NationStates Jolt Archive


Earth: 800,000 BC (Past Tech/Fantasy Tech Sign up/OOC Thread)

The Steppe Empire
28-09-2007, 20:45
This is the Sign Up/OOC Thread for a New RP Idea I came up with.

The Year is 800,000 BC; the antediluvian world. The Flood has not happened yet and Four Great Nations are ruleing the World, Mu, Lemuria, Pacifica and Atlantis. Barbarian Tribes and Kingdoms live in the areas of Thule (Modern day Canada, Alaska, and Greenland.), Hyberboreia (Modern day Northern Europe and Siberia), Ethiopia (All of Modern Day Africa and The Middle East) and Mongolia (The Modern day East Asia, Japan, Southeast Asia and Central Asia) and in what is called India, The Rama Empire, ruled by Rama II, son of Rama the Hero, is becoming a Power on it's own.

But The World is Changeing, Great Upheveals among the Four Great Nations have caused Chaos and now, It is nearing The Breaking Point. The Great Ice Age is nearing a end as the ice melts away.

This is The World of 800,000 BC

Factions: (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13092645&postcount=31)

Atlantis: Cymrea
Mu: Kahanistan
Pacifica:Maldorians
Lemuria:
Hyperboreian Tribes and Kingdoms:
Thulese Tribes and Kingdoms:
Ethiopian Tribes and Kingdoms:
Mongolian Tribes and Kingdoms
The Rama Empire:
Osiria:
Lanka:

Note: The Hyperboreian, Thulese, Ethiopian and Mongolian Tribes and Kingdoms Are for more then One Player, they are Multipayer Fractions.

The nations have Elite Units that they can use in any wars. The Tribes and Kingdoms can make more Elite Units, so can the Four Nations and the Rama Empire. But they have Main Elites.

Atlantis: Death Ray Divisions, Atlantian Quinqueremes, Battleairships
Mu: Muian Submarines, Muian War Airships
Lemuria: Lemurian Knights, Skyskipper, Airships
Pacifica: Pacifican Samurai, Giant Junks, Dragons, Gunpowder Artillery Units, Airships
Hyberboreians: Bersekers, Knights, War Dragons
Thulese: War Mammoths, Woolly Rhino Calvary Giant Wolves
Ethiopians: War Elephants, War Lions, Zebra Calvary.
Mongolians: Missile Calvary, Camel Calvary, Mongolian Heavy Calvary.
The Rama Empire: Vimana Aircraft, Vimana Chariot Fighters, War Elephants, Monkey Warriors Airships
Osiria: War Chariots, War Elephants, Osirian Death Ray Gunners, Airship
Lanka: Rakshasa Assassin, Palace Guards, War Elephants, Flying Chariots, Giant Airship.

Races:

Humans (Homo Sapien): Humans are the recent race on Earth at this Time, They are on almost every Continent save for the South Poler Continent and they are the main races on Atlantis, Mu, Lemuria, Osiria and The Rama Empire.

Neanderthal (Homo neanderthalensis): a Speices of Human, The Neanderthals have started getting fewer with the Ice Age nearing a End, they will survive after this, till 10,000 BC. They Live in Thule and Hyperboreia.

Homo erectus: The Oldest of the Human Speices, these have been dieing out slowly as other Humans have started Spreading. Homo Erectus lives in Lemuria as a Serf Class, but with more rights then any Serf Class in the world, they even are part of The Lemurian Military

Hobbits (Homo floresiensis): These Small Humans live on the Island of Flores near Lemuria. They can be used to sneek into enemy Camps.

Elves: a Humanoid being, fairer then any race, Pointed ears are what they are known for, along with their Archery Skills.

Dwarfs: a Short Humanoid, The Dwarfs are natives of Thule and Hyperboreia, but they range over most of what is now Europe, Asia and Africa. Thet are expert Miners and Knowsn to use the Axe in Warfare. They ride on Small Ponies and Dwarf Mammoths in to battle.

Vanaras (Vanarapithicus Indus): The Vanaras are the Monkey Men of The Rama Empire, They are good warriors, they helped Rama The Great in his war again Ravana and the Demons of Lanka. Hanuman is the best known of this race.

Werewolf: The Werewolves are Humans that have The Power to turn into Wolves. These monsters hunt humans of any type.

Rakshasa: Demons of India, these live on the Island of Lanka (Known as Sri Lanka to day). According to Tales in India, rakshasas were created from Brahma's foot; other sources claim they are descended from Pulastya, or from Khasa, or from Nirriti and Nirrita. Legend has it that many rakshasas were particularly wicked humans in previous incarnations. Rakshasas are notorious for disturbing sacrifices, desecrating graves, harassing priests, possessing human beings, and so on. Their fingernails are venomous, and they feed on human flesh and spoiled food. They are shapechangers, illusionists, and magicians.

Vampire (Homo Nocturn): Blood Sucking Beings, these monster live only at Night, as UV rays from the sun kills them. They can turn into a Bat or Mist and need to feed on Human Blood.

Dragons: their are two types of Dragon, the Eastern Dragon (Draco Oriental) and the Western Dragon (Draco Europanus). The Western Dragon is a War Mount in Hyperboreia.

Giants: Large Humanoids that can grow to 120 Feet Tall or bigger, They are able to fight even Dragons and The Large Mammoths of The Antediluvian World

Merpeople (Homo Icythis): Half Human, Half fish, these beings are also known as Sirens or Sea People.

Gnome: The Smallest thing in the world at this time, they live in the woods and Forests of Hyperboreia and Osiria.

leprechaun: a Small Humanoid, cousin to Gnomes, They live in Hyperboreia and survived The Flood in later times. Now Live in Ireland.

The Lion-Men: Humanoid Lions, these beings live in Ethiopia. They were made by Atlantean Scientist to force Ethiopia's Kingdoms to bow to them, but Te Lion Men soon broke free of the Atlanteans and lived free from humans. Some Females (Lioness-Women) have even mated with Humans.

Eurasians: Humanoid Wolves, They were created by The Atlanteans as slaves, till they Rebeled, the Atlanteans killed them all save for 500 that escaped to Hyperboreia. They make up 20% of the Tribes and Kingdoms of Hyperboreia.
The Steppe Empire
28-09-2007, 21:34
Bump
New Brittonia
28-09-2007, 22:07
so. . what is atlantis?
The Steppe Empire
28-09-2007, 22:21
so. . what is atlantis?

This is Atlantis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis)
Jenrak
28-09-2007, 23:34
Isn't 800,000 BC a bit too far back?
British Londinium
28-09-2007, 23:36
800,000 BC would be several hundred thousand years before the Neanderthals showed up; basically, you'd have roving bands of pre-humans roaming around in the Near East, Europe, and Africa, not any kind of recognizable polity.
Jenrak
28-09-2007, 23:50
800,000 BC would be several hundred thousand years before the Neanderthals showed up; basically, you'd have roving bands of pre-humans roaming around in the Near East, Europe, and Africa, not any kind of recognizable polity.

Yeah, luckily he said fantasy, otherwise there would have been a giant flaw with this thread.
Jenrak
29-09-2007, 00:52
Regardless, there is a flaw in what he has said.

Antediluvian world = pre-flood world of the Bible
Biblical world = ~6500 years old
802,000 years ago > 6500 years ago

So are dinosaurs, but who cares?
Murra
29-09-2007, 02:13
Nitpick: Hataria never said any of these were human nations. For all we know they could be sentient dinosaurs, or sentient lemmings, or sentient cows (although imagining a dinosaur or a lemming or a cow in a submarine or airship brings on a rather uncontrollable fit of giggles from yours truly).
Jenrak
29-09-2007, 03:03
Nitpick: Hataria never said any of these were human nations. For all we know they could be sentient dinosaurs, or sentient lemmings, or sentient cows (although imagining a dinosaur or a lemming or a cow in a submarine or airship brings on a rather uncontrollable fit of giggles from yours truly).

I highly doubt the Thules or the Mongols come from dinosaurs.
The Steppe Empire
29-09-2007, 03:05
Nitpick: Hataria never said any of these were human nations. For all we know they could be sentient dinosaurs, or sentient lemmings, or sentient cows (although imagining a dinosaur or a lemming or a cow in a submarine or airship brings on a rather uncontrollable fit of giggles from yours truly).

This si the OOC Thread by the way oh and Dinosaurs were gone by 800,000 BC, They were killed off around 65 MILLION BC.

Oh and Humans were around in 800,000 BC in real life, But They were (as far as we know,) in The Stone Age along with Java Man and Neanderthals and The Hobbits.

and if you are going to ruin a thread make one of your own to ruin.
Murra
29-09-2007, 03:16
This si the OOC Thread by the way oh and Dinosaurs were gone by 800,000 BC, They were killed off around 65 MILLION BC.
I know that. <<

Oh and Humans were around in 800,000 BC in real life, But They were (as far as we know,) in The Stone Age along with Java Man and Neanderthals and The Hobbits.
None of those were actually "human" in the sense of Homo sapiens. Homo erectus and earlier betas of the current human being were around, but they definitely didn't have any semblance of what we think of as "civilisation". In short, not enough imagination.

and if you are going to ruin a thread make one of your own to ruin.
Already done.
The Steppe Empire
29-09-2007, 03:16
Oh and I am looking for a Map maker to make a map of the Antediluvian world, to make sure that Everyone knows where the areas are.

Oh and Start Signing up Please.:cool::D;)
The Steppe Empire
29-09-2007, 03:21
and to make sure that their is no hard feelings, Those that become one of the Hyperboreian, Thulese, Ethiopian or Mongolian Tribes/Kingdoms can name their tribe/kingdom anything you want.
Ardchoille
29-09-2007, 05:51
Guys, the OP clearly said this is a Fantasy Tech thread. If you think you could RP in it if specific changes were made, point them out -- politely. If the OP doesn't want to make those changes, accept it and go away. It's his fantasy.

Murra, I'm a little concerned at a certain carelessness in your posts. This exchange


and if you are going to ruin a thread make one of your own to ruin.

Already done.

could be read as saying that you had already posted a thread, intending to ruin it. Doesn't sound like a good idea. And, since you haven't made a thread of your own, an unsympathetic person (like, for example, an exasperated mod) could read it as saying that you were intending to ruin this thread. That would be a very, very bad idea.

And did you notice you'd mistaken the original poster's nation name? Careless, very careless.
Kahanistan
29-09-2007, 05:52
See, this is what I am talking about. Using the phrase "Antediluvian world" when it does not fit. Sure, it sounds cool and makes you appear intelligent, but it doesn't fit if you are talking about 800,000 B.C.E.

I will try to explain it again.
"Antediluvian" is a word that is used in the Biblical timeline to describe the period after the world was created (about 6500 years ago) and before the flood that killed everyone except Noah. In the Biblical timeline, there is no 800,000 BCE - it just doesn't exist; the world, according to the Bible, was created some 795,500 years later.
So either change the timeline to fit with the Bible or stop using Antediluvian.

1. The Bible doesn't exactly contain dates, so we don't know how long ago it's supposed to take place. We don't know exactly when the world was created (more accurately, spawned by the Big Bang) and we don't know when the Flood allegedly took place.

2. We know the world is BILLIONS of years old. It's safe to say that 800,000 BC falls safely within the "antediluvian" category.

Now that I've cleared that up... can you describe the special units in greater detail? I'm thinking of joining as Mu.
Otagia
29-09-2007, 06:09
And did you notice you'd mistaken the original poster's name? Careless, very careless.
Well, technically no, as he's currently RPing as a tribe inhabiting Hataria anyway, and claiming to be the last of the Hatarians (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=539204), so Hataria is close enough, ne?

*realises he's correcting a mod*

*hides under a rock*
Ardchoille
29-09-2007, 06:21
Ah, but he's not doing it in this thread, is he?

*realises he's correcting a mod*

*hides under a rock*

[Evil twin Ardchoille] Why hide? Didn't you know we have X-ray vision?

[Good twin Ardchoille] Awwwwww. Here, come on out from under that nasty rock and I'll give you an ice-cream.
Cymrea
29-09-2007, 06:31
Oh and I am looking for a Map maker to make a map of the Antediluvian world, to make sure that Everyone knows where the areas are.

Oh and Start Signing up Please.:cool::D;)


Pointless biblical debates notwithstanding, I officially express my interest, and would claim Atlantis.
Ordo Drakul
29-09-2007, 09:31
Given the premise, I'm wondering if this will be influenced more by Howard or Lovecraft.
The Steppe Empire
29-09-2007, 12:53
Kahanistan: Ok :)

Cymrea: Atlantis it is
Skylar Ferguson
29-09-2007, 14:40
Can i make my own kingdom or take 1 that already exsists like the vikings or celtics.
The Steppe Empire
29-09-2007, 18:10
Can i make my own kingdom or take 1 that already exsists like the vikings or celtics.

........................did you read the first post?:confused:
Jenrak
29-09-2007, 18:14
Is there any special reason why 800,000?
The Steppe Empire
29-09-2007, 18:26
New Fraction added; Osiria (Based in what is now Modern Day Southern Europe and North Africa.)

Elite Units of The Osirians: War Chariots, War Elephants, Osirian Death Ray Gunners.
Jenrak
29-09-2007, 18:36
New Fraction added; Osiria (Based in what is now Modern Day Southern Europe and North Africa.)

Elite Units of The Osirians: War Chariots, War Elephants, Osirian Death Ray Gunners.

Death Ray Gunners?
The Steppe Empire
29-09-2007, 19:41
Death Ray Gunners?

It has a bit of Edgar Cayce in it, ok?

According to Edgar Cayce's readings, this sort of thing is happening on a grand scale. Hundreds and thousands of people are being reincarnated now who carry urges from the once highly technical civilization of Atlantis. The problems they had then — selfishness, slavery and destruction — are being recreated like unfinished business to plague them again. These individuals are often extremists, with innate capacity for great good or great evil. How they meet their karma may well determine the future of our civilization.

Edgar Cayce claimed to have seen in a vision of The past that The Atlanteans built a tyoe of Death Ray that used the Sun's Light, Mirrors and a Crystal.
The Steppe Empire
29-09-2007, 19:46
Oh and I will make a Discription of the Fractions soon.
Gataway
29-09-2007, 20:45
I'd be interested in this but alas I am leaving soon...and I think you mean Factions not fractions
Uaegoslavia
29-09-2007, 22:06
I'm tempted to join, and be an Ethiopian tribe kingdom
The Steppe Empire
30-09-2007, 01:06
This is a Discription of the Factions in this RP with is based in the ANTEDILUVIAN WORLD! (Lightning Strikes and Thunder rolls.)

Atlantis; The Atlantean Republic had replaced the old Kingdom after a long Civil War. This Change has made the Atlanteans became a Military Power in the world of 800,000 BC. A Technological based Civilization, Atlantis has made wonders that are the things of stories. Great Flying Machines, Chariots that go with out any horses, Ships that go underwater.

Yes most of the other 'Civilized' Nations have such things, but The Atlanteans use new typed of power, Solar Power, Wind Power and even the power of a type of Crystal to make these things happen. Atlantis is one of the Great Nations of the Antediluvian World.

Mu; Mainly peaceful, this Group of Islands in The Antediluvian Pacific has recently had to build a Military to keep Mu and it's people save from It Preatory Pacifican Kingdom. It was the first of the Nations to make a Steampowered Submarine. (Since The other three Great Nations, other then Atlantis, have used steam power with great sucess.) The Muian Government is a Democratic Government ruled by the Council of Ten, Elected by the people.

Lemuria; The Southern land of Australia in 800,000 BC is the home of The Lemurian Confederation, a Nation Ruled by not one King, but 50! These people have a military that is made to protect and sevre the people, this is the Begining of what in a few hunderd Thousand Years will be known as a "Poilce Force."

This Military mainly Keeps the Peace in the Towns and Cities of Lemuria and the Islands near it, It's Best Force are the Lemurian Knights who ride on Giant Eagles to stop Bandits and Pirates.

Civilians also help in protecting Lemuria, joining The Military for 10 Years, this was the Start of a volunteer military with pay.

Pacifica: a Militaristic nation, this Land is ruled by a Warrior-King who is in control of the most Powerful military in the Antediluvian World. Crule to others and it's own People, the Pacifican Empire has one goal in mind.......To Rule the world.

But for the first time in 200 years, The Pacificans are being beaten back by the Mongolian Tribes and a Allaince of Small Mongolian Kingdoms. This is showing the world that Pacifica is now the Power it once was.

The Rama Empire: Founded by a Hero named Rama, this Kingdom is ruled by Good King Rama II, the son of the Great Hero who fought the Demon Hordes of The Lanka Dominion and it's Ruler, The Evil Ravana. With the help of the Monkey people known as the Vanaras, The People of the Indian sub-continent have lived in peace. But The Threats of Barbarian Invasion from The North and the greedy eyes of small kingdoms in southeast asia, the Rama Empire had to enlage the Imperial Army and also use a new type of weapon, The Flying Vimana Aircraft, which range from Small, one man Vimana 'Chariots' to Giant Airships. This makes the Rama Empire a force that no one wants to face.

Osiria: The Arch-enemy of Atlantis, the Osirians are a Freedom loveing people, who are ruled by a Elected Offical known as a President. The Osirians live in what is now The Mediterranean Sea, which back in the Ice Age, is a vast, fertile valley punctuated by large, freshwater lakes that sat at the heart of the Osirian lands, knowsn to the Atlanteans and the Hyperboeians to the North as The "Athenian Empire" named for the Main Goddess of The Osirians. The Capital of Osiria is the City of Hagar Qim on the Mountain of Malta, now the island of Malta

The Osirians live Simple lives, They have Electrial Power produced by simple batteries. They Farm the land with Iron Plows and live in small towns, there are few Large Cities, like Ke-mut, Ra-Torth and Hagar Qim.

The Osirians have 'Death rays', which are large weapons which use a Set of Mirrors and a Crystal or jem that use the rays of the sun to destroy wooden ships that are still in use by most the Antediluvian World.

Lanka:In what is now Modern day Sri Lanka, The Lanka Kingdom is ruled by The Dreaded Rakshasa, but this Kingdom is weak after the Death of Ravana. But the Rakshasas are planning to regain their lost rank in this world and to take Revenge on The Son of Rama, even planning to kill their King, Vibhishana I, to make sure their Revenge is made true.

Hyperboreia; a Land of Tribes and Kingdoms, the lands of the Northern Regions of Europe is the place where Neanderthals walk, where men were men. This is the Land thet will one day be known from The Vikings, The Germans and The Danes. The Hyperboreians are the sons of The North and great Warriors, They have the might of Steel Weapons and the Giant flying Reptiles known as Dragons.

Thule: The Lands west of Hyperboreia, Thule is where Men ride The Mammoths and The Rhinos, were Great Chiefs and Kings rule and fight to keep their land Free.

Mongolia (Asia) The Mongolian Lands are Harsh and varied, the Mongolians have for years fought the Pacifican Empire and have turned to India as a place for Conquest. The Kings of Sunderia, Pol Pat, and Yin-Chang are Rivals to The Rama Empire.

Ethiopia: The Dark Continent of Africa is the land of The Tribes and Kingdoms of a Golden Age of the vanished world. Ethiopia, as The Atlanteans call the African continent, is a land of Roc Riders, Zebras and Powerful Lion Kings, as the Ethiopian Rulers are called.

This land is Tropical and home to many Animals. Rish in Tales of Gods and Animal Heroes, this land will be the most Colorful ever.

Next Post will be on The races of the Antediluvian World.
Kahanistan
30-09-2007, 01:18
Just how advanced would this stuff be? For example, would these Muian submarines and war airships be capable of mounting nuclear weapons? Conventional missiles? ETC? Conventional guns? Rams? Machine guns?

I just don't want to design a war airship with missile capacity and then be told that missiles won't fly in this world. (No pun intended.)
The Steppe Empire
30-09-2007, 01:33
Just how advanced would this stuff be? For example, would these Muian submarines and war airships be capable of mounting nuclear weapons? Conventional missiles? ETC? Conventional guns? Rams? Machine guns?

I just don't want to design a war airship with missile capacity and then be told that missiles won't fly in this world. (No pun intended.)

The Subs of The Antediluvian era were used to mount Surprise attacks on enemy fleets, They did not have Torpedoes, but They had Rams made of Steel and when they surface, they fire rockets that have High Exploeive Warheads that can blast even a Atlantean Galley into Match wood.
The Steppe Empire
30-09-2007, 03:33
Bump
The Steppe Empire
30-09-2007, 05:10
List of Races in The Antediluvian World

Humans (Homo Sapien): Humans are the recent race on Earth at this Time, They are on almost every Continent save for the South Poler Continent and they are the main races on Atlantis, Mu, Lemuria, Osiria and The Rama Empire.

Neanderthal (Homo neanderthalensis): a Speices of Human, The Neanderthals have started getting fewer with the Ice Age nearing a End, they will survive after this, till 10,000 BC. They Live in Thule and Hyperboreia.

Homo erectus: The Oldest of the Human Speices, these have been dieing out slowly as other Humans have started Spreading. Homo Erectus lives in Lemuria as a Serf Class, but with more rights then any Serf Class in the world, they even are part of The Lemurian Military

Hobbits (Homo floresiensis): These Small Humans live on the Island of Flores near Lemuria. They can be used to sneek into enemy Camps.

Elves: a Humanoid being, fairer then any race, Pointed ears are what they are known for, along with their Archery Skills.

Dwarfs: a Short Humanoid, The Dwarfs are natives of Thule and Hyperboreia, but they range over most of what is now Europe, Asia and Africa. Thet are expert Miners and Knowsn to use the Axe in Warfare. They ride on Small Ponies and Dwarf Mammoths in to battle.

Vanaras (Vanarapithicus Indus): The Vanaras are the Monkey Men of The Rama Empire, They are good warriors, they helped Rama The Great in his war again Ravana and the Demons of Lanka. Hanuman is the best known of this race.

Werewolf: The Werewolves are Humans that have The Power to turn into Wolves. These monsters hunt humans of any type.

Rakshasa: Demons of India, these live on the Island of Lanka (Known as Sri Lanka to day). According to Tales in India, rakshasas were created from Brahma's foot; other sources claim they are descended from Pulastya, or from Khasa, or from Nirriti and Nirrita. Legend has it that many rakshasas were particularly wicked humans in previous incarnations. Rakshasas are notorious for disturbing sacrifices, desecrating graves, harassing priests, possessing human beings, and so on. Their fingernails are venomous, and they feed on human flesh and spoiled food. They are shapechangers, illusionists, and magicians.

Vampire (Homo Nocturn): Blood Sucking Beings, these monster live only at Night, as UV rays from the sun kills them. They can turn into a Bat or Mist and need to feed on Human Blood.

Dragons: their are two types of Dragon, the Eastern Dragon (Draco Oriental) and the Western Dragon (Draco Europanus). The Western Dragon is a War Mount in Hyperboreia.

Giants: Large Humanoids that can grow to 120 Feet Tall or bigger, They are able to fight even Dragons and The Large Mammoths of The Antediluvian World

Merpeople (Homo Icythis): Half Human, Half fish, these beings are also known as Sirens or Sea People.

Gnome: The Smallest thing in the world at this time, they live in the woods and Forests of Hyperboreia and Osiria.

leprechaun: a Small Humanoid, cousin to Gnomes, They live in Hyperboreia and survived The Flood in later times. Now Live in Ireland.

The Lion-Men: Humanoid Lions, these beings live in Ethiopia. They were made by Atlantean Scientist to force Ethiopia's Kingdoms to bow to them, but Te Lion Men soon broke free of the Atlanteans and lived free from humans. Some Females (Lioness-Women) have even mated with Humans.

Eurasians: Humanoid Wolves, They were created by The Atlanteans as slaves, till they Rebeled, the Atlanteans killed them all save for 500 that escaped to Hyperboreia. They make up 20% of the Tribes and Kingdoms of Hyperboreia.

This is all of The races, just to let you know.
The Steppe Empire
30-09-2007, 17:14
Bump
The Steppe Empire
30-09-2007, 19:48
New Faction: Lanka Kingdom.

In what is now Modern day Sri Lanka, The Lanka Kingdom is ruled by The Dreaded Rakshasa, but this Kingdom is weak after the Death of Ravana. But the Rakshasas are planning to regain their lost rank in this world and to take Revenge on The Son of Rama, even planning to kill their King, Vibhishana I, to make sure their Revenge is made true.

Elite Units: Rakshasa Assassin, Palace Guards, Flying Chariots.
The Steppe Empire
01-10-2007, 03:18
Bump, waiting for more people to sign up.
The Steppe Empire
01-10-2007, 16:22
Bump
The Steppe Empire
02-10-2007, 02:47
Bump
The Steppe Empire
03-10-2007, 01:42
anyone else want to sign up?
The Steppe Empire
05-10-2007, 21:10
I am still waiting....................