NationStates Jolt Archive

Here it is

Guys! Guys! I here!

But more importantly, on to the current OOC issues at hand. You raise some good points, Drath, but look at it in this light: Roma hasn't posted anything that isn't common sense. First off, the trajectories of the asteroids would lead him to what was launching them, regardless of what that was, and considering his post stated that he pretty much launched enough ordinance to turn the asteroid field into a spacial sandbox, it's more than likely that lots of them hit your things, as I doubt a big hidden lug could get away from that in time without crashing into several asteroids and blowing itself up anyways on the way out. Aside from that, he didn't ACTUALLY post your damage. He didn't go "ZOMG!!!!! MY MISSILES BLOW J00 UP! WE WINZ!" he just said that your ship was hit by them, which in itself is a no-no, I agree, but it is common sense and in the interests of speeding things up on a seemingly inconsequential issue.....

As for the planet damage, you yourself posted that it is likely that the debris would be thrown at your own planet. Once again, he just sped things up a bit. Now I could understand if he said something that would FORCE you to accept something, but seeing as how you do accept that such an event will happen, why argue? Look at this comical scenario to see what I mean:

Player1: I have soldier sitting in a field
Player2: I launch a nuke at the field your soldier is sitting in, should be landing right on top of him too
Player1: NOOOO!!!!!!!!!1 N00000B YOU CATZ DO THAT!
Player2: But he's dead anyways, what does it matter?
Player1: ....

Now if it was like this on the other hand....

Player1: I have a soldier coming out of a bomb shelter for a smoke.
Player2: I launch a nuke at the location, it should land right ontop of them, and when it did your man felt his skin melt off in a rather gruesome display
Player1: NOOOO!!!!!!!!!1 N00000B YOU CATZ DO THAT!
Player2: But he's dead anyways, what does it matter?
Player1: Nuh uh! I have a bomb shelter not a foot away, and it would be easy for him to look up and see the nuke coming, meaning he puts out his cigarrette, jumps back into the shelter, seals the hatches and heroicly ends up saving everyone iside.
Player2: Ok, I be n00b. But that doesn't stop your mother going down on me! OH BUUUURRRRRNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, because I came here and posted that before I noticed the IC part of your last post, here is my further reply:

I'm almost certain you said your ship thing was in the asteroid field, not simply overlooking it. I'll scan over again to make sure, but until then I stick with my previous statements.

Also, I gotta say, I did not see that coming. Fedral Union beseeched by Drath for help, then he comes and aids us? Like, wtf? I should open negotiations with him and get him in the Republic as well! We have great benifits, such as dental, medical, life insurance, and free pie!

Mind if I even things out a little Tal by aiding Drath?

Also, it is important not to declare that stuff. Yes, saying the asteroids hit the planet is common sense, however, they are still godmodding which is:

Declaring damage for other people. I.e. the missile attacks and the asteroids.

This kind of crap, as inconsequential as you say it is, messes up a thread as it pisses off the guy you are attacking. Let him do the damage, if he isnt taking enough, say so. But until then, let him declare damage, not the Republic.

It's simple rp etiquette.

Alright, apologies for any godmodding I inadvertently did. I stayed away from RPing actual damage to your stuff, but as Tal pointed out, it is a reasonable assumption that a large stationary object in the middle of hundreds of other large stationary objects is gonna get hit when 50 heavy capital ships are blanketing a relatively small area with as much fire as they can put out. I did not say the Hunter's Lair blew up, and I didn't say anything about what kind of damage she took. I said that she got hit, which I think is a reasonable assumption considering the circumstances. I left the damage details up to you because it's your ship.

I also did not call any damage to your planet, but stated that the asteroids hit the atmosphere and broke up into lots of little flaming pieces, as asteroids tend to do when impacting with a planet's atmosphere at, as you put it, "extraordinary speeds" in "masses of superheated energy." Again, left the actual damage up to you because it's your planet.

I read your Hunter's Lair post fine, and I read it through several times. Let's take a look at what it says about the Hunter's Lair:
Lurking cloaked in the shadows was the Hunter's Lair and her massive mass drivers.

Note that it says nothing about the mass drivers being detached from the ship. If you expect people to make that conclusion, you should probably include that little detail, because otherwise they're gonna read that and assume that the mass drivers are weapons attached to the ship. But I don't think it makes a lot of difference. If the mass drivers were separate and spread out, then the ballistics trails would have been traced to their appropriate locations and the whole thing would have been torched like it already is, the Hunter's Lair very likely getting caught in the crossfire again. Same outcome as what I wrote in my post. If you disagree, then you should include more details in your posts about just exactly what and where your forces are. Because otherwise, I'm going to make assumptions like this. I only have what you write to go on.

I think that about covers it. If I missed something, say so and we'll talk the whole thing out.

It is poor RP etiquette, I agree completely Tel, but still, he's Republic so I support him. And my points are true, but even this argument is inconsequential in my opinion.

So then, in the interests of saving hurt feelings and pointless debate for something truly controversial which I'm sure will come up in the future, it always does in wars, it's unavoidable. Oh my, I just went on a rant...and used bad english skills, but anyways, let's just say the asteroid field is gone now, and your ship is still hiding away from it like you said in your last post, yes? I believe that's a fair thing for everyone to agree to.

Ok sorry I've been gone work has been quite hectic but as for the Asteroid Field we'll say a significant portion is gone. I say this because the Asteroid field is the debris from seven or so moons and a planet. Even 50 Capital ships couldn't wipe all that out. And I guess I forgot to say it ICly when I told everyone OOCly. My apologies.

Hey Dracious edit your last post remember the planetary shield system I erected? Just thought I'd point that out. The only reason the Rekenians know how to get through is although he did not mention it ICly we in the IoM share our shield frequencies for this particular event. Also so we can board each other's ships to aid each other in emergencies. Just thought I'd remind ya in case you didn't catch it before. But overall the RPing has improved a great deal this will be a great story.

How the hell is he supposed to "catch it" if you or Reken don't say it IC? That's kind of an important thing to mention if you don't want misunderstandings to happen.

Let me say again he did not say it ICly however he did mention it OOCly on the thread. This was when he passed through the shields of the Dragon's Pride to confront Mercer. So yes it was said in the thread but it was not said ICly so therefore if you read every post like I do you should have seen that as now it has been mentioned a few more times.

For future reference, it's a small courtesy to your fellow RP-mates to not make them go sifting back through 7 pages of RP for single one-sentence references.

Even though I've gone out of my way to keep my characters from influencing this thread in any way, and even though I have a TG in Marionetonia's telegram page where the Ally I supposedly insulted told me that he was laughing hysterically over the humor of my most recent post, Tal took the step of making an OOC post in the thread (he should've TG'ed me--I read my TG's) telling me that he didn't like 'em anymore.

In case you folks haven't noticed, situations where XYZ leader looks smugly down at his huge forces and orders another attack bore the living daylights out of me. Actually, I think I have that song, "The Living Daylights"...it's by AHA, and it's the theme from a James Bond movie. "Set my standards way too high..." :) :) :) Anywho, those posts are long on toys and short on character development. Not the kind of thing a novel editor enjoys.

I'm sorry. I simply can't post the way that Tal wants me to. It's not that it's bad, but it's just not for me.

I'm out. Won't be bothering you folks any more. No hard feelings.

I never said to make it the kind of post you just described, I just said stop making them pointless. Have good character developpement, but dont make your people blow each others brains out for actually having one, and charging head on into gunfire without any point. Guess what I'm saying is, start liking your nation or switch if for Dastardly Stench like you were going to.

So, once again we have an issue with Drath's overpowered toys.

I don't really understand your reasoning behind your shields still being impenetrable. I'm gonna let you explain the whole "friendly weapons signatures Ion Cannon" thing for us again, because I can't really argue against something I don't fully understand. So lay it out for all of us.

But I will call B.S. on the fact that Reken's ships can pass through the shields with ease because they know this magical frequency - yet Republican ships, using the exact same frequency that they have just observed and decoded, conveniently cannot. You seem to be adding convenient features to this thing as time goes on. First there's no shield when Dracious lands. You swarm him with Space Marines out the wazoo and he wants to reinforce himself, and it's conveniently switched on. We try to bypass the shield with Dracian psychic abilities, and suddenly the satellites have Warp shields around them. We observe your own use of the shield to attack us through it and use your own shield frequency against you, and suddenly the shield only lets things through in one direction (funny, I could have sworn Reken came in from outside... wierd). And something about a kinetic field that makes it stronger as things are fired at it.... even though that's pretty much irrelevant, since we're dealing with a frequency that lets things pass through the shield without being stopped...

So can you see how we might be getting a little frustrated, every time a "new" feature pops up just in time to render our entire understanding of this thing irrelevant? Either you don't fully understand how force-fields work, or you have an entirely different concept for how this particular shield is supposed to work. So what are you basing this on? From everything you've told us about shield frequency and whatnot, you seem to be operating from the Star Trek theory of shielding, in which the force field oscillates at a certain frequency to let your own fire through, like the interrupter gear they put in old fighter planes to keep their machine guns from shooting the propeller off. This also lets your ally's ships pass through the shields, since they can tune their own shields to the right frequency to cancel out your shield and let them through. So what's the logic behind their ships not being affected by this one-way only property of your shields and ours being stopped by it? You got a second frequency that lets Reken through the one-way part of it? If that's the case, funny how neither of you saw fit to mention it before. So please, tell us what this shield is supposed to consist of, because to the rest of us it looks you're changing it every time we figure out the weakness of the last post's model. By your first descriptions, the shield didn't select which way things could pass through: they passed through if they possessed the right frequency of their own shields. Reken's ships passing through in this manner is cold hard evidence of this being so. You cannot change your systems around and make them suddenly more complicated and impregnable because we found a weakness. That is the godmodding that Great Computers is pointing out.

I'm sure your whole system makes perfect sense to you, but we're not you. We only know and understand as much as you tell us, so when things start not adding up like this, you'd better have some good explanations for why they are so. Otherwise we're gonna start getting exasperated.

Ion Cannons in any tech are designed to either be a sort of EMP attack weapon or a powerful heavy weapon that beats down shields. Ok you use weapons using the same weapon frequency. Ok I got it now where this doesn't make sense is you are talking about an Ion Cannon that hit the ship a weapon designed to pass through or beat down most shields. Then you in turn fire non-Ion weaponry at a shield that was built off of absorbing most types of kinetic and energy blasts. And since you are all bitching I'll give you the answer now although had you even the most basic understanding of the way energy works would've gotten it.

Two ways to get through it. The first is a modulating frequency laser and easy thing for any nation to build and use. Using a series of AI's you fire a laser into the shielding the frequency is constantly modulating after awhile the it will find the right frequency that will punch through the shield. Ok then after this you have great things called more lasers which you can use to form a wedge to push starships through. Of course this is a little more complicated so let's make it simple. Who here has seen Star Trek? Well there is a race called the Breen whose weapons could drain shields although this may be advanced for some nations there is a way you can do it that even modern tech employs. EMP. Electro-magnetic Pulse it's easy to replicate and as such easy to use. Although while an EMP that large would be dangerous even to your own vessels if not properly shielded it would inevitably knock out the shielding systems. Hell there are all sorts of ways though you also have the Ion Cannon for instance. You keep thinking inside the box I'm trying to get you to think outside. That's what all my tech is supposed to do.

And I will call BS yet again using the frequency of an Ion Cannon which is stupid. Tal has my msn he could've asked me easily oocly. He didn't not even on here. Anisarian looked at the thread and the type of shielding and knew within minutes what he needed to do to beat it and he was dead on. The reason Reken can get through is they know the shielding frequency and if you have a resoncance frequency on shielding and fly into that shielding then guess what you act like a knife cutting though the shield.

The Warp Shield you speak of was performed by about 300 Librarians and a Psyker primarch who was in touch with the sorcerer's minds.

I will yet again explain the Ion Cannon thing. An Ion Cannon is a weapon that beacuse it is made of concentrated Ions punches through shields essentially and then causes damage because it is concentrated Ions. Study science. And study FT tech. Yes you are right Ion Cannons have a weapons frequency but that's not what allows them to pass through the shields.

And quote from wikipedia,

In science fiction, an ion cannon is a fictional beam weapon that fires beams of ions (particles, i.e. atoms that have been affected in some way as to cause them to gain an electrical charge). Due to its power it is usually classified as a superweapon. An Ion Cannon is actually a type of Particle Cannon; only the particles used are ionized. Due to their electrical charges, they also have the potential to disable electronic devices, vehicles, and anything else that has an electrical or similar power source.

With this last phrasing on how an Ion Cannon works I will say this. You may ask then why does it pass through shielding? Shielding is nothing more than a series of charged attoms projected in a shape in which to use to defend against both kinetic and non-kinetic attacks. So Ionized atoms meeting charged shielding atoms? One of two things are going to happen depending on how your shields are developed. First it'll go straight through. Second it will impact and cause damage to the shielding systems. You choose.

Also on the conveineince of the shields. I will explain this one last time on a post so everyone wil know.

I am a Intelligence Analyst in the US Army Military Intelligence Corps. I have worked with CIA, Special Forces, Delta Force, the Rangers and almost every other entity you could imagine.

Now why you ask why I would wait to use a shield system to limit reinforcements of troops once they have landed? Simple strategy. Say we are in World War II you are the Americans going through a mountain pass and I am the Germans with an entrenched position. In order to thin out your numbers and put your ranks in disarray we fire artillery into that pass collapsing the path behind you. Now you can't escape. Ok yes you have Airborne troops and they are on their way for reinforcements. But I had hidden Anti-Aircraft weaponry and air superiority in the area now what are you going to do? Can your reinforcements get through? No so you have to use precision strikes and tactic to punch your way through to get reinforcements through. Tomorrow I was going to post the answers you sought to beating the shield. Well I told you today.

As I said last night I would give you hard plausible scientific answers correct? I work off the basis for science. Not off of oh this my uber pwn weapon. Know every weapon and tech in FT has a scientific base. And yes I work off of the assumption of oscillating frequencies I suppose but remember this when you mention Reken. We also have the same tech. How does a Thunderhawk land on a starship during a battle? Well I know they don't drop their shields. But now you can punch through the shield. I just can't believe none of you short of Tal came kind of close to the answer.

Also before you say something again about well where did that tech and this weapon come from? Think about this Aquaria is my version of WH40K's Mars.

Tal is firing a shitload of plasma weapons at the shield. What's plasma? Ionized particles. So Tal's pretty much shooting the same thing at you that your Ion Cannons are shooting at us. And by that logic, Dracious' weapons should have punched through a long time ago, because they also utilize a form of plasma. And I guess by that logic, your ships' shields really aren't that effective against any of the Republican capital ships, since they use primarily heavy plasma weapons, if your ships' shields are the same type as the planetary shield.

Ok well here's the difference we are taking about an Ion Cannon which fires Ionized Atoms in an energy blast. And Plasma an Ionized gas contained in a magnetic field. I use plasma too though just so you know. Plasma weapons and Ion Cannons work in two different ways. Ion Cannons meant to damage electronics. And plasma weapons which were designed for pure destruction. When the compressed ionized gas in a plasma shot impacts something it compresses further and explodes. When the ionized energy blast from an Ion Cannon strikes it doesn just what I said earlier. It is a force of ionized power that is designed to fry the shit out of electircal devices. It could also probably kill a human because of the ionized heat and energy and then that subsequent fact that your body has a lot of electrical energy in it.

Also if you noticed I said the planetary shield was built by the previous race known as the Dratherians. An abhuman species separate from the humans of the Imperium using only some of the technology they did. The shields on the starship however are different making them weaker or more vulnerable to different things.

Now if your plasma weapons differentiate in any way to what I've explained then please do tell me. But as to all my research that is what I understand a plasma weapon to be. Now I hope this has assuaged you. I have given you the means to cut through the shield and attack the sattelites now what you do with that is on you.

Also so you know the Hunter's Lair is significantly larger than any other Ramilies. Like I am showing you this world is full of both captured Xenos technology as well as Imperial technology also please do let someone reply to my message from my Emperor.

Plasma deals damage based on its incredible heat. The magnetic field is only to prevent dissipation, but ionized particles are ionized particles. The Ion Cannon focuses them into a beam and I guess lacks the magnetic field around it, but any ionized particle interacting with an electromagnetic forcefield will have the same effect. Your Ion Cannon beam is focused and continuous and thus more powerful per shot, but the entire 6th Imperial Fleet blanketing a shield with plasma bolts should more than compensate, as well as affect a much larger area. It's essentially the same effect that an EMP blast would have.

See most mistakes between honest individuals comes from some sort of information disconnect. I did not know that the particular weapons being fired in the first place were plasma based. Regardless should you guys try it again I can say it punched through into the sattelite. However it is still not as effective and wastes much more ordnance than necessary. The solutions I gave you were easy and not as costly. See through discussion we can diffuse a situation quite easily. This is just a thought as you will encounter a few more planets such as this. Just not cost effective ya know? But I interpret plasma to be a more kinetic style weapon than what an Ion Cannon is considered to be. I'm just saying that had I known it was plasma I still wouldn't have called it a punch through. Although yes your argument makes sense future. Next time we really need to discuss such things on the OOC thread or messenger before they happen. So as to avoid technological misunderstanding.

Well, Drath, "interpreting" it as a more kinetic weapon is skirting that line no one wants to cross, as it could go into the realm of making yourself immune to it. Future, as well as I, consider it energy, ionized particles, etc, while you say its more kinetic. A compromise needs to be made here, but you have already begun that process, so that is enough here.

I'd like to throw in my two cents quickly.

I don't give a flying rat's ass about science. All I know is that for some reason, Drath's and Reken's ships are vibrating, rotating, or somehting of that nature in order to achieve a frequency. Seems kind of absurd (be honest).

Also, just for everybody, don't be posting damage dealt to others. Be fair with your tech, and pay f__king attention to people on the forum...

Edit:
How in the world is a 1.00 Calibur weapon firing with percison at 1 and a half miles?
There's a reason Bolters only have a 24 inch range in WH40K...

Drath, even a beam of particles is going to resonate a certain frequency, and using physics, you can calculate the frequency it is resonating. From this, you can analyse the disturbances in the shields when the beams pass through(because I'll conceed Ion cannons passing through shields, you obviously know more than me on those things), but the fact remains that they do infact resonate a frequency. Now then, take a tuning fork, place said fork next to another tuning fork. Hit the one fork, and hit the opposite one a different way. From the vibrating frequency caused by both, a sound with get higher and lower, because each resonate frequency is disturbing the other. Now then, analysing the frequency of the ion beam has given us one variable, from which we can analyse the disturbances in your shield system and find the second variable. I do not feel that a big scientific explanation was needed to say this, feeling that the statement of analysation taking place was adequate, as science tends to bore certain people with no knowlegde or interest in it. Therefore, my last post saying I found the shield frequency is valid. I haven't read anything after that, but I'm going to assume you've said it wasn't. Please change this.

Also, you seem to like gloating. This is the fourth time I've heard you state that you're a head intelligence guy for the US army. Tell me this: What does the fact that you have a job with the army have to do with the meaning of the word strategy? Could you not have just said "It's simple strategy to cut off ones reinforcements and supplies," instead of adding all that mumbo jumbo nobody really cares about? I'm happy for your exaulted position, and congradulate you. However, being big cheese does nothing but inflate your ego, which in my opinion, makes your character a bit lower.

That's my two cents on that. Now to go read the IC thread and catch up.

Actually Im not really gloating Im putting emphasis on why I take this so much more serious than a lot of people and that's why I have been coming up with all these elaborate strategies. Because I don't like this kind of thing:

Player 1: I am sending a massive uber assault fleet after you.
Player 2: I am sending a bunch of ships with similar uber weaponry at you.
Player 1: Well then I'll send more after you.

The it just goes on and on till a nation's whole fleet is commited.

Intel is my life and I'm not some uber head guy by any means I just come up with the viable solutions to the problem then work with my commander to choose which one is implemented. That's also why I put so much stock into scientific explanations.

As to the 1.00 Caliber it is possible requiring a much longer and heavier rifle than most but it is possible. We're talking about a giant with a giant gun. It could be done. Now if you want I can go into a great detailed scientific explanation with measurements and such but I think that would bore you and that you would have to do a significant amounts of reading on gunsmithing.

Shoot, I'd love to hear about it. So feel free to post the information about it, because I'm all up for learning somehting new. It's just that I was under the impression that Space Mariens were 2 meters tall, which is only about another 1' 6'' taller than normal humans. And that'd have to be a pretty big gun...

Well actually Space Marines are closer to 9 to 11 feet tall. A primarch is a massive being the kind that could easily one hand fire a minigun. They easily range anywhere from 12 to 16 feet tall and are massivley strong and quick able to break the bones of a normal space marine with a pulled punch.

The bolter isn't made for long range combat like the bolters the Hunters of Darkness are. If you think along the lines of a .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle you can realize that hwile the .50 caliber M-2 Haeavy Machine Gun has a much longer and heavier barrel. The Bolter is kind of made to be like an AK-47. Very effective at close range but not so much at long range. The Exitus Bolters are specially tooled for long range combat. Now you'll have to give me a bit of time to give you exact measurements all that is needing to be realized is that it is entirely possible. Now like I said it would take time to figure out the measurements necessary considering the use .75 caliber rounds is rare.

If the bolter was converted into a coilgun, then it would have a much longer range, perhaps that's what Drath has.

But then, back to my arguments...and comments I suppose. You've validated yourself, seeking science and showing some humility. I approve. Thus meaning your house is safe from flooding. To ensure future safety, please continue animal sacrifices in my honor.

I’m sorry but I believe this is the exact description of a bolter.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/King_Zordos/Botler1.jpg

Strait from Codex: Space Marines

That and I do believe orks and space marines are about equals in height. If you need evidence here is a picture from the Dawn of War video with a space marine shooting a ork in the face who is standing downhill from him (actually the orks seem taller than the space marines in the video). Next you will see a picture from the ork codex with a height chart of the different members of the ork hierarchy. The standard boy which is the one in the DoW picture is about two meters tall while the warboss who is described in the codex as dwarfing any space marine in stature are about three meters tall.



http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/King_Zordos/Hieght.jpg


And on the subject of primarchs here is a quote from the book Horus Rising by Dan Abnett. This quote is describing Horus when he appears for the first time in the book “The god was a true giant, as large again to any Astartes warrior as an Astartes was to a normal man.” (page 43 first line)

Well, I’d imagine that if .75 caliber rounds are rare, that 1.00 caliber rounds are non-existent.

Also, Dracious does make a good point. The Primarchs were taller than space marines, but only to the extent of Space Marines to normal humans.
So, if an average person in the FT world is, say, 6 foot, it means a Space Marine would be maybe 7 foot 6 inches meters tall. And then, the Primarchs would be similarly tall, possibly reaching 9 feet, at most.

Also, you bring up the range of a large caliber weapon. 50 cal snipers can shoot what, a mile and a half? And how accurate is that? It’s a simple matter of gravity. The larger the round, the more it is affected by gravity, hence why rounds larger than .50 calibers are rarely used (so much so in fact, I’ve never heard of one being larger than 20mm) for personal firearms. You would need a ridiculously enormous amount of propellant to fire as accurately as you claim, at a range of a mile and a half, with a 1.00 caliber round. And a round of that magnitude would surely be large and unwieldy to carry…as well as being impractical to fire (the recoil would be unheard of!). Even if that particular Bolter has been modified to specialize at long range, it is extremely far flung that such a thing could possibly exist with the archaic technology available to the IoM. I am aware that you say you have captured Xenos technology, but I’d still imagine nothing of that magnitude was available to them.

And, as a direct comment to everyone who is not Neo-Roma, thanks oodles for ignoring my existence. I appreciate thoroughly.

Well, in the interests of moving this thing along, I'll just go ahead with the RP regardless of you still not changing the post. Since you've given no counter-arguments, and you've had the opportunity seeing as how you've posted things on here after my post, then I'll just keep passin through and land.

Since when did Azrael go from being Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels to Primarch? And I guess we now know who the two unkown Primarchs are.

Sorry Ive been busy my daughter has been really sick and my fiancees best friend died so Ive been kinda kept busy. As for the space marine thing.


Space Marines are also much taller than a standard human being, somewhere between seven and nine feet high when clad in their power armour.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adeptus_Astartes

Thuse after conferring with Chronosia we determined roughly anywhere from 10 to 12 to 14 foot depending on the Primarch would be an appropriate height. Bear in mind we all know how famous Chron is for being a 40K player and a respectable one at that.

As for the .50 caliber sniper rifle don't make me laugh because that is the sniper rifle used by snipers in the US and Israeli military forces. As well as more and more armies across the world. As for the 1.00 Caliber it is the same round used in the heavy bolter. Yet again it is FT tho so everything is based on theories in science and imagination.

As for Reken's deal those were names he had picked out for his Primarchs just deal with it.

Fine but there are only twenty primarchs and eighteen of them are known, and most of them are dead. And I believe if you look at my post it says bolters use .75 caliber bullets.

Sorry but using wiki by itself isn’t the most reliable thing.

Unfortunately a space marine is not that tall. They are al a very standard height considering that they all have the gene seed from their respective primarchs who received theirs from the emperor directly.


Here is a picture from White Dwarf Issue 333 page 37 talking about Games Day. They mention that they bring a life sized space marine replica to each Games Day and her is a picture of a little guy standing in front of it.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l108/King_Zordos/Spacemarineie001.jpg

If he was nine feet tall I think he would seem much smaller compared to him

A bolter and a heavy bolter are two different weapons. A heavy bolter is the shoulder fired version of the bolter. Also if you read the books their height varies from legion to legion and also from Marine to Marine. Because the ossumodula gland which causes the bone growth which expands their frame and makes them so much larger. Then you have the biscopea which is the organ which encourages increased muscle growth. So if you have a human aspirant who is roughly seven feet tall he's going to make a much larger marine than someone who is say five feet tall.

And quote Index Astartes,

Phase 2 - Ossmodula - A small, tubular and complex organ, The ossmodula secretes hormones that both affect the ossification of the skeleton and encourage the forming bone growths to absorb ceramic-based chemicals that are laced into the Marine's diet.2 This heavily alters the way the Space Marine's bones grow and develop. Two years after this implant is first put in the subject's long bones will have increased in size (along with most other bones) and the rib cage will have been fused into a solid mass of bulletproof, interlocking plates.

Phase 3 - Biscopea - This small, circular organ is inserted into the chest cavity and releases hormones that vastly increase muscle growth throughout the marine's body. It also serves to form the hormonal basis for many of the later implants

In the books it is said a space marine can crush a human skul with little effort so if you read Flight of the Eisenstein it says that when Rogal Dorn pulled a punch he really hurt Garro. It also states that had he thrown a real punch he probably would have killed him. Also Tal's assumption about the coilgun was essentially right. If you want specific examples Ill get them to you. Regardless read the micka fricka books.

Also we created Primarchs just so you know but it is such a hard and time consuming process that you can't make an army of them also it is dangerous i.e. Horus and Lorgar for example.

Drath, are you attacking my fort now or still the stranged Dracian soldiers? And an orbital bombardment of my area would be hard to do, considering you'd have to get through the fleet I have overhead protecting me from such.

No Braze just told them to try to push into position and they arent attacking your fort but rather the outlying troops.

I never challenged a space marine’s strength I know they are strong, but my men are not what you would call normal human.

I didn’t say every space marine was exactly 8’2. I said they have a limited height range due to the fact they all have a gene code.

What outlying troups?

Yes they do but like you said the genetic material comes from their Primarch who shared their genes with the Emperor. The Primarchs varied in height, build, and look. Roboute was one of these larger primarchs. Regardless of where their DNA came from they were genetically engineered rather than genetically modified like Space Marines. Meaning that a Primarch can be of any height, build, and look they were engineered for. Yes the Adeptus Astartes have a height range. Like Pasanius in the Ultramarines novels, he was a much larger Space Marine bordering on the 10-11 foot maximum height and had to have his armor made with parts cannabalized from a set of Terminator Armor. But the gene-seed can make different Marines change in their appearance closer to that of the Primarch. In fact if you read the books it often mentions how the gene-seed has a tengency to shape them in the image of their Primarch.

Alright I can live with that.

Oh yes I have been asked to tell you all though GC is not really involved anymore he will be gone today and tomarrow.

Also Tal's assumption about the coilgun was essentially right.

Yeah, it's right, but bolters are not coilguns, so the ability of a bolter rifle to make a dead accurate shot at over a mile distance is still tenuous.

Neo-Roman Marines' firearms are coilguns, which is why they can throw comparable caliber projectiles to the bolter at long range and reasonable accuracy.

Well the M107 .50 caliber sniper rifle can send a round 4.23 miles with some decent accuracy so a coilgun/bolter rifle firing a 1.00 caliber round with deadly accuracy at 1.5 miles especially with a highly trained sniper behind it is entirely possible. Also you deal with the fact that we had a guy who with the proper scopes could make a dead shot from nearly two miles out with the M107. However he was a Spec Ops Weapons Sergeant with years of experience as a sniper. How do we know these distances are roughly true? Well near the border of Mexico you get a little bored and well you are ordered to do target practice.

Yeah, but you must remember, the last wargames and drills and such we did, Canadian snipers were better shots, could fire greater distances with better accuracy, and just overall more 1337 with teh snipz rifle than americans.

Well, I’d imagine that if .75 caliber rounds are rare, that 1.00 caliber rounds are non-existent.. . .

. . . Also, you bring up the range of a large caliber weapon. 50 cal snipers can shoot what, a mile and a half? And how accurate is that? It’s a simple matter of gravity. The larger the round, the more it is affected by gravity, hence why rounds larger than .50 calibers are rarely used (so much so in fact, I’ve never heard of one being larger than 20mm) for personal firearms. You would need a ridiculously enormous amount of propellant to fire as accurately as you claim, at a range of a mile and a half, with a 1.00 caliber round. And a round of that magnitude would surely be large and unwieldy to carry…as well as being impractical to fire (the recoil would be unheard of!). Even if that particular Bolter has been modified to specialize at long range, it is extremely far flung that such a thing could possibly exist with the archaic technology available to the IoM. I am aware that you say you have captured Xenos technology, but I’d still imagine nothing of that magnitude was available to them..

ok so considering that a 50 cal round is made out of what steel or iron right? considering the alloys and metals used in the tek of the 40k universe if you do not think that they have used a metal that is lighter than what we use today for a sniper type of weapon you are rather juvenile. and on the other hand you need to consider that the round may have not been a solid object making it lighter still. and the 25mm round shot out of the U.S. IFV can easily be held in the hand there is no reason someone with the strength of an Astartes would be able to carry ample ammunition to supply a sniper weapon. and you need to define "I’d still imagine nothing of that magnitude was available to them.."

Since when did Azrael go from being Supreme Grand Master of the Dark Angels to Primarch? And I guess we now know who the two unknown Primarchs are.

and to put my two cents in on this, just because they carry the same name it does not make them the same person. Azrael is also a name. its like saying that i know two guys name joe so they must be the same person. that just f*cking stupid.

Also just so you understand the caliber refers to the diameter of the bore of the barrel in inches so a .22 caliber rifle has a .22 inch diameter bore. So hold a .50 cal round the double it's size that's a 1.00 caliber round. I.E. a 1.00 caliber round is a what? Survey says 25mm round currently used in the M242 Bushmaster Chain Gun on the M2 Bradley IFV and the currently under development XM109 Barret Sniper Rifle which is designed to be shorter and lighter weight than the current M82/M107 .50 caliber rifles. Now I can tell you from personal experience that one male soldier could hold the barrel to said weapon and at the same time carry a number of rounds for it in a rucksack. So a Space Marine who can crush rocks in their bare hands with ease should be able to easily carry such a weapon in rifle form with a significant surplus of ammunition. Now if a Space marine could do that then I think a Primarch could easily do the same.

Having read the IC thread of yours... A bit, here and there and every now and then, I was wondering whether it'd be possible for me to do an Ermorian incursion there somewhere. Nothing too serious that would draw too much attention, like raiding some outpost or equivalent while you guys are concentrating on beating the crap out of each other. It'd be in-character for my nation as you would expect it to be looking for ways to weaken the living where it can, when it can.

If you don't know what this nation is about, it's the "resurrected" Ashen Empire of Ermor (former name was "Ermor", a nation which is still extant but I kind of gave it away and don't really feel like telling the guy to give it back either - not to mention that this nation is bigger and older, although the age timer is a bit screwed up). If you don't know what that is, it's an undead empire bent on death on an Universal scale, as a means to honor the Lord of the Underworld and to turn it into another realm which would be under his control. It came rather literally from the ashes of the Holy Empire of Ermor, which was "past fantasy tech" nation that turned into a realm of the undead, and has been for the last 3 or so real-world years an FT nation with lots of fantasy elements. They don't generally go off picking that many fights because there's no need for them to do that, as they have all the time in the world to finish the job. It has spread here and there, kind of like cancer, and has gone to a point where trying to destroy it would be pretty much futile.

So, uh... What do you guys think? Or do I go pester others with wars going on? ;p