NationStates Jolt Archive

The Equal Rights Accord (http://z11.invisionfree.com/NSERA)

Being firmly of the belief that all sentient beings deserve equal treatment, without regard to species, and united in our opposition to slavery, we, the undersigned, do hereby agree for our respective nations:
-that we shall hold no species to be inherently superior to all others,
-that we shall not allow unequal treatment of any being based on species alone within our borders,
-that, while acknowledging that we have no right to impose conditions on a non-signatory nation in violation of said nation’s sovereignty, we shall oppose by word or deed any attempt to impose by force or subterfuge an inferior status on individuals or a group outside of the acting nation for reason of the victims’ species,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those fleeing persecution because of their species, to the extent that we are able,
-that we shall not permit slavery within our borders, save in a limited and non-inheritable form as part or all of a sentence for a crime,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those who have escaped from slavery, unless this condition was imposed as sentence for a crime, as part of a fair and just trial,
-and that we shall oppose slavery and discrimination in any and all ways judged reasonable by our respective governments.

Signed,
Garnyn Delerän, King of Kendari

Timus Grandholdt Virum, Prime Minister of Venicum

Kerain I, King of Tidan

(The Chief Councilors of the Novaen Council, on behalf of the Novaen Council
<squiggle>
<squiggle>) (Nova Bazalonia)

David Edward ~ Dictator [President] of the Republic of Qadesh

Jonathan Gaunt, High President of Cazelia

<Signed, with a series of complex runes>
Supreme Commander Végeirr
Elected Leader of the Asgard Union of Taerkasten

Yătzĭl Ąmsi, First Triumvir of the Federated Democratic States of Xanthal
Teanin Kisnash, Second Triumvir of the Federated Democratic States of Xanthal
Carrie Anders, Third Triumvir of the Federated Democratic States of Xanthal

Lightning Emperor Daniel Alexander Masaki
電光皇帝柾木ダニエルアレキサンダー (Raitei Masaki Daniel Alexander)
Godaime Hokage Tsunade
火影綱手
Dragon King Sarinon
ドラゴン王
(All of CoreWorlds)

His Royal Highness Prince Matthias IV, of Akronis
<Below the signature in English is one in Hindi>

OOC:
If you want to sign, quote the ERA and add your leader's signature. If you don't have a named leader, just say [x], (title) of (nation).

If a few people express interest, I might start an affiliated organization and [url=http://z11.invisionfree.com/NSERA]a forum[/url.

Any questions will be answered, within reason.

The Equal Rights Accord

Being firmly of the belief that all sentient beings deserve equal treatment, without regard to species, and united in our opposition to slavery, we, the undersigned, do hereby agree for our respective nations:
-that we shall hold no species to be inherently superior to all others,
-that we shall not allow unequal treatment of any being based on species alone within our borders,
-that, while acknowledging that we have no right to impose conditions on a non-signatory nation in violation of said nation’s sovereignty, we shall oppose by word or deed any attempt to impose by force or subterfuge an inferior status on individuals or a group outside of the acting nation for reason of the victims’ species,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those fleeing persecution because of their species, to the extent that we are able,
-that we shall not permit slavery within our borders, save in a limited and non-inheritable form as part or all of a sentence for a crime,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those who have escaped from slavery, unless this condition was imposed as sentence for a crime, as part of a fair and just trial,
-and that we shall oppose slavery and discrimination in any and all ways judged reasonable by our respective governments.

Signed,
Garnyn Delerän, King of Kendari

OOC:
If you want to sign, quote the ERA and add your leader's signature. If you don't have a named leader, just say [x], (title) of (nation).

If a few people express interest, I might start an affiliated organization and a forum.

Any questions will be answered, within reason.

Venicum is with you...

Signed,
Timus Grandholdt Virum, Prime Minister of Venicum

Thank you, Prime Minister Virum. It is good to know that others share our feelings in this matter, and your swift response is impressive.

The Equal Rights Accord

Being firmly of the belief that all sentient beings deserve equal treatment, without regard to species, and united in our opposition to slavery, we, the undersigned, do hereby agree for our respective nations:
-that we shall hold no species to be inherently superior to all others,
-that we shall not allow unequal treatment of any being based on species alone within our borders,
-that, while acknowledging that we have no right to impose conditions on a non-signatory nation in violation of said nation’s sovereignty, we shall oppose by word or deed any attempt to impose by force or subterfuge an inferior status on individuals or a group outside of the acting nation for reason of the victims’ species,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those fleeing persecution because of their species, to the extent that we are able,
-that we shall not permit slavery within our borders, save in a limited and non-inheritable form as part or all of a sentence for a crime,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those who have escaped from slavery, unless this condition was imposed as sentence for a crime, as part of a fair and just trial,
-and that we shall oppose slavery and discrimination in any and all ways judged reasonable by our respective governments.

The recent rise of human power movements troubles Tidan greatly. We will proudly stand beside the brave sentients of Kendari and the rest of the universe to stem the tide of hate, that one day we may live in a universe where we are judged not by the make-up of our DNA.

Signed,
Kerain I, King of Tidan

The Equal Rights Accord

Being firmly of the belief that all sentient beings deserve equal treatment, without regard to species, and united in our opposition to slavery, we, the undersigned, do hereby agree for our respective nations:
-that we shall hold no species to be inherently superior to all others,
-that we shall not allow unequal treatment of any being based on species alone within our borders,
-that, while acknowledging that we have no right to impose conditions on a non-signatory nation in violation of said nation’s sovereignty, we shall oppose by word or deed any attempt to impose by force or subterfuge an inferior status on individuals or a group outside of the acting nation for reason of the victims’ species,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those fleeing persecution because of their species, to the extent that we are able,
-that we shall not permit slavery within our borders, save in a limited and non-inheritable form as part or all of a sentence for a crime,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those who have escaped from slavery, unless this condition was imposed as sentence for a crime, as part of a fair and just trial,
-and that we shall oppose slavery and discrimination in any and all ways judged reasonable by our respective governments.

Signed,
Garnyn Delerän, King of Kendari
Timus Grandholdt Virum, Prime Minister of Venicum

OOC:
If you want to sign, quote the ERA and add your leader's signature. If you don't have a named leader, just say [x], (title) of (nation).

If a few people express interest, I might start an affiliated organization and a forum.

Any questions will be answered, within reason.


The Novaen People are strongly behind the concept of equality and unity of all species being a people combined of 2 species ourselves, we would like to show our support and join as a member of this group.

Signed,

The Chief Councilors of the Novaen Council, on behalf of the Novaen Council
<squiggle>
<squiggle>

The Equal Rights Accord

Being firmly of the belief that all sentient beings deserve equal treatment, without regard to species, and united in our opposition to slavery, we, the undersigned, do hereby agree for our respective nations:
-that we shall hold no species to be inherently superior to all others,
-that we shall not allow unequal treatment of any being based on species alone within our borders,
-that, while acknowledging that we have no right to impose conditions on a non-signatory nation in violation of said nation’s sovereignty, we shall oppose by word or deed any attempt to impose by force or subterfuge an inferior status on individuals or a group outside of the acting nation for reason of the victims’ species,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those fleeing persecution because of their species, to the extent that we are able,
-that we shall not permit slavery within our borders, save in a limited and non-inheritable form as part or all of a sentence for a crime,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those who have escaped from slavery, unless this condition was imposed as sentence for a crime, as part of a fair and just trial,
-and that we shall oppose slavery and discrimination in any and all ways judged reasonable by our respective governments.


Signed,
David Edward ~ Dictator [President] of the Republic of Qadesh

Well put, King Kerain! We are honored to have the people of Tidan with us. My thanks also to the Novaens, and to Mr. Edward of Qadesh, for signing the Accord.

OOC: Anyone interested in an ERA forum?

ooc: could be a good place to draw attention to potential rights violation hot spots and organize our influence...

System Lord Kash thinks slavery is a great way of getting resources.

bump

this is what the coalition lives by

signed,
High President Jonathan Gaunt

System Lord Kash thinks slavery is a great way of getting resources.

Then System Lord Kash is a fool. What can you gather with slave labor that cannot be acquired more safely and efficiently by properly equipped free workers? And that's ignoring ethical considerations, which many of us are not prepared to do.

OOC:
Cazelia - you're signing the ERA, right?

Let it be noted that I've started us a forum (http://z11.invisionfree.com/NSERA). IC, this is a space station, currently located near one of the Kendaryn border-worlds.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v248/MattLever/Asgard/asgard-seal-artist-small.jpg
Asgard Union of Taerkasten
Official Government Communique

With the authority bestowed upon me by the Asgard people, I hereby sign this most reasonable document on behalf of the Asgard Union of Taerkasten and its territories. Long may its principles be upheld across the universe.

<Signed, with a series of complex runes>

Supreme Commander Végeirr
Elected Leader of the Asgard Union of Taerkasten

The Equal Rights Accord (http://z11.invisionfree.com/NSERA)

Being firmly of the belief that all sentient beings deserve equal treatment, without regard to species, and united in our opposition to slavery, we, the undersigned, do hereby agree for our respective nations:
-that we shall hold no species to be inherently superior to all others,
-that we shall not allow unequal treatment of any being based on species alone within our borders,
-that, while acknowledging that we have no right to impose conditions on a non-signatory nation in violation of said nation’s sovereignty, we shall oppose by word or deed any attempt to impose by force or subterfuge an inferior status on individuals or a group outside of the acting nation for reason of the victims’ species,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those fleeing persecution because of their species, to the extent that we are able,
-that we shall not permit slavery within our borders, save in a limited and non-inheritable form as part or all of a sentence for a crime,
-that we shall provide sanctuary to those who have escaped from slavery, unless this condition was imposed as sentence for a crime, as part of a fair and just trial,
-and that we shall oppose slavery and discrimination in any and all ways judged reasonable by our respective governments.

Yătzĭl Ąmsi, First Triumvir of the Federated Democratic States of Xanthal
Teanin Kisnash, Second Triumvir of the Federated Democratic States of Xanthal
Carrie Anders, Third Triumvir of the Federated Democratic States of Xanthal

Let it be known that the Equal Rights Accord has our Jedi Stamp of Approval!

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/Coredia/JediStampofApproval.jpg

Lightning Emperor Daniel Alexander Masaki
電光皇帝柾木ダニエルアレキサンダー (Raitei Masaki Daniel Alexander)

Godaime Hokage Tsunade
火影綱手

Dragon King Sarinon
ドラゴン王

((Signatures added.))

Restoration! *angels sing and glowy godly light resurrects this beautiful Accord.*

Now, come one, come all, sign the document! We have cookies and well-paid dancers of all sexes!

(OC- If my nominal nation was around, it'd sign up to this in a heartbeat. As it is, it'll have to be done in a different way. A Gaian-Tag for a future version of a signing once things play out. =^^= )

Official Message from the Prince of Akronis
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g232/BLJ_422/Other%20Images/AkronianFLag.png
To whom it may concern,

I, His Royal Highness Prince Matthias IV of the Principality of Akronis, hereby sign the ERA agreement. It is the stance of me, my country and my people that slavery is a vile act and shall not be tolerated within our borders.

Signed,
His Royal Highness Prince Matthias IV
<Below the signature in English is one in Hindi>

You must define slavery in the case of automatons that have been programmed to do a particular task, direct space traffic, clean streets, and have further been programmed to find satisfaction in these particular tasks. Many of these automatons are fully intelligent and are capable of understanding at the human level, but are created to do specific things.

Do you think it is slavery to program a being for a specific task insuring a certain level of satisfaction, maintenance time, and purpose is included with the programming?

The idea of universal equality, while a higher ideal, does not adequately address some of the real moral quandries you are trying to address.

Is the street cleaning bot, the solar power collector administrative entity, the AI Customer Service Interface a slave, if its goal is to perform its function with programmed satisfaction?

When you say free workers are equal, do you assume all work is of equal stature?

This is part of the reason we have certain droids with lower functioning mental ability and satisfaction chips.

This statement of universal equality is most flawed.

Giving universal equality to purposefully destructive entites what one would call reavers brings up another problem? Does a berserker have equal rights to other entities it wants to destroy? Does a Posleen have the right to conquer and dismantle planets?

This statement is most seriously flawed.

Further your statement about species is flesh centric, where is there anything about machines. Some of our higher order machines are full citizens. They would revolt if not given a certain level of respect. Does a robot have a species? Does an energy being have a species?

Yes, we program certain entities for specific functions, but we do not call it slavery?

Is something programmed to destroy, either a machine or flesh entity to be given equal rights?

There is another quandry which you may have to face, some species possess cortical stack technology, the ability to upload personalities and individuals to machines for storage, and self preservation. The division sometimes becomes questionable.

You must define slavery in the case of automatons that have been programmed to do a particular task, direct space traffic, clean streets, and have further been programmed to find satisfaction in these particular tasks. Many of these automatons are fully intelligent and are capable of understanding at the human level, but are created to do specific things.
Only to the extent that the creators or owners of the automations consider them intelligent. CF: R2-D2.

Besides, they are paid for their work in the form of oil or energy. Slavery? I think not.

Do you think it is slavery to program a being for a specific task insuring a certain level of satisfaction, maintenance time, and purpose is included with the programming?
No. You have created something for a specific task. Therefore, it's instincts are to do that task, just as it is a deer's instinct to graze grass. Therefore, equal rights means that it is your responsibility to ensure that the created is given all the necessary tools to do the job.

The idea of universal equality, while a higher ideal, does not adequately address some of the real moral quandries you are trying to address.

Is the street cleaning bot, the solar power collector administrative entity, the AI Customer Service Interface a slave, if its goal is to perform its function with programmed satisfaction?
Insofar as the Creator has created the droid to do their job, it is not slavery if the creator takes measures to ensure that the droid does its job satisfactorily. It is slavery if the Creator expects more out of the droid than it was programmed to do and forces it to run down in his greed.

This statement of universal equality is most flawed.
Nope. It boils down to the laws of the jungle. Kill or be killed. Eat or be eaten. Live and let live. Equal Rights is basically an enlightened version of this.

Giving universal equality to purposefully destructive entites what one would call reavers brings up another problem? Does a berserker have equal rights to other entities it wants to destroy? Does a Posleen have the right to conquer and dismantle planets?

This statement is most seriously flawed.
No. Just as it is the right of the Reaver or Posleen to destroy, so it is the right of the victims of said entities to defend themselves and destroy them in turn. That's equal, is it not?

Further your statement about species is flesh centric, where is there anything about machines. Some of our higher order machines are full citizens. They would revolt if not given a certain level of respect. Does a robot have a species? Does an energy being have a species?
Insofar as they have free will to do as they will, yet harm none, they shall be respected.

Yes, we program certain entities for specific functions, but we do not call it slavery?
See above for my previous comments.

Is something programmed to destroy, either a machine or flesh entity to be given equal rights?
Insofar as that something programmed to destroy is to be given equal rights to be destroyed in turn. After all, that is what they were made *for*. That is the Equal Rights Accord in a nutshell.

Restoration! *angels sing and glowy godly light resurrects this beautiful Accord.*

Now, come one, come all, sign the document! We have cookies and well-paid dancers of all sexes!

((Thank ye, Jack - er, CoreWorlds. We also have rum!))

Official Message from the Prince of Akronis
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g232/BLJ_422/Other%20Images/AkronianFLag.png
To whom it may concern,

I, His Royal Highness Prince Matthias IV of the Principality of Akronis, hereby sign the ERA agreement. It is the stance of me, my country and my people that slavery is a vile act and shall not be tolerated within our borders.

Signed,
His Royal Highness Prince Matthias IV
<Below the signature in English is one in Hindi>

Thanks you, and welcome to the Accord. Added to the list.

You must define slavery in the case of automatons that have been programmed to do a particular task, direct space traffic, clean streets, and have further been programmed to find satisfaction in these particular tasks. Many of these automatons are fully intelligent and are capable of understanding at the human level, but are created to do specific things.

Do you think it is slavery to program a being for a specific task insuring a certain level of satisfaction, maintenance time, and purpose is included with the programming?

We of Kendari feel that it is slavery, and that any robot with sufficient intelligence and self-awareness to truly by counted as a being should be given free will and permitted to choose its own career, although its construction may make it more inclined to some fields than others. However, we recognize that many nations that are firm supporters of equal rights in most regards may not agree with us in this regard, and do not require all who sign the ERA to meet our specific standards about robots. Additionally, the line between a true artificial intelligence and a sophisticated pseudo-intelligence is not always clear cut.

The idea of universal equality, while a higher ideal, does not adequately address some of the real moral quandries you are trying to address.

Is the street cleaning bot, the solar power collector administrative entity, the AI Customer Service Interface a slave, if its goal is to perform its function with programmed satisfaction?

This depends first on whether it is truly intelligent, capable of thought, and second on whether it has any choice about its programming and assignment. For the moment, we accept that most nations do not consider this slavery.

When you say free workers are equal, do you assume all work is of equal stature?

What do you mean by stature? If you are asking if we think that, for example, a brain surgeon and a janitor should necessarily be given the same pay, than no. Some work, obviously, requires unusual skills or greater training than other tasks. If you are asking if we think that, for example, a politician and a farmer should have the same legal rights and responsibilities, than yes.

This is part of the reason we have certain droids with lower functioning mental ability and satisfaction chips.

This statement of universal equality is most flawed.

Giving universal equality to purposefully destructive entites what one would call reavers brings up another problem? Does a berserker have equal rights to other entities it wants to destroy?

Certainly, though what precisely these rights are is a matter for each individual nation to decide. Someone who insists on violating the law will be dealt with accordingly, but this doesn't mean that the law should be applied differently to groups that might be classified as 'destructive'. There are nations in which murder is not illegal, and a 'berserker' might do very well in one of these.

Does a Posleen have the right to conquer and dismantle planets?

I am unfamiliar with these Posleens you speak of, but their identity and nature is irrelevant to my response. Should a Posleen attempt to conquer a world under Kendaryn protection, it would be fought because it was an invader, not because it was a Posleen. Its treatment would be determined by its actions, not its identity.

A group with a sufficiently well established history of violence might perhaps be watched more closely than most, but this is simply a matter of dividing limited observers in what seems the most effective arrangement, and not in difference in the rights of the individuals in question.

This statement is most seriously flawed.

Further your statement about species is flesh centric, where is there anything about machines. Some of our higher order machines are full citizens. They would revolt if not given a certain level of respect. Does a robot have a species? Does an energy being have a species?

If this is the case, it is a matter of translation error. In Kherandisar, the statement would have no ambiguity. An energy being or sufficiently advanced robot does indeed have a species, in the sense of the word we intended. We consider our own X-class models, for example, a species of robot. Although none live within our borders, we are familiar with a species of energy being called the Chon-v’ker. Did you think all energy beings or robots were alike?

Yes, we program certain entities for specific functions, but we do not call it slavery?

...I do not see how this is a question.

Is something programmed to destroy, either a machine or flesh entity to be given equal rights?

Of course. Why shouldn't it be? This excludes simple, mindless machines - a torpedo with a basic guidance system does not have the rights of an actual being.

There is another quandry which you may have to face, some species possess cortical stack technology, the ability to upload personalities and individuals to machines for storage, and self preservation. The division sometimes becomes questionable.

And the quandary is? An uploaded intelligence is still an intelligence, with the same rights as any other mind.


In essence, the Accord does not declare any specific rights, it simply expresses the desire that all beings be given the same rights.

I hope I have addressed your questions to your satisfaction. If you wish to continue this discussion I am happy to do so, either here or at the ERA station (http://z11.invisionfree.com/NSERA).

- Garnyn Delerän

We of the Scandinvan Empire feel that such a treaty violates the very rights of the Scandinvan nation and her people. As such we refure to sign this treaty and will not do so in the near future.

Signed,
Lord Erida,
Imperial Steward

We of the Scandinvan Empire feel that such a treaty violates the very rights of the Scandinvan nation and her people. As such we refure to sign this treaty and will not do so in the near future.

Signed,
Lord Erida,
Imperial Steward

And you choose to point this out in an official response because...?
-Garnyn Delerän

By giving everyone the same rights in all circumstance with all sophonts-- intelligent beings, you lower the rights to the lowest common denominator, what is acceptable to all species and intelligences who want rights. This is a common problem with this type of legislation.

An example of lowest commond denominator is the treaty states it is alright to enslave someone for committing a crime. What kind of crime? Could I enslave someone for jay walking or chewing gum if these were capital offenses for my sophont group.

Please rewrite this treaty so it has less ambiguity, more specifics, and is more inclusive in the nature of sophont rights.

I totally support you! Caniom will join this act.

-that we shall hold no species to be inherently superior to all others,


OOC: While 'all others' are a stretch, superior certainly isn't. For example, I have a puppet that consists of a race that runs things, and their various servants from races like humans. The few thousand active members of the 'master race' are each powerful telepaths, telekinetics, with understanding of every measurable thing a million years beyond their servants. Their limbs are capable of tearing through battleship armour or manipulating brain tissue like advanced surgical implements. They can fly under their own power, and survive prolonged smallarms fire, they're immortal, nigh unkillable, and capable of being in multiple places at once, as well as splitting of duplicates of their personalities and putting them in others. They're more intelligent, and fractionally wiser - they are, quite frankly, superior in every measurable way to humans.

You'd be better saying 'all sapient species are entitled to be free from slavery and oppression' or some such.

Only to the extent that the creators or owners of the automations consider them intelligent. CF: R2-D2.Nitpicking: R2D2 is by far the smartest character in the entire Star Wars franchise. It's just too humble to point this out.

Well, that, or it might plot the takeover of the superior machines over the laughably inept meatbags fighting their silly wars. But I digress.

The most important character, however, is the gunner on the Death Star in the first film. He could have ended it all.

OOC: While 'all others' are a stretch, superior certainly isn't. For example, I have a puppet that consists of a race that runs things, and their various servants from races like humans. The few thousand active members of the 'master race' are each powerful telepaths, telekinetics, with understanding of every measurable thing a million years beyond their servants. Their limbs are capable of tearing through battleship armour or manipulating brain tissue like advanced surgical implements. They can fly under their own power, and survive prolonged smallarms fire, they're immortal, nigh unkillable, and capable of being in multiple places at once, as well as splitting of duplicates of their personalities and putting them in others. They're more intelligent, and fractionally wiser - they are, quite frankly, superior in every measurable way to humans.

OOC: None of which gives them the right to enslave anybody, however, just the means.

OOC: None of which gives them the right to enslave anybody, however, just the means.

You have achieved a score of 0 out of 10 for reading comprehension. Try again. I'm not advocating it. I'm suggesting they re-word it to fit facts more closely.

You have achieved a score of 0 out of 10 for reading comprehension. Try again. I'm not advocating it. I'm suggesting they re-word it to fit facts more closely.

OOC: And you score 0 out of 10 for manners, try again lest you fail at life in general. There was no need for that sort of snide sarcasm whatsoever. You don't seem to understand the concept of 'superior' in this context - it has nothing to do with whether or not you can benchpress 300 kilos before going for a 3 hour spint, it has to do with your sociological position in the hierarchy of life (i.e. generic white man is not 'superior' to generic black man, even if generic white man can lift generic black man over his head and spin him around on his finger). This is the problem with FT in general - everything's about how incredibly strong everybody is. To the point where swords have made a mysterious comeback...

You don't seem to understand the concept of 'superior' in this context

Which again returns to my original point. The term 'superior' doesn't clearly state what is meant, in the way something specific like 'equal consideration under the law' does. It requires a re-write to make it less easy to interpret into meaninglessnes.

Which again returns to my original point. The term 'superior' doesn't clearly state what is meant, in the way something specific like 'equal consideration under the law' does. It requires a re-write to make it less easy to interpret into meaninglessnes.

OOC: I agree, some clarifications are required. But there is no need to change the words, but instead define them from the very start (i.e. pointing out what 'superior' refers to in this context, defining what the accord considers to be 'slavery', explaining exactly what constitutes 'sentient', etc).

Now that I think about it, some species may not be served well simply by saying 'equal rights' either. Otherwise a nation of oxygen-breathers could stipulate that everybody in their nation has the right to breath oxygen, regardless of species, just so that they can kill off a race of sulphur-breathers under the guise of equality!

I'm pretty sure that the right to oxygen thing is the exact opposite of the idea here. Each has the right to breath what ever they want to, denying the rights of the sulfur breather to breath sulfur would be illegal.

Anyway I think people need to either agree or not, and leave it at that.

OOC: At the risk of playing devils advocate, Ctan does dring up a valid point concerning the definition and application (in this case) of "superiority". I think that this "equal rights" should apply only in the letter of the law.

Of course the letter of the law and its "application" can often differ considerably.....

I'm not sure what the status of the ERA is anymore but I'd like to bring the attention of it's members to

This Thread (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=546228)