NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay. I hate seeing this. Nuclear strikes piss me off in the first place just because they are so uncreative and yet so powerful. Newbs doing it pisses me off, but seeing veteran users do makes me remember why I have left this site three times.

First of all I hate that people think they can just blow some one off the map in one post. Too many times I have seen people have the launch and the impact in the same post. I know that many nations (including my own) have at least one system in place to try and combat nuclear attacks, I have two! Also, in having a launch to impact post you cheat the victim out of making a reataliatory(sp?) strike.

Next on my list, creativity. Nuking your enemy is the most unoriginal thing I can think of. It seems that people fail to realise that the goal of an RP is NOT to win, but to tell a good story and show how creative you are. Sure winning is fun, but it is third in line at best. If you are just in it to win than all you will end up doing is forcing your RP to turn into a God Mod contest until some one fires the I.G.N.O.R.E. Cannons. I honestly don't care about how often some one wins, I'm more afraid of how creative they are.

Now let's get into the science of it, shall we? When newbs do nuclear strikes they at least usually keep the number down. However, when veterans use them they launch thousands upon thousands of them. My problem here is a little thing called Nuclear Winter. This is one of the most likely possibilities of a large scale nuclear attack. According to this theory, the explosions would send catastophic amounts of soot and smoke into the atmosphere. Why is this bad? Can anyone tell me what many people think happened to the dinosaurs? *cough**cough*Meteor*cough* A large scale nuclear attack would easily mimic this theory. I think this just might] come back to bite you in the ass.

Now for more science. When the Chernobyl Meltdown occured in Russia, people as far away as California felt the side effects, including cancer and birth defects. Now if you look at how much damage the gamma rays from a moder nuclear weapon could do, multiplied several thousand times, you're probably gonna fuck up your own nation as well as thousands of others.

Okay... this has vented a good amount of my anger in general... I'll stop here...

*applauds*

10/10!

So, Drex, simply ignore such. Don't bother arguing it, rather, take your fun elsewhere.

So, Drex, simply ignore such. Don't bother arguing it, rather, take your fun elsewhere.

Yea, I know... Just seems that elsewhere is getting smaller, you know?

Nukes must be pre-agreed to by both sides is my policy. That goes for tac nukes too.

Yea, I know... Just seems that elsewhere is getting smaller, you know?

Nah, there's always plenty of space open-you just have to look for the gems amongst the rough.

Hey, if someone wants to nuke...don't forget neutrals will be dragged in to it. I wouldn't hesitate to launch nukes if someone indirectly threatens my country with their attack.

Honestly?

Get over it.

I've said this numerous times in the past: telling people why and how they cannot logically do something has never stopped them, and it will never stop them. There's absolutely zero in-character moderation here, which makes the IGNORE cannon your best and only friend.

If everyone roleplayed nuclear strikes realistically with all the radiation side effects and etc, than some guy could waste everybody. Nobody wants that.

If you don't like nukes, than ignore them. Not that hard.

To a degree, that's valid as well. Given that the NS world is a gigantic Earth many times the size of our own (where countries discover trillions of barrels of oil single-handedly and nations measure their populations in the billions), it's reasonable to assume effects will be more subdued and localized than in the real world.

That's how everyone works it. Otherwise BL's nuking of NC would have caused nuclear winter along with many other nuclear bombings done through the history of NS.

If everyone roleplayed nuclear strikes realistically with all the radiation side effects and etc, than some guy could waste everybody. Nobody wants that.

If you don't like nukes, than ignore them. Not that hard.

To a degree, that's valid as well. Given that the NS world is a gigantic Earth many times the size of our own (where countries discover trillions of barrels of oil single-handedly and nations measure their populations in the billions), it's reasonable to assume effects will be more subdued and localized than in the real world.

*Mimics Vetalia*

[California???]

You do realize that tactical nuclear strikes belong in their own little world, don't you?

Damn Russians. Messed up my home state....

I'm also anti-nuke. I like things as realistic as possible (yes, I know my 3+billion pop isn't realistic), and realistically, nukes should be too powerful to use casually.

Indeed. The threat of MAD and nuclear holocaust are pretty much the only things that have kept them from being used casually in real life. Without those threats... they're bound to go off frequently.

I understand your ranting mate because I hate it when newbs do it too. Many of you may remember the Feline Catfish incident, a dark day on NS.....

But one of the best war RPs ever to grace these forums (A Passion Play- the war is more commonly know as the Golden War of Succession) involved, i think, three nuclear strikes. One I can't remember. The second involved a city port of mine being nuked destorying the largest fleet of my navy. I could retaliate but i didn't because it would ruin the RP. The war needed to be wrapped up because Mac was leaving for army training very soon. I launched a nuke to wipe out some missile batteries harassing my navy.

1MT (or 2 can't remember) detonated on enemy soil and kill tens of thousands. It was RPed well (so I was told) and thus it was okay. The war ended without each side lobbing nukes at each other. It was a great RP that involved nuclear weapons left right and centre and it was still respected by all the great players on NS.

I agree with your newbie bit of the rant, but your crack at veteran players just isn't fair. They know what they are doing and it doesn't disolve into bickering or mutually assured destruction (well not often).

Okay. I hate seeing this. Nuclear strikes piss me off in the first place just because they are so uncreative and yet so powerful. Newbs doing it pisses me off, but seeing veteran users do makes me remember why I have left this site three times.

First of all I hate that people think they can just blow some one off the map in one post. Too many times I have seen people have the launch and the impact in the same post. I know that many nations (including my own) have at least one system in place to try and combat nuclear attacks, I have two! Also, in having a launch to impact post you cheat the victim out of making a reataliatory(sp?) strike.

Next on my list, creativity. Nuking your enemy is the most unoriginal thing I can think of. It seems that people fail to realise that the goal of an RP is NOT to win, but to tell a good story and show how creative you are. Sure winning is fun, but it is third in line at best. If you are just in it to win than all you will end up doing is forcing your RP to turn into a God Mod contest until some one fires the I.G.N.O.R.E. Cannons. I honestly don't care about how often some one wins, I'm more afraid of how creative they are.

Now let's get into the science of it, shall we? When newbs do nuclear strikes they at least usually keep the number down. However, when veterans use them they launch thousands upon thousands of them. My problem here is a little thing called Nuclear Winter. This is one of the most likely possibilities of a large scale nuclear attack. According to this theory, the explosions would send catastophic amounts of soot and smoke into the atmosphere. Why is this bad? Can anyone tell me what many people think happened to the dinosaurs? *cough**cough*Meteor*cough* A large scale nuclear attack would easily mimic this theory. I think this just might] come back to bite you in the ass.

Now for more science. When the Chernobyl Meltdown occured in Russia, people as far away as California felt the side effects, including cancer and birth defects. Now if you look at how much damage the gamma rays from a moder nuclear weapon could do, multiplied several thousand times, you're probably gonna fuck up your own nation as well as thousands of others.

Okay... this has vented a good amount of my anger in general... I'll stop here...

I fully agree with what has been said. Nuclear weapons are not something one should be tossing around. Really they only damage the RP.

Admitedly, having said that, I did use them once... however before we go into that I want to talk about 2 incidents that happened with my Nation and Nuclear Weapons.

The First was back in the days of yor when Nation States was young and the forum was diabolically bad... Dyelli Beybi became involved in an invasion of Fasta Benj, it was one of the stupidest and coincidentally most enjoyable wars I've ever participated in. Basically we both RPed our troops as flagrantly incompetent and more of a danger to themselves than the enemy. But anyway I digress. In steps big brother (I won't name the Nation) demanding we stop invading. Dyelli Beybi begins to spew out loads of ridiculous propaganda, Big Brother becomes annoyed we are 'lying' and threatens us OOCly... Dyelli Beybi allies with numerous Nations including Iesus Christi and TheSilverTurtle (for those who remember the GODAD alliance). Big Brother realises winning now is impossible, furthermore, Dyelli Beybi brokers a peace deal independently with Fasta Benj... Big Brother launches nuclear weapons against Dyelli Beybi, all it's allies and itself. It then says, 'I am deleting my Nation, you are nuked, all your people are dead you have to delete too'. You can guess the response they got, it was two words and the second was 'off'. This is an occassion where the use of Nuclear Weapons is innappropriate.

Now we'll see when it can be RPed properly. During an invasion of a Dyellian Ally, the Drakonian Imperium launches ICBMs with a non nuclear payload at military possitions. The Dyelli Beybian Government mistakes them for nuclear missiles, wets itself and launches nuclear missiles at the Imperium. The Imperium had defences, however they chose to RP two of the missiles hitting major population centres with massive loss of life. What followed was a lot of sabre rattling, diplomatic summits, and an unpleasant civil war within Dyelli Beybi generated by the political chaos brought on by the threat of nuclear reprisals.

Basically, the point of my two boring stories is that Nuclear Weapons can be used correctly, sometimes, however mostly they are abused.

Nukes are a part of the game, like it or not. You really need to get over yourself-nukes are a part of the real world people don't like, and we have increasingly less control over who has them, and we all get by. If you don't like them, just stay out of the threads that mention them and don't waste our time telling us how you think we should play. I recently dismissed a gun control issue because mandatory gun ownership wasn't one of my options-that's not everyone's choice, and I don't tell them all how to run their nations or fly off in a snit because of it.

Okay. I hate seeing this. Nuclear strikes piss me off in the first place just because they are so uncreative and yet so powerful. Newbs doing it pisses me off, but seeing veteran users do makes me remember why I have left this site three times.

First of all I hate that people think they can just blow some one off the map in one post. Too many times I have seen people have the launch and the impact in the same post. I know that many nations (including my own) have at least one system in place to try and combat nuclear attacks, I have two! Also, in having a launch to impact post you cheat the victim out of making a reataliatory(sp?) strike.

Next on my list, creativity. Nuking your enemy is the most unoriginal thing I can think of. It seems that people fail to realise that the goal of an RP is NOT to win, but to tell a good story and show how creative you are. Sure winning is fun, but it is third in line at best. If you are just in it to win than all you will end up doing is forcing your RP to turn into a God Mod contest until some one fires the I.G.N.O.R.E. Cannons. I honestly don't care about how often some one wins, I'm more afraid of how creative they are.

Now let's get into the science of it, shall we? When newbs do nuclear strikes they at least usually keep the number down. However, when veterans use them they launch thousands upon thousands of them. My problem here is a little thing called Nuclear Winter. This is one of the most likely possibilities of a large scale nuclear attack. According to this theory, the explosions would send catastophic amounts of soot and smoke into the atmosphere. Why is this bad? Can anyone tell me what many people think happened to the dinosaurs? *cough**cough*Meteor*cough* A large scale nuclear attack would easily mimic this theory. I think this just might] come back to bite you in the ass.

Now for more science. When the Chernobyl Meltdown occured in Russia, people as far away as California felt the side effects, including cancer and birth defects. Now if you look at how much damage the gamma rays from a moder nuclear weapon could do, multiplied several thousand times, you're probably gonna fuck up your own nation as well as thousands of others.

Okay... this has vented a good amount of my anger in general... I'll stop here...

The thing is, EVERYONE has ignored it. For starters, hasn't Kraven's original homeland been long since turned into a plain of radioactive glass? The fallout from THAT little incident would have turned the human race of even an NS-sized planet into cancer-ridden beggars long ago...had we not ignored it. Then there's the numerous nation-sized executions that AMF has performed. Then there's the giant nuclear coastal guns that everyone in Haven seemed to have back during the Last Good War era. Last year SOMEONE's capital got wasted in a nuclear strike...the list goes on and on. People ignore fallout from this stuff all the time. For starters, we can't judge how we'd be affected because NS is a series of islands/continents that are separated by seas of indeterminate size. Nobody knows how far it really is from Gholgoth to Arterus, for example. Then there are excuses like the underground shelters that everyone suddenly RPs when nukes go a-flying. But even so, it's neither good story-telling nor fun if as a result of an NS-sized nuclear attack I RP everyone in my nation getting fried by the radiation. Nobody wants to do it. So we ignore it. And that is how things will always be.

Damn impressive, I agree with every word. British Londinium recently launched twelve billion or so nuclear warheads at someone, for which he was kicked out of the ADAN alliance, and possibly the UFAN as well. Good riddance.

I personally disagree. While MAD level exchanges usually cease to be entertaining, one or two tactical or strategic weapons can add all sorts of flavor to an RP. Heck, I'm debating the use of tac-nukes in an upcoming war, just for perversity's sake. Nukes are a tool, neither good nor bad. It's how the tool is used that determines whether it enhances your RP or kills it.

Tactical weapons ftw, if you RP they can be fun.

Tactical weapons ftw, if you RP they can be fun.

Precisely

I personally disagree. While MAD level exchanges usually cease to be entertaining, one or two tactical or strategic weapons can add all sorts of flavor to an RP. Heck, I'm debating the use of tac-nukes in an upcoming war, just for perversity's sake. Nukes are a tool, neither good nor bad. It's how the tool is used that determines whether it enhances your RP or kills it.

This is true. I'm not disputing that Nuclear Weapons can be used constructively. Even a MAD level exchange can be RPed well. However, people don't tend to appreciate how real world leaders work. People cannot appreciate the nuances of diplomacy and most especially, you don't fire nuclear weapons unless you really want them fired back!

So are you telling me nuclear carpet bombing isn't good old fashion ole timey fun?

This is true. I'm not disputing that Nuclear Weapons can be used constructively. Even a MAD level exchange can be RPed well. However, people don't tend to appreciate how real world leaders work. People cannot appreciate the nuances of diplomacy and most especially, you don't fire nuclear weapons unless you really want them fired back!
Won't even bother arguing that point, it's too damn true. If RL leaders let any petty jibe start a war, the world would have been glassed a hundred times over, and I'd be welcoming our new cockroach overlords.

I just hope that I'm slightly better in this regard. I mean, my current war has been caused by unsanctioned terrorist acts by a rogue PRA director, the resulting series of diplomatic blunders (Not believing that he would have done it until he up and vanishes, refusing to extradite for fear of kangaroo court, etc), and a decent amount of espionage between Otagia and Romandeos. That's reasonably realistic, right?

So are you telling me nuclear carpet bombing isn't good old fashion ole timey fun?

Nuclear carpet bombing is incredibly idiotic, a good way to lose a lot of aircraft, and a waste of nuclear weapons.

You only need one large nuke, or a few small ones, for any particular metropolitan area or installation, and either can be deployed by a single ICBM.

That being said, nukes with very large warheads are also stupid. I roll my eyes every time I see someone claiming a 1 GT warhead nuke, or putting a Tsar Bomba yield weapon on an ICBM.

I prefer to decimate my enemies by fling massive cargo planes full of liquid gold over their nation, dumping said liquid gold on their population centers, which simultaniously destroys the enemies population, will to fight, and creates some interesting sculptures.

Nuclear carpet bombing is incredibly idiotic, a good way to lose a lot of aircraft, and a waste of nuclear weapons.

You only need one large nuke, or a few small ones, for any particular metropolitan area or installation, and either can be deployed by a single ICBM.

That being said, nukes with very large warheads are also stupid. I roll my eyes every time I see someone claiming a 1 GT warhead nuke, or putting a Tsar Bomba yield weapon on an ICBM.

Its actually kinda realistic in terms of international wanking contests. People build Super Dreadnaugts to, which is basically the same thing as sticking a Tsar Bomb on an ICBM, except that an SD is an easier target.
Nations sometimes build wierd stupid things just to say "Hey, look at us! We have a giant steel penis and we're waving it around! Wooooohoooo!"
I remember a while ago a futuretech nation built a huge revolving cannon which fired saboted Iowa class battleships.

SD's? You mean Super Capital Ships? Super Dreadnoughts are feasible and if the RL world was big enough and there were rich enough then i'm sure they would be around. The more you think about SD's then the more feasible they sound so long as they are designed properly.

Super Caps, now that is truely impossible. I mean this is NS, anything is pretty much possible which is why I designed a Super Cap, but there is no way in hell these things could exist.

Comparing a Tsar Weapon or 1GT warhead to an SD is a thin arguement.

SD's themselves mathematically and all that yes could be built....all the things people put on them....and the number of them some people use is complete bull..

SD's themselves mathematically and all that yes could be built....all the things people put on them....and the number of them some people use is complete bull..

Some people just get out of control when they build those things. And they forget the most important part in building them, practicalaty. Some of the ships, weapons, ect. are practical, but most are as you said a bunch of bull.

The SD is a concept theory so concept weapons are usually used. If a country can afford to design an SD then they most certainly can create a 25" cannon. I agree that many SD's are over armed, but if you think that 25" cannons and hundreds of VLS cells on an SD is bull then i think that's wrong again.

The space is there to be used and not wasted thus huge amounts of VLS cells and guns exceeding 18 inches is more than possible. It is just stupidly expensive. Unlike a 1GT nuclear warhead which, in all sense of the word, is pointless when you could use 1MT or even KT to accomplish the obliteration of a city.

Super Dreadnoughts are useful, they draw fire and they can deal some serious return fire. They are a great asset, people find it hard to accept them because in RL they are realistically impossible.

SD's themselves mathematically and all that yes could be built....all the things people put on them....and the number of them some people use is complete bull..

They could be built, yes. And they could be armed, too. And you could build a lot of them. The reason why people don't is because RL governments flat-out do not have the money. I believe the US gov't makes something like $2 trillion per year. That is not enough to finance a super-dreadnaught program and then build a few, even if you spent the whole thing on SDs, which of course is ridiculous. But this is NS. My nation is rapidly nearing the population of the RL world, with a damn good economy to boot. That's why we can afford supercaps. You cannot expect RL limitations on what is practical and affordable in a world where billions of citizens can live in a single country.

I didnt say SD's couldnt be built, I was SAYING there isnt a REASON to build them, other than 'OMG STEEL PENIS"
Since MOST SD's are owned by PMT nations, its a fairly simple matter to drop something heavy on it from orbit, or hit it with anti-supercap ships of some sort, or cripple it with aircraft. Or some combination of the above.
A certain famous Japanese admiral reportedly said he would rather the material used to build the Yamato had gone into a thousand fighter planes.

Its quite possible to put a Tsar Bomb on an ICBM, it would just need to be a BIG ICBM, impractically big, kinda like...a super dreadnaught. I might question the usefulness of such a device, since it would be a rather large target and would most likely be torn apart by the ultra-neato AMM systems of most PMT nations.

Of course, thats just MY philosophy, Im sure other people disagree, especially those with a hundred SD's.

I didnt say SD's couldnt be built, I was SAYING there isnt a REASON to build them, other than 'OMG STEEL PENIS"
Since MOST SD's are owned by PMT nations, its a fairly simple matter to drop something heavy on it from orbit, or hit it with anti-supercap ships of some sort, or cripple it with aircraft. Or some combination of the above.
A certain famous Japanese admiral reportedly said he would rather the material used to build the Yamato had gone into a thousand fighter planes.

Its quite possible to put a Tsar Bomb on an ICBM, it would just need to be a BIG ICBM, impractically big, kinda like...a super dreadnaught. I might question the usefulness of such a device, since it would be a rather large target and would most likely be torn apart by the ultra-neato AMM systems of most PMT nations.

Of course, thats just MY philosophy, Im sure other people disagree, especially those with a hundred SD's.

1. SDs are not essential but if you can afford them, there are reasons to have them. For one, they draw loads of fire from your other ships and are better equipped to deal with them. Having an SD will increase the survival rate of your carriers, cruisers, etc. Secondly, they provide the firepower to bombard the OMG IMPENETRABLE defenses of the NS world powers. They are, in essence, arsenal ships with really big guns and lots of armor.

2. This is a little nitpicky, but actually, as far as I know all SD-owning nations are MT. If we can make a quick survey of supercap-owning nations, I can think of Questers, myself, The Silver Sky, Generic Empire, probably Sarzonia, and anyone who's bought a Hood off the top of my head. All are MT.

3. It's not all that easy to take out supercaps/SDs, actually. RAMs and CIWS practically cover the ship, making it easy to intercept missiles and fight aircraft, as well as even blasting godrods out of the sky. And as for 'anti-supercap ships'...I can only imagine you mean subs, which are not that big of a problem. Most supercaps mount torpedo launchers for defense against subs, and besides, the supercap in question is probably with a fleet, complete with ASW helicopters and patrols that are likely to intercept any subs nearby.

I'm not too much of a fan of nukes myself. Small tactical ones are good, but I've known people who threw them like cruise missiles at cities.

3. It's not all that easy to take out supercaps/SDs, actually. RAMs and CIWS practically cover the ship, making it easy to intercept missiles and fight aircraft, as well as even blasting godrods out of the sky. And as for 'anti-supercap ships'...I can only imagine you mean subs, which are not that big of a problem. Most supercaps mount torpedo launchers for defense against subs, and besides, the supercap in question is probably with a fleet, complete with ASW helicopters and patrols that are likely to intercept any subs nearby.

Talk to Questers about how he drove my Hood out of commission.

So many missiles... O.O So many...


EDIT-
In any case, I agree that tac-nukes add flavor to RP. It's when people go "LOL MAD" it pisses me off. If people learned to escalate properly we wouldn't have any problems.

1. SDs are not essential but if you can afford them, there are reasons to have them. For one, they draw loads of fire from your other ships and are better equipped to deal with them. Having an SD will increase the survival rate of your carriers, cruisers, etc. Secondly, they provide the firepower to bombard the OMG IMPENETRABLE defenses of the NS world powers. They are, in essence, arsenal ships with really big guns and lots of armor.

2. This is a little nitpicky, but actually, as far as I know all SD-owning nations are MT. If we can make a quick survey of supercap-owning nations, I can think of Questers, myself, The Silver Sky, Generic Empire, probably Sarzonia, and anyone who's bought a Hood off the top of my head. All are MT.

3. It's not all that easy to take out supercaps/SDs, actually. RAMs and CIWS practically cover the ship, making it easy to intercept missiles and fight aircraft, as well as even blasting godrods out of the sky. And as for 'anti-supercap ships'...I can only imagine you mean subs, which are not that big of a problem. Most supercaps mount torpedo launchers for defense against subs, and besides, the supercap in question is probably with a fleet, complete with ASW helicopters and patrols that are likely to intercept any subs nearby.

There are other ways to draw fire. Decoy ships would be cheaper, and probably more effective. If you build one real carrier and a dozen 'carriers', those will most likely draw quite a good bit of fire, unless your opponent has enough time to check out the internal structure of those carriers. You could even throw in a bunch of outdated fighters taking off and landing, and it'd STILL be cheaper.
But, I admit, building hollow ships isnt NEARLY as cool as constructing a 500,000,000,000,000,000 ton super uber deth kroozer.

That depends on your definition of PMT. Some people who consider themselves MT, I consider PMT. Call me old fashioned, but even IF orbital drop ships are possible in this day and age, I dont see space-drops as feasable just yet.

I must be out of date again, I seem to remember a bunch of nations getting into a program of 'anti-supercap ships', smaller ships that carried some sort of specialized super-cap killing missiles or tacnukes or something. I didnt really pay much attention. It was sort of like missile spam, but with cruisers.

Talk to Questers about how he drove my Hood out of commission.

So many missiles... O.O So many...


EDIT-
In any case, I agree that tac-nukes add flavor to RP. It's when people go "LOL MAD" it pisses me off. If people learned to escalate properly we wouldn't have any problems.

Overreaction is the soul of Nationstates RP, don'cher'know.

2. This is a little nitpicky, but actually, as far as I know all SD-owning nations are MT. If we can make a quick survey of supercap-owning nations, I can think of Questers, myself, The Silver Sky, Generic Empire, probably Sarzonia, and anyone who's bought a Hood off the top of my head. All are MT.

I have a supercap, Farseer Class plus a Hood and another of my own SD classes

I understand the Nuke issue... but could someone please crack a fucking book!!! Nuclear Winter is a Myth. The impact that killed the dinosaurs cleared up in MONTHS and it killed 70%of the species on the planet---species that had no concept of building shelters and surviving ...for a few Months!!!

NO Nuclear Winter---

Oh and Chernobyl is in no way comparable to a Nuclear Weapon.

Dont call your OPINION, Science...how about that.

I have a supercap, Farseer Class plus a Hood and another of my own SD classes

Well there you go. :p By the way, do you happen to know if Sarz had his own supercap design?

I believe he did yes, it's on the sraftroom somewhere (the original I believe), i designed mine shortly after that but Prae beet me to it and so did Questers. ;)

But yeah, check the original NSdraftroom first- not there then scan through the new one.