could change the type of missile fired at the DC fleet, or make it a variant of the UA-AASM that is mounted on a booster rocket for additional range? I don't know if you would want to change the numbers for the missiles targeted at the various fleets though.

EDIT AGAIN I PROMISE I'LL STOP: Also, no missiles for the TPF fleet?

Wait, I'm getting missiles too? Are the ones from Port Baxter in range to fire at my ships near Saint Rynald? 'cause I don't have any off Undershi main.

Okay, with an appology for my long absence, I'll get into explenations.

Most of the problems seem to be the result of my reliance on IC stuff, without sufficient OOC explenations.

I'll try to rectify that from now on, but for the stuff already done, here are some explenations.

First of all, missiles are being launched from all along the Undershi coast, not just Port Baxter, so they will have the range. (There are even some launchers in Saint Rynald, although not for long...)

Also, DC, I just showed the result of your aerial bombardment, not of the actual invasion. I was waiting for you to commit before I did that. He was just thinking, that since they're having the crap bombed out of them, it's likely that the enemy will try to land or something, because they obviously want the island.

Now, as for Prussian-ness - all of your fleets are getting attacked, and DC, most of your allies are Prussian - Derscon, for example.

I hope that that clears things up.

My appologies for not posting for a while, I've been very, very, busy. Things should be improving for a while, though.

I'm sorry that I've fallen a bit behind with my responses. Is it alright if I combine the missile strike here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13176620&postcount=8) and the earlier missile strike of 8,000 into single larger missile strike?

I don't know if you agree, but I think it helps maintain the integrity of the timeline better.

In any case, let me know if that's a problem, and I'll edit.

EDIT: I want to make it absolutely clear that I am not attempting to godmod in this post (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13178356#post13178356). Like one of my characters said quite truthfully, "Had those missiles been Praetonian IAD-12 Lances (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10447045&postcount=2) or Rosdivan Rufouses (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=530199)," the outcome would have been very different. I will alter the post if there is any technical complaint.

If my understanding is correct and the UA-AASMs were flying at mach 0.7, level at non-sea skimming altitude, than I think my post makes perfect sense.

I have started a thread (http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/index.php?showforum=15) at the NS Draftroom to ensure the technical accuracy of my RP post.


EDIT:The situation might work out differently if the Undershi Lightningbolt interceptors are stealthy, but that wasn't specified. If they aren't, then I don't believe that AMRAAMs have the range to be able to be fired at the DC ASW helicopters from outside the detection range of the DC carrier-bourne fighters, as occurs here (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13176620&postcount=8).

In my mind the DC fleet's defenses are layered as:
Outermost layer: Long Range Air Patrol
Next Layer: Destroyer Screening Force
Next Layer: Close Range Air Patrol
Final Layer: Naval Action Group organic defenses

with the submarines, and thus the ASW helicopters, engaged with the destroyer screening force.

If the Lightningbolt interceptors are stealth aircraft, then I can understand them being able to get through the Long Range Air Patrol to engage the helicopters. Otherwise, I believe they would have to engage the Long Range Air Patrol first.

Well, I'd like to point out that the Undershis would have known how good your defensive screen was, and would target some missiles at your destroyers, but other than that, okay.

I will edit my post to indicate the targeting of the destroyer screen if you could let me know how many missiles were targeted for them, as opposed to the aircraft carrier / battleship core of the DC fleet at Undershi.

Also, I still believe that the Lightningbolt interceptors should have to engage my Long Range Air Patrol before being able to fire on the anti-submarine helicopters - makes sense, no?

Before we go any further though, I would like to mention my increasing concerned about the future of this RP. A number of RPers haven't posted in some time - could everyone check in, please?

I've been reluctant to commit too much time to this RP, despite your good abilities, Undershi, both due to my concerns about the RP's ability to draw itself to a satisfactory close, and because of our collective communications difficulties. This does not mean that I intend to withdraw from the RP - I am simply concerned.

I will edit my post to indicate the targeting of the destroyer screen if you could let me know how many missiles were targeted for them, as opposed to the aircraft carrier / battleship core of the DC fleet at Undershi.

Also, I still believe that the Lightningbolt interceptors should have to engage my Long Range Air Patrol before being able to fire on the anti-submarine helicopters - makes sense, no?

Before we go any further though, I would like to mention my increasing concerned about the future of this RP. A number of RPers haven't posted in some time - could everyone check in, please?

I've been reluctant to commit too much time to this RP, despite your good abilities, Undershi, both due to my concerns about the RP's ability to draw itself to a satisfactory close, and because of our collective communications difficulties. This does not mean that I intend to withdraw from the RP - I am simply concerned.

Alright, let's say of the 9,500 missiles, 1,500 targeted your destroyer screen, while the rest attacked your main forces.

As for the interceptors, sure, you can have your CAP engage them, although what they did was launch AMRAAMs from maximum range, then return to base, so your fire would need to be at maximum range unless you want to follow them in and risk some ground fire.

As for communications problems, I'd like to suggest that from now on we post a detailed explenation of what we're doing in the OOC thread whenever we post ICly, to avoid further problems. Of course, when I'm online, I generally only have a very limited ammount of time, so I'd like there to be some leeway in just when the OOC componenet needs to be up - same day sounds like a reasonable target to shoot for.

In the spirit of my last post, here's a detailed bit on the submarine attack:

- Your guys know at least five hundred subs were involved.
- About 5,000 torpedoes were launched
- 350 low-quality AA missiles were deployed by pod from the Undershi subs, to attack ASW helicopters.

Finally have time to post again.

Erm, I sent a fleet to assist over in the East accompanied by a marine contingent, where do you want them? If at all.

Finally have time to post again.

Erm, I sent a fleet to assist over in the East accompanied by a marine contingent, where do you want them? If at all.

Okay, I'd suggest working with Pudu to get a combined fleet ready to deploy. As for where, I'd suggest Northland province or Undershi province, as Saint Rynald province is occupied, and Southland province is getting pounded. Although, a major BC fleet is involved in fighting near Southland province, so you could reinforce it there... basically, your call.

EDIT: I'd suggest checking the map, to be found on the IC thread.

Ok, this is from my thread. My fleet reassembled its arsenal ships to fire Khan missiles. This was explained some time ago when fighting Prussian forces off of Toopoxia. This decreases the amount of missiles I can fire, but allows me to use the Khan, so the trade off, by my standards, is acceptable.

Ok, this is from my thread. My fleet reassembled its arsenal ships to fire Khan missiles. This was explained some time ago when fighting Prussian forces off of Toopoxia. This decreases the amount of missiles I can fire, but allows me to use the Khan, so the trade off, by my standards, is acceptable.

Good, I understand and appreciate your explaination.

You know, the more we have stuff like this happen, the more I think the new thing to do when invading a nation is to hammer it with ICBMs (non-nuclear, obviously) and other missiles, plus bombers with fighter escort flying from your homeland, and only when the enemy has taken a beating should people bother sending in the fleet. Just a thought, of course.

Plus, there's always be a role for submarines, needless to say...

The problem with that seems to be that fighters and long range usually don't get along too well.

OOC: You cant fire 300 Kahns from a fleet. The kahn is essentially an ICBM. Unless you want to sink your own ships when firing, then this is ridiculous.
Sorry, BC, but I'm actually going to have to agree with Kampfers on this one.
OOC: You can fire my Chimeras at roughly that range, but they aren't as good as the Khans. A large and deep VLS can do it. Of course if you purchased a few of my Arbalest class dreadnoughts you can probably fire those off the rails.

Will post response once this has been sorted out. I know of its fierce reputation, but technically speaking, I don't really know much about the Khan.


Perhaps even before that... the Undershi had, after all, imported a good number of Paxtonites and Southlanders into Saint Rynald, and they were hardly good Christians... yes, he decided as he walked down the street, savoring the joyous knowledge that victory had been won, soon would be the time for Inquisition to begin again. God's will would always need to be done.

Also, I find this plot development to be very interesting. I think we could go to some very interesting places with this.



A number of RPers haven't posted in some time - could everyone check in, please?

TPF? Wanderjar?

TPF? Wanderjar?

I'm half-inclined to believe that Wandy is refusing to log in. But that's for a totally different reason than this thread.

I'm here too. Still. I don't know if I really have a place here... I'm used to RP, not these war threads... Things... >_> I'll toss up an IC post quickish.

I'm here too. Still. I don't know if I really have a place here... I'm used to RP, not these war threads... Things... >_> I'll toss up an IC post quickish.

If you don't want to get involved, I'm not forcing you. I never made it a mandatory Prussian Crusade.

The last TPF and Wanderjar posts were about a month ago. How should we proceed if they don't come back?

Hey! Undershi! Check your TGs, okay?

With appologies for my long-ish absence:


The last TPF and Wanderjar posts were about a month ago. How should we proceed if they don't come back?

Maybe we should just have the others take over for them, and assume that others were taking their losses and making their gains?

Hey! Undershi! Check your TGs, okay?

Done. Now, check your TGs.

Eh, I told Derscon a while ago that I would withdraw my troops. Since they weren't in anybody's attack range, is it okay to assume they left, or would you prefer a post?

The Griffincrest fleets were now within striking range of their Shockhound Avenger II missiles. At 400 kilometers away from the enemy fleet, the Corporate ships began to light up the sky as thousands of missiles began to scream into the air. Soon, very soon, two thousand five hundred missiles were going to smash down on the enemy destroyers.

Just to be clear, the Blackhelm fleet is 400 kilometers away from the destroyer screen, not the center of the DC fleet? Because 400 kilometers away from the center of the DC fleet would be inside of the patrol radii of the combat air patrols. Keep in mind as we RP that the DC fleet at Undershi is arranged like so:

Outermost layer: Long Range Air Patrol
Next Layer: Destroyer Screening Force
Next Layer: Close Range Air Patrol
Final Layer: Naval Action Group organic defenses

with the distance from the aircraft carriers in the center of the fleet to the destroyers of the screening force being about 150 kilometers, and the distance from the center of the fleet to the Long Range Air Patrol being about 1,000 kilometers.

Because the Blackhelm fleet is actually inside of the DC fleet's Long Range Air Patrol perimeter, I intend to write up the DC fleet as being already aware of the Blackhelm position and prepared for the battle.


Maybe we should just have the others take over for them, and assume that others were taking their losses and making their gains?

Eh, I told Derscon a while ago that I would withdraw my troops. Since they weren't in anybody's attack range, is it okay to assume they left, or would you prefer a post?

Arrrg. I was originally planning to invade Paxton Province before TPF and Wanderjar decided to do so, but didn't since it was supposed to be spoken for...

I feel we should RP the TPF fleet as simply leaving, and yes, I feel some sort of post from TPF would be best.

Undershi, how secure is Paxton Province at the moment?


Goddamnit, the narrative structure of this RP is not as clean as I'd like, there's OOC weirdness and RPers leaving and messiness all around.

I agree and I take blame for my end of it, I apologize. Then again I could just seize Paxton Province as planned, then turn it over to you eventually.

I agree and I take blame for my end of it, I apologize. Then again I could just seize Paxton Province as planned, then turn it over to you eventually.

It's alright, NS is just a game and RP exercise after all. Nothing to get upset over.

As for Paxton Province, just do what you think makes the best sense ICly. This situation is unfortunate, but don't feel that you need to compromise your IC workings and story telling just for me.

Paxton Province is pretty well defended, much more so than Saint Rynald Province at any rate. Plus, the people aren't actually rebelling actively, although they'd greet the soldiers of any reasonably decently behaved invader as liberating heroes.

Although, as stated before, they're not likely to actually rise up.

As for TPF, I'm up for that. Since Wanderjar never got around to doing much, let's just ignore his entire bit, okay?

The only issue Is that I have a significant naval force here that I withdrew to be back home. I am rping the Nova Europa crisis as being five months from now, so do you think I'd be able to secure Paxton and still be home in time so it stays consistent? Otherwise I'll have to just say I left.

The following assets took part in a mass launch nerve gas attack against Dersconi positions in Saint Rynald Province:

- 14 x Fixed missile artillery batteries from the Iron Coast, each of which deployed 75 nerve gas missiles in this bombardment.
- About 50 x Mobile Launchers, each of which fired 16 missiles loaded with gas before redeploying.
- 65 old-model Thunderer fighter-bombers, each of which deployed two missiles loaded with nerve gas at long range.

The missiles used were high velocity variants that deployed the gas in an aerosol form before impacting. The gas attacks were oriented against Saint Maria, a good sized Rynaldi city in the north, and against Dersconi troops.

The gas is a very modern Undershi-made type, it kills on contact with exposed skin (even the slightest bit), and kills very quickly and painfully.

Undershi and Rynaldi cassualties are as follow:

- 245,000 Rynaldi civilians in Saint Maria
- 26 Thunderers shot down
- 250 Undershi troops killed when some gas was spread into the wrong area.

Losses amoung the mobile launchers and bunker-based launchers will vary depending upon your reaction.

The only issue Is that I have a significant naval force here that I withdrew to be back home. I am rping the Nova Europa crisis as being five months from now, so do you think I'd be able to secure Paxton and still be home in time so it stays consistent? Otherwise I'll have to just say I left.

Paxton province is heavily defended, you'd probably take over a hundred thousand cassualties taking it if the rping is anything like realistic. That aside, it would probably take several months to push the Undershi out - I can't make a very good estimate at this time.

Heh, whats your forces look like as in tanks, aircraft, artillery,men etc etc

Heh, whats your forces look like as in tanks, aircraft, artillery,men etc etc

It's almost two AM where I am, so I'll post a full ORBAT tomorrow, but to be quick, Paxton province has a lot of fixed defenses manned by a mix of Janissary and Second Line troops. Also, Janissary and True Undershi police forces are almost as well equipped as the actual military, and will help them fight.

Artillery, including AA, SAMs, rocket artillery, missiles and anti-shipping defenses, is plentiful.

Armour is not as plentiful - not exactly scarce, but less plentiful. The best armoured units are concentrated in Undershi Province and Northland Province, to oppose any invasions there.

Aircraft are readily available in serious numbers - it's close enough to Undershi City that air superiority would be continually contested until either achieved by the Undershi, or the entire Undershi air force was reduced to wreakage. So, lots of aircraft.

Just to clarify what exactly happened in my post, since it may be confusing:

Use of Nuclear Weapons

The use of nuclear weapons was restricted to the fortifications of the Iron Coast, and are thermonuclear, but small enough to affect little surrounding area.
______

Use of Space Kinetic Weaponry

All other targets.
______

List of Targets

**The Rynaldi/Undershi border defences

**All WMD facilities in Undershi

**All strategic defence platforms (satellite defence, etc)

**The capital

**major military installations
______

Deployment

The submarines that the nuclear missiles were launched from, they were sent on a suicide mission. While they have torpedoes to perhaps take a few of your subs out, Undershi, I have no expectations that any one of them will come back alive. They're yours.

The satellites, though:

Some of the plain ol' launch platforms I can lose (and expect to), assuming you can knock a few down before I whack your defence capabilities. However, I do not expect you to have the ability to take down the ODG -- nor do I expect you to be so stupid as to take it down. The ODG is well-defended, so the liklihood of it being lost is slim, and even if it does go down, it will effectively spell the total destruction of your entire nation, as it would unleash IT'S ENTIRE ARSENAL (which consists of many STG Nuclear missiles, as well as thousands upon thousands of kinetic rods), and the size of the station, as well as the boosters, would effectively turn it into a massive meteor that, upon near crash-landing, would have its power core (i.e. a series of interconnected fusion reactors) detonate, i.e. causing one hell of a nasty earthquake, and a destructive radius of OMFG HUGE.

Well, okay... I should just point out one thing: the Undershi Empire isn't some third-rate power. It's got a full-scale nuclear arsenal, ICBMs, inter-continental bombers, etc. If you were to attack Undershi WMD facilities, the result would be mutual glassing instead of the easy victory you seem to anticipate. Heck, any large-scale use of nukes would have that result.

(And yes, we have some kinetics of our own left.) The very best result would be almost the entire Undershi populace dieing, plus about 80% of your population, with a few million citizens of the other involved powers thrown into the mix.

I'm not responding, in order to give you a chance to reconsider before the whole situation devolves into nothing more than n00king.

Derscon, contrary to science fiction, fusion reactors don't detonate like bombs no matter how much power you shove into them. The most you can do is make 'em melt themselves.

Also, unless the station is several kilometers in diameter and is solid, it is not going to cause any type of appreciable earthquake. It is also unlikely to land intact depending on it's shape and is more likely to break up in the atmopshere.

I'm going to further note that godrods have a very localized effect and don't tend to cause huge, city-destroying levels of damage. They are tactical weapons, not strategic ones-- one godrod is good for crunching in a bunker, and a lot of them will level some buildings, certainly, but they are not so good for mass destruction.

What they ARE good for are hitting ships in port and cratering runways, and, as stated, penetrating hardened installations. However, given that they're, well, -rods-, they are quite amenable to interception and deflection for obvious reasons.

Also, last I checked, Undershii covers something like the combined area of Europe and Asia. No one has enough nukes to turn every square foot of such an area to glass. (heck, the Soviets didn't even have enough to turn the US to glass during the Cold War, for that matter...)

Derscon, contrary to science fiction, fusion reactors don't detonate like bombs no matter how much power you shove into them. The most you can do is make 'em melt themselves.

Well, the whole thing is, they're specifically designed to be able to turn into a bomb. "Overdrive" isn't so much a power-overload but merely switching use.

Also, unless the station is several kilometers in diameter and is solid, it is not going to cause any type of appreciable earthquake. It is also unlikely to land intact depending on it's shape and is more likely to break up in the atmopshere.

I'm going to further note that godrods have a very localized effect and don't tend to cause huge, city-destroying levels of damage. They are tactical weapons, not strategic ones-- one godrod is good for crunching in a bunker, and a lot of them will level some buildings, certainly, but they are not so good for mass destruction.

These two I group together because I will be the first to admit that, when it comes to technology, physics, or anything else science-related, I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about. :D I RP strictly for the story, reality be damned. Unfortunately, others don't take this perspective. ;)

Oh, and an ODG is several kilometres in size. It's a space-station, after all.

What they ARE good for are hitting ships in port and cratering runways, and, as stated, penetrating hardened installations. However, given that they're, well, -rods-, they are quite amenable to interception and deflection for obvious reasons.

I was informed differently, actually -- namely, that due to speed (less so) and size (more so), kinetic rods, once launched, are a bitch to intercept. I may have heard wrong.

Also, last I checked, Undershii covers something like the combined area of Europe and Asia. No one has enough nukes to turn every square foot of such an area to glass. (heck, the Soviets didn't even have enough to turn the US to glass during the Cold War, for that matter...)

Well, as Derscon is quite larger than both of these states combined, that shouldn't be a problem. Alas, I said nothing about glassing anyone.

Well, okay... I should just point out one thing: the Undershi Empire isn't some third-rate power. It's got a full-scale nuclear arsenal, ICBMs, inter-continental bombers, etc. If you were to attack Undershi WMD facilities, the result would be mutual glassing instead of the easy victory you seem to anticipate. Heck, any large-scale use of nukes would have that result.

Understandable, but I could prevent a total glassing of Derscon, alas, this is irrelevant for the moment. Continuing...

(And yes, we have some kinetics of our own left.) The very best result would be almost the entire Undershi populace dieing, plus about 80% of your population, with a few million citizens of the other involved powers thrown into the mix.

Again, unlikely, but, continuing...

I'm not responding, in order to give you a chance to reconsider before the whole situation devolves into nothing more than n00king.

Yeah, give me a few days. I mostly used the nukes since you used the gas, but if your response is going to be RAWR LAUNCH EVERYTHING AT DERSCON, while I could probably survive well intact (albeit with heavy damage), I'd rather not it descend into this, for the sake of the story.

...

You're emptying the silos because of GAS?

That's rather an overreaction. Gas masks and NBC gear exist for a reason.

...

You're emptying the silos because of GAS?

That's rather an overreaction. Gas masks and NBC gear exist for a reason.

Emptying the silos? Hardly.

And it is a bit of an overreaction, yes, but it's more because of the reasons of usage, not the usage itself.

Fuck all. I waited too long to post, and Undershi timed out.

This RP is effectively dead.

As it stands, Undershi is untouched, Saint Rynald is taken, and Paxton is effectively taken.

Northern, due to Wanderjar's lack of RP, is untouched.

the Eastern territories: Iceland and the British Isles have been taken.

Therefore, since RP cannot continue, I'm going to assume that a peace conference was held, and:

1) Derscon has withdrawn from the Eastern provinces entirely

2) A demilitarized zone has been established along the Saint Rynaldi-Undershi border

3) A truce and Non-Aggression Pact has been signed between Undershi and Derscon (acting on its own behalf and of Greater Prussia's)

4) Paxton Province is a Greater Prussian Imperial Territory

5) Saint Rynald is a state of the Dersconi Empire

6) All national forces, save Derscon and Undershi, have withdrawn from the region.

We were discussing this via TG before Undershi timed out, so I'm just gonna roll with it.