NationStates Jolt Archive

The Democratic Republic of Trivalvia
Ministry of Foreign Relations

TO: The governments of
The Socialist States of the World Soviet Party,
The Broiling Revolution of Korbonis,
The Archate of Terror Incognita,
The Totalitarian Socialist State of Tigerlan,
The Reformed Democratic State of Naasha,
The Mandalorian Empire of Maldorians,
The Kingdom of Nor nuin Giliath,
The Kingdom of SaintB,
The Holy Empire of Kaotic Order,
The Kingdom of Grufolandia,
The Holy Reich of The PeoplesFreedom,
The Socialist Catholic Republic of Czechalrus,
The Republic of Qadesh,
The Not-Very-Stable-State of Siriusa,
The Imperial Kingdom of Ezaltia,
The Free Land of Dartia,
The Colony of Errikan Nordenland,
The United Terran Federation of The Fedral Union,
The Holy Empire of Dentara,
The Commonwealth of Blobinton, and
The Allied States of Spectare.

President William MacKenzie hereby invites representatives from all of the above governments to meet in the city of Sussex on the days of Friday, September 18, 2009, to Monday, September 21, 2009, to discuss matters of mutual interest and concern.

Agenda for the Meeting:

Revisions to the Nova Europa Alliance Charter
Examination of both current member status and applicants to the Nova Europa alliance
Cataloguing and Reactivating any Abandoned NEAMC Facilities
Reorganizing or establishing a Rapid Response Force for the NEA


The conference will be held in the Kosh Conference Center and adjoining Delta Hotel. City police and TSIS will provide security, although other nations may provide some additional security forces. Please state number and nature of said forces; regular military or marine forces will not be permitted.

<signature>
Robert Norris,
Foreign Minister

Official Diplomatic Communique

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To: President MacKenzie, The Democratic Republic of Trivalvia; Robert Norris, Foreign Minister The Democratic Republic of Trivalvia
From: President Aszenmil,
The Socialist States of The World Soviet Party

Of course, I shall attend personally.

Signed,
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Alejandro Aszenmil, President of The World Soviet Party.

Official Diplomatic Message

To: Robert Norris, Foreign Minister of the Democratic Republic of Trivalvia.
From: Prime Minister Darren Renner of the Democratic State of Naasha.

I will be attending the Sussex Conference, along with my Chief of Staff and two NSS bodyguards. I look forward to the event.

Sincerely,
Darren Renner.
Prime Minister.

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r77/Dartia/logo1.jpg

To: Democratic Republic of Trivalvia Ministry of Foreign Relations
From: Dartian Office of the President
Re: Conference

Given the overwhelming success of the last Sussex Conference, our government would be pleased to attend the next one, and accept your invitation with great enthusiasm.

To represent our nation, we will be sending newly appointed Secretary of State, Lisa Macaluso. Secretary Macaluso has an extensive diplomatic background, and will be authorized to speak on behalf of our nation as a whole.

Please relay our thanks to the people of Sussex for showing our region their hospitality once again.

Sincerely,
Allesandro Valerio
Dartian President

To: Trivalvia
From: Siriusa
Re: Sussex Conference

Greetings.

We would be delighted to send our representative. Of course, by that, I mean that I, myself, will be attending personally.

Sincerely,
Jacob L. Sirius
Royal Prince
Siriusa

OOC: The "Not-Very-Stable-State" title was a joke, just letting you know. In the NS world I'm the Principality of Siriusa

The Kingdom of SaintB shall be sending myself, Benard I and my minister of foriegn affairs Lord Richard Long. We will be accompanied by a 6 member squad of Golden Lions, The Kingdom's finest soldiers.

"Saint" Benard I, Monarch of The Kingdom of SaintB

The Errikan Empire hereby announces its intention to be involved in this Sussex Conference. We plan to gather an official delegation and provide further information shortly.

-Emperor Christian I,
Sovereign of the Errikan Empire

The Mandalorian Empire will be attending. The Mandalore himself along with a small detachment of Mandalorian Brutes shall attend the meeting.

~The Mandalore.
-Supreme Ruler of Maldorians.

Imperial Decree

The Empire has organized our delegation to be sent to the conference. The Emperor himself shall be attending, as shall Crown Prince Frederick; additionally, Charles Richards and Thomas Kaiserburg, high diplomats, shall be attending as well. There shall also be staff and retainers.

http://www.taivaansusi.net/roolipelit/lindefirion/flags/vaakuna-gondor1.gif

Official Communique

The Kingdom of Nor nuin Giliath is pleased to take part in the Sussex Conference. The Prime Minister shall be attending the conference personally.

Signed,
Richard Gharios
Prime Minister

[OOC: Noted, Siriusa - I didn't have a list of formal names, so I had to go by the list of names in the region page. Sorry!

I'll wait another day for others to post their involvement, and then President MacKenzie will give a welcome speech / opening statement.]

All responses thus far have been recorded. The Democratic Republic of Trivalvia welcomes all representatives.

Robert Norris,
Foreign Minister

The Imperial Kingdom of Ezaltia, ever a proud member of the NEA, shall be sending Sir Wallace Exavier to the Second Sussex Conference. We hope it will be the same resounding success like the first one was.

[OOC: In light of Trivalvia's unexpected departure... I suggest we continue this thread as before. Let's give the remaining invitees a day to respond and then we'll kick things off?]

bump

OOC: Since Trivalvia's PC issue turned out to be less severe than expect, I am in favor of giving him a few weeks to return before we continue with this thread.

OOC: Since Trivalvia's PC issue turned out to be less severe than expect, I am in favor of giving him a few weeks to return before we continue with this thread.

OOC: Okay.

[OOC: Less severe, but still hard on the old pocketbook. Guess I'm living off of macaroni and cheese for a while :rolleyes:

Since a few new IC crises have emerged in my absence, shall we cut to the chase, or do we want the new IC crises to resolve and create a formal policy later?]

OOC: I am in favor of getting started.

OOC: I agree with Dartia.

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Official Government Statement of Tigerlan

I, on behalf of the people of Tigerlan, Thank our fellow Nova Europeans for inviting us to this conference, I shall be attending personally.

Sincerely,
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Fuhrer of The Totalitarian Socialist State of Tigerlan

President MacKenzie's Opening Speech to the delegates:

Fellow delegates, I wish to thank you all for attending, especially in these troubling times.

A 20th Century writer once remarked that any day he wakes up without his home pillaged and burned and his children killed or sold into slavery is a good day.

It is a sobering thought - we take civilization for granted, we assume that the safety of our people will continue forever and ever. And in this day and age, with nuclear and orbital weapons, with vast naval fleets and armed divisions, for us to assume that our safety is 'for granted' is foolish at best, suicidal at worst.

To take civilization for granted allows ambitious leaders and generals to play games with ideology, with real soldiers as the playing pieces. Nations go off on their holy crusades - be it to eliminate communism or to forment socialist revolutions, or to convert everyone to a specific creed or contraiwise destroy a specific creed. Yet it is rarely the leaders that suffer - it is our civilian populations, it is the soldiers we ask to fight and die in the names of our civilian populations.

In an age of large militaries and the desire to use them with impunity, people must be able to hold the line against the darkness of war and savagery. To say: "Whatever our beliefs, whatever our philosophies, we are willing to live together, and we are willing to help each other, and to defend each other. Whatever our countries or races or religions, we are willing to hold ourselves to a higher standard, to treat each other with respect, to correct each other when our neighbors go wrong - and be corrected in turn. To defend against aggression, and not be aggressors ourselves."

It is in this spirit that we are here, to revive and expand the Nova Europa Alliance, to provide a place of civilized safety for our collective peoples, and to set standards of behaviour for our members. To provide a single voice with which to address the world, and an example of stability for others to follow. It is my personal hope, that by the end of this conference, we will all be able to affirm this vision of a peaceful and safe continent, and a beacon of peace for the world to look towards. Thank you.

The floor is now open for other delegates to speak.

Prime Minister Darren Renner's opening remarks

Thank you, President MacKenzie, and thank you to the city of Sussex for once again providing such an excellent venue for these talks. This city itself is a testament to the loyalty and tenacity of the Nova Europan continent, having been the first to play host to allied forces aiding the Trivalvian people during the Green Revolution.

It is with great hope that I also look forward to the revival and expansion of the Nova Europa Alliance. I would like to be among the first to offer a political, economic and if necessary, defensive hand to our neighbours.

In turbulent times such as these, presenting a strong and united face to the world will go a long way to preserving the relative peace our continent has enjoyed. I am sure other delegates will have ideas on how this can be achieved, I know I will be putting forward some suggestions later, but for now I have but one proposal to make.

During the Green Revolution, I was honoured to be amongst those nations assisting the overthrow of President Harrington and his isolationist ways. Included in these was the withdrawal of Trivalvia from the Nova Europa Alliance, and although Trivalvia has still been counted amongst our ranks up until this time, I would like to formally invite them to re-enter the alliance.

[Bump]

President Aszenmil's opening remarks

Indeed, these have been troubled times for the Nova Europan Alliance. With Ackistan off the game and Trivalvia, thankfully no longer, under the control of Mr. Harrington, this treaty which bonded all of us was on the verge of dissapearing.

But, we stood united and managed to drive Mr. Harrington and his Clandonian pals off the continent, showing the world that we have nothing to fear from them.

Still, with so many new nations joining us, a new issue appears, what to do? how do we help these newcomers to put aside their petty conflicts in favour of unity and peace?

Today, we are together to discuss how to achieve that peace, and establish a new regional pact which will hopefully solve our problems for once and for all.

The really, really, messed up nation of Blobinton will send someone. Since we're almost certain that some maniac who wants a few political freedoms will kill whoever we send, we can't tell anyone who we're sending. Thank you for your understanding.

The Man
B.S.P. Director

[OOC: Blobinton, Tigerlan - your attendance is noted. Welcome to the conference.

Anyone else wishing to make opening statements is free to do so, but I'll move ahead to Trivalvia's position on revisions to the NEA Charter.]

Item One: NEA Charter

First, Trivalvia accepts Naasha's invitation to formally rejoin the Nova Europa Alliance. It is good to once more stand with such good and honourable nations.

Now: it is the belief of this government that this Alliance should take a position of human security, both in domestic affairs, and in foriegn relations. A stable alliance depends on stable governments, and stable governments depend on stable nations, economies, environments, and cultures.

[OOC: For details on Human Security, this link is a good introduction - Wikipedia Entry on Human Security (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_security) ]

Basically, we call on this alliance to enshrine the following practices within its Charter:

1. To assist all member nations to attain high standards of living, through promotion of human rights, and sustainable development.
2. To render aid to nations whether inside or outside of this Alliance, should conditions have forced said nations to collapse, be it from environmental catastrophe, economic meltdown, or political oppression, in accordance with the basic principles of Human Security, with the goal of leaving behind safe and stable communities, rather than propping up governments.

We also believe that new members to the Alliance should accept the principles of Human Security, and that existing members assist new members in making a transition to a policy of Human Security.

Lastly, a member nation that consistently violates the principles of Human Security, should be subject to disciplinary measures from the Alliance.

*bump*

OOC: Short bump.

IC:

"We agree with the Trivalvians in that the NEA should turn into a much more humanitarian organization, so as to avoid cases like Harrington's springing up."

Before we begin, I would like to thank the Trivalvian government for hosting this summit. We always enjoy your hospitality, and have high hopes that this conference will yield great results in terms of regional security and stability.

Our nation does not officially belong to the NEA at present. We were charter members, but withdrew from the alliance many years ago. Our decision to leave was prompted by NEA’s lax admission standards. At the time of our departure, nations we knew little about were being admitted into the NEA as full members. While some of those nations proved to be worthy allies, we were disappointed that many were prone to erratic behavior and betrayal.

Those troublesome members are long gone. Now that NEA membership is not so easily attained, the NEA is a tight-knit group that works well together. While we may not be official members, we like to think our relations with the NEA are on par with that of a member nation, and hope to leave this conference as a member once again.

The principles of human security as described by Trivalvia seem sensible enough, and closely resemble our nation’s own policies. However, we would prefer the NEA to remain a simple economic/mutual defense organization. As human security is broadly defined, we see great potential for disputes over the specifics.

Instead, we prefer a two tier alliance system, which could resemble something like this:

Tier 1 Member
- Free trade agreement
- Non-aggression pact
- Extradition treaty
- Diplomatic exchange with all member nations

Tier 2 Member
- Mutual defense pact
- Eased travel restrictions

To become a first tier member, a country would need endorsements from any two NEA nations. To upgrade from tier one to tier two, a nation would need to get two endorsements again from existing tier two nations, and all tier two nations would have veto power over tier two membership applications.

President MacKenzie nodded as the Dartian representative sat down. The Dartians had raised a few valid concerns, and they needed to be addressed.

"I believe the Dartian system of a two-tiered membership within the NEA to be a good system. If I may make a few suggestions:

"Both tiers of members should adhere to human security protocols within their own borders. Those that do not - or cannot - would remain in the second tier, although first tier members should assist in raising second-tier members to first-tier status as best as possible.

"Outside of the alliance's borders and the basic defensive nature, my goal for introducign human security is to establish a protocol for any NEA operations outside our sphere of influence. There may come a time when a member nation of the NEA - or the full might of the NEA itself - may be called upon to remove an aggressors ability to attack. There may be nations damaged by wars that the NEA can help. If we involve military forces in such operations, then human security protocols should be employed. Failure to do so would leave nations open for people who can promise vengeance on their attackers, and can lead to new wars and new hardships, which in turn can affect us here.

"Of course, details and limits on this policy can be discussed at a later time if necessary - but when this conference ends, I would like to see at least a committment to human security from all nations that would occupy the first-tier membership that Dartia proposes."

Prime Minister Renner nodded along with both the Dartian and Trivalvin suggestions before speaking.

"I think the idea of a multi-tier alliance is certainly a good one. Speaking on behalf of Naasha, I can assure our commitment to the idea of human security but I would like to see a set of specific protocols drawn up for NEA use, to eliminate any ambiguity on the subject."

"Dartia brought up the proposal of allowing a nation access to the alliance if it was endorsed by two member nations. I would like to see an additional clause added to that, whereby a nation could be denied access if an equal or higher number of nations objected to the invitation as were prepared to endorse it."

Benard I also spoke:

I would also speak in favor for Daartia's two tier alliance system, and of the proposed human security standards to be set. It has been a long time in coming but I would also ask for my people to be considered for membership in the NEA. We are a strong willed people interested in peace and prosperity only, we build weapons it is true, but it is part of our policy to deter aggression by having superior fire power.
Additionally, we would like to repeat our offer we made earlier in a seperate communique to all Nova European nations for free trade, and embassy exchange regardless of NEA membership.

"I agree with the Dartians, but their idea does raise a probelm.

Let's say, for example. thaT 'X' Nation wants to join the NEA, however, it's citizens disagree with part of the politics included in the tier like, just to name one, the extradition treaty?

Should a country's population have power over their goverment when deciding that? I think they should.

Also, adding to the Naashan, yes, there must be a way for NEA-Members to place a 'veto' on newcomers applications, but there should also be a way for these newcomers to defend themselves against the accusations which prevent them from joining"

Of course, the specific details of the tier system are open for debate. I was merely trying to give a broad idea of what our government has in mind.

Perhaps this would be better then?

Tier 1 - Nova Europa Trade Bloc
Membership Requirements
In order to join the Nova Europa Trade Bloc, applicant nations must have a UN civil rights rating of "Average" or better. Also, the applicant must be endorsed by two NEA member nations. Assuming this criteria is met, the nation applicant nation will be allowed to join Tier 1 unless an existing NEA member nation files an objection. In that event, a simple majority vote will settle the matter.

Tier 1 Agreements
- Non-aggression pact
- Free trade agreement
- Diplomatic exchange with all member nations

Tier 2 - Nova Europa Mutual Defense Alliance
Membership Requirements
Tier 1 nations wishing to join the mutual defense alliance must be endorsed by two existing Tier 2 nations. Assuming the applicant is able to get the endorsement, they will be admitted unless an existing Tier 2 nation objects. In that case, the application will be rejected.

Tier 2 Agreements
- Mutual defense pact
- Eased travel restrictions

Provisions
- The mutual defense pact applies to the region of Nova Europa only. NEA nations are not obligated to defend distant colonies and the like.

Tier 2 - Nova Europa Mutual Defense Alliance
Membership Requirements
Tier 1 nations wishing to join the mutual defense alliance must be endorsed by two existing Tier 2 nations. Assuming the applicant is able to get the endorsement, they will be admitted unless an existing Tier 2 nation objects. In that case, the application will be rejected.


"We feel this last point should be changed to an open vote, as it allows for many injustices. Maybe we could set a permanent council to discuss this issues?

If my memory serves me well, the one we had was disbanded after Harrington forced Trivalvia to leave the NEA."

Going to switch to a mixed IC/OOC format for my response here...

Both an open vote and a veto have benefits and drawbacks that are mutually exclusive. The veto does have, as TWSP mentions, the problem of abuse:

Veto-holding Nation X does not like applicant Y for some reason, IC or OOC. X uses the veto, and Y is shut out. The effort to reverse the veto X used could range from simple to very, very, ugly.

Open vote has the benefit of balancing the opinions of any one nation with that of all the others. But it has the OOC drawback of participation.

To understand how big a problem that is, have a look at the number of nations that were invited to this conference (see my starting post). Now count how many said they'd take part, and then count how many have actually contributed something to the discussion. Now I understand that some people have issues that are outside their control pop up now and again (like my hard drive problem a couple of weeks ago), but we also have to recognize that - no matter how important to the alliance a nation is ICly - if a nation doesn't participate, than their presence in the alliance is the equivilent of propping up a cardboard figure at the council table.

In addition, there are what I'd call the Maldorians Issue (a powerful nation wanting in that has a stained reputation, be it rightly or wrongly) and the Trivalvia/Ackistan Issue (a nation that was critical to the alliance effectively dropping off the face of the map, but held on for tradition's sake).

To try to fix all of these issues, I would like to propose a governing structure that takes a page from the real life United Nations:

The Security Council: A council of 5 full members, who are present for 2 NS-year terms. No permanent members, no executive veto. This council would be the primary decision-making body in regards to membership evaluation, military operations affecting the alliance and peacekeeping operations outside the alliance.

ICly, the 5 full members would be the larger contributing members of the alliance; population, economy, military size, and human-rights record would all be criteria for consideration, and would be reviewed every 2 NS years. That way, if a Security Council member suffers massive damage and can no longer pull its weight, or it's constantly starting trouble in various parts of the globe, it can be removed from the Security Council while retaining its seat on the General Assembly (see below). Please understand that we're not looking for angels to be in the Security Council - I doubt any of us would qualify - but by having these criteria, we can choose the best and most capable of us to be on that council. The Security Council will, after all, have access to the full military might of the NEA, after all, and we'll want our best members represented there.

OOCly, RP etiquette, and availability to participate would be factors in determining members to the Security Council. Again, the limited term allows for nations that can no longer be active participants for one reason or another to back out of the Security Council without disrupting operations.

The General Assembly - all members, be they full members (tier-1) or associate members (tier-2), get a seat and a vote here. The General Assembly will have some secondary responsibilities, such as voting on resolutions that affect the alliance or address some issues outside the alliance that affect us, but it's biggest reason for existence will be to deal with issues that the Security Council cannot resolve.

E.G. A resolution in the S.C. divides the council - say 2 for, 2 against, 1 abstains. The resolution can then be passed to the General Assembly, with its larger voting base, to decide upon (OOCly, this would probably require a seperate thread as a closed RP with an alert to the members). I doubt we'll have such a logjam come up, but it is still a good idea to have a backup decision-making body ready in case the primary one is incapacitated for some reason, rather than the alliance itself fall apart due to a difference of opinion.

Membership in the NEA is the only criterion for sitting on the General Assembly, but members can be suspended from the General Assembly - and denied access to many of the resources of the NEA - as a disciplinary measure (e.g. Associate Member Z is constantly antagonizing, say, Praetonia or Cravan for no reason beyond "I've got an alliance, so you can't touch me, nyah!" The Security Council can ask the General Assembly to suspend Z for a period of time.

Because the General Assembly is a backup governing body, rather than a critical one, absenteeism should not be so much of a problem to our operations.

I would also like to introduce a third-tier member category: the protectorate. A protectorate nation would primarily be a nation outside of the Nova Europan continent which has asked the NEA for protection or rebuilding assistance - or a NEA member nation that has fallen into anarchy (i.e. it has been OOCly deleted - like Ackistan - or ICly ruined by either a bad government or an invading army). Generally, Protectorates would recieve defensive and rebuilding assistance from the NEA, which, using human security doctrine, would concentrate on rebuilding the nation on a grassroot llevel to get it back into a state of self-governance. Protectorates are forbidden to engage in any military actions (they shouldn't be in any shape to do so anyway, being without a formal government or armed force). Should a protectorate engage in antagonistic actions, its protectorate status may be revoked, leaving it at the mercy of the nation it provoked.

I like these proposals OOCly, and would have no IC objections to them either, although Renner will now be pushing to get Naasha a place on the Security Council...

On that, Naasha, I doubt you'll have many problems - OOCly, at least, you've been one of the more active members of the Nova Europa continent.

Interesting.

Yes, count me in.

With all the new provisions being added to the NEA charter, it was becoming increasingly apparent NEA membership was not for Dartia.

While disappointed, Secretary Macaluso continued to smile and nod politely while others spoke. During the next break, she relayed the following to President Vallerio back home.

"The Sussex Conference has been a disappointment so far. Few nations are showing interest in the alliance. While our tier system proposal was well received, other popular new provisions are unbearable. Per your instructions, I will try to secure treaties with select nations individually as the conference is wrapping up.

Have not addressed the British Londinium base in TWSP yet."

Ryan Scope would stand and speak after consulting with Benard in private for a moment. "We don't agree with the Three Teir system, it would seem to me that this system would be an over complication of things, and to have another nation as a protecterate should be a choice made by induvidual states, many nations would not be happy if they had to front much needed government money to another country to improve them and ignore the problems stemming in thier own nation. While a small amount of government money would be spared because of the number of states involved in the project, is the number of protected states grew so would the amount being payed out. Inversly, this could be avoided by putting NEA money into a coffer devoted to protected states but once again, as the number grows the funding is now less available to the others. It would seem to us, the Monarch and I, that the three tier system that is being proposed now is not a feasable system and could too easily become horribly flawed.
I think that perhaps we should go back to the two tier system and continue the discussion on this matter until it has been settled in a way that all of us can agree on before we get ahead of ourselves and accomplish nothing."

Permit me to be frank for a moment...

Our government cannot sign the new NEA treaty as it is being written. While we would like to be part of a mutual defense pact with NEA's existing nations, we do not want to sign on for the human security initiative. We feel such an initiative would be a great financial drain, and would yield little in terms of actual improvement in our security. Furthermore, we are not enthused about the prospect of making it policy to meddle in the affairs of other nations.

Well, Dartia, would you care to elaborate on your concerns with regards to the human security initiative? Exactly why do you think it would not give any improvements in our collective security, and what exactly are the concerns with regards to "meddling in the affairs of other nations"?

If you could put the concerns on the table, perhaps we can come to an accomodation.

Beyond that, I too am a little dissappointed at the general lack of response from the attendees. At the very least, we're going to have a lot of border nations who are not part of the Alliance and that's going to make the issue of continental security that much harder.

Goals of Human Security Advocates
- transform impoverished nations into prosperous ones
- prevent global warming, air pollution, water pollution, etc
- end starvation
- ensure everyone feels safe and secure
- prevent infectious disease
- end social inequality
- ban anti-personnel mines

Additional Goals Mentioned Here
- rebuild destroyed nations
- take on weak nations as protectorates

Essentially, human security means transforming the world around you into some sort of utopia, where nobody goes to war because everyone is content with what they have. We are skeptical that will ever happen.

Attempting to spread a human security agenda would require us to meddle in the affairs of other nations, and there are no guarantees our meddling won't backfire. For instance, if we finance the economic development of some backwards nation, who is to say that nation won’t put their new wealth to use against us or their neighbors? It has happened before. Furthermore, all these backwards and destroyed nations that you want to help will undoubtable have enemies, who will likely object to what we are doing.

Our biggest complaint about human security is that it comes with a huge price tag, and fails to address the greatest threats to our region. The principles of human security are intended to minimize the threat unstable third world nations represent. Unfortunately, those aren't the sort of nations that keep our defense strategists awake at night.

We consider the following to be more legitimate threats:

#1 Nuclear war in our region producing fallout
#2 Large alliances invading one of our member nations
#3 Undesirable elements gaining footholds in our region
#4 Large fleets blockading the Straight of Gibraltar and the Suez Canal
#5 Attacks on merchant vessels in our waters

"You have a good point.

Yes, ensuring everyone has the same possibilities and helping nations develop is nice and good, we agree with that, but before we concentrate on others we should look at ourselves.

Just now, Islamic terrorists are attacking Naashan goverment forces in Surdun (?), Maldorians has beaten the Waldenburgian 'First Spear' operation and The PeoplesFreedoms has initiated hostilities against our close neighbor and friend, Wanderjar."

Valid points, all, and I will concede that now is not the time for an active human security agenda. Trivalvia hereby moves to table the issue of human security. However, we do request that our fellow delegates at least consider the initiative as a possible future course of action.

In addition, with the tabling of the human security initiative, the proposed third tier of "protectorate" members is likewise removed.

I trust this will clear up some of the concerns thus far?

Just now, Islamic terrorists are attacking Naashan goverment forces in Surdun (?)

OOC: Correct, I'll be bumping that thread tomorrow.

IC:

"Very well, shall we move onto continental security issues then? Of the points raised by Dartia, I feel strongly on numbers 2, 3 and 4."

"While maintaining the sovereignty of their owners, I would like to see a strong provision put in place for the defense of, and access to, the Strait of Gibraltar and Suez Canal. Both of these are vital to merchant and naval traffic from a good number of nations represented here."

"I would like to place an obligation on all second tier members to ensure the security of key access points into the region, as well as continental trade and transport routes. This would include domestic security and control also, to prevent the movement of fugitives and wanted persons."

"On the subject of invasion and undesirable forces on the continent, I would recommend the implementation of mutual defensive pacts as outlined by Dartia and to further place a restriction on the colonisation, annexation or purchase of land in Nova Europa by foreign nations. Such an action would have to be applied for, and ratified by the General Assembly. If the matter presented an immediate security issue, it would be presented to the Security Council instead."

"Further to one or two clashes of alleigances that have arisen recently, I believe it would be impractical to impose restrictions on what alliances member nations may join. Instead, I would suggest that Nova Europan nations be compelled to act in the best interests of this alliance, as specified by the Security Council if necessary, in matters regarding the continent."

Trivalvia recommends the establishment of a Continental Defensive force, consisting of units and bases donated and maintained by the member nations to serve as a rapid response force in the event of foreign invasion of one or more member-nations. This force would also be responsible for providing additional defense for any naval access points (such as the Gibralter Strait and the Suez Canal - though, OOCly, perhaps we need new names for them? This is a different continent from Old Europe, after all...)

Exact size of this force can be established later, but we recommend as a starting point that each nation contribute between 5 and 10 percent of its military strength to the force in question.

The Continental Defense Force would answer to the NEA Security Council. and would be limited in mandate to:

1. In the event of an invasion of a member nation by a foreign power, CDF units stationed within said member nation will assist local forces in repelling the invasion, until such time as a larger force or diplomatic actions can end the threat.
2. In the event of prolonged naval warfare and/or state-sponsered piracy and terrorist actions against NEA members, CDF naval units will provide a first-line defense and have the capacity to close off naval access points to enemy vessels.

All other military actions will fall either to the militaries of the individual member nations or to a multi-national task force authorized by the NEA Security Council.

Each member nation should provide at least one base for the CDF, which they will maintain as part of their obligation to the NEA. Military units will be rotated on a six month basis, with units from multiple nations encouraged to work together on CDF duties and missions - this should allow for each member's military to gain access to training and tactics that other member nations employ, and for the member nations in general to feel more comfortable working with each other.

(OOC: essentially CDF forces stationed in your country would become a force you can employ in the restrictions above; e.g. if, say Dartia was invaded, they could use CDF land and air forces to deal with the invaders alongside their own troops, and could order CDF naval forces to seal off the access point the invaders used to get in. They would, essentially, be NPC armies.

Of course, we would need to keep track of what forces are deployed where and at what times, and would have to watch out for potential abuse or even godmodding with the forces. I'm open to suggestions on how this can be accomplished).

Yes, that sounds like a good plan, kind of what the US did and still does with Germany in the novel "Cold War: Part IV".

However, there should be some kind of fail-safe to ensure the CDF does not work to favour their own respective goverments, and to make sure it stays neutral should a civil war, or something like that, erupt in a member nation. Or at least assist peace-keeping forces to try and mantain civilian casualties to a minimum.

Our government feels enough has been said for nations to have an idea if they wish to participate in this alliance or not, and feel it would be prudent to determine who is in and who is out before discussing strategies in depth.

On behalf of Naasha and the Naashan governed territories, I can say that I'm in.

Of course we would be interested. Count Siriusa in.

The Trivalvian government is committed to forming this alliance. We're "in".

What about you, Dartia? I notice you did not state whether you were "in" or not.

Our government will participate. We definitely want to be part of the free trade bloc, and will probably join the mutual defense pact as well.

We are greatly interested. Count the Tyrannical Mandalorian Empire in.

Okay, we've got five confirmeds (six if you count TWSP's earlier statements). To help illustrate this, I took the liberty of copying and recolouring the Nova Europa map:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n26/andrewc3/NEAmembernations.jpg

Pardon the colours... I was in a C&C mood when I made this :D

Gold represents nations who are attending the conference AND who have agreed to the terms laid out thus far, or at least agreed to "give it a try". Grey represents nations who are attending the conference but who have not given a committment - or who have not said anything other than "I'll attend."

Red represents nations who are not attending for whatever reason.

I trust this map will help to illustrate some of the issues we will face in defending this continent.

BTW, TWSP, I plan to modify the map to reflect Trivalvia's unique coastline - this might also mean some modifications to my nation's map, but I have to rebuild it anyway, as I lost the original layered files when my hard drive went belly up.

OOC: A little busy for a full-fledged IC, but I'll just say that I agree to everything thus far and I'd like to continue being a member. Cheers.

OOC: Hey I just realized that this thread pertains to me.... Can someone fill me in on what's going on?

Okay, Spectare:

The Sussex Conference is an attempt to revive the Nova Europa Alliance, a defensive organization dedicated to protecting this continent from outside aggressors. We are a little divided on how far beyond that basic mandate we should go.

The biggest item up on the agenda is the establishment of a multinational armed force known as the Continental Defense Force, consisting of military units donated - or, more approprately, loaned - for the purpose of serving as a rapid-response force to back up any local forces in repelling an invasion. The CDF mandate is limited to defense against external aggressors, and is not to get involved in domestic government issues (like, say, a civil war or one government seeking to pre-emptively remove its political rivals), nor to be used as an invasion force.

There is a proposal also for a two-tier membership system, where top-tier members gain full benefits (including items like free trade agreements, extradition treaties, etc), while second-tier members still enjoy basic assistance in defense.

Governing structure will be a UN-style system, with a Security Council serving as the prime decision maker in military matters and consisting only of top-tier members, and a General Assembly where all members have their say on day-to-day matters.

That's it so far. We currently have 7 nations who have confirmed agreement to the new NEA: Trivalvia, TWSP, Siriusia, Naasha, Dartia, Maldorians, and Ezaltia. Blobinton, Tigerlan, and SaintB are part of the Conference, but have not really discussed matters beyond showing up for the conference (maybe they're just here for the free food? :D)

All nations in Nova Europa have been invited, but attendance has been limited to these ten.

Secretary Macaluso was somewhat suprised none of the other delegates exploded when the Maldorians requested admission into NEA.

"So, Mandalore, you would pledge your nation to come to our aid?"

Okay, Spectare:

SaintB are part of the Conference, but have not really discussed matters beyond showing up for the conference (maybe they're just here for the free food? :D)

All nations in Nova Europa have been invited, but attendance has been limited to these ten.

OOC: I have made several posts... am I being ignored??

As it currently stands, SaintB has already offered to join the NEA earlier in this conference and has yet to see any reason to renig this offer.

OOC: *sigh* No, SaintB, you are not being ignored - hell, I ripped out a proposed third tier on your objection alone, so you are not being ignored.

Your decision to join the NEA is now recorded. Thank you for responding to Dartia's specific question on the matter.

OOC: I guess it is up to the old NEA members to decide who they want to endorse and bring in.

OOC: I guess it is up to the old NEA members to decide who they want to endorse and bring in.

OOC: The 'old' members being Trivalvia, Ackistan, TWSP, Naasha, Wanderjar, you, and me?

I was thinking more along the lines of the people that were members of NEA immediately prior to this conference: you, Trivalvia, TWSP, and Naasha. The nations that need endorsements are:

Siriusa
SaintB
Maldorians
Dartia

We'll endorse:

Wanderjar
Dartia
SaintB
Siriusa

But that's for the moment, we'll reserve other endorsements for later, when we finish reviewing the situation.

Naasha will also endorse Dartia, SaintB and Siriusa. As for the Maldorians, I would like some assurance that their imperialistic days are over. I understand that imperialism and wars are a nations own sovereign choice, but I don't believe that they would fit in too well in the NEA.

We of the kingdom of SaintB thank both Naasha and TWSP for their endorsements and would like to take this chance to offer our assurances that we would do all in our power to honor these treaties and be a good and productive member of the NEA as we are in the EDI alliance.

OOC: *sigh* No, SaintB, you are not being ignored - hell, I ripped out a proposed third tier on your objection alone, so you are not being ignored.
OOC: I wasn't trying to be uppity, it had just seemed from your post that I hadn't been noticed... the free food is nice though.

OOC: SaintB; I understand and I apologize if I was getting uppity there for a moment.

Trivalvia likewise is willing to endorse SaintB, Dartia, and Siriusa for membership in the NEA; we will hold off on endorsing Wanderjar pending some sign on their part that they would want to join this alliance.

Trivalvia also echoes Naasha's concerns with regards to the Maldorians empire - we would be willing to endorse their entry into the NEA provided we recieve assurances their past efforts at forceably annexing land are over.

The United Kingdom hereby adds its endorsements to Dartia, Siriusa, and SaintB, although we echo Trivalvia's and Naasha's concerns about the Maldorian Empire. We do not want any additional agressions directed towards the continent because of him.

Okay, given that Dartia, SaintB and Siriusa both have three endorsements to them and that both want to be part of the NEA, I think we can safely say they're officially in. Here is an updated map showing current regional status and allegiances with respect to the NEA:

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n26/andrewc3/NEAmembersrevised2.jpg

I changed the colour code from last time to more accurately reflect status:

Green indicates nations that are full members in the NEA - their "tier" status may be disputed but they're officially in.
Yellow indicates nations that are attending the conference, but either have not asked for formal admission nor have recieved endorsements to enter.
Purple indicates a nation that has been endorsed, but has not asked for admittance / is not attending the Conference for whatever reason.
Orange indicates a nation that has asked for admittance, but whose entry is in dispute / requires certain assurances or concessions from the applying nation in question.
Finally, Grey indicates nations that are not part of the conference, and whose status with regards to the NEA is unknown.

Two notes on the physical map: first, I altered the map to take Trivalvia's unique coastline into account - I had to move the "British Isles" north a bit to make room. This change is tentative, pending approval. Second, I understand that Ezaltia has changed its claim to "Finland"; I would have made this adjustment, but to my embarrassment I forget which of the scandinavian countries "Finland is". :(

Some Notes with regards to mutual defense.

Of the 7 confirmed members of the NEA, three share sea links with their nearest alliance neighbours but do not share direct air or land links (i.e. for troops to travel from one nation to another by air or land, they have to go through a non-member nation first). Four nations share a land border with one other member nation (Trivalvia-TWSP, Naasha-SaintB).

This has a few consequences:

1. Troop movements will be difficult. Unless we are willing to violate airspace of neighboring non-member nations we could have serious trouble in airlifting support troops to a member nation in trouble. Sea travel is easier, but will take longer. Certainly, local CDF presence in all member nations would be necessary, as that would give the NEA a chance for immediate response to external threats.

2. Blobinton and Spectare become strategically important. Both nations lie inside the continent, and can provide land and air links two all but two NEA members easily. Of course, since they are either landlocked or further in, benefits for joining the NEA might not be so obvious, but I'll leave that to diplomats who know those nations to find a way to court them to join.

3. Mutual Defense or at least airspace access treaties will be needed with certain non-members. Terror Incognitia, if it won't join, especially should be courted for such treaties, as that opens up links between Trivalvia, Dartia, and Siriusa.

Thoughts are appreciated.

Finland's #2. ;)

It is quite important for Blobinton and Spectare to join the alliance, or, at the very least, allow the NEA to use their airspace and/or roads for troop and materiel movement. Tigerlan and TI's permission isn't quite as vital; I'm a short sea hop to TWSP, and Siriusa to Trivalvia.

Perhaps an incentive for Blobinton to join could be docking privileges in Dartia or Spectare?

On a slighty off-topic note: A very good spot for anti-ship guns would be on the coasts of TWSP, Errikan Nordenland, and whoever takes Sweden. Any naval assault of Wanderjar or myself has to be from the Baltic Sea, so enemy ships have to run the guantlet between Denmark and Sweden.

The coastal gun issue is quite easy to solve, I already have well over 5,000 500mm Coastal guns plus AShMs and the likes.

As far as Trivalvia's coast goes, it's accepted, but I'd appreciate it if you could take the the map which we are using (no modified colours) and add it, saving it in .PNG, as .JPG is quite annoying to work with.

As far as Blobinton and Spectare go, I think we'll have to TG them about the issue.

EDIT

Updated Map (Pre-Trivalvian coastline, until it's sent to me):

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x204/Sgt-Alex/NovaEuropaMapNames-1.png

Earlier we discussed requiring applicant nations to have a UN civil rights rating of average or better. Blobinton, Spectare, and Maldorians do not meet that standard, which may have influenced some of their decisions to not request admission into the NEA. Do we wish to reconsider that requirement?

I don't think we need to drop the requirement; but perhaps using it - and assistance to attain a better civil rights rating - as a carrot for entry into the NEA. To my knowledge, it works for the real life EU :)

At the very least, they might gain "associate" status until their civil rights rating improves.

Of course, this is assuming that the civil rights requirement is why Spectare or Blobinton have stayed silent. There could be other issues - IC as well as OOC - in play, including the question of whether joining the NEA is truly a benefit.

I think both Civil and Human rights are a "must" for this organization.

I'd don't think they should be a barrier to entrance in the short term. I do think some commitments should be made to improve poor cases over time though.

I'd don't think they should be a barrier to entrance in the short term. I do think some commitments should be made to improve poor cases over time though.

OOC: Below Average and dropping. I just passed something that lets Maldorians only view government-approved sites..:eek:

Also, at some point we'll ned to determine a policy about nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons.

OOC: Grrr... the city wireless network has been a bee-eye-tee-cee-aitch all day today. My response will be brief, assuming the system doesn't crap out-mid-post.

I agree that we should keep the requirement for average or better civil rights and political freedoms. I would also agree that assistance to nations struggling in this manner would be a must, and some incentives can be offered for nations to improve in this manner (think on how Eastern-Europe nations in real life worked to improve their civil rights records as well as to resolve territorial issues so they would be fit to enter the E.U.).

TWSP, I will attempt to upload the base map tomorrow, network permitting.

EDIT: looks like my earlier post DID get through... given the network went down before I got an acknowledgement, I thought the post had been lost. :/

So long as our member nations show restraint when handing out endorsements, we are not worried about raving lunatics finding their way into this alliance. However, if adding a political freedom UN rating requirement makes everyone feel better, our government does not object.

It seems there is a consensus that the NEA will have 7 members:

1) The World Soviet Party
2) Trivalvia
3) Naasha
4) Ezaltia
5) Siriusa
6) SaintB
7) Dartia

If that is indeed the consensus, we are in favor of adjourning this meeting, and want to meet again with our respective military leaders present to discuss security arrangements.

OOC: : (
Well, since we're not in it, I believe it is fair to agree that the Black Sea strait is still Maldorian. I believe someone was going to bring that up. Just a heads up...

We would like to "sponsor" if you like to call it that way, the nation of Tigerlan, we think they'd be a good adding to our roster, besides having a perfect territory for wargames to take place in.

Tigerlan and Wanderjar do not meet the political requirements you requested.

Perhaps we could be a little lenient with the rules when dealing with past members?

Just so everyone is clear, the requirements for entry are:

* Must have your homeland in the Nova European continent / region
* Must have a Civil Rights rating of Average or better
* May have a Political Freedoms rating of Average or better (this is still up in the air, but some people favour this requirement).
* Must not have alliances that are openly hostile to the NEA and/or one of it's member states (common sense - nobody wants a conflict of interest issue).

And that's about it. There are of course, obligations for members (if the proposed CDF is formed, and I believe we'll be hammering that out next, members must contribute forces to it, and of course, members should be prepared to carry out their alliance duties in the event of an attack), but the entrance requirements are pretty light.

Further, and this is directed to Maldorians and other Nova Europan nations that may want in but don't meet the requirements, not getting "in" at this conference does not mean the door is permanently shut to you. I'm sure that any NEA members would be happy to provide assistance in improving your civil rights and/or political freedoms ratings, probably through advice on handling issues if you need it. Your entry into the NEA may be possible at a later date, and in the meantime, if you wanted to enter into pacts or trade agreements with individual NEA members I don't see a problem with that.

Maldorians is a special case in that said nation has attracted some unhealthy attention, and there is the question on whether said attention was provoked. Naasha, Ezaltia, and Trivalvia have expressed their reservations but we also expressed that some assurances from Maldorians that this behaviour would not be repeated would be enough to address our concerns. That's not a big step to take, ordinarily. Keep in mind that this will apply to other members and future members - NEA members should act on the international stage as if their actions affect the honour and reputation of this organization. Endangering said honour and reputation will likely call for disciplinary action (which is better than, say, having multiple alliances gang up on us and dismantle our nations piece by piece).

My lunch break is coming to an end, but I think this covers the big issues for now.

On the "Black Sea" issue; Maldorians, while I understand you not wanting NEA military traffic, would you be allowing SaintB civilian sea access and territorial waters, or are you claiming all waters right up to the shoreline?

* Must have your homeland in the Nova European continent / region
* Must have a Civil Rights rating of Average or better
* May have a Political Freedoms rating of Average or better (this is still up in the air, but some people favour this requirement).
* Must not have alliances that are openly hostile to the NEA and/or one of it's member states (common sense - nobody wants a conflict of interest issue).

On the "Black Sea" issue; Maldorians, while I understand you not wanting NEA military traffic, would you be allowing SaintB civilian sea access and territorial waters, or are you claiming all waters right up to the shoreline?


If there were more Civil Rights, it would not be the TYRANNICAL Mandalorian Empire...:O
My nations need low political freedoms, it must be corrupt so that laws against corporations are vetoes, thus causing the nation to have a pro-business feel.
Which alliances?


And about the Black Sea. The idea is, I control the place and SaintB would get a reduction on prices as well as Tigerlan. Corporate Alliance members and a few other people would get reductions as well, but other nations must pay the toll, which I feel like raising.

If there were more Civil Rights, it would not be the TYRANNICAL Mandalorian Empire...:O
My nations need low political freedoms, it must be corrupt so that laws against corporations are vetoes, thus causing the nation to have a pro-business feel.
Which alliances?


Point taken on the first and second items, I just thought I would try to keep the door open for you if you wanted it.

As for the third, that's a generic concern and not directed at you specifically. If I, for example, wanted to join a "Destroy Naasha Alliance", just to pull one out of the aether, then I would be in a conflict of interest with Naasha in particular and the NEA in general, and my membership in the NEA would be in question.


And about the Black Sea. The idea is, I control the place and SaintB would get a reduction on prices as well as Tigerlan. Corporate Alliance members and a few other people would get reductions as well, but other nations must pay the toll, which I feel like raising.

Fair enough and thank you for clarifying.

Pardon me while I am frank for a moment...

Our government does not put too much credence into UN rankings. We would personally prefer the alliance to have minimal entrance restrictions. If we rely solely on our good judgment, we can recruit exactly who we want without having to worry about UN ratings. We've been pointing out the nations that don't meet the requirements hoping you would recognize that some of those nations have potential as allies.

Regarding particular nations:

Maldorians - At present, our government has a number of treaties with the Maldorians including a free trade agreement and non-aggression pact. While their government has given us no reason to regret those treaties as of yet, we are not interested in establishing a mutual defense arrangement with them. Simply put, they get involved in enough conflicts that the risks associated with allying with them exceed the likely rewards. As our nation has never been invaded in modern times, it doesn't seem sensible to enter in a risky mutual defense pact, which would likely require frequently military action on our part.

Blobinton - We have comprehensive treaties with Blobinton including a free trade agreement, non-aggression pact, safe passage agreements. As far as we can tell, they care little what happens beyond their own border, and would not make very good allies.

Spectare - We have a free trade agreement and non-aggression pact with Spectare. They have never caused us any problems, and could prove to be reliable allies if given a chance. If they want to join the NEA, we would not object, but we don't know them well enough to endorse them ourselves.

Wanderjar - We realize the Wanderjarians are popular with some of NEA's nations, but we were disappointed with their performance the last time they were in NEA. We would vote against admitting them again.

Czechalrus - We have a free trade agreement and non-aggression pact in place with their government. While they do not meet the political freedoms requirement as it is currently written, we have every reason to believe they would make good allies. If they asked to join, we would be in favor of letting them.

Tigerlan - We have a free trade agreement with Tigerlan. Outside of that business arrangement, our interaction with their government has been extremely limited. If they wanted to join, we would not object, but we are not familiar enough with them to give them our endorsement.

Some Notes with regards to mutual defense.

Of the 7 confirmed members of the NEA, three share sea links with their nearest alliance neighbours but do not share direct air or land links (i.e. for troops to travel from one nation to another by air or land, they have to go through a non-member nation first). Four nations share a land border with one other member nation (Trivalvia-TWSP, Naasha-SaintB).

This has a few consequences:

1. Troop movements will be difficult. Unless we are willing to violate airspace of neighboring non-member nations we could have serious trouble in airlifting support troops to a member nation in trouble. Sea travel is easier, but will take longer. Certainly, local CDF presence in all member nations would be necessary, as that would give the NEA a chance for immediate response to external threats.

2. Blobinton and Spectare become strategically important. Both nations lie inside the continent, and can provide land and air links two all but two NEA members easily. Of course, since they are either landlocked or further in, benefits for joining the NEA might not be so obvious, but I'll leave that to diplomats who know those nations to find a way to court them to join.

3. Mutual Defense or at least airspace access treaties will be needed with certain non-members. Terror Incognitia, if it won't join, especially should be courted for such treaties, as that opens up links between Trivalvia, Dartia, and Siriusa.

Thoughts are appreciated.

Many of these mutual defense issues might be solved more easily. For instance my nation of SaintB and the nation of Spectare have always been on good relations, in fact Spectare and SaintB are members of the Eurasion Defense Initiative together and we share free troop movement and military bases on each other's soil. Perhaps we can push Spectare gently to join the NEA.
Also, a provision in the treaty allowing the creation of joint NEA military bases within NEA nations on land dedicated to this purpose would help alleviate some of these concerns defense. Finally, another item we find pertinanet to mention is plans are in the work between Tigerlan, Mandalore, and SaintB to form a joint task force with the purpose of protecting the Mandalore Canal Zone and Crimson Sea from the predations of pirates and non - Nova European states (we took the liberty of naming them amongst ourselves unless there is a problem with this). All three of us are also Eurasion Defense Initiative members with strong ties to one another.
As for the political freedoms rating... it is known that my nation is a Monarchy with very little if any political freedom, it has proven to be a long and argeuous process to remove the fuedal elements from our society and government to make it a freer and more friendly land to the common man.
(OOC: the biggest problem of course is I get no democracy issues)

We could provide a list of Eurasion Defense Initiative Nations in Nova Europa if you all so wish.

SaintB, that sounds like an excellent idea. Our government has free trade agreements with all the Black Sea nations, and would be willing to contribute a token force towards keeping those waters protected if our participation is desired.

We've been planning to propose something similar to Nove Europa's Mediterranean nations to protect the Straight of Gibraltar and Suez Canal.

We would be pleased to work in conjunction with Dartia and any other mediterranean nations in order to maintain the protection of the Strait of Gibraltar and Suez Canal. Particularly, Siriusa must be involved if the Strait is to be protected.

On UN Rankings - I had thought you were pushing for using those rankings as a measuring stick. My apologies for the error.

If SaintB can bring Spectare into the NEA that would be wonderful, as it would also provide another naval power to give ships for defense of the Nova Mediterrainan. I would also like to suggest that Trivalvia and The World Soviet Party might also donate ships to assist in either patrolling the Nova Mediterranian or guarding the Gibralter Strait or both (probably a small amount compared to our total navies but perhaps it would be useful).

The following is sort of OOC and may be striken if people feel it is out of bounds:

On Wanderjar, Tigerlan, and Maldorians - with the UN ranking requirement removed that might be enough for the Maldorians to at least reconsider entry, although our own reservations might still drive them away. Wanderjar I suspect is going to be a permanent "out" based on the recent thread "The Eastern Powers". This might be enough to rule out Tigerlan, although I suggest we still try to court them anyway.

At the very least, I recommend that we maintain diplomatic ties with these nations, and prepare for the worst... just in case.

Well, yes, Dartia is right, the "UN" rating is not the only thing that matters, and I would be willing to endorse nations such as Czechalrus to be members.

The Eastern Powers though, is a whole different and more worrying issue, I shall discuss it with Wandy and Tigerlan.

We would be pleased to work in conjunction with Dartia and any other mediterranean nations in order to maintain the protection of the Strait of Gibraltar and Suez Canal. Particularly, Siriusa must be involved if the Strait is to be protected.

Of course.

Our government wishes to elaborate upon our last statement… The two tier alliance system exists for exactly these sorts of circumstances.

The tier 1 treaty's primary components are the free trade agreement and non-aggression pact. We consider those sorts of agreements as being akin to saying, "Instead of trying to wreck each other's nations, we should work together to become more prosperous".

That sounds like a pretty good deal for everyone involved, so it is our recommendation that we be extremely lenient when it comes to tier 1 membership.

On the other hand, tier 2 membership should be reserved for nations that have earned our absolute trust. If there is any doubt whatsoever about a nation, they shouldn't get in.

Hm... While I agree with you in principle, Dartia, the fact we have only seven member nations and a hostile alliance forming on our borders might give us some practical problems that a two-tier system may not be able to solve. Especially since one of our newer members will likely be in the direct line of fire should actual warfare break out.

We'll of course have to wait and see how things shake down officially, but we should be prepared to make a few changes some of us might not like in order to preserve and strengthen this alliance. Just a thought.

I have spoken to both Wanderjarian and Tigerlani delegates and they claim that their new alliance is purely "defensive", so as long as we dont attack them, they will not attack us.

However, I think some measures should be taken to ensure that these two groups do not go to war over, let's say, unlawful annexation of non-NEA and non-Eastern Powers nations, such as Czechalrus...

Indeed, so shall we adjourn this meeting and let our defense ministers take things from here?

OOC: Just ignore Wanderjar's Eastern Powers thread. It is a classic example of a player using OOC information IC. Wanderjar has no delegate here, and shouldn't be reacting to what is said at this conference before it has even concluded.

On that same note, when and if Wanderjar creates a legitimate Eastern Powers thread, we shouldn't all act as if we know what they are planning.

OOC: Just ignore Wanderjar's Eastern Powers thread. It is a classic example of a player using OOC information IC. Wanderjar has no delegate here, and shouldn't be reacting to what is said at this conference before it has even concluded.

On that same note, when and if Wanderjar creates a legitimate Eastern Powers thread, we shouldn't all act as if we know what they are planning.

I have a delagate here...So it's not using OOC stuff ICly

OOC: The last time you and Wanderjar were allied was via NPE, which ended in your nation being expelled for traitoring. Between then and now, what changed that caused your nation's leader to attend our conference as a spy for Wanderjar? Also, how are you relaying this information to Wanderjar from our conference room, and why wasn't it role-played?

If the results of the Sussex Conference are going to be the catalyst for the formation of Eastern Powers, that is fine, but the Sussex Conference needs to take place first. Simply put, you cannot react to something before it happens, and it makes no sense for nations at the Sussex Conference to discuss the Eastern Powers when the Eastern Powers shouldn't even exist until after the conference is over.

OOC: If that's the case, then I'll probably deserve a share of the blame - I did help bring the Eastern Powers thread to our attention here.

I do agree that it's time to close the Conference, and let defense ministers and generals hash out the details. If the Mandalore (did I get the spelling right?) wanted to announce his alignment with the EP at that point (think closing statements to the press much as we had opening statements), then that should be enough to bring the EP issue into IC proper.

OOC: The last time you and Wanderjar were allied was via NPE, which ended in your nation being expelled for traitoring. Between then and now, what changed that caused your nation's leader to attend our conference as a spy for Wanderjar? Also, how are you relaying this information to Wanderjar from our conference room, and why wasn't it role-played?

If the results of the Sussex Conference are going to be the catalyst for the formation of Eastern Powers, that is fine, but the Sussex Conference needs to take place first. Simply put, you cannot react to something before it happens, and it makes no sense for nations at the Sussex Conference to discuss the Eastern Powers when the Eastern Powers shouldn't even exist until after the conference is over.

Considering the fact that I have done NO rping whatsoever in this thread except state my arrival, and state my agreement to the NEA, I think it's fair enough to say that more things happened than was written. Concerning Trivalvia's quote below me, that does make sense. The conference was about to close, so who says that my delegate couldn't have left a bit early?

OOC: If that's the case, then I'll probably deserve a share of the blame - I did help bring the Eastern Powers thread to our attention here.

I do agree that it's time to close the Conference, and let defense ministers and generals hash out the details. If the Mandalore (did I get the spelling right?) wanted to announce his alignment with the EP at that point (think closing statements to the press much as we had opening statements), then that should be enough to bring the EP issue into IC proper.

Yes, it's the Mandalore, nice job. The comment regarding the generals and defense ministers couldn't be put in better words.

OOC:Just a small note about Spectare, My Troops and Aircraft are stationed throught his country, his Military is my Military, his Economy my Economy, it would be imposable to use his airspace for troop transport, as access would be denied by the Tigerlanian Air force stationed within Spectare.

OOC: In the end, I think it would be up to him what went through his airspace. Start dictating who or what goes and he could decide to expel the troops.

OOC: In the end, I think it would be up to him what went through his airspace. Start dictating who or what goes and he could decide to expel the troops.

Could He? an official state of Tigerlan, expel its sentry defense forces? I think not.

OOC: The funny thing is... Spectare does not role-play his nation being in our region. He says his nation is in North America (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12998715&postcount=11).

OOC: The funny thing is... Spectare does not role-play his nation being in our region. He says his nation is in North America (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12998715&postcount=11).

That post is from before he joined NE, check the date.

I met him through the EDI, and I recommended NE to him, and introduced him to WSP.

OOC: Err.. I just realized that your trying to use me... No you cannot fly through my place and since my nation is in Defcon 2 any non-Spectarian or Tigerlanian jet's will me pwnt.

OOC: Err.. I just realized that your trying to use me... No you cannot fly through my place and since my nation is in Defcon 2 any non-Spectarian or Tigerlanian jet's will me pwnt.

That better not go for mine... part of the EDI pact allows me to move troops through you.

OOC: Err.. I just realized that your trying to use me... No you cannot fly through my place and since my nation is in Defcon 2 any non-Spectarian or Tigerlanian jet's will me pwnt.

The end part of that post hurt my eyes.

Seriously, I don't see how the NEA is trying to use you any more than the Eastern Powers are through Tigerlan. As it is, you've let us know how things stand at least.

First NEA Defense Strategy meeting is now underway:
http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=13134459#post13134459